Karen Tse: How to stop torture

In 1994, I walked into a prison in Cambodia,

and I met a 12-year-old boy

who had been tortured

and was denied access to counsel.

And as I looked into his eyes, I realized

that for the hundreds of letters I had written

for political prisoners, that I would never have

written a letter for him,

because he was not a 12-year-old boy who

had done something important for anybody.

He was not a political prisoner.

He was a 12-year-old boy who had

stolen a bicycle.

What I also realized at that point was that

it was not only Cambodia, but

of the 113

developing countries that torture,

93 of these countries have all passed laws

that say you have a right to a lawyer

and you have a right not to be tortured.

And what I recognized was that there was an

incredible window of opportunity for us

as a world community to come together

and end torture as an investigative tool.

We often think of torture as being

political torture or reserved for

just the worst, but, in fact,

95 percent of torture today

is not for political prisoners.

It is for people who are

in broken-down legal systems,

and unfortunately because torture is

the cheapest form of investigation --

it's cheaper than having a legal system,

cheaper than having a lawyer

and early access to counsel --

it is what happens most of the time.

I believe today that it is possible for us

as a world community, if we make a decision,

to come together and end torture

as an investigative tool in our lifetime,

but it will require three things.

First is the training, empowerment,

and connection of defenders worldwide.

The second is insuring that there is

systematic early access to counsel.

And the third is commitment.

So in the year 2000,

I began to wonder,

what if we came together?

Could we do something

for these 93 countries?

And I founded International Bridges to Justice

which has a specific mission of

ending torture as an investigative tool

and implementing due process rights

in the 93 countries by placing trained lawyers

at an early stage in police stations

and in courtrooms.

My first experiences, though, did come

from Cambodia, and at the time I remember

first coming to Cambodia and there were,

in 1994, still less than

10 attorneys in the country because

the Khmer Rouge had killed them all.

And even 20 years later, there was only

10 lawyers in the country, so consequently

you'd walk into a prison and

not only would you meet 12-year-old boys,

you'd meet women and you'd say,

"Why are you here?" Women would say,

"Well I've been here for 10 years because

my husband committed a crime, but they can't find him."

So it's just a place where there was no rule of law.

The first group of defenders came together

and I still remember, as I was training, I said,

"Okay, what do you do for an investigation?"

And there was silence in the class, and finally

one woman stood up, [inaudible name],

and she said "Khrew," which means "teacher."

She said, "I have defended more than

a hundred people, and I've never had to do

any investigation,

because they all come with confessions."

And we talked about, as a class, the fact that

number one, the confessions

might not be reliable, but number two,

we did not want to encourage the police

to keep doing this, especially

as it was now against the law.

And it took a lot of courage for these

defenders to decide that they would

begin to stand up and support each other

in implementing these laws.

And I still remember the first cases where

they came, all 25 together, she would

stand up, and they were in the back, and

they would support her, and the judges kept

saying, "No, no, no, no, we're going to do things

the exact same way we've been doing them."

But one day the perfect case came, and it

was a woman who was a vegetable seller,

she was sitting outside of a house.

She said she actually saw the person

run out who she thinks stole

whatever the jewelry was, but the police

came, they got her, there was nothing on her.

She was pregnant at the time. She had

cigarette burns on her. She'd miscarried.

And when they brought her case

to the judge, for the first time he stood up

and he said, "Yes, there's no evidence

except for your torture confession

and you will be released."

And the defenders began to take cases

over and over again and

you will see, they have step by step began

to change the course of history in Cambodia.

But Cambodia is not alone.

I used to think, well is it Cambodia?

Or is it other countries?

But it is in so many countries.

In Burundi I walked into a prison and it wasn't

a 12-year-old boy, it was an 8-year-old boy

for stealing a mobile phone.

Or a woman, I picked up her baby,

really cute baby, I said "Your baby is so cute."

It wasn't a baby, she was three.

And she said "Yeah, but she's why I'm here,"

because she was accused of stealing

two diapers and an iron for her baby and

still had been in prison.

And when I walked up to the prison director,

I said, "You've got to let her out.

A judge would let her out."

And he said, "Okay, we can talk about it,

but look at my prison. Eighty percent

of the two thousand people here

are without a lawyer. What can we do?"

So lawyers began to courageously

stand up together to organize a system

where they can take cases.

But we realized that it's not only the training

of the lawyers, but the connection

of the lawyers that makes a difference.

For example, in Cambodia, it was that

[inaudible name] did not go alone

but she had 24 lawyers with her

who stood up together. And in the same way,

in China, they always tell me,

"It's like a fresh wind in the desert

when we can come together."

Or in Zimbabwe, where I remember Innocent,

after coming out of a prison where everybody

stood up and said, "I've been here

for one year, eight years, 12 years

without a lawyer,"

he came and we had a training together

and he said, "I have heard it said" --

because he had heard people mumbling

and grumbling -- "I have heard it said that

we cannot help to create justice

because we do not have the resources."

And then he said, "But I want you to know

that the lack of resources

is never an excuse for injustice."

And with that, he successfully

organized 68 lawyers who have been

systematically taking the cases.

The key that we see, though, is training

and then early access.

I was recently in Egypt, and was inspired

to meet with another group of lawyers,

and what they told me is that they said,

"Hey, look, we don't have police

on the streets now. The police are

one of the main reasons why we had

the revolution. They were torturing everybody

all the time."

And I said, "But there's been tens of millions

of dollars that have recently gone in

to the development of the legal system here.

What's going on?"

I met with one of the development agencies,

and they were training prosecutors

and judges, which is the normal bias,

as opposed to defenders.

And they showed me a manual which

actually was an excellent manual.

I said, "I'm gonna copy this."

It had everything in it. Lawyers can come

at the police station. It was perfect.

Prosecutors were perfectly trained.

But I said to them, "I just have one question,

which is, by the time that everybody got to

the prosecutor's office, what had happened to them?"

And after a pause, they said,

"They had been tortured."

So the pieces are,

not only the training of the lawyers, but

us finding a way to systematically implement

early access to counsel, because they are

the safeguard in the system

for people who are being tortured.

And as I tell you this, I'm also aware of the

fact that it sounds like, "Oh, okay, it sounds

like we could do it, but can we really do it?"

Because it sounds big.

And there are many reasons why I believe it's possible.

The first reason is the people on the ground

who find ways of creating miracles

because of their commitment.

It's not only Innocent, who I told you about

in Zimbabwe, but defenders all over the world

who are looking for these pieces.

We have a program called JusticeMakers,

and we realized there are people that are

courageous and want to do things, but

how can we support them?

So it's an online contest where it's only

five thousand dollars if you come up with

and innovative way of implementing justice.

And there are 30 JusticeMakers

throughout the world, from Sri Lanka

to Swaziland to the DRC, who with

five thousand dollars do amazing things,

through SMS programs,

through paralegal programs,

through whatever they can do.

And it's not only these JusticeMakers,

but people we courageously see

figure out who their networks are

and how they can move it forward.

So in China, for instance, great laws

came out where it says police cannot

torture people or they will be punished.

And I was sitting side by side with one of our

very courageous lawyers, and said,

"How can we get this out? How can we

make sure that this is implemented?

This is fantastic." And he said to me,

"Well, do you have money?" And I said,

"No." And he said, "That's okay,

we can still figure it out."

And on December 4, he organized

three thousand members

of the Youth Communist League,

from 14 of the top law schools,

who organized themselves, developed

posters with the new laws, and went

to the police stations and began what he says

is a non-violent legal revolution

to protect citizen rights.

So I talked about the fact that we need

to train and support defenders.

We need to systematically implement

early access to counsel.

But the third and most important thing is that

we make a commitment to this.

And people often say to me, "You know,

this is great, but it's wildly idealistic.

Never going to happen."

And the reason that I think that

those words are interesting is because

those were the same kinds of words

that were used for people who decided

they would end slavery, or end apartheid.

It began with a small group of people

who decided they would commit.

Now, there's one of our favorite poems

from the defenders, which they share

from each other, is:

"Take courage friends, the road is often long,

the path is never clear,

and the stakes are very high,

but deep down, you are not alone."

And I believe that if we can come together

as a world community to support not only

defenders, but also everyone in the system

who is looking towards it,

we can end torture as an investigative tool.

I end always, because I'm sure the questions are --

and I'd be happy to talk to you

at any point -- "But what can I really do?"

Well, I would say this. First of all,

you know what you can do. But second of all,

I would leave you with the story of Vishna,

who actually was my inspiration

for starting International Bridges to Justice.

Vishna was a 4-year-old boy when I met him

who was born in a Cambodian prison

in Kandal Province. But because he was

born in the prison, everybody loved him,

including the guards, so he was the only one

who was allowed to come

in and out of the bars.

So, you know, there's bars. And by the time

that Vishna was getting bigger,

which means what gets bigger? Your head gets bigger.

So he would come to the first bar,

the second bar and then the third bar,

and then really slowly move his head

so he could fit through, and come back,

third, second, first. And he would

grab my pinkie, because what he wanted

to do every day is he wanted to go visit.

You know, he never quite made it to

all of them every day, but he wanted to visit

all 156 prisoners. And I would lift him,

and he would put his fingers through.

Or if they were dark cells, it was like iron

corrugated, and he would put his fingers through.

And most of the prisoners said that he was

their greatest joy and their sunshine, and they

looked forward to him. And I was like,

here's Vishna. He's a 4-year-old boy.

He was born in a prison with almost nothing,

no material goods, but he had a sense of

his own heroic journey, which I believe

we are all born into. He said,

"Probably I can't do everything.

But I'm one. I can do something.

And I will do the one thing that I can do."

So I thank you for having the prophetic

imagination to imagine the shaping

of a new world with us together,

and invite you into this journey with us.

Thank you.

(Applause)

Thank you.

(Applause)

Thank you.

(Applause)