Karen Tse: How to stop torture

43,576 views ใƒป 2011-12-22

TED


ืื ื ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ืœืžื˜ื” ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ.

ืžืชืจื’ื: Ido Dekkers ืžื‘ืงืจ: Dan Liebeschutz
00:16
In 1994, I walked into a prison in Cambodia,
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ื‘ 1994, ืฆืขื“ืชื™ ืœืชื•ืš ื›ืœื ื‘ืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื”
00:20
and I met a 12-year-old boy
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ื•ืคื’ืฉืชื™ ื™ืœื“ ื‘ืŸ 12
00:23
who had been tortured
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ืฉืขื•ื ื”
00:25
and was denied access to counsel.
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ื•ื ืžื ืข ืžืžื ื• ื’ื™ืฉื” ืœืขื•ืจืš ื“ื™ืŸ
00:27
And as I looked into his eyes, I realized
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ื•ื›ืฉื”ื‘ื˜ืชื™ ืœืชื•ืš ืขื™ื ื™ื•, ื•ื”ื‘ื ืชื™
00:29
that for the hundreds of letters I had written
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ืฉืœืžืื•ืช ื”ืžื›ืชื‘ื™ื ืฉื›ืชื‘ืชื™
00:31
for political prisoners, that I would never have
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ืœืืกื™ืจื™ื ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ื™ื, ืฉืœืขื•ืœื ืœื ื”ื™ื™ืชื™
00:34
written a letter for him,
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ื›ื•ืชื‘ืช ืœื• ืžื›ืชื‘,
00:36
because he was not a 12-year-old boy who
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ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื”ื•ื ืœื ื”ื™ื” ื™ืœื“ ื‘ืŸ 12
00:38
had done something important for anybody.
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ืฉืขืฉื” ืžืฉื”ื• ื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืœืžื™ืฉื”ื•
00:40
He was not a political prisoner.
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ื”ื•ื ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืืกื™ืจ ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™
00:42
He was a 12-year-old boy who had
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ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ื™ืœื“ ื‘ืŸ 12
00:44
stolen a bicycle.
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ืฉื’ื ื‘ ืื•ืคื ื™ื™ื
00:46
What I also realized at that point was that
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ืžื” ืฉืขื•ื“ ื”ื‘ื ืชื™ ื‘ื ืงื•ื“ื” ื”ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ื”
00:48
it was not only Cambodia, but
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ืฉื–ื” ืœื ืจืง ื”ื™ื” ืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื”, ืืœื
00:50
of the 113
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ืžืชื•ืš 113
00:52
developing countries that torture,
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ื”ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช ื”ืžืชืคืชื—ื•ืช ืฉืžืขื ื•ืช
00:54
93 of these countries have all passed laws
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93 ืžื”ืŸ ื”ืขื‘ื™ืจื• ื—ื•ืงื™ื
00:57
that say you have a right to a lawyer
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ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื›ื ื–ื›ื•ืช ืœืขื•ืจืš ื“ื™ืŸ
00:59
and you have a right not to be tortured.
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ื•ื™ืฉ ืœื›ื ื–ื›ื•ืช ืœื ืœื”ื™ื•ืช ืžืขื•ื ื™ื
01:02
And what I recognized was that there was an
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ื•ืžื” ืฉื’ื™ืœื™ืชื™ ื–ื” ืฉื”ื™ื”
01:04
incredible window of opportunity for us
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ื—ืœื•ืŸ ื”ื–ื“ืžื ื•ื™ื•ืช ืขื ืง ื‘ืฉื‘ื™ืœื ื•
01:06
as a world community to come together
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ื›ืงื”ื™ืœื” ื‘ื™ืŸ ืœืื•ืžื™ืช ืœื”ืชืื—ื“
01:09
and end torture as an investigative tool.
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ื•ืœืฉื™ื ืงืฅ ืœืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื ื›ืฉื™ื˜ืช ื—ืงื™ืจื”
01:12
We often think of torture as being
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ืื ื—ื ื• ื—ื•ืฉื‘ื™ื ืจื‘ื•ืช ืขืœ ืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื
01:14
political torture or reserved for
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ื›ืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ื™ื ืื• ืฉืžื•ืจื™ื
01:16
just the worst, but, in fact,
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ืจืง ืœื’ืจื•ืข ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ, ืื‘ืœ, ืœืžืขืฉื”
01:19
95 percent of torture today
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ืชืฉืขื™ื ื•ื—ืžื™ืฉื” ืื—ื•ื–ื™ื ืžื”ืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื ื›ื™ื•ื
01:21
is not for political prisoners.
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ื”ื ืœื ืœืืกื™ืจื™ื ืคื•ืœื™ื˜ื™ื™ื
01:23
It is for people who are
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ื”ื ืœืื ืฉื™ื
01:25
in broken-down legal systems,
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ืฉื ืžืฆืื™ื ื‘ืžืขืจื›ื•ืช ืžืฉืคื˜ ืฉื‘ื•ืจื•ืช
01:27
and unfortunately because torture is
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ื•ืœืฆืขืจื ื• ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืฉืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื ื”ื
01:29
the cheapest form of investigation --
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ืฉื™ื˜ืช ื”ื—ืงื™ืจื” ื”ื–ื•ืœื” ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ
01:31
it's cheaper than having a legal system,
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ื–ื” ื–ื•ืœ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืžืขืจื›ืช ืžืฉืคื˜,
01:33
cheaper than having a lawyer
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ื–ื•ืœ ื™ื•ืชืจ ืžืขื•ืจืš ื“ื™ืŸ
01:35
and early access to counsel --
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ื•ื’ื™ืฉื” ืžื•ืงื“ืžืช ืœืขื–ืจื” ืžืฉืคื˜ื™ืช
01:37
it is what happens most of the time.
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ื–ื” ืžื” ืฉืงื•ืจื” ืจื•ื‘ ื”ื–ืžืŸ.
01:39
I believe today that it is possible for us
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ืื ื™ ืžืืžื™ื ื” ื”ื™ื•ื ืฉื–ื” ืืคืฉืจื™ ืœื ื•
01:41
as a world community, if we make a decision,
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ื›ืงื”ื™ืœื” ืขื•ืœืžื™ืช, ืื ื ื—ืœื™ื˜ ื›ืš
01:44
to come together and end torture
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ืœื”ืชืื—ื“ ื•ืœืฉื™ื ืงืฅ ืœืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื
01:46
as an investigative tool in our lifetime,
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ื›ืฉื™ื˜ืช ื—ืงื™ืจื” ื‘ื™ืžื™ ื—ื™ื™ื ื•
01:49
but it will require three things.
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ื™ื“ืจื•ืฉ ืฉืœื•ืฉื” ื“ื‘ืจื™ื
01:51
First is the training, empowerment,
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ืจืืฉื™ืช ื–ื” ื”ืื™ืžื•ืŸ, ื”ื—ื™ื–ื•ืง
01:54
and connection of defenders worldwide.
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ื•ืงื™ืฉื•ืจ ื‘ื™ืŸ ืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื ืžืกื‘ื™ื‘ ืœืขื•ืœื
01:57
The second is insuring that there is
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ื”ืฉื ื™ ืžื‘ื˜ื™ื— ืงื™ื•ื
02:00
systematic early access to counsel.
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ื’ื™ืฉื” ืžื•ืงื“ืžืช ืฉื™ื˜ืชื™ืช ืœื™ืขื•ืฅ ืžืฉืคื˜ื™
02:03
And the third is commitment.
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ื•ื”ืฉืœื™ืฉื™ ื”ื•ื ื”ืชื—ื™ื™ื‘ื•ืช
02:06
So in the year 2000,
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ืื– ื‘ืฉื ืช 2000
02:08
I began to wonder,
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ื”ืชื—ืœืชื™ ืœืชื”ื•ืช
02:11
what if we came together?
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?ืžื” ืื ื”ื™ื™ื ื• ืžืชืื—ื“ื™ื
02:14
Could we do something
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ื”ืื ื”ื™ื™ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืžืฉื”ื•
02:16
for these 93 countries?
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?ืœ93 ื”ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช ื”ืืœื•
02:18
And I founded International Bridges to Justice
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ื•ื”ืงืžืชื™ ืืช ื’ืฉืจื™ื ื‘ื™ืŸ ืœืื•ืžื™ื™ื ืœืฆื“ืง
02:20
which has a specific mission of
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ืฉื™ืฉ ืœื• ืžืฉื™ืžื” ืกืคืฆื™ืคื™ืช ืฉืœ
02:22
ending torture as an investigative tool
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ืœืฉื™ื ืงืฅ ืœืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื ื›ืฉื™ื˜ื” ืชื—ืงื•ืจื™ืช
02:25
and implementing due process rights
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ื•ื™ืฉื•ื ื”ื–ื›ื•ืช ืœืชื”ืœื™ืš ื ื›ื•ืŸ
02:27
in the 93 countries by placing trained lawyers
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ื‘ 93 ื”ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ื”ืฉืžืช ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ ืžื™ื•ืžื ื™ื
02:30
at an early stage in police stations
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ื‘ืฉืœื‘ ืžื•ืงื“ื ื‘ืชื—ื ื•ืช ืžืฉื˜ืจื”
02:32
and in courtrooms.
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ื•ื‘ื‘ืชื™ ืžืฉืคื˜
02:34
My first experiences, though, did come
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ื”ื ื™ืกื™ื•ืŸ ื”ืจืืฉื•ืŸ ืฉืœื™, ืขื ื–ืืช, ื”ื’ื™ืข
02:36
from Cambodia, and at the time I remember
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ืžืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื”, ื•ื‘ืื•ืชื• ื”ื–ืžืŸ ืื ื™ ื–ื•ื›ืจืช
02:39
first coming to Cambodia and there were,
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ืฉื”ื’ืขืชื™ ืœืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืœืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื” ื•ื”ื™ื•
02:41
in 1994, still less than
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ื‘ 1994, ืขื“ื™ืŸ ืคื—ื•ืช
02:43
10 attorneys in the country because
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ืžืขืฉืจื” ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ ื‘ืžื“ื™ื ื” ืžืคื ื™
02:45
the Khmer Rouge had killed them all.
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ืฉื”ื—ืžืจ ืจื•ื’' ื”ืจื’ื• ืืช ื›ื•ืœื
02:47
And even 20 years later, there was only
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ื•ืืคื™ืœื• 20 ืฉื ื” ืžืื•ื—ืจ ื™ื•ืชืจ, ื”ื™ื• ืจืง
02:49
10 lawyers in the country, so consequently
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ืขืฉืจื” ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ ื‘ืžื“ื™ื ื”, ื•ื›ืชื•ืฆืื” ืžื›ืš
02:51
you'd walk into a prison and
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื ื ื›ื ืกื™ื ืœื›ืœื
02:53
not only would you meet 12-year-old boys,
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ื•ืœื ืจืง ืคื•ื’ืฉื™ื ื™ืœื“ื™ื ื‘ื ื™ 12
02:55
you'd meet women and you'd say,
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื ืคื•ื’ืฉื™ื ื ืฉื™ื ื•ืื•ืžืจื™ื
02:57
"Why are you here?" Women would say,
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"ืœืžื” ืืชืŸ ืคื”?" ื•ื”ื ืฉื™ื ื”ื™ื• ืื•ืžืจื•ืช
02:59
"Well I've been here for 10 years because
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"ื•ื‘ื›ืŸ ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืคื” 10 ืฉื ื™ื ืžืคื ื™
03:01
my husband committed a crime, but they can't find him."
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ืฉื‘ืขืœื™ ื‘ื™ืฆืข ืคืฉืข, ืื‘ืœ ื”ื ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืžืฆื•ื ืื•ืชื•"
03:03
So it's just a place where there was no rule of law.
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ืื– ื–ื” ืคืฉื•ื˜ ืžืงื•ื ืฉืื™ืŸ ื‘ื• ื—ื•ืงื™ื
03:06
The first group of defenders came together
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ืงื‘ื•ืฆืช ื”ืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ื”ืชืงื‘ืฆื”
03:08
and I still remember, as I was training, I said,
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ื•ืื ื™ ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื–ื•ื›ืจืช, ื›ืฉื”ื“ืจื›ืชื™, ืืžืจืชื™
03:10
"Okay, what do you do for an investigation?"
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"?ืื•ืงื™ื™, ืžื” ืืชื ืขื•ืฉื™ื ื‘ื—ืงื™ืจื”"
03:12
And there was silence in the class, and finally
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ื•ื”ื™ื” ืฉืงื˜ ื‘ื›ื™ืชื”, ื•ืœื‘ืกื•ืฃ
03:14
one woman stood up, [inaudible name],
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[ืื™ืฉื” ืื—ืช ืขืžื“ื”,[ืฉื ืœื ืžื•ื‘ืŸ
03:16
and she said "Khrew," which means "teacher."
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"ื•ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื” "ืงืจื•," ืฉืžืฉืžืขื•ืชื• "ืžื•ืจื”
03:19
She said, "I have defended more than
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ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”, "ืื ื™ ื”ื’ื ืชื™ ืขืœ ืžืขืœ
03:22
a hundred people, and I've never had to do
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ืœืžืื” ืื ืฉื™ื, ื•ืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืฆืจื™ื›ื”
03:25
any investigation,
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ืœื—ืงื•ืจ
03:27
because they all come with confessions."
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"ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื›ื•ืœื ืžื’ื™ืขื™ื ืขื ื”ื•ื“ืื•ืช
03:29
And we talked about, as a class, the fact that
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ื•ื“ื™ื‘ืจื ื•, ื›ื›ื™ืชื”, ืขืœ ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื”
03:32
number one, the confessions
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ืฉืจืืฉื™ืช, ื”ื”ื•ื“ืื•ืช
03:34
might not be reliable, but number two,
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ืื•ืœื™ ืœื ืืžื™ื ื•ืช, ืื‘ืœ ืฉื ื™ืช
03:36
we did not want to encourage the police
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ืœื ืจืฆื™ื ื• ืœืขื•ื“ื“ ืืช ื”ืžืฉื˜ืจื”
03:38
to keep doing this, especially
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ืœื”ืžืฉื™ืš ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืืช ื–ื”, ื‘ืขื™ืงืจ
03:40
as it was now against the law.
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ืžืื—ืจ ื•ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืžื ื•ื’ื“ ืœื—ื•ืง
03:42
And it took a lot of courage for these
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ื•ื–ื” ื”ืฆืจื™ืš ื”ืจื‘ื” ืื•ืžืฅ
03:44
defenders to decide that they would
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ืœืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื ื”ืืœื” ืœื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ ืฉื”ื
03:46
begin to stand up and support each other
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ื™ืชื—ื™ืœื• ืœืขืžื•ื“ ื•ืœืชืžื•ืš ืื—ื“ ื‘ืฉื ื™
03:48
in implementing these laws.
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ื‘ื™ืฉื•ื ื”ื—ื•ืงื™ื ื”ืืœื•
03:51
And I still remember the first cases where
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ื•ืื ื™ ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื–ื•ื›ืจืช ืืช ื”ืžืงืจื™ื ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื™ื ื‘ื”ื
03:53
they came, all 25 together, she would
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ื”ื ื”ื’ื™ืขื•, ื›ืœ ื” 25 ื‘ื™ื—ื“, ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ืชื”
03:55
stand up, and they were in the back, and
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ืขื•ืžื“ืช, ื•ื”ื ื”ื™ื• ืžืื—ื•ืจ
03:57
they would support her, and the judges kept
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ื•ื”ื ื”ื™ื• ืชื•ืžื›ื™ื ื‘ื”, ื•ื”ืฉื•ืคื˜ื™ื ื”ืžืฉื™ื›ื•
03:59
saying, "No, no, no, no, we're going to do things
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ืœื”ื’ื™ื“, "ืœื, ืœื, ืœื, ืœื, ืื ื—ื ื• ืขื•ืžื“ื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื“ื‘ืจื™ื
04:01
the exact same way we've been doing them."
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"ื‘ืื•ืชื” ื“ืจืš ืฉืขืฉื™ื ื• ืื•ืชื
04:03
But one day the perfect case came, and it
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ืื‘ืœ ื™ื•ื ืื—ื“ ื”ืžืงืจื” ื”ืžื•ืฉืœื ื”ื’ื™ืข, ื•ื”ื•ื
04:05
was a woman who was a vegetable seller,
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ื”ื™ื” ืื™ืฉื” ืฉื”ื™ืชื” ืžื•ื›ืจืช ื™ืจืงื•ืช
04:07
she was sitting outside of a house.
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ื”ื™ื ื™ืฉื‘ื” ืžื—ื•ืฅ ืœื‘ื™ืช
04:09
She said she actually saw the person
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ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื” ืฉื”ื™ื ืœืžืขืฉื” ืจืืชื” ืืช ื”ืื“ื
04:12
run out who she thinks stole
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ืจืฅ ื”ื—ื•ืฆื” ืฉื”ื™ื ื—ืฉื‘ื” ืฉื’ื ื‘
04:14
whatever the jewelry was, but the police
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ืืช ื”ืชื›ืฉื™ื˜, ืื‘ืœ ื”ืžืฉื˜ืจื”
04:16
came, they got her, there was nothing on her.
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ื‘ืื”, ื”ื ืœืงื—ื• ืื•ืชื”, ืœื ื”ื™ื” ืฉื•ื ื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœื™ื”
04:18
She was pregnant at the time. She had
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ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ืชื” ื‘ื”ืจื™ื•ืŸ ื‘ืื•ืชื• ื”ื–ืžืŸ. ื”ื™ื• ืขืœื™ื”
04:20
cigarette burns on her. She'd miscarried.
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ื›ื•ื™ื•ืช ืžืกื™ื’ืจื™ื•ืช. ื”ื™ื ื”ืคื™ืœื”
04:22
And when they brought her case
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ื•ื›ืฉื”ื ื”ื‘ื™ืื• ืืช ื”ืžืงืจื” ืฉืœื”
04:24
to the judge, for the first time he stood up
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ืœืฉื•ืคื˜, ื‘ืคืขื ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ื”ื•ื ื ืขืžื“
04:26
and he said, "Yes, there's no evidence
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ื•ืืžืจ, "ื›ืŸ, ืื™ืŸ ืจืื™ื•ืช
04:28
except for your torture confession
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ื—ื•ืฅ ืžื”ื”ื•ื“ืื” ื‘ืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื ืฉืœืš
04:30
and you will be released."
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"ื•ืืช ืชืฉื•ื—ืจืจื™
04:32
And the defenders began to take cases
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ื•ื”ืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื ื”ืชื—ื™ืœื• ืœืงื—ืช ืžืงืจื™ื
04:34
over and over again and
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ืฉื•ื‘ ื•ืฉื•ื‘
04:36
you will see, they have step by step began
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ื•ืืชื ืชืจืื•, ื”ื ื”ื—ืœื• ืฆืขื“ ืื—ืจ ืฆืขื“
04:39
to change the course of history in Cambodia.
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ืœืฉื ื•ืช ืืช ืžื”ืœืš ื”ื”ืกื˜ื•ืจื™ื” ื‘ืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื”
04:42
But Cambodia is not alone.
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ืื‘ืœ ืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื” ืœื ืœื‘ื“
04:44
I used to think, well is it Cambodia?
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?ื ื”ื’ืชื™ ืœื—ืฉื•ื‘, ื•ื‘ื›ืŸ ื”ืื ื–ื” ืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื”
04:46
Or is it other countries?
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?ืื• ืฉืืœื” ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช ืื—ืจื•ืช
04:48
But it is in so many countries.
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ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ื‘ื›ืœ ื›ืš ื”ืจื‘ื” ืžื“ื™ื ื•ืช
04:51
In Burundi I walked into a prison and it wasn't
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ื‘ื‘ื•ืจื•ื ื“ื™ (ื”ืขืจืช ืžืชืจื’ื: ืžื“ื™ื ื” ื‘ืืคืจื™ืงื”) ื ื›ื ืกืชื™ ืœื›ืœื ื•ื–ื” ืœื ื”ื™ื”
04:53
a 12-year-old boy, it was an 8-year-old boy
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ื™ืœื“ ื‘ืŸ 12, ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื™ืœื“ ื‘ืŸ 8
04:56
for stealing a mobile phone.
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ืขืœ ื’ื ื™ื‘ืช ื˜ืœืคื•ืŸ ืกืœื•ืœืจื™
04:58
Or a woman, I picked up her baby,
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ืื• ืื™ืฉื”, ื”ืจืžืชื™ ืืช ื”ืชื™ื ื•ืงืช ืฉืœื”
05:00
really cute baby, I said "Your baby is so cute."
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"ืชื™ื ื•ืง ืžืžืฉ ื—ืžื•ื“, ืืžืจืชื™ "ื”ืชื™ื ื•ืงืช ืฉืœืš ื›ืœ ื›ืš ื—ืžื•ื“ื”
05:03
It wasn't a baby, she was three.
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ื–ื• ืœื ื”ื™ืชื” ืชื™ื ื•ืงืช, ื”ื™ื ื”ื™ืชื” ื‘ืช ืฉืœื•ืฉ
05:05
And she said "Yeah, but she's why I'm here,"
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"ื•ื”ื™ื ืืžืจื”, "ื›ืŸ, ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ืฉืื ื™ ืคื”
05:07
because she was accused of stealing
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ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื”ื™ื ื”ื•ืืฉืžื” ื‘ื’ื ื™ื‘ื”
05:09
two diapers and an iron for her baby and
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ืฉืœ ืฉื ื™ ื—ื™ืชื•ืœื™ื ื•ืžื’ื”ืฅ ืขื‘ื•ืจ ื”ืชื™ื ื•ืงืช ืฉืœื”
05:11
still had been in prison.
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ื•ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื”ื™ืชื” ื‘ื›ืœื
05:13
And when I walked up to the prison director,
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ื•ื›ืฉื”ืœื›ืชื™ ืœืžื ื”ืœ ื”ื›ืœื
05:15
I said, "You've got to let her out.
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ืืžืจืชื™, "ืืชื ื—ื™ื™ื‘ื™ื ืœืฉื—ืจืจ ืื•ืชื”
05:17
A judge would let her out."
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"ืฉื•ืคื˜ ื™ืฉื—ืจืจ ืื•ืชื”
05:19
And he said, "Okay, we can talk about it,
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ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ, "ืื•ืงื™ื™, ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืขืœ ื–ื”
05:21
but look at my prison. Eighty percent
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ืื‘ืœ ืชืจืื™ ืืช ื”ื›ืœื ืฉืœื™. ืฉืžื•ื ื™ื ืื—ื•ื–
05:23
of the two thousand people here
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ืžืืœืคื™ื™ื ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืคื”
05:25
are without a lawyer. What can we do?"
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"?ื”ื ื‘ืœื™ ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ. ืžื” ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช
05:27
So lawyers began to courageously
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ืื– ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ ื”ืชื—ื™ืœื• ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืืžื™ืฅ
05:29
stand up together to organize a system
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ืœื”ืชืื—ื“ ื•ืœืืจื’ืŸ ืžืขืจื›ืช
05:32
where they can take cases.
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ื‘ื” ื”ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืงื—ืช ืžืงืจื™ื
05:34
But we realized that it's not only the training
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื‘ื ื• ืฉื–ื• ืœื ืจืง ื”ื”ื›ืฉืจื”
05:36
of the lawyers, but the connection
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ืฉืœ ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื”ื“ื™ืŸ, ืืœื ื”ืงืฉืจื™ื
05:38
of the lawyers that makes a difference.
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ืฉืœ ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื”ื“ื™ืŸ ืฉืžืฉื ื”
05:40
For example, in Cambodia, it was that
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ืœื“ื•ื’ืžื”, ื‘ืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื”, ื–ื” ื”ื™ื”
05:42
[inaudible name] did not go alone
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ืฉื ืœื ืžื•ื‘ืŸ] ืœื ื”ืœื›ื” ืœื‘ื“]
05:44
but she had 24 lawyers with her
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ืืœื ื”ื™ื• ืื™ืชื” 24 ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ
05:46
who stood up together. And in the same way,
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ืฉืขืžื“ื• ื™ื—ื“. ื•ื‘ืื•ืชื” ื“ืจืš
05:48
in China, they always tell me,
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ื‘ืกื™ืŸ, ื”ื ืชืžื™ื“ ืื•ืžืจื™ื ืœื™
05:50
"It's like a fresh wind in the desert
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ื–ื” ื›ืžื• ืจื•ื— ืžืจืขื ื ืช ื‘ืžื“ื‘ืจ"
05:52
when we can come together."
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"ื›ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืชืื—ื“
05:54
Or in Zimbabwe, where I remember Innocent,
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ืื• ื‘ื–ื™ืžื‘ื‘ื•ืื”, ืฉื ืื ื™ ื–ื•ื›ืจืช ื—ืฃ ืžืคืฉืข
05:56
after coming out of a prison where everybody
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ืื—ืจื™ ืฉื™ืฆื ืžื›ืœื ื‘ื• ื›ื•ืœื
05:58
stood up and said, "I've been here
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ืขืžื“ ื•ืืžืจ, "ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืคื”
06:00
for one year, eight years, 12 years
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ืฉื ื”, ืฉืžื•ื ื” ืฉื ื™ื, 12 ืฉื ื™ื
06:02
without a lawyer,"
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"ื‘ืœื™ ืขื•ืจืš ื“ื™ืŸ
06:04
he came and we had a training together
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ื”ื•ื ื‘ื ื•ื”ื™ืชื” ืœื ื• ื”ื“ืจื›ื” ื™ื—ื“
06:06
and he said, "I have heard it said" --
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"ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ, "ืฉืžืขืชื™ ืฉื ืืžืจ
06:09
because he had heard people mumbling
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ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื”ื•ื ืฉืžืข ืื ืฉื™ื ืžืžืœืžืœื™ื
06:11
and grumbling -- "I have heard it said that
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ื•ืžืขื•ืฆื‘ื ื™ื -- "ืฉืžืขืชื™ ืฉื ืืžืจ
06:13
we cannot help to create justice
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ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขื–ื•ืจ ื‘ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืฆื“ืง
06:16
because we do not have the resources."
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"ืžืคื ื™ ืฉืื™ืŸ ืœื ื• ืืช ื”ืžืฉืื‘ื™ื
06:18
And then he said, "But I want you to know
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ื•ืื– ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ, "ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืฉืชื“ืขื•
06:20
that the lack of resources
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ืฉื—ื•ืกืจ ื”ืžืฉืื‘ื™ื
06:23
is never an excuse for injustice."
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"ื”ื•ื ืœืขื•ืœื ืœื ืชืจื•ืฅ ืœื—ื•ืกืจ ืฆื“ืง
06:25
And with that, he successfully
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ื•ืขื ื–ื”, ื”ื•ื ืื™ืจื’ืŸ
06:27
organized 68 lawyers who have been
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ื‘ื”ืฆืœื—ื” 68 ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ
06:30
systematically taking the cases.
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ืฉืœืงื—ื• ื‘ืฉื™ื˜ืชื™ื•ืช ืžืงืจื™ื
06:32
The key that we see, though, is training
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ื”ืžืคืชื— ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืื™ื ืขื ื–ืืช, ื”ื•ื ื”ื“ืจื›ื”
06:35
and then early access.
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ื•ืื– ื’ื™ืฉื” ืžื•ืงื“ืžืช
06:37
I was recently in Egypt, and was inspired
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ืœืื—ืจื•ื ื” ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ื‘ืžืฆืจื™ื, ื•ืงื™ื‘ืœืชื™ ื”ืฉืจืื”
06:39
to meet with another group of lawyers,
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ืžืคื’ื™ืฉื” ืขื ืงื‘ื•ืฆื” ื ื•ืกืคืช ืฉืœ ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ
06:41
and what they told me is that they said,
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ื•ืžื” ืฉื”ื ืืžืจื• ืœื™ ื”ื•ื ืฉื”ื ืืžืจื•
06:43
"Hey, look, we don't have police
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ื”ื™, ืชืจืื•, ืื™ืŸ ืœื ื• ืžืฉื˜ืจื”"
06:45
on the streets now. The police are
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ื‘ืจื—ื•ื‘ื•ืช ืขื›ืฉื™ื•. ื”ืžืฉื˜ืจื”
06:47
one of the main reasons why we had
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ื”ื™ืชื” ืื—ืช ื”ืกื™ื‘ื•ืช ื”ืขื™ืงืจื™ื•ืช ืžื“ื•ืข ื”ืชื—ืœื ื•
06:49
the revolution. They were torturing everybody
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ืืช ื”ืžื”ืคื›ื”. ื”ื ืขื™ื ื• ืืช ื›ื•ืœื
06:51
all the time."
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"ื›ืœ ื”ื–ืžืŸ
06:53
And I said, "But there's been tens of millions
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ื•ืืžืจืชื™, "ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื• ืžืื•ืช ืžืœื™ื•ื ื™ื
06:55
of dollars that have recently gone in
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ืฉืœ ื“ื•ืœืจื™ื ืฉืขื‘ืจื• ืœืื—ืจื•ื ื”
06:57
to the development of the legal system here.
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ืœืคื™ืชื•ื— ื”ืžืขืจื›ืช ื”ืžืฉืคื˜ื™ืช ืคื”
06:59
What's going on?"
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"?ืžื” ืงื•ืจื”
07:01
I met with one of the development agencies,
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ื ืคื’ืฉืชื™ ืขื ืื—ืช ืžืกื•ื›ื ื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืคื™ืชื•ื—
07:04
and they were training prosecutors
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ื•ื”ื ื”ื›ืฉื™ืจื• ืชื•ื‘ืขื™ื
07:06
and judges, which is the normal bias,
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ื•ืฉื•ืคื˜ื™ื, ืฉื–ื• ื”ื”ื˜ื™ื” ื”ื ื•ืจืžืœื™ืช
07:08
as opposed to defenders.
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ื‘ื ื™ื’ื•ื“ ืœื”ื›ืฉืจืช ืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื
07:10
And they showed me a manual which
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ื•ื”ื ื”ืจืื• ืœื™ ืžื“ืจื™ืš
07:12
actually was an excellent manual.
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ืฉืœืžืขืฉื” ื”ื™ื” ืžื“ืจื™ืš ืžืขื•ืœื”
07:14
I said, "I'm gonna copy this."
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"ื•ืืžืจืชื™, "ืื ื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื”ืขืชื™ืง ืืช ื–ื”
07:16
It had everything in it. Lawyers can come
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ื”ื™ื” ื‘ื• ื”ื›ืœ. ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื“ื™ืŸ ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื‘ื•ื
07:18
at the police station. It was perfect.
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ืœืชื—ื ืช ื”ืžืฉื˜ืจื”. ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ืžื•ืฉืœื
07:20
Prosecutors were perfectly trained.
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ืชื•ื‘ืขื™ื ื”ื•ื›ืฉืจื• ื‘ืฆื•ืจื” ืžื•ืฉืœืžืช
07:22
But I said to them, "I just have one question,
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ืื‘ืœ ืืžืจืชื™ ืœื”ื, "ื™ืฉ ืœื™ ืจืง ืฉืืœื” ืื—ืช
07:24
which is, by the time that everybody got to
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ืฉื”ื™ื, ืขื“ ืฉื›ื•ืœื ื”ื’ื™ืขื•
07:26
the prosecutor's office, what had happened to them?"
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"?ืœืžืฉืจื“ ื”ืชื•ื‘ืข, ืžื” ืงืจื” ืœื”ื
07:28
And after a pause, they said,
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ื•ืื—ืจื™ ืฉื”ื™ื”, ื”ื ืืžืจื•
07:30
"They had been tortured."
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"ื”ื ืขื•ื ื•"
07:32
So the pieces are,
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ืื– ื”ื—ืœืงื™ื ื”ื
07:34
not only the training of the lawyers, but
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ืœื ืจืง ื”ื”ื›ืฉืจื” ืฉืœ ืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื”ื“ื™ืŸ, ืืœื
07:36
us finding a way to systematically implement
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ืœืžืฆื•ื ื“ืจืš ืœื™ืฉื ื‘ืื•ืคืŸ ืขืงื‘ื™
07:39
early access to counsel, because they are
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ื’ื™ืฉื” ืžื•ืงื“ืžืช ืœื™ืขื•ืฅ ืžืฉืคื˜ื™, ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื”ื
07:42
the safeguard in the system
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ืฉื•ืžืจื™ ื”ืกืฃ ื‘ืžืขืจื›ืช
07:44
for people who are being tortured.
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ืœืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืžืขื•ื ื™ื
07:47
And as I tell you this, I'm also aware of the
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ื•ื›ืฉืื ื™ ืžืกืคืจืช ืœื›ื ืืช ื–ื”, ืื ื™ ื’ื ืžื•ื“ืขืช
07:49
fact that it sounds like, "Oh, okay, it sounds
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ืœืขื•ื‘ื“ื” ืฉื–ื” ื ืฉืžืข ื›ืžื•, "ืื•ื”, ืื•ืงื™ื™, ื–ื” ื ืฉืžืข
07:51
like we could do it, but can we really do it?"
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"?ื›ืื™ืœื• ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืืช ื–ื”, ืื‘ืœ ื”ืื ืื ื—ื ื• ื‘ืืžืช ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืืช ื–ื”
07:54
Because it sounds big.
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ืžืคื ื™ ืฉื–ื” ื ืฉืžืข ืขื ืง
07:56
And there are many reasons why I believe it's possible.
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ื•ื™ืฉ ื”ืจื‘ื” ืกื™ื‘ื•ืช ืžื“ื•ืข ืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ืช ืฉื–ื” ืืคืฉืจื™
07:59
The first reason is the people on the ground
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ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ื”ื™ื ื”ืื ืฉื™ื ื‘ืฉื˜ื—
08:02
who find ways of creating miracles
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ืฉืžื•ืฆืื™ื ื“ืจืš ืœื™ืฆื•ืจ ื ื™ืกื™ื
08:05
because of their commitment.
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ื‘ื’ืœืœ ื”ื”ืชื—ื™ื™ื‘ื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื
08:07
It's not only Innocent, who I told you about
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ื–ื” ืœื ืจืง ื”ื—ืคื™ื ืžืคืฉืข ืฉืกื™ืคืจืชื™ ืœื›ื ืขืœื™ื”ื
08:10
in Zimbabwe, but defenders all over the world
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ื‘ื–ื™ืžื‘ื‘ื•ืื”, ืืœื ืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื ื‘ื›ืœ ื”ืขื•ืœื
08:13
who are looking for these pieces.
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ืฉืžื—ืคืฉื™ื ืืช ื”ื—ืœืงื™ื ื”ืืœื”
08:16
We have a program called JusticeMakers,
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ื™ืฉ ืœื ื• ืชื•ื›ื ื™ืช ืฉื ืงืจืืช ื™ื•ืฆืจ ืฆื“ืง
08:19
and we realized there are people that are
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ื•ื”ื‘ื ื• ืฉื™ืฉ ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื”ื
08:21
courageous and want to do things, but
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ืืžื™ืฆื™ื ื•ืจื•ืฆื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื“ื‘ืจื™ื, ืื‘ืœ
08:23
how can we support them?
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?ืื™ืš ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืชืžื•ืš ื‘ื”ื
08:25
So it's an online contest where it's only
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ืื– ื–ื• ืชื—ืจื•ืช ืื•ื ืœื™ื™ืŸ ื‘ื” ื–ื” ืจืง
08:27
five thousand dollars if you come up with
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ื—ืžืฉืช ืืœืคื™ื ื“ื•ืœืจ ืื ืืชื ืžื’ื™ืขื™ื
08:29
and innovative way of implementing justice.
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ืœื“ืจืš ื—ื“ืฉื ื™ืช ืฉืœ ื™ืฉื•ื ืฆื“ืง
08:31
And there are 30 JusticeMakers
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ื•ื™ืฉ 30 ื™ื•ืฆืจื™ ืฆื“ืง
08:33
throughout the world, from Sri Lanka
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ื‘ืขื•ืœื, ืžืกืจื™ ืœื ืงื”
08:35
to Swaziland to the DRC, who with
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ืœืกื•ื•ืื–ื™ืœื ื“ ืœืกื™ืŸ, ืฉืขื
08:38
five thousand dollars do amazing things,
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ื—ืžืฉืช ืืœืคื™ื ื“ื•ืœืจ ืขื•ืฉื™ื ื“ื‘ืจื™ื ืžื“ื”ื™ืžื™ื
08:41
through SMS programs,
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SMS ื“ืจืš ืชื•ื›ื ื™ื•ืช
08:43
through paralegal programs,
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ื“ืจืš ืชื•ื›ื ื™ื•ืช ืงื“ื ืžืฉืคื˜ื™ื•ืช
08:45
through whatever they can do.
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ื“ืจืš ื›ืœ ื“ื‘ืจ ืฉื”ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืžืฆื•ื
08:47
And it's not only these JusticeMakers,
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ื•ื–ื” ืœื ืจืง ื™ื•ืฆืจื™ ื”ืฆื“ืง ื”ืืœื•
08:51
but people we courageously see
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ืืœื ืื ืฉื™ื ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืจื•ืื™ื ืขื ืื•ืžืฅ
08:53
figure out who their networks are
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ืœืžืฆื•ื ืžื™ ื”ืจืฉืชื•ืช ืฉืœื”ื
08:56
and how they can move it forward.
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ื•ืื™ืš ื”ื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืชืงื“ื ืงื“ื™ืžื”
08:58
So in China, for instance, great laws
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ืื– ื‘ืกื™ืŸ, ืœื“ื•ื’ืžื”, ื—ื•ืงื™ื ื’ื“ื•ืœื™ื
09:00
came out where it says police cannot
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ื™ืฆืื• ืฉืื•ืžืจื™ื ืฉื”ืžืฉื˜ืจื” ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœื”
09:03
torture people or they will be punished.
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ืœืขื ื•ืช ืื ืฉื™ื ืื—ืจืช ื”ื ื™ืขื ืฉื•
09:06
And I was sitting side by side with one of our
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ื•ื™ืฉื‘ืชื™ ื›ืชืฃ ืืœ ื›ืชืฃ ืขื ืื—ื“
09:09
very courageous lawyers, and said,
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ืžืขื•ืจื›ื™ ื”ื“ื™ืŸ ื”ืืžื™ืฆื™ื ืฉืœื ื• ื•ืืžืจืชื™
09:12
"How can we get this out? How can we
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"ืื™ืš ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืคื™ืฅ ืืช ื–ื”? ืื™ืš ืื ื—ื ื• ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื
09:14
make sure that this is implemented?
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?ืœื“ืื•ื’ ืฉื–ื” ื™ื™ื•ืฉื
09:16
This is fantastic." And he said to me,
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ื–ื” ื ืคืœื." ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ ืœื™
09:18
"Well, do you have money?" And I said,
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"ื•ื‘ื›ืŸ, ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื›ืกืฃ?" ื•ืืžืจืชื™
09:20
"No." And he said, "That's okay,
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ืœื." ื•ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ, "ื–ื” ื‘ืกื“ืจ"
09:22
we can still figure it out."
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"ืื ื—ื ื• ืขื“ื™ื™ืŸ ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœื”ืกืชื“ืจ
09:24
And on December 4, he organized
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ื•ื‘4 ื‘ื“ืฆืžื‘ืจ, ื”ื•ื ืืจื’ืŸ
09:26
three thousand members
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ืฉืœื•ืฉืช ืืœืคื™ื ื—ื‘ืจื™ื
09:28
of the Youth Communist League,
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ืฉืœ ืœื™ื’ืช ื”ืฆืขื™ืจื™ื ื”ืงื•ืžื•ื ื™ืกื˜ื™ื
09:30
from 14 of the top law schools,
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ืž14 ื‘ืชื™ ื”ืกืคืจ ื”ืžื•ื‘ื™ืœื™ื ืœืžืฉืคื˜
09:32
who organized themselves, developed
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ืฉืืจื’ื ื• ืืช ืขืฆืžื, ืคื™ืชื—ื•
09:34
posters with the new laws, and went
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ืคื•ืกื˜ืจื™ื ืขื ื”ื—ื•ืงื™ื ื”ื—ื“ืฉื™ื, ื•ื”ืœื›ื•
09:36
to the police stations and began what he says
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ืœืชื—ื ื•ืช ื”ืžืฉื˜ืจื” ื•ื”ืชื—ื™ืœื• ืืช ืžื” ืฉื”ื•ื ืื•ืžืจ
09:38
is a non-violent legal revolution
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ืฉื”ื™ื ืžื”ืคื›ื” ืžืฉืคื˜ื™ืช ืœื ืืœื™ืžื”
09:41
to protect citizen rights.
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ืœื”ื’ื ื” ืขืœ ื–ื›ื•ื™ื•ืช ื”ืื–ืจื—ื™ื
09:44
So I talked about the fact that we need
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ืื– ื“ื™ื‘ืจืชื™ ืขืœ ื”ืขื•ื‘ื“ื” ืฉืื ื—ื ื• ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื
09:46
to train and support defenders.
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ืœื”ื›ืฉื™ืจ ื•ืœืชืžื•ืš ื‘ืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื
09:48
We need to systematically implement
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ืื ื—ื• ืฆืจื™ื›ื™ื ืœื™ื™ืฉื ื‘ืฉื™ื˜ืชื™ื•ืช
09:50
early access to counsel.
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ื’ื™ืฉื” ืžื•ืงื“ืžืช ืœืกื™ื•ืข ืžืฉืคื˜ื™
09:52
But the third and most important thing is that
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ืื‘ืœ ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ืฉืœื™ืฉื™ ื•ื”ื—ืฉื•ื‘ ืžื›ืœ ื”ื•ื
09:54
we make a commitment to this.
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ืฉื ืชื—ื™ื™ื‘ ืœื–ื”
09:56
And people often say to me, "You know,
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ื•ืื ืฉื™ื ื ื•ื˜ื™ื ืœื•ืžืจ ืœื™, " ืืช ื™ื•ื“ืขืช
09:58
this is great, but it's wildly idealistic.
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ื–ื” ื ืคืœื, ืื‘ืœ ื–ื” ืื™ื“ื™ืืœื™ืกื˜ื™ ืžืื•ื“
10:00
Never going to happen."
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"ื–ื” ืœืขื•ืœื ืœื ื™ืงืจื”
10:02
And the reason that I think that
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ื•ื”ืกื™ื‘ื” ืฉืื ื™ ื—ื•ืฉื‘ืช
10:04
those words are interesting is because
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ืฉื”ืžื™ืœื™ื ื”ืืœื• ืžืขื ื™ื™ื ื•ืช ื”ื™ื ื‘ื’ืœืœ
10:06
those were the same kinds of words
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ืฉืืœื” ื”ื™ื• ืื•ืชืŸ ื”ืžื™ืœื™ื
10:08
that were used for people who decided
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ืฉื‘ื”ืŸ ื”ืฉืชืžืฉื• ืœืื ืฉื™ื ืฉื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ื•
10:10
they would end slavery, or end apartheid.
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ืฉื”ื ื™ืฉื™ืžื• ืงืฅ ืœืขื‘ื“ื•ืช, ืื• ื™ืฉื™ืžื• ืกื•ืฃ ืœืืคืจื˜ื”ื™ื™ื“
10:12
It began with a small group of people
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ื–ื” ื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ืขื ืงื‘ื•ืฆื” ืงื˜ื ื” ืฉืœ ืื ืฉื™ื
10:14
who decided they would commit.
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ืฉื”ื—ืœื™ื˜ื• ืฉื”ื ื™ืชื—ื™ื™ื‘ื•
10:16
Now, there's one of our favorite poems
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ืขื›ืฉื™ื•, ื™ืฉ ืืช ืื—ื“ ืžื”ืฉื™ืจื™ื ื”ืื”ื•ื‘ื™ื ืขืœื™ื ื•
10:18
from the defenders, which they share
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ืžื”ืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื, ืื•ืชื• ื”ื ื—ื•ืœืงื™ื
10:20
from each other, is:
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:ืื—ื“ ืขื ื”ืฉื ื™, ื•ื”ื•ื
10:22
"Take courage friends, the road is often long,
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ื—ื–ืง ื•ืืžืฅ ื—ื‘ืจ, ื”ื“ืจืš ืœืจื•ื‘ ืืจื•ื›ื”"
10:24
the path is never clear,
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ื”ืฉื‘ื™ืœ ืœืจื•ื‘ ืžื˜ื•ืฉื˜ืฉ
10:26
and the stakes are very high,
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ื•ื”ืกื™ื›ื•ื ื™ื ืœืจื•ื‘ ื’ื‘ื•ื”ื™ื ืžืื•ื“
10:28
but deep down, you are not alone."
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"ืื‘ืœ ืขืžื•ืง ื‘ืคื ื™ื, ืืชื” ืœื ืœื‘ื“
10:30
And I believe that if we can come together
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ื•ืื ื™ ืžืืžื™ื ื” ืฉืื ื ืชืื—ื“
10:33
as a world community to support not only
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ื›ืงื”ื™ืœื” ืขื•ืœืžื™ืช ืœืชืžื•ืš ืœื ืจืง
10:35
defenders, but also everyone in the system
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ื‘ืกื ื’ื•ืจื™ื, ืืœื ื‘ื›ืœ ืื—ื“ ื‘ืžืขืจื›ืช
10:38
who is looking towards it,
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ืฉืžื—ื›ื” ืœื–ื”
10:40
we can end torture as an investigative tool.
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ื ื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ืคืกื™ืง ืืช ื”ืขื™ื ื•ื™ื™ื ื›ืฉื™ื˜ืช ื—ืงื™ืจื”
10:43
I end always, because I'm sure the questions are --
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ืื ื™ ืžืกื™ื™ืžืช ืชืžื™ื“, ืžืคื ื™ ืฉืื ื™ ื‘ื˜ื•ื—ื” ืฉื”ืฉืืœื•ืช ื”ืŸ
10:45
and I'd be happy to talk to you
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ื•ืื ื™ ืืฉืžื— ืœื“ื‘ืจ ืื™ืชื›ื
10:47
at any point -- "But what can I really do?"
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"?ื‘ื›ืœ ื–ืžืŸ -- "ืื‘ืœ ืžื” ืื ื™ ื‘ืืžืช ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืขืฉื•ืช
10:49
Well, I would say this. First of all,
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ื•ื‘ื›ืŸ, ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืื•ืžืจืช. ืจืืฉื™ืช
10:51
you know what you can do. But second of all,
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ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื ืžื” ืืชื ื™ื›ื•ืœื™ื ืœืขืฉื•ืช. ืื‘ืœ ืฉื ื™ืช
10:53
I would leave you with the story of Vishna,
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ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืจื•ืฆื” ืœื”ืฉืื™ืจ ืืชื›ื ืขื ื”ืกื™ืคื•ืจ ืฉืœ ื•ื™ืฉื ื”
10:55
who actually was my inspiration
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ืฉืœืžืขืฉื” ื ืชืŸ ืœื™ ืืช ื”ื”ืฉืจืื”
10:58
for starting International Bridges to Justice.
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ืœื”ืชื—ื™ืœ ืืช ืืจื’ื•ืŸ ื’ืฉืจื™ื ื‘ื™ืŸ ืœืื•ืžื™ื™ื ืœืฆื“ืง
11:00
Vishna was a 4-year-old boy when I met him
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ื•ื™ืฉื ื” ื”ื™ื” ื™ืœื“ ื‘ืŸ 4 ื›ืฉืคื’ืฉืชื™ ืื•ืชื•
11:03
who was born in a Cambodian prison
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ืฉื ื•ืœื“ ื‘ื›ืœื ื‘ืงืžื‘ื•ื“ื™ื”
11:05
in Kandal Province. But because he was
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ื‘ืžื—ื•ื– ืงื ื“ืœ. ืื‘ืœ ื‘ื’ืœืœ ืฉื”ื•ื
11:08
born in the prison, everybody loved him,
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ื ื•ืœื“ ื‘ื›ืœื, ื›ื•ืœื ืื”ื‘ื• ืื•ืชื•
11:10
including the guards, so he was the only one
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ื›ื•ืœืœ ื”ืฉื•ืžืจื™ื, ืื– ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ื”ื™ื—ื™ื“
11:12
who was allowed to come
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ืฉื”ื™ื” ืžื•ืจืฉื”
11:14
in and out of the bars.
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ืœื”ื›ื ืก ื•ืœืฆืืช ืžื‘ื™ืŸ ื”ืกื•ืจื’ื™ื
11:16
So, you know, there's bars. And by the time
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ืื–, ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื, ื™ืฉ ืกื•ืจื’ื™ื, ื•ื‘ื–ืžืŸ
11:18
that Vishna was getting bigger,
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ืฉื•ื™ืฉื ื” ื’ื“ืœ
11:20
which means what gets bigger? Your head gets bigger.
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ืฉืื•ืžืจ ืฉืžื” ื’ื“ืœ? ื”ืจืืฉ ืฉืœื›ื ื’ื“ืœ
11:22
So he would come to the first bar,
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ืื– ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ืžื’ื™ืข ืœืกื•ืจื’ ื”ืจืืฉื•ืŸ
11:24
the second bar and then the third bar,
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ืœืฉื ื™ ื•ืื– ืœืฉืœื™ืฉื™
11:26
and then really slowly move his head
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ื•ืื– ืžืžืฉ ืœืื˜ ืžื–ื™ื– ืืช ืจืืฉื•
11:28
so he could fit through, and come back,
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ื›ืš ืฉื™ื•ื›ืœ ืœื”ืฉืชื—ืœ, ื•ืœื—ื–ื•ืจ
11:30
third, second, first. And he would
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ืฉืœื™ืฉื™, ืฉื ื™, ืจืืฉื•ืŸ. ื•ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื”
11:32
grab my pinkie, because what he wanted
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ืื•ื—ื– ืืช ื”ื–ืจืช ืฉืœื™,ืžืคื ื™ ืฉืžื” ืฉื”ื•ื ืจืฆื”
11:34
to do every day is he wanted to go visit.
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ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื›ืœ ื™ื•ื ื–ื” ืœื‘ืงืจ
11:36
You know, he never quite made it to
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ืืชื ื™ื•ื“ืขื™ื, ื”ื•ื ืžืขื•ืœื ืœื ืžืžืฉ ื”ื’ื™ืข
11:38
all of them every day, but he wanted to visit
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ืœื›ื•ืœื ื›ืœ ื™ื•ื, ืื‘ืœ ื”ื•ื ืจืฆื” ืœื‘ืงืจ
11:40
all 156 prisoners. And I would lift him,
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ืืช ื›ืœ 156 ื”ืืกื™ืจื™ื. ื•ื”ื™ื™ืชื™ ืžืจื™ืžื” ืื•ืชื•
11:42
and he would put his fingers through.
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ื•ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ืžืขื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื”ืืฆื‘ืขื•ืช ื“ืจืš
11:44
Or if they were dark cells, it was like iron
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ืื• ืื ืืœื” ื”ื™ื• ืชืื™ื ื—ืฉื•ื›ื™ื, ื–ื” ื”ื™ื” ื›ืžื• ื‘ืจื–ืœ
11:46
corrugated, and he would put his fingers through.
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ืžื—ื•ืจืจ, ื•ื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื” ืžืขื‘ื™ืจ ืืช ื”ืืฆื‘ืขื•ืช
11:48
And most of the prisoners said that he was
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ื•ืจื•ื‘ ื”ืืกื™ืจื™ื ืืžืจื• ืฉื”ื•ื ื”ื™ื”
11:50
their greatest joy and their sunshine, and they
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ื”ืื•ืฉืจ ื”ื’ื“ื•ืœ ื‘ื™ื•ืชืจ ืฉืœื”ื, ื•ื”ื
11:52
looked forward to him. And I was like,
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ืฆื™ืคื• ืœืคื’ื•ืฉ ืื•ืชื•. ื•ืื ื™ ื›ืื™ืœื•
11:54
here's Vishna. He's a 4-year-old boy.
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ื”ื ื” ื•ื™ืฉื ื”. ื”ื•ื ื™ืœื“ ื‘ืŸ 4
11:56
He was born in a prison with almost nothing,
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ื”ื•ื ื ื•ืœื“ ื‘ื›ืœื ืขื ื›ืœื•ื
11:58
no material goods, but he had a sense of
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ืœืœื ื—ืคืฆื™ื ื—ื•ืžืจื™ื™ื, ืื‘ืœ ื”ื™ื” ืœื• ืืช ื”ืชื—ื•ืฉื”
12:00
his own heroic journey, which I believe
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ืฉืœ ืžืกืข ื”ืจื•ืื™ ืขืฆืžื™, ืฉืื ื™ ืžืืžื™ื ื”
12:02
we are all born into. He said,
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ืฉื›ื•ืœื ื• ื ื•ืœื“ื™ื ืœืชื•ื›ื•. ื”ื•ื ืืžืจ
12:04
"Probably I can't do everything.
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ื›ื ืจืื” ืื ื™ ืœื ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ื”ื›ืœ"
12:06
But I'm one. I can do something.
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ืื‘ืœ ืื ื™ ืื—ื“. ืื ื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืขืฉื•ืช ืžืฉื”ื•
12:08
And I will do the one thing that I can do."
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"ื•ืื ื™ ืืขืฉื” ืืช ื”ื“ื‘ืจ ื”ื™ื—ื™ื“ ืฉืื ื™ ื™ื›ื•ืœ ืœืขืฉื•ืช
12:10
So I thank you for having the prophetic
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ืื– ืื ื™ ืžื•ื“ื” ืœื›ื ืฉื”ื™ื” ืœื›ื ืืช ื”ื“ืžื™ื•ืŸ
12:12
imagination to imagine the shaping
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ื”ื ื‘ื•ืื™ ืœื“ืžื™ื™ืŸ ืืช ื”ืชื”ื•ื•ืช
12:15
of a new world with us together,
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ื”ืขื•ืœื ื”ื—ื“ืฉ ืื™ืชื ื•
12:17
and invite you into this journey with us.
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ื•ืœื”ื–ืžื™ืŸ ืืชื›ื ืœืžืกืข ื”ื–ื” ืื™ืชื ื•
12:19
Thank you.
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ืชื•ื“ื” ืœื›ื
12:21
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื)
12:29
Thank you.
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ืชื•ื“ื” ืœื›ื
12:31
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื)
12:33
Thank you.
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ืชื•ื“ื” ืœื›ื
12:35
(Applause)
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(ืžื—ื™ืื•ืช ื›ืคื™ื™ื)

Original video on YouTube.com
ืขืœ ืืชืจ ื–ื”

ืืชืจ ื–ื” ื™ืฆื™ื’ ื‘ืคื ื™ื›ื ืกืจื˜ื•ื ื™ YouTube ื”ืžื•ืขื™ืœื™ื ืœืœื™ืžื•ื“ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช. ืชื•ื›ืœื• ืœืจืื•ืช ืฉื™ืขื•ืจื™ ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืขื‘ืจื™ื ืขืœ ื™ื“ื™ ืžื•ืจื™ื ืžื”ืฉื•ืจื” ื”ืจืืฉื•ื ื” ืžืจื—ื‘ื™ ื”ืขื•ืœื. ืœื—ืฅ ืคืขืžื™ื™ื ืขืœ ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื‘ืื ื’ืœื™ืช ื”ืžื•ืฆื’ื•ืช ื‘ื›ืœ ื“ืฃ ื•ื™ื“ืื• ื›ื“ื™ ืœื”ืคืขื™ืœ ืืช ื”ืกืจื˜ื•ืŸ ืžืฉื. ื”ื›ืชื•ื‘ื™ื•ืช ื’ื•ืœืœื•ืช ื‘ืกื ื›ืจื•ืŸ ืขื ื”ืคืขืœืช ื”ื•ื•ื™ื“ืื•. ืื ื™ืฉ ืœืš ื”ืขืจื•ืช ืื• ื‘ืงืฉื•ืช, ืื ื ืฆื•ืจ ืื™ืชื ื• ืงืฉืจ ื‘ืืžืฆืขื•ืช ื˜ื•ืคืก ื™ืฆื™ืจืช ืงืฉืจ ื–ื”.

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