How American and Chinese values shaped the coronavirus response | Huang Hung

117,793 views ・ 2020-05-26

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00:00
Transcriber: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Camille Martínez
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Translator: Silvia Miguélez Reviewer: Xosé María Moreno
00:12
Helen Walters: Huang, it's so good to see you.
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Huang, encantada de vela.
00:15
Thank you for joining us. How's your 2020 been?
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Grazas por estar connosco. Como vai o seu 2020?
00:17
Huang Hung: My 2020 started totally normal.
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O meu 2020 comezou ben normal.
00:20
In January, I went to Paris,
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En xaneiro fun a París,
00:24
did my interview for the fashion week there,
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fixen alí a entrevista para a semana da moda,
00:27
came back to Beijing on January 22nd,
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volvín a Pekín o 22 de xaneiro
00:31
and finding things a little bit tense
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e atopei a cousa un pouquiño tensa
00:34
because there were a lot of rumors.
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porque había moitos rumores.
00:37
Having lived through SARS,
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Ao ter pasado polo SARS,
00:41
I wasn't that concerned.
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eu non estaba moi preocupada.
00:43
And on the 23rd, I had a friend of mine from New York come to my house
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E no 23, un amigo de Nova York veu para a miña casa,
00:48
who had a flu,
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con gripe,
00:50
and we had dinner together,
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e ceamos xuntos,
00:52
and another friend who came,
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e veu outro amigo
00:54
who left the next day for Australia for vacation on an airplane.
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que se foi ao día seguinte a Australia de vacacións en avión.
00:59
So we were not taking this terribly seriously
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Así que non estabamos a tomar isto demasiado en serio
01:03
until there was a lockdown.
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ata que houbo a corentena.
01:06
HW: And we've seen that echo around the world.
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Temos visto isto repetirse polo mundo.
01:08
I think still some people find it hard to understand the magnitude
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Creo que aínda algunhas persoas atopan difícil de comprender
01:11
of some of the measures that China took.
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a magnitude de algunhas das medidas de China.
01:14
I mean -- what else are we missing about China's response in all of this?
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Quero dicir: que non entendemos da resposta de China?
01:18
HH: You know, historically,
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Sabes, historicamente,
01:19
we're just two very different countries
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somos dous países moi distintos
01:24
in terms of culture and history.
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en canto a cultura e historia.
01:27
I mean, these are two completely different human experiences for its people.
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Quero dicir, son dúas experiencias humanas completamente distintas para súa xente.
01:33
So, for China,
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Para China,
01:36
when the lockdown happens,
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cando comeza a corentena
01:39
people are OK.
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á xente parécelle ben.
01:43
People are OK with it,
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Á xente parécelle ben porque
01:44
because they think that's what a good parent should do.
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pensa que é o que debe facer un bo pai.
01:48
You know, if a kid gets sick,
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Sabes, se un neno enferma,
lévalo á súa habitación e íllalo para evitares
01:51
you put him in the other room,
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01:52
and you lock him up and make sure that the other kids don't get sick.
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que enfermen os demais nenos
01:57
And they expect that out of the government.
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Eles esperan esto do goberno.
02:00
But when it is outside of China, from America, it becomes a huge issue
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Pero fóra de China, en EEUU, devén nun gran problema
de qué é o correcto políticamente
02:06
of the right political thing to do
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e se afecta a liberdade persoal.
02:08
and whether it's infringing on personal freedom.
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Así que os problemas a enfrontar nunha sociedade democrática
02:12
So the issues that you have to deal with in a democratic society
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02:16
are issues that one does not have to deal with in China.
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son problemas cos cales un non ten que tratar en China.
02:21
I have to say that there's a word in Chinese
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Teño que sinalar que hai unha palabra en chinés
02:23
that doesn't exist in any other language,
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que non existe noutras linguas,
02:27
and the word is called "guāi."
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a palabra "guāi."
02:29
It is what you call a kid
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É o que lle chamas a un neno
02:32
who listens to his or her parents.
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que obedece a seus pais.
Así que penso que, coma pobo, somos moi "guāi."
02:36
So I think, as a people, we are very "guāi."
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Temos esta especie de figura autoritaria
02:40
We have this sort of authoritarian figure
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que os chineses sempre respectan,
02:43
that Chinese always look up to,
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02:46
and they do expect the government to actually take the actions,
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e espera do seu goberno que tome as decisións,
02:51
and they will deal with it.
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e eles acéptano.
02:53
However much suffering there is,
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Non importa canto sufrimento haxa
02:56
they feel that, OK, if big brother says that this has to be done,
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senten que, está ben, se o irmán maior di que hai que facer isto
03:02
then it must be done.
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entón hai que facelo. E iso define ben China
03:04
And that really defines China as a separate mentality,
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coma unha mentalidade separada,
os chineses teñen unha mentalidade separada
03:09
Chinese has a separate mentality,
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se comparamos con xente de Europa e América.
03:12
as, say, people in Europe and America.
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03:16
HW: That sense of collective responsibility
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Ese sentido de responsabilidade colectiva
03:18
sometimes feels a little absent from this culture.
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ás veces está un pouco ausente desta cultura.
Ao mesmo tempo hai preocupacións válidas, creo,
03:22
At the same time, there are, I think, valid concerns
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pola vixilancia e a privacidade de datos, cousas así.
03:26
around surveillance and data privacy, things like that.
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03:30
What is the balance here,
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Cal é o equilibrio aquí, e cal sería o intercambio correcto entre
03:32
and what is the right trade-off between surveillance and freedom?
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vixilancia e liberdade?
Creo que na era do Internet,
03:37
HH: I think in the internet age,
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está nalgún punto entre China e EEUU.
03:40
it is somewhere between China and the US.
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Penso que cando quitas liberdade individual
03:45
I think when you take individual freedom
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a cambio da seguridade colectiva,
03:52
versus collective safety,
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ten que haber un equilibrio.
03:54
there has to be a balance somewhere there.
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Na vixilancia, o xefe de Baidu, Robin Li, dixo unha vez
03:57
With surveillance, the head of Baidu, Robin Li, once said
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04:03
the Chinese people are quite willing to give up certain individual rights
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que os chineses estaban bastante dispostos a ceder certos dereitos individuais
a cambio de comodidade.
04:09
in exchange for convenience.
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Foi moi criticado nos medios sociais chineses
04:11
Actually, he was completely criticized on Chinese social media,
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pero eu penso que ten razón.
04:16
but I think he is right.
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Os chineses están dispostos a perder certos dereitos.
04:17
Chinese people are willing to give up certain rights.
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Por exemplo, temos... Os chineses estamos moi orgullosos
04:21
For example, we have ...
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04:24
Chinese mostly are very proud of the payment system we have,
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do noso sistema de pagamento:
podes ir a calquera parte só co teu iPhone
04:28
which is you can go anywhere just with your iPhone
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04:31
and pay for everything,
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e pagalo todo, todo o que fan
é un escaneo facial.
04:33
and all they do is face-scan.
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04:34
I think that probably freaks Americans out.
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Penso que quizá isto asusta nos EEUU.
04:38
You know, China right now, we're still under semi-lockdown,
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Sabes, en China agora mesmo seguimos en semi corentena,
así que se vas a algún lugar, hai unha app onde escaneas
04:43
so if you go anywhere, there's an app where you scan
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04:47
and you input your mobile phone number,
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e metes o teu número de móbil, e a app lle di ao vixiante da entrada
04:51
and the app will tell the guard at the entrance of the mall, for example,
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do centro comercial, por exemplo,
onde estiveches nos anteriores 14 días.
04:57
where you have been for the past 14 days.
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Cando llo contei a unha estadounidense
05:00
Now, when I told that to an American,
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quedou arrepiada e pensou que era unha invasión
05:03
she was horrified,
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05:04
and she thought it was such an invasion of privacy.
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da privacidade moi grande.
Por outra banda,
05:08
On the other hand,
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como cidadá da China
05:11
as someone who is Chinese
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que viviu aquí os pasados 20 anos,
05:13
and has lived in China for the past 20 years,
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aínda que entendo a mentalidade estadounidense,
05:18
although I understand that American mentality,
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son o bastante chinesa para pensar "non me importa isto,
05:21
I still find I'm Chinese enough to think, "I don't mind this,
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estou mellor e síntome máis segura entrando no centro comercial
05:27
and I am better, I feel safer entering the mall
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05:31
because everybody has been scanned,"
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se todos fosen escaneados,"
05:34
whereas, I think individual freedom as an abstract concept
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penso na liberdade individual como concepto abstracto
pero nunha pandemia como esta
05:42
in a pandemic like this
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non ten ningún sentido. Así, penso que o Occidente
05:44
is actually really meaningless.
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05:46
So I think the West really needs to move a step towards the East
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precisa dar un paso cara ao este
e pensar no colectivo no seu conxunto,
05:52
and to think about the collective as a whole
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05:55
rather than only think about oneself as an individual.
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non soamente nun mesmo coma individuo.
05:58
HW: The rise of antagonistic rhetoric between the US and China
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O incremento da retórica antagonista entre EEUU e China
é claramente preocupante, isto é,
06:01
is obviously troubling,
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06:03
and the thing is, the countries are interlinked
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os países están interrelacionados
06:06
whether people understand global supply chains or not.
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comprenda a xente ou non
as cadeas globais de subministración. Cara onde cres que imos agora?
06:09
Where do you think we head next?
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06:11
HH: You know, this is the most horrifying thing that came out of this,
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Sabes, o máis alarmante que saíu disto
06:16
the kind of nationalistic sentiments on both sides in this pandemic.
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é estes sentimentos nacionalistas de ambos os dous lados da pandemia
06:22
Because I'm an optimist,
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Xa que son optimista,
creo que o que ha de resultar disto
06:24
I think what will come out of this
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é que ambas as partes se decaten de que isto é unha loita
06:28
is that both sides will realize that this is a fight
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que toda a humanidade ten que enfrontar unida e non separada.
06:34
that the entire human race has to do together and not apart.
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06:38
Despite the rhetoric,
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A pesar da retórica,
a economía global creceu ata chegar a tal integración
06:40
the global economy has grown to such an integration
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06:45
that decoupling will be extremely costly and painful
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que desvincularse será extremadamente custoso e doloroso
para tanto EEUU coma China.
06:52
for both the United States and China.
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06:54
HW: It's also been interesting to me
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Tamén foi interesante para min
06:56
to see the criticism that China has received quite vocally.
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ver as críticas recibidas por China.
Por exemplo, foron criticados por minimizar o índice de mortalidade,
07:00
For instance, they've been criticized for downplaying the death toll,
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probablemente, tamén por tentar demonizar
07:05
arguably,
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07:06
also for trying to demonize Dr. Li,
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ao doutor Li de Wuhan,
07:09
the Wuhan doctor who first raised the alarm about the coronavirus.
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o primeiro que deu a alarma do coronavirus.
07:15
I just saw a report in "The New York Times"
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Acabo de ver nunha noticia no "NYT" que os usuarios de Weibo
07:17
that Weibo users have been posting repeatedly on the last post of Dr. Li
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comentaran moitas veces na última mensaxe
do doutor Li, empregando isto coma unha homenaxe viva,
07:23
and using this as kind of a living memorial to him,
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07:26
chatting to him.
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falando con el. Hai uns 870,000 comentarios
07:27
There's something like 870,000 comments and growing
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e seguen a crecer
07:31
on that last post.
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nesa última mensaxe.
Ves algún cambio nos medios?
07:33
Do you see a change in the media?
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Algún cambio no enfoque do liderado chinés
07:36
Do you see a change in the approach to Chinese leadership
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que puidese conducir a China máis cara ao centro,
07:39
that actually could lead to China swinging perhaps more to the center,
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07:43
just as perhaps America needs to swing more towards a Chinese model?
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do mesmo xeito que quizá EEUU precisa achegarse máis a un modelo chinés?
07:47
HH: Unfortunately, not really,
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Desafortunadamente, non moito,
07:50
because I think there is a way
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porque creo que hai unha forma de comunicarse
07:55
between authoritarian governments and its people to communicate.
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entre os gobernos autoritarios e o seu pobo.
07:59
The night that Dr. Li died,
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A noite que o doutor Li morreu,
08:02
when it was announced that he died,
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cando anunciaron que morrera,
a xente nos medios sociais chineses explotou.
08:06
the Chinese social media just blew up.
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08:09
Even though he was unjustly treated as a whistleblower,
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Aínda que o trataran inxustamente coma informador,
continuou traballando no hospital
08:12
he still went to work in the hospital
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e intentou salvar vidas coma doutor,
08:14
and tried to save lives as a doctor,
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e entón morreu
08:17
and then he died
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08:18
because he contracted the disease.
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porque contraera a enfermidade.
08:20
So there was anger, frustration,
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Así que houbo rabia, frustración,
08:23
and all of that came out
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e todo isto resultou
no intento de commemorar unha figura
08:25
in kind of commemorating a figure
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08:28
that they feel that the government had wronged.
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á que senten que seu goberno danou.
08:32
The verdict
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O veredicto
e voz oficial sobre:
08:34
and sort of the official voice on:
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"Quen é o doutor Li? É boa ou mala persoa?"
08:38
"Who is Dr. Li? Is he a good guy or a bad guy?"
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08:41
completely changed 180 degrees.
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deu un cambio de 180º.
08:45
He went from a doctor who misbehaved
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Pasou dun doutor que se portara mal
a un heroe que avisara á xente.
08:49
to the hero who warned the people.
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Así que baixo un goberno autoritario,
08:52
So under authoritarian government,
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seguen moi conscientes da opinión pública,
08:55
they still are very aware of public opinion,
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09:00
but, on the other hand,
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pero, por outra banda, cando a xente protesta
09:02
when people complain and when they commemorate Dr. Li,
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e conmemoran ao doutor Li,
09:07
do they really want to change the system?
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queren realmente cambiar o sistema?
09:10
And my answer is no,
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A miña resposta é non,
porque non lles gusta esa decisión en particular,
09:13
because they don't like that particular decision,
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pero non queren cambiar o sistema.
09:17
but they don't want to change the system.
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E unha das razóns é porque
09:20
And one of the reasons is because
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nunca coñeceron outro sistema.
09:22
they have never, ever known another system.
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09:25
This is the system they know how to work.
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Este é o sistema que entenden como funciona.
Que é o lanzamento de wok, Huang?
09:29
HW: What is wok-throwing, Huang?
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09:31
HH: Oh, wok-throwing is when you blame somebody else.
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Oh, lanzamento de wok é cando
culpas a outra persoa. En xiria chinesa, o culpable
09:36
Basically, someone who is responsible in a slang Chinese
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09:42
is someone who carries a black wok.
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é alguén que leva un wok negro.
09:45
You are made to be the scapegoat for something that is bad.
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convérteste na vítima propiciatoria por algo malo.
09:51
So basically, Trump started calling it the "Chinese virus,"
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Por exemplo, Trump comezou a chamalo o "virus chinés",
o "virus wuhanés", e intentou culpar de toda a pandemia
09:56
the "Wuhan virus,"
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09:57
and trying to blame the entire coronavirus pandemic
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do coronavirus
10:03
on the Chinese.
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aos chineses. E entón os chineses, penso eu,
10:04
And then the Chinese, I think, threw the wok back at the Americans.
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devolvéronlles o wok
aos estadounidenses. Así que foi unha broma moi divertida
10:09
So it was a very funny joke on Chinese social media,
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nos medios sociais chineses, ese lanzamento de wok.
10:14
that wok-throwing.
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10:15
There's a wok-throwing gymnastics aerobics exercise video that went viral.
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Un vídeo de ximnasia
de lanzamento de wok, volveuse viral. Pero cóntanos, Huang:
10:21
HW: But tell us, Huang:
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10:22
You're also doing dances on TikTok, right?
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Tí tamén bailas
no TikTok, certo? Si, claro.
10:25
HH: Oh, of course.
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10:27
I'm doing a lot of wok-throwing aerobics on TikTok.
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Fago moito lanzamento de wok
no TikTok. Quero dicir, unha cousa boa potencial
10:31
HW: I mean, a potential silver lining of all of this is that it has laid bare
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en todo isto é que descubriu algunhas das desigualdades no sistema,
10:35
some of the inequities, inequalities in the system,
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10:38
some of the broken structures that we have,
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algunhas das estruturas rotas que temos,
10:41
and if we're smart, we can rebuild better.
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e se somos intelixentes, podemos facelo mellor.
Si. Penso que un dos positivos desta pandemia
10:44
HH: Yes. I think one of the silver linings of this pandemic
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10:48
is that we do realize
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é que nos decatemos
de que a humanidade ten que facer algo unida,
10:52
that the human race has to do something together
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sen distinción de raza, cor de pel,
10:59
rather than to be distinguished by our race, by the color of our skin
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11:05
or by our nationality;
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ou nacionalidade; de que este virus claramente
11:07
that this virus obviously is not discriminating against anyone,
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11:12
whether you are rich or poor,
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non discrimina a ninguén,
sexas rico ou pobre,
11:14
important or not important
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importante ou non,
non importa a túa cor de pel ou nacionalidade.
11:17
or whatever skin color or nationality you are.
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11:20
So it is a time to be together,
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Así que é un tempo para estarmos xuntos,
non intentar separar o mundo
11:24
rather than to try to pull the world apart
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e voltar ás nosas cunchas nacionalistas.
11:28
and crawl back to our own nationalistic shells.
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11:32
HW: It's a beautiful sentiment.
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É un sentimento fermoso.
Huang Hung, moitas grazas por unirte
11:34
Huang Hung, thank you so much for joining us from Beijing.
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por falar connosco desde Pekín.Boa saúde. Moitas grazas
11:36
Stay well, please.
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e boa saúde a ti tamén, Helen.
11:39
HH: Thank you, Helen, and you stay well as well.
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