Why Gender Equality Is Good for Everyone — Men Included | Michael Kimmel | TED Talks

翻译人员: April Chen 校对人员: Hayley Kang

I'm here to recruit men to support gender equality.

我现在要邀请各位男士支持性别平等

(Cheers)

（掌声）

Wait, wait. What?

不对，等一下，你说什么？

What do men have to do with gender equality?

性别平等跟男人有什么关系？

Gender equality is about women, right?

性别平等是女人的事吧！

I mean, the word gender is about women.

难道“性别”这个词不就指的是女性吗？

Actually, I'm even here speaking as a middle class white man.

我现在演讲的身份就是，一个中产阶级白种男人

Now, I wasn't always a middle class white man.

其实，我并不是“生来”就是一个中产阶级白种男人

It all happened for me about 30 years ago when I was in graduate school,

而一切都始于三十年前，我还在读研的时候

and a bunch of us graduate students got together one day,

有一天，我们一群研究生聚在一起

说起，那时候有一股

and we said, you know, there's an explosion

有关女性主义话题的写作以及思考的热潮

of writing and thinking in feminist theory,

but there's no courses yet.

然而却并没有这方面的课程

So we did what graduate students typically do in a situation like that.

通常在这种情况下，研究生们就要组织个学习小组啦

We said, OK, let's have a study group.

然后我们就搞了一个学习小组

We'll read a text, we'll talk about it,

读读文献，讨论一下

we'll have a potluck dinner.

然后再来个百乐餐

(Laughter)

（笑）

So every week, 11 women and me got together.

所以每周，我和其他11个女孩子一起

(Laughter)

（笑）

We would read some text in feminist theory and have a conversation about it.

我们会阅读关于女性主义的文章并且相互讨论

And during one of our conversations,

然而目睹其中一次对话的经历

I witnessed an interaction that changed my life forever.

彻底改变了我的人生

It was a conversation between two women.

那是两个女生在讨论

One of the women was white, and one was black.

一个是白人，另一个是黑人

And the white woman said --

白种女生说

this is going to sound very anachronistic now --

——现在听起来是非常荒谬的——

the white woman said, "All women face the same oppression as women.

白种女生说，“所有的女性，都承受着同样的压迫。

All women are similarly situated in patriarchy,

在这个父权制的社会，女性都处在同一地位

and therefore all women have a kind of intuitive solidarity or sisterhood."

所以，所有女性都会出于直觉地团结在一起，视彼此为姐妹。“

And the black woman said, "I'm not so sure.

而那个黑人女生说，“我有不同的看法。

Let me ask you a question."

那我问你个问题，”

So the black woman says to the white woman,

黑人女生问白人女生

"When you wake up in the morning and you look in the mirror,

“你每天早上醒来，对着镜子

what do you see?"

你看到什么？”

And the white woman said, "I see a woman."

“我看到的是我，一个女人。”白人女生回答

And the black woman said, "You see, that's the problem for me.

黑人女生说，“你看，这就是我的问题

Because when I wake up in the morning and I look in the mirror," she said,

因为我每天早上醒来对着镜子

"I see a black woman.

我看到的是我，一个黑种女人。

To me, race is visible. But to you, race is invisible. You don't see it."

对于我来说，种族差异是可见的，而对你，种族观念是无形的。你是感受不到的。”

And then she said something really startling.

之后她说的话很令我震撼

She said, "That's how privilege works.

她说，“这就是特权。

Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

对于拥有的人来说，它是无形的

It is a luxury, I will say to the white people sitting in this room,

我想对这个屋子里所有的白人说

not to have to think about race every split second of our lives.

能够不用时时刻刻把种族放在心上，这是种奢侈。“

Privilege is invisible to those who have it.

特权对于拥有它的人来说是无形的

Now remember, I was the only man in this group,

还记得吗，我是那个组里唯一的男生

so when I witnessed this, I went, "Oh no."

所以当我目睹了这次讨论之后，我说：“哎呀，糟糕”

(Laughter)

（笑）

And somebody said, "Well what was that reaction?"

有人问我，“你干嘛这个反应呀？”

And I said, "Well, when I wake up in the morning and I look in the mirror,

我说，“你看，我每天早上醒来，对着镜子

I see a human being.

我只会想，我是一个人

I'm kind of the generic person.

我的唯一属性就是人

You know, I'm a middle class white man. I have no race, no class, no gender.

我是一个中产阶级白种男性，没有种族、阶级或者性别的意识

I'm universally generalizable."

简直是全世界皆可通用的身份了。

(Laughter)

（笑）

So I like to think that was the moment I became a middle class white man,

我想大概就是从那时候开始，我成为了一个中产阶级白人男性

that class and race and gender were not about other people,

阶级、种族以及性别不再只是别人的事情了

they were about me.

我也有份

I had to start thinking about them,

我开始思考这些问题

and it had been privilege that had kept it invisible to me for so long.

意识到自己一直以来拥有着这种特权而不自知

Now, I wish I could tell you this story ends 30 years ago

这就是三十年前在那个讨论组里发生的小故事

in that little discussion group,

我本以为这个事情就过去了

but I was reminded of it quite recently at my university where I teach.

而最近我因为上课又想起来这件事

我和一位女性同事

I have a colleague, and she and I both teach the sociology of gender course

on alternate semesters.

轮流教授性别课程

So she gives a guest lecture for me when I teach.

我授课的时候她会来做客座教授

I give a guest lecture for her when she teaches.

她授课的时候我去做客座教授

So I walk into her class to give a guest lecture,

一次我作为客座教授去给她的班级上课

about 300 students in the room,

教室里大概有300个学生

and as I walk in, one of the students looks up and says,

当我走进教室的时候，一个学生抬起头说到

"Oh, finally, an objective opinion."

“哦，终于有个能说点客观看法的人了！”

All that semester, whenever my colleague opened her mouth,

所以整个学期，只要我的同事一开口

what my students saw was a woman.

学生们想到的就是，“她是个女人”

I mean, if you were to say to my students,

只要她说

"There is structural inequality based on gender in the United States,"

“美国社会存在针对女性的结构性不平等，”

they'd say, "Well of course you'd say that.

他们就会说，”你当然这么觉得啦

You're a woman. You're biased."

你是女人，你是有偏见的。”

When I say it, they go, "Wow, is that interesting.

而当我说同样的话，他们会说“嗯，有点意思。

Is that going to be on the test? How do you spell 'structural'?"

这个考试会考到吗？’结构性‘几个字怎么写？”

(Laughter)

（笑）

So I hope you all can see,

所以我要让你们看看

this is what objectivity looks like.

什么叫客观

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑，掌声）

Disembodied Western rationality.

虚无缥缈的西方式理性

(Laughter)

（算了吧。）

And that, by the way, is why I think men so often wear ties.

而且我觉得，这也是为什么男人打领带的原因

(Laughter)

（笑）

Because if you are going to embody disembodied Western rationality,

因为如果你想要表现这种空洞的西方式的理性

you need a signifier,

就需要一个象征物

and what could be a better signifier of disembodied Western rationality

而有什么能比这种一头是套索，另一头指向男性生殖器的服饰

than a garment that at one end is a noose and the other end points to the genitals?

更能代表这种无实质的西方式理性呢？

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑，掌声）

That is mind-body dualism right there.

这不就是身心二元论嘛

So making gender visible to men

所以，让男性意识到性别的存在

is the first step to engaging men to support gender equality.

是让男性加入到争取性别平等行列的第一步。

Now, when men first hear about gender equality,

很多男人第一次听到性别平等的时候

when they first start thinking about it,

当他们第一次思考性别平等的时候

they often think, many men think,

通常会想

well, that's right, that's fair, that's just,

嗯没错，男女平等是正确的，是公平的

that's the ethical imperative.

在道德层面讲是必要的

But not all men.

但不是所有男人都会这么想

Some men think -- the lightning bolt goes off,

一闪念过后

and they go, "Oh my God, yes, gender equality,"

他们会想，哦对，性别平等啊

and they will immediately begin to mansplain to you your oppression.

然后他们就立即开始向你讲述你的困扰

They see supporting gender equality something akin to the cavalry,

在他们心里，支持性别平等就如同救赎一样

like, "Thanks very much for bringing this to our attention, ladies,

“非常感谢，女士们，感谢你们提出来，

we'll take it from here."

我们会谨记在心."

This results in a syndrome that I like to call 'premature self-congratulation.'

我把这个称为“过早自我陶醉综合症“

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑）（掌声）

There's another group, though, that actively resists gender equality,

不过还有另外一群人 坚决反对性别平等

that sees gender equality as something that is detrimental to men.

他们认为性别平等对男性不利

I was on a TV talk show opposite four white men.

一次我在一档电视节目里 和四位白种男人辩论

This is the beginning of the book I wrote, 'Angry White Men.'

这也是我写的《愤怒的白种男人》这本书的开头

These were four angry white men

他们四位就非常愤怒

who believed that they, white men in America,

认为在美国的职场，

were the victims of reverse discrimination in the workplace.

白种男性才是这种歧视的受害者

And they all told stories about how they were qualified for jobs,

他们讲的都是，他们如何的适合一份工作

qualified for promotions,

如何应该得到晋升

they didn't get them, they were really angry.

但是却没有得到工作或者晋升机会，因而怒气冲冲

And the reason I'm telling you this is I want you to hear the title

我讲这个是想让你们听听

of this particular show.

这档节目的名字

It was a quote from one of the men,

名字取自其中一个男人说过的话

and the quote was,

他说

"A Black Woman Stole My Job."

“黑人女人偷走了我的工作”

And they all told their stories,

他们讲着自己的故事

qualified for jobs, qualified for promotions,

理应得到工作，理应升迁

然而失败了，他们很愤怒

didn't get it, really angry.

And then it was my turn to speak,

轮到我说话了

and I said, "I have just one question for you guys,

我说，我只想问你们一个问题

and it's about the title of the show,

关于这个节目的名字的

'A Black Woman Stole My Job.'

“黑人女人偷走了我的工作”

Actually, it's about one word in the title.

其实我就想问里面的一个词

I want to know about the word 'my.'

我想知道，这个“我的”是哪来的

Where did you get the idea it was your job?

你凭什么认为这就该是你的工作？

Why isn't the title of the show, 'A Black Woman Got the Job?'

为什么名字不是“黑人女人得到了那份工作”？

or 'A Black Woman Got A Job?'"

或者“黑人女人得到了工作”？

Because without confronting men's sense of entitlement,

因为如果不去面对男性这种自认有权得到一切的心理

I don't think we'll ever understand why so many men resist gender equality.

我们就不可能理解为什么男人如此抗拒性别平等

(Applause)

（掌声）

Look, we think this is a level playing field,

这就是我们以为的“公平的“环境

so any policy that tilts it even a little bit,

所以一旦有政策稍稍倾斜

we think, "Oh my God, water's rushing uphill.

就有人觉得，天啊，大事不好了

It's reverse discrimination against us."

这简直就是对我们的歧视啊

(Laughter)

（笑）

So let me be very clear:

我希望大家能认识到

white men in Europe and the United States

在欧洲和美国的白种男性

are the beneficiaries of the single greatest affirmative action program

是历史上伟大的平权运动中

in the history of the world.

最大的受益者

It is called "the history of the world."

这就是所谓的“世界史”

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑）（掌声）

So, now I've established some of the obstacles to engaging men,

现在我说的都是阻碍男性参与性别平等运动的障碍

but why should we support gender equality?

那么为什么我们要支持性别平等呢？

Of course, it's fair, it's right and it's just.

没错，这是正确的事，公正的事

But more than that,

然而不止于此，

gender equality is also in our interest as men.

性别平等对男性来说 也是有利的

If you listen to what men say about what they want in their lives,

如果你去听听男性心中的理想生活

gender equality is actually a way for us to get the lives we want to live.

就会明白 性别平等是可以帮助我们过上我们理想的生活的

Gender equality is good for countries.

性别平等对国家来说也是有益的

It turns out, according to most studies,

多项研究显示

that those countries that are the most gender equal

那些相对来说男女地位更加平等的社会

are also the countries that score highest on the happiness scale.

幸福度也是越高的

And that's not just because they're all in Europe.

注意 并不只是因为他们都是欧洲国家啊

(Laughter)

（笑）

Even within Europe, those countries that are more gender equal

在欧洲范围内，也是男女越平等

also have the highest levels of happiness.

幸福度越高

It is also good for companies.

性别平等对公司来讲也是好事

Research by Catalyst and others has shown conclusively

Catalyst 以及其他一些机构的调查显示

that the more gender-equal companies are,

如果一家公司对待男女的方式越平等

the better it is for workers,

对于员工是越有利的

the happier their labor force is.

员工的幸福度会更高

They have lower job turnover. They have lower levels of attrition.

工作流动率更低，员工也会更专心工作

They have an easier time recruiting.

这样的公司更容易招揽人才

They have higher rates of retention, higher job satisfaction,

员工的忠诚度和工作满足感都更高

higher rates of productivity.

生产率也会提高

So the question I'm often asked in companies is,

在公司里我经常被问到的问题是

"Boy, this gender equality thing, that's really going to be expensive, huh?"

哦，你说的这个性别平等，要花很多钱吧

And I say, "Oh no, in fact, what you have to start calculating

我说，并不是的，你反倒要算算

is how much gender inequality is already costing you.

性别不平等浪费了你多少钱

It is extremely expensive."

性别不平等才费钱呢

So it is good for business.

所以性别平等也会促进商业

And the other thing is, it's good for men.

另外，性别平等对男性是有利的

It is good for the kind of lives we want to live,

会帮助男性过上我们想要的生活

because young men especially have changed enormously,

因为现在年轻男性的想法变了

and they want to have lives that are animated

他们希望可以

by terrific relationships with their children.

和自己的孩子们保持良好的父子关系

They expect their partners, their spouses, their wives,

他们乐见自己的伴侣，自己的妻子

to work outside the home

走出家门去工作

and be just as committed to their careers as they are.

和自己一样 投入地经营事业

I was talking, to give you an illustration of this change --

我来讲一件事 可以大概让你们知道改变有多大

Some of you may remember this.

你们可能有人会记得

When I was a lot younger, there was a riddle that was posed to us.

当我还年轻的时候，那时候有道脑筋急转弯题目

Some of you may wince to remember this riddle.

你们可能有人还记得这个

This riddle went something like this.

那道题是这样的

A man and his son are driving on the freeway,

说一个男人在高速上开车载着他儿子

and they're in a terrible accident,

突然发生了很严重的车祸

and the father is killed,

父亲死了

and the son is brought to the hospital emergency room,

儿子被送到急诊室

and as they're bringing the son into the hospital emergency room,

当这个儿子被推进去的时候

the emergency room attending physician sees the boy and says,

急诊室的当班大夫看到这个男孩说

"Oh, I can't treat him, that's my son."

我不能救治他啊，他是我的儿子

How is this possible?

这是怎么回事呢？

We were flummoxed by this.

我们都傻眼了

We could not figure this out.

完全想不出怎么回事

(Laughter)

（笑）

Well, I decided to do a little experiment with my 16-year old son.

我打算拿我16岁的儿子做个实验

He had a bunch of his friends hanging out at the house

那天他正和一群朋友

watching a game on TV recently.

在家里看电视

So I decided I would pose this riddle to them,

我打算拿这道题考考他们

just to see, to gauge the level of change.

看看我们这两代的差别

Well, 16-year-old boys,

这群16岁的男孩子

they immediately turned to me and said, "It's his mom." Right?

很快就转向我，说，因为那是他的妈妈

No problem. Just like that.

就是这么回事！

Except for my son, who said, "Well, he could have two dads."

而我儿子说，嗯 也有可能他有两个爸爸

(Laughter) (Applause)

（笑）

That's an index, an indicator of how things have changed.

从这就能看出时代在变化

Younger men today expect to be able to balance work and family.

年轻一代的男性希望他们可以平衡工作和生活

They want to be dual-career, dual-carer couples.

他们想要兼顾事业和家庭

They want to be able to balance work and family with their partners.

和他们的伴侣一起

They want to be involved fathers.

参与到孩子们的生活

Now, it turns out

事实证明

that the more egalitarian our relationships,

婚姻中双方关系越平等

the happier both partners are.

夫妻的幸福感会越高

Data from psychologists and sociologists are quite persuasive here.

心理学家和社会学家的研究数据都很有说服力

I think we have the persuasive numbers, the data, to prove to men

我想我们是可以拿着这些数据去说服男性同胞们

that gender equality is not a zero-sum game, but a win-win.

告诉他们性别平等不是零和博弈，而是一场双赢

Here's what the data show.

数据显示

Now, when men begin the process of engaging

对了，当男性参与到平衡

with balancing work and family,

工作和家庭的事务中时

we often have two phrases that we use to describe what we do.

我们经常会用两个词形容

We pitch in and we help out.

男人来“搭把手”或者“帮帮忙”

(Laughter)

（笑）

And I'm going to propose something a little bit more radical,

现在我想换一个更激进的词

one word: "share."

叫“共同分担”

(Laughter)

（笑）

Because here's what the data show:

数据显示

when men share housework and childcare,

当男性开始分担家务、照料孩子

their children do better in school.

孩子在学校的表现会提高

Their children have lower rates of absenteeism,

这些孩子的缺勤率更低

higher rates of achievement.

表现更好

They are less likely to be diagnosed with ADHD.

患注意力不集中症的概率更小

They are less likely to see a child psychiatrist.

患儿童精神疾病的概率更小

They are less likely to be put on medication.

甚至更少生病

So when men share housework and childcare,

也就是说，当男人开始分担家务和照顾孩子之后

their children are happier and healthier,

孩子们可以变得更健康更快乐

and men want this.

而这也是男人所希望的

When men share housework and childcare,

当男人开始分担家务和照顾孩子之后

their wives are happier. Duh.

他们的太太们更开心（这还用说吗）

Not only that, their wives are healthier.

不仅如此，太太们也会更健康

Their wives are less likely to see a therapist,

她们更少生病

less likely to be diagnosed with depression,

患抑郁症的几率下降

less likely to be put on medication, more likely to go to the gym,

吃药的几率下降并更愿意去健身房锻炼

report higher levels of marital satisfaction.

婚姻的满足感更高

So when men share housework and childcare,

所以 当男人开始分担家务和照顾孩子

their wives are happier and healthier,

他们的太太会更健康 更开心

and men certainly want this as well.

而这也是男人们想要的

When men share housework and childcare,

另外，当男人开始分担家务和照顾孩子

the men are healthier.

他们自己也会变的更健康

They smoke less, drink less, take recreational drugs less often.

喝酒抽烟少了，用消遣性药品的次数也少了

They are less likely to go to the ER

不用再常跑急诊室了

but more like to go to a doctor for routine screenings.

只是会更经常地去医院做例行体检

They are less likely to see a therapist,

不再常去看心理医生

less likely to be diagnosed with depression,

患抑郁症的几率下降

less likely to be taking prescription medication.

更少生病

So when men share housework and childcare,

当男人开始分担家务和照顾孩子之后

the men are happier and healthier.

他们自己变得更健康 更开心

And who wouldn't want that?

难道有人不想吗？

And finally,

最后

when men share housework and childcare,

当男人开始分担家务和照顾孩子之后

they have more sex.

他们做爱的次数更多了

(Laughter)

（笑）

Now, of these four fascinating findings,

好吧，你猜这四项研究结果当中

which one do you think Men's Health magazine put on its cover?

哪一个会登上 男士健康 的杂志封面？

(Laughter)

（笑）

"Housework Makes Her Horny.

“家务令她更性感”

(Not When She Does It.)"

（当做家务的人不是她）

(Laughter)

（笑）

Now, I will say,

不过

我要提醒在座的男士

just to remind the men in the audience,

these data were collected over a really long period of time,

这些数据可是通过长期观察得来的

so I don't want listeners to say,

我可不想听到有人说

"Hmm, OK, I think I'll do the dishes tonight."

哦，那好，今晚我来洗碗好了

These data were collected over a really long period of time.

这个结果不是一天两天就得到的

But I think it shows something important,

男士健康杂志会把这个调查结果放上封面

that when Men's Health magazine put it on their cover,

起个名字叫 “家务游戏”，我知道你们会喜欢这个

they also called, you'll love this, "Choreplay."

So, what we found is something really important,

这其实表明了一个很重要的事实

这就是

that gender equality

性别平等是对各方都有利的

is in the interest of countries,

对国家

of companies, and of men,

对企业，对男性

and their children and their partners,

对他们的孩子以及伴侣来说都如此

that gender equality is not a zero-sum game.

性别平等不是一种零和博弈

It's not a win-lose.

不是哪方非赢即输

It is a win-win for everyone.

而是对于每个人来说的共赢局面

And what we also know

我们要明确

is we cannot fully empower women and girls

只有当我们让男人以及男孩们加入到我们的行列

unless we engage boys and men.

才可以真正赋予女人和女孩儿们平等权利

We know this.

我们要明确这一点

And my position is

而且我认为

that men need the very things that women have identified

如果男同胞们想要过上我们理想中的生活

that they need to live the lives they say they want to live

我们需要的正是

in order to live the lives that we say we want to live.

和女性过上她们理想生活所需要的一样的东西

In 1915, on the eve of one of the great suffrage demonstrations

那是1915年，纽约第五大道上

down Fifth Avenue in New York City,

还有为争取女性选举权游行的人群

a writer in New York wrote an article in a magazine,

一天夜里，纽约的一位作家在为杂志写稿

and the title of the article was,

文章的题目是

"Feminism for Men."

“给男性的女性主义”

And this was the first line of that article:

文章开头第一句话是

"Feminism will make it possible for the first time for men to be free."

“女性主义会首次开启一个真正解放男性的时代”

Thank you.

谢谢各位

(Applause)

（鼓掌）