Depression, the secret we share | Andrew Solomon

Translator: Samra Cebiric Reviewer: Mirza Celikovic

"I felt a Funeral, in my Brain,

"Osjetih pogreb, u svom mozgu,

and Mourners to and fro

A Žalobnici uzvrzmani

kept treading -- treading -- till [it seemed]

Gaze - i gaze - sve dok ne bi

Ko da moj um se probi vani

that Sense was breaking through --

And when they all were seated,

A kad su sjeli, svi,

a Service, like a Drum --

Obred je poput bubnja

kept beating -- beating -- till I [thought]

stao da bije - i bije sve dok ne pomislih

Da moja pamet obamrije

my Mind was going numb --

And then I heard them lift a Box and creak across my Soul

A kada čuh da kovčeg dižu

I kroz dušu mi škripe one

with those same Boots of Lead, again,

Iste olovne čizme, opet,

then Space -- began to toll,

Prostori tada - stade da zvone,

As [all] the Heavens were a Bell, and Being, [but] an Ear,

Ko da su sva nebesa - zvono

A biće, samo uvo samo,

and I, and Silence, some strange Race,

Tišina, i ja, čudno pleme

wrecked, solitary, here --

Ovdje, brodolomno i samo

[And] then a Plank in Reason, broke,

Tad u Razumu puče Daska

and I fell down and down --

I padala sam niže, niže,

and hit a World, at every plunge,

Po jedan svijet zgodih svakim

and Finished knowing -- then --"

Uronom – i kraj znanja stiže".

We know depression through metaphors.

Poznajemo depresiju kroz metafore

Emily Dickinson was able to convey it in language,

Emily Dickinson prenijela ju je jezikom,

Goya in an image.

Goya u slici.

Half the purpose of art is to describe such iconic states.

Dio svrhe umjetnosti

je da opiše takva ikonska stanja.

As for me, I had always thought myself tough,

Sebe sam uvijek smatrao jakim,

one of the people who could survive

jedan od onih koji bi mogli preživjeti

if I'd been sent to a concentration camp.

u koncentracionom logoru.

In 1991, I had a series of losses.

Godine 1991 doživio sam nekoliko gubitaka

My mother died,

Majka mi je umrla,

a relationship I'd been in ended,

veza mi je pukla,

I moved back to the United States from some years abroad,

vratio sam se nazad u SAD

nakon nekoliko godina u inostranstvu,

and I got through all of those experiences intact.

i izašao sam čitav iz svih tih iskustava.

But in 1994, three years later,

Ali 1994, tri godine poslije,

I found myself losing interest in almost everything.

počeo sam gubiti interest za skoro sve.

Nisam ništa želio raditi

I didn't want to do any of the things I had previously wanted to do,

što sam prije želio,

and I didn't know why.

i nisam znao zašto.

The opposite of depression is not happiness, but vitality.

Suprotno od depresije

nije sreća, nego životna snaga,

i životna snaga je ono

And it was vitality

that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.

što se činilo da curi iz mene u tom trenutku.

Everything there was to do seemed like too much work.

Sve što je trebalo uraditi

se činilo kao previše posla.

I would come home

Došao bih kući

and I would see the red light flashing on my answering machine,

i vidio bih crveno svjetlo kako bljeska na telefonskoj sekretarici

and instead of being thrilled to hear from my friends,

i umjesto da budem oduševljen da čujem prijatelje,

I would think,

pomislii bih,

"What a lot of people that is to have to call back."

"Koliko puno ljudi moram nazvati."

Or I would decide I should have lunch,

Ili bih odlučio da jeden,

and then I would think, but I'd have to get the food out

i onda bih pomislio, ali moram izvaditi hranu

and put it on a plate

i staviti je na tanjir

and cut it up and chew it and swallow it,

i izrezati, žvakati, progutati,

and it felt to me like the Stations of the Cross.

i činilo mi se kao Križni put.

And one of the things that often gets lost in discussions of depression

Jedna od onih stvari koja se često ispusti

u raspravi o depresiji

is that you know it's ridiculous.

je da znamo da je smiješno.

You know it's ridiculous while you're experiencing it.

Znamo da je smiješno dok prolazimo kroz to iskustvo.

You know that most people manage

Znamo da većina ljudi uspijeva

to listen to their messages and eat lunch

da sasluša poruke i jede

and organize themselves to take a shower

i tušira se

and go out the front door

i izađe na prednja vrata

and that it's not a big deal,

i to nije velika stvar,

and yet you are nonetheless in its grip

ali smo opet pod njenom kontrolom

and you are unable to figure out any way around it.

ali ne možemo naći način da je izbjegnemo.

And so I began to feel myself doing less

I tako sam osjećao da manje radim

and thinking less

manje mislim

and feeling less.

i manje osjećam.

It was a kind of nullity.

Bila je to vrsta ništavnosti.

And then the anxiety set in.

A onda je nastupila anksioznost.

If you told me that I'd have to be depressed for the next month,

Ako mi kažete da moram

biti depresivan sljedeći mjesec,

I would say, "As long I know it'll be over in November, I can do it."

rekao bih, "Samo ako bude gotovo u novembru, onda mogu."

But if you said to me,

Ali ako mi kažete,

"You have to have acute anxiety for the next month,"

"Moraš imati akutnu aksioznost sljedeći mjesec,"

radije bih se ubio neko prošao kroz to.

I would rather slit my wrist than go through it.

It was the feeling all the time

To je osjećaj svo vrijeme

like that feeling you have if you're walking

kao da hodate

and you slip or trip and the ground is rushing up at you,

i okliznete se ili spotaknete se

i zemlja juri prema vama,

but instead of lasting half a second, the way that does,

ali umjesto da traje pola sekunde, kao obično,

it lasted for six months.

traje 6 mjeseci.

It's a sensation of being afraid all the time

To je osjećaj stalnog straha

but not even knowing what it is that you're afraid of.

ali ne znajući čega se bojimo.

And it was at that point that I began to think

I u tom trenutku sam počeo misliti

that it was just too painful to be alive,

da je živjeti prebolno,

and that the only reason not to kill oneself

i da jedini razlog da neko ne počini samoubistvo

was so as not to hurt other people.

jeste da ne povrijedi druge ljude.

And finally one day, I woke up

Najzad, jednog dana sam se probudio

and I thought perhaps I'd had a stroke,

i pomislio da sam možda imao moždani udar,

because I lay in bed completely frozen,

jer sam ležao u krevetu potpuno zamrznut,

looking at the telephone, thinking,

gledajući u telefon, pomislio sam,

"Something is wrong and I should call for help,"

"Nešto nije uredu, trebam pomoć,"

and I couldn't reach out my arm

i nisam mogao ispružiti ruku

and pick up the phone and dial.

da podignem slušalicu i okrenem broj.

And finally, after four full hours of my lying and staring at it,

Na poslijetku, nakon puna četiri sata ležanja i zurenja,

the phone rang,

telefon je zazvonio,

and somehow I managed to pick it up,

i nekako sam uspio da se javim.

and it was my father, and I said,

To je bio moj otac,

rekao sam, "U ozbiljnoj sam nevoji.

"I'm in serious trouble. We need to do something."

Moramo poduzeti nešto."

The next day I started with the medications and the therapy.

Naredni dan počeo sam sa ljekovima

i terapijom.

And I also started reckoning with this terrible question:

Također sam počeo misliti

o ovim užasnim pitanjem:

If I'm not the tough person

Ako nisam snažna osoba

who could have made it through a concentration camp,

koja bi mogla preživjeti u koncentracionom logoru,

then who am I?

ko sam onda ja?

And if I have to take medication,

Ako moram uzimati ljekove,

is that medication making me more fully myself,

da li sam ono što jesam zbog tog lijeka

or is it making me someone else?

ili neko drugi?

And how do I feel about it if it's making me someone else?

I kako se osjećam zbog toga

što postajem neko drugi?

Imao sam dvije prednosti u toj borbi.

I had two advantages as I went into the fight.

The first is that I knew that, objectively speaking,

Prvo je što sam znao, objektivno govoreći,

I had a nice life,

da imam lijep život,

and that if I could only get well,

i ako bih samo ozdravio,

there was something at the other end that was worth living for.

postoji nešto s druge strane

zbog čega vrijedi živjeti.

And the other was that I had access to good treatment.

Drugo je da sam imao pristup dobrom liječenju.

But I nonetheless emerged and relapsed,

Ali svejedno stanje se poboljšavalo pa pogoršavalo,

and emerged and relapsed,

i poboljšavalo pa pogoršavalo

and emerged and relapsed,

i poboljšavalo pa pogoršavalo,

and finally understood

i konačno sam shvatio

I would have to be on medication and in therapy forever.

da ću biti na lijekovima

i terapijama zauvijek.

And I thought,

Pomislio sam, "Da li je ovo hemijski problem

"But is it a chemical problem or a psychological problem?

ili psihološki?

And does it need a chemical cure or a philosophical cure?"

I da li zahtijeva hemijski ili filozofski lijek?"

And I couldn't figure out which it was.

Nisam mogao da shvatim koje.

And then I understood that actually,

I onda sam shvatio da zapravo,

we aren't advanced enough in either area for it to explain things fully.

nismo napredovali dovoljno ni u jednom području

da bismo objasnili stvari u potpunosti.

The chemical cure and the psychological cure

I hemijski i psihološki lijek

both have a role to play,

imaju svoju ulogu,

and I also figured out that depression was something

također sam shvatio da je depresija nešto

duboko upleteno u nama

that was braided so deep into us

that there was no separating it from our character and personality.

da se ne može otpetljati

iz našeg karaktera i ličnosti.

I want to say that the treatments we have for depression are appalling.

Želim reći da su liječenja koja imamo

za depresiju užasna.

Nisu baš uspješna.

They're not very effective.

They're extremely costly.

Veoma su skupa.

They come with innumerable side effects.

Imaju bezbroj posljedica.

They're a disaster.

To je katastrofa.

Ali ja sam zahvalan što živim sada

But I am so grateful that I live now and not 50 years ago,

a ne prije 50 godina,

when there would have been almost nothing to be done.

kada se skoro ništa

nije moglo uraditi.

I hope that 50 years hence,

Otuda se nadam da za 50 godina

people will hear about my treatments

ljudi će čuti za moje liječenje

i da će biti zaprepašteni da je neko mogao izdržati

and be appalled that anyone endured such primitive science.

tako primitivnu nauku.

Depression is the flaw in love.

Depresija je mana u ljubavi.

If you were married to someone and thought,

Ako ste vjenčani za nekoga i pomislite,

"Well, if my wife dies, I'll find another one,"

"Pa, ako moja žena umre, naći ću neku drugu,"

it wouldn't be love as we know it.

to ne bi bila ljubav kakvu poznajemo.

There's no such thing as love without the anticipation of loss,

Ne postoji ljubav

bez iščekivanja gubitka,

and that specter of despair can be the engine of intimacy.

i taj predosjećaj očaja

može biti motor prisnosti.

There are three things people tend to confuse:

Postoje tri stvari koje ljudi brkaju:

depression, grief and sadness.

depresija, žalost, i tuga.

Grief is explicitly reactive.

Žalost je izrazito reaktivna.

If you have a loss and you feel incredibly unhappy,

Ako ste nekoga izgubli, i osjećate se nevjerovatno nesretni,

and then, six months later,

i 6 mjeseci kasnije,

you are still deeply sad, but you're functioning a little better,

i dalje ste jako tužni, ali sada malo bolje funkcionišete,

to je vjerovatno žalost,

it's probably grief,

and it will probably ultimately resolve itself in some measure.

i na koncu će se vjerovatno riješiti

do određene mjere.

If you experience a catastrophic loss,

Ako doživite katastrofalan gubitak,

and you feel terrible,

i osjećate se strašno,

and six months later you can barely function at all,

i šest mjeseci poslije jedva možete funkcionisati,

then it's probably a depression that was triggered

onda je vjerovatno depresija izazvana

katastrofalnim okolnostima.

by the catastrophic circumstances.

The trajectory tells us a great deal.

Putanja nam govori mnogo toga.

People think of depression as being just sadness.

Ljudi misle da je depresija samo tuga.

It's much, much too much sadness,

To je mnogo, mnogo, previše tuge,

much too much grief

mnogo, previše žalosti

at far too slight a cause.

zbog previše nevažnog uzroka.

As I set out to understand depression,

Kada sam krenuo da shvatim depresiju,

and to interview people who had experienced it,

i da ispitujem ljude koji su je iskusili,

I found that there were people who seemed, on the surface,

otkrio sam da ima ljudi koji se čine

na površini kao da imaju

to have what sounded like relatively mild depression

relativno blagu depresiju

koja ih je svejedno potpuno onesposobila.

who were nonetheless utterly disabled by it.

And there were other people who had what sounded

A postoje drugi ljudi koji

as they described it like terribly severe depression

su opisali

da imaju užasno tešku depresiju

who nonetheless had good lives

koji su svjedno vodili dobre živote u intervalima

in the interstices between their depressive episodes.

između njihovih depresivnih epizoda.

And I set out to find out what it is that causes some people

I krenuo sam da istražim šta je to

što uzrokuje neke ljude

to be more resilient than other people.

da budu više otporni nego drugi ljudi.

What are the mechanisms that allow people to survive?

Koji su to mehanizmi

koji omogućavaju ljudima da prežive?

And I went out and I interviewed person after person

Krenuo sam i intervjuisao ljude

who was suffering with depression.

koji su patili od depresije.

One of the first people I interviewed

Jedan od prvih koje sam intervjuisao

je opisao depresiju

described depression as a slower way of being dead,

kao sporiji način od mrtvog stanja,

and that was a good thing for me to hear early on

i bilo je dobro da sam to čuo na početku

because it reminded me that that slow way of being dead

jer me je podsjetilo

da taj način

can lead to actual deadness,

može dovesti do stvarnog mrtvila,

that this is a serious business.

da je ovo ozbiljno.

It's the leading disability worldwide,

To je glavna invalidnost širom svijeta,

and people die of it every day.

i ljudi umiru zbog toga svaki dan.

One of the people I talked to when I was trying to understand this

Jedna od osoba s kojima sam razgovarao

kada sam pokušao ovo dokučiti

was a beloved friend who I had known for many years,

je bila draga prijateljica

koju sam poznavao mnogo godina,

and who had had a psychotic episode in her freshman year of college,

i koja je imala psihotičnu epizodu

kao brucoš na fakultetu,

and then plummeted into a horrific depression.

i onda je pala u užasnu depresiju.

She had bipolar illness,

Imala je bipolarni poremećaj,

or manic depression, as it was then known.

ili maničnu depresiju.

And then she did very well for many years on lithium,

Onda joj je godinama bilo

dobro na litijumu,

zatim je

and then eventually, she was taken off her lithium

bila skinuta sa litijuma

to see how she would do without it,

da bi se ustanovilo kako će joj biti bez toga,

and she had another psychosis,

pa je dobila novu psihozu,

and then plunged into the worst depression that I had ever seen

i zapala je u najgoru depresiju

koju sam ikada vidio

in which she sat in her parents' apartment,

u kojoj je sjedila u stanu svojih roditelja,

more or less catatonic, essentially without moving,

manje ili više katatonična, nepokretna,

day after day after day.

dan za danom.

And when I interviewed her about that experience some years later --

I kada sam je ispitivao u vezi tog iskustva nekoliko godina poslije --

she's a poet and psychotherapist named Maggie Robbins --

ona je pjesnikinja i psihoterapeut Maggie Robbins --

when I interviewed her, she said,

kada sam je intervjuisao, rekla je,

"I was singing 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone,'

"Pjevala sam 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone'

over and over, to occupy my mind.

iznova da zaokupiram misli.

I was singing to blot out the things my mind was saying,

Pjevala sam da izbrišem stvari koje je govorio moj mozak,

which were, 'You are nothing. You are nobody.

a to su, 'Ti si ništa. Ti si niko.

Ti ne zaslužuješ da živiš.'

You don't even deserve to live.'

And that was when I really started thinking

I tada sam zaista počela pomišljati

na samoubistvo."

about killing myself."

You don't think in depression that you've put on a gray veil

U depresiji ne smatraš

da imaš sivi veo

and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood.

i da gledaš svijet kroz maglu

lošeg raspoloženja.

You think that the veil has been taken away,

Smatraš da je veo sklonjen,

veo sreće,

the veil of happiness,

and that now you're seeing truly.

i da sada uistinu gledaš.

It's easier to help schizophrenics who perceive

Lakše je pomoći šizofreničarima koji osjećaju

that there's something foreign inside of them that needs to be exorcised,

da ima nešto strano u njima

koje treba istjerati,

but it's difficult with depressives,

nego depresivcima,

because we believe we are seeing the truth.

jer mislimo da vidimo istinu.

But the truth lies.

Ali istina laže.

I became obsessed with that sentence:

Postao sam opsjednut tom rečenicom:

"But the truth lies."

"Ali istina laže".

And I discovered, as I talked to depressive people,

Kako sam razgovarao sa depresivnim ljudima, otkrio sam

that they have many delusional perceptions.

da imaju mnoge obmanjujuće percepcije.

People will say, "No one loves me."

Ljudi kažu, "Niko me ne voli."

And you say, "I love you,

I ti kažeš, "Ja te volim,

your wife loves you, your mother loves you."

tvoja žena te voli, tvoja majka te voli."

You can answer that one pretty readily, at least for most people.

To možete spremno reći,

barem za većinu ljudi.

Ali ljudi koju su depresivni će reći,

But people who are depressed will also say,

"No matter what we do, we're all just going to die in the end."

"Šta god da uradimo,

ipak ćemo umrijeti na kraju."

Or they'll say, "There can be no true communion

Ili će reći, "Pravo zajedništvo

between two human beings.

dvoje ljudi ne postoji.

Each of us is trapped in his own body."

Svako je zatočen u svom tijelu."

To which you have to say,

Na što morate odgovoriti,

"That's true,

"To je istina,

but I think we should focus right now on what to have for breakfast."

ali mislim da se moramo fokusirati na sada

na ono što ćemo doručkovati."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

A lot of the time,

Većinu vremena,

what they are expressing is not illness, but insight,

oni ne izražavaju bolest, već spoznaju,

and one comes to think what's really extraordinary

a ono što je stvarno izuzetno

is that most of us know about those existential questions

je da većina nas je upoznata sa tim egzistencijalnim pitanjima

i oni nam ne odvlače pažnju puno.

and they don't distract us very much.

There was a study I particularly liked

Jedna studija mi se posebno svidjela

in which a group of depressed and a group of non-depressed people

u kojoj grupa depresivnih

i grupa nedepresivnih ljudi

su igrali video igru jedan sat,

were asked to play a video game for an hour,

and at the end of the hour,

nakon jednog sata,

they were asked how many little monsters they thought they had killed.

upitani su koliko malih čudovišta

smatraju da su ubili.

Grupa depresivnih ljudi je obično bila tačna

The depressive group was usually accurate to within about 10 percent,

do oko 10%,

and the non-depressed people

a grupa nedepresivnih ljudi

guessed between 15 and 20 times as many little monsters --

je pogodila između 15 i 20 puta

malih čudovišta -- (Smijeh) --

(Laughter)

nego što su ih stvarno ubili.

as they had actually killed.

A lot of people said, when I chose to write about my depression,

Kada sam odlučio pisati o depresiji, mnogi su rekli

that it must be very difficult to be out of that closet,

da mora biti veoma teško

saopštiti ljudima.

to have people know.

Oni su rekli, "Da li ljudi pričaju s tobom drugačije?"

They said, "Do people talk to you differently?"

I said, "Yes, people talk to me differently.

A ja sam rekao, "Da, pričaju drugačije.

They talk to me differently insofar

Pričaju drugačije tako što

as they start telling me about their experience,

mi počinju pričati svoje iskustvo,

or their sister's experience,

ili iskustvo svoje sestre,

or their friend's experience.

ili iskustvo svog prijatelja.

Things are different because now I know

Drugačije je jer sada znam

that depression is the family secret that everyone has.

da je depresija porodična tajna

koju svi imaju.

I went a few years ago to a conference,

Prije nekoliko godina otišao sam na jednu konferenciju

and on Friday of the three-day conference,

i u petak tokom trodnevne konferencije,

one of the participants took me aside, and she said,

jedna od učesnica me je odvela u stranu, i rekla,

"I suffer from depression and I'm a little embarrassed about it,

"Ja patim od depresije i

malo me je sram zbog toga,

ali uzimala sam ovaj lijek,

but I've been taking this medication,

and I just wanted to ask you what you think?"

i samo sam vas željela pitati za vaše mišljenje?"

Dao sam joj najbolji savjet koji sam mogao.

And so I did my best to give her such advice as I could.

And then she said, "You know, my husband would never understand this.

Zatim je rekla, "Znate,

moj muž nikad neće ovo razumijeti.

He's really the kind of guy to whom this wouldn't make any sense,

On je tip kojem ovo nema nikakvog smisla,

to je između nas."

so, you know, it's just between us."

And I said, "Yes, that's fine."

Ja sam rekao, "Da, to je uredu."

On Sunday of the same conference,

U subotu tokom iste konferencije,

her husband took me aside,

njen muž me je odveo u stranu,

(Laughter)

and he said, "My wife wouldn't think

i rekao, "Moja žena ne bi mislila

that I was really much of a guy if she knew this,

da sam pravi muškarac da zna ovo,

but I've been dealing with this depression and I'm taking some medication,

ali imam problem sa depresijom

i uzimam neke lijekove,

and I wondered what you think?"

i zanimalo me šta vi mislite?"

They were hiding the same medication

Oni su krili

isti lijek na različitim mjestima

in two different places in the same bedroom.

u istoj spavaćoj sobi.

(Laughter)

Rekao sam da mislim

And I said that I thought communication within the marriage

da komunikacija u braku

might be triggering some of their problems.

možda uzrokuje neke od njihovih problema.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

But I was also struck

Ali bio sam iznenađen

tegobnom prirodom

by the burdensome nature of such mutual secrecy.

obostrane tajnovitosti.

Depression is so exhausting.

Depresija je tako iscrpljujuća.

It takes up so much of your time and energy,

Oduzima toliko puno vašeg vremena i energije,

and silence about it,

i šutnje o tome

it really does make the depression worse.

stvarno čini depresiju gorom.

And then I began thinking

Onda sam počeo razmišljati o svim načinima

about all the ways people make themselves better.

na koji ljudi sebi olakšavaju.

I'd started off as a medical conservative.

Započeo sam kao medicinski konzervativac.

I thought there were a few kinds of therapy that worked,

Mislio sam da postoji nekoliko vrsta uspješnih terapija,

it was clear what they were --

jasno je da jesu --

there was medication,

postoje lijekovi,

there were certain psychotherapies,

postoje određene psihoterapije,

there was possibly electroconvulsive treatment,

možda postoji elektrokonvulzivno liječenje,

i da je sve drugo nonsens.

and that everything else was nonsense.

But then I discovered something.

Ali onda sam otkrio nešto.

If you have brain cancer,

Ako imate rak na mozgu,

and you say that standing on your head for 20 minutes every morning

i stajanje na glavi 20 minuta

svako jutro vam pomaže da se osjećate bolje,

makes you feel better,

it may make you feel better, but you still have brain cancer,

možda se osjećate bolje,

ali i dalje imate rak na mozgu,

and you'll still probably die from it.

i možda ćete i dalje umrijeti zbog toga.

But if you say that you have depression,

Ali ako imate depresiju,

and standing on your head for 20 minutes every day

i zbog stajanja na glavi 20 minuta svaki dan

osjećate se bolje, onda to pali,

makes you feel better, then it's worked,

because depression is an illness of how you feel,

jer depresija je bolest onoga kako se osjećate,

and if you feel better,

i ako se osjećate bolje

then you are effectively not depressed anymore.

onda više niste depresivni.

Stoga sam postao tolerantniji

So I became much more tolerant

na alternativna liječenja.

of the vast world of alternative treatments.

And I get letters, I get hundreds of letters

Dobijam hiljade pisama

from people writing to tell me about what's worked for them.

ljudi koji mi kažu šta kod njih pali.

Neko me je iza bine pitao danas

Someone was asking me backstage today about meditation.

o meditaciji.

My favorite of the letters that I got was the one that came from a woman

Moje omiljeno pismo

je od žene

who wrote and said that she had tried therapy, medication,

koja je napisala da je probala terapiju,

lijekove, probala je skoro sve,

she had tried pretty much everything,

i našla je rješenje, i nada se da ću ga prenijeti svijetu,

and she had found a solution and hoped I would tell the world,

a to je pravljenje malenih stvari od pletiva.

and that was making little things from yarn.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

She sent me some of them.

Poslala mi je nekoliko njih. (Smijeh)

(Laughter)

And I'm not wearing them right now.

Ne nosim ih trenutno.

(Laughter)

I suggested to her that she also should look up

Predložio sam joj da potraži

obsessive compulsive disorder in the DSM.

opsesivno-kompulzivni poremećaj u priručniku.

And yet, when I went to look at alternative treatments,

Kada sam potražio alternativna liječenja,

I also gained perspective on other treatments.

saznao sam o drugim liječenjima.

I went through a tribal exorcism in Senegal

Prošao sam kroz plemenski egorcizam u Senegalu

that involved a great deal of ram's blood

koji je uključivao mnogo ovnove krvi

and that I'm not going to detail right now,

a čije detalje neću iznositi sada.

but a few years afterwards I was in Rwanda,

Nekoliko godina poslije, radio sam u Ruandi

working on a different project,

na jednom drugačijem projektu.

and I happened to describe my experience to someone,

Opisivao sam svoje iskustvo jednoj osobi,

and he said,

a on je rekao, "Pa, znaš,

"Well, that's West Africa, and we're in East Africa,

to je zapadna Afrika, a mi smo u istočnoj Africi,

and our rituals are in some ways very different,

i naši rituali se na određeni način veoma razlikuju

but we do have some rituals

ali imamo neke rituale koji imaju nešto

that have something in common with what you're describing."

zajedničko sa tim što opisuješ."

Rekao sam, "Je li", a on je rekao "Da, ali

And he said,

"But we've had a lot of trouble with Western mental health workers,

imali smo mnogo problema sa radnicima u mentalnog zdravlja na zapadu,

posebno s onima koji su došli odmah poslije genocida."

especially the ones who came right after the genocide."

Rekao sam, "Kakve ste probleme imali?"

I said, "What kind of trouble did you have?"

Rekao je, "Pa,

And he said, "Well, they would do this bizarre thing.

radii bi bizarne stvari.

They didn't take people out in the sunshine

Nisu izvodili ljude na sunce

gdje bi se počeli osjećati bolje.

where you begin to feel better.

They didn't include drumming or music to get people's blood going.

Nisu uključivali bubnjanje ili muziku da pokrenu ljude.

They didn't involve the whole community.

Nisu uključili cijelu zajednicu.

They didn't externalize the depression as an invasive spirit.

Nisu prikazali depresiju u vanjskom obliku

kao napadački duh.

Instead what they did was they took people one at a time into dingy little rooms

Umjesto toga, oni su odveli jednu po jednu osobu

u prljave male sobe i

and had them talk for an hour

tražili da pričaju sat vremena

about bad things that had happened to them."

o lošim stvarim koje su im se događale."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh) (Aplauz)

(Applause)

He said, "We had to ask them to leave the country."

Rekao je, "Morali smo ih zamoliti da napuste zemlju."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

Now at the other end of alternative treatments,

Na drugom kraju alternativnih liječenja,

dopustite mi da vam ispričam o Franku Russakoffu.

let me tell you about Frank Russakoff.

On je imao najgoru depresiju

Frank Russakoff had the worst depression perhaps that I've ever seen in a man.

koju sam vidio kod čovjeka.

He was constantly depressed.

Bio je konstantno depresivan.

He was, when I met him,

Kada sam ga upoznao svaki mjesec

at a point at which every month, he would have electroshock treatment.

je imao tretman elektrošokom.

Then he would feel sort of disoriented for a week.

Osjećao bi se dezorijentisan čitavu sedmicu.

Then he would feel okay for a week.

Onda bi bio dobro čitavu sedmicu.

Then he would have a week of going downhill.

A onda bi išao nizbrdo cijelu sedmicu.

And then he would have another electroshock treatment.

Onda bi opet imao tretman elektrošokom.

Kada sam ga upoznao, rekao mi je,

And he said to me when I met him,

"It's unbearable to go through my weeks this way.

"Nepodnošljivo je prolaziti ovako.

Ne mogu više ovako,

I can't go on this way,

and I've figured out how I'm going to end it

skontao sam kako ću ovo okončati

if I don't get better."

ako mi ne bude bolje.

"But," he said to me, "I heard about a protocol at Mass General

Ali", rekao mi je, "čuo sam o protokolu

na Mass General bolnici za proceduru koja se zove

for a procedure called a cingulotomy, which is a brain surgery,

cingulotomija, operacija na mozgu,

and I think I'm going to give that a try."

mislim da ću probati to."

And I remember being amazed at that point to think that someone

Sjećam se da sam bio zadivljen u tom trenutku

da neko ko je očito

who clearly had so many bad experiences

imao toliko loše iskustva

with so many different treatments

sa toliko raznih tretmana

still had buried in him, somewhere, enough optimism

i dalje ima negdje duboko u sebi optimizma

to reach out for one more.

da pokuša sa još jednim tretmanom.

And he had the cingulotomy, and it was incredibly successful.

Podvrgnuo se cingulatomiji,

i bila je nevjerovatno uspješna.

He's now a friend of mine.

Danas smo prijatelji.

He has a lovely wife and two beautiful children.

Ima divnu ženu i dvoje prelijepe djece.

He wrote me a letter the Christmas after the surgery,

Pisao mi je za Božić poslije operacije,

and he said,

i napisao,

"My father sent me two presents this year,

"Otac mi je poslao dva poklona ove godine,

First, a motorized CD rack from The Sharper Image

Prvo, stalak za CD-ove iz The Sharper Image

that I didn't really need,

koji mi zapravo ne treba,

but I knew he was giving it to me to celebrate

ali znam da mi je to poklonio da proslavim

the fact that I'm living on my own and have a job I seem to love.

činjenicu da mogu da živim samostalno

i da imam posao koji izgleda da volim.

And the other present was a photo of my grandmother,

A drugi poklon

je bio slika moje bake,

who committed suicide.

koja se ubila.

As I unwrapped it, I began to cry,

Kada sam je otpakovao počeo sam plakati,

and my mother came over and said,

moja majka je prišla i rekla,

'Are you crying because of the relatives you never knew?'

'Da li plačeš zbog rodbine koju nikada nisu poznavao?'

Rekao sam, 'Ona je imala istu bolest kao i ja.'

And I said, 'She had the same disease I have.'

I'm crying now as I write to you.

Plačem dok ti pišem ovo.

It's not that I'm so sad, but I get overwhelmed,

Nije da sam tužan, ali savladaju me emocije

I think, because I could have killed myself,

jer sam se mogao ubiti,

but my parents kept me going, and so did the doctors,

ali roditelji su me održavali u životu,

kao i doktori,

and I had the surgery.

a onda sam imao operaciju.

I'm alive and grateful.

Živ sam i zahvalan.

We live in the right time, even if it doesn't always feel like it."

Živimo u pravom vremenu,

iako se uvijek ne čini tako."

I was struck by the fact that depression

Bio sam iznenađen činjenicom da depresija

is broadly perceived to be a modern, Western, middle-class thing,

je općenito shvaćena kao

moderna, zapadnjačka, buržujska stvar,

and I went to look at how it operated in a variety of other contexts,

krenuo sam da vidim kako funkcioniše

u raznim drugim kontekstima.

and one of the things I was most interested in

Jedna od stvari za koju sam najviše bio zainteresiran

was depression among the indigent.

je depresija kod siromašnih ljudi.

Krenuo sam da vidim

And so I went out to try to look

at what was being done for poor people with depression.

kako se pomaže siromašnim ljudima s depresijom.

And what I discovered is that poor people

Otkrio sam da siromašni ljudi

are mostly not being treated for depression.

uglavnom nisu lječeni za depresiju.

Depresija je rezultat genetičke ranjivosti,

Depression is the result of a genetic vulnerability,

which is presumably evenly distributed in the population,

koja je vjerovatno jednako rasprostranjena u populaciji,

and triggering circumstances,

i okolonosti koji je izazivaju,

which are likely to be more severe for people who are impoverished.

koji su vjerovatno ozbiljniji

za siromašne ljude.

And yet it turns out that if you have a really lovely life

Ipak ispada da ako imaš

divnu ženu ali stalno se osjećaš jadno,

but feel miserable all the time,

you think, "Why do I feel like this?

pomisliš, "Zašto se osjećam ovako?

I must have depression."

Mora da imam depresiju."

And you set out to find treatment for it.

I kreneš tražiti lijek za to.

Ali ako imaš užasan život,

But if you have a perfectly awful life,

and you feel miserable all the time,

i stalno se osječaš jadno,

the way you feel is commensurate with your life,

način kako se osjećaš je proporcionalan tvom životu,

and it doesn't occur to you to think,

i ne pada ti na pamet da pomisliš,

"Maybe this is treatable."

"Možda se ovo može liječiti."

And so we have an epidemic in this country

Tako imamo epidemiju depresije

of depression among impoverished people

među siromašnim ljudima u ovoj državi

that's not being picked up and that's not being treated

koja nije otkrivena i koja se ne liječi

and that's not being addressed,

i koja se ne rješava,

and it's a tragedy of a grand order.

to je velika tragedija.

And so I found an academic

Našao sam profesoricu

who was doing a research project in slums outside of D.C.,

koja je radila istraživački projekat

u sirotinjskim četvrtima izvan Washingtona,

where she picked up women who had come in for other health problems

gdje je upoznala žene koje su došle zbog drugih zdravstvenih problema

and diagnosed them with depression,

i dijagonisticirala im je depresiju,

i onda omogućila 6 mjeseci eksperimentalnog protokola.

and then provided six months of the experimental protocol.

One of them, Lolly, came in,

Jedna od njih, Lolly, je došla,

and this is what she said the day she came in.

i evo šta je rekla taj dan.

Usput, ona je žena

She said, and she was a woman, by the way, who had seven children.

koja ima sedmero djece. Rekla je,

She said, "I used to have a job but I had to give it up

"Imala sam posao, ali morala sam ga se odreći, jer

because I couldn't go out of the house.

nisam mogla izaći iz kuće.

Nemam šta reći svojoj djeci.

I have nothing to say to my children.

In the morning, I can't wait for them to leave,

Ujutro, jedva čekam da odu,

and then I climb in bed and pull the covers over my head,

i onda legnem u krevet i prekrijem glavu pokrivačem,

a 3 sata kada se vraćaju

and three o'clock when they come home,

dolete tako brzo."

it just comes so fast."

She said, "I've been taking a lot of Tylenol,

Rekla je, "Uzimala sam dosta Tylenola,

anything I can take so that I can sleep more.

bilo šta da spavam više.

My husband has been telling me I'm stupid, I'm ugly.

Moj muž mi je govorio da sam glupa, ružna.

I wish I could stop the pain."

Željela bih da zaustavim bol."

Well, she was brought into this experimental protocol,

Ona je uključena u ovaj eksperimentalni program,

and when I interviewed her six months later,

i kada sam je intervjuisao 6 mjeseci poslije,

she had taken a job working in childcare

počela je raditi u vrtiću

for the U.S. Navy, she had left the abusive husband,

za Ratnu mornaricu SAD-a, napustila je nasilnog muža,

i rekla mi je,

and she said to me,

"Moja djeca su mnogo sretnija sada."

"My kids are so much happier now."

She said, "There's one room in my new place for the boys

Rekla je, "U mom novom domu postoji jedna soba

za dječake i jedna za djevojčice,

and one room for the girls,

ali navečer, svi su u mom krevetu,

but at night, they're just all up on my bed,

and we're doing homework all together and everything.

radimo zadaću, svi zajedno.

One of them wants to be a preacher,

Jedan od njih želi biti svećenik,

one of them wants to be a firefighter,

jedan želi biti vatrogasac,

and one of the girls says she's going to be a lawyer.

a jedna od djevojčica kaže da želi biti advokat.

They don't cry like they used to,

Ne plaču kao prije,

and they don't fight like they did.

i ne svađaju se.

Sve što sada trebam su moja djeca.

That's all I need now, is my kids.

Things keep on changing,

Stvari se mijenjaju,

the way I dress, the way I feel, the way I act.

način na koji se oblačim, osjećam, ponašam.

I can go outside not being afraid anymore,

Mogu izaći vani bez straha,

and I don't think those bad feelings are coming back,

i ne mislim da će se ti loši osjećaji vratiti,

i da nije bilo doktorice Mirande

and if it weren't for Dr. Miranda and that,

ja bih i dalje bila kući sa prekrivačem preko glave,

I would still be at home with the covers pulled over my head,

if I were still alive at all.

ako bi uopšte bila živa.

Molila sam Boga da mi pošalje anđela,

I asked the Lord to send me an angel,

and He heard my prayers."

i on uslišio je moje molitve."

Ova iskustva su me zaista dirnula,

I was really moved by these experiences,

and I decided that I wanted to write about them

i odlučio sam da želim da pišem o njima

not only in a book I was working on, but also in an article,

ne samo za knjigu na kojoj sam radio,

već i u članku.

and I got a commission from The New York Times Magazine

Dobio sam narudžbu od The New York Times Magazina

da pišem o depresiji među siromašnima.

to write about depression among the indigent.

Predao sam svoju priču.

And I turned in my story,

and my editor called me and said, "We really can't publish this."

Moj urednik me je nazvao i rekao

"Ovo zaista ne možemo objaviti."

Rekao sam, "Zašto ne?"

And I said, "Why not?"

And she said, "It just is too far-fetched.

Ona je rekla, "Ovo je neuvjerljivo.

These people who are sort of at the very bottom rung of society

Ove osobe na samom dnu društvene ljestice

and then they get a few months of treatment

prime nekoliko mjeseci lječenja

and they're virtually ready to run Morgan Stanley?

i onda su doslovno spremni da upravljaju Morganom Stanleyjem?

To je nevjerovatno."

It's just too implausible."

Rekla je, "Nikad nisam čula za takvo nešto."

She said, "I've never even heard of anything like it."

And I said, "The fact that you've never heard of it

Ja sam rekao, "To što vi niste čuli za to

pokazuje da je to novost."

is an indication that it is news."

(Laughter)

(Smijeh) (Aplauz)

(Applause)

"And you are a news magazine."

"A vi ste novina."

So after a certain amount of negotiation, they agreed to it.

Nakon određenog pregovaranja,

pristali su.

But I think a lot of what they said was connected in some strange way

Ali mnogo sam razmišljao da ono što su reklli

je na neki čudan načim povezao

to this distaste that people still have for the idea of treatment,

sa gnušanjem ljudi prema

ideji liječenja,

the notion that somehow if we went out

da ako odemo

and treated a lot of people in indigent communities,

da liječimo ljude u siromašnim zajednicama,

that would be exploitative,

to bi bilo izrabljivački

because we would be changing them.

jer bismo ih mijenjali.

There is this false moral imperative that seems to be all around us,

Postoji lažni moralni imperativ

oko nas

that treatment of depression,

da je liječenje depresije,

the medications and so on, are an artifice,

lijekovi i tako dalje, izmišljotina,

and that it's not natural.

i da nije prirodno.

And I think that's very misguided.

Mislim da je to veoma pogrešno.

It would be natural for people's teeth to fall out,

Normalno je da zubi ispadaju,

but there is nobody militating against toothpaste,

ali niko ne sprečava korištenje kaladonta,

at least not in my circles.

barem ne u mojoj okolini.

People then say,

Ljudi onda kažu, "Pa, zar nije depresija ono

"But isn't depression part of what people are supposed to experience?

što ljudi trebaju iskusiti?

Zar se nismo razvili da imamo depresiju?

Didn't we evolve to have depression?

Zar to nije dio ličnosti?"

Isn't it part of your personality?"

To which I would say, mood is adaptive.

Na to ja odgovaram, raspoloženje je prilagodljivo.

Being able to have sadness and fear

Iskustvo tuge i straha,

and joy and pleasure

radosti i zadovoljstva

and all of the other moods that we have, that's incredibly valuable.

i sva druga raspoloženje,

su nevjerovatno vrijedna.

And major depression

Velika depresija je nešto što se dogodi

is something that happens when that system gets broken.

kada se taj sistem pokvari.

It's maladaptive.

To je loša prilagodba.

People will come to me and say,

Ljudi mi prilaze i kažu,

"I think, though, if I just stick it out for another year,

"Ako izdržim još jednu godinu,

I think I can just get through this."

mislim da mogu uspjeti."

And I always say to them, "You may get through it,

Uvijek m kažem, "Možeš uspjeti,

ali nikad više nećeš imati 37 godin.

but you'll never be 37 again.

Life is short, and that's a whole year you're talking about giving up.

Život je prekratak, i to je čitava godina dana

koje bi se odrekao.

Think it through."

Dobro promisli."

It's a strange poverty of the English language,

Zbog siromašnosti engleskog jezika,

and indeed of many other languages,

kao i drugih jezika,

that we use this same word, depression,

mi koristimo istu riječ, depresija,

to describe how a kid feels when it rains on his birthday,

da opišemo kako se djete osjeća

kada pada kiša na njegov rođendan,

and to describe how somebody feels the minute before they commit suicide.

i da opišemo kako se neko osjeća

minutu prije nego počine samoubistvo.

People say to me, "Well, is it continuous with normal sadness?"

Ljudi mi govore, "Pa, da li traje duže nego normalna tuga?"

And I say, in a way it's continuous with normal sadness.

A ja odgovorim da traje na neki način.

There is a certain amount of continuity,

Postoji određena količina neprekidnosti,

but it's the same way there's continuity

isto kao što

between having an iron fence outside your house

kada željezna ograda ispred kuće

ima malo hrđe

that gets a little rust spot

that you have to sand off and do a little repainting,

koja se mora ošmirglati i prefarbati,

and what happens if you leave the house for 100 years

a šta se dogodi ako ostavimo kuću na 100 godins+a,

and it rusts through until it's only a pile of orange dust.

ona će hrđati sve dok se ne pretvori u hrpu

narandžaste prašine.

Ta narandžasta prašnjava mrlja

And it's that orange dust spot,

that orange dust problem,

je problem

that's the one we're setting out to address.

koji želimo da riješimo.

Ljudi kažu,

So now people say,

"Ako uzmemo ove sretne lijekove, da li se osjećamo sretno?"

"You take these happy pills, and do you feel happy?"

And I don't.

Ja se ne osjećam.

But I don't feel sad about having to eat lunch,

Ali nisam tužan što moram ručati,

and I don't feel sad about my answering machine,

nisam tužan zbog telefonske sekretrice,

and I don't feel sad about taking a shower.

nisam tužan zbog tuširanja.

I feel more, in fact, I think,

Osjećam se, zapravo, mislim,

because I can feel sadness without nullity.

jer mogu osjećati tugu bez ništavnosti.

I feel sad about professional disappointments,

Tužan sam zbog profesionalnih razočarenja,

about damaged relationships,

zbog narušenih veza,

about global warming.

zbog globalnog zagrijavanja.

Those are the things that I feel sad about now.

Zbog toga sam tužan sada.

And I said to myself, well, what is the conclusion?

Rekao sam sebi, pa šta je zaključak?

How did those people who have better lives

Kako su ljudi sa boljim životima

even with bigger depression manage to get through?

i većom depresijom uspjeli?

What is the mechanism of resilience?

Koji je mehanizam otpornosti?

And what I came up with over time

S vremenom sam zaključio

was that the people who deny their experience,

da ljudi koji osporavaju svoje iskustvo,

and say, "I was depressed a long time ago,

oni koji ironično kažu, "Bio sam depresivan jako dugo

I never want to think about it again,

i ne želim o tome razmišljati više

I'm not going to look at it

ne želim gledati na to

and I'm just going to get on with my life,"

želim samo nastaviti sa svojim životom,"

ironically, those are the people who are most enslaved by what they have.

to su ljudi

koji su najviše zarobljeni sa onim što imaju.

Shutting out the depression strengthens it.

Potiskivanje depresije samo je čini snažnijom.

While you hide from it, it grows.

Ona raste, dok se vi krijete od nje.

Ljudi kojima je bolje

And the people who do better

are the ones who are able to tolerate the fact that they have this condition.

su oni koji mogu tolerisati činjenicu

da imaju ovu bolest.

Oni koji mogu tolerisati svoju depresiju

Those who can tolerate their depression are the ones who achieve resilience.

su oni koji su otporni.

So Frank Russakoff said to me,

Frank Russakof mi je rekao,

"If I had a do-over, I suppose I wouldn't do it this way,

"Ako bih morao proći kroz ovo opet,

pretpostavljam da ne bih uradio isto,

but in a strange way, I'm grateful for what I've experienced.

ali na čudan način, ja sam zahvalan

na svom iskustvu.

I'm glad to have been in the hospital 40 times.

Drago mi je što sam bio 40 puta u bolnici.

Toliko me je naučila o ljubavi,

It taught me so much about love,

and my relationship with my parents and my doctors

moj odnos sa roditeljima i doktorima

has been so precious to me, and will be always."

je dragocijen."

And Maggie Robbins said,

Maggie Robbins je rekla,

"I used to volunteer in an AIDS clinic,

"Volontirala sam u klinici za AIDS,

and I would just talk and talk and talk,

pričala sam i pričala

and the people I was dealing with weren't very responsive, and I thought,

sam ljudima

koji nisu baš uzvraćali, i mislila sam,

'That's not very friendly or helpful of them.'"

'To nije prijateljski ili korisno sa njihove strane.'

(Laughter)

"And then I realized,

Onda sam shvatila

I realized that they weren't going to do more

da neće uraditi više

than make those first few minutes of small talk.

od tih prvih nekoliko minuta čavrljanja.

It was simply going to be an occasion

To će jednostavno biti situacija

where I didn't have AIDS and I wasn't dying,

u kojoj ja nemam AIDS i ne umirem,

but could tolerate the fact that they did

ali mogu tolerisati činjenicu da oni imaju

and they were.

i da će umrijeti.

Our needs are our greatest assets.

Naše potrebe su naša najveća imovina.

Ispostavilo se da sam naučila dati

It turns out I've learned to give all the things I need."

sve što mi treba."

Valuing one's depression does not prevent a relapse,

Ako cijenimo tuđu depresiju,

to neće spriječiti da se ona ponovo javi,

but it may make the prospect of relapse

ali može tolerisati izglede

and even relapse itself easier to tolerate.

ponovne depresije.

To nije pitanje

The question is not so much of finding great meaning

traženja značenja i odlučivanja da li je

and deciding your depression has been very meaningful.

depresija imala smisla.

It's of seeking that meaning and thinking, when it comes again,

To je pitanje traženja tog značenja

i razmišljanja, kada se pojavi ponovo,

"This will be hellish, but I will learn something from it."

"Ovo će biti kao u paklu,

ali naučit ću nešto iz toga."

I have learned in my own depression

Iz svoje depresije sam naučio

how big an emotion can be,

kako velika emocija može biti,

how it can be more real than facts,

kako može biti stvarnija od činjenica,

i otkrio sam da to iskustvo

and I have found that that experience

has allowed me to experience positive emotion

mi je omogućilo da iskusim pozitivne emocije

in a more intense and more focused way.

na intenzivniji i usmjereni način.

The opposite of depression is not happiness,

Suprotnost depresije nije sreća,

but vitality,

nego životna snaga,

and these days, my life is vital,

Ovih dana, pun sam životne snage,

čak i kad sam tužan.

even on the days when I'm sad.

I felt that funeral in my brain,

Osjetih pogreb u svom mozgu,

and I sat next to the colossus at the edge of the world,

i sjedoh pokraj kolosa

na kraju svijeta.

and I have discovered something inside of myself

Otkrio sam

nešto unutar sebe

that I would have to call a soul

što moram nazvati dušom

that I had never formulated until that day 20 years ago

što nikad nisam formulisao do tog dana 20 godina prije

when hell came to pay me a surprise visit.

kada me je đavo iznenada posjetio.

I think that while I hated being depressed

Iako mrzim biti u depresiji,

and would hate to be depressed again,

i mrzio bih da se ponovo pojavi,

I've found a way to love my depression.

Otkrio sam načim da zavolim svoju depresiju.

I love it because it has forced me to find and cling to joy.

Volim je jer me je natjerala

da nađem radost i da je se držim.

I love it because each day I decide,

Zbog toga što svaki dan odlučim,

sometimes gamely,

ponekad odvažno,

and sometimes against the moment's reason,

a ponekad neopravdano,

to cleave to the reasons for living.

da se držim razloga zbog kojih vrijedi živjeti.

And that, I think, is a highly privileged rapture.

Mislim da je to veoma privilegovano ushićenje.

Hvala vam.

Thank you.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Thank you.

(Applause)