How American and Chinese values shaped the coronavirus response | Huang Hung

Transcriber: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Camille Martínez

Prevodilac: Visnja Bojovic Lektor: Ivana Korom

Helen Walters: Huang, it's so good to see you.

Helen Volters: Huang, baš je lepo videti Vas.

Thank you for joining us. How's your 2020 been?

Hvala što ste nam se pridružili. Kako provodite 2020?

Huang Hung: My 2020 started totally normal.

Huang Hung: 2020. je za mene počela potpuno normalno.

In January, I went to Paris,

U januaru sam otišla u Pariz,

did my interview for the fashion week there,

tamo obavila svoj intervju za nedelju mode,

came back to Beijing on January 22nd,

vratila se u Peking 22. januara,

and finding things a little bit tense

naišavši na pomalo napete okolnosti,

because there were a lot of rumors.

pošto je bilo dosta glasina.

Having lived through SARS,

Budući da sam preživela SARS,

I wasn't that concerned.

nisam bila toliko zabrinuta.

And on the 23rd, I had a friend of mine from New York come to my house

I 23. sam imala posetu prijatelja koji je došao kod mene iz Njujorka,

who had a flu,

i koji je imao grip,

and we had dinner together,

večerali smo zajedno,

and another friend who came,

i još jednog prijatelja koji je došao,

who left the next day for Australia for vacation on an airplane.

koji je sledećeg dana otišao avionom u Australiju na odmor.

So we were not taking this terribly seriously

Tako da nismo shvatali stvari preterano ozbiljno

until there was a lockdown.

dok nije došlo do izolacije.

HW: And we've seen that echo around the world.

HV: Videli smo odjek toga širom sveta.

I think still some people find it hard to understand the magnitude

Mislim da neki ljudi imaju poteškoća sa razumevanjem jačine

of some of the measures that China took.

pojedinih mera koje je Kina uvela.

I mean -- what else are we missing about China's response in all of this?

Mislim, šta još propuštamo kada je u pitanju odgovor Kine na sve ovo?

HH: You know, historically,

HH: Znate, istorijski gledano,

we're just two very different countries

mi smo jednostavno dve veoma različite zemlje,

in terms of culture and history.

po pitanju kulture i istorije.

I mean, these are two completely different human experiences for its people.

Mislim, u pitanju su dva potpuno različita iskustva za te narode.

So, for China,

Tako da, kada se radi o Kini,

when the lockdown happens,

kada se dogodi obavezna izolacija,

people are OK.

ljudi su OK.

People are OK with it,

Ljudi su OK sa tim,

because they think that's what a good parent should do.

zato što misle da je to ono što dobar roditelj treba da uradi.

You know, if a kid gets sick,

Znate, ako se dete razboli,

you put him in the other room,

smestite ga u drugu sobu,

and you lock him up and make sure that the other kids don't get sick.

izolujete ga i pobrinete se da se druga deca ne razbole.

And they expect that out of the government.

To je ono što ljudi očekuju od vlade.

But when it is outside of China, from America, it becomes a huge issue

Međutim, kada se dogodi van Kine, u Americi, to postaje veliko pitanje

of the right political thing to do

toga šta bi bilo ispravno učiniti,

and whether it's infringing on personal freedom.

i da li se radi o kršenju lične slobode.

So the issues that you have to deal with in a democratic society

Tako da, problemi sa kojima morate da se nosite u demokratskom društvu

are issues that one does not have to deal with in China.

nisu problemi sa kojima ljudi moraju da se nose u Kini.

I have to say that there's a word in Chinese

Moram da kažem da u kineskom jeziku postoji reč

that doesn't exist in any other language,

koja ne postoji ni u jednom drugom jeziku,

and the word is called "guāi."

a to je reč "guāi".

It is what you call a kid

Tako zovete dete

who listens to his or her parents.

koje sluša svoje roditelje.

So I think, as a people, we are very "guāi."

Tako da ja mislim da smo mi, kao narod, veoma "guāi".

We have this sort of authoritarian figure

Imamo tu neku vrstu autoritativne figure

that Chinese always look up to,

na koju se Kinezi uvek ugledaju,

and they do expect the government to actually take the actions,

i oni zapravo očekuju od vlade da preduzme mere,

and they will deal with it.

i oni će ih prihvatiti.

However much suffering there is,

Bez obzira na količinu patnje,

they feel that, OK, if big brother says that this has to be done,

oni osećaju da, OK, ako veliki brat kaže da ovo mora da se uradi,

then it must be done.

onda mora da se uradi.

And that really defines China as a separate mentality,

To stvarno definiše Kinu kao poseban mentalitet.

Chinese has a separate mentality,

Kineski narod ima drugačiji mentalitet

as, say, people in Europe and America.

od, na primer, ljudi u Evropi i Americi.

HW: That sense of collective responsibility

HV: Taj smisao za kolektivnu odgovornost

sometimes feels a little absent from this culture.

ponekad deluje pomalo odsutan u ovoj kulturi.

At the same time, there are, I think, valid concerns

Istovremeno, mislim da postoje opravdane brige

around surveillance and data privacy, things like that.

oko nadzora, privatnosti podataka i tome sličnih stvari.

What is the balance here,

Šta bi bio balans u tom smislu,

and what is the right trade-off between surveillance and freedom?

i kakav bi bio odgovarajući kompromis između nadzora i slobode?

HH: I think in the internet age,

HH: Ja mislim da je on u eri interneta

it is somewhere between China and the US.

negde između Kine i SAD.

I think when you take individual freedom

Mislim da kada posmatrate ličnu slobodu

versus collective safety,

u odnosu na kolektivnu bezbednost,

there has to be a balance somewhere there.

tu mora da postoji neki balans.

With surveillance, the head of Baidu, Robin Li, once said

Kada se radi o nadzoru, vlasnik Baidua, Robin Li, rekao je jednom

the Chinese people are quite willing to give up certain individual rights

da je kineski narod prilično voljan da odustane od određenih ličnih prava

in exchange for convenience.

u zamenu za pogodnosti.

Actually, he was completely criticized on Chinese social media,

Zapravo, potpuno je iskritikovan na kineskim društvenim mrežama,

but I think he is right.

ali ja mislim da je u pravu.

Chinese people are willing to give up certain rights.

Kineski narod jeste spreman da odustane od određenih prava.

For example, we have ...

Na primer, imamo...

Chinese mostly are very proud of the payment system we have,

Kinezi su uglavnom ponosni na sistem plaćanja koji imamo,

which is you can go anywhere just with your iPhone

koji podrazumeva da možeš da ideš bilo gde samo sa svojim ajfonom,

and pay for everything,

da platiš sve,

and all they do is face-scan.

i sve što oni rade jeste skeniranje lica.

I think that probably freaks Americans out.

Mislim da to verovatno mnogo plaši Amerikance.

You know, China right now, we're still under semi-lockdown,

Znate, Kina trenutno, mi smo još uvek u poluizolaciji,

so if you go anywhere, there's an app where you scan

tako da, ako idete bilo kuda, postoji aplikacija sa kojom skenirate,

and you input your mobile phone number,

unesete svoj broj telefona,

and the app will tell the guard at the entrance of the mall, for example,

i aplikacija će reći obezbeđenju na ulazu u šoping centar, na primer,

where you have been for the past 14 days.

gde ste bili u poslednjih 14 dana.

Now, when I told that to an American,

Međutim, kad sam to ispričala Amerikanki,

she was horrified,

ona je bila užasnuta

and she thought it was such an invasion of privacy.

i pomislila da je to ogroman napad na privatnost.

On the other hand,

Sa druge strane,

as someone who is Chinese

kao neko ko je kineskog porekla,

and has lived in China for the past 20 years,

i ko je živeo u Kini poslednjih 20 godina,

although I understand that American mentality,

iako razumem taj američki mentalitet,

I still find I'm Chinese enough to think, "I don't mind this,

i dalje mislim da sam dovoljno Kineskinja da mislim: "Ne smeta mi ovo,

and I am better, I feel safer entering the mall

bolje sam, bezbednije se osećam na ulasku u šoping centar

because everybody has been scanned,"

zato što je svako skeniran",

whereas, I think individual freedom as an abstract concept

dok, mislim da je lična sloboda, kao apstraktan koncept,

in a pandemic like this

u ovakvoj pandemiji

is actually really meaningless.

zapravo veoma beznačajna.

So I think the West really needs to move a step towards the East

Tako da mislim da Zapad zaista mora da preduzme korak bliže ka Istoku,

and to think about the collective as a whole

i da pomisli o kolektivu kao celini,

rather than only think about oneself as an individual.

umesto da samo misli o sebi kao individui.

HW: The rise of antagonistic rhetoric between the US and China

HV: Uspon neprijateljske retorike između SAD i Kine

is obviously troubling,

je očigledno zabrinjavajući,

and the thing is, the countries are interlinked

i stvar je u tome što su te države međusobno povezane,

whether people understand global supply chains or not.

bez obzira na to da li ljudi razumeju svetske lance snabdevanja ili ne.

Where do you think we head next?

Šta Vi mislite da nam je sledeća stanica?

HH: You know, this is the most horrifying thing that came out of this,

HH: Znate, to je najstrašnija stvar koja je proizašla iz ovoga,

the kind of nationalistic sentiments on both sides in this pandemic.

ta vrsta nacionalističkih osećanja sa obe strane u ovoj pandemiji.

Because I'm an optimist,

Budući da sam ja optimista,

I think what will come out of this

ono što ja mislim da će iz ovoga proizaći,

is that both sides will realize that this is a fight

jeste to da će obe strane shvatiti da je ovo borba

that the entire human race has to do together and not apart.

kroz koju cela ljudska vrsta mora da prođe zajedno, a ne odvojeno.

Despite the rhetoric,

Uprkos retorici,

the global economy has grown to such an integration

svetska ekonomija je došla do takve integracije,

that decoupling will be extremely costly and painful

da će razdvajanje biti ekstremno skupo i bolno,

for both the United States and China.

i za Ameriku i za Kinu.

HW: It's also been interesting to me

HV: Meni je takođe bilo zanimljivo

to see the criticism that China has received quite vocally.

da vidim kritiku koju je Kina primila dosta glasno.

For instance, they've been criticized for downplaying the death toll,

Na primer, kritikovali su ih zbog umanjenja broja žrtava,

arguably,

što je sporno,

also for trying to demonize Dr. Li,

zbog pokušaja demonizacije dr. Lija, takođe,

the Wuhan doctor who first raised the alarm about the coronavirus.

doktora iz Vuhana koji je prvi alarmirao javnost oko korona virusa.

I just saw a report in "The New York Times"

Upravo sam u Njujork Tajmsu videla izveštaj

that Weibo users have been posting repeatedly on the last post of Dr. Li

prema kome su Weibo korisnici iznova komentarisali poslednji post dr. Lija,

and using this as kind of a living memorial to him,

koristeći to kao neku vrstu živog spomenika njemu,

chatting to him.

pričajući sa njim.

There's something like 870,000 comments and growing

Postoji oko 870 000 komentara, čiji broj još uvek raste,

on that last post.

na tom poslednjem postu.

Do you see a change in the media?

Da li vidite promenu u medijima?

Do you see a change in the approach to Chinese leadership

Da li vidite promenu u pristupu kineskom rukovodstvu,

that actually could lead to China swinging perhaps more to the center,

što bi zapravo dovelo do toga da Kina počne da naginje više ka centru,

just as perhaps America needs to swing more towards a Chinese model?

isto kao što Amerika možda treba da naginje više ka kineskom modelu?

HH: Unfortunately, not really,

HH: Nažalost, ne baš,

because I think there is a way

zato što mislim da postoji način

between authoritarian governments and its people to communicate.

na koji autoritativne vlasti i njihovi narodi komuniciraju.

The night that Dr. Li died,

U noći kada je dr. Li umro,

when it was announced that he died,

kada je bilo objavljeno da je umro,

the Chinese social media just blew up.

kineske društvene mreže su prosto eksplodirale.

Even though he was unjustly treated as a whistleblower,

Iako je bio nepravedno tretiran kao uzbunjivač,

he still went to work in the hospital

on je još uvek išao u bolnicu

and tried to save lives as a doctor,

i, kao doktor, pokušavao da spašava živote,

and then he died

a onda je umro,

because he contracted the disease.

zato što se zarazio.

So there was anger, frustration,

Tako da se pojavio bes, frustracija,

and all of that came out

i sve to je isplivalo

in kind of commemorating a figure

u ovoj vrsti komemoracije ličnosti

that they feel that the government had wronged.

o koju se, po osećanjima ljudi, vlast ogrešila.

The verdict

Osuda,

and sort of the official voice on:

i neka vrsta zvaničnog glasa na temu:

"Who is Dr. Li? Is he a good guy or a bad guy?"

''Ko je dr. Li? Da li je on dobar ili loš lik?''

completely changed 180 degrees.

potpuno se promenila, za 180 stepeni.

He went from a doctor who misbehaved

Prešao je iz statusa neposlušnog doktora

to the hero who warned the people.

u status heroja koji je upozoravao ljude.

So under authoritarian government,

Tako da, pod autoritativnom vlašću,

they still are very aware of public opinion,

ljudi su i dalje veoma svesni javnog mnjenja,

but, on the other hand,

ali, sa druge strane,

when people complain and when they commemorate Dr. Li,

kada se ljudi žale, ili kada hoće da odaju počast dr. Liju,

do they really want to change the system?

da li oni stvarno hoće da menjaju sistem?

And my answer is no,

Moj odgovor je ne,

because they don't like that particular decision,

zato što se njima ne sviđa ta konkretna odluka,

but they don't want to change the system.

ali oni ne žele da menjaju sistem.

And one of the reasons is because

Jedan od razloga je taj što oni

they have never, ever known another system.

nikad, ali nikad, nisu upoznali nijedan drugi sistem.

This is the system they know how to work.

Ovo je sistem koji oni znaju kako funkcioniše.

HW: What is wok-throwing, Huang?

HV: Šta je bacanje voka, Huang?

HH: Oh, wok-throwing is when you blame somebody else.

HH: Oh, bacanje voka je kada krivite nekog drugog.

Basically, someone who is responsible in a slang Chinese

U osnovi, u kineskom slengu, neko ko je odgovoran

is someone who carries a black wok.

jeste neko ko nosi crni vok.

You are made to be the scapegoat for something that is bad.

Primoran si da budeš žrtveni jarac za nešto što je loše.

So basically, Trump started calling it the "Chinese virus,"

Tako da je, u suštini, Tramp počeo da ga naziva "kineskim virusom",

the "Wuhan virus,"

"vuhanskim virusom",

and trying to blame the entire coronavirus pandemic

i da pokušava da svali krivicu za čitavu pandemiju korona virusa

on the Chinese.

na Kineze.

And then the Chinese, I think, threw the wok back at the Americans.

A onda su Kinezi, mislim, bacili vok nazad Amerikancima.

So it was a very funny joke on Chinese social media,

Tako da je to bila veoma smešna šala na kineskim društvenim mrežama,

that wok-throwing.

to bacanje voka.

There's a wok-throwing gymnastics aerobics exercise video that went viral.

Postoji video sa gimnastičkom vežbom bacanja voka koji se brzo proširio.

HW: But tell us, Huang:

HV: Ali recite nam, Huang:

You're also doing dances on TikTok, right?

Vi takođe plešete na TikToku, zar ne?

HH: Oh, of course.

HH: Oh, naravno.

I'm doing a lot of wok-throwing aerobics on TikTok.

Dosta se bavim aerobikom bacanja voka.

HW: I mean, a potential silver lining of all of this is that it has laid bare

HV: Mislim, potencijalna svetla tačka u svemu ovome jeste što je razotkrilo

some of the inequities, inequalities in the system,

određene nepravičnosti, nejednakosti u sistemu,

some of the broken structures that we have,

neke od razrušenih struktura koje imamo,

and if we're smart, we can rebuild better.

i, ako smo pametni, možemo ih obnoviti na bolji način.

HH: Yes. I think one of the silver linings of this pandemic

HH: Da. Mislim da je jedna od svetlih tačaka ove pandemije

is that we do realize

to što sada shvatamo

that the human race has to do something together

da ljudska rasa mora nešto da uradi zajedničkim snagama

rather than to be distinguished by our race, by the color of our skin

pre nego da pravi razlike na osnovu rase, na osnovu boje kože

or by our nationality;

ili na osnovu naše nacionalne pripadnosti;

that this virus obviously is not discriminating against anyone,

da ovaj virus očigledno ne diskriminiše nikoga,

whether you are rich or poor,

bilo da si bogat ili siromašan,

important or not important

važan ili nevažan,

or whatever skin color or nationality you are.

koje god da si boje kože, ili nacionalne pripadnosti.

So it is a time to be together,

Tako da je vreme da se ujedinimo

rather than to try to pull the world apart

umesto da pokušavamo da rastrgnemo svet

and crawl back to our own nationalistic shells.

i otpuzimo nazad u svoje nacionalističke ljušture.

HW: It's a beautiful sentiment.

HV: To je prelepa poruka.

Huang Hung, thank you so much for joining us from Beijing.

Huang Hung, hvala puno što ste nam se pridružili iz Pekinga.

Stay well, please.

Čuvajte se, molim Vas.

HH: Thank you, Helen, and you stay well as well.

HH: Hvala Vama, Helen, čuvajte se, takođe.