How we take back the internet | Edward Snowden

Prevodilac: Mile Živković Lektor: Ivana Korom

Chris Anderson: The rights of citizens,

Kris Anderson: Prava građana,

the future of the Internet.

budućnost interneta.

So I would like to welcome to the TED stage

Voleo bih da poželim dobrodošlicu na TED scenu

the man behind those revelations,

čoveku iza ovih otkrića,

Ed Snowden.

Edu Snoudenu.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Ed is in a remote location somewhere in Russia

Ed je na udaljenoj lokaciji negde u Rusiji

controlling this bot from his laptop,

i kontroliše ovog robota sa svog laptopa,

so he can see what the bot can see.

tako da može da vidi isto što i robot.

Ed, welcome to the TED stage.

Ed, dobrodošao na TED scenu.

What can you see, as a matter of fact?

Zapravo, šta možeš da vidiš?

Edward Snowden: Ha, I can see everyone.

Edvard Snouden: Ha, mogu da vidim svakoga.

This is amazing.

Ovo je neverovatno.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: Ed, some questions for you.

KA: Ed, imam neka pitanja za tebe.

You've been called many things

Dali su ti dosta naziva

in the last few months.

u poslednjih nekoliko meseci.

You've been called a whistleblower, a traitor,

Zvali su te uzbunjivačem, izdajicom,

a hero.

herojem.

What words would you describe yourself with?

Kako bi ti opisao sebe?

ES: You know, everybody who is involved

ES: Znate, svako ko je umešan

with this debate

u ovu raspravu

has been struggling over me and my personality

se mučio oko mene i moje ličnosti

and how to describe me.

i time kako da me opiše.

But when I think about it,

Ali kad razmislim o tome,

this isn't the question that we should be struggling with.

ovo nije pitanje koje treba da nas muči.

Who I am really doesn't matter at all.

Ko sam ja zaista nije bitno.

If I'm the worst person in the world,

Ako sam i najgora osoba na celom svetu,

you can hate me and move on.

možete me mrzeti i nastaviti dalje sa životom.

What really matters here are the issues.

Ovde su zaista bitni problemi.

What really matters here is the kind of government we want,

Bitna je vlada koju želimo,

the kind of Internet we want,

internet kakav želimo,

the kind of relationship between people

veza između ljudi

and societies.

i društava.

And that's what I'm hoping the debate will move towards,

I nadam se da će ova rasprava da krene u tom pravcu

and we've seen that increasing over time.

i videli smo da je ovo u porastu tokom vremena.

If I had to describe myself,

Ako bih morao da opišem sebe,

I wouldn't use words like "hero."

ne bih koristio reči poput "heroj."

I wouldn't use "patriot," and I wouldn't use "traitor."

Ne bih rekao "rodoljub" i ne bih koristio reč "izdajica."

I'd say I'm an American and I'm a citizen,

Rekao bih da sam Amerikanac i građanin,

just like everyone else.

baš kao i svi drugi.

CA: So just to give some context

KA: Samo da damo kontekst

for those who don't know the whole story --

za one koji ne znaju celu priču -

(Applause) —

(Aplauz) -

this time a year ago, you were stationed in Hawaii

prošle godine u ovo vreme, nalazio si se na Havajima

working as a consultant to the NSA.

radeći kao konsultant za NAB (Nacionalnu bezbednosnu agenciju).

As a sysadmin, you had access

Kao sistemski administrator, imao si pristup

to their systems,

njihovim sistemima

and you began revealing certain classified documents

i počeo si da otkrivaš određene poverljive dokumente

to some handpicked journalists

odabranim novinarima

leading the way to June's revelations.

što je dovelo do otkrića u junu.

Now, what propelled you to do this?

Šta te je nateralo na ovo?

ES: You know,

ES: Znate,

when I was sitting in Hawaii,

kada sam sedeo na Havajima,

and the years before, when I was working in the intelligence community,

i godinama pre toga, kada sam radio u obaveštajnoj zajednici,

I saw a lot of things that had disturbed me.

video sam dosta stvari koje su me uznemirile.

We do a lot of good things in the intelligence community,

U ovoj zajednici činimo dosta dobrog,

things that need to be done,

stvari koje moraju da se urade

and things that help everyone.

i koje pomažu svima.

But there are also things that go too far.

Ali ima i stvari koje idu predaleko.

There are things that shouldn't be done,

Stvari koje ne bi trebalo da se rade

and decisions that were being made in secret

i odluka koje su donesene u tajnosti

without the public's awareness,

bez znanja

without the public's consent,

i saglasnosti javnosti

and without even our representatives in government

pri čemu čak i naši predstavnici u vladi

having knowledge of these programs.

nisu znali za ove programe.

When I really came to struggle with these issues,

Kada sam se zaista uhvatio u koštac sa ovim problemima,

I thought to myself,

pomislio sam,

how can I do this in the most responsible way,

kako mogu da uradim ovo na najodgovorniji način,

that maximizes the public benefit

sa najvećom dobrobiti javnosti

while minimizing the risks?

i najmanjim rizikom?

And out of all the solutions that I could come up with,

Od svih rešenja koja sam mogao da smislim,

out of going to Congress,

od odlaska do kongresa,

when there were no laws,

kada nije bilo zakona,

there were no legal protections

nikakve pravne zaštite

for a private employee,

za privatnog radnika

a contractor in intelligence like myself,

pod ugovorom u obaveštajnoj službi poput mene,

there was a risk that I would be buried along with the information

postojao je rizik da budem sahranjen zajedno sa informacijama

and the public would never find out.

i da javnost nikada ne sazna.

But the First Amendment of the United States Constitution

Ali prvi amandman Ustava SAD

guarantees us a free press for a reason,

nam s razlogom garantuje slobodu štampe,

and that's to enable an adversarial press,

da nam pruži kontradiktornu štampu,

to challenge the government,

da izazove vladu

but also to work together with the government,

ali i da radi sa vladom,

to have a dialogue and debate about how we can

da pruži dijalog i raspravu o tome kako možemo

inform the public about matters of vital importance

da obavestimo javnost o stvarima od ključnog značaja,

without putting our national security at risk.

a da se naša nacionalna bezbednost ne izloži riziku.

And by working with journalists,

Radeći sa novinarima,

by giving all of my information

dajući sve moje informacije

back to the American people,

američkom narodu,

rather than trusting myself to make

umesto da verujem sebi da ću doneti

the decisions about publication,

odluke u vezi sa objavljivanjem,

we've had a robust debate

imali smo tešku raspravu

with a deep investment by the government

sa dubokim ulaganjima vlade

that I think has resulted in a benefit for everyone.

i mislim da je rezultat povoljan za sve.

And the risks that have been threatened,

Rizici koji su nastali,

the risks that have been played up

rizici koji su postavljeni

by the government

od strane vlade

have never materialized.

se nisu nikada ostvarili.

We've never seen any evidence

Nikada nismo videli bilo kakav dokaz

of even a single instance of specific harm,

bilo kakvog javljanja neke štete,

and because of that,

i zbog toga mi je prijatno

I'm comfortable with the decisions that I made.

zbog odluka koje sam doneo.

CA: So let me show the audience

KA: Dozvoli da publici pokažem

a couple of examples of what you revealed.

nekoliko primera onoga što si otkrio.

If we could have a slide up, and Ed,

Da li bismo mogli da dobijemo slajd, i Ede,

I don't know whether you can see,

ne znam da li možeš da vidiš,

the slides are here.

slajdovi su ovde.

This is a slide of the PRISM program,

Ovo je slajd programa PRISM,

and maybe you could tell the audience

možda bi mogao da publici kažeš

what that was that was revealed.

šta je to otkriveno.

ES: The best way to understand PRISM,

ES: Najbolji način za razumevanje programa PRISM,

because there's been a little bit of controversy,

jer je bilo pomalo kontraverze,

is to first talk about what PRISM isn't.

je da se priča o tome šta PRISM zapravo nije.

Much of the debate in the U.S. has been about metadata.

U SAD se dosta pričalo o metapodacima.

They've said it's just metadata, it's just metadata,

Rekli su da su to samo metapodaci,

and they're talking about a specific legal authority

a pričaju o posebnoj pravnoj nadležnosti

called Section 215 of the Patriot Act.

koja se zove Odeljak 215 Patriotskog zakona.

That allows sort of a warrantless wiretapping,

On dozvoljava prisluškivanje bez naloga,

mass surveillance of the entire country's

masovno nadgledanje telefonskih zapisa

phone records, things like that --

cele zemlje, stvari poput toga -

who you're talking to,

sa kime pričate,

when you're talking to them,

kada pričate sa njima,

where you traveled.

gde ste putovali.

These are all metadata events.

Ovo su sve slučajevi metapodataka.

PRISM is about content.

Kod PRISM-a se radi o sadržaju.

It's a program through which the government could

To je program kroz koji bi vlada mogla

compel corporate America,

da prisili korporativnu Ameriku,

it could deputize corporate America

da je natera

to do its dirty work for the NSA.

da uradi prljavi posao za NAB.

And even though some of these companies did resist,

Iako su neke od ovih kompanija pružile otpor,

even though some of them --

iako su neke od njih - mislim da je Jahu bio jedan od njih -

I believe Yahoo was one of them —

challenged them in court, they all lost,

suprotstavili su im se na sudu i svi su izgubili,

because it was never tried by an open court.

jer se nikada nije sudilo na otvorenom sudu.

They were only tried by a secret court.

Sudilo im se samo na tajnom sudu.

And something that we've seen,

Nešto što smo videli,

something about the PRISM program that's very concerning to me is,

što me jako brine u vezi sa programom PRISM je to

there's been a talking point in the U.S. government

što se u vladi SAD pričalo o tome

where they've said 15 federal judges

gde su rekli da je 15 saveznih sudija

have reviewed these programs and found them to be lawful,

pregledalo ove programe i reklo da su u skladu sa zakonom.

but what they don't tell you

Ne govore vam to

is those are secret judges

da su to tajne sudije

in a secret court

na tajnom sudu

based on secret interpretations of law

zasnovanom na tajnim tumačenjima zakona

that's considered 34,000 warrant requests

koji je za 33 godine u obzir uzeo

over 33 years,

34 000 zahteva za nalog

and in 33 years only rejected

i za 33 godine odbio

11 government requests.

samo 11 zahteva vlade.

These aren't the people that we want deciding

Ovo nisu ljudi za koje želimo da odlučuju

what the role of corporate America

šta treba da bude uloga korporativne Amerike

in a free and open Internet should be.

na slobodnom i otvorenom internetu.

CA: Now, this slide that we're showing here

KA: Ovaj slajd koji pokazujemo

shows the dates in which

prikazuje datume kada su se

different technology companies, Internet companies,

različite tehnološke i internet kompanije

are alleged to have joined the program,

navodno pridružile programu

and where data collection began from them.

i kada su podaci počeli da se skupljaju kod njih.

Now, they have denied collaborating with the NSA.

Oni su poricali saradnju sa NAB.

How was that data collected by the NSA?

Kako je NAB sakupljala te podatke?

ES: Right. So the NSA's own slides

ES: U redu. Slajdovi same NAB

refer to it as direct access.

kažu da je to direktan pristup.

What that means to an actual NSA analyst,

Za analitičara NAB to znači,

someone like me who was working as an intelligence analyst

za nekoga poput mene ko je radio kao analitičar obaveštajne službe,

targeting, Chinese cyber-hackers,

neko kome su meta kineski hakeri,

things like that, in Hawaii,

stvari poput toga, na Havajima,

is the provenance of that data

znači da je izvor tih podataka

is directly from their servers.

direktno sa njihovih servera.

It doesn't mean

To ne znači

that there's a group of company representatives

da postoji grupa predstavnika kompanija

sitting in a smoky room with the NSA

koji sede sa NAB u zadimljenoj sobi

palling around and making back-room deals

dosađuju se i dogovaraju iza leđa javnosti

about how they're going to give this stuff away.

o tome kako će da poklone ove podatke.

Now each company handles it different ways.

Svaka kompanija ovo rešava na drugačiji način.

Some are responsible.

Neke su odgovorne.

Some are somewhat less responsible.

Neke su malo manje odgovorne.

But the bottom line is, when we talk about

Ali na kraju, kada pričamo

how this information is given,

o tome kako se daju ove informacije,

it's coming from the companies themselves.

one dolaze od samih kompanija.

It's not stolen from the lines.

One se ne kradu.

But there's an important thing to remember here:

Ovde je bitno zapamtiti jednu stvar:

even though companies pushed back,

iako su se kompanije borile,

even though companies demanded,

iako su zahtevale

hey, let's do this through a warrant process,

da se ovo uradi kroz proces naloga,

let's do this

hajde da se ovo uradi

where we actually have some sort of legal review,

tako da postoji neka vrsta pravnog nadgledanja,

some sort of basis for handing over

neka vrsta osnove za predavanje

these users' data,

podataka korisnika,

we saw stories in the Washington Post last year

videli smo priče prošle godine u Vašington postu

that weren't as well reported as the PRISM story

koje nisu bile pokrivene kao priča o PRISM-u,

that said the NSA broke in

gde je bilo reči o tome da je NAB provalila

to the data center communications

u centre komunikacije

between Google to itself

između Gugla i njih

and Yahoo to itself.

i Jahua i njih.

So even these companies that are cooperating

Dakle čak i ove kompanije koje sarađuju

in at least a compelled but hopefully lawful manner

na prinudan ali nadam se makar legalan način

with the NSA,

sa NAB,

the NSA isn't satisfied with that,

NAB nije zadovoljna time

and because of that, we need our companies

i zbog toga je potrebno da naše kompanije

to work very hard

rade veoma naporno

to guarantee that they're going to represent

kako bi garantovale da će zastupati

the interests of the user, and also advocate

interese korisnika i zalagati se

for the rights of the users.

za prava korisnika.

And I think over the last year,

Mislim da smo tokom prošle godine

we've seen the companies that are named

videli nekoliko kompanija, čija su imena na slajdovima PRISM-a

on the PRISM slides

take great strides to do that,

kako ulažu velike napore kako bi to učinile

and I encourage them to continue.

i ohrabrujem ih da nastave sa time.

CA: What more should they do?

KA: Šta bi još mogle da učine?

ES: The biggest thing that an Internet company

ES: Najveća stvar koju jedna internet kompanija

in America can do today, right now,

u Americi danas može da učini

without consulting with lawyers,

bez savetovanja sa advokatima

to protect the rights of users worldwide,

kako bi zaštitila prava korisnika širom sveta

is to enable SSL web encryption

je da omogući SSL veb enkripciju

on every page you visit.

na svakoj stranici koju posetite.

The reason this matters is today,

Ovo je danas bitno zato što

if you go to look at a copy of "1984" on Amazon.com,

ako pogledate primerak knjige "1984" na sajtu Amazon.com,

the NSA can see a record of that,

NAB može da vidi zapis toga,

the Russian intelligence service can see a record of that,

kao i ruska obaveštajna služba,

the Chinese service can see a record of that,

kineska obaveštajna služba,

the French service, the German service,

francuska, nemačka

the services of Andorra.

i obaveštajna služba Andore.

They can all see it because it's unencrypted.

Svi mogu da vide to jer nema enkripcije.

The world's library is Amazon.com,

Amazon.com je svetska biblioteka

but not only do they not support encryption by default,

ali oni ne samo da nemaju enkripciju kao podrazumevanu,

you cannot choose to use encryption

nego ne možete odabrati da koristite enkripciju

when browsing through books.

kada pregledate knjige.

This is something that we need to change,

Ovo moramo da promenimo,

not just for Amazon, I don't mean to single them out,

ne samo za Amazon, ne želim da ih izdvajam,

but they're a great example.

ali su odličan primer.

All companies need to move

Sve kompanije moraju da pređu

to an encrypted browsing habit by default

na šifrovani model pretraživanja kao podrazumevani

for all users who haven't taken any action

za sve korisnike koji nisu preduzeli ništa

or picked any special methods on their own.

ili izabrali neki poseban metod.

That'll increase the privacy and the rights

To će povećati privatnost i prava

that people enjoy worldwide.

koja ljudi uživaju širom sveta.

CA: Ed, come with me to this part of the stage.

KA: Ed, dođi sa mnom na ovaj deo bine.

I want to show you the next slide here. (Applause)

Želim da ti pokažem sledeći slajd. (Aplauz)

This is a program called Boundless Informant.

Ovo je program koji se zove Doušnik bez granica.

What is that?

Šta je to?

ES: So, I've got to give credit to the NSA

ES: Moram da odam priznanje NAB

for using appropriate names on this.

jer koriste odgovarajuće ime za ovo.

This is one of my favorite NSA cryptonyms.

Ovo je jedna od mojih omiljenih skraćenica NAB.

Boundless Informant

Doušnik bez granica

is a program that the NSA hid from Congress.

je program koji je NAB krila od kongresa.

The NSA was previously asked by Congress,

Kongres je prethodno pitao NAB,

was there any ability that they had

da li postoji neka mogućnost da su oni mogli

to even give a rough ballpark estimate

da daju samo grubu procenu

of the amount of American communications

količine komunikacija u Americi

that were being intercepted.

koje se presreću.

They said no. They said, we don't track those stats,

Rekli su ne. Rekli su da ne prate te statistike

and we can't track those stats.

i da ne mogu da ih prate.

We can't tell you how many communications

Ne možemo da vam kažemo koliko komunikacija

we're intercepting around the world,

presrećemo širom sveta

because to tell you that would be

jer kada bismo to mogli da uradimo,

to invade your privacy.

to bi bilo narušavanje vaše privatnosti.

Now, I really appreciate that sentiment from them,

Zaista cenim tu njihovu nameru,

but the reality, when you look at this slide is,

ali zapravo, kada pogledate ovaj slajd,

not only do they have the capability,

ne samo da imaju mogućnost,

the capability already exists.

nego ona već postoji.

It's already in place.

Već se dešava.

The NSA has its own internal data format

NAB ima svoj unutrašnji format podataka

that tracks both ends of a communication,

koji prati oba kraja komunikacije

and if it says,

i ako kaže

this communication came from America,

da je ova komunikacija iz Amerike,

they can tell Congress how many of those communications

mogu da kažu kongresu koliko tih komunikacija

they have today, right now.

imaju danas, u ovom trenutku.

And what Boundless Informant tells us

Doušnik bez granica nam govori

is more communications are being intercepted

da se presreće više komunikacija

in America about Americans

u Americi o Amerikancima

than there are in Russia about Russians.

nego u Rusiji o Rusima.

I'm not sure that's what an intelligence agency

Nisam siguran da bi obaveštajna agencija

should be aiming for.

trebala tome da teži.

CA: Ed, there was a story broken in the Washington Post,

KA: Ed, bila je priča u Vašington postu,

again from your data.

opet od tvojih podataka.

The headline says,

Naslov kaže:

"NSA broke privacy rules

"NAB je prekršila pravila o privatnosti

thousands of times per year."

hiljadama puta godišnje."

Tell us about that.

Reci nam nešto o tome.

ES: We also heard in Congressional testimony last year,

ES: Čuli smo to i u svedočenju pred kongresom prošle godine,

it was an amazing thing for someone like me

bilo je to neverovatno za nekog poput mene

who came from the NSA

ko dolazi iz NAB

and who's seen the actual internal documents,

i ko je video prava dokumenta kod njih,

knows what's in them,

ko zna šta je u njima,

to see officials testifying under oath

da vidim kako zvaničnici svedoče pod zakletvom

that there had been no abuses,

da nije bilo nikakvih povreda,

that there had been no violations of the NSA's rules,

da nije bilo kršenja pravila NAB,

when we knew this story was coming.

kada smo znali da će se ovo desiti.

But what's especially interesting about this,

Ali posebno je zanimljivo to

about the fact that the NSA has violated

što je NAB prekršila

their own rules, their own laws

svoja pravila, svoje zakone,

thousands of times in a single year,

hiljadama puta u jednoj godini,

including one event by itself,

uključujući jedan događaj,

one event out of those 2,776,

jedan od tih 2 776,

that affected more than 3,000 people.

koji je pogodio više od 3 000 ljudi.

In another event, they intercepted

Drugog puta, presreli su

all the calls in Washington, D.C., by accident.

sve pozive u Vašingtonu, slučajno.

What's amazing about this,

Neverovatno je to

this report, that didn't get that much attention,

kod ovog izveštaja, koji nije dobio toliko pažnje,

is the fact that not only were there 2,776 abuses,

činjenica da ne samo da je bilo 2 776 povreda,

the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee,

predsednik komiteta za obaveštajne službe senata,

Dianne Feinstein, had not seen this report

Dajen Fajnstajn, nije videla ovaj izveštaj

until the Washington Post contacted her

dok je Vašington post nije kontaktirao

asking for comment on the report.

tražeći komentar na njega.

And she then requested a copy from the NSA

Ona je onda zatražila primerak od NAB

and received it,

i dobila ga je,

but had never seen this before that.

ali ga nikada nije videla pre toga.

What does that say about the state of oversight

Šta to govori o previdima

in American intelligence

u američkoj obaveštajnoj službi,

when the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee

kada predsednik komiteta za obaveštajne službe senata

has no idea that the rules are being broken

nema pojma da se krše pravila,

thousands of times every year?

na hiljade puta godišnje?

CA: Ed, one response to this whole debate is this:

KA: Ed, jedan odgovor na celu ovu debatu je sledeći:

Why should we care about

zašto da brinemo

all this surveillance, honestly?

o svom ovom nadgledanju, ozbiljno?

I mean, look, if you've done nothing wrong,

Mislim, gledaj, ako nisi uradio ništa pogrešno,

you've got nothing to worry about.

nemaš zašto da brineš.

What's wrong with that point of view?

Šta ne valja sa ovim pogledom na stvari?

ES: Well, so the first thing is,

ES: Prva stvar je sledeće -

you're giving up your rights.

odričete se svojih prava.

You're saying hey, you know,

Govorite ovo - hej, znaš,

I don't think I'm going to need them,

mislim da mi neće trebati

so I'm just going to trust that, you know,

pa ću samo da verujem tome, znaš,

let's get rid of them, it doesn't really matter,

hajde da ih se rešim, nisu zaista bitna,

these guys are going to do the right thing.

ovi ljudi će da urade pravu stvar.

Your rights matter

Vaša prava su bitna

because you never know when you're going to need them.

jer nikada ne znate kada će vam biti potrebna.

Beyond that, it's a part of our cultural identity,

Dalje od toga, to je deo našeg kulturnog identiteta,

not just in America,

ne samo u Americi

but in Western societies

već u zapadnim društvima

and in democratic societies around the world.

i demokratskim društvima širom sveta.

People should be able to pick up the phone

Ljudi treba da mogu da uzmu telefon

and to call their family,

i nazovu svoju porodicu,

people should be able to send a text message

da pošalju poruku

to their loved ones,

svojim voljenim,

people should be able to buy a book online,

da mogu da kupe knjigu preko interneta,

they should be able to travel by train,

da mogu da putuju vozom,

they should be able to buy an airline ticket

da kupe avionsku kartu

without wondering about how these events

a da se ne pitaju kako će ovi događaji

are going to look to an agent of the government,

da izgledaju vladinom agentu,

possibly not even your government

verovatno ne vaše vlade,

years in the future,

godinama od sada,

how they're going to be misinterpreted

kako će se pogrešno tumačiti

and what they're going to think your intentions were.

i šta će misliti da su bile vaše namere.

We have a right to privacy.

Imamo pravo na privatnost.

We require warrants to be based on probable cause

Zahtevamo da nalozi budu zasnovani na najverovatnijem uzroku

or some kind of individualized suspicion

ili nekoj vrsti pojedinačne sumnje

because we recognize that trusting anybody,

jer shvatamo da verovanje bilo kome,

any government authority,

bilo kojoj vlasti unutar vlade,

with the entirety of human communications

poveriti im sve ljudske komunikacije

in secret and without oversight

u tajnosti i bez nadgledanja

is simply too great a temptation to be ignored.

podrazumeva preveliko iskušenje da bi se ignorisalo.

CA: Some people are furious at what you've done.

KA: Neki ljudi su besni zbog onoga što si učinio.

I heard a quote recently from Dick Cheney

Skoro sam čuo citat Dika Čejnija

who said that Julian Assange was a flea bite,

koji je rekao da je Džulijan Asanž bio ujed buve,

Edward Snowden is the lion that bit the head off the dog.

ali da je Edvard Snouden lav koji je psu odgrizao glavu.

He thinks you've committed

On misli da si počinio

one of the worst acts of betrayal

jednu od najgorih izdaja

in American history.

u istoriji Amerike.

What would you say to people who think that?

Šta bi rekao takvim ljudima?

ES: Dick Cheney's really something else.

ES: Dik Čejni je zaista nešto posebno.

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Smeh) (Aplauz)

Thank you. (Laughter)

Hvala vam. (Smeh)

I think it's amazing, because at the time

Mislim da je to neverovatno, jer u vreme

Julian Assange was doing some of his greatest work,

kada je Džulijan Asanž obavljao svoj najbolji posao,

Dick Cheney was saying

Dik Čejni je govorio

he was going to end governments worldwide,

da će on zakopati vlade širom sveta,

the skies were going to ignite

da će se nebesa zapaliti

and the seas were going to boil off,

i da će mora proključati,

and now he's saying it's a flea bite.

a sada kaže da je to ujed buve.

So we should be suspicious about the same sort of

Treba da nam bude sumnjiva ista ta vrsta

overblown claims of damage to national security

prenaduvanih tvrdnji o šteti nacionalnoj bezbednosti

from these kind of officials.

kada to kažu ovakvi zvaničnici.

But let's assume that these people really believe this.

Ali pretpostavimo da ovi ljudi zaista veruju u ovo.

I would argue that they have kind of

Rekao bih da imaju neku vrstu

a narrow conception of national security.

uske zamisli nacionalne bezbednosti.

The prerogatives of people like Dick Cheney

Povlastice ljudi poput Dika Čejnija

do not keep the nation safe.

ne čine naciju bezbednom.

The public interest is not always the same

Javni interes nije uvek isti

as the national interest.

kao i nacionalni interes.

Going to war with people who are not our enemy

Rat sa ljudima koji nisu naši neprijatelji

in places that are not a threat

na mestima koja nisu pretnja

doesn't make us safe,

nas ne čini bezbednim,

and that applies whether it's in Iraq

a to je istina za Irak

or on the Internet.

ili internet.

The Internet is not the enemy.

Internet nije neprijatelj.

Our economy is not the enemy.

Naša ekonomija nije neprijatelj.

American businesses, Chinese businesses,

Američke, kineske kompanije

and any other company out there

ili bilo koje kompanije

is a part of our society.

deo su našeg društva.

It's a part of our interconnected world.

To je deo međusobno povezanog sveta.

There are ties of fraternity that bond us together,

Postoje bratske veze između nas

and if we destroy these bonds

i ako ih uništimo

by undermining the standards, the security,

podrivajući naše standarde, bezbednost,

the manner of behavior,

način ponašanja,

that nations and citizens all around the world

za koje od nas nacije i građani širom sveta

expect us to abide by.

očekuju da ih se pridržavamo.

CA: But it's alleged that you've stolen

KA: Ali ti si navodno ukrao

1.7 million documents.

1,7 miliona dokumenata.

It seems only a few hundred of them

Čini se kao da je samo njih nekoliko stotina

have been shared with journalists so far.

do sada podeljeno sa novinarima.

Are there more revelations to come?

Da li će biti još otkrića?

ES: There are absolutely more revelations to come.

ES: Apsolutno će biti još otkrića.

I don't think there's any question

Mislim da se podrazumeva

that some of the most important reporting

da će neki od najbitnijih izveštaja

to be done is yet to come.

tek biti objavljeni.

CA: Come here, because I want to ask you

KA: Dođi ovde, jer želim da te pitam

about this particular revelation.

za ovo posebno otkriće.

Come and take a look at this.

Dođi i pogledaj ovo.

I mean, this is a story which I think for a lot of the techies in this room

Mislim da je ovo priča koja za puno ljubitelja tehnologije ovde

is the single most shocking thing

predstavlja najšokantniju stvar

that they have heard in the last few months.

koju su čuli u proteklih nekoliko meseci.

It's about a program called "Bullrun."

To je program koji se naziva "Bik u trku."

Can you explain what that is?

Možeš li nam objasniti šta je to?

ES: So Bullrun, and this is again

ES: "Bik u trku", ovde opet moramo

where we've got to thank the NSA for their candor,

da zahvalimo NAB na njihovoj iskrenosti,

this is a program named after a Civil War battle.

ovo je program nazvan po bici iz Građanskog rata.

The British counterpart is called Edgehill,

Britanski parnjak se naziva Edžhil

which is a U.K. civil war battle.

što je bitka iz njihovog građanskog rata.

And the reason that I believe they're named this way

Mislim da imaju ove nazive

is because they target our own infrastructure.

jer ciljaju na naše infrastrukture.

They're programs through which the NSA

To su programi kroz koje NAB

intentionally misleads corporate partners.

namerno navodi korporativne partnere na pogrešan trag.

They tell corporate partners that these

Govore im da su ovo

are safe standards.

bezbedni standardi.

They say hey, we need to work with you

Kažu da moraju da rade sa vama

to secure your systems,

da bi obezbedili vaše sisteme,

but in reality, they're giving bad advice

ali zapravo daju loše savete

to these companies that makes them

ovim kompanijama, što čini

degrade the security of their services.

da one smanjuju bezbednost svojih servera.

They're building in backdoors that not only

Prave zadnja vrata koja ne samo da

the NSA can exploit,

NAB može da zloupotrebi,

but anyone else who has time and money

nego i bilo ko drugi ko ima vreme i novac

to research and find it

da istraži i pronađe ih

can then use to let themselves in

i onda mogu sami da uđu

to the world's communications.

u svetske komunikacije.

And this is really dangerous,

Ovo je veoma opasno,

because if we lose a single standard,

jer ako izgubimo samo jedan standard,

if we lose the trust of something like SSL,

ako izgubimo poverenje nečeg poput SSL,

which was specifically targeted

koji je posebno napadnut

by the Bullrun program,

u programu "Bik u trku",

we will live a less safe world overall.

generalno ćemo imati manje bezbedan svet.

We won't be able to access our banks

Nećemo moći da pristupimo svojim bankama

and we won't be able to access commerce

i poslovanju

without worrying about people monitoring those communications

bez brige da neko ne nadgleda te komunikacije

or subverting them for their own ends.

ili ih obara zbog lične koristi.

CA: And do those same decisions also potentially

KA: I da li te iste odluke možda

open America up to cyberattacks

otvaraju Ameriku ka sajber-napadima

from other sources?

iz drugih izvora?

ES: Absolutely.

ES: Apsolutno.

One of the problems,

Jedan od problema,

one of the dangerous legacies

deo opasnog nasleđa

that we've seen in the post-9/11 era,

onog što smo videli u dobu posle 11 septembra

is that the NSA has traditionally worn two hats.

je to da je NAB tradicionalno imala dve uloge.

They've been in charge of offensive operations,

Bili su zaduženi za ofanzivne operacije,

that is hacking,

hakovanje,

but they've also been in charge of defensive operations,

ali i za defanzivne operacije,

and traditionally they've always prioritized

i tradicionalno su uvek prednost davali

defense over offense

odbrani ispred napada

based on the principle

na osnovu principa

that American secrets are simply worth more.

da su američke tajne jednostavno vrednije.

If we hack a Chinese business

Ako hakujemo kinesku firmu

and steal their secrets,

i ukrademo njihove tajne,

if we hack a government office in Berlin

ako hakujemo vladinu kancelariju u Berlinu

and steal their secrets,

i ukrademo njihove tajne,

that has less value to the American people

to je manje vredno američkom narodu

than making sure that the Chinese

nego da se postaraju da Kinezi

can't get access to our secrets.

ne mogu da pristupe našim tajnama.

So by reducing the security of our communications,

Smanjivanjem bezbednosti naših komunikacija

they're not only putting the world at risk,

oni ne samo da izlažu svet riziku,

they're putting America at risk in a fundamental way,

nego i Ameriku i to na ključan način,

because intellectual property is the basis,

jer je osnova svega intelektualna svojina,

the foundation of our economy,

osnova naše ekonomije,

and if we put that at risk through weak security,

i ako to izložimo riziku kroz loše obezbeđenje,

we're going to be paying for it for years.

godinama ćemo plaćati zbog toga.

CA: But they've made a calculation

KA: Ali proračunali su

that it was worth doing this

da je ovo vredno raditi

as part of America's defense against terrorism.

kao deo američke odbrane od terorizma.

Surely that makes it a price worth paying.

To je sigurno cena koju vredi platiti.

ES: Well, when you look at the results

ES: Kada pogledate rezultate

of these programs in stopping terrorism,

ovih programa u zaustavljanju terorizma,

you will see that that's unfounded,

videćete da je ovo bez osnova,

and you don't have to take my word for it,

i ne morate da mi verujete,

because we've had the first open court,

jer je prvi otvoreni sud,

the first federal court that's reviewed this,

prvi savezni sud koji je ovo pregledao,

outside the secrecy arrangement,

van tajnog aranžmana,

called these programs Orwellian

nazvao ove programe orvelovskim

and likely unconstitutional.

i verovatno neustavnim.

Congress, who has access

Kongres, koji ima pristup

to be briefed on these things,

brifinzima o ovim stvarima,

and now has the desire to be,

i sada ima želju da ima pristup,

has produced bills to reform it,

i doneli su zakone za reforme,

and two independent White House panels

i dva nezavisna tela Bele kuće

who reviewed all of the classified evidence

koja su pogledala sve poverljive dokaze

said these programs have never stopped

izjavila su da ovi programi nikada nisu zaustavili

a single terrorist attack

nijedan teroristički napad

that was imminent in the United States.

koji je bio neminovan u SAD.

So is it really terrorism that we're stopping?

Da li zaista onda zaustavljamo terorizam?

Do these programs have any value at all?

Da li ovi programi imaju ikakvu vrednost?

I say no, and all three branches

Kažem da nemaju, i sve tri grane

of the American government say no as well.

američke vlade se slažu.

CA: I mean, do you think there's a deeper motivation

KA: Misliš li da za njih postoji dublja motivacija

for them than the war against terrorism?

pored rata protiv terorizma?

ES: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, say again?

ES: Izvini, nisam te čuo, možeš li da ponoviš?

CA: Sorry. Do you think there's a deeper motivation

KA: Izvini. Da li misliš da za njih postoji dublja motivacija

for them other than the war against terrorism?

osim rata protiv terorizma?

ES: Yeah. The bottom line is that terrorism

ES: Da. Poenta je u tome da je terorizam

has always been what we in the intelligence world

oduvek bio ono što mi u obaveštajnom svetu nazivamo

would call a cover for action.

pokrićem za akciju.

Terrorism is something that provokes

Terorizam je nešto što izaziva

an emotional response that allows people

emotivnu reakciju koja dozvoljava ljudima

to rationalize authorizing powers and programs

da racionalizuju davanje moći ljudima i programima

that they wouldn't give otherwise.

koju inače ne bi dali.

The Bullrun and Edgehill-type programs,

Kod programa poput "Bika u trku" i Edžhila,

the NSA asked for these authorities

NAB je tražila ova ovlašćenja

back in the 1990s.

'90-ih godina prošlog veka.

They asked the FBI to go to Congress and make the case.

Pitali su FBI da ode u kongres i izloži slučaj.

The FBI went to Congress and did make the case.

FBI je otišao u kongres i uradio upravo to.

But Congress and the American people said no.

Ali kongres i narod Amerike su rekli ne.

They said, it's not worth the risk to our economy.

Rekli su da nije vredno rizika po ekonomiju.

They said it's worth too much damage

Rekli su da postoji previše štete

to our society to justify the gains.

našem društvu da bi se opravdao cilj.

But what we saw is, in the post-9/11 era,

Ali u dobu posle 11. septembra,

they used secrecy and they used the justification of terrorism

koristili su tajnost i pravdali se terorizmom

to start these programs in secret

da bi započeli ove programe u tajnosti

without asking Congress,

bez pitanja kongresa,

without asking the American people,

bez pitanja američkog naroda,

and it's that kind of government behind closed doors

i takva vrsta vlade iza zatvorenih vrata

that we need to guard ourselves against,

je ono od čega treba da se štitimo,

because it makes us less safe,

jer nas to čini ranjivijim,

and it offers no value.

a ne pruža ništa.

CA: Okay, come with me here for a sec,

KA: U redu, dođi sa mnom na trenutak,

because I've got a more personal question for you.

jer moram da te pitam nešto malo ličnije.

Speaking of terror,

Kad već pričamo o strahu,

most people would find the situation you're in right now

većina bi za tvoju situaciju u Rusiji

in Russia pretty terrifying.

rekla da je prilično zaštrašujuća.

You obviously heard what happened,

Očigledno si čuo šta se desilo,

what the treatment that Bradley Manning got,

kako su se ophodili prema Bredliju Meningu,

Chelsea Manning as now is,

koji je sada Čelsi Mening,

and there was a story in Buzzfeed saying that

i bila je priča na Bazfidu

there are people in the intelligence community

o tome kako ima ljudi u obaveštajnoj zajednici

who want you dead.

koji žele da si mrtav.

How are you coping with this?

Kako se nosiš sa ovim?

How are you coping with the fear?

Kako se nosiš sa strahom?

ES: It's no mystery

ES: Nije tajna

that there are governments out there that want to see me dead.

da postoje vlade koje žele moju smrt.

I've made clear again and again and again

Pojasnio sam više puta

that I go to sleep every morning

da svako jutro idem na spavanje

thinking about what I can do for the American people.

misleći o tome šta mogu da uradim za američki narod.

I don't want to harm my government.

Ne želim da naudim svojoj vladi.

I want to help my government,

Želim da joj pomognem,

but the fact that they are willing to

ali činjenica da su voljni

completely ignore due process,

da potpuno ignorišu obavezne procese,

they're willing to declare guilt

da proglase krivicu

without ever seeing a trial,

bez ikakvog suđenja,

these are things that we need to work against

ovo su stvari protiv kojih moramo da radimo

as a society, and say hey, this is not appropriate.

kao društvo i kažemo da ovo nije u redu.

We shouldn't be threatening dissidents.

Ne treba da pretimo disidentima.

We shouldn't be criminalizing journalism.

Ne treba da od novinarstva pravimo kriminal.

And whatever part I can do to see that end,

Šta god mogu da uradim u tu svrhu,

I'm happy to do despite the risks.

rado ću uraditi uprkos rizicima.

CA: So I'd actually like to get some feedback

KA: Želeo da dobijem povratne informacije od publike ovde,

from the audience here,

because I know there's widely differing reactions

zato što znam da postoje veoma različite reakcije

to Edward Snowden.

na Edvarda Snoudena.

Suppose you had the following two choices, right?

Recimo da imate sledeća dva izbora.

You could view what he did

Možete ono što je on uradio da vidite

as fundamentally a reckless act

kao izuzetno bezobziran čin

that has endangered America

koji je ugrozio Ameriku

or you could view it as fundamentally a heroic act

ili kao izuzetno herojski čin

that will work towards America and the world's

koji će unaprediti američko i svetsko

long-term good?

dugotrajno dobrostanje?

Those are the two choices I'll give you.

Dajem vam ta dva izbora.

I'm curious to see who's willing to vote with

Zanima me ko će glasati

the first of those,

za prvi izbor,

that this was a reckless act?

da je ovo bezobziran čin?

There are some hands going up.

Ima nekoliko ruka u vazduhu.

Some hands going up.

Neke ruke.

It's hard to put your hand up

Teško je dići ruku

when the man is standing right here,

kad čovek stoji ovde,

but I see them.

ali vidim ruke.

ES: I can see you. (Laughter)

ES: Vidim vas. (Smeh)

CA: And who goes with the second choice,

KA: A ko bira drugu opciju,

the fundamentally heroic act?

da je ovo istinski herojski čin?

(Applause) (Cheers)

(Aplauz) (Klicanje)

And I think it's true to say that there are a lot of people

Mislim da je istina da postoji dosta ljudi

who didn't show a hand and I think

koji nisu digli ruku i da

are still thinking this through,

još uvek misle o ovome,

because it seems to me that the debate around you

jer mi se čini da se rasprava oko tebe

doesn't split along traditional political lines.

ne tiče tradicionalnih političkih pogleda.

It's not left or right, it's not really about

Nije levo ili desno, ne radi se o tome

pro-government, libertarian, or not just that.

da li se zalažete za vladu, da li ste liberal, ne samo to.

Part of it is almost a generational issue.

Deo svega toga je skoro pitanje generacije.

You're part of a generation that grew up

Deo si generacije koja je odrasla

with the Internet, and it seems as if

sa internetom i čini se kao da

you become offended at almost a visceral level

si postao uvređen na skoro ključnom nivou

when you see something done

kada vidiš da se nešto radi

that you think will harm the Internet.

za šta misliš da će naškoditi internetu.

Is there some truth to that?

Ima li tu istine?

ES: It is. I think it's very true.

ES: Ima. Mislim da je to veoma istinito.

This is not a left or right issue.

Ovo nije pitanje levice ili desnice.

Our basic freedoms, and when I say our,

Naše osnovne slobode, a kada kažem naše,

I don't just mean Americans,

ne mislim samo na Amerikance,

I mean people around the world,

mislim na ljude širom sveta,

it's not a partisan issue.

to nije pitanje sledbeništva.

These are things that all people believe,

Ovo su stvari u koje veruju svi,

and it's up to all of us to protect them,

i na nama je da ih štitimo,

and to people who have seen and enjoyed

i ljudima koji su videli slobodan i otvoren Internet

a free and open Internet,

i uživali u njemu,

it's up to us to preserve that liberty

na nama je da očuvamo tu slobodu

for the next generation to enjoy,

kako bi u njoj uživala sledeća generacija.

and if we don't change things,

Ako ne promenimo stvari,

if we don't stand up to make the changes

ako se ne suprotstavimo i napravimo promene

we need to do to keep the Internet safe,

koje su potrebne da internet ostane bezbedan,

not just for us but for everyone,

ne samo za nas već za svakoga,

we're going to lose that,

izgubićemo to

and that would be a tremendous loss,

i to bi bio ogroman gubitak,

not just for us, but for the world.

ne samo za nas nego i za svet.

CA: Well, I have heard similar language recently

KA: Skoro sam čuo slične reči

from the founder of the world wide web,

od osnivača svetske mreže,

who I actually think is with us, Sir Tim Berners-Lee.

koji je ovde sa nama kako mi se čini, ser Tim Berners-Li.

Tim, actually, would you like to come up and say,

Tim, da li bi hteo da dođeš do bine i kažeš nešto,

do we have a microphone for Tim?

imamo li mikrofon za Tima?

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Tim, good to see you. Come up there.

Tim, sjajno je videti te. Dođi ovde.

Which camp are you in, by the way,

Usput, na kojoj si ti strani,

traitor, hero? I have a theory on this, but --

izdajica ili heroj? Imam teoriju o ovome, ali -

Tim Berners-Lee: I've given much longer

Tim Berners-Li: Davao sam puno duže

answers to that question, but hero,

odgovore na to pitanje, ali heroj,

if I have to make the choice between the two.

ako moram da biram između ta dva.

CA: And Ed, I think you've read

KA: Ed, mislim da si čitao

the proposal that Sir Tim has talked about

predlog o kom je ser Tim pričao

about a new Magna Carta to take back the Internet.

o novoj Povelji slobode kako bi se vratio internet.

Is that something that makes sense?

Da li to ima smisla?

ES: Absolutely. I mean, my generation, I grew up

ES: Apsolutno. Moja generacija je odrasla

not just thinking about the Internet,

ne samo misleći o internetu,

but I grew up in the Internet,

odrasli smo u internetu,

and although I never expected to have the chance

i iako nikada nisam očekivao da imam priliku

to defend it in such a direct and practical manner

da ga branim na tako direktan i praktičan način

and to embody it in this unusual,

i da ga otelotvorim u ovom neobičnom

almost avatar manner,

načinu poput avatara,

I think there's something poetic about the fact that

mislim da ima nečeg pesničkog u tome što je

one of the sons of the Internet

jedan od sinova interneta

has actually become close to the Internet

zapravo postao blizak internetu

as a result of their political expression.

što je posledica političkog izražaja.

And I believe that a Magna Carta for the Internet

Mislim da je Velika povelja interneta

is exactly what we need.

baš ono što nam treba.

We need to encode our values

Moramo da zapišemo svoje vrednosti

not just in writing but in the structure of the Internet,

ne samo u rečima nego strukturi interneta,

and it's something that I hope,

i nadam se,

I invite everyone in the audience,

pozivam sve u publici,

not just here in Vancouver but around the world,

ne samo ovde u Vankuveru već širom sveta,

to join and participate in.

da se uključe i učestvuju.

CA: Do you have a question for Ed?

KA: Da li imaš pitanje za Eda?

TBL: Well, two questions,

TBL: Zapravo, dva pitanja,

a general question —

opšte pitanje -

CA: Ed, can you still hear us?

KA: Ede, možeš li još da nas čuješ?

ES: Yes, I can hear you. CA: Oh, he's back.

ES: Da, mogu da vas čujem. KA: Oh, vratio se.

TBL: The wiretap on your line

TBL: Linija preko koje te prisluškuju

got a little interfered with for a moment.

je malo zasmetala na sekund.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

ES: It's a little bit of an NSA problem.

ES: To je pomalo problem NAB.

TBL: So, from the 25 years,

TBL: Od 25 godina,

stepping back and thinking,

kada se udaljiš i razmisliš,

what would you think would be

šta misliš da je ono najbolje

the best that we could achieve

što bismo mogli da postignemo

from all the discussions that we have

iz svih diskusija koje smo vodili

about the web we want?

o internetu kakav želimo?

ES: When we think about

ES: Kada razmislimo

in terms of how far we can go,

o tome koliko daleko možemo da odemo,

I think that's a question that's really only limited

mislim da je to pitanje koje je ograničeno samo

by what we're willing to put into it.

time šta smo spremni da uložimo u to.

I think the Internet that we've enjoyed in the past

Mislim da je internet u kojem smo uživali do sada

has been exactly what we as not just a nation

upravo ono što nam je potrebno,

but as a people around the world need,

ne samo kao naciji nego kao ljudima širom sveta,

and by cooperating, by engaging not just

i saradnjom, uključivanjem ne samo

the technical parts of society,

tehničkog dela društva,

but as you said, the users,

nego i korisnika, kao što ti kažeš,

the people around the world who contribute

ljudi širom sveta koji doprinose

through the Internet, through social media,

kroz internet, društvene medije,

who just check the weather,

koji samo proveravaju prognozu,

who rely on it every day as a part of their life,

koji se oslanjaju na njega kao deo svog života,

to champion that.

da predvode to.

We'll get not just the Internet we've had,

Dobićemo ne samo internet koji smo imali,

but a better Internet, a better now,

već i bolji internet, bolju sadašnjost,

something that we can use to build a future

nešto što možemo koristiti da napravimo budućnost

that'll be better not just than what we hoped for

koja će biti bolja ne samo od onoga što smo se nadali,

but anything that we could have imagined.

već od svega što smo mogli da zamislimo.

CA: It's 30 years ago that TED was founded, 1984.

KA: TED je osnovan pre 30 godina, 1984.

A lot of the conversation since then has been

Dosta se od tada pričalo

along the lines that

o tome

actually George Orwell got it wrong.

da je Džordž Orvel pogrešio.

It's not Big Brother watching us.

Ne posmatra nas Veliki Brat.

We, through the power of the web,

Mi, kroz moć interneta

and transparency, are now watching Big Brother.

i transparentnosti, sada posmatramo Velikog Brata.

Your revelations kind of drove a stake

Tvoja otkrića su na neki način zabila kolac

through the heart of that rather optimistic view,

kroz srce ovog prilično optimističnog pogleda,

but you still believe there's a way of doing something

ali ti još veruješ da postoji način da se nešto

about that.

uradi povodom toga.

And you do too.

Kao i ti.

ES: Right, so there is an argument to be made

ES: Postoji argument koji mora da se spomene,

that the powers of Big Brother have increased enormously.

moći Velikog Brata su se neverovatno povećale.

There was a recent legal article at Yale

Skoro je bio pravni članak na Jejlu

that established something called the Bankston-Soltani Principle,

koji je utvrdio nešto što se zove Principom Benkston-Soltani,

which is that our expectation of privacy is violated

što podrazumeva da su naša očekivanja o privatnosti prekršena

when the capabilities of government surveillance

kada mogućnosti vladinog nadgledanja

have become cheaper by an order of magnitude,

postanu znatno jeftinije

and each time that occurs, we need to revisit

i svakog puta kada se to desi, moramo ponovo da pregledamo

and rebalance our privacy rights.

i rebalansiramo naša prava koja se tiču privatnosti.

Now, that hasn't happened since

Ovo se nije desilo od trenutka

the government's surveillance powers

kada su se vladine moći nadgledanja

have increased by several orders of magnitude,

uvećale nekoliko puta,

and that's why we're in the problem that we're in today,

zbog čega i jesmo danas u ovom problemu,

but there is still hope,

ali još postoji nada,

because the power of individuals

jer je moć pojedinaca

have also been increased by technology.

uložena i u tehnologiju.

I am living proof

Ja sam živi dokaz

that an individual can go head to head

da pojedinac može da ide prsa u prsa

against the most powerful adversaries

protiv najmoćnijih protivnika

and the most powerful intelligence agencies

i najmoćnijih obaveštajnih službi

around the world and win,

širom sveta i pobedi,

and I think that's something

i mislim da je to nešto

that we need to take hope from,

iz čega treba da vučemo nadu,

and we need to build on

i na čemu treba da gradimo

to make it accessible not just to technical experts

da bi to postalo dostupno ne samo tehničkim stručnjacima

but to ordinary citizens around the world.

već običnim građanima širom sveta.

Journalism is not a crime,

Novinarstvo nije zločin,

communication is not a crime,

komunikacija nije zločin

and we should not be monitored in our everyday activities.

i ne treba da nas posmatraju u našim svakodnevnim aktivnostima.

CA: I'm not quite sure how you shake the hand of a bot,

KA: Nisam sasvim siguran kako se rukovati s robotom,

but I imagine it's, this is the hand right here. TBL: That'll come very soon.

ali zamišljam ruku baš ovde. TBL: To će doći ubrzo.

ES: Nice to meet you,

ES: Drago mi je što sam te upoznao,

and I hope my beam looks as nice

i nadam se da moja projekcija izgleda jednako lepo

as my view of you guys does.

kao pogled na vas tamo.

CA: Thank you, Tim.

KA: Hvala ti Time.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

I mean, The New York Times recently called for an amnesty for you.

Njujork tajms je skoro pozvao na to da ti se da amnestija.

Would you welcome the chance to come back to America?

Da li bi raširenih ruku dočekao priliku da se vratiš u Ameriku?

ES: Absolutely. There's really no question,

ES: Apsolutno. Tu nema rasprave,

the principles that have been the foundation

principi koji su bili osnova

of this project

ovog projekta

have been the public interest

su javni interes

and the principles that underly

i principi koji su osnova

the journalistic establishment in the United States

novinarskog temelja u SAD

and around the world,

i širom sveta,

and I think if the press is now saying,

mislim da novine sada govore

we support this,

da podržavaju ovo,

this is something that needed to happen,

da je ovo moralo da se desi,

that's a powerful argument, but it's not the final argument,

to je jak argument, ali ne i poslednji.

and I think that's something that public should decide.

Mislim da o tome treba da odluči javnost.

But at the same time,

Ali u isto vreme,

the government has hinted that they want

vlada je dala naznake da želi

some kind of deal,

neku vrstu nagodbe,

that they want me to compromise

da žele da izložim

the journalists with which I've been working,

novinare sa kojima sam radio,

to come back,

da se vratim,

and I want to make it very clear

i želim da bude veoma jasno

that I did not do this to be safe.

da ovo nisam uradio radi bezbednosti.

I did this to do what was right,

Uradio sam ovo jer je to ispravno

and I'm not going to stop my work

i neću stati sa svojim radom

in the public interest

koji je u javnom interesu

just to benefit myself.

zbog lične koristi.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

CA: In the meantime,

KA: U međuvremenu,

courtesy of the Internet and this technology,

zahvaljujući internetu i ovoj tehnologiji,

you're here, back in North America,

ti si ovde, nazad u Severnoj Americi,

not quite the U.S., Canada, in this form.

u ovom obliku, ne baš u SAD već u Kanadi.

I'm curious, how does that feel?

Zanima me, kakav je osećaj?

ES: Canada is different than what I expected.

ES: Kanada je drugačija nego što sam je zamišljao.

It's a lot warmer.

Puno je toplija.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: At TED, the mission is "ideas worth spreading."

KA: U TEDu, misija su ideje vredne širenja.

If you could encapsulate it in a single idea,

Kada bi mogao da uhvatiš jednu ideju,

what is your idea worth spreading

koja je tvoja ideja vredna širenja

right now at this moment?

u ovom trenutku?

ES: I would say the last year has been a reminder

ES: Rekao bih da je protekla godina bila podsetnik

that democracy may die behind closed doors,

da demokratija može da izumre iza zatvorenih vrata,

but we as individuals are born

ali mi kao pojedinci smo rođeni

behind those same closed doors,

iza istih tih vrata,

and we don't have to give up

i ne moramo da odustanemo

our privacy to have good government.

od svoje privatnosti da bismo imali dobru vladu.

We don't have to give up our liberty

Ne moramo da odustanemo od svoje slobode

to have security.

radi bezbednosti.

And I think by working together

Mislim da zajedničkim radom

we can have both open government

možemo imati i otvorenu vladu

and private lives,

i privatne živote,

and I look forward to working with everyone

i radujem se radu sa svakim

around the world to see that happen.

širom sveta kako bismo učinili da se to desi.

Thank you very much.

Mnogo vam hvala.

CA: Ed, thank you.

KA: Hvala ti, Ede.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)