Depression, the secret we share | Andrew Solomon

6,054,749 views ・ 2013-12-18

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譯者: Shiwen He 審譯者: Marssi Draw
00:15
"I felt a Funeral, in my Brain,
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「在我的腦海中,有一場葬禮,
00:19
and Mourners to and fro
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哀悼者來來去去,
00:22
kept treading -- treading -- till [it seemed]
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不停踩踏,踩踏,直到我感覺
感官衝破了覺知。
00:25
that Sense was breaking through --
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00:27
And when they all were seated,
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當眾人全都就座,
00:29
a Service, like a Drum --
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儀式開始,像擊鼓般,
00:31
kept beating -- beating -- till I [thought]
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不斷敲擊、敲擊,直到感覺
我的意識就此麻木。
00:35
my Mind was going numb --
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00:37
And then I heard them lift a Box and creak across my Soul
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此刻我聽見他們抬起棺木,
嘰嘎聲穿透我的魂。
00:41
with those same Boots of Lead, again,
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鉛靴的踏步聲再度揚起,
00:45
then Space -- began to toll,
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伴隨喪鐘迴盪,
00:48
As [all] the Heavens were a Bell, and Being, [but] an Ear,
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彷彿天空是具大鐘,
只剩下一只耳朵存在,
00:52
and I, and Silence, some strange Race,
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而我與寂靜間,一場微妙的追逐,
00:55
wrecked, solitary, here --
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獨自在此破碎。
00:58
[And] then a Plank in Reason, broke,
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就在此時,理性忽然斷了弦,
01:01
and I fell down and down --
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我不斷墜落,
01:05
and hit a World, at every plunge,
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每次墜落都撞上一個世界,
01:07
and Finished knowing -- then --"
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最終豁然開朗。 」
01:12
We know depression through metaphors.
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我們透過文學隱喻認識了憂鬱。
01:15
Emily Dickinson was able to convey it in language,
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艾蜜莉.狄更生(十九世紀美國詩人) 用詩歌描寫它,
01:19
Goya in an image.
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哥雅(西班牙畫家)用繪畫詮釋,
01:22
Half the purpose of art is to describe such iconic states.
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半數藝術品的目的
是為了描述這象徵性的狀態。
01:27
As for me, I had always thought myself tough,
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對我而言,我總把自己看做一名鬥士,
01:31
one of the people who could survive
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是那種即使被送往集中營
01:33
if I'd been sent to a concentration camp.
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也可以存活下來的人。
01:36
In 1991, I had a series of losses.
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1991 年,我經歷了一連串的不幸。
01:39
My mother died,
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我的母親去世,
01:41
a relationship I'd been in ended,
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戀情終結,
01:43
I moved back to the United States from some years abroad,
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多年居住外國之後,
我返回了美國。
01:47
and I got through all of those experiences intact.
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我安然無恙地經歷這一切。
01:50
But in 1994, three years later,
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但是到了 1994 年,即三年之後,
01:53
I found myself losing interest in almost everything.
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我發現自己對所有的事情都失去了興趣。
任何我曾經喜歡做的事情,
01:58
I didn't want to do any of the things I had previously wanted to do,
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我都不願意做。
02:01
and I didn't know why.
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對此我毫無頭緒。
02:03
The opposite of depression is not happiness, but vitality.
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憂鬱的反面
不是快樂,而是活力。
正是這種活力,
02:09
And it was vitality
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02:10
that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.
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在那時似乎從我體內一點一點地消失。
02:14
Everything there was to do seemed like too much work.
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任何需要做的事情
都變得困難無比。
02:18
I would come home
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我回到家裡,
02:20
and I would see the red light flashing on my answering machine,
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看到答錄機上閃爍跳躍的紅燈,
02:23
and instead of being thrilled to hear from my friends,
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我非但不會因為有朋友的音訊而感到興奮。
02:25
I would think,
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我會想著:
02:27
"What a lot of people that is to have to call back."
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「怎麼有這麼多人需要我回覆電話!」
02:30
Or I would decide I should have lunch,
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又比如,我知道自己該吃午餐了。
02:32
and then I would think, but I'd have to get the food out
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我就會想,我需要把食物取出來,
02:35
and put it on a plate
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放在盤子上,
02:37
and cut it up and chew it and swallow it,
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切開它們,嚼碎它們再嚥下去。
02:41
and it felt to me like the Stations of the Cross.
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這對我就像耶穌受難一樣難熬。
02:45
And one of the things that often gets lost in discussions of depression
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有關憂鬱的討論中,
有一點經常讓人困惑,
02:49
is that you know it's ridiculous.
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那就是你明白這一切都很荒謬。
02:51
You know it's ridiculous while you're experiencing it.
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當你經歷這一切的時候, 你知道這很荒謬。
02:54
You know that most people manage
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你知道大多數人能夠
02:56
to listen to their messages and eat lunch
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聽他們的電話留言、吃午飯、
02:58
and organize themselves to take a shower
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打點好自己、沖個澡,
03:00
and go out the front door
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然後走出大門。
03:02
and that it's not a big deal,
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這些事無關緊要,
03:03
and yet you are nonetheless in its grip
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但你卻依然深陷其中,
03:06
and you are unable to figure out any way around it.
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你無法找到逃離的方式。
03:10
And so I began to feel myself doing less
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於是我發現自己做的事越來越少,
03:15
and thinking less
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思考愈來愈少,
03:17
and feeling less.
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感覺越來越少,
03:19
It was a kind of nullity.
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處在一種虛無狀態中。
03:22
And then the anxiety set in.
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這時焦慮出現了。
03:24
If you told me that I'd have to be depressed for the next month,
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如果你告訴我,
我會在下個月一直憂鬱,
03:28
I would say, "As long I know it'll be over in November, I can do it."
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我會說:「只要我知道, 憂鬱會在 11 月消失,我就能挺過去。」
03:31
But if you said to me,
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然而如果你這樣說:
03:32
"You have to have acute anxiety for the next month,"
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「你會在下個月嚴重焦慮。」
我寧願割腕也不願意承受。
03:36
I would rather slit my wrist than go through it.
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03:38
It was the feeling all the time
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這是一種持續的感受,
03:40
like that feeling you have if you're walking
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就好像你走在路上,
03:42
and you slip or trip and the ground is rushing up at you,
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你跌倒了或者絆倒了,
地面猛然衝向你。
03:45
but instead of lasting half a second, the way that does,
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但是這感覺不是只有半秒,
03:48
it lasted for six months.
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這感覺要持續六個月。
03:50
It's a sensation of being afraid all the time
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這是一種無時無刻感到害怕,
03:53
but not even knowing what it is that you're afraid of.
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卻不知道你在害怕什麼的感覺。
03:57
And it was at that point that I began to think
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那一刻我開始想,
03:59
that it was just too painful to be alive,
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活著太痛苦了。
04:03
and that the only reason not to kill oneself
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人不會自殺的唯一理由,
04:06
was so as not to hurt other people.
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就是不想傷害旁人。
04:09
And finally one day, I woke up
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終於有一天,我醒來,
04:12
and I thought perhaps I'd had a stroke,
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我想我可能中風了。
04:14
because I lay in bed completely frozen,
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因為我躺在床上,渾身僵硬。
04:16
looking at the telephone, thinking,
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我看著電話,心想:
04:18
"Something is wrong and I should call for help,"
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「出事了,我應該打電話求救。」
04:22
and I couldn't reach out my arm
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我卻無法伸出胳膊,
04:24
and pick up the phone and dial.
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無法拿起電話撥號,
04:26
And finally, after four full hours of my lying and staring at it,
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終於,在我躺著盯著電話 整整四個小時之後,
04:30
the phone rang,
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電話響了。
04:32
and somehow I managed to pick it up,
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不知怎麼我拿起了聽筒,
04:34
and it was my father, and I said,
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那是我父親來電。
我說:「我麻煩大了,
04:37
"I'm in serious trouble. We need to do something."
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我們必須做點什麼。 」
04:41
The next day I started with the medications and the therapy.
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第二天我開始接受藥物治療
和心理治療。
04:47
And I also started reckoning with this terrible question:
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並且我開始思索
這個可怕的問題:
04:51
If I'm not the tough person
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如果我不是個堅強的人,
04:53
who could have made it through a concentration camp,
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不是那種可以在集中營裡存活的人,
04:56
then who am I?
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那麼我是誰?
04:57
And if I have to take medication,
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如果我必須服用藥物,
04:59
is that medication making me more fully myself,
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那麼藥物是讓我變得更像我自己,
05:03
or is it making me someone else?
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還是讓我變成了別人?
05:05
And how do I feel about it if it's making me someone else?
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我要如何知道
藥物是否讓我變成了別人呢?
在這場戰鬥中我有兩個優勢:
05:10
I had two advantages as I went into the fight.
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05:13
The first is that I knew that, objectively speaking,
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第一,我很清楚,客觀地說,
05:16
I had a nice life,
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我有很好的生活。
05:17
and that if I could only get well,
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一旦我好起來,
05:19
there was something at the other end that was worth living for.
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還會有一些東西
值得我去追求。
05:23
And the other was that I had access to good treatment.
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另外一點是我能接受很好的治療。
05:26
But I nonetheless emerged and relapsed,
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然而我卻反覆發作,
05:29
and emerged and relapsed,
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好轉又發作,
05:32
and emerged and relapsed,
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又一次好轉,再發作。
05:35
and finally understood
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終於我明白,
05:37
I would have to be on medication and in therapy forever.
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自己必須一輩子
服藥和治療。
05:41
And I thought,
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於是我想:「但是這到底是化學問題
05:42
"But is it a chemical problem or a psychological problem?
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還是心理問題?
05:45
And does it need a chemical cure or a philosophical cure?"
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是需要化學療法還是哲學療法?」
05:49
And I couldn't figure out which it was.
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我想不出是哪一種。
05:51
And then I understood that actually,
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接著我懂了,
事實上,我們對這兩個領域的了解
05:54
we aren't advanced enough in either area for it to explain things fully.
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都不足以完全解釋真相。
05:58
The chemical cure and the psychological cure
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化學療法和心理療法都有
06:01
both have a role to play,
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各自的作用。
06:03
and I also figured out that depression was something
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同時我明白了憂鬱是一種
深深根植於我們體內的東西。
06:07
that was braided so deep into us
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06:09
that there was no separating it from our character and personality.
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我們無法從性格和個性中
將憂鬱剝離開來。
06:13
I want to say that the treatments we have for depression are appalling.
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我想說我們對憂鬱的治療
方法太過恐怖。
這些方法不太有效,
06:18
They're not very effective.
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06:19
They're extremely costly.
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而且代價高昂,
06:21
They come with innumerable side effects.
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還帶來無數副作用,
06:24
They're a disaster.
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簡直就是場災難。
不過我很慶幸自己活在現代,
06:26
But I am so grateful that I live now and not 50 years ago,
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而不是 50 年前,
06:30
when there would have been almost nothing to be done.
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那時候幾乎沒有任何
治療的辦法。
06:33
I hope that 50 years hence,
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我想 50 年以後,
06:36
people will hear about my treatments
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人們聽說我的治療方法,
會驚訝於居然有人能忍受
06:38
and be appalled that anyone endured such primitive science.
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如此原始粗糙的科學。
06:42
Depression is the flaw in love.
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憂鬱是愛的缺陷。
06:47
If you were married to someone and thought,
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如果你將要和另一半結婚,然後想:
06:50
"Well, if my wife dies, I'll find another one,"
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「好吧,如果我妻子死了,我會再找一個。」
06:54
it wouldn't be love as we know it.
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這不是我們熟知的愛情。
06:57
There's no such thing as love without the anticipation of loss,
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沒有這樣一種愛情,
只有獲取幸福卻不用體驗失去。
07:01
and that specter of despair can be the engine of intimacy.
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這種絕望的幽靈,
會是親密關係的動力。
07:08
There are three things people tend to confuse:
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人們容易混淆三件事:
07:11
depression, grief and sadness.
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憂鬱,悲傷和難過。
07:14
Grief is explicitly reactive.
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悲傷是明確的反應。
07:18
If you have a loss and you feel incredibly unhappy,
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如果你因為損失而感到非常不開心,
07:21
and then, six months later,
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那麼六個月之後,
07:22
you are still deeply sad, but you're functioning a little better,
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你仍然很難過,但日常作息好轉了一些。
這大概就是悲傷。
07:26
it's probably grief,
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07:27
and it will probably ultimately resolve itself in some measure.
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它可能最終在一定程度上
能自行修復。
07:31
If you experience a catastrophic loss,
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如果你經歷了一次災難性的打擊,
07:34
and you feel terrible,
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你感覺非常糟糕,
07:35
and six months later you can barely function at all,
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六個月之後依然無法正常生活,
07:38
then it's probably a depression that was triggered
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那麼可能就是一種憂鬱
被災難性的情形所觸發了。
07:41
by the catastrophic circumstances.
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07:43
The trajectory tells us a great deal.
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這個分析軌跡告訴我們很多訊息。
07:47
People think of depression as being just sadness.
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人們認為憂鬱只是難過。
07:50
It's much, much too much sadness,
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只是太多太多的難過,
07:52
much too much grief
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太多太多的悲傷,
07:54
at far too slight a cause.
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因為微不足道的事情而起。
07:57
As I set out to understand depression,
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當我開始了解憂鬱,
08:00
and to interview people who had experienced it,
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採訪了經歷過憂鬱的人們,
08:02
I found that there were people who seemed, on the surface,
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我發現有些人
表面上看起來
08:06
to have what sounded like relatively mild depression
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似乎有輕微的憂鬱,
他們卻因此完全喪失了行為能力。
08:10
who were nonetheless utterly disabled by it.
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08:13
And there were other people who had what sounded
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另外一些人,
08:15
as they described it like terribly severe depression
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根據他們的描述,
有非常嚴重的憂鬱,
08:18
who nonetheless had good lives
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卻能在憂鬱的間隙
08:20
in the interstices between their depressive episodes.
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過著不錯的生活。
08:23
And I set out to find out what it is that causes some people
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我開始著手研究,
為什麼有些人
08:27
to be more resilient than other people.
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比另一些人有更好的復元能力。
08:30
What are the mechanisms that allow people to survive?
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是什麼機制
讓人得以倖存?
08:33
And I went out and I interviewed person after person
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我出去採訪了一個又一個
08:36
who was suffering with depression.
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因憂鬱而受苦的人。
08:38
One of the first people I interviewed
170
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我最早採訪的某個人
將憂鬱描述為
08:41
described depression as a slower way of being dead,
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一種緩慢的死亡方式。
08:45
and that was a good thing for me to hear early on
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最初就聽到這說法對我來說是好事,
08:48
because it reminded me that that slow way of being dead
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因為它提醒了我
緩慢的死亡
08:51
can lead to actual deadness,
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可以通往真正的死亡。
08:53
that this is a serious business.
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這可是正經話。
08:55
It's the leading disability worldwide,
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憂鬱是世界上名列前茅的身心障礙,
08:58
and people die of it every day.
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每天都有人因此喪生。
09:01
One of the people I talked to when I was trying to understand this
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當我試著了解這些的時候,
我的一位採訪對象,
09:04
was a beloved friend who I had known for many years,
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也是我的摯友,
我與她相識多年。
09:08
and who had had a psychotic episode in her freshman year of college,
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在她大一的時候,
有過一次精神病發作,
09:13
and then plummeted into a horrific depression.
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之後她陷入了可怕的憂鬱。
09:16
She had bipolar illness,
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她患有雙相障礙,
09:17
or manic depression, as it was then known.
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當時也稱為躁鬱症。
09:20
And then she did very well for many years on lithium,
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經過多年的鋰治療,
她恢復得不錯。
於是到最後,
09:24
and then eventually, she was taken off her lithium
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她停止了化學治療,
09:27
to see how she would do without it,
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看看自己不治療能撐多久。
09:29
and she had another psychosis,
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然而她的精神病復發,
09:31
and then plunged into the worst depression that I had ever seen
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接著陷入了我所見過
最嚴重的憂鬱。
09:35
in which she sat in her parents' apartment,
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她坐在父母的公寓裡,
09:38
more or less catatonic, essentially without moving,
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多少有點緊張型精神分裂症, 幾乎一動也不動,
09:41
day after day after day.
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就這樣過了一天又一天。
09:43
And when I interviewed her about that experience some years later --
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多年後我採訪她,談起了這段經歷──
09:47
she's a poet and psychotherapist named Maggie Robbins --
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她叫瑪姬.羅賓 (Maggie Robbins) , 是一位詩人和精神治療師──
09:50
when I interviewed her, she said,
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當我採訪她時,她說:
09:53
"I was singing 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone,'
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「 當時我一遍一遍地唱著 《花兒都去哪兒了》,
09:57
over and over, to occupy my mind.
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滿腦子都是這首歌。
10:00
I was singing to blot out the things my mind was saying,
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我唱著歌來清除腦子裡的那個聲音,
10:03
which were, 'You are nothing. You are nobody.
198
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那個聲音說:『你什麼都不是,你一文不名。
你不配活著。』
10:08
You don't even deserve to live.'
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10:10
And that was when I really started thinking
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從那一刻起,我真的開始想要
殺死我自己。 」
10:13
about killing myself."
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10:15
You don't think in depression that you've put on a gray veil
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你憂鬱的時候,並不像是
你戴上了一個灰色面紗,
10:19
and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood.
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透過沮喪情緒的霧霾
來看待這個世界。
10:23
You think that the veil has been taken away,
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而是你認為那層快樂的面紗
已經被拿走,
10:26
the veil of happiness,
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10:27
and that now you're seeing truly.
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1937
所以現在你面對的是赤裸裸的現實。
10:30
It's easier to help schizophrenics who perceive
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幫助精神分裂症患者相對容易一些,
10:33
that there's something foreign inside of them that needs to be exorcised,
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他們知道身體裡有異物,
需要把它們弄出去。
10:37
but it's difficult with depressives,
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而對於憂鬱症患者就困難多了,
10:39
because we believe we are seeing the truth.
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因為我們相信自己看到的是現實。
10:43
But the truth lies.
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但是事實會說謊。
10:45
I became obsessed with that sentence:
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我為這句話著迷:
10:47
"But the truth lies."
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「事實會說謊。」
10:50
And I discovered, as I talked to depressive people,
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據我觀察,當我和憂鬱症患者交談時,
10:52
that they have many delusional perceptions.
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他們有許多妄想的念頭。
10:55
People will say, "No one loves me."
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他們會說:「沒人愛我。」
10:57
And you say, "I love you,
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你會說:「我愛你,
10:58
your wife loves you, your mother loves you."
218
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你的妻子愛你,你的媽媽愛你。」
11:01
You can answer that one pretty readily, at least for most people.
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你可以馬上說出這個答案,
至少大多數人是這樣。
但是憂鬱症患者還會說:
11:05
But people who are depressed will also say,
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665124
2166
11:07
"No matter what we do, we're all just going to die in the end."
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「不管我們做什麼,
最終,我們都會死去。」
11:11
Or they'll say, "There can be no true communion
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或者他們會說:「人與人之間
11:13
between two human beings.
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不可能有真正的交流。
11:15
Each of us is trapped in his own body."
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我們每個人都被困在自己的身體裡。」
11:17
To which you have to say,
225
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關於這點你會反駁說:
11:19
"That's true,
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1479
「這沒錯,
11:20
but I think we should focus right now on what to have for breakfast."
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但是我認為,我們當下應該考慮的是
早飯吃什麼。」
11:24
(Laughter)
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2161
(笑聲)
11:26
A lot of the time,
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1645
大多數時候,
11:28
what they are expressing is not illness, but insight,
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他們所表現出來的不是病症,而是思想偏執。
11:31
and one comes to think what's really extraordinary
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他們對這些問題特別在意,
11:33
is that most of us know about those existential questions
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3132
而大多數人都知道這些存在主義問題,
但是我們不會太困擾。
11:37
and they don't distract us very much.
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2044
11:39
There was a study I particularly liked
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我特別喜歡這個研究:
11:41
in which a group of depressed and a group of non-depressed people
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3743
一群憂鬱症患者
和一群非憂鬱症患者
被要求玩一個小時的電玩。
11:45
were asked to play a video game for an hour,
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2724
11:47
and at the end of the hour,
237
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一小時後問他們,
11:49
they were asked how many little monsters they thought they had killed.
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他們認為自己
殺死了多少只小怪獸。
憂鬱症組的回答通常是準確的,
11:53
The depressive group was usually accurate to within about 10 percent,
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誤差在 10% 以內。
11:57
and the non-depressed people
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而非憂鬱症組的人,
11:58
guessed between 15 and 20 times as many little monsters --
241
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4454
回答打死小怪獸的數量
比實際數目
12:03
(Laughter)
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多了 15 到 20 倍 。 ──(笑聲)──
12:04
as they had actually killed.
243
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1752
12:07
A lot of people said, when I chose to write about my depression,
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當我選擇寫下我自己的憂鬱經歷,很多人說
12:11
that it must be very difficult to be out of that closet,
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要揭開這個秘密,讓別人知道,
一定非常困難。
12:14
to have people know.
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他們說:「人們會用不同的口吻和你說話嗎?」
12:16
They said, "Do people talk to you differently?"
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2269
12:18
I said, "Yes, people talk to me differently.
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我回答:「是的,人們用不一樣的語氣和我說話。
12:20
They talk to me differently insofar
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這種不一樣表現在
12:22
as they start telling me about their experience,
250
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2667
他們會開始和我談自己的經歷,
12:24
or their sister's experience,
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1811
或者他們姐妹的經歷,
12:26
or their friend's experience.
252
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1641
或者他們朋友的經歷。
12:28
Things are different because now I know
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2198
事情和以前有所不同,因為現在我知道
12:30
that depression is the family secret that everyone has.
254
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憂鬱是每個家庭裡的秘密。
12:35
I went a few years ago to a conference,
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3626
幾年前我參加一個會議,
12:39
and on Friday of the three-day conference,
256
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2431
會議有三天,這天是週五。
12:41
one of the participants took me aside, and she said,
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3005
一名與會者把我拉到一旁,對我說:
12:44
"I suffer from depression and I'm a little embarrassed about it,
258
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6249
「我有憂鬱症,
我覺得有點不好意思,
但是我一直在服這種藥,
12:51
but I've been taking this medication,
259
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1842
12:52
and I just wanted to ask you what you think?"
260
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3114
我只想問問你的意見?」
於是我盡我所能給了她一些建議。
12:56
And so I did my best to give her such advice as I could.
261
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12:58
And then she said, "You know, my husband would never understand this.
262
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4487
然後她說:「你知道,
我丈夫永遠不會理解這些。
13:03
He's really the kind of guy to whom this wouldn't make any sense,
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3268
他就是那種認為這些都是胡說八道的人,
所以我想,嗯,希望我們的談話能保密。」
13:06
so, you know, it's just between us."
264
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2124
13:08
And I said, "Yes, that's fine."
265
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我回答:「當然沒問題。」
13:10
On Sunday of the same conference,
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週日在同一個會議上,
13:12
her husband took me aside,
267
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1876
她的丈夫把我拉到一邊,
13:14
(Laughter)
268
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1314
13:15
and he said, "My wife wouldn't think
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1761
他說:「我妻子如果知道這事,
13:17
that I was really much of a guy if she knew this,
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2311
她就不會覺得我是個男子漢,
13:19
but I've been dealing with this depression and I'm taking some medication,
271
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3758
但是我一直在對抗憂鬱,
而且在服用藥物,
13:23
and I wondered what you think?"
272
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2425
我想能否聽聽你的建議?」
13:26
They were hiding the same medication
273
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2290
他們兩個
把同樣的藥物藏在
13:28
in two different places in the same bedroom.
274
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3375
臥室不同的地方。
13:31
(Laughter)
275
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1198
於是我對他說,
13:33
And I said that I thought communication within the marriage
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2938
我認為婚姻中的溝通
13:36
might be triggering some of their problems.
277
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2048
可能引起他們的某些問題。
13:38
(Laughter)
278
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2492
(笑聲)
13:42
But I was also struck
279
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1563
不過我也震驚於
這種相互隱瞞的
13:44
by the burdensome nature of such mutual secrecy.
280
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3518
惱人天性。
13:48
Depression is so exhausting.
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1861
憂鬱令人精疲力盡,
13:50
It takes up so much of your time and energy,
282
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2946
它消耗了你那麼多的時間和精力。
13:52
and silence about it,
283
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1531
對此緘口不提,
13:54
it really does make the depression worse.
284
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2257
只會讓憂鬱更糟糕。
13:57
And then I began thinking
285
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1209
我開始考慮各種方法
13:58
about all the ways people make themselves better.
286
838509
2323
可以讓人們感覺更好。
14:00
I'd started off as a medical conservative.
287
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2461
一開始我對醫學治療較保守。
14:03
I thought there were a few kinds of therapy that worked,
288
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2634
我認為一些療法是有效的,
14:05
it was clear what they were --
289
845999
1445
它們確實有效──
14:07
there was medication,
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1500
包括藥物治療,
14:08
there were certain psychotherapies,
291
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1667
還有一些特定的心理治療,
14:10
there was possibly electroconvulsive treatment,
292
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2421
電痙攣療法也可能有效。
除此以外的都沒用。
14:13
and that everything else was nonsense.
293
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2589
14:15
But then I discovered something.
294
855741
1928
但是後來我發現,
14:17
If you have brain cancer,
295
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1633
如果你得了腦癌,
14:19
and you say that standing on your head for 20 minutes every morning
296
859350
3188
而且你認為每天早上
倒立 20 分鐘能讓你感覺好些,
14:22
makes you feel better,
297
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1153
14:23
it may make you feel better, but you still have brain cancer,
298
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2978
這可能讓你感覺好一些,
但是你仍然會有腦癌。
14:26
and you'll still probably die from it.
299
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2073
你還是有可能因此死去。
14:29
But if you say that you have depression,
300
869387
2286
不過如果你說你得了憂鬱症,
14:31
and standing on your head for 20 minutes every day
301
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2340
然後每天倒立 20 分鐘
讓你感覺好些,那麼這是有效的。
14:34
makes you feel better, then it's worked,
302
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2196
14:36
because depression is an illness of how you feel,
303
876281
2441
因為憂鬱是一種關於感受的疾病。
14:38
and if you feel better,
304
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1330
如果你感覺好一點了,
14:40
then you are effectively not depressed anymore.
305
880100
2559
那麼你就不會那麼憂鬱了。
所以我開始對無數的替代療法
14:43
So I became much more tolerant
306
883112
2087
抱有更加寬容的看法。
14:45
of the vast world of alternative treatments.
307
885223
2388
14:47
And I get letters, I get hundreds of letters
308
887936
2312
我收到來信,多達幾百封的來信。
14:50
from people writing to tell me about what's worked for them.
309
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2810
人們來信告訴我,什麼樣的療法對他們有效。
今天有人在後臺問我關於
14:53
Someone was asking me backstage today about meditation.
310
893106
3565
藥物治療的事情。
14:56
My favorite of the letters that I got was the one that came from a woman
311
896695
3672
我最喜歡的一封來信
是來自一位女士。
15:00
who wrote and said that she had tried therapy, medication,
312
900391
2921
她說她嘗試過心理治療,
也嘗試過藥物治療, 嘗試了幾乎所有的治療方式。
15:03
she had tried pretty much everything,
313
903336
1830
她找到一個治療方法希望我能告訴全世界,
15:05
and she had found a solution and hoped I would tell the world,
314
905190
2906
那就是用紗線做些小東西。
15:08
and that was making little things from yarn.
315
908120
3572
15:11
(Laughter)
316
911716
2893
(笑聲)
15:14
She sent me some of them.
317
914633
1536
她還寄給我一些她的作品。(笑聲)
15:16
(Laughter)
318
916193
2030
15:18
And I'm not wearing them right now.
319
918247
1865
我今天並沒有把它們戴在身上,
15:20
(Laughter)
320
920136
1150
15:21
I suggested to her that she also should look up
321
921845
2491
我建議她還應該去醫院,
15:24
obsessive compulsive disorder in the DSM.
322
924360
3406
檢查一下是否得了強迫症。
15:28
And yet, when I went to look at alternative treatments,
323
928979
2690
然而,當我去了解各種療法的時候,
15:31
I also gained perspective on other treatments.
324
931693
2428
我也對其它療法有了新看法。
15:34
I went through a tribal exorcism in Senegal
325
934605
2718
我在塞內加爾參加了一次部落驅魔,
15:37
that involved a great deal of ram's blood
326
937347
1989
裡面還有很多公羊的血,
15:39
and that I'm not going to detail right now,
327
939360
2038
這裡我就不描述細節了。
15:41
but a few years afterwards I was in Rwanda,
328
941422
2000
但是多年之後,我在盧旺達
15:43
working on a different project,
329
943446
1897
做另一個計畫。
15:45
and I happened to describe my experience to someone,
330
945367
2585
我湊巧把自己的經歷告訴某個人,
15:47
and he said,
331
947976
1159
他說:「嗯,你知道,
15:49
"Well, that's West Africa, and we're in East Africa,
332
949159
2458
那裡是西非,我們這兒是東非,
15:51
and our rituals are in some ways very different,
333
951641
2257
我們的儀式在一些方面很不同,
15:53
but we do have some rituals
334
953922
1301
不過我們確實有一些儀式
15:55
that have something in common with what you're describing."
335
955247
2800
內容和你描述的相同。」
我回答說「哦。」然後他說:「是的。」
15:58
And he said,
336
958071
1167
15:59
"But we've had a lot of trouble with Western mental health workers,
337
959262
3211
他又說:「不過西方的心理工作者 讓我們很苦惱,
尤其是大屠殺之後來的那些心理醫生。」
16:02
especially the ones who came right after the genocide."
338
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2618
我問:「你對他們有什麼意見嗎?」
16:05
I said, "What kind of trouble did you have?"
339
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2050
他回答:「嗯,
16:07
And he said, "Well, they would do this bizarre thing.
340
967213
3752
他們做一些古怪的事。
16:10
They didn't take people out in the sunshine
341
970989
2048
他們不帶人們去陽光下,
那裡才讓人感覺舒服。
16:13
where you begin to feel better.
342
973061
1489
16:14
They didn't include drumming or music to get people's blood going.
343
974574
3152
他們不用鼓聲或者音樂使人血脈沸騰,
16:17
They didn't involve the whole community.
344
977750
1906
他們不動員整個社區的人,
16:19
They didn't externalize the depression as an invasive spirit.
345
979680
3236
他們不把憂鬱看做侵略性的幽靈
進行驅逐。
16:22
Instead what they did was they took people one at a time into dingy little rooms
346
982940
5013
相反的是,他們把人們一個個
帶到昏暗的小屋子裡,
16:27
and had them talk for an hour
347
987977
1381
跟他們談上一個小時,
16:29
about bad things that had happened to them."
348
989382
2144
談論發生在他們身上的悲慘故事。」
16:31
(Laughter)
349
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2043
(笑聲)(鼓掌)
16:33
(Applause)
350
993617
3369
16:37
He said, "We had to ask them to leave the country."
351
997010
2429
他說:「我們不得不要求他們離境。」
16:39
(Laughter)
352
999463
2942
(笑聲)
16:42
Now at the other end of alternative treatments,
353
1002429
2578
談到另一種替代療法,
我和大家說說 法蘭克 (Frank Russakoff) 的故事。
16:45
let me tell you about Frank Russakoff.
354
1005031
2095
法蘭克得了非常糟糕的憂鬱症,
16:47
Frank Russakoff had the worst depression perhaps that I've ever seen in a man.
355
1007150
5702
也許是我所見過最嚴重的病患。
16:52
He was constantly depressed.
356
1012876
1969
他一直處於憂鬱狀態。
16:54
He was, when I met him,
357
1014869
1445
我遇到他時,
16:56
at a point at which every month, he would have electroshock treatment.
358
1016338
3806
他每個月都要接受電擊治療,
17:00
Then he would feel sort of disoriented for a week.
359
1020168
2551
之後一週他會感覺茫然迷惘,
17:02
Then he would feel okay for a week.
360
1022743
1779
下一週他會覺得舒服一些,
17:04
Then he would have a week of going downhill.
361
1024546
2094
再下週他就會墜入谷底,
17:06
And then he would have another electroshock treatment.
362
1026664
2590
那時他就會再做一次電擊治療。
我遇到他時,他告訴我:
17:09
And he said to me when I met him,
363
1029278
1573
17:10
"It's unbearable to go through my weeks this way.
364
1030875
2365
「我無法忍受這樣一週一週的循環。
我不能繼續這樣下去,
17:13
I can't go on this way,
365
1033264
1447
17:14
and I've figured out how I'm going to end it
366
1034735
2110
我已經想好了怎麼結束這一切,
17:16
if I don't get better."
367
1036869
1333
如果我不能好起來的話。
17:18
"But," he said to me, "I heard about a protocol at Mass General
368
1038226
4102
但是,我聽說在麻省總醫院
有一項醫療實驗
17:22
for a procedure called a cingulotomy, which is a brain surgery,
369
1042352
3222
叫做扣帶回切開術,是一種腦部手術,
17:25
and I think I'm going to give that a try."
370
1045598
2269
我想去試試看。」
17:27
And I remember being amazed at that point to think that someone
371
1047891
3293
我記得當時自己很吃驚,
想到他這個人
17:31
who clearly had so many bad experiences
372
1051208
2997
有過那麼多悲慘的經歷,
17:34
with so many different treatments
373
1054229
2136
用了那麼多不同的療法,
17:36
still had buried in him, somewhere, enough optimism
374
1056389
3040
在他內心某處依然懷有一種樂觀天性,
17:39
to reach out for one more.
375
1059453
1785
支撐著他再試一次。
17:41
And he had the cingulotomy, and it was incredibly successful.
376
1061760
4197
他做了扣帶回切開手術,
出乎意料地成功。
17:45
He's now a friend of mine.
377
1065981
1612
他現在是我的朋友,
17:47
He has a lovely wife and two beautiful children.
378
1067617
3325
有一個可愛的妻子和兩個漂亮的孩子。
17:50
He wrote me a letter the Christmas after the surgery,
379
1070966
2925
術後的聖誕節他寫了一封信給我,
17:53
and he said,
380
1073915
1165
他說:
17:55
"My father sent me two presents this year,
381
1075104
2603
「今年我父親寄了兩個聖誕禮物給我,
17:57
First, a motorized CD rack from The Sharper Image
382
1077731
2527
第一個禮物是夏珀影像的 唱片電動收藏架。
18:00
that I didn't really need,
383
1080282
1398
我並不很需要這個,
18:01
but I knew he was giving it to me to celebrate
384
1081704
2237
但是我明白,他送我這個是為了
18:03
the fact that I'm living on my own and have a job I seem to love.
385
1083965
3249
慶祝我獨立生活,
並且有了一份自己還算喜歡的工作。
18:07
And the other present was a photo of my grandmother,
386
1087635
3241
另一份禮物
是一張我祖母的照片。
18:10
who committed suicide.
387
1090900
1476
我祖母是自殺去世的。
18:12
As I unwrapped it, I began to cry,
388
1092955
2905
當我拆開包裝的時候,我哭了。
18:15
and my mother came over and said,
389
1095884
1857
我母親走過來問我:
18:17
'Are you crying because of the relatives you never knew?'
390
1097765
2992
「你是因為沒有見過她才哭的嗎?」
我回答:「我哭是因為 她得了跟我一樣的病。」
18:21
And I said, 'She had the same disease I have.'
391
1101162
3548
18:25
I'm crying now as I write to you.
392
1105242
2612
寫給你這封信的時候,我正在流淚。
18:27
It's not that I'm so sad, but I get overwhelmed,
393
1107878
3287
不是因為悲傷,而是我無法承受。
18:31
I think, because I could have killed myself,
394
1111189
2197
我想我差點就會自殺,
18:33
but my parents kept me going, and so did the doctors,
395
1113410
3428
但是我的父母讓我挺過來了,
還有醫生們也幫助我,
18:36
and I had the surgery.
396
1116862
1830
讓我做了手術。
18:38
I'm alive and grateful.
397
1118716
2082
我活了下來,充滿感激。
18:41
We live in the right time, even if it doesn't always feel like it."
398
1121531
4601
我生在一個美好的時代,
雖然不是每時每刻感覺都美好。」
18:47
I was struck by the fact that depression
399
1127856
1919
讓我震驚的是,憂鬱症廣泛地
18:49
is broadly perceived to be a modern, Western, middle-class thing,
400
1129799
5006
被看做是一種
現代西方世界中產階級的產物。
18:54
and I went to look at how it operated in a variety of other contexts,
401
1134829
4131
於是我開始觀察憂鬱症
在不同情境下的表現方式。
18:58
and one of the things I was most interested in
402
1138984
2191
其中我最感興趣的是
19:01
was depression among the indigent.
403
1141199
1915
生活貧苦的憂鬱症患者。
所以我開始嘗試研究,
19:03
And so I went out to try to look
404
1143138
1548
19:04
at what was being done for poor people with depression.
405
1144710
2753
了解窮人如何治療憂鬱症。
19:07
And what I discovered is that poor people
406
1147487
2127
我發現窮人
19:09
are mostly not being treated for depression.
407
1149638
2528
幾乎都沒有得到憂鬱症的治療。
憂鬱症是一種基因缺陷,
19:12
Depression is the result of a genetic vulnerability,
408
1152190
2674
19:14
which is presumably evenly distributed in the population,
409
1154888
3350
它大致上平均分佈於人群中。
19:18
and triggering circumstances,
410
1158262
1713
在窮人身上,
19:19
which are likely to be more severe for people who are impoverished.
411
1159999
3754
憂鬱症的情況
可能會更為嚴重。
19:23
And yet it turns out that if you have a really lovely life
412
1163777
3503
然而如果你有美好的人生,
但卻總是不開心,
19:27
but feel miserable all the time,
413
1167304
1582
19:28
you think, "Why do I feel like this?
414
1168910
1786
你會想:「我為什麼感到不開心?
19:30
I must have depression."
415
1170720
1269
我肯定是憂鬱了。」
19:32
And you set out to find treatment for it.
416
1172013
2136
於是你到處尋找治療方法。
但是如果你的生活一團糟,
19:34
But if you have a perfectly awful life,
417
1174173
1932
19:36
and you feel miserable all the time,
418
1176129
1743
你總是感到不開心,
19:37
the way you feel is commensurate with your life,
419
1177896
3010
那麼你的感受和生活狀態是相符的。
19:40
and it doesn't occur to you to think,
420
1180930
1855
你就不會想:
19:42
"Maybe this is treatable."
421
1182809
1537
「也許這病醫得好。」
19:44
And so we have an epidemic in this country
422
1184370
3202
所以我們國家的低收入人群中,
19:47
of depression among impoverished people
423
1187596
2658
憂鬱症像傳染病一樣到處蔓延,
19:50
that's not being picked up and that's not being treated
424
1190278
2572
卻沒有被關注和治療。
19:52
and that's not being addressed,
425
1192874
1948
這個問題一直沒有解決,
19:54
and it's a tragedy of a grand order.
426
1194846
2071
變成了一個巨大的悲劇。
19:57
And so I found an academic
427
1197219
1600
我找到一位學者,
19:58
who was doing a research project in slums outside of D.C.,
428
1198843
3225
她在華盛頓特區外圍的貧民窟裡
進行一項研究。
20:02
where she picked up women who had come in for other health problems
429
1202092
3143
她挑出一些因為患其它疾病而就醫的女性,
20:05
and diagnosed them with depression,
430
1205259
1755
診斷出她們有憂鬱症後,
為她們提供了六個月的實驗計劃。
20:07
and then provided six months of the experimental protocol.
431
1207038
3072
20:10
One of them, Lolly, came in,
432
1210134
2305
其中的一位叫羅莉,
20:12
and this is what she said the day she came in.
433
1212463
2273
這是她第一天來看病時的陳述。
她是一位女性,順帶一提。
20:15
She said, and she was a woman, by the way, who had seven children.
434
1215069
4565
她有七個孩子,她說:
20:19
She said, "I used to have a job but I had to give it up
435
1219658
2785
「我以前有份工作,但是我不得不辭職。
20:22
because I couldn't go out of the house.
436
1222467
2215
因為我無法走出家門。
我和我的孩子無話可說,
20:25
I have nothing to say to my children.
437
1225134
1940
20:27
In the morning, I can't wait for them to leave,
438
1227447
2482
早上,我巴不得他們都快點離開上學去。
20:29
and then I climb in bed and pull the covers over my head,
439
1229953
3202
然後我就爬到床上,用被子蒙住腦袋。
下午三點他們就回家了,
20:33
and three o'clock when they come home,
440
1233179
1875
時間過得超快。」
20:35
it just comes so fast."
441
1235078
1442
20:36
She said, "I've been taking a lot of Tylenol,
442
1236544
2294
她說:「我已經吃了很多泰諾,
20:38
anything I can take so that I can sleep more.
443
1238862
2503
吃各種藥,好讓自己多睡一會。
20:41
My husband has been telling me I'm stupid, I'm ugly.
444
1241389
3997
我丈夫一直說我又蠢又醜。
20:45
I wish I could stop the pain."
445
1245410
2754
我希望能停止痛苦。」
20:48
Well, she was brought into this experimental protocol,
446
1248935
2596
她後來被加入到實驗治療計劃。
20:51
and when I interviewed her six months later,
447
1251555
2191
六個月之後我採訪了她,
20:53
she had taken a job working in childcare
448
1253770
4225
她已經在美國海軍幼兒園工作,
20:58
for the U.S. Navy, she had left the abusive husband,
449
1258019
4050
她離開了虐待她的丈夫。
她對我說:
21:02
and she said to me,
450
1262093
2023
「我的孩子們現在開心多了。」
21:04
"My kids are so much happier now."
451
1264140
2255
21:06
She said, "There's one room in my new place for the boys
452
1266419
2682
還說:「我的新家裡
有一間房間給男孩子,一間房間給女孩子,
21:09
and one room for the girls,
453
1269125
1887
但是到了晚上,他們都會來到我的床頭。
21:11
but at night, they're just all up on my bed,
454
1271036
2339
21:13
and we're doing homework all together and everything.
455
1273399
2588
我們一起做功課,一起做每件事。
21:16
One of them wants to be a preacher,
456
1276011
1674
我有個兒子想當牧師,
21:17
one of them wants to be a firefighter,
457
1277709
1893
還有一個兒子想做個消防員,
21:19
and one of the girls says she's going to be a lawyer.
458
1279626
2700
其中一個女兒說她以後會當個律師。
21:22
They don't cry like they used to,
459
1282350
2204
他們不再像過去一樣哭泣,
21:24
and they don't fight like they did.
460
1284578
1810
也不像過去一樣打架。
如今我只需要我的孩子們就夠了。
21:27
That's all I need now, is my kids.
461
1287144
2825
21:30
Things keep on changing,
462
1290826
1945
一切都不斷變化,
21:32
the way I dress, the way I feel, the way I act.
463
1292795
4376
我的穿著、我的情緒、我的行為都變了。
21:37
I can go outside not being afraid anymore,
464
1297909
3801
我不再畏懼出門,
21:41
and I don't think those bad feelings are coming back,
465
1301734
3488
我想那些壞情緒再也不會回來了。
這多虧了米蘭達醫生。
21:45
and if it weren't for Dr. Miranda and that,
466
1305246
2936
不然我還待在家裡蒙頭大睡。
21:48
I would still be at home with the covers pulled over my head,
467
1308206
3522
21:51
if I were still alive at all.
468
1311752
1853
前提是我還活著。
我向上帝禱告,賜我一個天使吧,
21:54
I asked the Lord to send me an angel,
469
1314097
3506
21:57
and He heard my prayers."
470
1317627
1777
衪真的聽到了我的祈禱。」
我真的被這些經歷深深打動。
22:02
I was really moved by these experiences,
471
1322308
2980
22:05
and I decided that I wanted to write about them
472
1325312
2515
我決定寫下這些,
22:07
not only in a book I was working on, but also in an article,
473
1327851
2817
不僅僅寫在我的書中,
還要寫一篇文章。
22:10
and I got a commission from The New York Times Magazine
474
1330692
2579
我從紐約時代雜誌得到一份約稿,
寫寫低收入者的憂鬱情況。
22:13
to write about depression among the indigent.
475
1333295
2119
我交出了稿件,
22:15
And I turned in my story,
476
1335438
1237
22:16
and my editor called me and said, "We really can't publish this."
477
1336699
3460
我的編輯打電話告訴我:
「我們可不能發表這個。」
我問:「為什麼不行?」
22:20
And I said, "Why not?"
478
1340668
1159
22:21
And she said, "It just is too far-fetched.
479
1341851
2071
她回答說:「這故事太勉強了。
22:23
These people who are sort of at the very bottom rung of society
480
1343946
3663
這些人處於社會最底層,
22:27
and then they get a few months of treatment
481
1347633
2015
然後他們接受了幾個月的治療,
22:29
and they're virtually ready to run Morgan Stanley?
482
1349672
2373
接著就能去管理摩根斯坦利了? (Morgan Stanley:知名投資公司)
這太沒說服力了。」
22:32
It's just too implausible."
483
1352069
1516
她說:「我從來沒聽過這種事情。」
22:34
She said, "I've never even heard of anything like it."
484
1354013
2581
22:36
And I said, "The fact that you've never heard of it
485
1356618
2453
我回答:「你沒有聽過這樣的事情,
正說明了這是條新聞。」
22:39
is an indication that it is news."
486
1359095
2103
22:41
(Laughter)
487
1361907
4023
(笑聲)(掌聲)
22:45
(Applause)
488
1365954
3339
22:49
"And you are a news magazine."
489
1369317
2117
「而你們可是一家新聞雜誌社。」
22:51
So after a certain amount of negotiation, they agreed to it.
490
1371950
3060
經過一些交涉協商,
他們同意發表。
22:55
But I think a lot of what they said was connected in some strange way
491
1375034
3886
之後我想了很多,雜誌社的想法
在某個詭異的層面上 跟另一個觀點雷同,
22:58
to this distaste that people still have for the idea of treatment,
492
1378944
3581
即人們依然對治療憂鬱症
覺得反感。
23:02
the notion that somehow if we went out
493
1382549
1858
如果我們去貧窮地區
23:04
and treated a lot of people in indigent communities,
494
1384431
2823
大規模治療人們的憂鬱症,
23:07
that would be exploitative,
495
1387278
1856
這會是一件具有剝削意義的事情,
23:09
because we would be changing them.
496
1389158
1698
因為我們將會改造他們。
23:10
There is this false moral imperative that seems to be all around us,
497
1390880
3807
似乎所有的人
都有一種錯誤的道德約束,
23:14
that treatment of depression,
498
1394711
2108
認為憂鬱症的治療,
23:16
the medications and so on, are an artifice,
499
1396843
2275
包括藥物和其他治療,都是人工的、
23:19
and that it's not natural.
500
1399142
2323
而不是自然的過程。
23:21
And I think that's very misguided.
501
1401489
2943
我想這想法是非常誤導人的。
23:24
It would be natural for people's teeth to fall out,
502
1404456
3333
按照自然規律, 人的牙齒應該逐漸掉落,
23:27
but there is nobody militating against toothpaste,
503
1407813
3188
但是沒人會反對使用牙膏,
23:31
at least not in my circles.
504
1411025
1470
至少我身邊沒人反對。
23:33
People then say,
505
1413915
1244
接著人們會說:「那麼,
23:35
"But isn't depression part of what people are supposed to experience?
506
1415183
3261
憂鬱症難道不是人們應該經歷的過程嗎?
憂鬱難道不是我們演化的結果嗎?
23:38
Didn't we evolve to have depression?
507
1418468
1732
它不是個性的一部分嗎?」
23:40
Isn't it part of your personality?"
508
1420224
1751
23:41
To which I would say, mood is adaptive.
509
1421999
2439
對此我想說的是, 情緒是可以適應調整的。
23:44
Being able to have sadness and fear
510
1424462
3077
我們能夠感受悲傷、害怕、
23:47
and joy and pleasure
511
1427563
1906
快樂、愉悅,
23:49
and all of the other moods that we have, that's incredibly valuable.
512
1429493
3755
和其它所有的情緒,
這彌足珍貴。
23:53
And major depression
513
1433272
1914
當這個感覺系統失靈的時候,
23:55
is something that happens when that system gets broken.
514
1435210
3362
嚴重的憂鬱症就出現了,
23:58
It's maladaptive.
515
1438596
1604
這是情緒上無法適應。
24:00
People will come to me and say,
516
1440224
1615
人們來找我,跟我說:
24:01
"I think, though, if I just stick it out for another year,
517
1441863
2802
「即使如此,我想如果能再堅持一年,
24:04
I think I can just get through this."
518
1444689
1853
我就能好起來。」
24:06
And I always say to them, "You may get through it,
519
1446566
2524
我總是這樣回答他們: 「你可能會好起來,
但是你的 37 歲無法再來一次。
24:09
but you'll never be 37 again.
520
1449114
2190
24:11
Life is short, and that's a whole year you're talking about giving up.
521
1451733
3709
人生短暫,你打算放棄
這整整一年,
24:15
Think it through."
522
1455982
1151
你再想想吧。」
24:17
It's a strange poverty of the English language,
523
1457694
2648
英語其實貧瘠得有點怪,
24:20
and indeed of many other languages,
524
1460366
2084
實際上很多其它語言也是如此,
24:22
that we use this same word, depression,
525
1462474
2370
我們用同一個詞(depression:沮喪)
24:24
to describe how a kid feels when it rains on his birthday,
526
1464868
3714
來形容小孩在
過生日那天碰到下雨的心情。
24:28
and to describe how somebody feels the minute before they commit suicide.
527
1468606
4359
同時也用這個詞來形容人們
自殺前一分鐘的心情。
24:33
People say to me, "Well, is it continuous with normal sadness?"
528
1473495
3006
人們問我:「那麼,憂鬱是不是連續的悲傷?」
24:36
And I say, in a way it's continuous with normal sadness.
529
1476525
3107
我回答在某種意義上, 憂鬱就是長時間的悲傷。
24:39
There is a certain amount of continuity,
530
1479656
2174
悲傷和憂鬱之間有一定的連續性。
24:41
but it's the same way there's continuity
531
1481854
1937
但是兩者的連續性,就像是
24:43
between having an iron fence outside your house
532
1483815
2206
悲傷就像是你家院子裡的鐵柵欄
24:46
that gets a little rust spot
533
1486045
1420
有點鏽斑,
24:47
that you have to sand off and do a little repainting,
534
1487489
2598
於是你必須打砂紙和重新上點漆。
24:50
and what happens if you leave the house for 100 years
535
1490111
2828
憂鬱則像是如果你離家 100 年之後,
24:52
and it rusts through until it's only a pile of orange dust.
536
1492963
3799
鐵柵欄從裡到外鏽到只剩下
一堆橘色粉末。
而就是那堆橘色粉末,
24:57
And it's that orange dust spot,
537
1497082
1853
24:58
that orange dust problem,
538
1498959
1765
那堆橘色的麻煩
25:00
that's the one we're setting out to address.
539
1500748
2586
就是我們要解決的問題。
所以現在人們問:
25:04
So now people say,
540
1504040
2214
「你吃了那些讓你快樂的藥,感覺開心嗎?」
25:06
"You take these happy pills, and do you feel happy?"
541
1506278
2679
25:08
And I don't.
542
1508981
1190
不,我不會開心。
25:10
But I don't feel sad about having to eat lunch,
543
1510594
2968
但是我不再為了得吃午飯而沮喪,
25:13
and I don't feel sad about my answering machine,
544
1513586
2841
不再因為電話答錄機而難過,
25:16
and I don't feel sad about taking a shower.
545
1516451
2198
也不會因為要洗澡而煩惱。
25:19
I feel more, in fact, I think,
546
1519324
2603
實際上,我想我能感受到更多。
25:21
because I can feel sadness without nullity.
547
1521951
2406
因為我可以感覺到傷心,但不空虛。
25:24
I feel sad about professional disappointments,
548
1524704
4206
我因為工作上的不順心而難過,
25:28
about damaged relationships,
549
1528934
2284
因為破碎的愛情而傷心,
25:31
about global warming.
550
1531242
1517
因為全球暖化而傷心,
25:33
Those are the things that I feel sad about now.
551
1533114
2701
現在這些事情讓我感到悲傷。
25:35
And I said to myself, well, what is the conclusion?
552
1535839
2710
我問自己,那麼結論是什麼呢?
25:38
How did those people who have better lives
553
1538573
2537
那些生活優渥、 病情更加嚴重的憂鬱症患者
25:41
even with bigger depression manage to get through?
554
1541134
2530
是怎麼熬過去的?
25:43
What is the mechanism of resilience?
555
1543964
2151
挺過去的方法是什麼呢?
25:46
And what I came up with over time
556
1546583
1962
時間流逝,我想到的是,
25:48
was that the people who deny their experience,
557
1548569
2826
那些否定自己經歷的人,
25:51
and say, "I was depressed a long time ago,
558
1551419
2016
他們會說:「很久以前我憂鬱了。
25:53
I never want to think about it again,
559
1553459
1771
我不想再想那些經歷,
25:55
I'm not going to look at it
560
1555254
1294
我不想再看它,
25:56
and I'm just going to get on with my life,"
561
1556572
2023
我只想繼續我的生活。」
25:58
ironically, those are the people who are most enslaved by what they have.
562
1558619
4598
諷刺的是,那些人
往往被自己的經歷所困。
26:03
Shutting out the depression strengthens it.
563
1563241
2198
迴避憂鬱只會讓它更強大。
26:05
While you hide from it, it grows.
564
1565780
2690
越逃離,它就越強大。
能夠好起來的人,
26:09
And the people who do better
565
1569185
2538
26:11
are the ones who are able to tolerate the fact that they have this condition.
566
1571747
4553
他們能夠接受事實,
承認自己的症狀。
那些可以接納自己有憂鬱症的人
26:16
Those who can tolerate their depression are the ones who achieve resilience.
567
1576324
3872
會康復起來。
26:20
So Frank Russakoff said to me,
568
1580516
1612
法蘭克後來告訴我:
26:22
"If I had a do-over, I suppose I wouldn't do it this way,
569
1582152
3722
「如果一切從頭來過,
我想我不會這樣做,
26:25
but in a strange way, I'm grateful for what I've experienced.
570
1585898
3468
但是很奇怪,我對自己的經歷
非常感激。
26:29
I'm glad to have been in the hospital 40 times.
571
1589390
3324
我很高興自己住了 40 次醫院,
這些經歷教會了我什麼是愛,
26:33
It taught me so much about love,
572
1593023
2611
26:35
and my relationship with my parents and my doctors
573
1595658
2921
我和父母、醫生之間的關係
26:38
has been so precious to me, and will be always."
574
1598603
3546
對我而言非常珍貴,一輩子都受用。」
26:42
And Maggie Robbins said,
575
1602772
1902
瑪姬曾說:
26:44
"I used to volunteer in an AIDS clinic,
576
1604698
2965
「我以前在愛滋診所裡擔任志工。
26:47
and I would just talk and talk and talk,
577
1607687
2990
我會滔滔不絕地
26:50
and the people I was dealing with weren't very responsive, and I thought,
578
1610701
4033
對著我負責的病患說話。
他們沒太大反應,於是我想:
26:54
'That's not very friendly or helpful of them.'"
579
1614758
2496
「他們真不友善,也不配合。」
26:57
(Laughter)
580
1617278
1240
26:58
"And then I realized,
581
1618542
1618
後來我意識到,
27:00
I realized that they weren't going to do more
582
1620184
2143
我意識到他們無法做到更多,
27:02
than make those first few minutes of small talk.
583
1622351
2483
除了完成剛開始那幾分鐘的閒談。
27:04
It was simply going to be an occasion
584
1624858
2039
這只是一個機會,讓他們看到,
27:06
where I didn't have AIDS and I wasn't dying,
585
1626921
2949
雖然我沒有愛滋病,也不會死去,
27:09
but could tolerate the fact that they did
586
1629894
2878
但是我可以接受他們的疾病,
27:12
and they were.
587
1632796
1215
還有他們正在死去的事實。
27:14
Our needs are our greatest assets.
588
1634503
3143
我們的需求是我們最寶貴的財富。
我發現自己學會了付出
27:18
It turns out I've learned to give all the things I need."
589
1638202
4165
自己擁有的一切。」
27:24
Valuing one's depression does not prevent a relapse,
590
1644160
3861
正視憂鬱的價值
不能防止憂鬱的復發,
27:28
but it may make the prospect of relapse
591
1648045
2637
但是可能會使復發的結果好一些,
27:30
and even relapse itself easier to tolerate.
592
1650706
3513
甚至能讓自己更容易熬過去。
問題並不在於
27:35
The question is not so much of finding great meaning
593
1655004
3658
找尋重大的意義,或者判斷
27:38
and deciding your depression has been very meaningful.
594
1658686
2571
你的憂鬱是否很有意義。
27:41
It's of seeking that meaning and thinking, when it comes again,
595
1661281
3991
而是當憂鬱捲土重來的時候,
尋找它的意義,並想:
27:45
"This will be hellish, but I will learn something from it."
596
1665296
3317
「這會很可怕,
但是我會從中獲益。」
27:49
I have learned in my own depression
597
1669487
2240
我從自己的憂鬱中學到,
27:51
how big an emotion can be,
598
1671751
2198
情緒的力量有多大,
27:53
how it can be more real than facts,
599
1673973
3060
它甚至可以比事實更加真實。
我也發現那些經歷
27:57
and I have found that that experience
600
1677057
2729
27:59
has allowed me to experience positive emotion
601
1679810
2868
用一種更為強烈和聚焦的方式
28:02
in a more intense and more focused way.
602
1682702
2899
讓我經歷正向的情緒。
28:06
The opposite of depression is not happiness,
603
1686222
3583
憂鬱的反面不是快樂,
28:09
but vitality,
604
1689829
1310
而是活力。
28:11
and these days, my life is vital,
605
1691163
2955
現在,我的生活充滿活力,
即使在我感到難過的時候也是如此。
28:14
even on the days when I'm sad.
606
1694142
2292
28:16
I felt that funeral in my brain,
607
1696823
3115
我曾在腦中感受到那場葬禮,
28:19
and I sat next to the colossus at the edge of the world,
608
1699962
4540
我坐在一個巨人身邊,
就在世界的邊緣,
28:24
and I have discovered something inside of myself
609
1704526
3887
我發現我的體內
有個東西,
28:28
that I would have to call a soul
610
1708437
2064
我稱之為靈魂。
28:30
that I had never formulated until that day 20 years ago
611
1710525
3513
20 年前它從未成型,
28:34
when hell came to pay me a surprise visit.
612
1714062
3301
直到地獄冷不防地拜訪我。
28:38
I think that while I hated being depressed
613
1718841
3813
我想即使我痛恨自己的憂鬱,
28:42
and would hate to be depressed again,
614
1722678
2502
痛恨又被憂鬱纏上,
28:45
I've found a way to love my depression.
615
1725204
2063
我還是找到了一種方法讓自己愛上它。
28:47
I love it because it has forced me to find and cling to joy.
616
1727894
4183
我愛自己的憂鬱,因為它迫使我
尋找和抓緊快樂。
28:52
I love it because each day I decide,
617
1732681
3589
我愛我的憂鬱,因為每天,我都決定
28:56
sometimes gamely,
618
1736294
1389
去抓住活下去的理由。
28:57
and sometimes against the moment's reason,
619
1737707
2545
雖然有時候不拘小節,
29:00
to cleave to the reasons for living.
620
1740276
2139
有時候不合時宜。
29:02
And that, I think, is a highly privileged rapture.
621
1742978
3677
我想,這真是天賜的無上喜悅。
謝謝大家。
29:07
Thank you.
622
1747076
1256
29:08
(Applause)
623
1748356
4001
(掌聲)
29:12
Thank you.
624
1752381
1151
29:13
(Applause)
625
1753556
2372
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