Julian Baggini: Is there a real you?

Prevodilac: Ivana Krivokuća Lektor: Mile Živković

Is there a real you?

Da li postoji vaša prava ličnost?

This might seem to you like a very odd question.

Ovo vam možda deluje kao vrlo čudno pitanje.

Because, you might ask,

Jer, možda se pitate,

how do we find the real you,

kako nalazimo pravu ličnost,

how do you know what the real you is?

kako da znate kakva je vaša prava ličnost?

And so forth.

I tako dalje.

But the idea that there must be a real you,

Ali ideja da mora postojati vaša prava ličnost,

surely that's obvious.

to je svakako očigledno.

If there's anything real in the world, it's you.

Ako je nešto stvarno na svetu, onda ste to vi.

Well, I'm not quite sure.

Pa, nisam baš siguran.

At least we have to understand a bit better what that means.

Makar moramo malo bolje da razumemo šta to znači.

Now certainly, I think there are lots of things in our culture around us

Svakako, mislim da ima mnogo toga u kulturi oko nas

which sort of reinforce the idea

koje nekako pojačavaju ideju

that for each one of us, we have a kind of a core, an essence.

da svako od nas ima nekakvu srž, suštinu.

There is something about what it means to be you which defines you,

U tome šta znači biti vi se nalazi nešto što vas definiše,

and it's kind of permanent and unchanging.

i to je trajno i nepromenljivo.

The most kind of crude way in which we have it,

Najbanalniji način u kome je to dato

are things like horoscopes.

su stvari kao što je horoskop.

You know, people are very wedded to these, actually.

Znate, ljudi su zapravo veoma posvećeni ovome.

People put them on their Facebook profile

Stavljaju ih na svoje Fejsbuk profile

as though they are meaningul,

kao da su od značaja,

you even know your Chinese horoscope as well.

čak znaju i svoj kineski horoskop.

There are also more scientific versions of this,

Postoje i naučne verzije ovoga,

all sorts of ways of profiling personality type,

razni načini profilisanja tipova ličnosti,

such as the Myers-Briggs tests, for example.

kao što su Majers-Brigsovi testovi, na primer.

I don't know if you've done those.

Ne znam da li ste ih radili.

A lot of companies use these for recruitment.

Dosta kompanija ih koristi za regrutovanje.

You answer a lot of questions,

Odgovarate na mnogo pitanja,

and this is supposed to reveal something about your core personality.

i to bi trebalo da otkrije nešto o vašoj suštinskoj ličnosti.

And of course, the popular fascination with this is enormous.

I naravno, popularna fascinacija ovime je ogromna.

In magazines like this, you'll see,

U ovakvim magazinima, videćete,

in the bottom left corner, they'll advertise in virtually every issue

u donjem levom uglu, reklamiraju u gotovo svakom broju

some kind of personality thing.

nešto u vezi ličnosti.

And if you pick up one of those magazines,

I ako uzmete neki od tih magazina,

it's hard to resist, isn't it?

teško je odoleti, zar ne?

Doing the test to find what is your learning style,

Raditi test da otkrijete koji je vaš stil učenja,

what is your loving style, or what is your working style?

koji je vaš stil u ljubavi, stil na poslu?

Are you this kind of person or that?

Da li ste ova ili ona vrsta osobe?

So I think that we have a common-sense idea

Mislim da imamo tu zdravorazumsku ideju

that there is a kind of core or essence of ourselves

da postoji neka vrsta srži ili suštine nas samih

to be discovered.

koja treba da bude otkrivena.

And that this is kind of a permanent truth about ourselves,

I da je to neka trajna istina o nama,

something that's the same throughout life.

nešto što ostaje isto kroz ceo život.

Well, that's the idea I want to challenge.

Pa, to je ideja koju želim da osporim.

And I have to say now, I'll say it a bit later,

I moram da kažem sada, reći ću malo kasnije,

but I'm not challenging this just because I'm weird,

ali ne dovodim ovo u pitanje samo zato što sam čudak,

the challenge actually has a very, very long and distinguished history.

preispitivanje zapravo ima vrlo, vrlo dugu i karakterističnu istoriju.

Here's the common-sense idea.

Evo zdravorazumske ideje.

There is you.

Tu ste vi.

You are the individuals you are, and you have this kind of core.

Vi ste pojedinci kakvi jeste, i imate tu neku srž.

Now in your life, what happens is that you, of course,

U vašem životu, dešava se da vi, naravno,

accumulate different experiences and so forth.

gomilate različita iskustva i tako dalje.

So you have memories,

Imate sećanja,

and these memories help to create what you are.

i ta sećanja pomažu da nastane ono što jeste.

You have desires, maybe for a cookie,

Imate želje, možda za kolačićem,

maybe for something that we don't want to talk about

možda za nečim o čemu ne želimo da govorimo

at 11 o'clock in the morning in a school.

u 11 sati ujutru u školi.

You will have beliefs.

Imate uverenja.

This is a number plate from someone in America.

Ovo je registarska tablica nekog iz Amerike.

I don't know whether this number plate, which says "messiah 1,"

Ne znam da li ova tabla, koja kaže "mesija 1",

indicates that the driver believes in the messiah,

ukazuje da vozač veruje u mesiju,

or that they are the messiah.

ili da je on mesija.

Either way, they have beliefs about messiahs.

U svakom slučaju, ima uverenja o mesiji.

We have knowledge.

Imamo znanje.

We have sensations and experiences as well.

Takođe imamo osećaje i iskustva.

It's not just intellectual things.

Nisu to samo intelektualne stvari.

So this is kind of the common-sense model, I think,

Dakle ovo je neki zdravorazumski model, ja mislim,

of what a person is.

o tome šta je osoba.

There is a person who has all the things that make up our life experiences.

Tu je osoba koja ima sve one stvari koje sačinjavaju naša životna iskustva.

But the suggestion I want to put to you today

Ali predlog koji želim da vam iznesem danas

is that there's something fundamentally wrong with this model.

je da postoji nešto suštinski pogrešno u vezi sa ovim modelom.

And I can show you what's wrong with one click.

I mogu vam pokazati šta je pogrešno jednim klikom.

Which is there isn't actually a "you" at the heart of all these experiences.

A to je da ne postojite zaista "vi" u srcu ovih iskustava.

Strange thought? Well, maybe not.

Čudna pomisao? Možda ne.

What is there, then?

Šta se tamo nalazi, onda?

Well, clearly there are memories, desires, intentions, sensations,

Pa, jasno je da su tamo sećanja, želje, namere, osećaji,

and so forth.

i tako dalje.

But what happens is these things exist,

Ali ono što se dešava je da ove stvari postoje,

and they're kind of all integrated,

i nekako su integrisane,

they're overlapped, they're connected in various different ways.

preklapaju se, povezane su na više različitih načina.

They're connecting partly, and perhaps even mainly,

Povezuju se delom, a možda i uglavnom,

because they all belong to one body and one brain.

zato što pripadaju jednom telu i jednom mozgu.

But there's also a narrative, a story we tell about ourselves,

Ali takođe postoji i narativ, priča koju pričamo o nama,

the experiences we have when we remember past things.

iskustva koja imamo kada se prisećamo prošlih stvari.

We do things because of other things.

Radimo stvari zbog drugih stvari.

So what we desire is partly a result of what we believe,

Tako je ono što želimo delom posledica onoga u šta verujemo,

and what we remember is also informing us what we know.

a ono čega se sećamo nas takođe obaveštava o onome što znamo.

And so really, there are all these things,

I tako u stvari, tu su sve te stvari,

like beliefs, desires, sensations, experiences,

kao što su verovanja, želje, osećaji, iskustva,

they're all related to each other,

svi su one međusobno povezane,

and that just is you.

i to ste prosto vi.

In some ways, it's a small difference from the common-sense understanding.

Na neki način, razlika je mala u odnosu na zdravorazumsko shvatanje.

In some ways, it's a massive one.

Na neki način, ogromna je.

It's the shift between thinking of yourself

To je prelaz između razmišljanja o sebi

as a thing which has all the experiences of life,

kao nečemu što ima sva iskustva života,

and thinking of yourself as simply that collection

i razmišljanja o sebi prosto kao o toj zbirci

of all experiences in life.

svih iskustava o životu.

You are the sum of your parts.

Vi ste suma svojih delova.

Now those parts are also physical parts, of course,

Ti delovi su takođe i fizički delovi, naravno,

brains, bodies and legs and things,

mozgovi, tela i noge i ostalo,

but they aren't so important, actually.

ali oni nisu tako bitni, zapravo.

Ako imate transplantaciju srca, i dalje ste ista osoba.

If you have a heart transplant, you're still the same person.

If you have a memory transplant, are you the same person?

Ako imate transplantaciju sećanja, da li ste i dalje ista osoba?

If you have a belief transplant, would you be the same person?

Ako imate transplantaciju verovanja, da li biste i dalje bili ista osoba?

Now this idea, that what we are, the way to understand ourselves,

Ova ideja da smo mi, način za razumevanje nas samih,

is as not of some permanent being, which has experiences,

nije kao nekog postojanog bića, koje ima iskustva,

but is kind of a collection of experiences,

već nekakve zbirke iskustava,

might strike you as kind of weird.

možda vam deluje kao čudna.

But actually, I don't think it should be weird.

Ali zapravo, ne mislim da bi trebalo da bude čudna.

In a way, it's common sense.

Na neki način, to je zdrav razum.

Because I just invite you to think about, by comparison,

Jer vas pozivam da razmisite o, poređenja radi,

think about pretty much anything else in the universe,

o bilo čemu drugom u univerzumu,

maybe apart from the very most fundamental forces or powers.

možda osim najfundamentalnijih sila ili snaga.

Let's take something like water.

Uzmimo nešto poput vode.

Now my science isn't very good.

Nisam baš dobar sa naukom.

We might say something like water has two parts hydrogen

Možemo reći da voda ima dva dela vodonika

and one parts oxygen, right?

i jedan deo kiseonika, zar ne?

We all know that.

Svi to znamo.

I hope no one in this room thinks that what that means

Nadam se da niko u ovoj sobi ne misli da to znači

is there is a thing called water, and attached to it

da postoji nešto što se zove voda, i da su za nju prikačeni

are hydrogen and oxygen atoms,

atomi vodonika i kiseonika,

and that's what water is.

i da je to voda.

Of course we don't.

Naravno da ne.

We understand, very easily, very straightforwardly,

Mi razumemo, vrlo lako, vrlo jasno,

that water is nothing more

da voda nije ništa drugo

than the hydrogen and oxygen molecules suitably arranged.

do molekula vodonika i kiseonika prikladno raspoređenih.

Everything else in the universe is the same.

Sve drugo u univerzumu je isto takvo.

There's no mystery about my watch, for example.

Nema misterije po pitanju mog sata, na primer.

We say the watch has a face, and hands,

Kažemo da sat ima naličje, kazaljke,

and a mechanism and a battery,

mehanizam i bateriju.

But what we really mean is,

Ali ono što stvarno mislimo je,

we don't think there is a thing called the watch

ne mislimo da postoji stvar koja se zove sat

to which we then attach all these bits.

za koju su prikačeni svi ti delovi.

We understand very clearly that you get the parts of the watch,

Razumemo vrlo jasno da kada imate delove sata,

you put them together, and you create a watch.

sastavite ih zajedno, i napravili ste sat.

Now if everything else in the universe is like this,

Ako je sve drugo u univerzumu ovakvo,

why are we different?

zašto smo mi drugačiji?

Why think of ourselves

Zašto mislimo o sebi

as somehow not just being a collection of all our parts,

kao da nekako nismo samo zbirka naših delova,

but somehow being a separate, permanent entity which has those parts?

već da smo nekako odvojeni, postojani entiteti koji imaju te delove?

Now this view is not particularly new, actually.

Ovo gledište nije naročito novo, u stvari.

It has quite a long lineage.

Ima prilično dugo poreklo.

You find it in Buddhism,

Naći ćete ga u budizmu,

you find it in 17th, 18th-century philosophy

u filozofiji XVII, XVIII veka

going through to the current day, people like Locke and Hume.

sve do današnjice, kod ljudi kao što su Lok i Hjum.

But interestingly, it's also a view

Ali zanimljivo, to je gledište koje takođe

increasingly being heard reinforced by neuroscience.

sve više osnažuje neurologija.

This is Paul Broks, he's a clinical neuropsychologist,

Ovo je Pol Broks, on je klinički neuropsiholog,

and he says this:

i on kaže sledeće:

"We have a deep intuition that there is a core,

"Mi imamo duboku intuiciju da postoji srž,

an essence there, and it's hard to shake off,

suština, i to je teško odbaciti,

probably impossible to shake off, I suspect.

verovatno nemoguće odbaciti, pretpostavljam.

But it's true that neuroscience shows that there is no centre in the brain

Ali istina je da neurologija pokazuje da ne postoji centar u mozgu

where things do all come together."

gde se sve stvari spajaju."

So when you look at the brain,

Dakle kada pogledate mozak,

and you look at how the brain makes possible a sense of self,

i pogledate kako mozak čini mogućim opažanje sebe,

you find that there isn't a central control spot in the brain.

otkrićete da ne postoji centralna kontrolna tačka u mozgu.

There is no kind of center where everything happens.

Ne postoji takva vrsta središta u kome se sve dešava.

There are lots of different processes in the brain,

Postoji mnogo različitih procesa u mozgu,

all of which operate, in a way, quite independently.

koji svi rade, na neki način, prilično zasebno.

But it's because of the way that they relate

Ali zbog načina na koji se povezuju,

that we get this sense of self.

imamo taj osećaj sebe.

The term I use in the book, I call it the ego trick.

Termin koji koristim u knjizi, nazivam ga ego trikom.

It's like a mechanical trick.

To je kao mehanički trik.

It's not that we don't exist,

Nije da ne postojimo,

it's just that the trick is to make us feel that inside of us

nego je trik u tome da učini da pomislimo da unutar nas

is something more unified than is really there.

postoji nešto jedinstvenije nego što zaista jeste.

Now you might think this is a worrying idea.

Možda ćete pomisliti da je to zabrinjavajuća ideja.

You might think that if it's true,

Možda ćete pomisliti da ako je to istina,

that for each one of us there is no abiding core of self,

da ne postoji trajno jezgro ličnosti za svakog od nas,

no permanent essence,

nema postojane suštine,

does that mean that really, the self is an illusion?

da li to znači da je zapravo ličnost iluzija?

Does it mean that we really don't exist?

Da li to znači da u stvari ne postojimo?

There is no real you.

Nema stvarnog vas.

Well, a lot of people actually do use this talk of illusion and so forth.

Pa, dosta ljudi zaista koristi ovu priču o iluziji i tome slično.

These are three psychologists, Thomas Metzinger, Bruce Hood,

Ovo su tri psihologa: Tomas Mecinger, Brus Hud,

Susan Blackmore,

Suzan Blekmor,

a lot of these people do talk the language of illusion,

mnogi od ovih ljudi zaista govore jezikom iluzije,

the self is an illusion, it's a fiction.

ličnost je iluzija, to je fikcija.

But I don't think this is a very helpful way of looking at it.

Ali ja ne mislim da je to naročito koristan način sagledavanja.

Vratimo se na sat.

Go back to the watch.

The watch isn't an illusion, because there is nothing to the watch

Sat nije iluzija, jer sat nije ništa drugo

other than a collection of its parts.

do zbirke njegovih delova.

In the same way, we're not illusions either.

Na isti način, ni mi nismo iluzije.

The fact that we are, in some ways, just this very, very complex collection,

Činjenica da smo, na neki način, samo te vrlo, vrlo kompleksne zbirke,

ordered collection of things,

uređene zbirke stvari,

does not mean we're not real.

ne znači da nismo stvarni.

I can give you a very sort of rough metaphor for this.

Mogu vam dati vrlo grubu metaforu za ovo.

Let's take something like a waterfall.

Uzmimo nešto kao vodopad.

These are the Iguazu Falls, in Argentina.

Ovo su Iguacu vodopadi u Argentini.

Now if you take something like this,

Ako uzmete nešto ovakvo,

you can appreciate the fact that in lots of ways,

možete da cenite činjenicu da na mnogo načina,

there's nothing permanent about this.

nema ničeg trajnog u vezi ovoga.

For one thing, it's always changing.

Kao prvo, uvek se menja.

The waters are always carving new channels.

Vode uvek usecaju nove kanale,

with changes and tides and the weather,

sa promenama struja i vremena,

some things dry up, new things are created.

neke stvari presuše, nove stvari se stvaraju.

Of course the water that flows through the waterfall

Naravno, voda koja protiče kroz vodopad

is different every single instance.

je različita u svakom trenutku.

But it doesn't mean that the Iguazu Falls are an illusion.

Ali to ne znači da su Iguacu vodopadi iluzija.

It doesn't mean it's not real.

To ne znači da nisu stvarni.

What it means is we have to understand what it is

Ono što znači je da moramo da razumemo da je to

as something which has a history,

nešto što ima istoriju,

has certain things that keep it together,

ima izvesne stvari koje ga održavaju kao jedno,

but it's a process, it's fluid, it's forever changing.

ali to je proces, to je nepostojano, uvek se menja.

Now that, I think, is a model for understanding ourselves,

To je, po meni, model za razumevanje nas samih,

and I think it's a liberating model.

i mislim da je to oslobađajući model.

Because if you think that you have this fixed, permanent essence,

Jer ako mislite da imate fiksiranu, trajnu suštinu,

which is always the same, throughout your life, no matter what,

koja je uvek ista, kroz ceo život, bez obzira na sve,

in a sense you're kind of trapped.

na neki način ste zarobljeni.

You're born with an essence,

Rođeni ste sa suštinom,

that's what you are until you die,

to je ono što jeste dok ne umrete,

if you believe in an afterlife, maybe you continue.

ako verujete u život posle smrti, možda nastavite.

But if you think of yourself as being, in a way,

Ali ako mislite o sebi, na neki način,

not a thing as such, but a kind of a process,

ne kao o takvoj stvari, već kao o nekakvom procesu,

something that is changing,

nečemu što se menja,

then I think that's quite liberating.

onda mislim da je to vrlo oslobađajuće.

Because unlike the the waterfalls,

Jer za razliku od vodopada,

we actually have the capacity to channel

mi zapravo imamo kapacitet da usmeravamo

the direction of our development for ourselves to a certain degree.

pravac našeg razvoja samostalno do izvesne mere.

Now we've got to be careful here, right?

Moramo ovde da budemo pažljivi, zar ne?

If you watch the X-Factor too much, you might buy into this idea

Ako previše gledate X-faktor, možda vas kupi ideja

that we can all be whatever we want to be.

da svi možemo da budemo šta god poželimo da budemo.

That's not true.

To nije istina.

I've heard some fantastic musicians this morning,

Čuo sam neke fantastične muzičare jutros,

and I am very confident that I could in no way be as good as them.

i vrlo sam siguran da nikako ne bih mogao biti dobar kao oni.

I could practice hard and maybe be good,

Mogao bih da vredno vežbam i možda budem dobar,

but I don't have that really natural ability.

ali nemam tu prirodnu sposobnost.

There are limits to what we can achieve.

Postoje ograničenja onoga što možemo postati.

There are limits to what we can make of ourselves.

Postoje ograničenja onoga što možemo učiniti od sebe.

But nevertheless, we do have this capacity

Ali ipak, imamo kapacitet

to, in a sense, shape ourselves.

da, na neki način, oblikujemo sebe.

The true self, as it were then,

Prava ličnost, kakva bi bila,

is not something that is just there for you to discover,

nije nešto što treba da otkrijete,

you don't sort of look into your soul and find your true self,

nećete se zagledati u svoju dušu i naći svoju pravu ličnost.

What you are partly doing, at least,

Ono što bar delimično činite

is actually creating your true self.

jeste da zapravo stvarate svoju pravu ličnost.

And this, I think, is very, very significant,

I ovo je, po meni, vrlo, vrlo značajno,

particularly at this stage of life you're at.

naročito u fazi života u kojoj ste.

You'll be aware of the fact

Bićete svesni činjenice

how much of you changed over recent years.

koliko ste se promenili poslednjih godina.

If you have any videos of yourself, three or four years ago,

Ako imate snimke sebe pre tri ili četiri godine,

you probably feel embarrassed because you don't recognize yourself.

verovatno ćete se postideti jer ne prepoznajete sebe.

So I want to get that message over, that what we need to do

Želim da prosledim tu poruku, da ono što treba činiti

is think about ourselves as things that we can shape,

je da razmišljamo o sebi kao o stvarima koje možemo oblikovati,

and channel and change.

usmeravati i menjati.

This is the Buddha, again:

Ovo je opet Buda:

"Well-makers lead the water,

"Kopači bunara sprovode vodu,

fletchers bend the arrow,

izrađivači strela zavijaju strele,

carpenters bend a log of wood,

stolari seku drvo,

wise people fashion themselves."

mudri ljudi kroje sebe."

To je ideja sa kojom vas želim ostaviti,

And that's the idea I want to leave you with,

that your true self is not something that you will have to go searching for,

da vaša prava ličnost nije nešto za čim treba tragati,

as a mystery, and maybe never ever find.

kao za misterijom i možda je nikada ni ne pronaći.

To the extent you have a true self,

U izvesnoj meri imate pravu ličnost,

it's something that you in part discover,

to je nešto što delom otkrivate,

but in part create.

a delom stvarate.

and that, I think, is a liberating and exciting prospect.

I to je, po meni, oslobađajuća i uzbudljiva perspektiva.

Thank you very much.

Hvala vam puno.