Building a dinosaur from a chicken | Jack Horner

翻译人员: Xiaoqiao Xie 校对人员: Angelia King

When I was growing up in Montana,

我在蒙太拿长大

I had two dreams.

有两个梦想

I wanted to be a paleontologist,

一个是成为古生物学家

a dinosaur paleontologist,

研究恐龙的古生物学家

and I wanted to have a pet dinosaur.

一个是拥有一个小恐龙作为宠物

And so that's what I've been striving for

这是我整个生命中

all of my life.

工作的动力

I was very fortunate

我很幸运

early in my career.

在我职业生涯的早期

I was fortunate

我在发掘方面

in finding things.

很走运

I wasn't very good at reading things.

我不擅长于阅读

In fact, I don't read much of anything.

事实上，我并不读什么文献

I am extremely dyslexic,

我在阅读方面有障碍

and so reading is the hardest thing I do.

阅读对我来说是最难的事

But instead, I go out and I find things.

但是我走出去，发掘东西

Then I just pick things up.

我就能获得信息

I basically practice for finding money on the street.

基本上我是靠在街上捡钱来训练的

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And I wander about the hills,

我对山陵感兴趣

and I have found a few things.

也发现了一些东西

And I have been fortunate enough

特别幸运的是

to find things like the first eggs in the Western hemisphere

我发现了西半球上第一个恐龙蛋

and the first baby dinosaurs in nests,

第一个还在巢中的恐龙宝宝

the first dinosaur embryos

第一个恐龙胚胎

and massive accumulations of bones.

还有数量巨大的恐龙骨头

And it happened to be at a time

那时刚好是

when people were just starting to begin to realize

人们开始认识到

that dinosaurs weren't the big, stupid, green reptiles

恐龙并不是笨重的爬虫的时期

that people had thought for so many years.

人们从前这样想了很多年

People were starting to get an idea

那时大家开始觉得

that dinosaurs were special.

恐龙其实挺特别的

And so, at that time,

所以那时候

I was able to make some interesting hypotheses

我有机会试验很多理论

along with my colleagues.

当然还有我的同僚们

We were able to actually say

我们能够证明

that dinosaurs -- based on the evidence we had --

恐龙——从我们有的证据来看——

that dinosaurs built nests

恐龙能建巢

and lived in colonies

群居生活

and cared for their young,

能够照料幼小宝宝

brought food to their babies

捕食回巢给宝宝吃

and traveled in gigantic herds.

迁移的时候是大群一起走的

So it was pretty interesting stuff.

这些都很有趣

I have gone on to find more things

我还进一步发现

and discover that dinosaurs really were very social.

恐龙其实是非常社会性的动物

We have found a lot of evidence

我们有很多证据

that dinosaurs changed

说明恐龙在从少年到成年的期间

from when they were juveniles to when they were adults.

变化巨大

The appearance of them would have been different --

它们的外表很不一样——

which it is in all social animals.

这在社会性的动物中可见

In social groups of animals,

在动物的社会群体中

the juveniles always look different than the adults.

少年们总是和成年动物看起来不一样的

The adults can recognize the juveniles;

这样成年动物就能认出少年动物

the juveniles can recognize the adults.

少年们也能认出成年动物

And so we're making a better picture

我们这样就对恐龙是什么样的动物

of what a dinosaur looks like.

有了一个宏观的看法

And they didn't just all chase Jeeps around.

它们并不是仅仅乱追吉普车的

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But it is that social thing

我想正是这社会性

that I guess attracted Michael Crichton.

引起了迈克尔·克赖顿的兴趣

And in his book, he talked about the social animals.

在他的书里，他讲到了这个社会性

And then Steven Spielberg, of course,

接着斯蒂文·斯皮尔伯格，当然了

depicts these dinosaurs

把恐龙们描绘成

as being very social creatures.

非常社会性的动物

The theme of this story is building a dinosaur,

他们故事的主题是重造恐龙

and so we come to that part of "Jurassic Park."

这样我们就有了“侏罗纪公园”的故事

Michael Crichton really was one of the first people

迈克尔·克赖顿其实是第一批人

to talk about bringing dinosaurs back to life.

开始谈论怎么重新让恐龙复生的

You all know the story, right.

你们都知道这个故事吧

I mean, I assume everyone here has seen "Jurassic Park."

我指假设每个人都看过“侏罗纪公园”

If you want to make a dinosaur,

如果你想造出个恐龙

you go out, you find yourself a piece of petrified tree sap --

你出去找一块石化的天然树脂——

otherwise known as amber --

也就是所谓的琥珀——

that has some blood-sucking insects in it,

找一个有吸血昆虫的

good ones,

质量好的

and you get your insect and you drill into it

这样你有了昆虫，就钻个洞进去

and you suck out some DNA,

吸出一些DNA

because obviously all insects that sucked blood in those days

当然了，因为那时候所有的吸血昆虫

sucked dinosaur DNA out.

都吸的是恐龙的DNA

And you take your DNA back to the laboratory

你把DNA拿回实验室

and you clone it.

克隆一把

And I guess you inject it into maybe an ostrich egg,

我猜是通过把DNA注射到一个鸵鸟蛋里

or something like that,

或者别的什么大蛋

and then you wait,

你就等吧

and, lo and behold, out pops a little baby dinosaur.

运气好的话，小恐龙就破壳而出啦

And everybody's happy about that.

皆大欢喜

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And they're happy over and over again.

皆大欢喜一次又一次之后

They keep doing it; they just keep making these things.

他们不断克隆，不断造恐龙

And then, then, then, and then ...

然后

Then the dinosaurs, being social,

这么多恐龙就社交起来啦

act out their socialness,

社会性十足

and they get together,

它们聚到一起

and they conspire.

密谋策反

And, of course, that's what makes Steven Spielberg's movie --

当然了，这就成就了斯蒂文·斯皮尔伯格的电影——

conspiring dinosaurs chasing people around.

造反的恐龙把人追得到处跑

So I assume everybody knows

我假定每个人都知道

that if you actually had a piece of amber and it had an insect in it,

如果你真的拿一块琥珀，有昆虫的

and you drilled into it,

钻个洞

and you got something out of that insect,

得到一些原料

and you cloned it, and you did it over and over and over again,

克隆一把，重复做这件事

you'd have a room full of mosquitos.

你只能得到一屋子的蚊子

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

And probably a whole bunch of trees as well.

可能还不济一些树木

Now if you want dinosaur DNA,

你想要恐龙的DNA

I say go to the dinosaur.

就要在恐龙身上找

So that's what we've done.

这正是我们的策略

Back in 1993 when the movie came out,

回溯到1993年，当这个电影开始放映时

we actually had a grant from the National Science Foundation

我们其实已经拿了国家科学基金，

to attempt to extract DNA from a dinosaur,

在试图从恐龙化石中提取DNA

and we chose the dinosaur on the left,

我们选了图上左边的恐龙

a Tyrannosaurus rex, which was a very nice specimen.

是个暴龙化石，保存得很好的标本

And one of my former doctoral students,

我当时的一个博士生

Dr. Mary Schweitzer,

现在是玛丽·施韦策博士了

actually had the background

有做类似研究的

to do this sort of thing.

基础

And so she looked into the bone of this T. rex,

所以她在这个暴龙的骨头里

one of the thigh bones,

一条大腿骨里

and she actually found

找到了

some very interesting structures in there.

一些非常有趣的组织

They found these red circular-looking objects,

他们发现了红色的，圆形的东西

and they looked, for all the world,

特别像

like red blood cells.

红细胞

And they're in

它们正好在

what appear to be the blood channels

血管里

that go through the bone.

在骨头中间

And so she thought, well, what the heck.

所以她就想，不如一试

So she sampled some material out of it.

她提取了一些组织出来

Now it wasn't DNA; she didn't find DNA.

这些不是DNA，她没找到DNA

But she did find heme,

但是她发现了原血红素

which is the biological foundation

正是血红素

of hemoglobin.

的基础

And that was really cool.

这是个大发现

That was interesting.

非常有趣

That was -- here we have 65-million-year-old heme.

这可是六千五百万年前的原血红素

Well we tried and tried

我们试了很久

and we couldn't really get anything else out of it.

没得到任何结果

So a few years went by,

几年过去了

and then we started the Hell Creek Project.

我们开始了地狱溪计划

And the Hell Creek Project was this massive undertaking

这个地狱溪计划是一场大发掘

to get as many dinosaurs as we could possibly find,

目的是挖出尽量多的恐龙化石

and hopefully find some dinosaurs

希望发现一些恐龙化石

that had more material in them.

是有更多的遗传物质的

And out in eastern Montana

在蒙太拿东部

there's a lot of space, a lot of badlands,

那里有很多空地，很多不毛之地

and not very many people,

没有什么居民

and so you can go out there and find a lot of stuff.

你可就出去找到很多东西

And we did find a lot of stuff.

我们也的确发现了很多东西

We found a lot of Tyrannosaurs,

我们发现了很多暴龙化石

but we found one special Tyrannosaur,

其中一种很特殊

and we called it B-rex.

叫做B型暴龙

And B-rex was found

B型暴龙是在

under a thousand cubic yards of rock.

一片上千立方的岩石群下发现的

It wasn't a very complete T. rex,

这并不完全是暴龙

and it wasn't a very big T. rex,

也不是特别大的暴龙

but it was a very special B-rex.

但是这是一种十分特殊的B型暴龙

And I and my colleagues cut into it,

我和同事们把化石切开

and we were able to determine,

我们能够确定

by looking at lines of arrested growth, some lines in it,

从看骨头里的生长线，

that B-rex had died at the age of 16.

这个B型暴龙是十六岁时死的

We don't really know how long dinosaurs lived,

我们并不知道恐龙一般活多久

because we haven't found the oldest one yet.

因为我们还没找到最老的

But this one died at the age of 16.

但是这只恐龙在十六岁时死去

We gave samples to Mary Schweitzer,

我们把样本给玛丽·施韦策

and she was actually able to determine

她能确定

that B-rex was a female

这个B型暴龙是雌性

based on medullary tissue

因为骨头里

found on the inside of the bone.

的髓状组织的样子

Medullary tissue is the calcium build-up,

髓状组织全是积累的钙

the calcium storage basically,

也就是钙库

when an animal is pregnant,

动物怀孕时会产生

when a bird is pregnant.

鸟类怀孕时也会产生

So here was the character

这是一个把鸟类

that linked birds and dinosaurs.

和恐龙连起来的特征

But Mary went further.

玛丽继续探索

She took the bone, and she dumped it into acid.

她把骨头放入酸中

Now we all know that bones are fossilized,

我们知道骨头已经变成化石了

and so if you dump it into acid,

所以把化石放在酸里

there shouldn't be anything left.

应该会全溶解

But there was something left.

但是这次有些东西不溶

There were blood vessels left.

它们就是血管

There were flexible, clear blood vessels.

这些是柔韧的，透明的血管

And so here was the first soft tissue from a dinosaur.

也是第一次在恐龙化石里发现软组织

It was extraordinary.

这非常了不起

But she also found osteocytes,

她还发现了骨细胞

which are the cells that laid down the bones.

也就是组成骨头的细胞

And try and try, we could not find DNA,

通过不断试验，我们还是没有发现DNA

but she did find evidence of proteins.

但是她发现了蛋白质

But we thought maybe --

我们认为——

well, we thought maybe

仅仅是认为

that the material was breaking down after it was coming out of the ground.

在组织被发掘出来后，它们就很快降解了

We thought maybe it was deteriorating very fast.

我们认为这些组织降解的很快

And so we built a laboratory

所以我们就在一个十八轮的大方车里

in the back of an 18-wheeler trailer,

造了个实验室

and actually took the laboratory to the field

把实验室带到野外

where we could get better samples.

我们发掘样本的地方

And we did. We got better material.

我们这样做了，也得到了更好的样本

The cells looked better.

细胞看起来更好

The vessels looked better.

血管看起来更好

Found the protein collagen.

胶原蛋白更好

I mean, it was wonderful stuff.

这都很完美

But it's not dinosaur DNA.

但是还是找不到恐龙的DNA

So we have discovered

我们已经知道

that dinosaur DNA, and all DNA,

恐龙的DNA，或者说所有的DNA

just breaks down too fast.

实在是降解的太快了

We're just not going to be able

我们就是不能够

to do what they did in "Jurassic Park."

像电影“侏罗纪公园”里一样得到DNA

We're not going to be able to make a dinosaur

我们不能用恐龙

based on a dinosaur.

来重造恐龙

But birds are dinosaurs.

但是还在鸟类就是恐龙

Birds are living dinosaurs.

鸟类是活恐龙

We actually classify them

我们其实把鸟类

as dinosaurs.

归为和恐龙一类

We now call them non-avian dinosaurs

我们现在管恐龙叫非鸟类恐龙

and avian dinosaurs.

管鸟类叫鸟类恐龙

So the non-avian dinosaurs

所以这些非鸟类恐龙

are the big clunky ones that went extinct.

就是那些已经灭绝了的大家伙

Avian dinosaurs are our modern birds.

鸟类恐龙就是我们现代的鸟类

So we don't have to make a dinosaur

我们不需要造什么恐龙

because we already have them.

我们已经有啦

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I know, you're as bad as the sixth-graders.

你们简直就像一帮六年级学生

(Laughter)

（笑声）

The sixth-graders look at it and they say, "No."

六年级学生看看我说：“这行不通。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

"You can call it a dinosaur,

“你尽管叫这个为鸟类恐龙

but look at the velociraptor: the velociraptor is cool."

但是看看真的迅猛龙，那才叫恐龙。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

"The chicken is not."

“鸡可不那么酷。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So this is our problem,

这正是我们的问题

as you can imagine.

你可以想象

The chicken is a dinosaur.

鸡就是恐龙

I mean it really is.

我是说，它真的是

You can't argue with it

你辩不过我

because we're the classifiers and we've classified it that way.

因为我们是专管分类的人，我们就爱这么分

(Laughter)

（笑声）

(Applause)

（掌声）

But the sixth-graders demand it.

但是六年级学生还是不认输

"Fix the chicken."

“你得改造鸡。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So that's what I'm here to tell you about:

这就是我想告诉你们的

how we are going to fix a chicken.

我们是怎么改造鸡的

So we have a number of ways

我们有几种方法

that we actually can fix the chicken.

可以把鸡改造成恐龙

Because evolution works,

因为有进化

we actually have some evolutionary tools.

我们可以用进化的方法

We'll call them biological modification tools.

我们管它叫生物改良法

We have selection.

我们可以选择

And we know selection works.

我们也知道选择是可行的

We started out with a wolf-like creature

我们从一只狼一样的动物开始

and we ended up with a Maltese.

最后得到一个马耳他人

I mean, that's --

我是说，这真的——

that's definitely genetic modification.

真的是基因改良工程

Or any of the other funny-looking little dogs.

或者任何其它有趣的好看的小狗

We also have transgenesis.

我们还有转基因技术

Transgenesis is really cool too.

转基因也是很有用的工具

That's where you take a gene out of one animal and stick it in another one.

你把一个动物的基因拿出来，放在另一个动物里

That's how people make GloFish.

这就是怎么做荧光鱼的

You take a glow gene

你拿一个荧光的基因

out of a coral or a jellyfish

从珊瑚或者水母中来

and you stick it in a zebrafish,

放在斑马鱼体内

and, puff, they glow.

它们就能发荧光

And that's pretty cool.

很奇妙吧

And they obviously make a lot of money off of them.

人们用这个赚大钱

And now they're making Glow-rabbits

现在他们在做荧光兔

and Glow-all-sorts-of-things.

荧光很多东西

I guess we could make a glow chicken.

我就想我们可以做个荧光鸡

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But I don't think that'll satisfy the sixth-graders either.

但是我不认为这能够说服六年级学生

But there's another thing.

还有一个武器

There's what we call atavism activation.

叫做返祖激活

And atavism activation

返祖激活

is basically --

其实就是——

an atavism is an ancestral characteristic.

返祖现象就是重现祖先的特征

You heard

你听过

that occasionally children are born with tails,

有些孩子出生时有小尾巴

and it's because it's an ancestral characteristic.

这就是返祖现象

And so there are a number of atavisms

有些返祖现象

that can happen.

常常发生

Snakes are occasionally born with legs.

蛇有时有腿

And here's an example.

这就是个例子

This is a chicken with teeth.

这是个生下来有牙齿的鸡

A fellow by the name of Matthew Harris

一个叫马修·海瑞斯的人

at the University of Wisconsin in Madison

在威斯康辛麦迪逊大学工作

actually figured out a way to stimulate

发现了如何刺激

the gene for teeth,

牙齿基因的生长

and so was able to actually turn the tooth gene on

所以他能够让牙齿基因生长

and produce teeth in chickens.

在鸡身上长牙齿

Now that's a good characteristic.

这是个好的特征

We can save that one.

我们能保留这个科技

We know we can use that.

我们能用这个

We can make a chicken with teeth.

我们可以让鸡生牙齿

That's getting closer.

这离恐龙就近了一步

That's better than a glowing chicken.

比荧光鸡要有用

(Laughter)

（笑声）

A friend of mine, a colleague of mine,

我有个朋友，一个同事

Dr. Hans Larsson at McGill University,

在麦克吉尔大学的汉斯·拉尔森博士

is actually looking at atavisms.

在研究返祖现象

And he's looking at them

他研究返祖

by looking at the embryo genesis of birds

是通过研究鸟的胚胎发育

and actually looking at how they develop,

看它们是怎么发育的

and he's interested in how birds actually lost their tail.

他对鸟类的尾巴是怎么消失的感兴趣

He's also interested in the transformation

他同时也对前肢，爪子，和翅膀

of the arm, the hand, to the wing.

的变化感兴趣

He's looking for those genes as well.

他也研究有关的基因

And I said, "Well, if you can find those,

我说：“如果你能找到这些基因，

I can just reverse them

我就能靠让它们倒行逆施，

and make what I need to make for the sixth-graders."

得到六年级学生要求的恐龙鸡”

And so he agreed.

他同意了

And so that's what we're looking into.

这就是我们研究的东西

If you look at dinosaur hands,

如果你注意恐龙的爪子

a velociraptor

迅猛龙

has that cool-looking hand with the claws on it.

有特殊的手掌，末端有爪子

Archaeopteryx, which is a bird, a primitive bird,

始祖鸟，其实是鸟，一个鸟类的先祖

still has that very primitive hand.

还有着先祖的手掌

But as you can see, the pigeon,

但是你可以看到，鸽子

or a chicken or anything else, another bird,

或者鸡，或者其它任何一个鸟类

has kind of a weird-looking hand,

都有这样怪怪的手掌

because the hand is a wing.

因为手变成了翅膀

But the cool thing is

但是有趣的是

that, if you look in the embryo,

如果你看它们的胚胎

as the embryo is developing

在胚胎发育的时候

the hand actually looks

州长其实看起来像是

pretty much like the archaeopteryx hand.

始祖鸟的手掌

It has the three fingers, the three digits.

三个手指，三个脚趾

But a gene turns on that actually fuses those together.

但是后来一个基因开始运作，使得手指脚趾都混合在一起了

And so what we're looking for is that gene.

我们就在找这个基因

We want to stop that gene from turning on,

我们希望防止这个基因运作

fusing those hands together,

不让手掌混合在一起

so we can get a chicken that hatches out with a three-fingered hand,

我们就能得到三个手指的鸡

like the archaeopteryx.

就像始祖鸟一样

And the same goes for the tails.

对尾巴也一样

Birds have basically

鸟类其实

rudimentary tails.

有没发育完的尾巴

And so we know

我们知道

that in embryo,

在胚胎中

as the animal is developing,

当动物发育时

it actually has a relatively long tail.

有个其实很长的尾巴

But a gene turns on

但是一个基因开始运作

and resorbs the tail, gets rid of it.

消融了尾巴，它就消失了

So that's the other gene we're looking for.

这就是我们在找的另一个基因

We want to stop that tail from resorbing.

我们希望防止尾巴被消融

So what we're trying to do really

所以我们试图做的

is take our chicken,

是拿一只鸡

modify it

改造它

and make the chickenosaurus.

并造出鸡恐龙

(Laughter)

（笑声）

It's a cooler-looking chicken.

这鸡看起来就酷多了

But it's just the very basics.

但是这只是非常基本的改造

So that really is what we're doing.

这就是我们在做的东西

And people always say, "Why do that?

人们总是问：“为什么做这个？

Why make this thing?

为什么造那个？

What good is it?"

有什么好处？”

Well, that's a good question.

这是个好问题

Actually, I think it's a great way to teach kids

事实上，我想这是教孩子

about evolutionary biology

进化论和发育生物学

and developmental biology

和其它很多东西

and all sorts of things.

的最好方法

And quite frankly, I think

坦白说我认为

if Colonel Sanders

如果肯德基山德士上校

was to be careful how he worded it,

当年想得开阔一些，他的措辞留心一下

he could actually advertise an extra piece.

说不定也能为鸡恐龙作上额外广告

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Anyway --

总之——

When our dino-chicken hatches,

当我们的恐龙鸡孵化时

it will be, obviously, the poster child,

会变成海报明星宝宝

or what you might call a poster chick,

或者你可以称它海报明星鸡宝宝

for technology, entertainment and design.

代言科技，娱乐和设计

Thank you.

谢谢大家

(Applause)

（掌声）