Building a dinosaur from a chicken | Jack Horner

1,244,072 views ・ 2011-06-07

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00:15
When I was growing up in Montana,
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I had two dreams.
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I wanted to be a paleontologist,
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a dinosaur paleontologist,
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and I wanted to have a pet dinosaur.
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And so that's what I've been striving for
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all of my life.
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I was very fortunate
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early in my career.
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I was fortunate
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in finding things.
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I wasn't very good at reading things.
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In fact, I don't read much of anything.
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I am extremely dyslexic,
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and so reading is the hardest thing I do.
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But instead, I go out and I find things.
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Then I just pick things up.
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I basically practice for finding money on the street.
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(Laughter)
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And I wander about the hills,
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and I have found a few things.
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And I have been fortunate enough
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to find things like the first eggs in the Western hemisphere
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and the first baby dinosaurs in nests,
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the first dinosaur embryos
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and massive accumulations of bones.
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And it happened to be at a time
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when people were just starting to begin to realize
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that dinosaurs weren't the big, stupid, green reptiles
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that people had thought for so many years.
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People were starting to get an idea
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that dinosaurs were special.
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And so, at that time,
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I was able to make some interesting hypotheses
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along with my colleagues.
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We were able to actually say
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that dinosaurs -- based on the evidence we had --
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that dinosaurs built nests
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and lived in colonies
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and cared for their young,
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brought food to their babies
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and traveled in gigantic herds.
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So it was pretty interesting stuff.
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I have gone on to find more things
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and discover that dinosaurs really were very social.
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We have found a lot of evidence
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that dinosaurs changed
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from when they were juveniles to when they were adults.
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The appearance of them would have been different --
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which it is in all social animals.
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In social groups of animals,
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the juveniles always look different than the adults.
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The adults can recognize the juveniles;
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the juveniles can recognize the adults.
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And so we're making a better picture
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of what a dinosaur looks like.
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And they didn't just all chase Jeeps around.
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(Laughter)
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But it is that social thing
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that I guess attracted Michael Crichton.
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And in his book, he talked about the social animals.
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And then Steven Spielberg, of course,
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depicts these dinosaurs
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as being very social creatures.
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The theme of this story is building a dinosaur,
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and so we come to that part of "Jurassic Park."
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Michael Crichton really was one of the first people
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to talk about bringing dinosaurs back to life.
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You all know the story, right.
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I mean, I assume everyone here has seen "Jurassic Park."
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If you want to make a dinosaur,
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you go out, you find yourself a piece of petrified tree sap --
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otherwise known as amber --
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that has some blood-sucking insects in it,
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good ones,
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and you get your insect and you drill into it
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and you suck out some DNA,
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because obviously all insects that sucked blood in those days
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sucked dinosaur DNA out.
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And you take your DNA back to the laboratory
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and you clone it.
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And I guess you inject it into maybe an ostrich egg,
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or something like that,
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and then you wait,
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and, lo and behold, out pops a little baby dinosaur.
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And everybody's happy about that.
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(Laughter)
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And they're happy over and over again.
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They keep doing it; they just keep making these things.
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And then, then, then, and then ...
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Then the dinosaurs, being social,
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act out their socialness,
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and they get together,
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and they conspire.
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And, of course, that's what makes Steven Spielberg's movie --
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conspiring dinosaurs chasing people around.
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So I assume everybody knows
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that if you actually had a piece of amber and it had an insect in it,
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and you drilled into it,
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and you got something out of that insect,
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and you cloned it, and you did it over and over and over again,
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you'd have a room full of mosquitos.
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(Laughter)
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(Applause)
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And probably a whole bunch of trees as well.
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Now if you want dinosaur DNA,
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I say go to the dinosaur.
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So that's what we've done.
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Back in 1993 when the movie came out,
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we actually had a grant from the National Science Foundation
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to attempt to extract DNA from a dinosaur,
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and we chose the dinosaur on the left,
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a Tyrannosaurus rex, which was a very nice specimen.
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And one of my former doctoral students,
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Dr. Mary Schweitzer,
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actually had the background
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to do this sort of thing.
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And so she looked into the bone of this T. rex,
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one of the thigh bones,
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and she actually found
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some very interesting structures in there.
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They found these red circular-looking objects,
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and they looked, for all the world,
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like red blood cells.
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And they're in
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what appear to be the blood channels
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that go through the bone.
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And so she thought, well, what the heck.
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So she sampled some material out of it.
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Now it wasn't DNA; she didn't find DNA.
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But she did find heme,
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which is the biological foundation
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of hemoglobin.
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And that was really cool.
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That was interesting.
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That was -- here we have 65-million-year-old heme.
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Well we tried and tried
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and we couldn't really get anything else out of it.
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So a few years went by,
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and then we started the Hell Creek Project.
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And the Hell Creek Project was this massive undertaking
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to get as many dinosaurs as we could possibly find,
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and hopefully find some dinosaurs
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that had more material in them.
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And out in eastern Montana
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there's a lot of space, a lot of badlands,
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and not very many people,
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and so you can go out there and find a lot of stuff.
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And we did find a lot of stuff.
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We found a lot of Tyrannosaurs,
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but we found one special Tyrannosaur,
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and we called it B-rex.
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And B-rex was found
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under a thousand cubic yards of rock.
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It wasn't a very complete T. rex,
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and it wasn't a very big T. rex,
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but it was a very special B-rex.
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And I and my colleagues cut into it,
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and we were able to determine,
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by looking at lines of arrested growth, some lines in it,
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that B-rex had died at the age of 16.
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We don't really know how long dinosaurs lived,
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because we haven't found the oldest one yet.
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But this one died at the age of 16.
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We gave samples to Mary Schweitzer,
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and she was actually able to determine
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that B-rex was a female
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based on medullary tissue
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found on the inside of the bone.
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Medullary tissue is the calcium build-up,
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the calcium storage basically,
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when an animal is pregnant,
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when a bird is pregnant.
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So here was the character
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that linked birds and dinosaurs.
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But Mary went further.
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She took the bone, and she dumped it into acid.
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Now we all know that bones are fossilized,
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and so if you dump it into acid,
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there shouldn't be anything left.
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But there was something left.
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There were blood vessels left.
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There were flexible, clear blood vessels.
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And so here was the first soft tissue from a dinosaur.
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It was extraordinary.
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But she also found osteocytes,
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which are the cells that laid down the bones.
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And try and try, we could not find DNA,
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but she did find evidence of proteins.
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But we thought maybe --
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well, we thought maybe
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that the material was breaking down after it was coming out of the ground.
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We thought maybe it was deteriorating very fast.
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And so we built a laboratory
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in the back of an 18-wheeler trailer,
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and actually took the laboratory to the field
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where we could get better samples.
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And we did. We got better material.
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The cells looked better.
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The vessels looked better.
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Found the protein collagen.
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I mean, it was wonderful stuff.
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But it's not dinosaur DNA.
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So we have discovered
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that dinosaur DNA, and all DNA,
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just breaks down too fast.
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We're just not going to be able
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to do what they did in "Jurassic Park."
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We're not going to be able to make a dinosaur
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based on a dinosaur.
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But birds are dinosaurs.
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Birds are living dinosaurs.
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We actually classify them
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as dinosaurs.
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We now call them non-avian dinosaurs
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and avian dinosaurs.
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So the non-avian dinosaurs
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are the big clunky ones that went extinct.
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Avian dinosaurs are our modern birds.
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So we don't have to make a dinosaur
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because we already have them.
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(Laughter)
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I know, you're as bad as the sixth-graders.
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(Laughter)
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The sixth-graders look at it and they say, "No."
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(Laughter)
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"You can call it a dinosaur,
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but look at the velociraptor: the velociraptor is cool."
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(Laughter)
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"The chicken is not."
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(Laughter)
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So this is our problem,
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as you can imagine.
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The chicken is a dinosaur.
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I mean it really is.
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You can't argue with it
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because we're the classifiers and we've classified it that way.
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(Laughter)
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(Applause)
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But the sixth-graders demand it.
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"Fix the chicken."
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(Laughter)
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So that's what I'm here to tell you about:
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how we are going to fix a chicken.
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So we have a number of ways
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that we actually can fix the chicken.
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Because evolution works,
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we actually have some evolutionary tools.
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We'll call them biological modification tools.
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We have selection.
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And we know selection works.
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We started out with a wolf-like creature
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and we ended up with a Maltese.
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I mean, that's --
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that's definitely genetic modification.
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Or any of the other funny-looking little dogs.
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We also have transgenesis.
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Transgenesis is really cool too.
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That's where you take a gene out of one animal and stick it in another one.
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That's how people make GloFish.
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You take a glow gene
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out of a coral or a jellyfish
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and you stick it in a zebrafish,
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and, puff, they glow.
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And that's pretty cool.
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And they obviously make a lot of money off of them.
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And now they're making Glow-rabbits
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and Glow-all-sorts-of-things.
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I guess we could make a glow chicken.
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(Laughter)
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But I don't think that'll satisfy the sixth-graders either.
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But there's another thing.
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There's what we call atavism activation.
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And atavism activation
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is basically --
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an atavism is an ancestral characteristic.
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You heard
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that occasionally children are born with tails,
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and it's because it's an ancestral characteristic.
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And so there are a number of atavisms
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that can happen.
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Snakes are occasionally born with legs.
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And here's an example.
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This is a chicken with teeth.
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A fellow by the name of Matthew Harris
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at the University of Wisconsin in Madison
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actually figured out a way to stimulate
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the gene for teeth,
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and so was able to actually turn the tooth gene on
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and produce teeth in chickens.
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Now that's a good characteristic.
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We can save that one.
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We know we can use that.
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We can make a chicken with teeth.
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That's getting closer.
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That's better than a glowing chicken.
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(Laughter)
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A friend of mine, a colleague of mine,
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Dr. Hans Larsson at McGill University,
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is actually looking at atavisms.
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And he's looking at them
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by looking at the embryo genesis of birds
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and actually looking at how they develop,
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and he's interested in how birds actually lost their tail.
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He's also interested in the transformation
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of the arm, the hand, to the wing.
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He's looking for those genes as well.
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And I said, "Well, if you can find those,
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I can just reverse them
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and make what I need to make for the sixth-graders."
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And so he agreed.
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And so that's what we're looking into.
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If you look at dinosaur hands,
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a velociraptor
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has that cool-looking hand with the claws on it.
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Archaeopteryx, which is a bird, a primitive bird,
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still has that very primitive hand.
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But as you can see, the pigeon,
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or a chicken or anything else, another bird,
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has kind of a weird-looking hand,
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because the hand is a wing.
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But the cool thing is
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that, if you look in the embryo,
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as the embryo is developing
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the hand actually looks
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pretty much like the archaeopteryx hand.
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It has the three fingers, the three digits.
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But a gene turns on that actually fuses those together.
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And so what we're looking for is that gene.
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We want to stop that gene from turning on,
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fusing those hands together,
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so we can get a chicken that hatches out with a three-fingered hand,
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like the archaeopteryx.
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And the same goes for the tails.
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Birds have basically
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rudimentary tails.
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And so we know
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that in embryo,
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as the animal is developing,
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it actually has a relatively long tail.
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But a gene turns on
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and resorbs the tail, gets rid of it.
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So that's the other gene we're looking for.
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We want to stop that tail from resorbing.
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So what we're trying to do really
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is take our chicken,
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modify it
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and make the chickenosaurus.
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(Laughter)
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It's a cooler-looking chicken.
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But it's just the very basics.
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So that really is what we're doing.
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And people always say, "Why do that?
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Why make this thing?
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What good is it?"
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Well, that's a good question.
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Actually, I think it's a great way to teach kids
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about evolutionary biology
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and developmental biology
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and all sorts of things.
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And quite frankly, I think
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if Colonel Sanders
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was to be careful how he worded it,
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he could actually advertise an extra piece.
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(Laughter)
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Anyway --
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When our dino-chicken hatches,
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it will be, obviously, the poster child,
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or what you might call a poster chick,
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for technology, entertainment and design.
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Thank you.
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16:27
(Applause)
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About this website

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