Love, no matter what | Andrew Solomon

1,022,243 views ・ 2013-06-03

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00:00
Translator: Timothy Covell Reviewer: Morton Bast
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譯者: Ron Chao 審譯者: Yi-Ting Chung
00:12
"Even in purely nonreligious terms,
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「即使完全不就宗教的觀點而言
同性戀仍是性機能的誤用
00:17
homosexuality represents a misuse of the sexual faculty.
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00:22
It is a pathetic little second-rate substitute for reality --
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是一種可悲又渺小的二流現實替代品
00:27
a pitiable flight from life.
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是一場逃離人生的可憐之旅
因此,同性戀不值得同情
00:30
As such, it deserves no compassion,
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00:33
it deserves no treatment as minority martyrdom,
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不值得擁有
受苦的少數族群該有的待遇
同性戀應該被視為一種惡性疾病。」
00:39
and it deserves not to be deemed anything but a pernicious sickness."
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00:45
That's from "Time" magazine in 1966, when I was three years old.
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那是引自 1966 年的時代雜誌,我當時三歲
而去年,美國總統
00:51
And last year, the president of the United States
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00:54
came out in favor of gay marriage.
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公開表態支持同性婚姻
00:57
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
我的問題是,我們是怎麼走過來的?
01:05
And my question is:
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01:07
How did we get from there to here?
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01:10
How did an illness become an identity?
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疾病是如何變成一種身分的?
01:15
When I was perhaps six years old,
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我大概六歲的時候
01:18
I went to a shoe store with my mother and my brother.
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跟媽媽和弟弟去鞋店
01:21
And at the end of buying our shoes,
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買完鞋後
01:23
the salesman said to us that we could each have a balloon to take home.
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店員告訴我們可以各拿一個氣球回家
01:27
My brother wanted a red balloon,
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我弟弟想要紅色的,我想要粉紅色的
01:29
and I wanted a pink balloon.
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媽媽說我想要的其實是藍色的氣球
01:33
My mother said that she thought I'd really rather have a blue balloon.
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01:37
(Laughter)
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但是我堅決表示,我想要粉紅色的
01:38
But I said that I definitely wanted the pink one.
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媽媽提醒我,藍色才是我的最愛
01:41
And she reminded me that my favorite color was blue.
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01:46
The fact that my favorite color now is blue, but I'm still gay --
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現在我最愛的顏色確實是藍色,但我仍舊是同志
01:51
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
01:54
is evidence of both my mother's influence
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證明了媽媽影響力之大,但也有其極限
01:57
and its limits.
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01:58
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
02:00
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
02:07
When I was little, my mother used to say,
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小時候媽媽常常告訴我
02:10
"The love you have for your children is like no other feeling in the world.
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「父母對子女的愛是世上獨一無二的感情
等到你為人父母才能體會。 」
02:15
And until you have children, you don't know what it's like."
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媽媽會如此表達養育我和弟弟的心情
02:18
And when I was little, I took it as the greatest compliment in the world
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02:21
that she would say that about parenting my brother and me.
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小時候我認為那是至高無上的讚美
02:24
And when I was an adolescent, I thought, "But I'm gay,
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等到了青春期,我就開始想
我是同志,大概不能有家庭了
02:27
and so I probably can't have a family."
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02:30
And when she said it, it made me anxious.
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那時媽媽舊話重提,讓我感到不安
02:32
And after I came out of the closet,
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我出櫃以後
媽媽還繼續說,我就發飆了
02:34
when she continued to say it, it made me furious.
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02:37
I said, "I'm gay. That's not the direction that I'm headed in.
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我告訴她「我是同志,不打算走那條路
02:41
And I want you to stop saying that."
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請您以後別再提了。」
02:47
About 20 years ago,
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大約 20 年前,紐約時報雜誌的編輯向我邀稿
02:49
I was asked by my editors at the "New York Times Magazine"
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02:52
to write a piece about Deaf culture.
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讓我寫一篇聾人文化的文章
02:54
And I was rather taken aback.
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我大吃一驚
02:56
I had thought of deafness entirely as an illness:
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在那之前我一直認為耳聾完全是一種疾病
02:58
those poor people, they couldn't hear,
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那群可憐的人,他們聽不到
03:00
they lacked hearing, and what could we do for them?
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他們失去了聽力,我們幫得上忙嗎?
03:03
And then I went out into the Deaf world.
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然後我走進聾人的世界
03:05
I went to Deaf clubs.
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我去了聾人俱樂部
03:07
I saw performances of Deaf theater and of Deaf poetry.
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我去看聾人戲劇和聾人詩歌
我甚至去了田納西州的納許維爾 看聾人美國小姐大賽
03:12
I even went to the Miss Deaf America contest in Nashville, Tennessee,
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03:17
where people complained about that slurry Southern signing.
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那裡有人抱怨含糊的南方手語
(笑聲)
03:22
(Laughter)
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當我越來越深入聾人的世界
03:26
And as I plunged deeper and deeper into the Deaf world,
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我開始確信聾是一種文化
03:30
I became convinced that Deafness was a culture
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也相信聾人所說
03:33
and that the people in the Deaf world who said,
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03:35
"We don't lack hearing; we have membership in a culture,"
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「我們沒有聽覺的缺憾,我們是聾文化的成員。」
03:38
were saying something that was viable.
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這種說法是站得住腳的
03:41
It wasn't my culture,
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聾不是我的文化
03:42
and I didn't particularly want to rush off and join it,
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我也不是特別想要跑去參與
03:45
but I appreciated that it was a culture
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但是我體會得出聾是一種文化
03:48
and that for the people who were members of it,
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對於聾人而言
03:50
it felt as valuable as Latino culture or gay culture or Jewish culture.
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聾文化的價值不亞於 拉美裔文化、同志文化或猶太文化
03:56
It felt as valid, perhaps, even as American culture.
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我覺得聾文化也許甚至和美國文化一樣正當
04:01
Then a friend of a friend of mine had a daughter who was a dwarf.
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然後我朋友的朋友生了一個侏儒女兒
她女兒出生時
04:05
And when her daughter was born,
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04:06
she suddenly found herself confronting questions
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她突然面臨難題
我現在頗能體會她當時的心境
04:09
that now began to seem quite resonant to me.
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04:11
She was facing the question of what to do with this child.
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她面對的問題是怎麼教小孩
04:15
Should she say, "You're just like everyone else but a little bit shorter?"
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她應該說:「妳和大家沒兩樣,只不過稍矮一點」嗎?
還是她應該打造某種侏儒身分
04:19
Or should she try to construct some kind of dwarf identity,
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04:22
get involved in the Little People of America,
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參與美國矮人協會
04:24
become aware of what was happening for dwarfs?
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去認識侏儒面臨的問題
04:27
And I suddenly thought,
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我當時突然想到
大多數聾人的父母是聽得見的
04:29
"Most deaf children are born to hearing parents.
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04:31
Those hearing parents tend to try to cure them.
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有聽力的父母通常會想治好聾孩子
04:34
Those deaf people discover community somehow in adolescence.
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但是這些聾人在青少年時期總是能找到自己的社群
04:38
Most gay people are born to straight parents.
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大多數同志的父母不是同性戀
04:40
Those straight parents often want them to function
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那些不是同志的父母通常會要求同志
在父母認知的主流社會裡表現正常
04:43
in what they think of as the mainstream world,
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04:45
and those gay people have to discover identity later on.
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這些同志要等到以後才能發覺自己的身分
04:48
And here was this friend of mine,
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而我的那位朋友
04:50
looking at these questions of identity with her dwarf daughter.
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她在思考侏儒女兒的身分問題
我當時就想,又是同樣的問題
04:54
And I thought, "There it is again:
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04:55
a family that perceives itself to be normal
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一個自認為正常的家庭
04:58
with a child who seems to be extraordinary."
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卻有了看似與眾不同的孩子
05:00
And I hatched the idea that there are really two kinds of identity.
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於是我的想法誕生了:其實身分有兩種
05:05
There are vertical identities,
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一種是垂直身分
從父母到子女世代相傳
05:07
which are passed down generationally from parent to child.
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像是種族,經常包括國籍、語言,通常也有宗教
05:10
Those are things like ethnicity,
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05:12
frequently nationality, language, often religion.
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05:15
Those are things you have in common with your parents and with your children.
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這些都是你和你的父母及子女共同擁有的
05:20
And while some of them can be difficult,
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有些垂直身分或許難以認同
05:22
there's no attempt to cure them.
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但沒有人想要改正這些身分
05:24
You can argue that it's harder in the United States --
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你可以主張美國有一種身分較為困難
05:27
our current presidency notwithstanding --
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姑且不論現任總統也是這個身分
就是有色人種
05:30
to be a person of color.
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05:31
And yet, we have nobody who is trying to ensure
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然而沒人會想要確保
05:34
that the next generation of children born to African-Americans and Asians
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非裔和亞裔美國人的下一代
05:38
come out with creamy skin and yellow hair.
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生出來的時候會是金髮白膚
另一種身分必須從同輩中得知
05:42
There are these other identities which you have to learn from a peer group,
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我稱之為水平身分
05:46
and I call them "horizontal identities,"
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05:48
because the peer group is the horizontal experience.
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因為同輩之間的體驗是水平的
05:51
These are identities that are alien to your parents
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水平身分是你父母所沒有的
05:53
and that you have to discover when you get to see them in peers.
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必須在同輩之間察覺到這種身分才能認同
這些身分,這些水平身分
05:58
And those identities, those horizontal identities,
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人們幾乎總是想要治癒
06:01
people have almost always tried to cure.
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我要觀察的是一種歷程
06:05
And I wanted to look at what the process is
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06:07
through which people who have those identities
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有這些水平身分的人
06:09
come to a good relationship with them.
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如何處之泰然的歷程
06:12
And it seemed to me that there were three levels of acceptance
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在我看來,似乎需要
06:16
that needed to take place.
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三個層次的接受
自我接受、家庭接受、社會接受
06:18
There's self-acceptance, there's family acceptance, and there's social acceptance.
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06:23
And they don't always coincide.
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三種接受不一定同時發生
06:25
And a lot of the time, people who have these conditions are very angry,
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不被接受的人常常會很生氣
06:29
because they feel as though their parents don't love them,
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因為覺得父母好像不愛他們
其實父母只是不贊同他們
06:33
when what actually has happened is that their parents don't accept them.
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愛,理想上是沒有條件的
06:37
Love is something that, ideally, is there unconditionally
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06:40
throughout the relationship between a parent and a child.
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在親子關係裡恆久存在
06:43
But acceptance is something that takes time.
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但是接受需要時間
06:46
It always takes time.
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總是需要時間
我認識一位叫做克林頓 • 布朗的侏儒
06:49
One of the dwarfs I got to know was a guy named Clinton Brown.
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06:53
When he was born, he was diagnosed with diastrophic dwarfism,
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他出生時被診斷為畸形性侏儒症
一種極端殘障的病症
06:57
a very disabling condition,
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06:58
and his parents were told that he would never walk,
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他的父母被告知,他以後永遠不能走路,也不會說話
07:01
he would never talk,
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07:02
he would have no intellectual capacity,
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還會有智能障礙
07:04
and he would probably not even recognize them.
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甚至可能認不出父母
07:06
And it was suggested to them that they leave him at the hospital
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醫生建議他們把孩子留在醫院
07:10
so that he could die there quietly.
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讓他在那裡靜靜地死去
07:12
His mother said she wasn't going to do it,
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他的媽媽不願意這麼做
07:14
and she took her son home.
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她把兒子帶回家
07:16
And even though she didn't have a lot of educational or financial advantages,
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雖然媽媽教育程度不高也不富裕
卻找到了全國最好的醫生
07:20
she found the best doctor in the country for dealing with diastrophic dwarfism,
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主治畸形性侏儒症
07:24
and she got Clinton enrolled with him.
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媽媽讓克林頓去看那位醫生
07:26
And in the course of his childhood,
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克林頓的童年
07:28
he had 30 major surgical procedures.
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接受過 30 個重大的外科手術
07:31
And he spent all this time stuck in the hospital
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他為了動手術
07:33
while he was having those procedures,
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長時間待在醫院
07:35
as a result of which, he now can walk.
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結果他現在可以走路
07:37
While he was there, they sent tutors around to help him with his schoolwork,
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他在醫院的時候有老師輔導課業
他很用功,因為沒別的事情可做
07:42
and he worked very hard, because there was nothing else to do.
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他後來的成就
07:45
He ended up achieving at a level
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07:46
that had never before been contemplated by any member of his family.
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家人以前怎麼也想不到
07:50
He was the first one in his family, in fact, to go to college,
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事實上他是家裡面第一位上大學的
07:53
where he lived on campus and drove a specially fitted car
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他住校而且自己開車
07:56
that accommodated his unusual body.
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一輛為他特殊身體狀況而製的車子
07:59
And his mother told me the story of coming home one day --
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他媽媽有一天告訴我他兒子回家的故事
08:02
and he went to college nearby --
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他的學校離家很近
08:04
and she said, "I saw that car, which you can always recognize,
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她說:「我看到那輛車,一眼就認出來是他的
08:07
in the parking lot of a bar," she said.
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車子停在酒吧的停車場。」(笑聲)
08:10
(Laughter)
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她說:「我心裡想,他們 180 公分,他才 90 公分
08:12
"And I thought to myself,
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08:13
'They're six feet tall, he's three feet tall.
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08:16
Two beers for them is four beers for him.'"
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他們的兩杯啤酒是他的四杯。」
她說:「我知道不能進去阻止他
08:19
She said, "I knew I couldn't go in there and interrupt him,
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08:21
but I went home, and I left him eight messages on his cell phone."
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但我回家後留了八封手機簡訊給他。」
08:25
She said, "And then I thought,
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她說:「然後我心裡想
08:27
if someone had said to me, when he was born,
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如果他出生時有人告訴我
08:29
that my future worry would be that he'd go drinking and driving
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將來我擔心的會是他和大學同伴酒後駕車...。」
08:33
with his college buddies ..."
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08:34
(Laughter)
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(掌聲)
08:36
(Applause)
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08:43
And I said to her,
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然後我問她:「妳認為自己做了什麼
08:45
"What do you think you did that helped him to emerge
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能幫助他成為迷人、有成就、又令人驚嘆的人?
08:47
as this charming, accomplished, wonderful person?"
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08:50
And she said, "What did I do?
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她回答:「我做了什麼?我愛他,沒別的。」
08:53
I loved him, that's all.
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克林頓的心中總是有著光芒
08:55
Clinton just always had that light in him.
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而他父親和我,是有幸最先看到那道光芒的人。」
08:58
And his father and I were lucky enough to be the first to see it there."
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09:04
I'm going to quote from another magazine of the '60s.
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我要引述 1960 年代另一家雜誌
09:07
This one is from 1968 --
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這次是 1968 年的大西洋月刊 — 美國的自由主義之聲
09:10
"The Atlantic Monthly," voice of liberal America --
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09:13
written by an important bioethicist.
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作者是重要的生物倫理學家
09:15
He said, "There is no reason to feel guilty
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他表示:「對於放棄唐氏症兒童
09:19
about putting a Down's syndrome child away,
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我們沒有理由內疚
無論是私下送到療養院
09:23
whether it is 'put away' in the sense of hidden in a sanitarium
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或是更負責的、一了百了的方式
09:28
or in a more responsible, lethal sense.
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很可悲沒錯,也很可怕。但是不需要內疚
09:32
It is sad, yes. Dreadful.
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09:35
But it carries no guilt.
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真正的內疚,是冒犯他人
09:37
True guilt arises only from an offense against a person,
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而唐氏症患者不算是人。」
09:41
and a Down's is not a person."
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09:45
There's been a lot of ink given to the enormous progress that we've made
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關於同志處境的大幅進步
09:49
in the treatment of gay people.
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已經有很多文章有所著墨
09:51
The fact that our attitude has changed is in the headlines every day.
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每天的頭條都有報導我們對同志的態度已改變
09:55
But we forget how we used to see people who had other differences,
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但我們忘了過去是怎麼看待其他不同的人
10:00
how we used to see people who were disabled,
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忘了過去是怎麼看待殘障的人
10:02
how inhuman we held people to be.
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忘了過去我們是多麼不人道
10:05
And the change that's been accomplished there,
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在那些方面的改變
10:07
which is almost equally radical,
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幾乎同樣地激進
10:09
is one that we pay not very much attention to.
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我們卻不是很重視
我採訪過羅巴茲家庭的湯姆和凱倫夫婦
10:12
One of the families I interviewed, Tom and Karen Robards,
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他們當時是年輕且成功的紐約人
10:16
were taken aback when, as young and successful New Yorkers,
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10:19
their first child was diagnosed with Down syndrome.
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得知長子是唐氏兒時大為驚訝
10:23
They thought the educational opportunities for him were not what they should be,
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他們認為兒子的教育機會不符期望
10:27
and so they decided they would build a little center --
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於是決定要成立一個小型中心
10:31
two classrooms that they started with a few other parents --
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利用兩間教室,開始和其他父母
10:34
to educate kids with DS.
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一起教導唐氏兒
10:37
And over the years, that center grew into something called the Cooke Center,
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多年來,該中心已擴大為庫克中心
10:41
where there are now thousands upon thousands of children
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現在有成千上萬名
智障兒童在此受教
10:44
with intellectual disabilities
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10:45
who are being taught.
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10:47
In the time since that "Atlantic Monthly" story ran,
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自從大西洋月刊登出那篇文章以來
10:50
the life expectancy for people with Down syndrome has tripled.
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唐氏症患者的平均壽命已成長了三倍
有唐氏症的人包括演員
10:55
The experience of Down syndrome people includes those who are actors,
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10:59
those who are writers, some who are able to live fully independently in adulthood.
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作家以及成年後可以完全獨立生活的人
11:05
The Robards had a lot to do with that.
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羅巴茲夫婦的貢獻不小
11:07
And I said, "Do you regret it?
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我問他們:「你們有遺憾嗎?
11:08
Do you wish your child didn't have Down syndrome?
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你們希望自己的孩子不是唐氏兒嗎?
11:11
Do you wish you'd never heard of it?"
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你們希望從未聽過唐氏症這回事嗎?
有趣的是這位父親表示
11:13
And interestingly, his father said,
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11:15
"Well, for David, our son, I regret it,
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「這個嘛,為了兒子大衛著想,我有遺憾
因為對大衛來說,這個世界的患者之路很難走
11:18
because for David, it's a difficult way to be in the world,
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11:21
and I'd like to give David an easier life.
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我想讓大衛生活得更輕鬆
11:24
But I think if we lost everyone with Down syndrome,
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但我想,如果世上不再有唐氏兒,會是極大的損失。」
11:27
it would be a catastrophic loss."
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11:29
And Karen Robards said to me, "I'm with Tom.
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凱倫 • 羅巴茲對我說:「我同意湯姆的看法
11:32
For David, I would cure it in an instant, to give him an easier life.
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為了讓大衛過得更輕鬆,我會想立刻治癒唐氏症
11:36
But speaking for myself --
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但對我而言,23年前他出生時,我絕不會相信
11:38
well, I would never have believed 23 years ago when he was born
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我能走到今天這一步
11:42
that I could come to such a point.
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對我而言,他的病讓我成為更好、更仁慈的人
11:44
Speaking for myself, it's made me so much better and so much kinder
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11:48
and so much more purposeful in my whole life that, speaking for myself,
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讓我的人生更有目的
對我而言,這種經驗世上任何東西都換不來。」
11:53
I wouldn't give it up for anything in the world."
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現在社會對這些和其他病症的接受程度
11:58
We live at a point when social acceptance for these and many other conditions
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12:02
is on the up and up.
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越來越高
然而此時此刻
12:04
And yet we also live at the moment
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我們滅絕這些病症的能力
12:06
when our ability to eliminate those conditions
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12:08
has reached a height we never imagined before.
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也已經達到了超乎想像的高峰
12:11
Most deaf infants born in the United States now
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美國現在新生的聾兒
12:14
will receive cochlear implants,
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會接受人工電子耳
12:16
which are put into the brain and connected to a receiver,
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植入大腦並連上接收器
12:21
and which allow them to acquire a facsimile of hearing
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讓他們具有聽說的能力
12:24
and to use oral speech.
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12:26
A compound that has been tested in mice, BMN-111,
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有一種名為 BMN-111 的化合物,已做過小鼠試驗
12:30
is useful in preventing the action of the achondroplasia gene.
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能夠抑制「軟骨發育不全」基因
12:35
Achondroplasia is the most common form of dwarfism,
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軟骨發育不全是侏儒症最常見的形式
12:38
and mice who have been given that substance
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有「軟骨發育不全」基因的小鼠 攝取了 BMN-11 後
12:40
and who have the achondroplasia gene
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12:42
grow to full size.
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可以生長到正常體型
12:44
Testing in humans is around the corner.
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人體試驗指日可待
12:46
There are blood tests which are making progress
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唐氏症的驗血的技術也在進步
可以在懷孕時,更早且更明確地鑑別唐氏症
12:49
that would pick up Down syndrome more clearly and earlier in pregnancies
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12:53
than ever before,
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12:54
making it easier and easier for people to eliminate those pregnancies,
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從而越來越容易避免
12:59
or to terminate them.
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唐氏症胎兒的出生
13:00
So we have both social progress and medical progress.
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因此我們的社會進步了,醫學也進步了
13:05
And I believe in both of them.
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我認同這兩方面的進步
13:07
I believe the social progress is fantastic and meaningful and wonderful,
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我認為社會的進步太棒了、有意義、令人讚歎
13:11
and I think the same thing about the medical progress.
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我認為醫學的進步同樣是好事
13:14
But I think it's a tragedy when one of them doesn't see the other.
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但我認為二者不能配合卻是個悲劇
我觀察他們交會的方式
13:19
And when I see the way they're intersecting
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以我剛才描述的三個病症為例
13:21
in conditions like the three I've just described,
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13:23
I sometimes think it's like those moments in grand opera
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有時侯我會覺得這像大歌劇裡面
男主角發現自己愛上了女主角的時刻
13:27
when the hero realizes he loves the heroine
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13:29
at the exact moment that she lies expiring on a divan.
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就是女主角躺在長沙發上要斷氣的那一刻
(笑聲)
13:34
(Laughter)
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我們必須全盤考量對於治癒的態度
13:37
We have to think about how we feel about cures altogether.
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13:40
And a lot of the time the question of parenthood is:
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常常父母面對的問題是
13:43
What do we validate in our children,
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孩子的哪些方面該肯定
13:45
and what do we cure in them?
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哪些方面又需要治療?
13:47
Jim Sinclair, a prominent autism activist, said,
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知名的自閉症行動主義者吉姆 • 辛克萊表示
13:51
"When parents say, 'I wish my child did not have autism,'
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「父母說『我希望我的孩子沒有自閉症』
他們真正的意思是『我希望這個孩子不存在』
13:56
what they're really saying is, 'I wish the child I have did not exist
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14:00
and I had a different, nonautistic child instead.'
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換成另一個沒有自閉症的孩子
14:04
Read that again. This is what we hear when you mourn over our existence.
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聽清楚。你們哀嘆我們的存在之時 我們聽到的這就是這個意思
14:09
This is what we hear when you pray for a cure:
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你們祈禱解藥出現的時候,我們聽到的是 ─
你們衷心希望
14:13
that your fondest wish for us is that someday we will cease to be,
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有一天我們不復存在
14:17
and strangers you can love will move in behind our faces."
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和我們有著相同面孔的陌生人 將取代我們,得到你們所有的愛。」
這個觀點非常極端
14:23
It's a very extreme point of view,
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14:25
but it points to the reality that people engage with the life they have
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但指出了一個現實:人們要過自己的生活
不希望被治癒、改變或滅絕
14:30
and they don't want to be cured or changed or eliminated.
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14:34
They want to be whoever it is that they've come to be.
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他們希望保有與生俱來的天性
我為這個專案採訪了迪倫 • 柯萊柏德的家庭
14:38
One of the families I interviewed for this project
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14:41
was the family of Dylan Klebold,
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迪倫是科倫拜校園慘案的兇手之一
14:43
who was one of the perpetrators of the Columbine massacre.
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我花了很長時間說服他的家人跟我談話
14:47
It took a long time to persuade them to talk to me,
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14:49
and once they agreed, they were so full of their story
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一旦他們同意談話,因為有太多故事
14:52
that they couldn't stop telling it,
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一開口就欲罷不能
我第一次和他們共度週末 — 後來還有許多次
14:54
and the first weekend I spent with them, the first of many,
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14:56
I recorded more than 20 hours of conversation.
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我錄了 20 幾個小時的談話
14:59
And on Sunday night, we were all exhausted.
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到了週日晚上,我們都已疲憊不堪
15:01
We were sitting in the kitchen. Sue Klebold was fixing dinner.
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我們坐在廚房裡,蘇柯 • 萊柏德在做晚餐
我說:「如果迪倫還在
15:05
And I said, "If Dylan were here now,
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15:07
do you have a sense of what you'd want to ask him?"
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你們想要問他什麼嗎?」
15:10
And his father said, "I sure do.
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迪倫的父親說:「當然
15:12
I'd want to ask him what the hell he thought he was doing."
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我要問他搞什麼鬼,怎麼會做出那種事。」
15:16
And Sue looked at the floor, and she thought for a minute.
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蘇看著地板,沉思了一會兒
然後抬頭說
15:20
And then she looked back up and said,
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「我想請他原諒我沒做好母親的角色
15:22
"I would ask him to forgive me for being his mother
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從來不知道他腦子裡想的是什麼。」
15:26
and never knowing what was going on inside his head."
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15:30
When I had dinner with her a couple of years later --
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兩年之後我再度和她共度晚餐
15:33
one of many dinners that we had together --
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我們許多共同的晚餐之一
15:35
she said, "You know, when it first happened,
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她說:「你知道嗎,事情發生的時候
15:38
I used to wish that I had never married, that I had never had children.
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我希望自己沒結過婚,沒生過孩子
15:42
If I hadn't gone to Ohio State and crossed paths with Tom,
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我想如果沒去俄亥俄州立大學,沒遇見湯姆
就不會有這個孩子,慘案也不會發生了
15:46
this child wouldn't have existed,
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15:47
and this terrible thing wouldn't have happened.
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但是後來我覺得自己太愛孩子們了
15:50
But I've come to feel that I love the children I had so much
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15:54
that I don't want to imagine a life without them.
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不願意想像沒有他們的生活
15:57
I recognize the pain they caused to others,
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我明白他們對別人造成的痛苦,那是無法寬恕的
16:00
for which there can be no forgiveness,
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16:02
but the pain they caused to me, there is," she said.
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但我能寬恕他們帶給我的痛苦。」她說
「所以雖然我明白,如果迪倫從未出生
16:06
"So while I recognize that it would have been better for the world
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16:09
if Dylan had never been born,
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世界會更好
16:12
I've decided that it would not have been better for me."
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但是我認定那樣對我並非更好。」
我認為令人驚訝的是這些家庭 有這麼多子女的問題
16:18
I thought it was surprising
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16:19
how all of these families had all of these children
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16:22
with all of these problems,
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16:24
problems that they mostly would have done anything to avoid,
312
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這些問題又是他們常常不惜代價去避免的
16:27
and that they had all found so much meaning in that experience of parenting.
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但他們都發現養育兒女的經驗很有意義
然後我想,我們這些有孩子的人
16:31
And then I thought, all of us who have children
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16:34
love the children we have, with their flaws.
315
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愛我們有缺陷的孩子
如果光輝的天使突然從客廳的天花板降臨
16:37
If some glorious angel suddenly descended through my living-room ceiling
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16:41
and offered to take away the children I have
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提議帶走我的孩子
16:43
and give me other, better children --
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換一個更好的孩子 ─ 更有禮、風趣、友善、聰明
16:45
more polite, funnier, nicer, smarter --
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16:49
(Laughter)
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我會緊握住自己的孩子不放 祈禱殘忍的場面不會發生
16:50
I would cling to the children I have and pray away that atrocious spectacle.
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我終究覺得
16:55
And ultimately,
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16:56
I feel that in the same way that we test flame-retardant pajamas in an inferno
323
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就像我們在大火中測試防火睡衣
17:00
to ensure they won't catch fire when our child reaches across the stove,
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以確保孩子手伸到爐子上時不會著火
17:05
so these stories of families negotiating these extreme differences
325
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這些家庭超越極端差異的故事
17:09
reflect on the universal experience of parenting,
326
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反映了普世的育兒經驗
17:11
which is always that sometimes, you look at your child, and you think,
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有時候你看著孩子,心裡想
你是從哪裡蹦出來的?
17:16
"Where did you come from?"
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1936
17:18
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
17:20
It turns out that while each of these individual differences is siloed --
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事實證明,儘管個別的每一種差異都被掩藏起來
17:25
there are only so many families dealing with schizophrenia,
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畢竟面對精神分裂症的家庭只有這麼多
17:28
only so many families of children who are transgender,
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孩子變性的家庭只有這麼多
神童的家庭只有這麼多
17:31
only so many families of prodigies --
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17:32
who also face similar challenges in many ways --
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神童家庭也有多方面類似的挑戰
17:35
there are only so many families in each of those categories.
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這些家庭的數目,每一種都不是很多
但如果換個想法
17:38
But if you start to think
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17:39
that the experience of negotiating difference within your family
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你的家人超越差異的經驗
是大家都在解決的問題
17:43
is what people are addressing,
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2079
那你就會發現這幾乎是普世現象
17:45
then you discover that it's a nearly universal phenomenon.
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17:48
Ironically, it turns out,
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諷刺的是,事實證明我們的差異以及我們超越了差異
17:50
that it's our differences and our negotiation of difference
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17:53
that unite us.
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使我們團結起來
17:55
I decided to have children while I was working on this project.
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我是在做這個專案的時候才決定要有孩子
18:01
And many people were astonished and said,
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很多人驚訝地問我
18:04
"But how can you decide to have children
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1999
「你怎麼會現在決定要孩子
你不是正在研究所有可能出錯之處嗎?」
18:06
in the midst of studying everything that can go wrong?"
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2981
18:10
And I said, "I'm not studying everything that can go wrong.
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我說:「我不是在研究所有可能出錯之處
18:13
What I'm studying is how much love there can be,
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我研究的是儘管一切看似出了錯
18:16
even when everything appears to be going wrong."
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愛還能夠有多少。」
18:21
I thought a lot about the mother of one disabled child I had seen,
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我常常想到一位母親,我見過她殘障的兒子
那個嚴重殘障的孩子因為看護的疏失而死
18:27
a severely disabled child who died through caregiver neglect.
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3586
18:30
And when his ashes were interred, his mother said,
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3024
他的骨灰入土時,他的母親說
「我在這裡祈求寬恕,為了我的孩子兩次被奪走
18:34
"I pray here for forgiveness for having been twice robbed:
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6911
18:41
once of the child I wanted,
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2712
一次失去的是我想要的孩子,一次是我愛的兒子。」
18:44
and once of the son I loved."
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2604
18:47
And I figured it was possible, then, for anyone to love any child,
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4530
於是我想通了,任何人都有可能愛任何孩子
18:52
if they had the effective will to do so.
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只要他們有實際的意願
我丈夫是兩個孩子的生父
18:55
So, my husband is the biological father of two children
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4963
18:59
with some lesbian friends in Minneapolis.
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2105
他們的母親是在明尼阿波里斯市的女同志友人
我有個大學密友離了婚,想要孩子
19:03
I had a close friend from college who'd gone through a divorce
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3509
19:06
and wanted to have children.
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1664
19:08
And so she and I have a daughter,
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1713
於是她和我有了一個女兒
19:10
and mother and daughter live in Texas.
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母女住在德州
19:12
And my husband and I have a son who lives with us all the time,
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我丈夫和我有個一直住在一起的兒子
19:15
of whom I am the biological father,
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2360
我是他的生父
我們的代孕母是蘿拉
19:18
and our surrogate for the pregnancy was Laura,
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3724
19:21
the lesbian mother of Oliver and Lucy in Minneapolis.
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2777
她是在明尼阿波里斯市的女同志 奧利弗和露西的母親
19:24
(Laughter)
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(掌聲)
19:26
So --
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1159
19:27
(Applause)
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6702
簡言之,我們在三個州有五個父母和四個孩子
19:34
The shorthand is: five parents of four children in three states.
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4375
19:38
(Laughter)
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1094
19:39
And there are people who think that the existence of my family
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有人認為我家庭的存在
19:42
somehow undermines or weakens or damages their family.
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4489
多少減弱或破壞了他們的家庭
19:47
And there are people who think that families like mine
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還有人認為像我這樣的家庭
19:50
shouldn't be allowed to exist.
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不應該容許存在
19:52
And I don't accept subtractive models of love,
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3900
我不接受減法的愛,只接受加法的愛
19:56
only additive ones.
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1379
19:58
And I believe that in the same way that we need species diversity
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3503
而且我相信,就像我們需要物種多樣性
20:01
to ensure that the planet can go on,
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2425
以確保地球能延續下去
我們同樣需要多樣的親情和多樣的家庭
20:04
so we need this diversity of affection and diversity of family
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4277
20:08
in order to strengthen the ecosphere of kindness.
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3279
以加強「仁慈生態圈」
我們兒子出生的次日
20:13
The day after our son was born,
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2398
20:15
the pediatrician came into the hospital room
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2439
小兒科醫生走進病房表示擔心
20:17
and said she was concerned.
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1891
20:19
He wasn't extending his legs appropriately.
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3118
孩子伸腿不太正常
她說這可能顯示大腦受損
20:23
She said that might mean that he had brain damage.
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2537
20:25
Insofar as he was extending them, he was doing so asymmetrically,
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3731
他有伸過腿,但伸得不對稱
20:29
which she thought could mean that there was a tumor of some kind in action.
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3714
她認為這可能顯示孩子有腫瘤干擾
孩子的頭非常大,她認為這可能顯示腦水腫
20:33
And he had a very large head,
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1664
20:34
which she thought might indicate hydrocephalus.
391
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2935
20:37
And as she told me all of these things,
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1888
她告訴我這一切的時候
20:39
I felt the very center of my being pouring out onto the floor.
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3821
我覺得六神無主
20:43
And I thought, "Here I had been working for years
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2448
我當時想,這本書寫了好幾年了
20:45
on a book about how much meaning people had found
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2525
探討養育殘障孩子的經驗
20:48
in the experience of parenting children who were disabled,
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3633
父母從中發現了多少人生的意義
我當時卻不想成為他們的一員
20:52
and I didn't want to join their number
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3478
20:55
because what I was encountering was an idea of illness."
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2774
因為我面對的是一種疾病的觀念
20:58
And like all parents since the dawn of time,
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2742
就像自古以來所有的父母
我想讓我的孩子遠離疾病
21:01
I wanted to protect my child from illness.
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2977
我自己也不想得病
21:04
And I wanted, also, to protect myself from illness.
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3243
21:07
And yet, I knew from the work I had done
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2747
然而我從工作得知
如果測試結果他有我們擔心的情況
21:10
that if he had any of the things we were about to start testing for,
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3816
那些終歸是他的身分
21:14
that those would ultimately be his identity,
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2963
如果那些是他的身分,也將成為我的身分
21:17
and if they were his identity, they would become my identity,
405
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4039
21:21
that that illness was going to take a very different shape as it unfolded.
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4268
我也知道疾病將會發展出非常不同的狀態
21:25
We took him to the MRI machine, we took him to the CAT scanner,
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3129
我們帶他去做核磁共振,去做斷層掃描
21:28
we took this day-old child and gave him over for an arterial blood draw.
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3784
我們讓這個一天大的孩子接受動脈抽血
21:32
We felt helpless.
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1261
我們感到無助
21:33
And at the end of five hours,
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1657
五個小時之後
院方表示他的大腦完全沒問題
21:35
they said that his brain was completely clear
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2212
21:37
and that he was by then extending his legs correctly.
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2778
並且那個時候他已經能夠正常伸腿
21:40
And when I asked the pediatrician what had been going on,
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3000
我問小兒科醫生這到底是怎麼回事
21:43
she said she thought in the morning, he had probably had a cramp.
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4160
她說孩子早上可能是抽筋吧
21:47
(Laughter)
415
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3451
(笑聲)
21:51
But I thought --
416
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1262
但我想我母親真對
21:52
(Laughter)
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3925
21:56
I thought how my mother was right.
418
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2599
21:58
I thought, "The love you have for your children
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3472
我心裡想,對孩子的愛
22:02
is unlike any other feeling in the world.
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3362
是世上獨一無二的感情
22:05
And until you have children, you don't know what it feels like.
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4673
等到你為人父母才知道是什麼滋味
我想到作為父親的失落之時
22:12
I think children had ensnared me
422
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2136
22:14
the moment I connected fatherhood with loss.
423
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3002
孩子就成了我的陷阱
但要不是我一直在鑽研這個專案
22:18
But I'm not sure I would have noticed that
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2034
我不確定會有如此領悟
22:20
if I hadn't been so in the thick of this research project of mine.
425
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4344
22:25
I'd encountered so much strange love,
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1345462
3116
我接觸了這麼多奇怪的愛
22:28
and I fell very naturally into its bewitching patterns.
427
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3721
很自然地落入它迷人的模式
22:32
And I saw how splendor can illuminate even the most abject vulnerabilities.
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5873
我看到光彩是如何照亮了甚至最難堪的弱點
十年來我目睹和學到
22:39
During these 10 years, I had witnessed and learned
429
1359206
3782
難忍的責任帶來了令人震懾的喜悅
22:43
the terrifying joy of unbearable responsibility,
430
1363012
3552
22:46
and I had come to see how it conquers everything else.
431
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3088
我看到了這些喜悅征服了一切
雖然有時侯我認為受訪的父母是傻子
22:50
And while I had sometimes thought the parents I was interviewing were fools,
432
1370264
4049
22:54
enslaving themselves to a lifetime's journey with their thankless children
433
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4997
他們一輩子受忘恩的孩子束縛
還想要從不幸中孕育出身分認同
22:59
and trying to breed identity out of misery,
434
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3158
那天我明白了我的研究替我建立了踏板
23:02
I realized that day that my research had built me a plank
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4623
我已準備好上船和那些父母同舟共濟
23:07
and that I was ready to join them on their ship.
436
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2514
謝謝
23:10
Thank you.
437
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1208
23:11
(Applause and cheers)
438
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6979
(掌聲)
23:20
Thank you.
439
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1150
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