Why Gender Equality Is Good for Everyone — Men Included | Michael Kimmel | TED Talks

Translator: Carme Paz Reviewer: Belén García Penerbosa

I'm here to recruit men to support gender equality.

Estou aquí para recrutar homes que apoien a igualdade de xénero.

(Cheers)

(Vivas)

Wait, wait. What?

Agardade, agardade. Que?

What do men have to do with gender equality?

Que teñen que ver os homes coa igualdade de xénero?

Gender equality is about women, right?

É unha cousa de mulleres, non?

I mean, the word gender is about women.

É dicir, a palabra xénero é cousa de mulleres.

Actually, I'm even here speaking as a middle class white man.

En realidade, estou falando como un home branco de clase media.

Now, I wasn't always a middle class white man.

Mais non sempre fun un home branco de clase media.

It all happened for me about 30 years ago when I was in graduate school,

Todo ocorreu hai 30 anos cando estaba na universidade.

and a bunch of us graduate students got together one day,

Un grupo de estudantes saímos un día

and we said, you know, there's an explosion

e dixemos: Hai unha morea

of writing and thinking in feminist theory,

de escritos e debates sobre teoría feminista,

but there's no courses yet.

pero aínda non hai cursos.

So we did what graduate students typically do in a situation like that.

E fixemos o que calquera estudante faría nesa situación.

We said, OK, let's have a study group.

Dixemos: "Ben, imos facer un grupo de estudo.

We'll read a text, we'll talk about it,

Imos ler un texto, falar del

we'll have a potluck dinner.

e organizar unha cea".

(Laughter)

(Risos)

So every week, 11 women and me got together.

Así que cada semana reuniámonos 11 mulleres e mais eu.

(Laughter)

(Risos)

We would read some text in feminist theory and have a conversation about it.

Liamos algún texto sobre teoría feminista e conversabamos sobre el.

And during one of our conversations,

E durante unha das nosas conversas,

I witnessed an interaction that changed my life forever.

fun testemuña de algo que cambiou a miña vida para sempre.

It was a conversation between two women.

Era unha conversa entre dúas mulleres.

One of the women was white, and one was black.

Unha das mulleres era branca e a outra era negra.

And the white woman said --

A muller branca dixo

this is going to sound very anachronistic now --

--isto vai soar moi anacrónico agora--

the white woman said, "All women face the same oppression as women.

a muller branca dixo: "Todas as mulleres sofren a mesma opresión como mulleres.

All women are similarly situated in patriarchy,

Todas as mulleres sofren o mesmo patriarcado

and therefore all women have a kind of intuitive solidarity or sisterhood."

e, polo tanto, todas as mulleres teñen unha irmandade instintiva."

And the black woman said, "I'm not so sure.

E a muller negra dixo: "Non estou tan segura.

Let me ask you a question."

Deixa que che faga unha pregunta."

So the black woman says to the white woman,

Entón a muller negra dille á muller branca:

"When you wake up in the morning and you look in the mirror,

"Cando espertas pola mañá e te miras no espello,

what do you see?"

que ves?"

E a muller branca dixo: "Vexo unha muller."

And the white woman said, "I see a woman."

And the black woman said, "You see, that's the problem for me.

E a muller negra dixo: "Ves? Ese é o problema que teño eu.

Porque cando eu esperto pola mañá e me miro no espello

Because when I wake up in the morning and I look in the mirror," she said,

"I see a black woman.

vexo unha muller negra.

To me, race is visible. But to you, race is invisible. You don't see it."

Para min, a raza é visible. Pero para ti, a raza é invisible. Ti non a ves."

And then she said something really startling.

E logo dixo algo abraiante:

She said, "That's how privilege works.

"Así é como funcionan os privilexios.

Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

O privilexio é invisible para quen o ten."

It is a luxury, I will say to the white people sitting in this room,

É un luxo, dígolle á xente branca que está nesta sala,

not to have to think about race every split second of our lives.

non ter que pensar sobre a raza cada segundo das nosas vidas.

Privilege is invisible to those who have it.

O privilexio é invisible para quen o ten.

Now remember, I was the only man in this group,

Lembrade, eu era o único home neste grupo,

so when I witnessed this, I went, "Oh no."

así que cando oín isto, pensei: "Oh, non."

(Laughter)

(Risos)

And somebody said, "Well what was that reaction?"

E alguén dixo: "Que foi esa reacción?"

And I said, "Well, when I wake up in the morning and I look in the mirror,

E dixen: "Ben, cando esperto pola mañá e me miro no espello,

I see a human being.

vexo un ser humano.

I'm kind of the generic person.

Son unha persoa normal.

You know, I'm a middle class white man. I have no race, no class, no gender.

Xa sabedes, un home branco de clase media. Non teño raza, nin clase, nin xénero.

I'm universally generalizable."

Son universalmente xeneralizable."

(Laughter)

(Risos)

So I like to think that was the moment I became a middle class white man,

Gústame pensar que aí me convertín nun home branco de clase media

that class and race and gender were not about other people,

e que a clase, a raza e o xénero xa non eran cousas doutras persoas,

they were about me.

tamén me atinxían a min.

I had to start thinking about them,

Tiven que empezar a pensar sobre iso,

and it had been privilege that had kept it invisible to me for so long.

e foi o privilexio o que o mantivo invisible durante tanto tempo.

Now, I wish I could tell you this story ends 30 years ago

Gustaríame poder dicir que esa historia acabou hai 30 anos

in that little discussion group,

nesa pequena discusión de grupo

but I was reminded of it quite recently at my university where I teach.

pero lembráronmo hai ben pouco na universidade onde ensino.

I have a colleague, and she and I both teach the sociology of gender course

Teño unha colega, e ela e eu ensinamos a socioloxía do curso de xénero

on alternate semesters.

en semestres alternos.

So she gives a guest lecture for me when I teach.

Ela dá unha charla para min cando eu dou clases.

I give a guest lecture for her when she teaches.

Eu dou unha charla para ela cando ela dá clases.

So I walk into her class to give a guest lecture,

Así que entrei na súa clase para dar a charla,

about 300 students in the room,

había máis ou menos 300 estudantes na sala,

and as I walk in, one of the students looks up and says,

e cando entro, un dos estudantes mira e di:

"Oh, finally, an objective opinion."

"Por fin, unha opinión obxectiva."

All that semester, whenever my colleague opened her mouth,

Durante todo ese semestre, cada vez que a miña colega abría a boca,

what my students saw was a woman.

o que vían os meus estudantes era unha muller.

I mean, if you were to say to my students,

É dicir, se lles dicía aos meus estudantes:

"There is structural inequality based on gender in the United States,"

"Hai unha desigualdade estrutural baseada no xénero nos EE. UU."

they'd say, "Well of course you'd say that.

Eles dirían: "É normal que digas iso.

You're a woman. You're biased."

Es muller. Estás condicionada."

When I say it, they go, "Wow, is that interesting.

Cando o digo eu, eles pensan "Uau, que interesante.

Is that going to be on the test? How do you spell 'structural'?"

Vai caer no exame? Como se escribe 'estrutural'?"

(Laughter)

(Risos)

So I hope you all can see,

Agardo que o poidades ver ben,

this is what objectivity looks like.

isto é ao que se asemella a obxectividade.

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Risos) (Aplausos)

Disembodied Western rationality.

Racionalidade occidental incorpórea.

(Laughter)

(Risos)

And that, by the way, is why I think men so often wear ties.

E por esa razón creo que os homes levan gravata.

(Laughter)

(Risos)

Because if you are going to embody disembodied Western rationality,

Porque se ti vas encarnar a racionalidade occidental incorpórea,

you need a signifier,

precisas un sinal,

and what could be a better signifier of disembodied Western rationality

e que mellor sinal da racionalidade occidental incorpórea

than a garment that at one end is a noose and the other end points to the genitals?

que unha prenda que nun extremo é un nó e no outro apunta aos xenitais?

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Risos) (Aplausos)

That is mind-body dualism right there.

Iso é puro dualismo mente-corpo.

So making gender visible to men

Así que facerlles visible o xénero aos homes

is the first step to engaging men to support gender equality.

é o primeiro paso para atraer homes que apoien a igualdade de xénero.

Cando os homes comezan a oír sobre a igualdade

Now, when men first hear about gender equality,

when they first start thinking about it,

cando comezan a pensar sobre iso,

they often think, many men think,

a miúdo pensan, moitos pensan,

well, that's right, that's fair, that's just,

ben, é correcto, xusto e equitativo,

that's the ethical imperative.

é o imperativo ético.

But not all men.

Pero non todos os homes.

Some men think -- the lightning bolt goes off,

Algúns homes pensan --acéndeselles a lámpada--

and they go, "Oh my God, yes, gender equality,"

e din: "Claro, si, igualdade de xénero,"

and they will immediately begin to mansplain to you your oppression.

e inmediatamente comezan a explicarche a túa propia opresión.

They see supporting gender equality something akin to the cavalry,

Ven o apoio á igualdade de xénero como unha chamada á cabalaría,

like, "Thanks very much for bringing this to our attention, ladies,

algo como "Grazas, señoras, por facernos reflexionar sobre isto,

we'll take it from here."

xa nos ocupamos nós."

This results in a syndrome that I like to call 'premature self-congratulation.'

Isto resulta nunha síndrome que denomino "autocomplacencia prematura."

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Risos) (Aplausos)

There's another group, though, that actively resists gender equality,

Aínda que hai outro grupo que se resiste activamente á igualdade de xénero,

that sees gender equality as something that is detrimental to men.

que ve a igualdade de xénero como algo que vai en detrimento dos homes.

I was on a TV talk show opposite four white men.

Eu estiven nun programa de entrevistas en fronte de catro homes brancos.

This is the beginning of the book I wrote, 'Angry White Men.'

Este é o comezo do libro que escribín, Angry White Men.

These were four angry white men

Estes eran catro homes brancos irados

who believed that they, white men in America,

que crían que eles, homes brancos en América,

were the victims of reverse discrimination in the workplace.

eran vítimas da discriminación positiva no traballo.

And they all told stories about how they were qualified for jobs,

E contaron historias de como estaban cualificados para traballos,

qualified for promotions,

cualificados para ascensos,

they didn't get them, they were really angry.

que non conseguiron, estaban moi anoxados.

And the reason I'm telling you this is I want you to hear the title

E cóntovos isto porque quero que oiades o título

of this particular show.

deste peculiar programa.

It was a quote from one of the men,

Era unha frase dun destes homes,

and the quote was,

e a frase era:

"A Black Woman Stole My Job."

"Unha muller negra roubou o meu traballo."

And they all told their stories,

E contaron as súas historias,

qualified for jobs, qualified for promotions,

cualificados para traballos e ascensos,

non o conseguiron, moi irados.

didn't get it, really angry.

And then it was my turn to speak,

E chegou a miña quenda para falar

and I said, "I have just one question for you guys,

e dixen: "Teño só unha pregunta para vós,

and it's about the title of the show,

e trata sobre o título do programa,

'A Black Woman Stole My Job.'

'Unha muller negra roubou o meu traballo.'

Actually, it's about one word in the title.

En realidade, é sobre unha soa palabra do título.

I want to know about the word 'my.'

Quero saber algo sobre a palabra meu.

Where did you get the idea it was your job?

De onde sacastes a idea de que era o voso traballo?

Why isn't the title of the show, 'A Black Woman Got the Job?'

Por que o título non é 'Unha muller negra conseguiu o traballo?'

or 'A Black Woman Got A Job?'"

ou 'Unha muller negra conseguiu un traballo'?

Because without confronting men's sense of entitlement,

Porque sen cuestionar ese sentimento dos homes de 'teren dereito',

I don't think we'll ever understand why so many men resist gender equality.

non creo que se entenda por que tantos homes se resisten á igualdade de xénero.

(Applause)

(Aplausos)

Look, we think this is a level playing field,

Mirade, pensamos que isto é un terreo de xogo equilibrado

so any policy that tilts it even a little bit,

así que calquera política que o incline un pouco,

we think, "Oh my God, water's rushing uphill.

pensamos: "Deus, a auga vai cara a arriba.

It's reverse discrimination against us."

É discriminación positiva contra nós."

(Laughter)

(Risos)

So let me be very clear:

Así que deixade que sexa moi claro:

white men in Europe and the United States

os homes brancos en Europa e nos EE. UU.

are the beneficiaries of the single greatest affirmative action program

son os beneficiarios do único gran programa de acción positiva

in the history of the world.

na historia do mundo.

It is called "the history of the world."

Chámase "a historia do mundo".

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Risos) (Aplausos)

So, now I've established some of the obstacles to engaging men,

Así que agora xa establecín algúns dos atrancos para atraer homes,

pero por que deberiamos apoiar a igualdade de xénero?

but why should we support gender equality?

Of course, it's fair, it's right and it's just.

Claro, é xusto, correcto e equitativo.

But more than that,

Pero é máis ca iso,

gender equality is also in our interest as men.

a igualdade de xénero tamén nos interesa como homes.

If you listen to what men say about what they want in their lives,

Se escoitades o que din os homes sobre o que queren nas súas vidas,

gender equality is actually a way for us to get the lives we want to live.

a igualdade de xénero é, en realidade, un xeito de acadar as vidas que queremos.

Gender equality is good for countries.

A igualdade de xénero é boa para os países.

It turns out, according to most studies,

Resulta que, de acordo coa maioría de estudos,

that those countries that are the most gender equal

os países que teñen maior igualdade de xénero

are also the countries that score highest on the happiness scale.

tamén son os países que puntúan mellor na escala da felicidade.

And that's not just because they're all in Europe.

E iso non é só porque estean todos en Europa.

(Laughter)

(Risos)

Even within Europe, those countries that are more gender equal

Mesmo en Europa, aqueles países que teñen máis igualdade de xénero

also have the highest levels of happiness.

tamén teñen os niveis máis altos de felicidade.

It is also good for companies.

Tamén é bo para as empresas.

Research by Catalyst and others has shown conclusively

Investigacións feitas por Catalyst e outros amosaron de xeito conclusivo

that the more gender-equal companies are,

que canta máis igualdade de xénero hai nas empresas

the better it is for workers,

mellor é para os traballadores,

the happier their labor force is.

a man de obra é máis feliz.

They have lower job turnover. They have lower levels of attrition.

Teñen menos cambios de emprego e menos niveis de abandono.

They have an easier time recruiting.

É máis fácil contratar xente.

They have higher rates of retention, higher job satisfaction,

O nivel de permanencia é alto e o grao de satisfacción maior,

higher rates of productivity.

con taxas de produtividade máis altas.

So the question I'm often asked in companies is,

As empresas pregúntanme a miúdo:

"Boy, this gender equality thing, that's really going to be expensive, huh?"

"Isto da igualdade de xénero, vai ser moi caro, non?"

E eu digo: "Non, de feito, o que tes que comezar a calcular

And I say, "Oh no, in fact, what you have to start calculating

is how much gender inequality is already costing you.

é canto vos está custando a desigualdade de xénero.

It is extremely expensive."

É extremadamente cara."

So it is good for business.

Así que é boa para o traballo.

And the other thing is, it's good for men.

E ademais, é boa para os homes.

It is good for the kind of lives we want to live,

É boa para o tipo de vidas que queremos vivir,

because young men especially have changed enormously,

porque os homes novos, especialmente, cambiaron moitísimo,

and they want to have lives that are animated

e queren ter vidas estimulantes

by terrific relationships with their children.

con relacións estupendas cos seus fillos.

They expect their partners, their spouses, their wives,

Agardan que as súas compañeiras, esposas, mulleres,

to work outside the home

traballen fóra da casa

and be just as committed to their careers as they are.

e estean tan comprometidas coa súa carreira coma eles.

I was talking, to give you an illustration of this change --

Estaba falando, para darvos unha mostra deste cambio,

Some of you may remember this.

algúns de vós lembraredes isto.

When I was a lot younger, there was a riddle that was posed to us.

Cando eu era moito máis novo, adoitaban propoñernos unha adiviña.

Some of you may wince to remember this riddle.

Algún de vós pode arreguizarse ao lembrar a adiviña.

This riddle went something like this.

Era algo así:

A man and his son are driving on the freeway,

Un home e o seu fillo van conducindo pola autovía

and they're in a terrible accident,

e teñen un grave accidente,

and the father is killed,

e o pai morre

and the son is brought to the hospital emergency room,

e levan o fillo a urxencias, a un hospital,

and as they're bringing the son into the hospital emergency room,

e cando meten o fillo en urxencias,

a persoa responsable do servizo médico ve o rapaz e di

the emergency room attending physician sees the boy and says,

"Oh, I can't treat him, that's my son."

"Ai, non podo tratalo, é o meu fillo."

Como é posible?

How is this possible?

We were flummoxed by this.

Isto pasmábanos.

We could not figure this out.

Non podiamos resolvelo.

(Laughter)

(Risos)

Well, I decided to do a little experiment with my 16-year old son.

Ben, decidín facer un pequeno experimento co meu fillo de 16 anos.

He had a bunch of his friends hanging out at the house

Estaba cun grupo de amizades na casa,

watching a game on TV recently.

vendo un partido na TV hai pouco.

So I decided I would pose this riddle to them,

Así que decidín expoñerlles esta adiviña,

just to see, to gauge the level of change.

só para ver, para calibrar o nivel de cambio.

Well, 16-year-old boys,

Ben, rapaces de 16 anos,

they immediately turned to me and said, "It's his mom." Right?

eles dixeron inmediatamente: "É a súa nai, non?"

No problem. Just like that.

Non houbo problema. Así de simple.

Except for my son, who said, "Well, he could have two dads."

Agás o meu fillo, que dixo: "Ben, podía ter dous pais."

(Laughter) (Applause)

(Risos) (Aplauso)

That's an index, an indicator of how things have changed.

Isto é un indicador de como as cousas mudaron.

Os homes máis novos agardan poder equilibrar traballo e familia.

Younger men today expect to be able to balance work and family.

They want to be dual-career, dual-carer couples.

Queren poder exercer ambos no traballo e na familia.

They want to be able to balance work and family with their partners.

Queren ser capaces de equilibrar traballo e familia coas súas parellas.

They want to be involved fathers.

Queren ser pais involucrados.

Now, it turns out

Agora, resulta que

that the more egalitarian our relationships,

canto máis igualitarias son as nosas relacións,

the happier both partners are.

máis felices son ambos os membros da parella.

Data from psychologists and sociologists are quite persuasive here.

Os datos da psicoloxía e da socioloxía son bastante convincentes.

I think we have the persuasive numbers, the data, to prove to men

Penso que temos números concluíntes, información, para probarlles aos homes

that gender equality is not a zero-sum game, but a win-win.

que a igualdade non vai de gañar ou perder senón de gañar sempre

Here's what the data show.

Isto é o que amosan os datos.

Now, when men begin the process of engaging

Agora, cando os homes comezan o proceso de equilibrar

with balancing work and family,

o traballo e a familia,

we often have two phrases that we use to describe what we do.

hai dúas frases que usamos a miúdo para describir o que facemos.

We pitch in and we help out.

Botamos unha man e axudamos.

(Laughter)

(Risos)

And I'm going to propose something a little bit more radical,

E vou propor algo un pouco máis radical,

one word: "share."

unha palabra: "compartir."

(Laughter)

(Risos)

Because here's what the data show:

Porque os datos amosan isto:

when men share housework and childcare,

se os homes comparten tarefas e coidado dos fillos,

their children do better in school.

aos fillos vailles mellor na escola.

Their children have lower rates of absenteeism,

Teñen menor nivel de absentismo,

higher rates of achievement.

taxas máis altas de logros.

They are less likely to be diagnosed with ADHD.

É menos probable que estean diagnosticados de TDAH.

They are less likely to see a child psychiatrist.

É menos probable que visiten un psiquiatra infantil.

They are less likely to be put on medication.

É menos probable que precisen medicación.

So when men share housework and childcare,

Así que cando os homes comparten tarefas e coidado dos fillos,

their children are happier and healthier,

os fillos son máis felices e sans,

and men want this.

e os homes queren isto.

When men share housework and childcare,

Se os homes comparten tarefas no fogar e coidan dos fillos

their wives are happier. Duh.

as súas esposas son máis felices. Obvio.

Not only that, their wives are healthier.

Non só iso, as súas esposas están máis sas.

Their wives are less likely to see a therapist,

Teñen menos probabilidades de ir a terapia,

less likely to be diagnosed with depression,

menos probabilidade de diagnose de depresión,

less likely to be put on medication, more likely to go to the gym,

menos probabilidade de ser medicadas, máis probabilidades de ir ao ximnasio,

report higher levels of marital satisfaction.

informan de niveis máis altos de satisfacción conxugal.

So when men share housework and childcare,

Se os homes comparten tarefas e coidado dos fillos,

their wives are happier and healthier,

as mulleres son máis felices e sas

and men certainly want this as well.

e os homes, por suposto, tamén queren isto.

When men share housework and childcare,

Se os homes comparten tarefas e coidado dos fillos,

the men are healthier.

están máis sans.

They smoke less, drink less, take recreational drugs less often.

Fuman menos, beben menos,

consomen drogas recreativas con menos frecuencia.

They are less likely to go to the ER

Teñen menos probabilidades de ir a urxencias

but more like to go to a doctor for routine screenings.

pero máis de ir ao médico por exames de rutina.

They are less likely to see a therapist,

Menos probabilidades de ir a terapia,

less likely to be diagnosed with depression,

menos probabilidade dunha diagnose de depresión,

less likely to be taking prescription medication.

menos probabilidade de tomar medicación.

So when men share housework and childcare,

Así que ao compartir tarefas e coidado dos fillos

the men are happier and healthier.

os homes son máis felices e están máis sans.

And who wouldn't want that?

E a quen non lle gusta isto?

And finally,

E finalmente,

when men share housework and childcare,

se os homes comparten tarefas e coidado dos fillos,

they have more sex.

teñen máis sexo.

(Laughter)

(Risos)

Now, of these four fascinating findings,

Ben, destes catro fascinantes descubrimentos,

cal supoñedes que puxo a revista Men's Health na portada?

which one do you think Men's Health magazine put on its cover?

(Laughter)

(Risos)

"Housework Makes Her Horny.

"O traballo do fogar fai que ela se excite.

(Not When She Does It.)"

(Menos cando o fai ela)"

(Risos)

(Laughter)

Now, I will say,

Ben, direi,

just to remind the men in the audience,

só para lembrarlles aos homes do público

que estes datos foron recollidos durante un longo período de tempo,

these data were collected over a really long period of time,

so I don't want listeners to say,

así que non quero que digan:

"Hmm, OK, I think I'll do the dishes tonight."

"Mmm, vale, penso que vou fregar os pratos esta noite."

These data were collected over a really long period of time.

Estes datos foron recollidos durante un longo período de tempo.

But I think it shows something important,

Pero creo que amosan algo importante,

that when Men's Health magazine put it on their cover,

cando a revista Men's Health o puxo na portada,

they also called, you'll love this, "Choreplay."

chamoulle, vaivos encantar, "Tarefas preliminares."

So, what we found is something really important,

Así que o que atopamos é algo moi importante,

that gender equality

que a igualdade de xénero

is in the interest of countries,

vai no interese de países,

of companies, and of men,

de empresas e de homes,

and their children and their partners,

e dos seus fillos e das súas parellas,

that gender equality is not a zero-sum game.

que a igualdade de xénero non é un xogo todo ou nada.

It's not a win-lose.

Non é un gañar ou perder.

It is a win-win for everyone.

É un gañar ou gañar para todo o mundo.

And what we also know

E tamén sabemos

is we cannot fully empower women and girls

que non podemos fortalecer totalmente as mulleres e as nenas

unless we engage boys and men.

a menos que involucremos aos rapaces e aos homes.

We know this.

Sabémolo.

And my position is

E a miña posición é

that men need the very things that women have identified

que os homes precisan as mesmas cousas que as mulleres descubriron

that they need to live the lives they say they want to live

que precisaban para vivir as vidas que din que queren vivir,

in order to live the lives that we say we want to live.

para vivir as vidas que dicimos que queremos vivir.

In 1915, on the eve of one of the great suffrage demonstrations

En 1915, na véspera dunha das grandes manifestacións sufraxistas

down Fifth Avenue in New York City,

pola Quinta Avenida en Nova York,

a writer in New York wrote an article in a magazine,

un escritor en Nova York escribiu nunha revista,

and the title of the article was,

un artigo titulado

"Feminism for Men."

"Feminismo para homes".

And this was the first line of that article:

E esta era a primeira liña daquel artigo:

"Feminism will make it possible for the first time for men to be free."

"O feminismo fará posible por primeira vez que os homes sexan libres."

Thank you.

Grazas.

(Applause)

(Aplausos)