This could be why you're depressed or anxious | Johann Hari | TED

Prevoditelj: Antoaneta Mjeda Recezent: Jasmina Sevo

For a really long time,

Dugo su vremena

I had two mysteries that were hanging over me.

dvije zagonetke visile nada mnom.

I didn't understand them

Nisam ih razumio

and, to be honest, I was quite afraid to look into them.

i, da budem iskren, prilično sam se bojao istražiti ih.

The first mystery was, I'm 40 years old,

Prva zagonetka je - 40 mi je godina

and all throughout my lifetime, year after year,

i tijekom cijelog mog života, godinu za godinom,

serious depression and anxiety have risen,

depresija i anksioznost ozbiljno rastu,

in the United States, in Britain,

u Sjedinjenim Državama, Britaniji,

and across the Western world.

kao i diljem zapadnog svijeta.

And I wanted to understand why.

Htio sam shvatiti zašto.

Why is this happening to us?

Zašto nam se to događa?

Why is it that with each year that passes,

Zašto je svakom godinom

more and more of us are finding it harder to get through the day?

sve više i više nas koji sve teže prolazimo kroz dan?

And I wanted to understand this because of a more personal mystery.

Htio sam to shvatiti zbog nešto osobnije zagonetke.

When I was a teenager,

Kad sam bio tinejdžer,

I remember going to my doctor

sjećam se odlaska liječniku

and explaining that I had this feeling, like pain was leaking out of me.

i objašnjavanja da imam osjećaj kao da bol curi iz mene.

I couldn't control it,

Nisam to mogao kontrolirati,

I didn't understand why it was happening,

nisam shvaćao zašto se to događa,

I felt quite ashamed of it.

prilično sam se sramio toga.

And my doctor told me a story

Liječnik mi je ispričao priču,

that I now realize was well-intentioned,

sad shvaćam da je bila dobronamjerna,

but quite oversimplified.

ali prilično pojednostavljena.

Not totally wrong.

Ne sasvim pogrešna.

My doctor said, "We know why people get like this.

Liječnik mi je rekao: "Znamo zašto ljudi postaju takvi.

Some people just naturally get a chemical imbalance in their heads --

Nekim se ljudima prirodno poremeti kemijska ravnoteža u glavi -

you're clearly one of them.

ti si očito jedan od njih.

All we need to do is give you some drugs,

Samo ti trebamo dati neke lijekove,

it will get your chemical balance back to normal."

to će tvoju kemijsku ravnotežu vratiti u normalu."

So I started taking a drug called Paxil or Seroxat,

Tako sam počeo piti lijek zvan Paxil ili Seroxat,

it's the same thing with different names in different countries.

ista stvar s različitim imenima u različitim zemljama.

Osjećao sam se puno bolje, dobio sam pravi polet.

And I felt much better, I got a real boost.

But not very long afterwards,

No, nedugo zatim,

this feeling of pain started to come back.

onaj osjećaj boli se počeo vraćati.

So I was given higher and higher doses

Tako su mi davali sve veće i veće doze

until, for 13 years, I was taking the maximum possible dose

sve dok 13 godina, nisam pio najveću moguću dozu

that you're legally allowed to take.

koja je zakonski dopuštena.

And for a lot of those 13 years, and pretty much all the time by the end,

Tijekom mnogih od tih 13 godina, a na kraju i cijelo vrijeme,

I was still in a lot of pain.

i dalje sam jako patio.

And I started asking myself, "What's going on here?

Počeo sam se pitati: "Što se ovdje događa?

Because you're doing everything

Zato što radiš sve

you're told to do by the story that's dominating the culture --

što ti se kaže po konceptu koji vlada kulturom -

why do you still feel like this?"

zašto se i dalje osjećaš ovako?"

So to get to the bottom of these two mysteries,

Kako bih riješio te dvije zagonetke,

for a book that I've written

za knjigu koju sam napisao

I ended up going on a big journey all over the world,

na kraju sam obišao cijeli svijet,

proputovao sam preko 64 000 km.

I traveled over 40,000 miles.

I wanted to sit with the leading experts in the world

Htio sam razgovarati s vodećim svjetskim stručnjacima

about what causes depression and anxiety

o tome što uzrokuje depresiju i anksioznost

and crucially, what solves them,

i, ključno, kako ih izliječiti

and people who have come through depression and anxiety

te o ljudima koji su prošli kroz depresiju i anksioznost

and out the other side in all sorts of ways.

i izašli na drugu stranu na raznorazne načine.

And I learned a huge amount

Jako sam puno naučio

from the amazing people I got to know along the way.

od divnih ljudi koje sam putem upoznao.

But I think at the heart of what I learned is,

Ipak, mislim da je srž onoga što sam dosad naučio

so far, we have scientific evidence

to da imamo znanstvene dokaze

for nine different causes of depression and anxiety.

za devet različitih uzroka depresije i anksioznosti.

Two of them are indeed in our biology.

Dva su od njih stvarno biološka.

Your genes can make you more sensitive to these problems,

Vaši vas geni mogu učiniti osjetljivijima na te probleme,

though they don't write your destiny.

iako oni ne ispisuju vašu sudbinu.

And there are real brain changes that can happen when you become depressed

Dolazi do stvarnih promjena u mozgu koje se događaju kad postanete depresivni

that can make it harder to get out.

koje mogu otežati izlječenje.

But most of the factors that have been proven

No većina čimbenika za koje je dokazano

to cause depression and anxiety

da uzrokuju depresiju i anksioznost

are not in our biology.

nisu biološki uvjetovana.

They are factors in the way we live.

To su čimbenici u načinu na koji živimo.

And once you understand them,

Jednom kad ih shvatite,

it opens up a very different set of solutions

otvara se sasvim drukčija skupina rješenja

that should be offered to people

koju bi trebalo ponuditi ljudima

alongside the option of chemical antidepressants.

uz opciju kemijskih antidepresiva.

For example,

Primjerice,

if you're lonely, you're more likely to become depressed.

ako ste usamljeni, vjerojatnije je da ćete postati depresivni.

If, when you go to work, you don't have any control over your job,

Ako, kad idete na posao, nemate nikakvu kontrolu nad njim,

you've just got to do what you're told,

samo morate raditi ono što vam se kaže,

you're more likely to become depressed.

vjerojatnije je da ćete postati depresivni.

If you very rarely get out into the natural world,

Ako vrlo rijetko izlazite u prirodu,

vjerojatnije je da ćete postati depresivni.

you're more likely to become depressed.

And one thing unites a lot of the causes of depression and anxiety

Jedna stvar ujedinjuje mnogo uzroka depresije i anksioznosti

that I learned about.

o kojima sam učio.

Not all of them, but a lot of them.

Ne sve, ali mnogo njih.

Everyone here knows

Svi ovdje znaju

you've all got natural physical needs, right?

da imamo prirodne fiziološke potrebe, zar ne?

Obviously.

Očito.

You need food, you need water,

Trebate hranu, trebate vodu,

you need shelter, you need clean air.

trebate sklonište, trebate čisti zrak.

If I took those things away from you,

Ako bih vam oduzeo te stvari,

you'd all be in real trouble, real fast.

bili biste u pravoj nevolji, jako brzo.

But at the same time,

No istovremeno,

every human being has natural psychological needs.

svako ljudsko biće ima prirodne psihološke potrebe.

You need to feel you belong.

Trebate osjetiti da pripadate.

You need to feel your life has meaning and purpose.

Trebate osjetiti da vaš život ima smisao i svrhu.

You need to feel that people see you and value you.

Trebate osjetiti da vas ljudi vide i cijene.

You need to feel you've got a future that makes sense.

Trebate osjetiti da imate budućnost koja ima smisla.

And this culture we built is good at lots of things.

Ova kultura koju smo izgradili je dobra u puno toga.

And many things are better than in the past --

Puno je stvari bolje nego u prošlosti -

I'm glad to be alive today.

drago mi je živjeti danas.

No sve smo manje dobri

But we've been getting less and less good

u zadovoljavanju tih dubokih, osnovnih, psiholoških potreba.

at meeting these deep, underlying psychological needs.

And it's not the only thing that's going on,

To nije jedino što se događa,

ali mislim da je to ključan razlog zašto je ova kriza u stalnom porastu.

but I think it's the key reason why this crisis keeps rising and rising.

And I found this really hard to absorb.

Bilo mi je stvarno teško to prihvatiti.

I really wrestled with the idea

Ozbiljno sam se hrvao s tom idejom

of shifting from thinking of my depression as just a problem in my brain,

prijelaza od razmišljanja o depresiji kao samo problemu u mom mozgu

to one with many causes,

do onoga s puno uzroka,

including many in the way we're living.

uključujući puno njih u životnom stilu.

And it only really began to fall into place for me

Sve mi se to tek počelo slagati

when one day, I went to interview a South African psychiatrist

kad sam jednog dana otišao intervjuirati južnoafričkog psihijatra

named Dr. Derek Summerfield.

dr. Dereka Summerfielda.

He's a great guy.

Odličan lik.

And Dr. Summerfield happened to be in Cambodia in 2001,

Dr. Summerfield je slučajno bio u Kambodži 2001. godine,

when they first introduced chemical antidepressants

kad su uveli kemijske antidepresive

for people in that country.

za ljude u toj zemlji.

And the local doctors, the Cambodians, had never heard of these drugs,

Lokalni kambodžanski liječnici nisu nikad čuli za te lijekove

so they were like, what are they?

pa ih je zanimalo što su oni.

And he explained.

Objasnio im je.

And they said to him,

Odgovorili su mu:

"We don't need them, we've already got antidepressants."

"Ne trebamo ih, već imamo antidepresive."

And he was like, "What do you mean?"

Pitao je: "Kako to mislite?"

He thought they were going to talk about some kind of herbal remedy,

Mislio je da će pričati o nekom biljnom lijeku,

like St. John's Wort, ginkgo biloba, something like that.

poput gospine trave, ginkgo bilobe i slično.

Instead, they told him a story.

Umjesto toga, ispričali su mu priču.

There was a farmer in their community who worked in the rice fields.

U njihovoj zajednici je bio seljak koji je radio u rižinim poljima.

And one day, he stood on a land mine

Jednog dana je stao na nagaznu minu

left over from the war with the United States,

preostalu iz rata sa Sjedinjenim Državama

and he got his leg blown off.

te je ostao bez noge.

So they him an artificial leg,

Dali su mu umjetnu nogu

and after a while, he went back to work in the rice fields.

pa se nakon nekog vremena vratio raditi na rižinim poljima.

Međutim, očito je jako bolno raditi pod vodom

But apparently, it's super painful to work under water

when you've got an artificial limb,

kad imate umjetan ud

and I'm guessing it was pretty traumatic

i vjerujem da je bilo prilično traumatično

to go back and work in the field where he got blown up.

vratiti se na posao u polje gdje je bio ozlijeđen.

The guy started to cry all day,

Čovjek je počeo plakati svaki dan,

he refused to get out of bed,

odbijao je ustati iz kreveta,

he developed all the symptoms of classic depression.

razvio je sve simptome klasične depresije.

The Cambodian doctor said,

Kambodžanski liječnik reče:

"This is when we gave him an antidepressant."

"Tada smo mu dali antidepresiv."

And Dr. Summerfield said, "What was it?"

Dr. Summerfield je upitao: "Što to?"

They explained that they went and sat with him.

Objasnili su da su sjeli s njim.

They listened to him.

Slušali su ga.

They realized that his pain made sense --

Shvatili su da je njegova bol imala smisla -

it was hard for him to see it in the throes of his depression,

njemu je to bilo teško vidjeti u ponoru depresije,

but actually, it had perfectly understandable causes in his life.

no ona je imala savršeno razumljive razloge u njegovom životu.

One of the doctors, talking to the people in the community, figured,

Jedan liječnik je, razgovarajući s ljudima u zajednici, pomislio:

"You know, if we bought this guy a cow,

"Znate, ako tom čovjeku kupimo kravu,

he could become a dairy farmer,

mogao bi postati mljekar

he wouldn't be in this position that was screwing him up so much,

i ne bi bio u ovom položaju koji mu toliko šteti,

ne bi trebao raditi u rižinim poljima."

he wouldn't have to go and work in the rice fields."

Tako su mu kupili kravu.

So they bought him a cow.

Za nekoliko tjedana prestao je plakati,

Within a couple of weeks, his crying stopped,

within a month, his depression was gone.

za mjesec dana depresija je nestala.

They said to doctor Summerfield,

Dr. Summerfieldu su rekli:

"So you see, doctor, that cow, that was an antidepressant,

"Vidite, doktore, ta krava je bila antidepresiv,

that's what you mean, right?"

na to mislite, zar ne?"

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

If you'd been raised to think about depression the way I was,

Ako ste odgojeni da o depresiji razmišljate poput mene

i većine ljudi ovdje,

and most of the people here were,

that sounds like a bad joke, right?

to zvuči kao loša šala, zar ne?

"Otišao sam kod liječnice po antidepresiv,

"I went to my doctor for an antidepressant,

dala mi je kravu."

she gave me a cow."

But what those Cambodian doctors knew intuitively,

No ono što su kambodžanski liječnici intuitivno znali,

based on this individual, unscientific anecdote,

polazeći od ove individualne i neznanstvene anegdote,

is what the leading medical body in the world,

je ono što nam vodeće svjetsko medicinsko tijelo,

the World Health Organization,

Svjetska zdravstvena organizacija,

has been trying to tell us for years,

pokušava reći već godinama,

based on the best scientific evidence.

polazeći od najboljih znanstvenih dokaza.

If you're depressed,

Ako ste depresivni,

if you're anxious,

ako ste anksiozni,

you're not weak, you're not crazy,

niste slabi i niste ludi,

you're not, in the main, a machine with broken parts.

niste stroj s pokvarenim dijelovima.

You're a human being with unmet needs.

Ljudsko ste biće s nezadovoljenim potrebama.

And it's just as important to think here about what those Cambodian doctors

Jednako je važno razmisliti o onome što kambodžanski liječnici

and the World Health Organization are not saying.

i Svjetska zdravstvena organizacija ne kažu.

They did not say to this farmer,

Nisu rekli seljaku:

"Hey, buddy, you need to pull yourself together.

"Slušaj, trebaš se pribrati.

It's your job to figure out and fix this problem on your own."

Tvoj je posao riješiti taj problem."

On the contrary, what they said is,

Upravo suprotno, ono što kažu jest:

"We're here as a group to pull together with you,

"Ovdje smo kao skupina da surađujemo s tobom,

so together, we can figure out and fix this problem."

tako da zajedno riješimo taj problem."

This is what every depressed person needs,

To svaka depresivna osoba treba,

and it's what every depressed person deserves.

to svaka depresivna osoba zaslužuje.

This is why one of the leading doctors at the United Nations,

Zato je jedan od vodećih liječnika u Ujedinjenim narodima,

in their official statement for World Health Day,

u službenoj izjavi za Svjetski dan zdravlja

couple of years back in 2017,

prije nekoliko godina, 2017, godine,

said we need to talk less about chemical imbalances

rekao da trebamo manje govoriti o kemijskim neravnotežama,

and more about the imbalances in the way we live.

a više o neravnotežama u načinu na koji živimo.

Drugs give real relief to some people --

Lijekovi pomažu nekim ljudima -

they gave relief to me for a while --

meni su pomagali neko vrijeme -

but precisely because this problem goes deeper than their biology,

ali baš zato što ovaj problem ide dublje od biologije,

the solutions need to go much deeper, too.

rješenja također trebaju ići puno dublje.

But when I first learned that,

Kad sam prvi put to čuo,

I remember thinking,

sjećam se da sam mislio:

"OK, I could see all the scientific evidence,

"OK, mogao sam vidjeti sve znanstvene dokaze,

pročitao sam puno studija,

I read a huge number of studies,

I interviewed a huge number of the experts who were explaining this,"

intervjuirao sam puno stručnjaka koji to objašnjavaju",

no i dalje sam mislio: "Kako to možemo napraviti?"

but I kept thinking, "How can we possibly do that?"

The things that are making us depressed

Stvari koje nas čine depresivnima

are in most cases more complex than what was going on

su u većini slučajeva puno složenije nego u onom

with this Cambodian farmer.

s kambodžanskim seljakom.

Where do we even begin with that insight?

Odakle da uopće krenemo s tim uvidom?

But then, in the long journey for my book,

No tada sam, tijekom dugog putovanja za svoju knjigu,

all over the world,

širom svijeta,

I kept meeting people who were doing exactly that,

nastavio upoznavati ljude koji su radili baš to,

from Sydney, to San Francisco,

od Sydneyja, preko San Francisca,

to São Paulo.

do São Paula.

I kept meeting people who were understanding

Stalno sam upoznavao ljude koji su razumjeli

the deeper causes of depression and anxiety

dublje razloge depresije i anksioznosti

and, as groups, fixing them.

i rješavali ih kao skupine.

Obviously, I can't tell you about all the amazing people

Očito vam ne mogu ispričati o svim divnim ljudima

I got to know and wrote about,

koje sam upoznao i o njima pisao

ili o svih devet razloga depresije i anksioznosti za koje sam saznao,

or all of the nine causes of depression and anxiety that I learned about,

because they won't let me give a 10-hour TED Talk --

jer mi ne žele dopustiti desetosatni TED Talk -

možete im se žaliti.

you can complain about that to them.

But I want to focus on two of the causes

No želim se usredotočiti na dva razloga

and two of the solutions that emerge from them, if that's alright.

i dva rješenja koja iz njih proizlaze, ako je to u redu.

Here's the first.

Evo prvog.

We are the loneliest society in human history.

Mi smo najusamljenije društvo u povijesti čovječanstva.

There was a recent study that asked Americans,

Nedavna je studija ispitivala Amerikance:

"Do you feel like you're no longer close to anyone?"

"Osjećate li da više niste bliski ni s kim?"

And 39 percent of people said that described them.

39 % ljudi je odgovorilo da ih to opisuje.

"Nisam više blizak ni s kim."

"No longer close to anyone."

In the international measurements of loneliness,

U međunarodnim mjerenjima usamljenosti,

Britain and the rest of Europe are just behind the US,

Britanija i ostatak Europe su odmah iza SAD-a,

in case anyone here is feeling smug.

ako se netko osjeća samodopadno.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

I spent a lot of time discussing this

Puno sam vremena raspravljao o tome

with the leading expert in the world on loneliness,

s vodećim svjetskim stručnjakom za usamljenost,

an incredible man named professor John Cacioppo,

nevjerojatnim čovjekom, prof. Johnom Cacioppom,

who was at Chicago,

koji je bio u Chicagu.

Puno sam razmišljao o pitanju koje nam postavlja njegov rad.

and I thought a lot about one question his work poses to us.

Professor Cacioppo asked,

Profesor Cacioppo je pitao:

"Why do we exist?

"Zašto postojimo?

Why are we here, why are we alive?"

Zašto smo ovdje, zašto smo živi?"

One key reason

Jedan ključni razlog

is that our ancestors on the savannas of Africa

je da su naši preci s afričkih savana

were really good at one thing.

bili stvarno dobri u jednoj stvari.

They weren't bigger than the animals they took down a lot of the time,

Dosta vremena nisu bili veći od životinja koje su obarali,

they weren't faster than the animals they took down a lot of the time,

dosta vremena nisu bili brži od životinja koje su obarali,

but they were much better at banding together into groups

ali bili su puno bolji u udruživanju u skupine

and cooperating.

i surađivanju.

This was our superpower as a species --

To je bila naša supermoć kao vrste -

we band together,

udružujemo se,

just like bees evolved to live in a hive,

baš kao pčele, evoluirale da žive u košnici,

humans evolved to live in a tribe.

ljudi su evoluirali da žive u plemenu.

And we are the first humans ever

Mi smo prvi ljudi

to disband our tribes.

koji su se razdružili

And it is making us feel awful.

i zbog toga se osjećamo grozno.

But it doesn't have to be this way.

No ne mora biti tako.

One of the heroes in my book, and in fact, in my life,

Jedan od junaka moje knjige i, zapravo, mog života,

is a doctor named Sam Everington.

je liječnik Sam Everington.

He's a general practitioner in a poor part of East London,

Liječnik je opće prakse u siromašnom dijelu istočnog Londona,

where I lived for many years.

gdje sam živio mnogo godina.

And Sam was really uncomfortable,

Sam se osjećao jako nelagodno

because he had loads of patients

jer je imao jako puno pacijenata

coming to him with terrible depression and anxiety.

koji su dolazili s užasnom depresijom i anksioznošću.

And like me, he's not opposed to chemical antidepressants,

Poput mene, ni on se ne protivi kemijskim antidepresivima,

he thinks they give some relief to some people.

misli da oni mogu pomoći nekim ljudima.

No uvidio je dvije stvari.

But he could see two things.

Firstly, his patients were depressed and anxious a lot of the time

Prvo, njegovi pacijenti su većinu vremena bili depresivni i anksiozni

for totally understandable reasons, like loneliness.

iz sasvim razumljivih razloga, poput usamljenosti.

And secondly, although the drugs were giving some relief to some people,

Drugo, iako su lijekovi pružali neko olakšanje nekim ljudima,

mnogim ljudima nisu riješili problem.

for many people, they didn't solve the problem.

The underlying problem.

Osnovni problem.

One day, Sam decided to pioneer a different approach.

Jednog dana, Sam je odlučio uvesti drukčiji pristup.

A woman came to his center, his medical center,

Jedna je žena došla u njegov medicinski centar,

called Lisa Cunningham.

Lisa Cunningham.

I got to know Lisa later.

Upoznao sam je kasnije.

And Lisa had been shut away in her home with crippling depression and anxiety

Lisa je bila zatvorena u svom domu s užasnom depresijom i anksioznošću

for seven years.

sedam godina.

And when she came to Sam's center, she was told, "Don't worry,

Kad je došla u Samov centar, rekli su joj: "Ne brinite se,

we'll carry on giving you these drugs,

nastavit ćemo vam davati lijekove,

but we're also going to prescribe something else.

ali ćemo vam također prepisati nešto drugo.

We're going to prescribe for you to come here to this center twice a week

Prepisat ćemo vam dolazak u ovaj centar dvaput tjedno

to meet with a group of other depressed and anxious people,

i sastanak s grupom drugih depresivnih i anksioznih ljudi,

not to talk about how miserable you are,

ne da pričate o tome kako vam je loše,

but to figure out something meaningful you can all do together

nego da otkrijete nešto smisleno što možete raditi zajedno

so you won't be lonely and you won't feel like life is pointless."

da ne budete usamljeni i da ne osjećate da je život besmislen."

The first time this group met,

Prvi put kad se grupa sastala,

Lisa literally started vomiting with anxiety,

Lisa je doslovno počela povraćati od tjeskobe,

it was so overwhelming for her.

toliko ju je obuzela.

But people rubbed her back, the group started talking,

No ljudi su je potapšali po leđima i počeli su pričati.

Pitali su: "Što mi možemo učiniti?"

they were like, "What could we do?"

These are inner-city, East London people like me,

Gradski ljudi iz istočnog Londona kao ja,

nisu znali ništa o vrtlarenju.

they didn't know anything about gardening.

Tako su pitali: "Zašto ne naučimo vrtlariti?"

They were like, "Why don't we learn gardening?"

Iza liječničkih ureda se nalazilo

There was an area behind the doctors' offices

samo šipražje.

"Zašto ne napravimo vrt od toga?"

that was just scrubland.

"Why don't we make this into a garden?"

Počeli su posuđivati knjige iz knjižnice

They started to take books out of the library,

i gledati isječke s You Tubea.

started to watch YouTube clips.

Počeli su zabadati prste u tlo.

They started to get their fingers in the soil.

They started to learn the rhythms of the seasons.

Počeli su učiti ritam godišnjih doba.

There's a lot of evidence

Postoji puno dokaza

that exposure to the natural world

da je izloženost prirodi

is a really powerful antidepressant.

stvarno moćan antidepresiv.

But they started to do something even more important.

No započeli su nešto još važnije.

They started to form a tribe.

Počeli su biti pleme.

They started to form a group.

Počeli su biti skupina.

They started to care about each other.

Počeli su mariti jedni za druge.

If one of them didn't show up,

Ako se netko od njih ne bi pojavio,

the others would go looking for them -- "Are you OK?"

drugi bi ga išli tražiti: "Jesi li dobro?"

Help them figure out what was troubling them that day.

Pomagali bi mu da shvati što ga muči taj dan.

Lisa mi je to ovako opisala:

The way Lisa put it to me,

"As the garden began to bloom,

"Kako je vrt počeo cvjetati,

we began to bloom."

tako smo i mi cvjetali."

This approach is called social prescribing,

Taj pristup se zove "prepisivanje društva"

it's spreading all over Europe.

i širi se diljem Europe.

And there's a small, but growing body of evidence

Postoji mali, ali rastući broj dokaza

suggesting it can produce real and meaningful falls

koji sugeriraju da ono može dovesti do značajnog pada

in depression and anxiety.

depresije i anksioznosti.

And one day, I remember standing in the garden

Jednog dana, sjećam se da sam stajao u vrtu,

kojeg su Lisa i njeni nekoć depresivni prijatelji uredili

that Lisa and her once-depressed friends had built --

it's a really beautiful garden --

- stvarno je predivan vrt -

and having this thought,

i razmišljao,

it's very much inspired by a guy called professor Hugh Mackay in Australia.

prilično nadahnut profesorom Hughom Mackayjem u Australiji.

I was thinking, so often when people feel down in this culture,

Razmišljao sam, jako često kad se ljudi osjećaju loše u ovoj kulturi,

what we say to them -- I'm sure everyone here said it, I have --

kažemo im - prilično sam siguran da su svi to rekli, ja jesam -

we say, "You just need to be you, be yourself."

"Samo trebaš biti ti, biti sav svoj."

And I've realized, actually, what we should say to people is,

Shvatio sam da, zapravo, ljudima trebamo reći:

"Don't be you.

"Nemoj biti ti.

Don't be yourself.

Nemoj biti sav svoj.

Be us, be we.

Budi naš, budi mi.

Be part of a group."

Budi dio grupe."

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

The solution to these problems

Rješenje tih problema

does not lie in drawing more and more on your resources

ne leži u povlačenju sve više i više vlastitih resursa

as an isolated individual --

kao osamljenog pojedinca -

that's partly what got us in this crisis.

dijelom nas je i to dovelo do ove krize.

It lies on reconnecting with something bigger than you.

Rješenje leži u povezivanju s nečim većim od vas.

And that really connects to one of the other causes

To se veže s jednim drugim uzrokom

of depression and anxiety that I wanted to talk to you about.

depresije i anksioznosti o kojemu sam htio govoriti.

So everyone knows

Svi znamo da je

junk food has taken over our diets and made us physically sick.

brza hrana postala naša glavna prehrana i učinila nas fizički bolesnima.

I don't say that with any sense of superiority,

Ne govorim to ni s kakvim osjećajem nadmoći.

Doslovno sam došao ovdje iz McDonald'sa.

I literally came to give this talk from McDonald's.

I saw all of you eating that healthy TED breakfast, I was like no way.

Vidio sam da svi jedete zdravi TED doručak i rekao sam si da nema šanse.

But just like junk food has taken over our diets and made us physically sick,

No kako je brza hrana postala naša ishrana i učinila nas fizički bolesnima,

a kind of junk values have taken over our minds

tako su neke nezdrave vrijednosti preuzele naše umove

and made us mentally sick.

i učinile nas psihički bolesnima.

For thousands of years, philosophers have said,

Tisućama godina filozofi govore da

if you think life is about money, and status and showing off,

ako mislite da se život svodi na novac, status i pravljenje važnima,

you're going to feel like crap.

osjećat ćete se posrano.

That's not an exact quote from Schopenhauer,

To nije točan Schopenhauerov citat,

but that is the gist of what he said.

ali je bit onoga što je rekao.

But weirdly, hardy anyone had scientifically investigated this,

Čudno, ali skoro nitko to nije znanstveno istraživao,

until a truly extraordinary person I got to know, named professor Tim Kasser,

sve do izvanredne osobe koju sam upoznao, profesora Tima Kassera,

who's at Knox College in Illinois,

koji radi na Knox Collegeu u Illinoisu,

and he's been researching this for about 30 years now.

a koji to istražuje već 30 godina.

And his research suggests several really important things.

Njegovo istraživanje sugerira nekoliko važnih stvari.

Firstly, the more you believe

Prvo, što više vjerujete da

you can buy and display your way out of sadness,

možete kupovati i pokazati što imate da biste pobjegli od tuge

and into a good life,

u bolji život,

the more likely you are to become depressed and anxious.

vjerojatnije je da ćete postati depresivni i anksiozni.

And secondly,

Drugo,

as a society, we have become much more driven by these beliefs.

kao društvo nas puno više vode takva vjerovanja.

All throughout my lifetime,

Kroz cijeli moj život,

under the weight of advertising and Instagram and everything like them.

pod teretom marketinga i Instagrama te tome sličnom.

And as I thought about this,

Dok sam razmišljao o tome,

I realized it's like we've all been fed since birth, a kind of KFC for the soul.

shvatio sam da je to kao da su nas sve od rođenja hranili KFC-om za dušu.

We've been trained to look for happiness in all the wrong places,

Dresirali su nas da tražimo sreću na krivim mjestima

and just like junk food doesn't meet your nutritional needs

i kao što brza hrana ne zadovoljava vaše nutritivne potrebe,

and actually makes you feel terrible,

zapravo se osjećate grozno zbog nje,

junk values don't meet your psychological needs,

nezdrave vrijednosti ne zadovoljavaju vaše psihološke potrebe

and they take you away from a good life.

te vas udaljavaju od dobrog života.

But when I first spent time with professor Kasser

No kad sam prvi put razgovarao s profesorom Kasserom

and I was learning all this,

i čuo sve to,

I felt a really weird mixture of emotions.

osjetio sam čudnu mješavinu emocija.

Because on the one hand, I found this really challenging.

Jer, u jednu ruku, to mi je bilo izazovno.

I could see how often in my own life, when I felt down,

Mogao sam vidjeti koliko sam često, kad sam se osjećao loše,

I tried to remedy it with some kind of show-offy, grand external solution.

pokušavao to popraviti nekim razmetljivim, velikim vanjskim rješenjem.

And I could see why that did not work well for me.

Uvidio sam zašto to nije funkcioniralo kod mene.

I also thought, isn't this kind of obvious?

Također sam pomislio, nije li to očito?

Isn't this almost like banal, right?

Nije li to banalno?

If I said to everyone here,

Kad bih rekao svima ovdje

none of you are going to lie on your deathbed

da nitko od vas neće na samrti

razmišljati o cipelama koje ste kupili ni retweetovima koje ste dobili,

and think about all the shoes you bought and all the retweets you got,

već ćete razmišljati o trenucima ljubavi, smisla i povezanosti u svom životu.

you're going to think about moments

of love, meaning and connection in your life.

Mislim da bi to zvučalo kao klišej.

I think that seems almost like a cliché.

No nastavio sam razgovarati s profesorom Kasserom:

But I kept talking to professor Kasser and saying,

"Zašto osjećam čudnu podvojenost?"

"Why am I feeling this strange doubleness?"

And he said, "At some level, we all know these things.

Odgovorio je: "Na nekoj razini, svi znamo te stvari.

But in this culture, we don't live by them."

No u ovoj kulturi, ne živimo u skladu s njima."

We know them so well they've become clichés,

Znamo ih tako dobro da su postali klišeji,

but we don't live by them.

ali ne živimo po njima.

I kept asking why, why would we know something so profound,

Nastavio sam ispitivati zašto znamo nešto toliko duboko,

but not live by it?

ali ne živimo po tome?

And after a while, professor Kasser said to me,

Nakon nekog vremena, profesor Kasser mi je rekao:

"Because we live in a machine

"Zato što živimo u stroju

that is designed to get us to neglect what is important about life."

dizajniranom da nas natjera da zanemarimo ono važno u životu."

I had to really think about that.

Morao sam dobro razmisliti o tome.

"Because we live in a machine

"Zato što živimo u stroju

that is designed to get us to neglect what is important about life."

dizajniranom da nas natjera da zanemarimo ono važno u životu."

And professor Kasser wanted to figure out if we can disrupt that machine.

Profesor Kasser je htio shvatiti možemo li razbiti taj stroj.

He's done loads of research into this;

Puno je to istraživao.

I'll tell you about one example,

Ispričat ću vam jedan primjer

and I really urge everyone here to try this with their friends and family.

i stvarno vas molim da isprobate to s prijateljima i obitelji.

With a guy called Nathan Dungan, he got a group of teenagers and adults

Zajedno s Nathanom Dunganom, pridobio je grupu tinejdžera i odraslih

to come together for a series of sessions over a period of time, to meet up.

da dođu na niz sastanaka tijekom određenog razdoblja.

And part of the point of the group

Jedan od ciljeva grupe je bio

was to get people to think about a moment in their life

da ljudi počnu razmišljati o onom trenutku u vlastitom životu

they had actually found meaning and purpose.

kad su pronašli smisao i svrhu.

For different people, it was different things.

Za različite ljude je to bilo različito.

For some people, it was playing music, writing, helping someone --

Za neke je ljude to bilo sviranje, pisanje, pomaganje -

I'm sure everyone here can picture something, right?

siguran sam da si svi mogu predočiti nešto.

And part of the point of the group was to get people to ask,

Drugi dio ciljeva grupe je bio da ljudi počnu pitati:

"OK, how could you dedicate more of your life

"Kako biste mogli više života posvetiti

to pursuing these moments of meaning and purpose,

potrazi za tim trenucima smisla i svrhe,

and less to, I don't know, buying crap you don't need,

a manje kupovati stvari koje ne trebate,

putting it on social media and trying to get people to go,

objavljivati ih na društvenim mrežama i htjeti da vam kažu:

"OMG, tako sam ljubomoran!"

'OMG, so jealous!'"

And what they found was,

Otkrili su da je

just having these meetings,

samo održavanje tih sastanaka

it was like a kind of Alcoholics Anonymous for consumerism, right?

bilo kao druženje anonimnih alkoholičara za konzumerizam.

Getting people to have these meetings, articulate these values,

To što su ljudi držali te sastanke, artikulirali te vrijednosti,

determine to act on them and check in with each other,

odlučili djelovati po njima i provjeravati ih između sebe,

led to a marked shift in people's values.

vodilo je izrazitom pomaku njihovih vrijednosti.

It took them away from this hurricane of depression-generating messages

To ih je udaljilo od uragana poruka koje izazivaju depresiju,

training us to seek happiness in the wrong places,

koje nas dresiraju da tražimo sreću na krivim mjestima,

and towards more meaningful and nourishing values

a približilo važnijim i zdravijim vrijednostima

that lift us out of depression.

koji nas uzdižu iz depresije.

But with all the solutions that I saw and have written about,

No i sa svim tim rješenjima koja sam vidio i o njima pisao,

and many I can't talk about here,

od kojih o mnogima sad ne mogu pričati,

I kept thinking,

nastavio sam razmišljati

you know: Why did it take me so long to see these insights?

"Zašto mi je trebalo toliko dugo da to uvidim?"

Because when you explain them to people --

Jer, kad ih objasnite ljudima -

some of them are more complicated, but not all --

neka od njih su složenija, ali ne sva -

kad to objasnite ljudima, nije to znanstvena fantastika.

when you explain this to people, it's not like rocket science, right?

Na nekoj razini, mi to već znamo.

At some level, we already know these things.

Zašto nam je toliko teško razumjeti to?

Why do we find it so hard to understand?

I think there's many reasons.

Mislim da ima puno razloga.

But I think one reason is that we have to change our understanding

Mislim da je jedan od razloga to da trebamo promijeniti naše shvaćanje

of what depression and anxiety actually are.

što depresija i anksioznost zapravo jesu.

There are very real biological contributions

Postoje stvarni biološki doprinosi

to depression and anxiety.

depresiji i anksioznosti.

But if we allow the biology to become the whole picture,

No ako dopustimo biologiji da postane cijela slika,

as I did for so long,

poput mene dosta vremena,

as I would argue our culture has done pretty much most of my life,

i kao što je naša kultura radila većinu mog života,

what we're implicitly saying to people is, and this isn't anyone's intention,

ono što implicitno govorimo ljudima, a to nije ničija namjera,

but what we're implicitly saying to people is,

ali ono što implicitno govorimo ljudima je:

"Your pain doesn't mean anything.

"Vaša bol ne znači ništa.

It's just a malfunction.

To je samo greška.

It's like a glitch in a computer program,

To je poput kvara u računalnom programu,

it's just a wiring problem in your head."

to je samo problem povezivanja u vašoj glavi."

But I was only able to start changing my life

No ja sam bio sposoban početi mijenjati svoj život

when I realized your depression is not a malfunction.

tek kad sam shvatio da depresija nije greška,

It's a signal.

to je signal.

Your depression is a signal.

Vaša depresija je signal.

It's telling you something.

Govori vam nešto.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

We feel this way for reasons,

Osjećamo je iz raznih razloga,

and they can be hard to see in the throes of depression --

a može ih biti teško razabrati u ponorima depresije -

I understand that really well from personal experience.

prilično to dobro razumijem iz vlastitog iskustva.

But with the right help, we can understand these problems

No uz pravu pomoć, možemo razumjeti te probleme

and we can fix these problems together.

i možemo ih riješiti zajedno.

But to do that,

No da to napravimo,

the very first step

prvi korak je

is we have to stop insulting these signals

da prestanemo vrijeđati te signale

by saying they're a sign of weakness, or madness or purely biological,

govoreći da su to znakovi slabosti, ludosti ili samo biologije,

except for a tiny number of people.

osim za sasvim mali broj ljudi.

We need to start listening to these signals,

Trebamo početi slušati te signale

because they're telling us something we really need to hear.

jer nam oni govore ono što stvarno trebamo čuti.

It's only when we truly listen to these signals,

Tek kad stvarno poslušamo te signale,

and we honor these signals and respect these signals,

kad ih cijenimo i poštujemo,

that we're going to begin to see

tek tad ćemo početi uviđati

the liberating, nourishing, deeper solutions.

oslobađajuća i dublja rješenja.

The cows that are waiting all around us.

Krave koje nas čekaju oko nas.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)