Refugees have the right to be protected | António Guterres

Translator: Carme Paz Reviewer: Xosé María Moreno

Bruno Giussani: Commissioner, thank you for coming to TED.

Bruno Giussani: Comisionado, grazas por vir ao TED.

António Guterres: Pleasure.

António Guterres: Un pracer.

BG: Let's start with a figure.

BG: Imos comezar cuns datos.

During 2015, almost one million refugees and migrants arrived in Europe

Durante 2015, case un millón de refuxiados e migrantes chegaron a Europa

from many different countries,

desde diferentes países,

of course, from Syria and Iraq, but also from Afghanistan

desde Siria e Iraq, claro, pero tamén desde Afganistán

and Bangladesh and Eritrea and elsewhere.

e Bangladesh e Eritrea e doutros sitios.

And there have been reactions of two different kinds:

E houbo reaccións de dous tipos:

welcoming parties and border fences.

festas de benvida e muros fronteirizos.

But I want to look at it a little bit

Pero eu quero prestarlle atención a isto

from the short-term and the long-term perspective.

desde un enfoque a curto e a longo prazo.

And the first question is very simple:

E a primeira pregunta é moi sinxela:

Why has the movement of refugees spiked so fast in the last six months?

Por que o movemento de refuxiados aumentou tanto nos últimos seis meses?

AG: Well, I think, basically, what triggered this huge increase

AG: Penso, basicamente, que o que provocou este enorme incremento

was the Syrian refugee group.

foi o grupo de refuxiados de Siria.

There has been an increased movement into Europe from Africa, from Asia,

Houbo un movemento cara a Europa de África, de Asia,

but slowly growing, and all of a sudden we had this massive increase

pero medrando pouco a pouco e, de súpeto, tivemos este incremento masivo

in the first months of this year.

nos primeiros meses deste ano.

Why? I think there are three reasons,

Por que? Penso que hai tres razóns,

two long-term ones and the trigger.

dúas a longo prazo e o desencadeante.

The long-term ones, in relation to Syrians,

As de longo prazo, en relación cos sirios,

is that hope is less and less clear for people.

son, primeiro, que cada vez a xente ten menos esperanza.

I mean, they look at their own country

É dicir, eles miran o seu propio país

and they don't see much hope to go back home,

e non teñen moita esperanza de volver á casa

because there is no political solution,

porque non hai solución política,

so there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

non hai luz á fin do túnel.

Second, the living conditions

Segundo, as condicións de vida

of the Syrians in the neighboring countries have been deteriorating.

dos sirios nos países veciños fóronse deteriorando.

We just had research with the World Bank,

Acabamos de facer unha investigación co Banco Mundial

and 87 percent of the Syrians in Jordan

e o 87 % dos sirios en Xordania

and 93 percent of the Syrians in Lebanon

e o 93 % dos sirios no Líbano

live below the national poverty lines.

viven por baixo do limiar nacional de pobreza.

Only half of the children go to school,

Só a metade dos nenos van á escola,

which means that people are living very badly.

o que quere dicir que a xente está vivindo moi mal.

Not only are they refugees, out of home,

Non só son refuxiados, fóra da súa casa,

not only have they suffered what they have suffered,

non só sufriron o que sufriron

but they are living in very, very dramatic conditions.

senón que están vivindo en condicións moi, moi dramáticas.

And then the trigger was when all of a sudden,

E o desencadeante foi cando, de súpeto,

international aid decreased.

a axuda internacional diminuíu.

The World Food Programme was forced, for lack of resources,

O Programa Mundial de Alimentos viuse obrigado, por falta de recursos,

to cut by 30 percent food support to the Syrian refugees.

a cortar o 30 % do apoio alimentario para os refuxiados sirios.

They're not allowed to work,

Como non lles deixan traballar

so they are totally dependent on international support,

dependen totalmente do apoio internacional

and they felt, "The world is abandoning us."

e eles sentiron "O mundo estanos abandonando."

And that, in my opinion, was the trigger.

E iso, na miña opinión, foi o desencadeante.

All of a sudden, there was a rush,

De repente, houbo présa

and people started to move in large numbers

e a xente comezou a moverse en gran cantidade

and, to be absolutely honest,

e, para ser totalmente sincero,

if I had been in the same situation

se eu estivese na mesma situación

and I would have been brave enough to do it,

e fose valente dabondo para facelo,

I think I would have done the same.

penso que faría o mesmo.

BG: But I think what surprised many people is it's not only sudden,

BG: Pero penso que o que sorprendeu a moita xente é non só que fose súbito

but it wasn't supposed to be sudden.

senón que se supoñía que non debía ser súbito.

The war in Syria has been happening for five years.

A guerra en Siria duraba cinco anos.

Millions of refugees are in camps and villages and towns around Syria.

Millóns de refuxiados están en campos e aldeas e cidades ao redor de Siria.

You have yourself warned about the situation

Vostede mesmo alertou da situación

and about the consequences of a breakdown of Libya, for example,

e das consecuencias dun colapso en Libia, por exemplo,

and yet Europe looked totally unprepared.

e aínda así Europa parecía totalmente desprevida.

AG: Well, unprepared because divided,

AG: Ben, desprevida a causa da división

and when you are divided, you don't want to recognize the reality.

e cando estás dividida non queres recoñecer a realidade.

You prefer to postpone decisions,

Prefires pospoñer as decisións

because you do not have the capacity to make them.

porque non tes capacidade para tomalas.

And the proof is that even when the spike occurred,

E a proba é que, incluso cando o o aumento ocorreu,

Europe remained divided

Europa permaneceu dividida

and was unable to put in place a mechanism to manage the situation.

e foi incapaz de poñer en marcha un mecanismo para xestionar a situación.

You talk about one million people.

Fala de preto dun millón de persoas.

It looks enormous,

Parece unha enormidade,

but the population of the European Union is 550 million people,

pero a poboación da Unión Europea é de 550 millóns de persoas,

which means we are talking about one per every [550] Europeans.

o que significa que estamos falando dun por cada 2000 europeos.

Now, in Lebanon, we have one refugee per three Lebanese.

Agora, no Líbano, temos un refuxiado por cada tres libaneses.

And Lebanon? Struggling, of course, but it's managing.

E o Líbano? Loitando, por suposto, pero estao xestionando.

So, the question is: is this something that could have been managed

Así que a cuestión é: isto é algo que podería ser xestionado

if -- not mentioning the most important thing,

se --sen mencionar o máis importante,

which would have been addressing the root causes,

que sería dirixírmonos ás causas profundas,

but forgetting about root causes for now,

pero esquecendo as causas por agora,

looking at the phenomenon as it is --

mirando o fenómeno como é--

if Europe were able to come together in solidarity

se Europa fose quen de unirse na solidariedade

to create an adequate reception capacity of entry points?

para crear unha adecuada capacidade de recepción nos puntos de entrada?

But for that, the countries at entry points need to be massively supported,

Pero, para iso, os países polos que entran teñen que ter un enorme apoio

and then screening the people with security checks

e despois a avaliación da xente con comprobacións de seguridade

and all the other mechanisms,

e todos os outros mecanismos,

distributing those that are coming into all European countries,

distribuíndo os que están chegando en todos os países de Europa

according to the possibilities of each country.

de acordo coas posibilidades de cada país.

I mean, if you look at the relocation program

É dicir, se miras o programa de recolocación

that was approved by the Commission, always too little too late,

que foi aprobado pola Comisión, sempre moi pouco e moi tarde

or by the Council, too little too late --

ou polo Consello, moi pequeno e moi tarde...

BG: It's already breaking down.

BG: Xa está colapsando.

AG: My country is supposed to receive four thousand.

AG: O meu país suponse que ten que recibir catro mil.

Catro mil en Portugal non significa nada.

Four thousand in Portugal means nothing.

So this is perfectly manageable if it is managed,

Así que é perfectamente manexable se se manexa,

but in the present circumstances, the pressure is at the point of entry,

pero nas actuais circunstancias a presión está no punto de entrada,

and then, as people move in this chaotic way through the Balkans,

e despois, cando a xente se move no caótico camiño a través dos Balcáns,

then they come to Germany, Sweden, basically, and Austria.

van a Alemaña, Suecia, basicamente, e Austria.

They are the three countries that are, in the end, receiving the refugees.

Son os tres países que están, ao final, recibindo os refuxiados.

The rest of Europe is looking without doing much.

O resto de Europa está mirando sen facer moito.

BG: Let me try to bring up three questions,

BG: Déixeme traer aquí tres cuestións,

playing a bit devil's advocate.

facendo de avogado do diaño.

I'll try to ask them, make them blunt.

Intentarei preguntalas sen rodeos.

But I think the questions are very present

Pero creo que son preguntas moi presentes

in the minds of many people in Europe right now,

na mente de moita xente en Europa neste momento.

The first, of course, is about numbers.

A primeira, claro, ten que ver cos números.

You say 550 million versus one million is not much, but realistically,

Di que 550 millóns comparados cun millón, non é moito, pero sendo realistas,

how many people can Europe take?

cantas persoas pode acoller Europa?

AG: Well, that is a question that has no answer,

AG: Ben, esa é unha cuestión que non ten resposta

because refugees have the right to be protected.

porque os refuxiados teñen o dereito a seren protexidos.

And there is such a thing as international law,

E hai unha cousa que é o dereito internacional

so there is no way you can say, "I take 10,000 and that's finished."

así que non hai maneira de poder dicir "Eu collo 10.000 e acabouse."

I remind you of one thing:

Lémbrolle unha cousa:

in Turkey, at the beginning of the crisis, I remember one minister saying,

en Turquía, ao comezo da crise, lembro un ministro dicindo

"Turkey will be able to receive up to 100,000 people."

"Turquía poderá recibir máis de 100.000 persoas."

Turkey has now two million three-hundred thousand

Turquía ten agora dous millóns trescentas mil

or something of the sort, if you count all refugees.

ou algo así se se contan todos os refuxiados.

So I don't think it's fair to say how many we can take.

Así que non creo que sexa xusto dicir cantas persoas podemos acoller.

What it is fair to say is: how we can we organize ourselves

O que é xusto é dicir: como podemos organizarnos

to assume our international responsibilities?

para asumir as nosas responsabilidades internacionais?

And Europe has not been able to do so,

E Europa non foi capaz de facelo

because basically, Europe is divided because there is no solidarity

porque, basicamente, Europa está dividida porque non hai solidariedade

in the European project.

no proxecto europeo.

And it's not only about refugees; there are many other areas.

E non só ten que ver con refuxiados; hai outras moitas áreas.

E sexamos honestos, este é o momento no que necesitamos máis Europa

And let's be honest, this is the moment in which we need more Europe

instead of less Europe.

en lugar de menos Europa.

But as the public less and less believes in European institutions,

Pero como o público cre cada vez menos nas institucións europeas

it is also each time more difficult to convince the public

é tamén cada vez máis difícil convencelo

de que precisamos máis Europa para resolver estes problemas.

that we need more Europe to solve these problems.

BG: We seem to be at the point

BG: Parece que estamos no punto

where the numbers turn into political shifts, particularly domestically.

en que os números levan a cambios políticos, sobre todo nacionais.

We saw it again this weekend in France,

Vímolo esta fin de semana en Francia,

but we have seen it over and over in many countries:

pero xa o vimos unha e outra vez en moitos países:

in Poland and in Denmark and in Switzerland and elsewhere,

en Polonia e en Dinamarca e en Suíza e noutros lugares,

where the mood changes radically because of the numbers,

onde o estado de ánimo cambia radicalmente por causa dos números

although they are not very significant in absolute numbers.

aínda que non son moi significativos en valores absolutos.

The Prime Minister of --

O Primeiro Ministro de...

AG: But, if I may, on these:

AG: Pero se se me permite, nisto:

I mean, what does a European see at home

Quero dicir, que ve un europeo na súa casa

in a village where there are no migrants?

nunha aldea onde non hai migrantes?

What a European sees is, on television,

O que ve un europeo, na televisión,

every single day, a few months ago, opening the news every single day,

cada día, desde hai meses, abrindo os telexornais cada día,

a crowd coming, uncontrolled,

unha multitude que vén, descontrolada,

moving from border to border,

movéndose de fronteira a fronteira,

and the images on television were of hundreds

e as imaxes na televisión eran de centos

or thousands of people moving.

ou miles de persoas desprazándose.

And the idea is that nobody is taking care of it --

E a idea é que ninguén está tendo conta disto...

this is happening without any kind of management.

isto é o que ocorre sen ningún tipo de xestión.

And so their idea was, "They are coming to my village."

E así a súa idea sería "Van chegar á miña aldea."

So there was this completely false idea that Europe was being invaded

Así xurdiu esta idea completamente falsa de que Europa estaba sendo invadida

and our way of life is going to change, and everything will --

e o noso estilo de vida ía cambiar, e todo será...

And the problem is that if this had been properly managed,

E o problema é que se isto se xestionase ben,

if people had been properly received,

se a xente, de forma axeitada, fose recibida,

welcomed, sheltered at point of entry, screened at point of entry,

benvida, acollida e avaliada no punto de entrada,

and the moved by plane to different European countries,

e trasladada en avión a diferentes países europeos

this would not have scared people.

isto non asustaría a poboación.

But, unfortunately, we have a lot of people scared,

Pero, por desgraza, temos un montón de xente asustada

just because Europe was not able to do the job properly.

só porque Europa non foi quen de facer o traballo con xeito.

BG: But there are villages in Germany

BG: Pero hai aldeas en Alemaña

with 300 inhabitants and 1,000 refugees.

con 300 habitantes e 1000 refuxiados.

So, what's your position?

Así que, cal é a súa posición?

How do you imagine these people reacting?

Como imaxina a reacción destas persoas?

AG: If there would be a proper management of the situation

AG: Se houbese unha xestión adecuada da situación

and the proper distribution of people all over Europe,

e unha distribución adecuada da xente por toda Europa

you would always have the percentage that I mentioned:

teríamos sempre a porcentaxe que xa mencionei:

one per each 2,000.

un por cada 2000.

It is because things are not properly managed

Como as cousas non se xestionaron ben

that in the end we have situations

acabamos tendo situacións

that are totally impossible to live with, and of course if you have a village --

coas que é totalmente imposible vivir e por suposto se Vde. ten unha aldea...

in Lebanon, there are many villages

no Líbano, hai moitas aldeas

that have more Syrians than Lebanese; Lebanon has been living with that.

que teñen máis sirios que libaneses; o Líbano está vivindo con iso.

I'm not asking for the same to happen in Europe,

Non estou pedindo que pase o mesmo en Europa,

for all European villages to have more refugees than inhabitants.

que todas as aldeas europeas teñan máis refuxiados que habitantes.

What I am asking is for Europe to do the job properly,

O que pido é que Europa faga ben o seu traballo

and to be able to organize itself to receive people

e que sexa capaz de organizarse para recibir xente

as other countries in the world were forced to do in the past.

como outros países no mundo se viron obrigados a facelo antes.

BG: So, if you look at the global situation not only at Europe --

BG: Así, se observamos a situación global, non só Europa...

(Applause)

(Aplauso)

BG: Si!

BG: Yes!

(Aplauso)

(Applause)

BG: If you look at the global situation, so, not only at Europe,

BG: Se observamos a situación global, non só Europa,

I know you can make a long list of countries

eu sei que se pode facer unha lista longa de países

that are not really stepping up,

que realmente non se están ofrecendo para axudar,

but I'm more interested in the other part --

pero estou máis interesado na outra parte...

is there somebody who's doing the right thing?

hai alguén que estea facendo o correcto?

AG: Well, 86 percent of the refugees in the world

AG: Ben, o 86 % dos refuxiados no mundo

are in the developing world.

están nos países en desenvolvemento.

And if you look at countries like Ethiopia --

E se miramos os países como Etiopía...

Ethiopia has received more than 600,000 refugees.

Etiopía recibiu máis de 600.000 refuxiados.

All the borders in Ethiopia are open.

Todas as súas fronteiras están abertas.

And they have, as a policy,

E teñen, como política,

they call the "people to people" policy that every refugee should be received.

o que chaman a política de "pobo a pobo", que cada refuxiado debería ser recibido.

And they have South Sudanese,

E teñen xente de Sudán do Sur,

they have Sudanese, they have Somalis.

teñen sudaneses, somalís.

They have all the neighbors.

Teñen todos os veciños.

They have Eritreans.

Teñen eritreos.

And, in general,

E, en xeral,

African countries are extremely welcoming of refugees coming,

os países africanos son moi acolledores cos refuxiados,

and I would say that in the Middle East

e eu diría o mesmo para o Oriente Medio

and in Asia, we have seen a tendency for borders to be open.

e Asia, vimos unha tendencia a abrir as fronteiras.

Now we see some problems with the Syrian situation,

Agora vemos algúns problemas coa situación siria

as the Syrian situation evolved into also a major security crisis,

ao evolucionar esta cara a unha grave crise de seguridade,

but the truth is that for a large period,

pero é certo que, durante un longo período

todas as fronteiras en Oriente Medio estaban abertas.

all borders in the Middle East were open.

The truth is that for Afghans,

Certo é que, para os afgáns,

the borders of Pakistan and Iran were open for, at the time,

as fronteiras de Paquistán e Irán estaban abertas

six million Afghans that came.

para os seis millóns de afgáns que chegaron.

So I would say that even today, the trend in the developing world

Así que eu diría que, mesmo hoxe, a tendencia no mundo en desenvolvemento

has been for borders to be open.

foi a de abrir as fronteiras.

The trend in the developed world is for these questions to become

A tendencia no mundo desenvolvido é a de que estas cuestións se volvan

more and more complex,

cada vez máis complexas,

especially when there is, in the public opinion,

especialmente cando hai, na opinión pública,

a mixture of discussions between refugee protections on one side

unha mestura de discusións entre a protección de refuxiados por unha banda

and security questions -- in my opinion, misinterpreted -- on the other side.

e as cuestións de seguridade --para min mal interpretadas-- pola outra banda.

BG: We'll come back to that too,

BG: Volveremos a iso,

but you mentioned the cutting of funding and the vouchers

pero mencionou os recortes no financiamento e nos vales

from the World Food Programme.

do Programa Mundial de Alimentos.

That reflects the general underfunding of the organizations

Iso amosa que en xeral as organizacións que traballan nestes temas

working on these issues.

están infrafinanciadas.

Now that the world seems to have woken up,

Agora que o mundo parece que espertou,

are you getting more funding and more support,

están conseguindo máis orzamento e máis apoio

or it's still the same?

ou é aínda o mesmo?

AG: We are getting more support.

AG: Estamos conseguindo máis apoio.

I would say that we are coming close to the levels of last year.

Eu diría que estamos chegando preto dos niveis do último ano.

We were much worse during the summer.

Estivemos moito peor durante o verán.

But that is clearly insufficient to address the needs of the people

Pero é claramente insuficiente para abordar as necesidades da xente

and address the needs of the countries

e abordar as necesidades dos países

that are supporting the people.

que están apoiando a xente.

E aquí temos unha revisión básica dos criterios, dos obxectivos,

And here we have a basic review of the criteria, the objectives,

the priorities of development cooperation that is required.

das prioridades da cooperación para o desenvolvemento.

For instance, Lebanon and Jordan are middle-income countries.

Por exemplo, o Líbano e Xordania son países de renda media.

Because they are middle-income countries,

Como son países de renda media

they cannot receive soft loans or grants from the World Bank.

non poden recibir créditos brandos

ou axudas do Banco Mundial.

Now, today this doesn't make any sense,

Agora, isto non ten ningún sentido

because they are providing a global public good.

porque están provendo un ben público global.

They have millions of refugees there,

Teñen millóns de refuxiados alí

and to be honest, they are pillars of stability in the region,

e, para ser honesto, son piares de estabilidade na rexión,

with all the difficulties they face,

con todas as dificultades que afrontan,

and the first line of defense of our collective security.

e a primeira liña de defensa da nosa seguridade colectiva.

So it doesn't make sense

Así que non ten sentido

that these countries are not a first priority

que eses países non sexan prioritarios

in development cooperation policies.

nas políticas de cooperación ao desenvolvemento.

And they are not.

E non o son.

And not only do the refugees live in very dramatic circumstances

E non só os refuxiados viven en circunstancias moi dramáticas

inside those countries,

nestes países

but the local communities themselves are suffering,

senón que as comunidades locais tamén están sufrindo

because salaries went down,

porque os salarios baixaron,

because there are more unemployed,

porque hai máis desempregados,

because prices and rents went up.

porque os prezos e os alugamentos subiron.

And, of course, if you look at today's situation

E, por suposto, se mira a situación actual

of the indicators in these countries,

dos indicadores nestes países.

it is clear that, especially their poor groups of the population,

está claro que, especialmente os grupos pobres de poboación,

are living worse and worse because of the crisis they are facing.

están vivindo cada vez peor pola crise á que se enfrontan.

BG: Who should be providing this support?

BG: Quen debería estar dando este apoio?

Country by country, international organizations, the European Union?

País a país, organizacións internacionais, a Unión Europea?

Who should be coming up with this support?

Quen debería dar este apoio?

AG: We need to join all efforts.

AG: Debemos unir todos os esforzos.

It's clear that bilateral cooperation is essential.

Está claro que a cooperación bilateral é esencial.

It's clear that multilateral cooperation is essential.

Que a cooperación multilateral é esencial.

It's clear that international financial institutions should have flexibility

Que as institucións financeiras internacionais deben ser flexibles

in order to be able to invest more massively

para poderen investir a grande escala

in support to these countries.

no apoio destes países.

We need to combine all the instruments and to understand that today,

Necesitamos combinar todos os instrumentos e entender que hoxe,

in protracted situations, at a certain moment,

en situacións prolongadas, en certos momentos,

that it doesn't make sense anymore to make a distinction

xa non ten sentido facer unha distinción

between humanitarian aid and development aid

entre axuda humanitaria e axuda para o desenvolvemento

or development processes.

ou procesos de desenvolvemento.

Because you are talking about children in school,

Porque estamos falando de nenos na escola,

you are talking about health,

estamos falando de saúde,

you are talking about infrastructure that is overcrowded.

estamos falando de infraestruturas que están masificadas.

You are talking about things that require a long-term perspective,

Estamos falando de cousas que requiren enfques a longo prazo,

a development perspective

un enfoque de desenvolvemento

and not only an emergency humanitarian aid perspective.

e non só un de axuda humanitaria de emerxencia.

BG: I would like your comment on something

BG: Gustaríame que comentase algo

that was in newspapers this morning.

que apareceu nos xornais esta mañá.

It is a statement made by the current front-runner

É unha declaración feita polo actual candidato principal

for the Republican nomination for US President, Donald Trump.

para a candidatura republicana á presidencia de EE.UU., Donald Trump.

Yesterday, he said this.

Onte dixo isto:

(Laughter)

(Risos)

No, listen to this. It's interesting.

Non, escoiten isto. É interesante.

I quote: "I am calling for a total and complete shutdown

Cito: "Apelo a unha total e completa cancelación

of Muslims entering the US,

da entrada de musulmáns nos EE.UU.

until our country's representatives can figure out what's going on."

ata que os representantes do noso país poidan determinar que está pasando."

How do you react to that?

Como reacciona a isto?

AG: Well, it's not only Donald Trump.

AG: Ben, non é só Donald Trump.

We have seen several people around the world

Vimos moitas persoas ao redor do mundo

with political responsibility saying, for instance,

con responsabilidade política dicindo, por exemplo,

that Muslims refugees should not be received.

que non se deberían recibir refuxiados musulmáns.

And the reason why they say this

E a razón pola que o din

is because they think that by doing or saying this,

é porque cren que ao dicir ou facer isto,

they are protecting the security of their countries.

están protexendo a seguridade dos seus países.

Now, I've been in government.

Eu estiven no goberno.

I am very keen on the need for governments

Son moi partidario da necesidade dos gobernos

to protect the security of their countries

de protexer a seguridade dos seus países

and their people.

e da súa xente.

But if you say, like that,

Pero se se di, algo así,

in the US or in any European country,

nos EE.UU. ou en calquera país europeo,

"We are going to close our doors to Muslim refugees,"

"Imos pecharlles as portas aos refuxiados musulmáns"

what you are saying is the best possible help

o que se está dicindo é a mellor axuda posible

for the propaganda of terrorist organizations.

para a propaganda de organizacións terroristas.

Because what you are saying --

Porque o que se di...

(Applause)

(Aplauso)

What you are saying will be heard by all the Muslims in your own country,

O que se di será escoitado por todos os musulmáns no noso propio país,

and it will pave the way for the recruitment

e preparará o camiño para o recrutamento

and the mechanisms that, through technology,

e os mecanismos que, a través da tecnoloxía,

Daesh and al-Nusra, al-Qaeda, and all those other groups

Daesh e al-Nusra, al-Qaeda e todos os outros grupos

are today penetrating in our societies.

introducen nas nosas sociedades.

And it's just telling them, "You are right, we are against you."

E estamos dicíndolles: "Tedes razón, estamos na vosa contra."

So obviously, this is creating in societies that are all multiethnic,

Así que, obviamente, isto crea, en sociedades que son multiétnicas,

multi-religious, multicultural,

multirrelixiosas, multiculturais,

this is creating a situation in which, really,

isto crea unha situación na que, realmente,

it is much easier for the propaganda of these terrorist organizations

é moito máis fácil que a propaganda destas organizacións terroristas

to be effective in recruiting people for terror acts

sexa eficaz ao recrutaren persoas para actos de terror

within the countries where these kinds of sentences are expressed.

nos países onde se fan este tipo de declaracións.

BG: Have the recent attacks in Paris and the reactions to them

BG: Os recentes ataques en París e as reaccións que provocaron,

made your job more difficult?

fixeron máis difícil o seu traballo?

AG: Undoubtedly.

AG: Sen dúbida.

BG: In what sense?

BG: En que sentido?

AG: In the sense that, I mean, for many people the first reaction

AG: No sentido de que, para moita xente, a primeira reacción

in relation to these kinds of terrorist attacks is: close all borders --

en relación a estes ataques terroristas é pechar todas as fronteiras,

not understanding that the terrorist problem in Europe is largely homegrown.

sen entender que o terrorismo en Europa é totalmente autóctono.

We have thousands and thousands of European fighters in Syria and in Iraq,

Temos miles e miles de combatentes europeos en Siria e en Iraq,

so this is not something that you solve by just not allowing Syrians to come in.

así que isto non se pode resolver simplemente impedindo que o sirios veñan.

And I must say, I am convinced

E teño que dicir, estou convencido,

that the passport that appeared,

de que o pasaporte que apareceu,

I believe, was put by the person who has blown --

eu penso, foi posto pola persoa que se detonou...

BG: -- himself up, yeah.

BG: A si mesmo, si.

AG: [I believe] it was on purpose,

AG: (Eu penso) que foi á mantenta,

because part of the strategies of Daesh is against refugees,

porque parte da estratexia de Daesh é ir contra os refuxiados,

because they see refugees as people that should be with the caliphate

porque os ven como persoas que deberían estar co califato

and are fleeing to the crusaders.

e están fuxindo desas cruzadas.

And I think that is part of Daesh's strategy to make Europe react,

E eu penso que é parte da estratexia de Daesh para facer que Europa reaccione,

closing its doors to Muslim refugees

pechándolles as portas aos refuxiados musulmáns

and having an hostility towards Muslims inside Europe,

e mantendo unha hostilidade cara aos musulmáns en Europa,

exactly to facilitate Daesh's work.

exactamente para facilitarlle o traballo a Daesh.

And my deep belief is that it was not the refugee movement

E creo profundamente que non foi o movemento refuxiado

that triggered terrorism.

o que desencadeou o terrorismo.

I think, as I said,

Penso, como dixen,

essentially terrorism in Europe is today a homegrown movement

que, esencialmente, o terrorismo en Europa é hoxe un movemento autóctono

in relation to the global situation that we are facing,

en relación coa situación global á que nos estamos enfrontando

and what we need is exactly to prove these groups wrong,

e o que necesitamos é exactamente probar que eses grupos se equivocan,

by welcoming and integrating effectively

dándolles a benvida e integrando eficazmente

those that are coming from that part of the world.

aos que están chegando desa parte do mundo.

And another thing that I believe is that to a large extent,

E outra cousa que eu creo é que, ata certo punto,

what we are today paying for in Europe

o que estamos pagando agora en Europa

is the failures of integration models

é o fracaso de modelos de integración

that didn't work in the '60s, in the '70s, in the '80s,

que non funcionaron nos anos 60 nin nos 70 nin nos 80

in relation to big migration flows that took place at that time

en relación cos grandes fluxos migratorios daquel tempo

and generated what is today in many of the people, for instance,

e xeraron o que hoxe é, para moitas persoas, por exemplo,

of the second generation of communities,

das segundas xeracións das comunidades

a situation of feeling marginalized,

un sentimento de marxinalización,

having no jobs,

sen traballo,

having improper education,

sen unha boa educación,

living in some of the neighborhoods that are not adequately provided

vivindo en barrios que non están ben dotados

by public infrastructure.

de infraestruturas públicas.

And this kind of uneasiness, sometimes even anger,

E este tipo de malestar, ás veces, incluso de xenreira

that exists in this second generation

que existe nesta segunda xeración

is largely due to the failure of integration policies,

débese, en boa parte, ao fracaso das políticas de integración,

to the failure of what should have been a much stronger investment

ao fracaso do que debería ser un investimento moito máis forte

in creating the conditions for people to live together and respect each other.

en crear as condicións para que as persoas vivan xuntas e se respecten.

For me it is clear.

Para min, está claro.

(Applause)

(Aplausos)

For me it is clear that all societies will be multiethnic, multicultural,

Teño claro que todas as sociedades deben ser multiétnicas, multiculturais,

multi-religious in the future.

multirrelixiosas no futuro.

To try to avoid it is, in my opinion, impossible.

Intentar evitar isto, na miña opinión, é imposible.

And for me it's a good thing that they will be like that,

E para min, é bo que sexa así,

but I also recognize that, for that to work properly,

pero eu tamén recoñezo que, para que funcione ben,

you need a huge investment

cómpre un enorme investimento

in the social cohesion of your own societies.

na cohesión social das nosas sociedades.

And Europe, to a large extent, failed in that investment

E Europa, ata certo punto, fracasou nese investimento

in the past few decades.

nas pasadas décadas.

BG: Question: You are stepping down from your job at the end of the year,

BG: Vai deixar o seu cargo ao final do ano,

after 10 years.

despois de dez anos.

If you look back at 2005,

Se mira atrás ata o 2005,

when you entered that office for the first time, what do you see?

cando vostede entrou nese despacho a primeira vez, que ve?

AG: Well, look:

AG: Ben, mire:

In 2005, we were helping one million people go back home

En 2005, estabamos axudando un millón de persoas a volver á casa

in safety and dignity, because conflicts had ended.

con seguridade e dignidade, porque os conflitos acabaran.

Last year, we helped 124,000.

O último ano, axudamos 124.000.

In 2005, we had about 38 million people displaced by conflict in the world.

En 2005, tiñamos uns 38 millóns de persoas desprazadas por conflitos no mundo.

Today, we have more than 60 million.

Hoxe, temos máis de 60 millóns.

At that time, we had had, recently,

Nese momento, tiñamos, desde había pouco,

some conflicts that were solved.

algúns conflitos resoltos.

Now, we see a multiplication of new conflicts

Agora, vemos unha multiplicación de novos conflitos

and the old conflicts never died:

e os vellos conflitos que nunca morreron:

Afghanistan, Somalia, Democratic Republic of Congo.

Afganistán, Somalia, República Democrática do Congo.

It is clear that the world today is much more dangerous than it was.

Está claro que o mundo hoxe é moito máis perigoso do que era.

It is clear that the capacity of the international community

Está claro que a capacidade da comunidade internacional

to prevent conflicts and to timely solve them,

para previr conflitos e resolvelos a tempo

is, unfortunately, much worse than what it was 10 years ago.

é, por desgraza, moito peor que hai dez anos.

There are no clear power relations in the world,

Non hai relacións de poder claras no mundo,

no global governance mechanisms that work,

non hai mecanismos de goberno global que funcionen,

which means that we live in a situation

o que significa que vivimos nunha situación

where impunity and unpredictability tend to prevail, and that means

onde a impunidade e a imprevisibilidade tenden a prevalecer, e iso significa

that more and more people suffer,

que cada vez máis xente sofre,

namely those that are displaced by conflicts.

especialmente os desprazados polos conflitos.

BG: It's a tradition in American politics

BG: Hai unha tradición na política americana

that when a President leaves the Oval Office for the last time,

de que cando un presidente deixa o despacho oval por última vez,

he leaves a handwritten note on the desk for his successor

deixa no escritorio unha nota manuscrita para o seu sucesor

that walks in a couple of hours later.

que entrará dúas horas despois.

If you had to write such a note to your successor, Filippo Grandi,

Se tivese que escribir unha para o seu sucesor, Filippo Grandi,

what would you write?

que escribiría?

AG: Well, I don't think I would write any message.

AG: Ben, non creo que escribise ningunha mensaxe.

You know, one of the terrible things when one leaves an office

Sabes, unhas das cousas terribles cando un deixa o despacho

is to try to become the backseat driver,

é intentar converterse en condutor desde o asento de atrás,

always telling the new one what to do.

sempre dicíndolle ao novo o que ten que facer.

So that, I will not do.

Así que eu non o farei.

If I had to say something to him,

Se tivese que dicirlle algo,

it would be, "Be yourself, and do your best."

sería: "Sé ti mesmo, e faino o mellor que poidas."

BG: Commissioner, thank you for the job you do.

BG: Comisionado, grazas polo traballo que fai.

Thank you for coming to TED.

Grazas por vir ao TED.

(Applause)

(Aplauso)