Building a dinosaur from a chicken | Jack Horner

譯者: Ann Lee 審譯者: Sean Chuang

When I was growing up in Montana,

當我在Montana長大時

I had two dreams.

我有過兩個夢想

I wanted to be a paleontologist,

我想要做一名古生物學家

a dinosaur paleontologist,

一名恐龍古生物學家

and I wanted to have a pet dinosaur.

我還想要一隻恐龍當寵物

And so that's what I've been striving for

所以這就是我在努力

all of my life.

一生的夢想

I was very fortunate

我是非常幸運

early in my career.

在我的早期職業生涯

I was fortunate

我找東西時

in finding things.

很幸運

I wasn't very good at reading things.

我不是很善於閱讀

In fact, I don't read much of anything.

其實，我不讀的東西很多

I am extremely dyslexic,

我是有嚴重的閱讀障礙

and so reading is the hardest thing I do.

所以閱讀時我做的最困難的事

But instead, I go out and I find things.

不過， 我走出家門去找東西

Then I just pick things up.

然後我在地上拾東西

I basically practice for finding money on the street.

我基本上是在練習在地上找錢

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And I wander about the hills,

我在小山中漫遊

and I have found a few things.

找到了一些東西

And I have been fortunate enough

和我已經夠幸運

to find things like the first eggs in the Western hemisphere

能找到在西半球裡的第一只蛋

and the first baby dinosaurs in nests,

和第一只恐龍寶寶在巢裡

the first dinosaur embryos

第一個恐龍胚胎

and massive accumulations of bones.

和大量積累的骨頭

And it happened to be at a time

就在當

when people were just starting to begin to realize

人們就開始明白

that dinosaurs weren't the big, stupid, green reptiles

恐龍不是那些人們則麽多年來以為的

that people had thought for so many years.

大，笨，綠色的爬行動物

People were starting to get an idea

人本開始得到一個想法

that dinosaurs were special.

恐龍是特別的

And so, at that time,

所以在那時

I was able to make some interesting hypotheses

我能夠和我的同事

along with my colleagues.

做一些有趣的假設

We were able to actually say

我們其實可以說

that dinosaurs -- based on the evidence we had --

恐龍-根據我們的證據-

that dinosaurs built nests

恐龍蓋巢

and lived in colonies

住在群里

and cared for their young,

和 照顧他們的幼代

brought food to their babies

帶給他們的寶寶食物

and traveled in gigantic herds.

而在巨大的群裡移動

So it was pretty interesting stuff.

所以這是非常有趣的東西

I have gone on to find more things

我已經在尋找更多的事情

and discover that dinosaurs really were very social.

並發現恐龍真的是很有社會感。

We have found a lot of evidence

我們找到了很多證據

that dinosaurs changed

表示恐龍會變

from when they were juveniles to when they were adults.

從他們幼兒期、青少年時期到成人期

The appearance of them would have been different --

他們的外表會改變

which it is in all social animals.

想在全部的集體動物

In social groups of animals,

在動物的群體中，

the juveniles always look different than the adults.

幼兒一直和成年長的不同

The adults can recognize the juveniles;

大的可以識別的未成年的

the juveniles can recognize the adults.

未成年的可以識別的大的

And so we're making a better picture

所以，我們是在做一個更好的描述

of what a dinosaur looks like.

恐龍是什麼樣子

And they didn't just all chase Jeeps around.

他們不只整天在追逐吉普車

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But it is that social thing

但是社會的事情

that I guess attracted Michael Crichton.

我想吸引邁克爾克萊頓 （Michael Crichton)

And in his book, he talked about the social animals.

並在他的書中，他談到了社會性的動物

And then Steven Spielberg, of course,

然後史蒂芬斯皮爾伯格（Steven Spielberg），當然

depicts these dinosaurs

描述這些恐龍

as being very social creatures.

作為非常社會的動物

The theme of this story is building a dinosaur,

這個故事的主題是建立一只恐龍

and so we come to that part of "Jurassic Park."

所以我們來的那“侏羅紀公園“的部分

Michael Crichton really was one of the first people

邁克爾克萊頓是一真正的第一個人

to talk about bringing dinosaurs back to life.

談論使恐龍復活

You all know the story, right.

大家都知道這個故事吧

I mean, I assume everyone here has seen "Jurassic Park."

我設想這裡的所有人都看到“侏羅紀公園“。

If you want to make a dinosaur,

如果你想做一只恐龍，

you go out, you find yourself a piece of petrified tree sap --

你出去，你找自己的一塊石化樹液-

otherwise known as amber --

或稱為琥珀-

that has some blood-sucking insects in it,

裡面有一些吸血昆蟲在裡面

good ones,

那些好的

and you get your insect and you drill into it

你會得到你的蟲子，你挖個洞

and you suck out some DNA,

你吸出一些DNA

because obviously all insects that sucked blood in those days

因為很顯然所有的昆蟲都在那些日子裡吸血

sucked dinosaur DNA out.

吸了恐龍的DNA

And you take your DNA back to the laboratory

然後你把你的DNA帶回實驗室

and you clone it.

你利用基因去複製它

And I guess you inject it into maybe an ostrich egg,

我猜你可能把它注入鴕鳥蛋

or something like that,

或類似的東西

and then you wait,

然後你就等

and, lo and behold, out pops a little baby dinosaur.

你瞧，出彈出一個小恐龍寶寶

And everybody's happy about that.

然後每個人都為這個開心

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And they're happy over and over again.

他們一次又一次的快樂

They keep doing it; they just keep making these things.

他們繼續做下去，他們不停的做這些事

And then, then, then, and then ...

然後，然後，然後，然後 ...

Then the dinosaurs, being social,

然後，恐龍作為社會動物

act out their socialness,

用他們的社會性

and they get together,

他們聚在一起，

and they conspire.

和密謀

And, of course, that's what makes Steven Spielberg's movie --

當然，這是史蒂芬斯皮爾伯格的電影-

conspiring dinosaurs chasing people around.

恐龍追逐人的陰謀

So I assume everybody knows

所以我想大家都知道

that if you actually had a piece of amber and it had an insect in it,

如果你真的有一塊琥珀，裡面有昆蟲，

and you drilled into it,

你鑽了進去

and you got something out of that insect,

你把昆蟲裡拿出一些東西

and you cloned it, and you did it over and over and over again,

你複製它，一遍又一遍又一遍

you'd have a room full of mosquitos.

你就會有一間充滿了蚊子的房間

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

And probably a whole bunch of trees as well.

以及可能還有一大堆的樹

Now if you want dinosaur DNA,

那麼如果你想要恐龍的DNA，

I say go to the dinosaur.

我說直接去恐龍拿

So that's what we've done.

所以我們就那麼做

Back in 1993 when the movie came out,

早在1993年當電影出來後

we actually had a grant from the National Science Foundation

我們實際有一個由美國國家科學基金會所給的一個計畫

to attempt to extract DNA from a dinosaur,

試圖萃取一個恐龍的DNA

and we chose the dinosaur on the left,

我們選擇了恐龍在左側

a Tyrannosaurus rex, which was a very nice specimen.

一條霸王龍，這是一個非常好的標本

And one of my former doctoral students,

我以前有一位博士生

Dr. Mary Schweitzer,

Mary Schweitzer 博士

actually had the background

實際上有背景

to do this sort of thing.

做這類事情

And so she looked into the bone of this T. rex,

因此，研究過著這個霸王龍骨骼

one of the thigh bones,

其中一個大腿骨

and she actually found

而她居然發現

some very interesting structures in there.

一些非常有趣的結構在裡面

They found these red circular-looking objects,

他們發現，這些紅色的圓形的東西

and they looked, for all the world,

他們找了所有的世界

like red blood cells.

像紅血細胞

And they're in

他們在

what appear to be the blood channels

似乎是血液傳輸的管道

that go through the bone.

經過了骨頭

And so she thought, well, what the heck.

於是她想，好吧，什麼東西

So she sampled some material out of it.

於是，她抽取出它的一些物質

Now it wasn't DNA; she didn't find DNA.

現在不是DNA，她沒有找到的DNA

But she did find heme,

但她發現血紅素

which is the biological foundation

這是生物學基礎

of hemoglobin.

血紅蛋白

And that was really cool.

這真的很酷

That was interesting.

這是有趣的

That was -- here we have 65-million-year-old heme.

這是- 在這裡，我們有六千五百萬歲血紅素

Well we tried and tried

我們試了又試

and we couldn't really get anything else out of it.

我們無法真正得到任何東西

So a few years went by,

幾年過去了

and then we started the Hell Creek Project.

然後我們開始了Hell Creek工程

And the Hell Creek Project was this massive undertaking

Hell Creek工程是個的大工程

to get as many dinosaurs as we could possibly find,

我們希望可以發現可以發現的恐龍

and hopefully find some dinosaurs

希望能找到一些恐龍

that had more material in them.

有更多的東西在裡面

And out in eastern Montana

在Montana的東部

there's a lot of space, a lot of badlands,

有很多的空間，很多荒地

and not very many people,

並沒有住很多人

and so you can go out there and find a lot of stuff.

所以你可以去那裡，找到了很多的東西

And we did find a lot of stuff.

而且，我們也發現了很多的東西

We found a lot of Tyrannosaurs,

我們發現了大量的霸王龍

but we found one special Tyrannosaur,

但我們發現一個特殊霸王龍

and we called it B-rex.

我們把它稱為乙霸王龍

And B-rex was found

乙霸王龍是在

under a thousand cubic yards of rock.

好幾萬噸的岩石下發現

It wasn't a very complete T. rex,

這不是一個很完整的霸王龍

and it wasn't a very big T. rex,

不是一個非常大的暴龍

but it was a very special B-rex.

但它是一個非常特殊的乙霸王龍

And I and my colleagues cut into it,

我和我的同事剪切出來

and we were able to determine,

而我們能夠確定

by looking at lines of arrested growth, some lines in it,

通過查看這隻以霸王龍的一些年齡成長資料，

that B-rex had died at the age of 16.

乙霸王龍活了16年

We don't really know how long dinosaurs lived,

我們真的不知道恐龍的壽命

because we haven't found the oldest one yet.

因為我們沒有發現最老的

But this one died at the age of 16.

但這只16歲死了

We gave samples to Mary Schweitzer,

我們把樣品給了Mary Schweitzer

and she was actually able to determine

她竟然能夠確定

that B-rex was a female

乙霸王龍是母的

based on medullary tissue

基於在骨頭裡面的

found on the inside of the bone.

骨隨組織而判定的

Medullary tissue is the calcium build-up,

骨隨組織是鈣積聚

the calcium storage basically,

基本上被儲存的鈣

when an animal is pregnant,

常常發生在動物懷孕

when a bird is pregnant.

或是鳥類懷孕的過程中堆積而成的

So here was the character

因此，正是這個性質

that linked birds and dinosaurs.

把鳥類和恐龍聯繫起來

But Mary went further.

但Mary做了更進一步研究

She took the bone, and she dumped it into acid.

她把那塊骨頭丟進了酸液中

Now we all know that bones are fossilized,

現在大家都知道這些骨頭都是被石化的

and so if you dump it into acid,

所以，如果你放進酸

there shouldn't be anything left.

不應該有任何東西留著

But there was something left.

但是還有一些沒化掉

There were blood vessels left.

有血管

There were flexible, clear blood vessels.

富有彈性，單純的血管

And so here was the first soft tissue from a dinosaur.

這裡是第一個從恐龍軟組織

It was extraordinary.

這是了不起的

But she also found osteocytes,

她也發現骨細胞

which are the cells that laid down the bones.

就是這些細胞構成了骨頭

And try and try, we could not find DNA,

並努力嘗試，我們無法找到DNA

but she did find evidence of proteins.

但她找到證據的蛋白質

But we thought maybe --

但我們想，也許-

well, we thought maybe

也許

that the material was breaking down after it was coming out of the ground.

這些化石被挖出後會分解

We thought maybe it was deteriorating very fast.

也許這是因為蛋白質劣化的速度非常快

And so we built a laboratory

所以，我們建立了一個實驗室

in the back of an 18-wheeler trailer,

在一部18輪拖車的後面

and actually took the laboratory to the field

把實驗室移駕到野外

where we could get better samples.

在那裡我們可以得到更好的樣本

And we did. We got better material.

我們做到了，我們得到了更好的物質

The cells looked better.

這些細胞看起來更好

The vessels looked better.

血管看起來更好

Found the protein collagen.

然後，膠原蛋白

I mean, it was wonderful stuff.

它是美好的東西

But it's not dinosaur DNA.

但它不是恐龍的DNA

So we have discovered

因此，我們已經發現

that dinosaur DNA, and all DNA,

恐龍的DNA，和所有的DNA

just breaks down too fast.

分解了太快

We're just not going to be able

我們只是不能

to do what they did in "Jurassic Park."

和“侏羅紀公園“情節一樣重建出一隻恐龍

We're not going to be able to make a dinosaur

我們不能夠做恐龍

based on a dinosaur.

從恐龍

But birds are dinosaurs.

但是，鳥類是恐龍

Birds are living dinosaurs.

鳥類是恐龍的活化石

We actually classify them

我們實際上它們分類

as dinosaurs.

作為恐龍

We now call them non-avian dinosaurs

我們現在稱之為非禽類恐龍

and avian dinosaurs.

和禽類恐龍

So the non-avian dinosaurs

因此，非禽類恐龍

are the big clunky ones that went extinct.

是那些笨重的，現在滅絕了

Avian dinosaurs are our modern birds.

禽類的恐龍我們的現代的鳥

So we don't have to make a dinosaur

所以，我們不需要做出恐龍

because we already have them.

因為我們已經有了

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I know, you're as bad as the sixth-graders.

我知道，你們和六年級學生一樣糟糕

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

The sixth-graders look at it and they say, "No."

六年級學生看牠時，他們說“不”

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

"You can call it a dinosaur,

”你可以把牠叫做恐龍

but look at the velociraptor: the velociraptor is cool."

但看看迅猛龍，牠們多酷啊。“

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

"The chicken is not."

“雞一點也不酷。“

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So this is our problem,

因此，這是我們的問題

as you can imagine.

你可以想像

The chicken is a dinosaur.

雞是個恐龍

I mean it really is.

真的

You can't argue with it

確實是

because we're the classifiers and we've classified it that way.

因為我們的分類， 我們已經歸類這種方式

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

But the sixth-graders demand it.

但是，六年級學生要求

"Fix the chicken."

“修理牠。“

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So that's what I'm here to tell you about:

所以這就是我在這裡要告訴你的：

how we are going to fix a chicken.

我們將如何改造雞

So we have a number of ways

我們有很多的方法

that we actually can fix the chicken.

讓我們改造一隻雞

Because evolution works,

因為進化

we actually have some evolutionary tools.

我們其實有一些因進化產生的工具

We'll call them biological modification tools.

我們會叫他們"生物修改工具"

We have selection.

我們已經有選擇

And we know selection works.

而且我們知道選擇的工作方式

We started out with a wolf-like creature

我們開始了一個狼一樣的動物

and we ended up with a Maltese.

最後我們得到了馬爾濟斯(狗)。

I mean, that's --

那是

that's definitely genetic modification.

這絕對是基因改造

Or any of the other funny-looking little dogs.

或任何其他有趣的小狗

We also have transgenesis.

我們也有轉基因

Transgenesis is really cool too.

轉基因真的很酷

That's where you take a gene out of one animal and stick it in another one.

這就是你帶出一個基因從動物然後貼在另外一個

That's how people make GloFish.

這就是人們是如何做出螢光魚

You take a glow gene

你從珊瑚或水母

out of a coral or a jellyfish

拿出一個發光基因

and you stick it in a zebrafish,

和你把它加進斑馬魚

and, puff, they glow.

讓他們發光起來

And that's pretty cool.

這很酷

And they obviously make a lot of money off of them.

他們顯然賺了許多錢

And now they're making Glow-rabbits

現在，他們正在做發光兔

and Glow-all-sorts-of-things.

而發光的各種事物

I guess we could make a glow chicken.

我想我們可以做一個發光雞

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But I don't think that'll satisfy the sixth-graders either.

但我不認為會滿足六年級學生

But there's another thing.

還有

There's what we call atavism activation.

還有就是我們所說的隔代遺傳

And atavism activation

隔代遺傳

is basically --

基本上是-

an atavism is an ancestral characteristic.

隔代遺傳的現象是一個祖先的特徵

You heard

你聽說

that occasionally children are born with tails,

偶爾孩子出生時有尾巴

and it's because it's an ancestral characteristic.

它是因為它的一個祖先的特徵

And so there are a number of atavisms

有一些隔代遺傳的現象發生

that can happen.

可以實現

Snakes are occasionally born with legs.

蛇是有腳偶爾出生

And here's an example.

而這裡的一個例子

This is a chicken with teeth.

這是有牙齒的雞

A fellow by the name of Matthew Harris

一位叫Matthew Harris的研究人員

at the University of Wisconsin in Madison

在威斯康星大學麥迪遜

actually figured out a way to stimulate

其實想出了一個辦法來刺激

the gene for teeth,

牙齒的基因

and so was able to actually turn the tooth gene on

因此她能夠活化牙齒基因

and produce teeth in chickens.

並產生有牙的雞

Now that's a good characteristic.

這是一個好的特點

We can save that one.

我們可以留那個

We know we can use that.

我們知道我們可以用它

We can make a chicken with teeth.

我們可以創造一隻有牙齒的雞

That's getting closer.

這離我們的目標越來越近

That's better than a glowing chicken.

比發光的雞還好

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

A friend of mine, a colleague of mine,

我的一個朋友， 一位同事

Dr. Hans Larsson at McGill University,

Hans Larsson 博士在 McGill 大學

is actually looking at atavisms.

其實是看隔代遺傳的現象

And he's looking at them

他在看他們

by looking at the embryo genesis of birds

通過觀察鳥類的胚胎起源

and actually looking at how they develop,

和實際看他們如何發展

and he's interested in how birds actually lost their tail.

他的興趣在如何鳥類失去了他們的尾巴

He's also interested in the transformation

他也對改造有興趣

of the arm, the hand, to the wing.

胳膊，手，在羽翼上

He's looking for those genes as well.

他在尋找這些基因

And I said, "Well, if you can find those,

我告訴他“如果你能找到

I can just reverse them

我可以改造一番

and make what I need to make for the sixth-graders."

做我需要給六年級學生做的”

And so he agreed.

所以他答應了

And so that's what we're looking into.

這就是我們正在研究

If you look at dinosaur hands,

如果你看恐龍的手

a velociraptor

一個迅猛龍

has that cool-looking hand with the claws on it.

長的酷的手與它的爪子

Archaeopteryx, which is a bird, a primitive bird,

始祖鳥，這是一種鳥，一種原始的鳥

still has that very primitive hand.

還有原始的手

But as you can see, the pigeon,

但你可以看到，鴿子

or a chicken or anything else, another bird,

或雞或另外一隻鳥

has kind of a weird-looking hand,

有一個奇怪模樣的手

because the hand is a wing.

因為手是翼

But the cool thing is

但是酷的是

that, if you look in the embryo,

如果你看在胚胎

as the embryo is developing

發展中的胚胎

the hand actually looks

手其實看上去

pretty much like the archaeopteryx hand.

幾乎像始祖鳥手

It has the three fingers, the three digits.

它有三個手指

But a gene turns on that actually fuses those together.

一個基因其實這些融合在一起

And so what we're looking for is that gene.

我們就在找那個基因

We want to stop that gene from turning on,

我們要阻止這種基因從隱性變成顯性

fusing those hands together,

把手融合在一起

so we can get a chicken that hatches out with a three-fingered hand,

所以我們可以得到一個雞孵化出一個三指手

like the archaeopteryx.

像始祖鳥

And the same goes for the tails.

而且尾巴也一樣

Birds have basically

鳥類基本上有

rudimentary tails.

很原始的尾巴

And so we know

所以我們知道

that in embryo,

在胚胎

as the animal is developing,

動物在發展

it actually has a relatively long tail.

它實際上有一個相對長的尾巴

But a gene turns on

但當一個基因開啟

and resorbs the tail, gets rid of it.

就漸漸擺脫尾巴

So that's the other gene we're looking for.

所以這是我們正在尋找其他的基因

We want to stop that tail from resorbing.

我們要制止這種尾巴

So what we're trying to do really

我們正在嘗試

is take our chicken,

拿雞

modify it

改造一番

and make the chickenosaurus.

做一隻“Chickenosaurus" (”雞龍“）

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It's a cooler-looking chicken.

這是一只更酷的雞

But it's just the very basics.

這僅僅是最基礎的

So that really is what we're doing.

這確實是我們正在做的事情

And people always say, "Why do that?

人們一直問 "為什麼做那？

Why make this thing?

為什麼做這個東西？

What good is it?"

它有什麼好？“

Well, that's a good question.

嗯，這是一個很好的問題

Actually, I think it's a great way to teach kids

其實，關於進化生物學

about evolutionary biology

我覺得這是一個不錯的方式來教孩子

and developmental biology

與發育生物學

and all sorts of things.

和所有各式各樣的東西

And quite frankly, I think

很坦率地說，我覺得

if Colonel Sanders

如果肯德基老公公

was to be careful how he worded it,

小心的做廣告

he could actually advertise an extra piece.

他其實可以多賣一塊雞肉

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Anyway --

無論如何

When our dino-chicken hatches,

當我們的恐龍雞孵化

it will be, obviously, the poster child,

它會是， 很明顯， 代表人物

or what you might call a poster chick,

或者 你有可能叫它代表雞

for technology, entertainment and design.

給 科技， 娛樂， 和設計（TED)

Thank you.

謝謝

(Applause)

（掌聲）