Depression, the secret we share | Andrew Solomon

6,067,391 views

2013-12-18 ใƒป TED

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Depression, the secret we share | Andrew Solomon

6,067,391 views ใƒป 2013-12-18

TED

ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

ืžืชืจื’ื: Shlomo Adam ืžื‘ืงืจ: Ido Dekkers
00:15
"I felt a Funeral, in my Brain,
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ื”ึดืจึฐื’ึผึทืฉืึฐืชึผึดื™ ื”ึทืœึฐื•ึธื™ึธื” ื‘ึผึฐืžึนื—ึดื™
00:19
and Mourners to and fro
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ื•ึผืžึดืชึฐืึทื‘ึผึฐืœึดื™ื ืึธื ึถื” ื•ึฐืึธื ึธื”
00:22
kept treading -- treading -- till [it seemed]
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ื“ึธืจึฐื›ื•ึผ ื“ึธืจื•ึนืšึฐ-ื“ึธืจื•ึนืšึฐ โ€“ ืขึทื“ ื ึดื“ึฐืžึธื”
ื›ึผึดื™ ืชึฐื‘ื•ึผื ึธืชึดื™ ื ึดืคึฐืจึถื›ึถืช-ื ึดืฉืึฐื‘ึผึธืจึถืช โ€“
00:25
that Sense was breaking through --
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00:27
And when they all were seated,
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ื•ึฐืึทื—ึฒืจึตื™ ืฉืึถื ึผึดืชึฐื™ึทืฉึผืึฐื‘ื•ึผ ื›ึผึปืœึผึธื,
00:29
a Service, like a Drum --
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ื˜ึถืงึถืก-ืึทืฉืึฐื›ึผึธื‘ึธื” ื›ึผึฐืžื•ึน ืชึนืฃ
00:31
kept beating -- beating -- till I [thought]
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ื”ึธืœึทื ื”ึธืœื•ึนื-ื”ึธืœื•ึนื โ€“ ืขึทื“ ื—ึธืฉืึทื‘ึฐืชึผึดื™
ืฉื‚ึทืจึฐืขึทืคึผึทื™ ืงื•ึนืคึฐืึดื™ื ื”ึธืœื•ึนืšึฐ ื•ึฐืงึธืคื•ึนื
00:35
my Mind was going numb --
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00:37
And then I heard them lift a Box and creak across my Soul
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ืึฒื–ึทื™ ืฉืึธืžึทืขึฐืชึผึดื™, ืžึฐืจึดื™ืžึดื™ื ืึธืจื•ึนืŸ
ื•ึฐืฉืื•ึผื‘ ื—ื•ึนืจึฐืงึดื™ื ืขึทืœ ื’ึผึทื‘ึผึตื™ ื ึดืฉืึฐืžึธืชึดื™
00:41
with those same Boots of Lead, again,
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ื‘ึผึฐื”ึธื”ึตื ืžึทื’ึผึฐืคึตื™-ืขื•ึนืคึถืจึถืช,
00:45
then Space -- began to toll,
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ื•ึฐืึธื– ื”ึดืชึฐื—ึดื™ืœ ืžึฐืœึนื-ื”ึถื—ึธืœึธืœ ืœึฐืฆึทืœึฐืฆึตืœ
00:48
As [all] the Heavens were a Bell, and Being, [but] an Ear,
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ื›ึผึฐืึดืœึผื•ึผ ื›ึผึธืœ ื”ึธืจึธืงึดื™ืขึท โ€“ ืคึผึทืขึฒืžื•ึนืŸ
ื•ึฐื”ึทื”ึฒื•ึธื™ึธื” โ€“ ื›ึผึปืœึผึธื”ึผ ืึนื–ึถืŸ ืึทื—ึทืช
00:52
and I, and Silence, some strange Race,
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ื•ึทืึฒื ึดื™ ื•ึผื“ึฐืžึธืžึธื” โ€“ ืžึดื™ืŸ ื’ึผึถื–ึทืข ื ึธื›ึฐืจึดื™
00:55
wrecked, solitary, here --
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ื˜ึธืจื•ึผืฃ, ื‘ึผึธื“ึธื“, ืคึผึนื” โ€“
00:58
[And] then a Plank in Reason, broke,
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ื•ึฐืึธื– ื ึดืฉืึฐื‘ึผึทืจ ืงึถืจึถืฉื ื‘ึผึฐืจึดืฆึฐืคึผึทืช-ืฉื‚ึดื›ึฐืœึดื™
01:01
and I fell down and down --
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ื•ึทืึฒื ึดื™ ื ึธืคึทืœึฐืชึผึดื™ ืžึทื˜ึผึธื”-ืžึทื˜ึผึธื”
01:05
and hit a World, at every plunge,
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ื•ึฐืขึดื ื›ึผึธืœ ืฆึฐืœึดื™ืœึธื” ื•ึผืฆึฐืœึดื™ืœึธื” ืคึผึธื’ึทืขึฐืชึผึดื™ ื‘ึผึฐืขื•ึนืœึธื-ืขื•ึนืœึธื
01:07
and Finished knowing -- then --"
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ื•ึฐืœึนื ื™ึธืกึทืคึฐืชึผึดื™ ื“ึทืขึทืช โ€“ ืึธื–. [ืขื‘ืจื™ืช: ืื‘ืจื”ื ืจื’ืœืกื•ืŸ]
01:12
We know depression through metaphors.
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ืื ื• ืžื›ื™ืจื™ื ืืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื“ืจืš ื“ื™ืžื•ื™ื™ื.
01:15
Emily Dickinson was able to convey it in language,
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ืืžื™ืœื™ ื“ื™ืงื™ื ืกื•ืŸ ื”ืฆืœื™ื—ื” ืœื”ื‘ื™ืขื• ื‘ืœืฉื•ืŸ ื‘ื ื™-ืื“ื,
01:19
Goya in an image.
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ื•ื’ื•ื™ื” - ื‘ืชืžื•ื ื”.
01:22
Half the purpose of art is to describe such iconic states.
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ืžื—ืฆื™ืช ืžืžื˜ืจืชื” ืฉืœ ื”ืืžื ื•ืช
ื”ื™ื ืœืชืืจ ืžืฆื‘ื™ื ืกืžืœื™ื™ื ื›ืืœื”.
01:27
As for me, I had always thought myself tough,
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ื‘ืืฉืจ ืœื™, ืชืžื™ื“ ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืขืฆืžื™ ืงืฉื•ื—,
01:31
one of the people who could survive
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ืื“ื ืฉื™ื›ื•ืœ ื”ื™ื” ืœืฉืจื•ื“,
01:33
if I'd been sent to a concentration camp.
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ืื™ืœื• ื ืฉืœื— ืœืžื—ื ื”-ืจื™ื›ื•ื–.
01:36
In 1991, I had a series of losses.
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ื‘-1991 ื—ื•ื•ื™ืชื™ ืกื“ืจื” ืฉืœ ืื•ื‘ื“ื ื™ื.
01:39
My mother died,
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ืืžื™ ื ืคื˜ืจื”,
01:41
a relationship I'd been in ended,
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ืžืขืจื›ืช-ื™ื—ืกื™ื ืฉืœื™ ื”ืกืชื™ื™ืžื”,
01:43
I moved back to the United States from some years abroad,
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ืขืงืจืชื™ ื‘ื—ื–ืจื” ืœืืจืฆื•ืช ื”ื‘ืจื™ืช ืื—ืจื™ ืžืกืคืจ ืฉื ื™ื ื‘ื—ื•"ืœ,
01:47
and I got through all of those experiences intact.
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ื•ื™ืฆืืชื™ ืžื›ืœ ื”ืžืกื•ืช ื”ืืœื” ืœืœื ืคื’ืข.
01:50
But in 1994, three years later,
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ืืš ื‘-1994, ืฉืœื•ืฉ ืฉื ื™ื ืื—ืจ-ื›ืš,
01:53
I found myself losing interest in almost everything.
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ืžืฆืืชื™ ืฉืื ื™ ืžืื‘ื“ ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ื›ืžืขื˜ ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ื•ื“ื‘ืจ.
ืœื ืจืฆื™ืชื™ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื“ื‘ืจ ืžื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื
01:58
I didn't want to do any of the things I had previously wanted to do,
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ืฉืงื•ื“ื ืœื›ืŸ ืจืฆื™ืชื™ ืœืขืฉื•ืช,
02:01
and I didn't know why.
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ื•ืœื ื™ื“ืขืชื™ ืžื“ื•ืข.
02:03
The opposite of depression is not happiness, but vitality.
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ื”ื”ื™ืคืš ืžื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
ืื™ื ื ื• ืื•ืฉืจ, ืืœื ื—ื™ื•ื ื™ื•ืช,
ื•ื”ื—ื™ื•ื ื™ื•ืช ื”ื™ื
02:09
And it was vitality
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02:10
that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.
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ืฉื›ื ืจืื” ื“ืœืคื” ืžืžื ื™ ื‘ืื•ืชื• ืจื’ืข.
02:14
Everything there was to do seemed like too much work.
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ื›ืœ ืžื” ืฉื”ื™ื” ืฆืจื™ืš ืœื”ื™ืขืฉื•ืช
ื ืจืื” ื›ื˜ื™ืจื—ื” ืจื‘ื” ืžื“ื™.
02:18
I would come home
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ื ื”ื‘ื™ืชื”,
02:20
and I would see the red light flashing on my answering machine,
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ืจื•ืื” ืืช ื”ืื•ืจ ื”ืื“ื•ื ื”ืžื”ื‘ื”ื‘ ื‘ืžืฉื™ื‘ื•ืŸ ืฉืœื™,
02:23
and instead of being thrilled to hear from my friends,
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ื•ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืœืฉืžื•ื— ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ืขื•ืช ืžื—ื‘ืจื™,
02:25
I would think,
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘:
02:27
"What a lot of people that is to have to call back."
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"ื›ืžื” ื”ืจื‘ื” ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืฆืจื™ืš ืœื”ื—ื–ื™ืจ ืœื”ื ืฆืœืฆื•ืœ!"
02:30
Or I would decide I should have lunch,
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ืื• ืฉื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžื—ืœื™ื˜ ืœืื›ื•ืœ,
02:32
and then I would think, but I'd have to get the food out
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ื•ืื– ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืฉื™ื”ื™ื” ืขืœื™ ืœื”ื•ืฆื™ื ืืช ื”ืื•ื›ืœ,
02:35
and put it on a plate
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ืœื”ื ื™ื—ื• ืขืœ ืฆืœื—ืช,
02:37
and cut it up and chew it and swallow it,
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ืœื—ืชื•ืš ืื•ืชื•, ืœืœืขื•ืก ืื•ืชื• ื•ืœื‘ืœื•ืข ืื•ืชื•,
02:41
and it felt to me like the Stations of the Cross.
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ื•ื—ืฉืชื™ ื›ืื™ืœื• ืืœื” ื”ืชื—ื ื•ืช ื‘ืžืกืขื• ืฉืœ ื”ืฆืœื‘.
02:45
And one of the things that often gets lost in discussions of depression
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ื•ืื—ื“ ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉืžืจื‘ื™ื ืœื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ื™ืŸ ื”ื›ืกืื•ืช
ื‘ื“ื™ื•ื ื™ื ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
02:49
is that you know it's ridiculous.
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ื”ื•ื ืฉืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข ืฉื–ื” ืžื’ื•ื—ืš.
02:51
You know it's ridiculous while you're experiencing it.
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ืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข ืฉื–ื” ืžื’ื•ื—ืš ื‘ืขื•ื“ืš ื—ื•ื•ื” ืืช ื–ื”.
02:54
You know that most people manage
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ืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข ืฉืจื•ื‘ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืžืฆืœื™ื—ื™ื
02:56
to listen to their messages and eat lunch
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ืœื”ืงืฉื™ื‘ ืœื”ื•ื“ืขื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื ื•ืœืื›ื•ืœ ืืจื•ื—ืช-ืฆื”ืจื™ื™ื
02:58
and organize themselves to take a shower
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ื•ืœื”ืชืืจื’ืŸ ื›ื“ื™ ืœืœื›ืช ืœื”ืชืงืœื—, ืœืฆืืช ืžื”ื“ืœืช ื”ืงื“ืžื™ืช
03:00
and go out the front door
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03:02
and that it's not a big deal,
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ื•ืฉื–ื” ืœื ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ื’ื“ื•ืœ,
03:03
and yet you are nonetheless in its grip
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ื•ืืชื” ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช ื ืชื•ืŸ ื‘ืื—ื™ื–ืชื•
03:06
and you are unable to figure out any way around it.
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ื•ืื™ื ืš ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืžืฆื•ื ืฉื•ื ื“ืจืš ืœื—ืžื•ืง ืžืžื ื•.
03:10
And so I began to feel myself doing less
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ืื– ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื”ืจื’ื™ืฉ ื›ื™ืฆื“ ืื ื™ ืขื•ืฉื” ืคื—ื•ืช
03:15
and thinking less
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ื•ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืคื—ื•ืช
03:17
and feeling less.
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ื•ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ืคื—ื•ืช.
03:19
It was a kind of nullity.
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ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืกื•ื’ ืฉืœ ื”ืชืื™ื™ื ื•ืช.
03:22
And then the anxiety set in.
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ื•ืื– ื”ื’ื™ืขื” ื”ื—ืจื“ื”.
03:24
If you told me that I'd have to be depressed for the next month,
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ืื™ืœื• ืืžืจืชื ืœื™ ืฉืขืœื™ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื‘ืžืฉืš ื”ื—ื•ื“ืฉ ื”ืงืจื•ื‘,
03:28
I would say, "As long I know it'll be over in November, I can do it."
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืขื•ื ื”: "ื›ืœ ืขื•ื“ ื‘ืจื•ืจ ืœื™ ืฉื–ื” ืขื“ ื ื•ื‘ืžื‘ืจ, ืื ื™ ืžืกื•ื’ืœ ืœื›ืš."
03:31
But if you said to me,
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ืืš ืื™ืœื• ืืžืจืชื ืœื™:
03:32
"You have to have acute anxiety for the next month,"
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"ืขืœื™ืš ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื—ืจื“ื” ืขืžื•ืงื” ื‘ืžืฉืš ื”ื—ื•ื“ืฉ ื”ืงืจื•ื‘,"
ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžืขื“ื™ืฃ ืœื—ืชื•ืš ืœืขืฆืžื™ ืืช ื”ื•ื•ืจื™ื“ื™ื ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืœืขื‘ื•ืจ ืืช ื–ื”.
03:36
I would rather slit my wrist than go through it.
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03:38
It was the feeling all the time
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ื”ื™ืชื” ื›ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ ื”ื”ืจื’ืฉื” ื”ื–ืืช,
03:40
like that feeling you have if you're walking
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ื›ืžื• ื”ื”ืจื’ืฉื” ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื›ื ื›ืฉืืชื ื”ื•ืœื›ื™ื,
03:42
and you slip or trip and the ground is rushing up at you,
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ื•ืื– ืžื—ืœื™ืงื™ื ืื• ืžื•ืขื“ื™ื ื•ื”ืงืจืงืข ืขื•ืœื” ื‘ืžื”ื™ืจื•ืช ืœืงืจืืชื›ื,
03:45
but instead of lasting half a second, the way that does,
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ืื‘ืœ ื‘ืžืงื•ื ืฉื–ื” ื™ื™ืžืฉืš ื—ืฆื™ ืฉื ื™ื”,
03:48
it lasted for six months.
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ื–ื” ื ืžืฉืš ืฉื™ืฉื” ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื.
03:50
It's a sensation of being afraid all the time
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ื–ื• ืชื—ื•ืฉื” ืฉืœ ื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืคื•ื—ื“ ื›ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ
03:53
but not even knowing what it is that you're afraid of.
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ืžื‘ืœื™ ืœื“ืขืช ืืคื™ืœื• ืžืžื”.
03:57
And it was at that point that I began to think
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ื•ื”ื™ื” ื–ื” ืื– ื›ืฉื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘
03:59
that it was just too painful to be alive,
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ืฉืคืฉื•ื˜ ืžื›ืื™ื‘ ืžื“ื™ ืœื”ื™ืฉืืจ ื‘ื—ื™ื™ื,
04:03
and that the only reason not to kill oneself
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ืฉื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ื”ื™ื—ื™ื“ื” ืœื ืœื”ืชืื‘ื“
04:06
was so as not to hurt other people.
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ื”ื™ื ืœื ืœืคื’ื•ืข ื‘ืื ืฉื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื.
04:09
And finally one day, I woke up
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ื•ื™ื•ื ืื—ื“ ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ ื”ืชืขื•ืจืจืชื™
04:12
and I thought perhaps I'd had a stroke,
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ื•ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืฉืื•ืœื™ ื—ื˜ืคืชื™ ืฉื‘ืฅ,
04:14
because I lay in bed completely frozen,
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ื›ื™ ืฉื›ื‘ืชื™ ื‘ืžื™ื˜ื” ืงืคื•ื ื›ื•ืœื™, ื›ืฉืื ื™ ืžื‘ื™ื˜ ื‘ื˜ืœืคื•ืŸ ื•ื—ื•ืฉื‘:
04:16
looking at the telephone, thinking,
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04:18
"Something is wrong and I should call for help,"
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"ืžืฉื”ื• ืœื ื‘ืกื“ืจ ื•ืขืœื™ ืœืงืจื•ื ืœืขื–ืจื”",
04:22
and I couldn't reach out my arm
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ื•ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœื”ื•ืฉื™ื˜ ืืช ื–ืจื•ืขื™,
04:24
and pick up the phone and dial.
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ืœื”ืจื™ื ืืช ื”ื˜ืœืคื•ืŸ ื•ืœื—ื™ื™ื’.
04:26
And finally, after four full hours of my lying and staring at it,
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ื•ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ, ืื—ืจื™ 4 ืฉืขื•ืช ืชืžื™ืžื•ืช ืฉืœ ืฉื›ื™ื‘ื” ื•ื‘ื”ื™ื™ื” ื‘ื•,
04:30
the phone rang,
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ื”ื˜ืœืคื•ืŸ ืฆืœืฆืœ,
04:32
and somehow I managed to pick it up,
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ื•ืื™ื›ืฉื”ื• ื”ืฆืœื—ืชื™ ืœื”ืจื™ื ืื•ืชื•,
04:34
and it was my father, and I said,
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืื‘ื™,
ื•ืื ื™ ืืžืจืชื™: "ืื ื™ ื‘ืฆืจื” ื—ืžื•ืจื”.
04:37
"I'm in serious trouble. We need to do something."
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"ืื ื• ื—ื™ื™ื‘ื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืžืฉื”ื•."
04:41
The next day I started with the medications and the therapy.
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ื‘ื™ื•ื ืœืžื—ืจืช ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืขื ื”ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช ื•ืขื ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ.
04:47
And I also started reckoning with this terrible question:
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ื•ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ื’ื ืœื”ืชืžื•ื“ื“ ืขื ื”ืฉืืœื” ื”ื ื•ืจืื” ื”ื–ื•:
04:51
If I'm not the tough person
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ืื ืื ื™ ืœื ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืก ื”ืงืฉื•ื— ืฉื”ื™ื” ืฉื•ืจื“ ืžื—ื ื”-ืจื™ื›ื•ื–,
04:53
who could have made it through a concentration camp,
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04:56
then who am I?
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ืื– ืžื™ ืื ื™?
04:57
And if I have to take medication,
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ื•ืื ืขืœื™ ืœืงื—ืช ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช,
04:59
is that medication making me more fully myself,
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ื”ืื ื”ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช ื”ื•ืคื›ื•ืช ืื•ืชื™ ืœืขืฆืžื™ ื‘ืฆื•ืจื” ืžืœืื” ื™ื•ืชืจ,
05:03
or is it making me someone else?
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ืื• ืฉืžื ื”ืŸ ื”ื•ืคื›ื•ืช ืื•ืชื™ ืœืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืื—ืจ?
05:05
And how do I feel about it if it's making me someone else?
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ื•ืื™ืš ืื ื™ ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ื‘ืงืฉืจ ืœื›ืš
ืฉืื•ืœื™ ื”ืŸ ื”ื•ืคื›ื•ืช ืื•ืชื™ ืœืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืื—ืจ?
ืฉื ื™ ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืขืžื“ื• ืœืฆื™ื“ื™ ื›ืฉื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ื‘ืžืื‘ืง ื”ื–ื”.
05:10
I had two advantages as I went into the fight.
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05:13
The first is that I knew that, objectively speaking,
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ื”ืจืืฉื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ืฉืื•ื‘ื™ื™ืงื˜ื™ื‘ื™ืช, ื™ื“ืขืชื™
05:16
I had a nice life,
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ืฉื”ื™ื• ืœื™ ื—ื™ื™ื ื™ืคื™ื,
05:17
and that if I could only get well,
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ื•ืฉืื ืจืง ืื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ื‘ืจื™ื,
05:19
there was something at the other end that was worth living for.
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ื™ืฉ ืžืฉื”ื• ื‘ืกื•ืฃ ื”ื“ืจืš ืฉืจืื•ื™ ืœื—ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœื•.
05:23
And the other was that I had access to good treatment.
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ื•ื”ืฉื ื™ ื”ื•ื ืฉื”ื™ืชื” ืœื™ ื’ื™ืฉื” ืœื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื˜ื•ื‘.
05:26
But I nonetheless emerged and relapsed,
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ืื‘ืœ ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช ื”ื™ื• ืœื™ ื”ืชืงื“ืžื•ื™ื•ืช ื•ื ืกื™ื’ื•ืช,
05:29
and emerged and relapsed,
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ื•ื”ืชืงื“ืžื•ื™ื•ืช ื•ื ืกื™ื’ื•ืช,
05:32
and emerged and relapsed,
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ื•ืขื•ื“ ื”ืชืงื“ืžื•ื™ื•ืช ื•ื ืกื™ื’ื•ืช,
05:35
and finally understood
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ื•ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ ื”ื‘ื ืชื™
05:37
I would have to be on medication and in therapy forever.
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ืฉื™ื”ื™ื” ืขืœื™ ืœืงื—ืช ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช
ื•ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื‘ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ืœื ืฆื—.
05:41
And I thought,
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ื•ืฉืืœืชื™ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™:
05:42
"But is it a chemical problem or a psychological problem?
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"ืื‘ืœ ื”ืื ื–ืืช ื‘ืขื™ื” ื›ื™ืžื™ืช ืื• ืคืกื™ื›ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ืช?
05:45
And does it need a chemical cure or a philosophical cure?"
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"ื•ื”ืื ื“ืจื•ืฉื” ืชืจื•ืคื” ื›ื™ืžื™ืช ืื• ืชืจื•ืคื” ืคื™ืœื•ืกื•ืคื™ืช?"
05:49
And I couldn't figure out which it was.
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ื•ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ ืžื” ื ื›ื•ืŸ.
05:51
And then I understood that actually,
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ื•ืื– ื”ื‘ื ืชื™ ืฉืœืžืขืฉื”,
05:54
we aren't advanced enough in either area for it to explain things fully.
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ืื™ื ื ื• ืžืชืงื“ืžื™ื ืžืกืคื™ืง ื‘ืฉื•ื ืชื—ื•ื ืžื”ื
ื›ื“ื™ ืฉื™ื•ื›ืœื• ืœื”ืกื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืžื•ื—ืœื˜.
05:58
The chemical cure and the psychological cure
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ื”ืชืจื•ืคื” ื”ื›ื™ืžื™ืช ื•ื”ืชืจื•ืคื” ื”ืคืกื™ื›ื•ืœื•ื’ื™ืช
06:01
both have a role to play,
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ืœืฉืชื™ื”ืŸ ื™ืฉ ืชืคืงื™ื“ ืฉืขืœื™ื”ืŸ ืœืžืœื,
06:03
and I also figured out that depression was something
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ื•ื”ื‘ื ืชื™ ื’ื ืฉื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ืžืฉื”ื•
ืฉืฉื–ื•ืจ ื‘ื ื• ืขืžื•ืง ื›ืœ-ื›ืš
06:07
that was braided so deep into us
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06:09
that there was no separating it from our character and personality.
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ืขื“ ืฉืื™ืŸ ืœื”ืคืจื™ื“ื•
ืžื”ืื•ืคื™ ื•ื”ืื™ืฉื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื ื•.
06:13
I want to say that the treatments we have for depression are appalling.
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ื‘ืจืฆื•ื ื™ ืœื˜ืขื•ืŸ ืฉื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
ื”ื ืžื–ืขื–ืขื™ื.
ื”ื ืื™ื ื ื™ืขื™ืœื™ื ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ.
06:18
They're not very effective.
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06:19
They're extremely costly.
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ื”ื ื™ืงืจื™ื ืขื“ ืžืื“.
06:21
They come with innumerable side effects.
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ื”ื ืžืœื•ื•ื™ื ื‘ืื™ื ืกืคื•ืจ ื”ืฉืคืขื•ืช-ืœื•ื•ืื™.
06:24
They're a disaster.
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ื”ื ื‘ื’ื“ืจ ืืกื•ืŸ.
ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ื›ื” ืืกื™ืจ-ืชื•ื“ื” ืขืœ ื›ืš ืฉืื ื™ ื—ื™ ื”ื™ื•ื,
06:26
But I am so grateful that I live now and not 50 years ago,
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ื•ืœื ืœืคื ื™ 50 ืฉื ื”,
06:30
when there would have been almost nothing to be done.
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ื›ื™ ืื– ืœื ื”ื™ื” ื›ืžืขื˜ ืฉื•ื ืคืชืจื•ืŸ.
06:33
I hope that 50 years hence,
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ืื ื™ ืžืงื•ื•ื” ืฉ-50 ืฉื ื” ืžื”ื™ื•ื,
06:36
people will hear about my treatments
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ืื ืฉื™ื ื™ืฉืžืขื• ืขืœ ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ืฉืœื™
ื•ื™ื–ื“ืขื–ืขื• ืœืžื—ืฉื‘ื” ืฉืžื™ืฉื”ื• ื ื—ืฉืฃ ืœืžื“ืข ืคืจื™ืžื™ื˜ื™ื‘ื™ ื›ื–ื”.
06:38
and be appalled that anyone endured such primitive science.
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06:42
Depression is the flaw in love.
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ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ื”ืคื’ื ื‘ืื”ื‘ื”.
06:47
If you were married to someone and thought,
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ืื ื”ื™ื™ืชื ื ืฉื•ืื™ื ืœืžื™ืฉื”ื™ ื•ื—ืฉื‘ืชื,
06:50
"Well, if my wife dies, I'll find another one,"
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"ืื ืืฉืชื™ ืชืžื•ืช, ืืžืฆื ืžื™ืฉื”ื™ ืื—ืจืช",
06:54
it wouldn't be love as we know it.
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ื–ื• ืื™ื ื” ื”ืื”ื‘ื” ืฉืื ื• ืžื›ื™ืจื™ื.
06:57
There's no such thing as love without the anticipation of loss,
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ืœื ืงื™ื™ืžืช ืื”ื‘ื” ืœืœื ื”ืฆื™ืคื™ื™ื” ืœืื•ื‘ื“ืŸ,
07:01
and that specter of despair can be the engine of intimacy.
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ื•ืื•ืชื• ืฆืœ ืฉืœ ื™ืื•ืฉ ืขืฉื•ื™ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื”ืžื ื™ืข ืœืื™ื ื˜ื™ืžื™ื•ืช.
07:08
There are three things people tend to confuse:
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ื™ืฉ 3 ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ื ื•ื˜ื™ื ืœื‘ืœื‘ืœ ื‘ื™ื ื™ื”ื:
07:11
depression, grief and sadness.
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ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ, ื™ื’ื•ืŸ ื•ืขืฆื‘ื•ืช.
07:14
Grief is explicitly reactive.
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ื”ื™ื’ื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ื‘ืžืคื•ืจืฉ ืชื’ื•ื‘ื”:
07:18
If you have a loss and you feel incredibly unhappy,
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ืื ื—ื•ื•ื™ืชื ืื•ื‘ื“ืŸ ื•ืืชื ื—ืฉื™ื ืื•ืžืœืœื•ืช ืฉืœื ืชื™ืืžืŸ,
07:21
and then, six months later,
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ื•ืื—ืจื™ ืฉื™ืฉื” ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื,
07:22
you are still deeply sad, but you're functioning a little better,
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ืืชื ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ืขืฆื•ื‘ื™ื ืขืžื•ืงื•ืช, ืืš ืžืชืคืงื“ื™ื ืงืฆืช ื˜ื•ื‘ ื™ื•ืชืจ,
ื–ื” ื›ื ืจืื” ื™ื’ื•ืŸ,
07:26
it's probably grief,
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07:27
and it will probably ultimately resolve itself in some measure.
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ืฉืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ ื™ืกืชื™ื™ื ื›ื ืจืื” ืžืขืฆืžื• ื‘ืžื™ื“ื” ื–ื• ืื• ืื—ืจืช.
07:31
If you experience a catastrophic loss,
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ืื ืืชื ื—ื•ื•ื™ื ืื•ื‘ื“ืŸ ืขืงื‘ ืืกื•ืŸ,
07:34
and you feel terrible,
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ื•ืžืจื’ื™ืฉื™ื ื ื•ืจื,
07:35
and six months later you can barely function at all,
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ื•ืฉื™ืฉื” ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื ืื—"ื› ืืชื ื‘ืงื•ืฉื™ ืžืชืคืงื“ื™ื,
07:38
then it's probably a depression that was triggered
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ืžื“ื•ื‘ืจ ื›ื ืจืื” ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ, ืฉื”ืชืขื•ืจืจ ืขืงื‘ ื ืกื™ื‘ื•ืช ื”ืืกื•ืŸ.
07:41
by the catastrophic circumstances.
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07:43
The trajectory tells us a great deal.
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ืžืกืœื•ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ ืžืกืคืจ ืœื ื• ื”ืžื•ืŸ.
07:47
People think of depression as being just sadness.
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ืื ืฉื™ื ืจื•ืื™ื ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืกืชื ืขืฆื‘ื•ืช.
07:50
It's much, much too much sadness,
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ืžื“ื•ื‘ืจ ื‘ื”ืจื‘ื”, ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžื“ื™ ืขืฆื‘ื•ืช,
07:52
much too much grief
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ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžื“ื™ ื™ื’ื•ืŸ
07:54
at far too slight a cause.
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ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืกื™ื‘ื” ืงืœื•ืฉื” ืžื“ื™.
07:57
As I set out to understand depression,
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ื›ืฉื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื ืกื•ืช ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ,
08:00
and to interview people who had experienced it,
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ื•ืœืจืื™ื™ืŸ ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื—ื•ื• ืื•ืชื•,
08:02
I found that there were people who seemed, on the surface,
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ื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™ ืฉื™ืฉ ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืœื›ืื•ืจื”, ืขืœ ืคื ื™ ื”ืฉื˜ื—,
08:06
to have what sounded like relatively mild depression
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ื™ืฉ ืœื”ื ืžืขื™ืŸ ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืžืชื•ืŸ ื™ื—ืกื™ืช
ืฉื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช ื”ื’ื‘ื™ืœ ืื•ืชื ืœื—ืœื•ื˜ื™ืŸ.
08:10
who were nonetheless utterly disabled by it.
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08:13
And there were other people who had what sounded
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ื•ื”ื™ื• ืื—ืจื™ื ืฉื”ื™ื” ืœื”ื ืžื” ืฉื ืฉืžืข, ืœืคื™ ืชื™ืื•ืจื™ื”ื,
08:15
as they described it like terribly severe depression
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ื›ืžื• ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื—ืžื•ืจ ื•ื ื•ืจื
08:18
who nonetheless had good lives
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ื•ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช ื ื™ื”ืœื• ื—ื™ื™ื ื˜ื•ื‘ื™ื ื‘ื™ืŸ ื”ืกื“ืงื™ื
08:20
in the interstices between their depressive episodes.
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ืฉืœ ื”ืชืงืคื™ ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืฉืœื”ื.
08:23
And I set out to find out what it is that causes some people
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ื•ืื ื™ ื™ืฆืืชื™ ืœื’ืœื•ืช ืžื”ื• ื”ื“ื‘ืจ
ืฉื’ื•ืจื ืœืื ืฉื™ื ืžืกื•ื™ืžื™ื
08:27
to be more resilient than other people.
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ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื™ื•ืชืจ ื’ืžื™ืฉื™ื ืžืื—ืจื™ื.
08:30
What are the mechanisms that allow people to survive?
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ืžื”ื ื”ืžื ื’ื ื•ื ื™ื ืฉืžืืคืฉืจื™ื ืœืื ืฉื™ื ืœืฉืจื•ื“?
08:33
And I went out and I interviewed person after person
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ืื– ื™ืฆืืชื™ ื•ืจืื™ื™ื ืชื™ ืื“ื ืื—ืจื™ ืื“ื
08:36
who was suffering with depression.
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ืฉืกื‘ืœื• ืžื“ื›ืื•ืŸ.
08:38
One of the first people I interviewed
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ืื—ื“ ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื™ื ืฉืจืื™ื™ื ืชื™
ืชื™ืืจ ืืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
08:41
described depression as a slower way of being dead,
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ื›ืฆื•ืจื” ืื™ื˜ื™ืช ืฉืœ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืช,
08:45
and that was a good thing for me to hear early on
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ื•ื˜ื•ื‘ ืฉืฉืžืขืชื™ ืืช ื–ื” ื›ื‘ืจ ื‘ื”ืชื—ืœื”,
08:48
because it reminded me that that slow way of being dead
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ื›ื™ ื–ื” ื”ื–ื›ื™ืจ ืœื™
ืฉืื•ืชื” ืฆื•ืจื” ืื™ื˜ื™ืช ืฉืœ ืžื•ื•ืช
08:51
can lead to actual deadness,
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ื™ื›ื•ืœื” ืœื”ื•ื‘ื™ืœ ืœืžื™ืชื” ืืžื™ืชื™ืช,
08:53
that this is a serious business.
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ื•ื–ื” ื›ื‘ืจ ืขื ื™ื™ืŸ ืจืฆื™ื ื™.
08:55
It's the leading disability worldwide,
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ื–ื•ื”ื™ ื”ืžื•ื’ื‘ืœื•ืช ื”ื›ื™ ื ืคื•ืฆื” ื‘ืขื•ืœื,
08:58
and people die of it every day.
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ื•ืื ืฉื™ื ืžืชื™ื ืžืžื ื” ืžื™ื“ื™ ื™ื•ื ื‘ื™ื•ืžื•.
09:01
One of the people I talked to when I was trying to understand this
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ืื—ื“ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืื™ืชื ืฉื•ื—ื—ืชื™, ื›ืฉื ื™ืกื™ืชื™ ืœื”ื‘ื™ืŸ ื–ืืช,
09:04
was a beloved friend who I had known for many years,
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ื”ื™ืชื” ื—ื‘ืจื” ืื”ื•ื‘ื”
ืฉื”ื›ืจืชื™ ื‘ืžืฉืš ืฉื ื™ื ืจื‘ื•ืช,
09:08
and who had had a psychotic episode in her freshman year of college,
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ื•ืฉืกื‘ืœื” ืžื”ืชืงืฃ ืคืกื™ื›ื•ื˜ื™ ื‘ืฉื ืชื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ื‘ืงื•ืœื’',
09:13
and then plummeted into a horrific depression.
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ื•ืื– ืฉืงืขื” ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืžื—ืจื™ื“.
09:16
She had bipolar illness,
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ื”ื™ื ืกื‘ืœื” ืžืžื—ืœื” ื“ื•-ืงื•ื˜ื‘ื™ืช,
09:17
or manic depression, as it was then known.
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ืื• ืžื ื™ื”-ื“ื™ืคืจืกื™ื”, ื›ืคื™ ืฉื ื•ื“ืขื” ื‘ืื•ืชื ื™ืžื™ื.
09:20
And then she did very well for many years on lithium,
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ื•ืื—ืจ ื”ื™ื ื—ื™ื” ื˜ื•ื‘ ืžืื“ ื‘ืžืฉืš ืฉื ื™ื, ืขืœ ื›ื“ื•ืจื™ ืœื™ืชื™ื•ื,
ื•ื‘ืกื•ืคื• ืฉืœ ื“ื‘ืจ,
09:24
and then eventually, she was taken off her lithium
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ื”ื•ืคืกืง ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ืฉืœื” ื‘ืœื™ืชื™ื•ื,
09:27
to see how she would do without it,
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœืจืื•ืช ืื™ืš ืชืกืชื“ืจ ื‘ืœืขื“ื™ื•,
09:29
and she had another psychosis,
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ื•ื”ื™ื” ืœื” ืขื•ื“ ื”ืชืงืฃ ืคืกื™ื›ื•ื˜ื™,
09:31
and then plunged into the worst depression that I had ever seen
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ื•ื”ื™ื ืฉืงืขื” ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื ื•ืจื ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ
ืฉืื™-ืคืขื ืจืื™ืชื™,
09:35
in which she sat in her parents' apartment,
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ื•ื‘ืžื”ืœื›ื• ื™ืฉื‘ื” ื‘ื“ื™ืจืช ื”ื•ืจื™ื”,
09:38
more or less catatonic, essentially without moving,
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ืคื—ื•ืช ืื• ื™ื•ืชืจ ืงื˜ื˜ื•ื ื™ืช, ืœืžืขืฉื” ืžื‘ืœื™ ืœื–ื•ื–,
09:41
day after day after day.
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ื™ื•ื ืื—ืจื™ ื™ื•ื ืื—ืจื™ ื™ื•ื.
09:43
And when I interviewed her about that experience some years later --
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ื•ื›ืฉืจืื™ื™ื ืชื™ ืื•ืชื” ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ื–ื• ืื—ืจื™ ื›ืžื” ืฉื ื™ื --
09:47
she's a poet and psychotherapist named Maggie Robbins --
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ื”ื™ื ืžืฉื•ืจืจืช ื•ืคืกื™ื›ื™ืื˜ืจื™ืช, ื•ืฉืžื” ืžื’ื™ ืจื•ื‘ื™ื ืก --
09:50
when I interviewed her, she said,
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ื›ืฉืจืื™ื™ื ืชื™ ืื•ืชื”, ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”:
09:53
"I was singing 'Where Have All The Flowers Gone,'
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"ืฉืจืชื™ ืืช 'ืื™ืคื” ื”ืคืจื—ื™ื ื›ื•ืœื?'
09:57
over and over, to occupy my mind.
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"ืฉื•ื‘ ื•ืฉื•ื‘, ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืขืกื™ืง ืืช ืžื•ื—ื™.
10:00
I was singing to blot out the things my mind was saying,
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"ืฉืจืชื™ ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ื—ืจื™ืฉ ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื”ืžื•ื— ืฉืœื™ ืืžืจ,
10:03
which were, 'You are nothing. You are nobody.
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"ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื›ืžื•:
"'ืืช ื›ืœื•ื. ืืช ืืคืก.
10:08
You don't even deserve to live.'
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"ืœื ืžื’ื™ืข ืœืš ืœื—ื™ื•ืช.'
10:10
And that was when I really started thinking
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"ื•ืื– ื’ื ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘
"ืขืœ ืœื”ืจื•ื’ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™."
10:13
about killing myself."
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10:15
You don't think in depression that you've put on a gray veil
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ื›ืฉืืชื ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ, ืื™ื ื›ื ื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื
ืฉืขื˜ื™ืชื ืฆืขื™ืฃ ืืคื•ืจ
10:19
and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood.
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ืฉืืชื ืจื•ืื™ื ืืช ื”ืขื•ืœื ื“ืจืš ื”ืขืจืคืœ
ืฉืœ ืžืฆื‘ ืจื•ื— ืจืข.
10:23
You think that the veil has been taken away,
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ืืœื ืืชื ื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื ืฉื”ืฆืขื™ืฃ ื”ื•ืกืจ,
ืฆืขื™ืฃ ื”ืื•ืฉืจ,
10:26
the veil of happiness,
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10:27
and that now you're seeing truly.
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ื•ืฉื›ืขืช ืืชื ืจื•ืื™ื ื ื›ื•ื—ื”.
10:30
It's easier to help schizophrenics who perceive
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ืงืœ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืœืขื–ื•ืจ ืœืกื›ื™ื–ื•ืคืจื ื™ื, ืฉืžื‘ื™ื ื™ื ืฉื™ืฉ ืžืฉื”ื• ื–ืจ ื‘ืชื•ื›ื,
10:33
that there's something foreign inside of them that needs to be exorcised,
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ืฉื™ืฉ ืœืกืœืงื•,
10:37
but it's difficult with depressives,
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ืื‘ืœ ืขื ื”ืžื“ื•ื›ืื™ื ื–ื” ืงืฉื”,
10:39
because we believe we are seeing the truth.
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ื›ื™ ืื ื• ืžืืžื™ื ื™ื ืฉืื ื• ืจื•ืื™ื ืืช ื”ืืžืช.
10:43
But the truth lies.
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ืืžืช ืžืฉืงืจืช.
10:45
I became obsessed with that sentence:
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ื ืขืฉื™ืชื™ ืขืกื•ืง ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ืžืฉืคื˜ ื”ื–ื”:
10:47
"But the truth lies."
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"ืื‘ืœ ื”ืืžืช ืžืฉืงืจืช."
10:50
And I discovered, as I talked to depressive people,
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ื•ื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™, ื›ื›ืœ ืฉืฉื•ื—ื—ืชื™ ืขื ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ,
10:52
that they have many delusional perceptions.
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ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื”ื ื”ืžื•ืŸ ืžื—ืฉื‘ื•ืช ืฉื•ื•ื.
10:55
People will say, "No one loves me."
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ืื ืฉื™ื ื™ืืžืจื•: "ืื™ืฉ ืื™ื ื• ืื•ื”ื‘ ืื•ืชื™."
10:57
And you say, "I love you,
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ื•ืืชื ืชืืžืจื•: "ืื ื™ ืื•ื”ื‘ ืื•ืชืš,
10:58
your wife loves you, your mother loves you."
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"ืืฉืชืš ืื•ื”ื‘ืช ืื•ืชืš, ืืžืš ืื•ื”ื‘ืช ืื•ืชืš."
11:01
You can answer that one pretty readily, at least for most people.
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ืืชื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขื ื•ืช ื›ืš ืžื™ื“,
ืœืคื—ื•ืช ืœืจื•ื‘ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื.
ืื‘ืœ ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื’ื ื™ื’ื™ื“ื•:
11:05
But people who are depressed will also say,
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11:07
"No matter what we do, we're all just going to die in the end."
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"ืœื ืžืฉื ื” ืžื” ื ืขืฉื”,
"ื›ื•ืœื ื• ื”ืจื™ ื ืžื•ืช ื‘ืกื•ืฃ."
11:11
Or they'll say, "There can be no true communion
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ืื•: "ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืฉื•ื ืงืฉืจ ืืžื™ืชื™
11:13
between two human beings.
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"ื‘ื™ืŸ ืฉื ื™ ื‘ื ื™-ืื“ื.
11:15
Each of us is trapped in his own body."
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"ื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ืžืื™ืชื ื• ืœื›ื•ื“ ื‘ื’ื•ืคื•."
11:17
To which you have to say,
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ื•ืขืœ ื›ืš ืขืœื™ื›ื ืœืขื ื•ืช:
11:19
"That's true,
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"ื–ื” ื ื›ื•ืŸ,
11:20
but I think we should focus right now on what to have for breakfast."
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"ืื‘ืœ ืœื“ืขืชื™, ื›ืจื’ืข ืขืœื™ื ื• ืœื”ืชืžืงื“
"ื‘ืžื” ืฉื ืื›ืœ ืœืืจื•ื—ืช ื”ื‘ื•ืงืจ."
11:24
(Laughter)
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[ืฆื—ื•ืง]
11:26
A lot of the time,
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ืจื•ื‘ ื”ื–ืžืŸ,
11:28
what they are expressing is not illness, but insight,
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ืžื” ืฉื”ื ืžื‘ื™ืขื™ื ืื™ื ื ื• ื—ื•ืœื™, ืืœื ืชื•ื‘ื ื•ืช,
11:31
and one comes to think what's really extraordinary
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ื•ืขื•ืœื” ื”ืžื—ืฉื‘ื”, ื•ื–ื” ื‘ืืžืช ืžื™ื•ื—ื“ ื‘ืžื™ื ื•,
11:33
is that most of us know about those existential questions
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ืฉืžืจื‘ื™ืชื ื• ืžื›ื™ืจื™ื ืืช ื”ืฉืืœื•ืช ื”ืงื™ื•ืžื™ื•ืช ื”ืืœื”
ื•ื”ืŸ ืœื ืžืจื‘ื•ืช ืœื”ืกื™ื— ืืช ื“ืขืชื ื•.
11:37
and they don't distract us very much.
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11:39
There was a study I particularly liked
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ื”ื™ื” ืžื—ืงืจ ืฉืื”ื‘ืชื™ ื‘ืžื™ื•ื—ื“
11:41
in which a group of depressed and a group of non-depressed people
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ืฉื‘ื• ืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
ื•ืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ืื ืฉื™ื ืœื-ืžื“ื•ื›ืื™ื
ื”ืชื‘ืงืฉื• ืœืฉื—ืง ื‘ืžืฉื—ืง ืžื—ืฉื‘ ื‘ืžืฉืš ืฉืขื”,
11:45
were asked to play a video game for an hour,
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11:47
and at the end of the hour,
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ื•ื‘ืชื•ื ื”ืฉืขื”
11:49
they were asked how many little monsters they thought they had killed.
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ืฉืืœื• ืื•ืชื ื›ืžื” ืžืคืœืฆื•ืช ืงื˜ื ื•ืช ื”ื ื”ืจื’ื•, ืœื“ืขืชื .
ืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ื”ืžื“ื•ื›ืื™ื ื“ื™ื™ืงื” ื‘ื“"ื› ื‘ืชื—ื•ื ื”-10%,
11:53
The depressive group was usually accurate to within about 10 percent,
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11:57
and the non-depressed people
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ื•ืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ื”ืœื-ืžื“ื•ื›ืื™ื
11:58
guessed between 15 and 20 times as many little monsters --
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ื ื™ื—ืฉื” ืฉื”ื ื”ืจื’ื• ืคื™ 15 ืื• 20
ืžืคืœืฆื•ืช ืงื˜ื ื•ืช-- [ืฆื—ื•ืง]--
12:03
(Laughter)
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ืžื›ืคื™ ืฉื‘ืืžืช ื”ืจื’ื•.
12:04
as they had actually killed.
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12:07
A lot of people said, when I chose to write about my depression,
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ื”ืจื‘ื” ืื ืฉื™ื ืืžืจื•, ื›ืฉื”ื—ืœื˜ืชื™ ืœื›ืชื•ื‘ ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืฉืœื™,
12:11
that it must be very difficult to be out of that closet,
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ืฉื•ื•ื“ืื™ ืงืฉื” ืžืื“
ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœืืจื•ืŸ, ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื.
12:14
to have people know.
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ื”ื ืฉืืœื•: "ื”ืื ืื ืฉื™ื ืžื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืื™ืชืš ืื—ืจืช?"
12:16
They said, "Do people talk to you differently?"
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12:18
I said, "Yes, people talk to me differently.
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ื•ืื ื™ ืขื ื™ืชื™: "ื›ืŸ. ืื ืฉื™ื ืžื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืื™ืชื™ ืื—ืจืช;
12:20
They talk to me differently insofar
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"ื”ื ืžื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืื™ืชื™ ืื—ืจืช ืžื‘ื—ื™ื ื” ื–ื•,
12:22
as they start telling me about their experience,
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"ืฉื”ื ืžืชื—ื™ืœื™ื ืœืกืคืจ ืœื™ ืขืœ ื”ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ืฉืœื”ื,
12:24
or their sister's experience,
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"ืื• ืขืœ ื”ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ืฉืœ ืื—ื•ืชื,
12:26
or their friend's experience.
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"ืื• ืขืœ ื”ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ืฉืœ ื™ื“ื™ื“ื."
12:28
Things are different because now I know
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ื”ืžืฆื‘ ื”ื•ื ืฉื•ื ื”, ื›ื™ ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ืื ื™ ื™ื•ื“ืข
12:30
that depression is the family secret that everyone has.
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ืฉื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ื”ืกื•ื“ ื”ืžืฉืคื—ืชื™
ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื›ื•ืœื.
12:35
I went a few years ago to a conference,
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ืœืคื ื™ ื›ืžื” ืฉื ื™ื ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ื›ื ืก,
12:39
and on Friday of the three-day conference,
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ื•ื‘ื™ื•ื ืฉื™ืฉื™, ืžืชื•ืš ืฉืœื•ืฉืช ื™ืžื™ ื”ื›ื ืก,
12:41
one of the participants took me aside, and she said,
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ืื—ืช ื”ืžืฉืชืชืคื•ืช ืœืงื—ื” ืื•ืชื™ ื”ืฆื™ื“ื” ื•ืืžืจื”:
12:44
"I suffer from depression and I'm a little embarrassed about it,
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"ืื ื™ ืกื•ื‘ืœืช ืžื“ื›ืื•ืŸ,
"ืื ื™ ืงืฆืช ื ื‘ื•ื›ื” ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื–ื”,
"ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืœื•ืงื—ืช ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช,
12:51
but I've been taking this medication,
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12:52
and I just wanted to ask you what you think?"
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"ื•ืจืฆื™ืชื™ ืœืฉืื•ืœ ืื•ืชืš ืžื” ื“ืขืชืš."
ืขืฉื™ืชื™ ื›ืžื™ื˜ื‘ ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœื™ื™ืขืฅ ืœื”,
12:56
And so I did my best to give her such advice as I could.
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12:58
And then she said, "You know, my husband would never understand this.
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ื•ืื– ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”: "ืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข,
"ืื™ืŸ ืกื™ื›ื•ื™ ืฉื‘ืขืœื™ ื™ื‘ื™ืŸ ืืช ื–ื”.
13:03
He's really the kind of guy to whom this wouldn't make any sense,
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"ื”ื•ื ื‘ื“ื™ื•ืง ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืก ืฉื‘ืขื™ื ื™ื• ื–ื” ืžืžืฉ ืœื ื”ื’ื™ื•ื ื™,
"ืื– ืฉื™ื™ืฉืืจ ื‘ื™ื ื™ื ื•, ืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข."
13:06
so, you know, it's just between us."
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13:08
And I said, "Yes, that's fine."
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ื•ืื ื™ ืขื ื™ืชื™: "ื›ืŸ, ืื™ืŸ ื‘ืขื™ื”."
13:10
On Sunday of the same conference,
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ื‘ื™ื•ื ืจืืฉื•ืŸ, ื‘ืื•ืชื• ื”ื›ื ืก,
13:12
her husband took me aside,
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ื‘ืขืœื” ืœืงื— ืื•ืชื™ ื”ืฆื™ื“ื”,
13:14
(Laughter)
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13:15
and he said, "My wife wouldn't think
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ื•ืืžืจ: "ืืฉืชื™ ื”ื™ืชื” ื—ื•ืฉื‘ืช
13:17
that I was really much of a guy if she knew this,
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"ืฉืื ื™ ืœื ื’ื‘ืจ ืื™ืœื• ื™ื“ืขื” ืืช ื–ื”,
13:19
but I've been dealing with this depression and I'm taking some medication,
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"ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืžืชืžื•ื“ื“ ืขื ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
"ื•ืื ื™ ืœื•ืงื— ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช,
13:23
and I wondered what you think?"
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"ื•ืฉืืœืชื™ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™ ืžื” ื“ืขืชืš."
13:26
They were hiding the same medication
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ื”ื ื”ืกืชื™ืจื•
ืืช ืื•ืชื” ืชืจื•ืคื” ื‘ืฉื ื™ ืžืงื•ืžื•ืช ืฉื•ื ื™ื
13:28
in two different places in the same bedroom.
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ื‘ืื•ืชื• ื—ื“ืจ-ืฉื™ื ื”.
13:31
(Laughter)
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ื•ืื ื™ ืืžืจืชื™ ืฉืœื“ืขืชื™
13:33
And I said that I thought communication within the marriage
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ืžืฆื‘ ื”ืชืงืฉื•ืจืช ื‘ื ื™ืฉื•ืื™ื”ื
13:36
might be triggering some of their problems.
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ื”ื•ื ืฉื’ื•ืจื ืœื›ืžื” ืžื‘ืขื™ื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื.
13:38
(Laughter)
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[ืฆื—ื•ืง]
13:42
But I was also struck
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ืื‘ืœ ื’ื ื‘ืœื˜ ืœืขื™ื ื™
ื”ืื•ืคื™ ื”ืžื›ื‘ื™ื“
13:44
by the burdensome nature of such mutual secrecy.
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ืฉืœ ืกื•ื“ื™ื•ืช ื”ื“ื“ื™ืช ื›ื–ื•.
13:48
Depression is so exhausting.
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ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ื›ื” ืžืชื™ืฉ.
13:50
It takes up so much of your time and energy,
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ื”ื•ื ื’ื•ื–ืœ ื›ืœ-ื›ืš ื”ืจื‘ื” ื–ืžืŸ ื•ืžืจืฅ,
13:52
and silence about it,
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ื•ื”ืฉืžื™ืจื” ืขืœ ืฉืชื™ืงื” ืœื’ื‘ื™ื•,
13:54
it really does make the depression worse.
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ืœืžืขืฉื” ืžื—ืžื™ืจื” ืืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ.
13:57
And then I began thinking
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ื•ืื– ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืขืœ ื›ืœ ื”ื“ืจื›ื™ื
13:58
about all the ways people make themselves better.
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ืฉื‘ื”ืŸ ืื ืฉื™ื ืžื‘ืจื™ืื™ื ืืช ืขืฆืžื.
14:00
I'd started off as a medical conservative.
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ืงื•ื“ื ืœื›ืŸ ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืฉืžืจืŸ ืžื‘ื—ื™ื ื” ืจืคื•ืื™ืช.
14:03
I thought there were a few kinds of therapy that worked,
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ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืฉื™ืฉ ืจืง ืงื•ืžืฅ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ืฉืžืฆืœื™ื—ื™ื,
14:05
it was clear what they were --
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ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืจื•ืจ ืžื” ื”ื--
14:07
there was medication,
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ื™ืฉ ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช,
14:08
there were certain psychotherapies,
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ื™ืฉ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™-ื ืคืฉ ืžืกื•ื™ืžื™ื,
14:10
there was possibly electroconvulsive treatment,
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ืงื™ื™ืžืช ื”ืืคืฉืจื•ืช ืœื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ื ื–ืขื™-ื—ืฉืžืœ,
ื•ื›ืœ ื”ื™ืชืจ ื”ืŸ ืฉื˜ื•ื™ื•ืช.
14:13
and that everything else was nonsense.
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14:15
But then I discovered something.
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ืืš ืื– ื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™ ืžืฉื”ื•.
14:17
If you have brain cancer,
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ืื ื™ืฉ ืœื›ื ืกืจื˜ืŸ ืžื•ื—,
14:19
and you say that standing on your head for 20 minutes every morning
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ื•ืืชื ื˜ื•ืขื ื™ื ืฉืขืžื™ื“ื” ืขืœ ื”ืจืืฉ
ื‘ืžืฉืš 20 ื“ืงื•ืช ืžื™ื“ื™ ื‘ื•ืงืจ ืชืฉืคืจ ืืช ืžืฆื‘ื›ื,
14:22
makes you feel better,
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14:23
it may make you feel better, but you still have brain cancer,
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ื–ื” ืขืฉื•ื™ ืœืฉืคืจ ืืช ืžืฆื‘ื›ื,
ืื‘ืœ ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื™ื”ื™ื” ืœื›ื ืกืจื˜ืŸ ืžื•ื—,
14:26
and you'll still probably die from it.
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ื•ื›ื ืจืื” ืฉื‘ืกื•ืคื• ืฉืœ ืฉืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ืชืžื•ืชื• ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื–ื”.
14:29
But if you say that you have depression,
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ืืชื ืื•ืžืจื™ื ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื›ื ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ,
14:31
and standing on your head for 20 minutes every day
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ื•ืขืžื™ื“ื” ืขืœ ื”ืจืืฉ ื‘ืžืฉืš 20 ื“ืงื•ืช ืžื™ื“ื™ ื™ื•ื
ืชืฉืคืจ ืืช ื”ืจื’ืฉืชื›ื, ื–ื” ื™ืฆืœื™ื—,
14:34
makes you feel better, then it's worked,
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14:36
because depression is an illness of how you feel,
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ื›ื™ ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ืžื—ืœื” ืฉืœ ื”ื”ืจื’ืฉื”,
14:38
and if you feel better,
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ื•ืื ืืชื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉื™ื ื˜ื•ื‘ ื™ื•ืชืจ,
14:40
then you are effectively not depressed anymore.
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ืื– ื‘ืขืฆื ื›ื‘ืจ ืื™ื ื›ื ืžื“ื•ื›ืื™ื.
ื›ืš ืฉื ืขืฉื™ืชื™ ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืกื•ื‘ืœื ื™
14:43
So I became much more tolerant
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ื›ืœืคื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื ื”ื ืจื—ื‘ ืฉืœ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ืืœื˜ืจื ื˜ื™ื‘ื™ื™ื.
14:45
of the vast world of alternative treatments.
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14:47
And I get letters, I get hundreds of letters
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ื•ืื ื™ ืžืงื‘ืœ ืžื›ืชื‘ื™ื, ืžืื•ืช ืžื›ืชื‘ื™ื
14:50
from people writing to tell me about what's worked for them.
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ืžืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื›ื•ืชื‘ื™ื ื•ืžืกืคืจื™ื ืœื™ ืžื” ื”ืฆืœื™ื— ืขื‘ื•ืจื.
ื”ื™ื•ื, ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืฉืืœ ืื•ืชื™ ืžืื—ื•ืจื™ ื”ืงืœืขื™ื ืขืœ ืžื“ื™ื˜ืฆื™ื”.
14:53
Someone was asking me backstage today about meditation.
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14:56
My favorite of the letters that I got was the one that came from a woman
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ืื—ื“ ื”ืžื›ืชื‘ื™ื ื”ืื”ื•ื‘ื™ื ืฉืงื™ื‘ืœืชื™
ื”ื’ื™ืข ืžืื™ืฉื” ืื—ืช, ืฉื›ืชื‘ื” ืฉื”ื™ื ื ื™ืกืชื” ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ,
15:00
who wrote and said that she had tried therapy, medication,
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ื”ื™ื ื ื™ืกืชื” ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช, ื”ื™ื ื ื™ืกืชื” ืœืžืขืฉื” ื”ื›ืœ,
15:03
she had tried pretty much everything,
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ื•ื”ื™ื ืžืฆืื” ืคืชืจื•ืŸ ื•ืžืงื•ื•ื” ืฉืื ื™ ืื’ืœื” ืื•ืชื• ืœืขื•ืœื:
15:05
and she had found a solution and hoped I would tell the world,
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ืœื˜ื•ื•ืช ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืงื˜ื ื™ื.
15:08
and that was making little things from yarn.
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15:11
(Laughter)
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[ืฆื—ื•ืง]
15:14
She sent me some of them.
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ื”ื™ื ืฉืœื—ื” ืœื™ ื›ืžื” ืžื”ื. [ืฆื—ื•ืง]
15:16
(Laughter)
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15:18
And I'm not wearing them right now.
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ืื ื™ ืœื ืœื•ื‘ืฉ ืื•ืชื ื›ืจื’ืข.
15:20
(Laughter)
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15:21
I suggested to her that she also should look up
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ื”ืฆืขืชื™ ืœื” ื’ื ืœืขื™ื™ืŸ ื‘ืขืจืš
15:24
obsessive compulsive disorder in the DSM.
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"ื”ืคืจืขื” ื˜ื•ืจื“ื ื™ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ืชื™ืช" ื‘ืกืคืจ ื”ืื‘ื—ื ื•ืช ื”ืคืกื™ื›ื™ืื˜ืจื™ื•ืช.
[ืฆื—ื•ืง]
15:28
And yet, when I went to look at alternative treatments,
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ื•ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช, ื›ืฉื—ื–ืจืชื™ ืœื‘ื—ื•ืŸ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ืืœื˜ืจื ื˜ื™ื‘ื™ื™ื,
15:31
I also gained perspective on other treatments.
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ื’ื™ื‘ืฉืชื™ ื”ืฉืงืคื” ืœื’ื‘ื™ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื.
15:34
I went through a tribal exorcism in Senegal
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ืขื‘ืจืชื™ ื’ื™ืจื•ืฉ-ืจื•ื—ื•ืช ืฉื‘ื˜ื™ ื‘ืกื ื’ืœ
15:37
that involved a great deal of ram's blood
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ืฉื”ื™ื” ื‘ื• ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžืื“ ื“ื ืื™ื™ืœ
15:39
and that I'm not going to detail right now,
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ื•ืœื ืื›ื ืก ื›ืจื’ืข ืœืคืจื˜ื™ื,
15:41
but a few years afterwards I was in Rwanda,
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ืื‘ืœ ืื—ืจื™ ื›ืžื” ืฉื ื™ื ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ืจื•ืื ื“ื”
15:43
working on a different project,
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ื›ืฉืขื‘ื“ืชื™ ืขืœ ืžื™ื–ื ืื—ืจ,
15:45
and I happened to describe my experience to someone,
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ื•ื‘ืžืงืจื” ืชื™ืืจืชื™ ื‘ืคื ื™ ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืืช ื”ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ืฉืœื™,
15:47
and he said,
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ: "ื˜ื•ื‘, ืืชื” ื™ื•ื“ืข,
15:49
"Well, that's West Africa, and we're in East Africa,
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"ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื‘ืžืขืจื‘-ืืคืจื™ืงื”, ื•ืื ื• ื‘ืžื–ืจื—-ืืคืจื™ืงื”,
15:51
and our rituals are in some ways very different,
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"ื•ื”ื˜ืงืกื™ื ืฉืœื ื• ืฉื•ื ื™ื ืžืื“ ื‘ืžื•ื‘ื ื™ื ืžืกื•ื™ืžื™ื,
15:53
but we do have some rituals
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"ืื‘ืœ ืœื›ืžื” ื˜ืงืกื™ื ืฉืœื ื•
15:55
that have something in common with what you're describing."
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"ื™ืฉ ืžืฉื”ื• ื‘ืžืฉื•ืชืฃ ืขื ืžื” ืฉืืชื” ืžืชืืจ."
ืืžืจืชื™: "ืื•ื”." ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ: "ื›ืŸ,
15:58
And he said,
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15:59
"But we've had a lot of trouble with Western mental health workers,
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"ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื• ืœื ื• ื”ืžื•ืŸ ื‘ืขื™ื•ืช ืขื ืขื•ื‘ื“ื™ ื‘ืจื™ืื•ืช ื”ื ืคืฉ ื”ืžืขืจื‘ื™ื™ื,
"ื‘ืžื™ื•ื—ื“ ืืœื” ืฉื”ื’ื™ืขื• ืžื™ื“ ืื—ืจื™ ื˜ื‘ื— ื”ืขื."
16:02
especially the ones who came right after the genocide."
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ืฉืืœืชื™: "ืื™ืœื• ื‘ืขื™ื•ืช ื”ื™ื• ืœื›ื?"
16:05
I said, "What kind of trouble did you have?"
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ: "ื•ื‘ื›ืŸ,
16:07
And he said, "Well, they would do this bizarre thing.
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"ื”ื ื”ื™ื• ืขื•ืฉื™ื ืžืฉื”ื• ืžื•ื–ืจ.
16:10
They didn't take people out in the sunshine
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"ื”ื ืœื ื”ื•ืฆื™ืื• ืื ืฉื™ื ืœืฉืžืฉ
"ืฉืฉื ืžืชื—ื™ืœื™ื ืœื”ืจื’ื™ืฉ ื™ื•ืชืจ ื˜ื•ื‘.
16:13
where you begin to feel better.
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16:14
They didn't include drumming or music to get people's blood going.
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"ื”ื ืœื ืฉื™ืœื‘ื• ืชื™ืคื•ืฃ ืื• ืžื•ืกื™ืงื” ื›ื“ื™ ืฉื”ื“ื ืฉืœ ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื™ืชื—ื™ืœ ืœื–ืจื•ื.
16:17
They didn't involve the whole community.
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"ื”ื ืœื ืขื™ืจื‘ื• ืืช ื›ืœ ื”ืงื”ื™ืœื”.
16:19
They didn't externalize the depression as an invasive spirit.
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"ื”ื ืœื ื”ื•ืฆื™ืื• ืืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
"ื‘ืชื•ืจ ืจื•ื— ืคื•ืœืฉื ื™ืช.
16:22
Instead what they did was they took people one at a time into dingy little rooms
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"ื‘ืžืงื•ื ื–ื” ื”ื ื”ื›ื ื™ืกื• ืื ืฉื™ื
"ืื—ื“-ืื—ื“ ืœื—ื“ืจื™ื ืงื˜ื ื™ื ื•ืงื•ื“ืจื™ื
16:27
and had them talk for an hour
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"ื•ื’ืจืžื• ืœื”ื ืœื“ื‘ืจ ื‘ืžืฉืš ืฉืขื”
16:29
about bad things that had happened to them."
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"ืขืœ ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ื”ืจืขื™ื ืฉืงืจื• ืœื”ื."
16:31
(Laughter)
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[ืฆื—ื•ืง] [ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื]
16:33
(Applause)
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16:37
He said, "We had to ask them to leave the country."
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ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ: "ื ืืœืฆื ื• ืœื‘ืงืฉ ืžื”ื ืœืขื–ื•ื‘ ืืช ื”ืืจืฅ."
16:39
(Laughter)
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[ืฆื—ื•ืง]
16:42
Now at the other end of alternative treatments,
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ื•ื‘ืงืฆื” ื”ืฉื ื™ ืฉืœ ืงืฉืช ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ื”ืืœื˜ืจื ื˜ื™ื‘ื™ื™ื,
ื”ื‘ื” ื•ืืกืคืจ ืœื›ื ืขืœ ืคืจื ืง ืจื•ืกืืงื•ืฃ.
16:45
let me tell you about Frank Russakoff.
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ืคืจื ืง ืจื•ืกืืงื•ืฃ ืกื‘ืœ ืžื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื›ื™ ื’ืจื•ืข
16:47
Frank Russakoff had the worst depression perhaps that I've ever seen in a man.
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ืฉืจืื™ืชื™ ื›ื ืจืื” ืืฆืœ ื’ื‘ืจ.
16:52
He was constantly depressed.
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ืžื“ื•ื›ื ืœืœื-ื”ืจืฃ.
16:54
He was, when I met him,
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ื›ืฉืคื’ืฉืชื™ ืื•ืชื•, ื”ื•ื ื›ื‘ืจ ืงื™ื‘ืœ ื‘ื›ืœ ื—ื•ื“ืฉ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ื ื–ืขื™ ื—ืฉืžืœ.
16:56
at a point at which every month, he would have electroshock treatment.
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17:00
Then he would feel sort of disoriented for a week.
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ื•ืื—ืจื™ื• ื”ื™ื” ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ืงืฆืช ืžื‘ื•ืœื‘ืœ ื‘ืžืฉืš ืฉื‘ื•ืข.
17:02
Then he would feel okay for a week.
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ืื—"ื› ื”ื™ื” ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ื‘ืกื“ืจ ืœืžืฉืš ืฉื‘ื•ืข.
17:04
Then he would have a week of going downhill.
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ืื—"ื› ื”ื™ื” ืœื• ืฉื‘ื•ืข ืฉืœ ื”ื™ื“ืจื“ืจื•ืช.
17:06
And then he would have another electroshock treatment.
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ื•ืื– ื”ื™ื” ืžืงื‘ืœ ืขื•ื“ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ื ื–ืขื™ ื—ืฉืžืœ.
ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ ืœื™, ื›ืฉืคื’ืฉืชื™ ืื•ืชื•:
17:09
And he said to me when I met him,
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17:10
"It's unbearable to go through my weeks this way.
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"ื‘ืœืชื™-ื ืกื‘ืœ ืœืขื‘ื•ืจ ื›ื›ื” ืืช ื”ืฉื‘ื•ืขื•ืช ืฉืœื™.
"ืื ื™ ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ืžืฉื™ืš ื›ื›ื”.
17:13
I can't go on this way,
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17:14
and I've figured out how I'm going to end it
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"ื•ื›ื‘ืจ ื”ื—ืœื˜ืชื™ ืื™ืš ืœืกื™ื™ื ืืช ื–ื”
17:16
if I don't get better."
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"ืื ืœื ืืจื’ื™ืฉ ื˜ื•ื‘ ื™ื•ืชืจ.
17:18
"But," he said to me, "I heard about a protocol at Mass General
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"ืื‘ืœ," ื›ืš ืืžืจ ืœื™, "ืฉืžืขืชื™ ืขืœ ื ื•ื”ืœ
"ื‘ื‘ื™ื”"ื— ื”ื›ืœืœื™ ืฉืœ ืžืกืฆ'ื•ืกื˜ืก, ื ื•ื”ืœ ืฉื ืงืจื
17:22
for a procedure called a cingulotomy, which is a brain surgery,
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"ืกื™ื ื’ื•ืœื•ื˜ื•ืžื™ื”, ืฉื”ื•ื ื ื™ืชื•ื— ืžื•ื—,
17:25
and I think I'm going to give that a try."
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"ื•ื ืจืื” ืœื™ ืฉืื ื™ ืื ืกื” ืืช ื–ื”."
17:27
And I remember being amazed at that point to think that someone
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ื•ืื ื™ ื–ื•ื›ืจ ืฉื‘ืื•ืชื” ืขืช ื ื“ื”ืžืชื™ ืœืžื—ืฉื‘ื” ืฉืžื™ืฉื”ื•,
17:31
who clearly had so many bad experiences
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ืฉืขื‘ืจ ื‘ื‘ื™ืจื•ืจ ื—ื•ื•ื™ื•ืช ื’ืจื•ืขื•ืช ื›ื” ืจื‘ื•ืช
17:34
with so many different treatments
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ื‘ื›ืœ-ื›ืš ื”ืจื‘ื” ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœื™ื ืฉื•ื ื™ื,
17:36
still had buried in him, somewhere, enough optimism
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ืื™-ืฉื ื‘ืชื•ื›ื• ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ืงื‘ื•ืจื” ืžืกืคื™ืง ืื•ืคื˜ื™ืžื™ื•ืช
17:39
to reach out for one more.
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœื ืกื•ืช ืขื•ื“ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ.
17:41
And he had the cingulotomy, and it was incredibly successful.
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ื”ื•ื ืขื‘ืจ ืืช ื”ืกื™ื ื’ื•ืœื•ื˜ื•ืžื™ื”,
ื•ื”ื ื™ืชื•ื— ื”ืฆืœื™ื— ื‘ืฆื•ืจื” ืžื“ื”ื™ืžื”.
17:45
He's now a friend of mine.
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ื”ื™ื•ื ื”ื•ื ื—ื‘ืจ ืฉืœื™.
17:47
He has a lovely wife and two beautiful children.
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ื™ืฉ ืœื• ืื™ืฉื” ื ื”ื“ืจืช ื•ืฉื ื™ ื™ืœื“ื™ื ื™ืคื”ืคื™ื™ื.
17:50
He wrote me a letter the Christmas after the surgery,
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ื”ื•ื ืฉืœื— ืœื™ ืžื›ืชื‘, ื‘ื—ื’ ื”ืžื•ืœื“ ืฉืœืื—ืจ ื”ื ื™ืชื•ื—,
17:53
and he said,
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ื•ื‘ื• ื›ืชื‘:
17:55
"My father sent me two presents this year,
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"ืื‘ื™ ืฉืœื— ืœื™ ื”ืฉื ื” ืฉืชื™ ืžืชื ื•ืช,
17:57
First, a motorized CD rack from The Sharper Image
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"ื”ืื—ืช, ืžืขืžื“ ืชืงืœื™ื˜ื•ืจื™ื ืžืžื•ื ืข ืฉืœ ื”ืžื•ืชื’ ืฉืืจืคืจ ืื™ืžื’',
18:00
that I didn't really need,
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"ืฉืœื ื”ื™ื” ืžืžืฉ ื ื—ื•ืฅ ืœื™,
18:01
but I knew he was giving it to me to celebrate
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"ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ื™ื•ื“ืข ืฉื”ื•ื ื ืชืŸ ืœื™ ืื•ืชื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื—ื’ื•ื’ ืืช ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื”
18:03
the fact that I'm living on my own and have a job I seem to love.
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"ืฉืื ื™ ืžื ื”ืœ ื—ื™ื™ื ืขืฆืžืื™ื™ื
"ื•ื™ืฉ ืœื™ ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ืฉืื ื™ ื›ื ืจืื” ืื•ื”ื‘.
18:07
And the other present was a photo of my grandmother,
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"ื•ื”ืžืชื ื” ื”ืฉื ื™ื”
"ื”ื™ืชื” ืชืžื•ื ื” ืฉืœ ืกื‘ืชื™,
18:10
who committed suicide.
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"ืฉื”ืชืื‘ื“ื”.
18:12
As I unwrapped it, I began to cry,
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"ื›ืฉืคืชื—ืชื™ ืื•ืชื”, ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื‘ื›ื•ืช,
18:15
and my mother came over and said,
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"ื•ืืžื™ ื‘ืื” ื•ืฉืืœื”,
18:17
'Are you crying because of the relatives you never knew?'
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"'ืืชื” ื‘ื•ื›ื” ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืงืจื•ื‘ืช ื”ืžืฉืคื—ื” ืฉืœื ื–ื›ื™ืช ืœื”ื›ื™ืจ?'
"ื•ืื ื™ ืขื ื™ืชื™: 'ื”ื™ืชื” ืœื” ืื•ืชื” ืžื—ืœื” ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื™.'
18:21
And I said, 'She had the same disease I have.'
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18:25
I'm crying now as I write to you.
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"ืื ื™ ื‘ื•ื›ื” ื›ืขืช, ื›ืฉืื ื™ ื›ื•ืชื‘ ืœืš.
18:27
It's not that I'm so sad, but I get overwhelmed,
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"ืœื ืฉืื ื™ ื›ืœ-ื›ืš ืขืฆื•ื‘,
"ืื‘ืœ ื”ืจื’ืฉื•ืช ืžืฆื™ืคื™ื ืื•ืชื™,
18:31
I think, because I could have killed myself,
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"ื›ื™ ื ืจืื” ืœื™ ืฉื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ืจื•ื’ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™,
18:33
but my parents kept me going, and so did the doctors,
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"ืื‘ืœ ื”ื•ืจื™ ืฉืžืจื• ืขืœื™,
"ื•ื›ืš ื’ื ื”ืจื•ืคืื™ื,
18:36
and I had the surgery.
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"ื•ืขื‘ืจืชื™ ืืช ื”ื ื™ืชื•ื—.
18:38
I'm alive and grateful.
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"ืื ื™ ื—ื™ ื•ืื ื™ ืืกื™ืจ-ืชื•ื“ื”.
18:41
We live in the right time, even if it doesn't always feel like it."
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"ืื ื• ื—ื™ื™ื ื‘ืชืงื•ืคื” ื”ื ื›ื•ื ื”,
"ื’ื ืื ืœื ืชืžื™ื“ ืื ื• ืžืจื’ื™ืฉื™ื ืฉื–ื” ื›ืš."
18:47
I was struck by the fact that depression
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ื”ืจืฉื™ืžื” ืื•ืชื™ ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื” ืฉื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
18:49
is broadly perceived to be a modern, Western, middle-class thing,
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ื ืชืคืฉ ื‘ืจื‘ื™ื
ื›ืžืฉื”ื• ืžื•ื“ืจื ื™, ืžืขืจื‘ื™, ืฉืœ ื”ืžืขืžื“ ื”ื‘ื™ื ื•ื ื™,
18:54
and I went to look at how it operated in a variety of other contexts,
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ื•ืจืฆื™ืชื™ ืœื‘ื“ื•ืง ืืช ืื•ืคืŸ ืคืขื•ืœืชื• ื‘ืžื’ื•ื•ืŸ ื”ืงืฉืจื™ื ืื—ืจื™ื,
18:58
and one of the things I was most interested in
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ื•ืื—ื“ ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื”ื›ื™ ืขื ื™ื™ื ื• ืื•ืชื™
19:01
was depression among the indigent.
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ื”ื™ื” ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื‘ืงืจื‘ ื”ืขื ื™ื™ื.
ืื– ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœื ืกื•ืช ืœื‘ื“ื•ืง ืžื” ื ืขืฉื” ืœืžืขืŸ ืขื ื™ื™ื ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ.
19:03
And so I went out to try to look
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19:04
at what was being done for poor people with depression.
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19:07
And what I discovered is that poor people
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ื•ืžื” ืฉื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™ ื”ื•ื ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ืขื ื™ื™ื
19:09
are mostly not being treated for depression.
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ื‘ื“"ื› ืœื ื–ื•ื›ื™ื ืœื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื ื’ื“ ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ.
ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื”ื•ื ืชื•ืฆืื” ืฉืœ ืคื’ื™ืขื•ึผืช ื’ื ื˜ื™ืช,
19:12
Depression is the result of a genetic vulnerability,
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19:14
which is presumably evenly distributed in the population,
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ืฉืœืคื™ ื”ื”ื ื—ื” ื ืคื•ืฆื” ื‘ืžื™ื“ื” ืฉื•ื•ื” ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ืื•ื›ืœื•ืกื™ื”,
19:18
and triggering circumstances,
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ื•ื™ืฉ ื ืกื™ื‘ื•ืช-ื—ื™ื™ื ืฉืžืขื•ืจืจื•ืช ืื•ืชื•,
19:19
which are likely to be more severe for people who are impoverished.
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ื•ืกื‘ื™ืจ ืฉื”ืŸ ืชื”ื™ื™ื ื” ื—ืžื•ืจื•ืช ื™ื•ืชืจ
ืืฆืœ ืื ืฉื™ื ื“ืœื™-ืืžืฆืขื™ื.
19:23
And yet it turns out that if you have a really lovely life
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ื•ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืืช ืžืกืชื‘ืจ ืฉืื ื™ืฉ ืœื›ื
ื—ื™ื™ื ืžืžืฉ ื ื—ืžื“ื™ื, ืืš ืืชื ื—ืฉื™ื ืื•ืžืœืœื™ื ื›ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ,
19:27
but feel miserable all the time,
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19:28
you think, "Why do I feel like this?
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ืืชื ื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื: "ืžื“ื•ืข ืื ื™ ื—ืฉ ื›ืš?
19:30
I must have depression."
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"ื•ื“ืื™ ื™ืฉ ืœื™ ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ."
19:32
And you set out to find treatment for it.
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ื•ืืชื ื™ื•ืฆืื™ื ืœื—ืคืฉ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ.
ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ืฉ ืœื›ื ื—ื™ื™ื ืื™ื•ืžื™ื ื•ื ื•ืจืื™ื,
19:34
But if you have a perfectly awful life,
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19:36
and you feel miserable all the time,
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ื•ืืชื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉื™ื ืื•ืžืœืœื™ื ื›ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ,
19:37
the way you feel is commensurate with your life,
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ื”ืจื’ืฉืชื ืขื•ืœื” ื‘ืงื ื” ืื—ื“ ืขื ืื•ืจื— ื—ื™ื™ื›ื,
19:40
and it doesn't occur to you to think,
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ื•ืœื ืขื•ืœื” ืขืœ ื“ืขืชื›ื ื”ืžื—ืฉื‘ื”:
19:42
"Maybe this is treatable."
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"ืื•ืœื™ ืืคืฉืจ ืœื˜ืคืœ ื‘ื–ื”."
19:44
And so we have an epidemic in this country
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ื›ืš ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ืžื’ืคื” ื‘ืืจืฅ ื”ื–ื•,
19:47
of depression among impoverished people
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ืฉืœ ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื‘ืงืจื‘ ื“ืœื™-ื”ืืžืฆืขื™ื
19:50
that's not being picked up and that's not being treated
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ืฉืื™ื ื ื• ืžืื•ื‘ื—ืŸ, ืื™ื ื ื• ื–ื•ื›ื” ืœื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ
19:52
and that's not being addressed,
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ื•ืื™ื ื ื• ื–ื•ื›ื” ืœื”ืชื™ื™ื—ืกื•ืช,
19:54
and it's a tragedy of a grand order.
426
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ื•ื–ื• ื˜ืจื’ื“ื™ื” ื‘ืžืžื“ื™ื ืขืฆื•ืžื™ื.
19:57
And so I found an academic
427
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ืื– ืžืฆืืชื™ ืืฉืช-ืืงื“ืžื™ื”
19:58
who was doing a research project in slums outside of D.C.,
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ืฉืขืจื›ื” ืžื™ื–ื ืžื—ืงืจ
ื‘ืžืฉื›ื ื•ืช-ืขื•ื ื™ ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœื•ื•ืฉื™ื ื’ื˜ื•ืŸ,
20:02
where she picked up women who had come in for other health problems
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ื•ื‘ื• ื‘ื—ืจื” ื ืฉื™ื ืฉื”ื’ื™ืขื• ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื‘ืขื™ื•ืช ื‘ืจื™ืื•ืชื™ื•ืช ืื—ืจื•ืช,
20:05
and diagnosed them with depression,
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ื•ืื™ื‘ื—ื ื” ืืฆืœืŸ ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ,
ื•ืื– ื ืชื ื” ืœื”ืŸ 6 ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื ืฉืœ ื ื•ื”ืœ ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื”ื ืกื™ื•ื ื™.
20:07
and then provided six months of the experimental protocol.
431
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20:10
One of them, Lolly, came in,
432
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ืื—ืช ืžื”ืŸ, ืœื•ืœื™, ื”ืฆื˜ืจืคื” ืœื ื™ืกื•ื™,
20:12
and this is what she said the day she came in.
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ื•ื–ื” ืžื” ืฉื”ื™ื ืืžืจื” ื‘ื™ื•ื ื‘ื• ื”ืฆื˜ืจืคื”.
ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื” - ื•ืžื“ื•ื‘ืจ ื‘ืื™ืฉื”, ื“ืจืš ืื’ื‘,
20:15
She said, and she was a woman, by the way, who had seven children.
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ืฉื™ืœื“ื” 7 ื™ืœื“ื™ื. ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”:
20:19
She said, "I used to have a job but I had to give it up
435
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"ืคืขื ื”ื™ืชื” ืœื™ ืขื‘ื•ื“ื”, ืื‘ืœ ื ืืœืฆืชื™ ืœื•ื•ืชืจ ืขืœื™ื”
20:22
because I couldn't go out of the house.
436
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"ื›ื™ ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœืฆืืช ืžื”ื‘ื™ืช.
"ืื™ืŸ ืœื™ ืžื” ืœื•ืžืจ ืœื™ืœื“ื™.
20:25
I have nothing to say to my children.
437
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20:27
In the morning, I can't wait for them to leave,
438
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"ื‘ื‘ื•ืงืจ ืื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืฉื”ื ื›ื‘ืจ ื™ื™ืœื›ื•,
20:29
and then I climb in bed and pull the covers over my head,
439
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"ื•ืื– ืื ื™ ื ื›ื ืกืช ืœืžื™ื˜ื” ื•ืžื•ืฉื›ืช ืืช ื”ืฉืžื™ื›ื” ืžืขืœ ืœืจืืฉ,
"ื•ื”ืฉืขื” ืฉืœื•ืฉ, ื›ืฉื”ื ื—ื•ื–ืจื™ื ื”ื‘ื™ืชื”,
20:33
and three o'clock when they come home,
440
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"ืžื’ื™ืขื” ื›ืœ-ื›ืš ืžื”ืจ."
20:35
it just comes so fast."
441
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20:36
She said, "I've been taking a lot of Tylenol,
442
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ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”: "ืœืงื—ืชื™ ื”ืžื•ืŸ ืžืฉื›ื›ื™ ื›ืื‘ื™ื,
20:38
anything I can take so that I can sleep more.
443
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"ืœืงื—ืชื™ ื›ืœ ืžื” ืฉืืคืฉืจ ืœืงื—ืช ื›ื“ื™ ืฉืื•ื›ืœ ืœื™ืฉื•ืŸ ื™ื•ืชืจ.
20:41
My husband has been telling me I'm stupid, I'm ugly.
444
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"ื‘ืขืœื™ ื ื”ื’ ืœื•ืžืจ ืœื™ ืฉืื ื™ ื˜ื™ืคืฉื” ื•ืžื›ื•ืขืจืช.
20:45
I wish I could stop the pain."
445
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"ื”ืœื•ื•ืื™ ื•ื™ื›ื•ืœืชื™ ืœื”ืคืกื™ืง ืืช ื”ื›ืื‘."
20:48
Well, she was brought into this experimental protocol,
446
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ื”ื™ื ื”ื•ื›ื ืกื” ืœื ื•ื”ืœ ื”ื ืกื™ื•ื ื™ ื”ื”ื•ื,
20:51
and when I interviewed her six months later,
447
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ื•ื›ืฉืจืื™ื™ื ืชื™ ืื•ืชื” ืื—ืจื™ 6 ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ื,
20:53
she had taken a job working in childcare
448
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ื”ื™ื ืžืฆืื” ืขื‘ื•ื“ื” ื‘ืžืขื•ืŸ-ื™ื•ื ืœื™ืœื“ื™ื-- [ืฆื—ื•ืง]
20:58
for the U.S. Navy, she had left the abusive husband,
449
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--ืฉืœ ืฆื™ ืืจื”"ื‘, ื”ื™ื ืขื–ื‘ื” ืืช ื‘ืขืœื” ื”ืžืชืขืœืœ,
ื•ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื” ืœื™:
21:02
and she said to me,
450
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"ื™ืœื“ื™ ื”ืจื‘ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืื•ืฉืจื™ื ืขื›ืฉื™ื•."
21:04
"My kids are so much happier now."
451
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21:06
She said, "There's one room in my new place for the boys
452
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ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”: "ื™ืฉ ื—ื“ืจ ืื—ื“ ื‘ื‘ื™ืช ื”ื—ื“ืฉ ืฉืœื™ ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ื‘ื ื™ื,
21:09
and one room for the girls,
453
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"ื•ื—ื“ืจ ืื—ื“ ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ื‘ื ื•ืช
"ืื‘ืœ ื‘ืขืจื‘ ื›ื•ืœื ื‘ืื™ื ืืœื™ ืœืžื™ื˜ื”,
21:11
but at night, they're just all up on my bed,
454
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21:13
and we're doing homework all together and everything.
455
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"ื•ืื ื• ืžื›ื™ื ื™ื ื‘ื™ื—ื“ ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™-ื‘ื™ืช ื•ื”ื›ืœ.
21:16
One of them wants to be a preacher,
456
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"ืื—ื“ ืžื”ื ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžื˜ื™ืฃ,
21:17
one of them wants to be a firefighter,
457
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"ื”ืฉื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื›ื‘ืื™,
21:19
and one of the girls says she's going to be a lawyer.
458
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"ื•ืื—ืช ื”ื‘ื ื•ืช ืื•ืžืจืช ืฉื”ื™ื ืชื”ื™ื” ืขื•ืจื›ืช-ื“ื™ืŸ.
21:22
They don't cry like they used to,
459
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"ื”ื ื›ื‘ืจ ืœื ื‘ื•ื›ื™ื ื›ืžื• ืคืขื,
21:24
and they don't fight like they did.
460
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"ื•ื”ื ื›ื‘ืจ ืœื ืจื‘ื™ื ื›ืžื• ืคืขื.
"ื›ืœ ืžื” ืฉืื ื™ ืฆืจื™ื›ื” ืขื›ืฉื™ื• ื”ื ื”ื™ืœื“ื™ื ืฉืœื™.
21:27
That's all I need now, is my kids.
461
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21:30
Things keep on changing,
462
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"ื›ืœ ืžืฉืชื ื” ืืฆืœื™;
21:32
the way I dress, the way I feel, the way I act.
463
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"ืื™ืš ืื ื™ ืžืชืœื‘ืฉืช, ืื™ืš ืื ื™ ืžืจื’ื™ืฉื”, ืื™ืš ืื ื™ ืžืชื ื”ื’ืช.
21:37
I can go outside not being afraid anymore,
464
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"ืื ื™ ื›ื‘ืจ ื™ื›ื•ืœื” ืœืฆืืช ืžื”ื‘ื™ืช ื‘ืœื™ ืœืคื—ื“,
21:41
and I don't think those bad feelings are coming back,
465
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"ื•ืœื ื ืจืื” ืœื™ ืฉื”ืจื’ืฉื•ืช ื”ืจืขื™ื ื™ื—ื–ืจื•,
"ื•ืื™ืœื•ืœื ื“"ืจ ืžื™ืจื ื“ื” ื•ื”ื›ืœ,
21:45
and if it weren't for Dr. Miranda and that,
466
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"ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื‘ื‘ื™ืช ืขื ื”ืฉืžื™ื›ื” ืžืขืœ ืœืจืืฉ,
21:48
I would still be at home with the covers pulled over my head,
467
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21:51
if I were still alive at all.
468
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"ืื ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ื›ืœืœ ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื‘ื—ื™ื™ื.
"ื‘ื™ืงืฉืชื™ ืžืืœื•ื”ื™ื ืœืฉืœื•ื— ืœื™ ืžืœืืš,
21:54
I asked the Lord to send me an angel,
469
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21:57
and He heard my prayers."
470
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"ื•ื”ื•ื ืฉืžืข ืืช ืชืคื™ืœื•ืชื™."
ื”ืชืจื’ืฉืชื™ ืžืื“ ืœืฉืžืข ื ืกื™ื•ื ื•ืช ื”ื—ื™ื™ื ื”ืืœื”,
22:02
I was really moved by these experiences,
471
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22:05
and I decided that I wanted to write about them
472
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ื•ื”ื—ืœื˜ืชื™ ืœื›ืชื•ื‘ ืขืœื™ื”ื
22:07
not only in a book I was working on, but also in an article,
473
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ืœื ืจืง ื‘ืกืคืจ ืฉืขื‘ื“ืชื™ ืขืœื™ื•,
ืืœื ื’ื ื‘ืžืืžืจ,
22:10
and I got a commission from The New York Times Magazine
474
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ืื– ื”ืฉื’ืชื™ ื”ื–ืžื ื” ืžื”"ื ื™ื•-ื™ื•ืจืง ื˜ื™ื™ืžืก"
ืœื›ืชื•ื‘ ืื•ื“ื•ืช ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื‘ืงืจื‘ ื”ืขื ื™ื™ื.
22:13
to write about depression among the indigent.
475
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ื”ื’ืฉืชื™ ืืช ื”ื›ืชื‘ื” ืฉืœื™,
22:15
And I turned in my story,
476
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22:16
and my editor called me and said, "We really can't publish this."
477
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ื•ื”ืขื•ืจื›ืช ืงืจืื” ืœื™ ื•ืืžืจื”:
"ืื ื• ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืคืจืกื ืืช ื–ื”."
ืฉืืœืชื™: "ืœืžื” ืœื?"
22:20
And I said, "Why not?"
478
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22:21
And she said, "It just is too far-fetched.
479
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ื”ื™ื ืขื ืชื”: "ื–ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื“ื™ ื“ืžื™ื•ื ื™.
22:23
These people who are sort of at the very bottom rung of society
480
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"ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื”ืืœื” ื ืžืฆืื™ื ื‘ืชื—ืชื™ืช ื”ื—ื‘ืจื”
22:27
and then they get a few months of treatment
481
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"ื•ืื– ื”ื ืžืงื‘ืœื™ื ื›ืžื” ื—ื•ื“ืฉื™ ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ
22:29
and they're virtually ready to run Morgan Stanley?
482
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"ื•ืคืชืื•ื ื”ื ืžื•ื›ื ื™ื ืœื ื”ืœ ื‘ื ืง-ื”ืฉืงืขื•ืช?
"ื–ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื“ื™ ื‘ืœืชื™-ืกื‘ื™ืจ."
22:32
It's just too implausible."
483
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ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”: "ืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ืฉืžืขืชื™ ืขืœ ืžืฉื”ื• ื›ื–ื”."
22:34
She said, "I've never even heard of anything like it."
484
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22:36
And I said, "The fact that you've never heard of it
485
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ืขื ื™ืชื™ ืœื”: "ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื” ืฉืœื ืฉืžืขืช ืขืœ ื–ื”,
"ื”ื™ื ื”ื•ื›ื—ื” ื‘ืจื•ืจื” ืœื›ืš ืฉืืœื” ื—ื“ืฉื•ืช."
22:39
is an indication that it is news."
486
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22:41
(Laughter)
487
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[ืฆื—ื•ืง] [ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื]
22:45
(Applause)
488
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22:49
"And you are a news magazine."
489
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"ื•ืืชื ื›ืชื‘-ืขืช ื—ื“ืฉื•ืชื™."
22:51
So after a certain amount of negotiation, they agreed to it.
490
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ืื– ืื—ืจื™ ืžื™ื“ื” ืžืกื•ื™ืžืช ืฉืœ ืžืฉื ื•ืžืชืŸ,
ื”ื ื”ืกื›ื™ืžื• ืœื›ืš.
22:55
But I think a lot of what they said was connected in some strange way
491
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ื”ืจื‘ื” ืฉืžื” ืฉื”ื ืืžืจื•
ืงืฉื•ืจ ื‘ืื™ื–ื• ื“ืจืš ืžืฉื•ื ื”
22:58
to this distaste that people still have for the idea of treatment,
492
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ืœืฉืื˜-ื”ื ืคืฉ ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื—ืฉื™ื ื›ืœืคื™ ืจืขื™ื•ืŸ ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ:
23:02
the notion that somehow if we went out
493
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ื”ืจืขื™ื•ืŸ ืฉืื ื ืฆื ืื™ื›ืฉื”ื• ื•ื ื˜ืคืœ ื‘ื”ืžื•ืŸ ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ืงื”ื™ืœื•ืช ื”ืขื ื™ื•ืช,
23:04
and treated a lot of people in indigent communities,
494
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23:07
that would be exploitative,
495
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ื–ื” ื™ื”ื™ื” ื ืฆืœื ื™, ื›ื™ ื‘ื›ืš ื ืฉื ื” ืื•ืชื.
23:09
because we would be changing them.
496
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23:10
There is this false moral imperative that seems to be all around us,
497
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ื™ืฉ ืžื™ืŸ ืฆื• ืžื•ืกืจื™ ื›ื•ื–ื‘ ื ืคื•ืฅ ืžืื“, ื›ื ืจืื”,
23:14
that treatment of depression,
498
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ืœืคื™ื• ื”ื˜ื™ืคื•ืœ ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ,
23:16
the medications and so on, are an artifice,
499
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ื”ืชืจื•ืคื•ืช ื•ื›ืŸ ื”ืœืื”, ื”ืŸ ืชื—ื‘ื•ืœื” ืžืœืื›ื•ืชื™ืช,
23:19
and that it's not natural.
500
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ื•ืฉื–ื” ืœื ื˜ื‘ืขื™.
23:21
And I think that's very misguided.
501
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ื•ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ ืฉื–ื” ืžื•ื˜ืขื” ืžืื“.
23:24
It would be natural for people's teeth to fall out,
502
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ื ืฉื™ืจืช ืฉื™ื ื™ื™ื ื”ื™ื ื“ื‘ืจ ื˜ื‘ืขื™,
23:27
but there is nobody militating against toothpaste,
503
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ืื‘ืœ ืื™ืฉ ืื™ื ื• ื™ื•ืฆื ื ื’ื“ ืžืฉื—ื•ืช ื”ืฉื™ื ื™ื™ื,
23:31
at least not in my circles.
504
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ืœืคื—ื•ืช ืœื ื‘ื—ื•ื’ื™ื ืฉืœื™.
23:33
People then say,
505
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ื•ืื ืฉื™ื ื’ื ืื•ืžืจื™ื: "ืื‘ืœ ื”ืื ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ
23:35
"But isn't depression part of what people are supposed to experience?
506
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"ืื™ื ื ื• ื—ืœืง ืžืžื” ืฉืื ืฉื™ื ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœื—ื•ื•ืช?
"ื”ืื ื–ื” ืœื ื—ืœืง ืžื”ืื‘ื•ืœื•ืฆื™ื”?
23:38
Didn't we evolve to have depression?
507
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"ื”ืื ื–ื” ืœื ื—ืœืง ืžื”ืื™ืฉื™ื•ืช?"
23:40
Isn't it part of your personality?"
508
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23:41
To which I would say, mood is adaptive.
509
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ื•ืขืœ ื›ืš ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืขื•ื ื”, ืฉืžืฆื‘ ื”ืจื•ื— ื”ื•ื ืกืชื’ืœื ื™.
23:44
Being able to have sadness and fear
510
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ื”ื™ื›ื•ืœืช ืœื—ื•ื•ืช ืขืฆื‘ ื•ืคื—ื“, ื—ื“ื•ื•ื” ื•ืขื•ื ื’,
23:47
and joy and pleasure
511
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1906
23:49
and all of the other moods that we have, that's incredibly valuable.
512
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ื•ื›ืœ ื™ืชืจ ืžืฆื‘ื™ ื”ืจื•ื— ืฉืœื ื•,
ื™ืฉ ื‘ื›ืš ืขืจืš ืขืฆื•ื.
23:53
And major depression
513
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1914
ื•ืื™ืœื• ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื—ืžื•ืจ ื”ื•ื ืžืฉื”ื• ืฉืงื•ืจื”
23:55
is something that happens when that system gets broken.
514
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ื›ืฉื”ืžืขืจื›ืช ื”ื–ืืช ืžืชืงืœืงืœืช.
23:58
It's maladaptive.
515
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1604
ื–ื”ื• ื—ื•ืกืจ-ื”ืกืชื’ืœื•ืช.
24:00
People will come to me and say,
516
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ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ืื™ื ืืœื™ ื•ืื•ืžืจื™ื:
24:01
"I think, though, if I just stick it out for another year,
517
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"ืื ืจืง ืื—ื–ื™ืง ืžืขืžื“ ืขื•ื“ ืฉื ื”,
24:04
I think I can just get through this."
518
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"ืื•ื›ืœ ืœืขื‘ื•ืจ ืืช ื–ื”."
24:06
And I always say to them, "You may get through it,
519
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ื•ืื ื™ ืชืžื™ื“ ืขื•ื ื” ืœื”ื: "ืื•ืœื™ ืชืขื‘ื•ืจ ืืช ื–ื”,
"ืื‘ืœ ืœืขื•ืœื ืœื ืชื”ื™ื” ืฉื•ื‘ ื‘ืŸ 37.
24:09
but you'll never be 37 again.
520
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2190
24:11
Life is short, and that's a whole year you're talking about giving up.
521
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"ื”ื—ื™ื™ื ืงืฆืจื™ื,
"ื•ืืชื” ืžื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ืฉื ื” ืฉืœืžื” ืฉืœ ื”ืจืžืช-ื™ื“ื™ื™ื.
24:15
Think it through."
522
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"ืชื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืขืœ ื–ื” ื˜ื•ื‘."
24:17
It's a strange poverty of the English language,
523
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ื–ืืช ื“ืœื•ืช ืžืฉื•ื ื” ืฉืœ ื”ืฉืคื” ื”ืื ื’ืœื™ืช,
24:20
and indeed of many other languages,
524
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ื•ื‘ืขืฆื ืฉืœ ื”ืจื‘ื” ืฉืคื•ืช ืื—ืจื•ืช,
24:22
that we use this same word, depression,
525
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ื›ืฉืื ื• ืžืฉืชืžืฉื™ื ื‘ืื•ืชื” ื”ืžื™ืœื”, "ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ",
24:24
to describe how a kid feels when it rains on his birthday,
526
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ื›ื“ื™ ืœืชืืจ ืื™ืš ื™ืœื“ ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ
ื›ืฉื™ื•ืจื“ ื’ืฉื ื‘ื™ื•ื ื”ื”ื•ืœื“ืช ืฉืœื•,
24:28
and to describe how somebody feels the minute before they commit suicide.
527
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ื•ื’ื ื›ื“ื™ ืœืชืืจ ืื™ืš ืžื™ืฉื”ื• ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ
ื‘ื“ืงื” ืฉืœืคื ื™ ื”ืชืื‘ื“ื•ืชื•.
24:33
People say to me, "Well, is it continuous with normal sadness?"
528
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ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื•ืืœื™ื ืื•ืชื™: "ื”ืื ื–ื” ื ื•ื‘ืข ืžืขืฆื‘ ืจื’ื™ืœ?"
24:36
And I say, in a way it's continuous with normal sadness.
529
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ื•ืื ื™ ืขื•ื ื”: "ื‘ืžื•ื‘ืŸ ืžืกื•ื™ื, ื–ื” ื ื•ื‘ืข ืžืขืฆื‘ ืจื’ื™ืœ.
24:39
There is a certain amount of continuity,
530
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"ื™ืฉ ืžื™ื“ื” ืžืกื•ื™ืžืช ืฉืœ ื”ืžืฉื›ื™ื•ืช,
24:41
but it's the same way there's continuity
531
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"ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ื›ืžื• ื”ื”ืžืฉื›ื™ื•ืช,
24:43
between having an iron fence outside your house
532
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2206
"ืฉื‘ื™ืŸ ืžืฆื‘ ืฉื™ืฉ ืœืš ื’ื“ืจ ื‘ืจื–ืœ ืกื‘ื™ื‘ ื”ื‘ื™ืช,
"ื•ืžื•ืคื™ืข ื‘ื” ื›ืชื ื—ืœื•ื“ื”
24:46
that gets a little rust spot
533
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1420
24:47
that you have to sand off and do a little repainting,
534
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"ืฉื“ื•ืจืฉ ืžืžืš ืงืฆืช ืœื™ื˜ื•ืฉ ื•ืฆื‘ื™ืขื”,
24:50
and what happens if you leave the house for 100 years
535
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"ืœื‘ื™ืŸ ืžื” ืฉื™ืงืจื” ืื ืชื–ื ื™ื— ืืช ื”ื‘ื™ืช ืœืžืฉืš 100 ืฉื ื”
24:52
and it rusts through until it's only a pile of orange dust.
536
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"ื•ื”ื•ื ืžื—ืœื™ื“ ืขื“ ืฉื”ื•ื ื”ื•ืคืš ืœืขืจื™ืžื”
"ืฉืœ ื—ืœื•ื“ื” ื—ื•ืžื”.
"ื•ืื•ืชื• ื›ืชื ื—ืœื•ื“ื” ื—ื•ื,
24:57
And it's that orange dust spot,
537
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24:58
that orange dust problem,
538
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"ืื•ืชื” ื‘ืขื™ื™ืช ื—ืœื•ื“ื” ื—ื•ืžื”,
25:00
that's the one we're setting out to address.
539
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"ื”ื™ื ื–ื• ืฉื‘ื” ืื ื• ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœื˜ืคืœ."
ืื– ื›ืขืช ืื ืฉื™ื ืื•ืžืจื™ื:
25:04
So now people say,
540
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"ืืชื” ืœื•ืงื— ืืช ื’ืœื•ืœื•ืช ื”ืื•ืฉืจ ื”ืืœื”, ืื– ืืชื” ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ืžืื•ืฉืจ?"
25:06
"You take these happy pills, and do you feel happy?"
541
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25:08
And I don't.
542
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1190
ื•ืื ื™ ืœื.
25:10
But I don't feel sad about having to eat lunch,
543
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืœื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ืขืฆื•ื‘ ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื”ืฆื•ืจืš ืœืื›ื•ืœ ืืจื•ื—ืช-ืฆื”ืจื™ื™ื,
25:13
and I don't feel sad about my answering machine,
544
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ื•ืื ื™ ืœื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ืขืฆื•ื‘ ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื”ืžืฉื™ื‘ื•ืŸ ืฉืœื™,
25:16
and I don't feel sad about taking a shower.
545
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2198
ื•ืื ื™ ืœื ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ืขืฆื•ื‘ ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืžืงืœื—ืช.
25:19
I feel more, in fact, I think,
546
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ืื ื™ ืžืจื’ื™ืฉ ื‘ืขืฆื ื™ื•ืชืจ, ื›ืš ื ืจืื” ืœื™,
25:21
because I can feel sadness without nullity.
547
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2406
ื›ื™ ืื ื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ืจื’ื™ืฉ ืขืฆื‘ ื‘ืœื™ ืœื”ืจื’ื™ืฉ ืืคืก.
25:24
I feel sad about professional disappointments,
548
1524704
4206
ืื ื™ ื—ืฉ ืขืฆื‘ ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืื›ื–ื‘ื•ืช ืžืงืฆื•ืขื™ื•ืช,
25:28
about damaged relationships,
549
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2284
ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื™ื—ืกื™ื ืฉื ืคื’ืขื•,
25:31
about global warming.
550
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ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื”ื”ืชื—ืžืžื•ืช ื”ื’ืœื•ื‘ืœื™ืช.
25:33
Those are the things that I feel sad about now.
551
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2701
ื”ื™ื•ื ืืœื” ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉื‘ื’ืœืœื ืื ื™ ื—ืฉ ืขืฆื‘.
25:35
And I said to myself, well, what is the conclusion?
552
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ื•ืฉืืœืชื™ ืืช ืขืฆืžื™: "ืื– ืžื” ื”ืžืกืงื ื”?
25:38
How did those people who have better lives
553
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"ืื™ืš ืื•ืชื ืื ืฉื™ื, ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื”ื ื—ื™ื™ื ื˜ื•ื‘ื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ
25:41
even with bigger depression manage to get through?
554
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"ื•ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ื’ื“ื•ืœ ืขื•ื“ ื™ื•ืชืจ, ื”ืฆืœื™ื—ื• ืœืขื‘ื•ืจ ืืช ื–ื”?
25:43
What is the mechanism of resilience?
555
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2151
"ืžื”ื• ืžื ื’ื ื•ืŸ ื”ื’ืžื™ืฉื•ืช?"
25:46
And what I came up with over time
556
1546583
1962
ื•ื”ืžืกืงื ื” ืฉื”ื’ืขืชื™ ืืœื™ื” ืขื ื”ื–ืžืŸ
25:48
was that the people who deny their experience,
557
1548569
2826
ื”ื™ื ืฉื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืžืชื›ื—ืฉื™ื ืœื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ืฉืœื”ื,
25:51
and say, "I was depressed a long time ago,
558
1551419
2016
ืฉืื•ืžืจื™ื: "ืœืคื ื™ ื”ืจื‘ื” ื–ืžืŸ ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžื“ื•ื›ื,
25:53
I never want to think about it again,
559
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"ื•ืื ื™ ืœื ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืขืœ ื–ื” ื™ื•ืชืจ
25:55
I'm not going to look at it
560
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1294
"ื•ืื ื™ ืœื ืžืชื›ื•ื•ืŸ ืœื”ืชื™ื™ื—ืก ืœื–ื”
25:56
and I'm just going to get on with my life,"
561
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"ื•ืคืฉื•ื˜ ืืžืฉื™ืš ืขื ื”ื—ื™ื™ื ืฉืœื™",
25:58
ironically, those are the people who are most enslaved by what they have.
562
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ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืื™ืจื•ื ื™, ืืœื” ื”ืื ืฉื™ื
ืฉื”ื›ื™ ืžืฉื•ืขื‘ื“ื™ื ืœืžื” ืฉื”ื ืกื•ื‘ืœื™ื ืžืžื ื•.
26:03
Shutting out the depression strengthens it.
563
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2198
ื”ื“ื—ืงืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืžื—ื–ืงืช ืื•ืชื•.
26:05
While you hide from it, it grows.
564
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ื›ืฉืžืกืชืชืจื™ื ืžืคื ื™ื•, ื”ื•ื ื’ื“ืœ.
ื•ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื—ื™ื™ื ื˜ื•ื‘ ื™ื•ืชืจ
26:09
And the people who do better
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26:11
are the ones who are able to tolerate the fact that they have this condition.
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ื”ื ืืœื” ืฉื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืฉืืช ืืช ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื”
ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื”ื ื”ืžื—ืœื” ื”ื–ืืช.
ืืœื” ืฉื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขืžื•ื“ ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืฉืœื”ื
26:16
Those who can tolerate their depression are the ones who achieve resilience.
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ื”ื ืืœื” ืฉืžืฉื™ื’ื™ื ื’ืžื™ืฉื•ืช.
26:20
So Frank Russakoff said to me,
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ืคืจื ืง ืจื•ืกืืงื•ืฃ ืืžืจ ืœื™:
26:22
"If I had a do-over, I suppose I wouldn't do it this way,
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"ืื ื”ื™ื” ืขืœื™ ืœืขื‘ื•ืจ ื–ืืช ืฉื•ื‘,
"ืื•ืœื™ ืœื ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืขื•ืฉื” ื–ืืช ื‘ืื•ืชื” ื“ืจืš,
26:25
but in a strange way, I'm grateful for what I've experienced.
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"ืื‘ืœ ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืžื•ื–ืจ ืื ื™ ืืกื™ืจ-ืชื•ื“ื”
"ืขืœ ืžื” ืฉื—ื•ื•ื™ืชื™.
26:29
I'm glad to have been in the hospital 40 times.
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"ืื ื™ ืฉืžื— ืขืœ ื›ืš ืฉืื•ืฉืคื–ืชื™ 40 ืคืขื.
"ื–ื” ืœื™ืžื“ ืื•ืชื™ ื”ืžื•ืŸ ืขืœ ืื”ื‘ื”,
26:33
It taught me so much about love,
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26:35
and my relationship with my parents and my doctors
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"ื•ืžืขืจื›ืช ื”ื™ื—ืกื™ื ืฉืœื™ ืขื ื”ื•ืจื™ ื•ืจื•ืคืื™
26:38
has been so precious to me, and will be always."
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"ื”ื™ืชื” ืชืžื™ื“ ื™ืงืจื” ืœืœื‘ื™, ื•ืชืžื™ื“ ืชื”ื™ื”."
26:42
And Maggie Robbins said,
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ื•ืžื’ื™ ืจื•ื‘ื™ื ืก ืืžืจื”:
26:44
"I used to volunteer in an AIDS clinic,
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"ืคืขื ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžืชื ื“ื‘ืช ื‘ืžืจืคืืช ืื™ื™ื“ืก,
26:47
and I would just talk and talk and talk,
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"ื•ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืจืง ืžื“ื‘ืจืช ื•ืžื“ื‘ืจืช ื•ืžื“ื‘ืจืช,
26:50
and the people I was dealing with weren't very responsive, and I thought,
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"ื•ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืื™ืชื ื”ืชืขืกืงืชื™
"ืœื ืžืžืฉ ื”ื’ื™ื‘ื•, ื•ืื ื™ ื—ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืœืขืฆืžื™:
26:54
'That's not very friendly or helpful of them.'"
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"'ื–ื” ืœื ื™ืคื” ืื• ืžื•ืขื™ืœ ืžืฆื™ื“ื.'
26:57
(Laughter)
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26:58
"And then I realized,
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"ื•ืื– ื”ื‘ื ืชื™,
27:00
I realized that they weren't going to do more
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"ื”ื‘ื ืชื™ ืฉื”ื ืœื ื™ืขืฉื• ื™ื•ืชืจ
27:02
than make those first few minutes of small talk.
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"ืžืขื‘ืจ ืœืื•ืชืŸ ื“ืงื•ืช ืจืืฉื•ื ื•ืช ืฉืœ ืฉื™ื—ื” ื‘ื˜ืœื”.
27:04
It was simply going to be an occasion
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"ื–ื• ืชื™ืฉืืจ ืขื‘ื•ืจื ืจืง ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ืช
27:06
where I didn't have AIDS and I wasn't dying,
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"ืฉื‘ื” ืœื™ ืื™ืŸ ืื™ื™ื“ืก ื•ืื ื™ ืœื ื’ื•ืกืกืช,
27:09
but could tolerate the fact that they did
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"ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืžืกื•ื’ืœืช ืœืขืžื•ื“ ื‘ื›ืš
"ืฉื”ื ื›ืŸ ื—ื•ืœื™ื ื‘ืื™ื™ื“ืก ื•ืฉื”ื ื›ืŸ ื’ื•ืกืกื™ื.
27:12
and they were.
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27:14
Our needs are our greatest assets.
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"ื”ืฆืจื›ื™ื ืฉืœื ื• ื”ื ื”ื ื›ืกื™ื ื”ื›ื™ ื’ื“ื•ืœื™ื ืฉืœื ื•.
"ืžืกืชื‘ืจ ืฉืœืžื“ืชื™ ืœื”ืขื ื™ืง
27:18
It turns out I've learned to give all the things I need."
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"ืืช ื›ืœ ื”ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืฉืื ื™ ื–ืงื•ืงื” ืœื”ื."
27:24
Valuing one's depression does not prevent a relapse,
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ืžืชืŸ ืขืจืš ืœื“ื›ืื•ื ื• ืฉืœ ืื“ื ืื™ื ื• ืžื•ื ืข ื ืกื™ื’ื•ืช,
27:28
but it may make the prospect of relapse
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ืื‘ืœ ืื•ืœื™ ื‘ื–ื›ื•ืชื•, ื”ืกื™ื›ื•ื™ ืœื ืกื™ื’ื”
27:30
and even relapse itself easier to tolerate.
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ื•ืืฃ ื”ื ืกื™ื’ื” ืขืฆืžื”, ื™ื™ืขืฉื• ื ืกื‘ืœื™ื ื™ื•ืชืจ.
ืžื“ื•ื‘ืจ ืคื—ื•ืช
27:35
The question is not so much of finding great meaning
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ื‘ืžืฆื™ืืช ืžืฉืžืขื•ืช ื’ื“ื•ืœื” ื•ื‘ื”ื’ืขื” ืœืžืกืงื ื”
27:38
and deciding your depression has been very meaningful.
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ืฉื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืฉืœืš ื”ื™ื” ืžืื“ ืžืฉืžืขื•ืชื™.
27:41
It's of seeking that meaning and thinking, when it comes again,
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ืืœื ื™ื•ืชืจ ื‘ื—ื™ืคื•ืฉ ืื—ืจ ืื•ืชื” ืžืฉืžืขื•ืช
ื•ื‘ืžื—ืฉื‘ื”, ื›ืฉื–ื” ื™ื—ื–ื•ืจ:
27:45
"This will be hellish, but I will learn something from it."
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"ื–ื” ื™ื”ื™ื” ื’ื”ื™ื ื•ื,
"ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืืœืžื“ ืžื–ื” ืžืฉื”ื•."
27:49
I have learned in my own depression
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ื‘ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืฉืœื™ ืœืžื“ืชื™
27:51
how big an emotion can be,
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ืขื“ ื›ืžื” ืจื’ืฉ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ื—ื–ืง,
27:53
how it can be more real than facts,
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ืขื“ ื›ืžื” ื‘ื›ื•ื—ื• ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืืžื™ืชื™ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื•ืช,
ื•ื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™ ืฉืื•ืชื” ื—ื•ื•ื™ื” ืื™ืคืฉืจื” ืœื™ ืœื—ื•ื•ืช ืจื’ืฉ ื—ื™ื•ื‘ื™
27:57
and I have found that that experience
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27:59
has allowed me to experience positive emotion
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28:02
in a more intense and more focused way.
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ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืขื– ื•ืžืžื•ืงื“ ื™ื•ืชืจ.
28:06
The opposite of depression is not happiness,
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ื”ื”ื™ืคืš ืžื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืื™ื ื ื• ืื•ืฉืจ,
28:09
but vitality,
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ืืœื ื—ื™ื•ื ื™ื•ืช,
28:11
and these days, my life is vital,
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ื•ื›ื™ื•ื, ื™ืฉ ื‘ื—ื™ื™ ื—ื™ื•ื ื™ื•ืช,
ืืคื™ืœื• ื‘ื™ืžื™ื ืฉื‘ื”ื ืื ื™ ืขืฆื•ื‘.
28:14
even on the days when I'm sad.
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28:16
I felt that funeral in my brain,
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ื”ืจื’ืฉืชื™ ื‘ืื•ืชื” ืœื•ื•ื™ื™ื” ื‘ืžื•ื—ื™,
28:19
and I sat next to the colossus at the edge of the world,
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ื•ื”ืชื™ื™ืฉื‘ืชื™ ืœืฆื™ื“ื• ืฉืœ ื”ืขื ืง
ื‘ืงืฆื” ื”ืขื•ืœื,
28:24
and I have discovered something inside of myself
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ื•ื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™
ืžืฉื”ื• ื‘ืชื•ื›ื›ื™ ืขืฆืžื™
28:28
that I would have to call a soul
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ืฉืื•ืชื• ืžืŸ ื”ืกืชื ืื›ื ื” "ื ืฉืžื”",
28:30
that I had never formulated until that day 20 years ago
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ื•ืฉืื•ืชื• ืœื ื ื™ืกื—ืชื™ ืœืขืฆืžื™ ืขื“ ืื•ืชื• ื™ื•ื, ืœืคื ื™ 20 ืฉื ื”,
28:34
when hell came to pay me a surprise visit.
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ื›ืฉื”ื’ื”ื™ื ื•ื ื‘ื ืืœื™ ืœื‘ื™ืงื•ืจ-ืคืชืข.
28:38
I think that while I hated being depressed
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ื ืจืื” ืœื™ ืฉืืฃ ืฉืฉื ืืชื™ ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžื“ื•ื›ื
28:42
and would hate to be depressed again,
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ื•ืฉืœื ืืฉืžื— ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืฉื•ื‘ ืžื“ื•ื›ื,
28:45
I've found a way to love my depression.
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ื”ืจื™ ืฉืžืฆืืชื™ ื“ืจืš ืœืื”ื•ื‘ ืืช ื”ื“ื›ืื•ืŸ ืฉืœื™.
28:47
I love it because it has forced me to find and cling to joy.
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ืื ื™ ืื•ื”ื‘ ืื•ืชื• ืžืฉื•ื ืฉื”ื•ื ืื™ืœืฅ ืื•ืชื™
ืœืžืฆื•ื ืืช ื”ืฉืžื—ื” ื•ืœื”ื™ืื—ื– ื‘ื”.
28:52
I love it because each day I decide,
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ืื ื™ ืื•ื”ื‘ ืื•ืชื• ื›ื™ ื‘ื›ืœ ื™ื•ื ืื ื™ ืžื—ืœื™ื˜,
28:56
sometimes gamely,
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ืœืคืขืžื™ื ื›ืฉืขืฉื•ืข,
28:57
and sometimes against the moment's reason,
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ื•ืœืคืขืžื™ื ื‘ืžื ื•ื’ื“ ืœื”ื’ื™ื•ืŸ ืฉืœ ืื•ืชื• ืจื’ืข,
29:00
to cleave to the reasons for living.
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ืœื“ื‘ื•ืง ื‘ืกื™ื‘ื•ืช ืœื—ื™ื•ืช.
29:02
And that, I think, is a highly privileged rapture.
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ื•ื”ืงื™ืžื” ื”ื–ื• ืœืชื—ื™ื™ื” ื”ื™ื ื‘ืขื™ื ื™
ื–ื›ื•ืช-ื™ืชืจ ืขืฆื•ืžื”.
ืชื•ื“ื” ืœื›ื.
29:07
Thank you.
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29:08
(Applause)
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[ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื]
29:12
Thank you.
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29:13
(Applause)
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Original video on YouTube.com
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

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