How American and Chinese values shaped the coronavirus response | Huang Hung

Transcriber: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Camille Martínez

Translator: Silvia Miguélez Reviewer: Xosé María Moreno

Helen Walters: Huang, it's so good to see you.

Huang, encantada de vela.

Thank you for joining us. How's your 2020 been?

Grazas por estar connosco. Como vai o seu 2020?

Huang Hung: My 2020 started totally normal.

O meu 2020 comezou ben normal.

In January, I went to Paris,

En xaneiro fun a París,

did my interview for the fashion week there,

fixen alí a entrevista para a semana da moda,

came back to Beijing on January 22nd,

volvín a Pekín o 22 de xaneiro

and finding things a little bit tense

e atopei a cousa un pouquiño tensa

because there were a lot of rumors.

porque había moitos rumores.

Having lived through SARS,

Ao ter pasado polo SARS,

I wasn't that concerned.

eu non estaba moi preocupada.

And on the 23rd, I had a friend of mine from New York come to my house

E no 23, un amigo de Nova York veu para a miña casa,

who had a flu,

con gripe,

and we had dinner together,

e ceamos xuntos,

and another friend who came,

e veu outro amigo

who left the next day for Australia for vacation on an airplane.

que se foi ao día seguinte a Australia de vacacións en avión.

So we were not taking this terribly seriously

Así que non estabamos a tomar isto demasiado en serio

until there was a lockdown.

ata que houbo a corentena.

HW: And we've seen that echo around the world.

Temos visto isto repetirse polo mundo.

I think still some people find it hard to understand the magnitude

Creo que aínda algunhas persoas atopan difícil de comprender

of some of the measures that China took.

a magnitude de algunhas das medidas de China.

I mean -- what else are we missing about China's response in all of this?

Quero dicir: que non entendemos da resposta de China?

HH: You know, historically,

Sabes, historicamente,

we're just two very different countries

somos dous países moi distintos

in terms of culture and history.

en canto a cultura e historia.

I mean, these are two completely different human experiences for its people.

Quero dicir, son dúas experiencias humanas completamente distintas para súa xente.

So, for China,

Para China,

when the lockdown happens,

cando comeza a corentena

people are OK.

á xente parécelle ben.

People are OK with it,

Á xente parécelle ben porque

because they think that's what a good parent should do.

pensa que é o que debe facer un bo pai.

You know, if a kid gets sick,

Sabes, se un neno enferma,

lévalo á súa habitación e íllalo para evitares

you put him in the other room,

and you lock him up and make sure that the other kids don't get sick.

que enfermen os demais nenos

And they expect that out of the government.

Eles esperan esto do goberno.

But when it is outside of China, from America, it becomes a huge issue

Pero fóra de China, en EEUU, devén nun gran problema

de qué é o correcto políticamente

of the right political thing to do

e se afecta a liberdade persoal.

and whether it's infringing on personal freedom.

Así que os problemas a enfrontar nunha sociedade democrática

So the issues that you have to deal with in a democratic society

are issues that one does not have to deal with in China.

son problemas cos cales un non ten que tratar en China.

I have to say that there's a word in Chinese

Teño que sinalar que hai unha palabra en chinés

that doesn't exist in any other language,

que non existe noutras linguas,

and the word is called "guāi."

a palabra "guāi."

It is what you call a kid

É o que lle chamas a un neno

who listens to his or her parents.

que obedece a seus pais.

Así que penso que, coma pobo, somos moi "guāi."

So I think, as a people, we are very "guāi."

Temos esta especie de figura autoritaria

We have this sort of authoritarian figure

que os chineses sempre respectan,

that Chinese always look up to,

and they do expect the government to actually take the actions,

e espera do seu goberno que tome as decisións,

and they will deal with it.

e eles acéptano.

However much suffering there is,

Non importa canto sufrimento haxa

they feel that, OK, if big brother says that this has to be done,

senten que, está ben, se o irmán maior di que hai que facer isto

then it must be done.

entón hai que facelo. E iso define ben China

And that really defines China as a separate mentality,

coma unha mentalidade separada,

os chineses teñen unha mentalidade separada

Chinese has a separate mentality,

se comparamos con xente de Europa e América.

as, say, people in Europe and America.

HW: That sense of collective responsibility

Ese sentido de responsabilidade colectiva

sometimes feels a little absent from this culture.

ás veces está un pouco ausente desta cultura.

Ao mesmo tempo hai preocupacións válidas, creo,

At the same time, there are, I think, valid concerns

pola vixilancia e a privacidade de datos, cousas así.

around surveillance and data privacy, things like that.

What is the balance here,

Cal é o equilibrio aquí, e cal sería o intercambio correcto entre

and what is the right trade-off between surveillance and freedom?

vixilancia e liberdade?

Creo que na era do Internet,

HH: I think in the internet age,

está nalgún punto entre China e EEUU.

it is somewhere between China and the US.

Penso que cando quitas liberdade individual

I think when you take individual freedom

a cambio da seguridade colectiva,

versus collective safety,

ten que haber un equilibrio.

there has to be a balance somewhere there.

Na vixilancia, o xefe de Baidu, Robin Li, dixo unha vez

With surveillance, the head of Baidu, Robin Li, once said

the Chinese people are quite willing to give up certain individual rights

que os chineses estaban bastante dispostos a ceder certos dereitos individuais

a cambio de comodidade.

in exchange for convenience.

Foi moi criticado nos medios sociais chineses

Actually, he was completely criticized on Chinese social media,

pero eu penso que ten razón.

but I think he is right.

Os chineses están dispostos a perder certos dereitos.

Chinese people are willing to give up certain rights.

Por exemplo, temos... Os chineses estamos moi orgullosos

For example, we have ...

Chinese mostly are very proud of the payment system we have,

do noso sistema de pagamento:

podes ir a calquera parte só co teu iPhone

which is you can go anywhere just with your iPhone

and pay for everything,

e pagalo todo, todo o que fan

é un escaneo facial.

and all they do is face-scan.

I think that probably freaks Americans out.

Penso que quizá isto asusta nos EEUU.

You know, China right now, we're still under semi-lockdown,

Sabes, en China agora mesmo seguimos en semi corentena,

así que se vas a algún lugar, hai unha app onde escaneas

so if you go anywhere, there's an app where you scan

and you input your mobile phone number,

e metes o teu número de móbil, e a app lle di ao vixiante da entrada

and the app will tell the guard at the entrance of the mall, for example,

do centro comercial, por exemplo,

onde estiveches nos anteriores 14 días.

where you have been for the past 14 days.

Cando llo contei a unha estadounidense

Now, when I told that to an American,

quedou arrepiada e pensou que era unha invasión

she was horrified,

and she thought it was such an invasion of privacy.

da privacidade moi grande.

Por outra banda,

On the other hand,

como cidadá da China

as someone who is Chinese

que viviu aquí os pasados 20 anos,

and has lived in China for the past 20 years,

aínda que entendo a mentalidade estadounidense,

although I understand that American mentality,

son o bastante chinesa para pensar "non me importa isto,

I still find I'm Chinese enough to think, "I don't mind this,

estou mellor e síntome máis segura entrando no centro comercial

and I am better, I feel safer entering the mall

because everybody has been scanned,"

se todos fosen escaneados,"

whereas, I think individual freedom as an abstract concept

penso na liberdade individual como concepto abstracto

pero nunha pandemia como esta

in a pandemic like this

non ten ningún sentido. Así, penso que o Occidente

is actually really meaningless.

So I think the West really needs to move a step towards the East

precisa dar un paso cara ao este

e pensar no colectivo no seu conxunto,

and to think about the collective as a whole

rather than only think about oneself as an individual.

non soamente nun mesmo coma individuo.

HW: The rise of antagonistic rhetoric between the US and China

O incremento da retórica antagonista entre EEUU e China

é claramente preocupante, isto é,

is obviously troubling,

and the thing is, the countries are interlinked

os países están interrelacionados

whether people understand global supply chains or not.

comprenda a xente ou non

as cadeas globais de subministración. Cara onde cres que imos agora?

Where do you think we head next?

HH: You know, this is the most horrifying thing that came out of this,

Sabes, o máis alarmante que saíu disto

the kind of nationalistic sentiments on both sides in this pandemic.

é estes sentimentos nacionalistas de ambos os dous lados da pandemia

Because I'm an optimist,

Xa que son optimista,

creo que o que ha de resultar disto

I think what will come out of this

é que ambas as partes se decaten de que isto é unha loita

is that both sides will realize that this is a fight

que toda a humanidade ten que enfrontar unida e non separada.

that the entire human race has to do together and not apart.

Despite the rhetoric,

A pesar da retórica,

a economía global creceu ata chegar a tal integración

the global economy has grown to such an integration

that decoupling will be extremely costly and painful

que desvincularse será extremadamente custoso e doloroso

para tanto EEUU coma China.

for both the United States and China.

HW: It's also been interesting to me

Tamén foi interesante para min

to see the criticism that China has received quite vocally.

ver as críticas recibidas por China.

Por exemplo, foron criticados por minimizar o índice de mortalidade,

For instance, they've been criticized for downplaying the death toll,

probablemente, tamén por tentar demonizar

arguably,

also for trying to demonize Dr. Li,

ao doutor Li de Wuhan,

the Wuhan doctor who first raised the alarm about the coronavirus.

o primeiro que deu a alarma do coronavirus.

I just saw a report in "The New York Times"

Acabo de ver nunha noticia no "NYT" que os usuarios de Weibo

that Weibo users have been posting repeatedly on the last post of Dr. Li

comentaran moitas veces na última mensaxe

do doutor Li, empregando isto coma unha homenaxe viva,

and using this as kind of a living memorial to him,

chatting to him.

falando con el. Hai uns 870,000 comentarios

There's something like 870,000 comments and growing

e seguen a crecer

on that last post.

nesa última mensaxe.

Ves algún cambio nos medios?

Do you see a change in the media?

Algún cambio no enfoque do liderado chinés

Do you see a change in the approach to Chinese leadership

que puidese conducir a China máis cara ao centro,

that actually could lead to China swinging perhaps more to the center,

just as perhaps America needs to swing more towards a Chinese model?

do mesmo xeito que quizá EEUU precisa achegarse máis a un modelo chinés?

HH: Unfortunately, not really,

Desafortunadamente, non moito,

because I think there is a way

porque creo que hai unha forma de comunicarse

between authoritarian governments and its people to communicate.

entre os gobernos autoritarios e o seu pobo.

The night that Dr. Li died,

A noite que o doutor Li morreu,

when it was announced that he died,

cando anunciaron que morrera,

a xente nos medios sociais chineses explotou.

the Chinese social media just blew up.

Even though he was unjustly treated as a whistleblower,

Aínda que o trataran inxustamente coma informador,

continuou traballando no hospital

he still went to work in the hospital

e intentou salvar vidas coma doutor,

and tried to save lives as a doctor,

e entón morreu

and then he died

because he contracted the disease.

porque contraera a enfermidade.

So there was anger, frustration,

Así que houbo rabia, frustración,

and all of that came out

e todo isto resultou

no intento de commemorar unha figura

in kind of commemorating a figure

that they feel that the government had wronged.

á que senten que seu goberno danou.

The verdict

O veredicto

e voz oficial sobre:

and sort of the official voice on:

"Quen é o doutor Li? É boa ou mala persoa?"

"Who is Dr. Li? Is he a good guy or a bad guy?"

completely changed 180 degrees.

deu un cambio de 180º.

He went from a doctor who misbehaved

Pasou dun doutor que se portara mal

a un heroe que avisara á xente.

to the hero who warned the people.

Así que baixo un goberno autoritario,

So under authoritarian government,

seguen moi conscientes da opinión pública,

they still are very aware of public opinion,

but, on the other hand,

pero, por outra banda, cando a xente protesta

when people complain and when they commemorate Dr. Li,

e conmemoran ao doutor Li,

do they really want to change the system?

queren realmente cambiar o sistema?

And my answer is no,

A miña resposta é non,

porque non lles gusta esa decisión en particular,

because they don't like that particular decision,

pero non queren cambiar o sistema.

but they don't want to change the system.

E unha das razóns é porque

And one of the reasons is because

nunca coñeceron outro sistema.

they have never, ever known another system.

This is the system they know how to work.

Este é o sistema que entenden como funciona.

Que é o lanzamento de wok, Huang?

HW: What is wok-throwing, Huang?

HH: Oh, wok-throwing is when you blame somebody else.

Oh, lanzamento de wok é cando

culpas a outra persoa. En xiria chinesa, o culpable

Basically, someone who is responsible in a slang Chinese

is someone who carries a black wok.

é alguén que leva un wok negro.

You are made to be the scapegoat for something that is bad.

convérteste na vítima propiciatoria por algo malo.

So basically, Trump started calling it the "Chinese virus,"

Por exemplo, Trump comezou a chamalo o "virus chinés",

o "virus wuhanés", e intentou culpar de toda a pandemia

the "Wuhan virus,"

and trying to blame the entire coronavirus pandemic

do coronavirus

on the Chinese.

aos chineses. E entón os chineses, penso eu,

And then the Chinese, I think, threw the wok back at the Americans.

devolvéronlles o wok

aos estadounidenses. Así que foi unha broma moi divertida

So it was a very funny joke on Chinese social media,

nos medios sociais chineses, ese lanzamento de wok.

that wok-throwing.

There's a wok-throwing gymnastics aerobics exercise video that went viral.

Un vídeo de ximnasia

de lanzamento de wok, volveuse viral. Pero cóntanos, Huang:

HW: But tell us, Huang:

You're also doing dances on TikTok, right?

Tí tamén bailas

no TikTok, certo? Si, claro.

HH: Oh, of course.

I'm doing a lot of wok-throwing aerobics on TikTok.

Fago moito lanzamento de wok

no TikTok. Quero dicir, unha cousa boa potencial

HW: I mean, a potential silver lining of all of this is that it has laid bare

en todo isto é que descubriu algunhas das desigualdades no sistema,

some of the inequities, inequalities in the system,

some of the broken structures that we have,

algunhas das estruturas rotas que temos,

and if we're smart, we can rebuild better.

e se somos intelixentes, podemos facelo mellor.

Si. Penso que un dos positivos desta pandemia

HH: Yes. I think one of the silver linings of this pandemic

is that we do realize

é que nos decatemos

de que a humanidade ten que facer algo unida,

that the human race has to do something together

sen distinción de raza, cor de pel,

rather than to be distinguished by our race, by the color of our skin

or by our nationality;

ou nacionalidade; de que este virus claramente

that this virus obviously is not discriminating against anyone,

whether you are rich or poor,

non discrimina a ninguén,

sexas rico ou pobre,

important or not important

importante ou non,

non importa a túa cor de pel ou nacionalidade.

or whatever skin color or nationality you are.

So it is a time to be together,

Así que é un tempo para estarmos xuntos,

non intentar separar o mundo

rather than to try to pull the world apart

e voltar ás nosas cunchas nacionalistas.

and crawl back to our own nationalistic shells.

HW: It's a beautiful sentiment.

É un sentimento fermoso.

Huang Hung, moitas grazas por unirte

Huang Hung, thank you so much for joining us from Beijing.

por falar connosco desde Pekín.Boa saúde. Moitas grazas

Stay well, please.

e boa saúde a ti tamén, Helen.

HH: Thank you, Helen, and you stay well as well.