Why Gender Equality Is Good for Everyone — Men Included | Michael Kimmel | TED Talks

Translator: Anne Wedege Reviewer: Lars Sarauw Hansen

Jeg er her for at rekruttere mænd, der vil støtte ligestilling. (Latter)

Vent! Hvad?

I'm here to recruit men to support gender equality.

Hvad kommer ligestilling mænd ved?

(Cheers)

Ligestilling handler om kvinder, ikke?

Wait, wait. What?

Jeg mener, ordet ligestilling er om kvinder.

What do men have to do with gender equality?

Jeg står faktisk her som en hvid mand fra middelklassen.

Gender equality is about women, right?

I mean, the word gender is about women.

OK, jeg har ikke altid været en hvid mand fra middelklassen.

Det hele skete for 30 år siden, da jeg gik på kandidatuddannelsen,

Actually, I'm even here speaking as a middle class white man.

Now, I wasn't always a middle class white man.

og en masse af os studerende en dag samledes,

It all happened for me about 30 years ago when I was in graduate school,

og vi sagde: Der er en eksplosion

af artikler og tanker omkring feministiske teorier,

and a bunch of us graduate students got together one day,

men der er endnu ingen kurser.

Så vi gjorde, som kandidatstuderende typisk gør i sådan en situation.

and we said, you know, there's an explosion

of writing and thinking in feminist theory,

Vi sagde, OK, lad os lave en studiegruppe.

but there's no courses yet.

Vi læser en tekst, vi taler om den,

So we did what graduate students typically do in a situation like that.

og vi laver et sammenskudsgilde.

We said, OK, let's have a study group.

Så hver uge mødtes 11 kvinder og mig.

We'll read a text, we'll talk about it,

we'll have a potluck dinner.

(Laughter)

Vi læste en tekst om feministisk teori og talte om den.

So every week, 11 women and me got together.

Og undervejs overhørte jeg en ordveksling, der forandrede mit liv.

(Laughter)

We would read some text in feminist theory and have a conversation about it.

Det var en samtale mellem to kvinder.

And during one of our conversations,

I witnessed an interaction that changed my life forever.

Den ene var hvid, den anden sort.

Den hvide kvinde sagde - det kommer nok til at lyde anakronistisk

It was a conversation between two women.

One of the women was white, and one was black.

"Alle kvinder står over for den samme kvindeundertrykkelse.

And the white woman said --

Alle kvinder er placeret det samme sted i patriarkatet,

this is going to sound very anachronistic now --

the white woman said, "All women face the same oppression as women.

og derfor har alle kvinder en slags intuitiv solidaritet eller søsterskab."

All women are similarly situated in patriarchy,

Den sorte kvinde sagde: "Det er jeg ikke sikker på,

and therefore all women have a kind of intuitive solidarity or sisterhood."

lad mig stille dig et spørgsmål."

Og så sagde den sorte kvinde til den hvide kvinde:

And the black woman said, "I'm not so sure.

"Når du vågner om morgenen og ser dig i spejlet, hvad ser du så?"

Let me ask you a question."

Den hvide kvinde sagde: "Jeg ser en kvinde."

So the black woman says to the white woman,

Og den sorte kvinde sagde "Se, her har du problemet.

"When you wake up in the morning and you look in the mirror,

For når jeg vågner og ser mig i spejlet, ser jeg en sort kvinde.

what do you see?"

And the white woman said, "I see a woman."

And the black woman said, "You see, that's the problem for me.

For mig er race synlig. Men for dig er race usynlig, du ser den ikke.”

Because when I wake up in the morning and I look in the mirror," she said,

Og så sagde hun noget virkelig overraskende.

"I see a black woman.

To me, race is visible. But to you, race is invisible. You don't see it."

“Det er det, privilegier gør. Privilegier er usynlige for dem, som har dem.”

And then she said something really startling.

Det er en luksus, siger jeg til de hvide, som sidder i dette lokale,

She said, "That's how privilege works.

ikke at skulle tænke på race hvert sekund i vores liv.

Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

Privilegier er usynlige for dem, som har dem.

It is a luxury, I will say to the white people sitting in this room,

not to have to think about race every split second of our lives.

Jeg var jo den eneste mand i gruppen så da jeg hørte dette, sagde jeg "Åh nej".

Privilege is invisible to those who have it.

Og en spurgte "Hvad var det for en reaktion?"

Now remember, I was the only man in this group,

Jeg sagde: “OK, når jeg vågner og ser mig i spejlet, ser jeg et menneske.

so when I witnessed this, I went, "Oh no."

(Laughter)

And somebody said, "Well what was that reaction?"

Jeg er en slags prototype.

And I said, "Well, when I wake up in the morning and I look in the mirror,

Jeg er en middelklasse hvid mand uden race, uden klasse, uden køn.

I see a human being.

Jeg er universelt generel."

I'm kind of the generic person.

Jeg tænker, at det var det øjeblik, jeg blev en hvid mand fra middelklassen,

You know, I'm a middle class white man. I have no race, no class, no gender.

at klasse og race og køn ikke handler om andre, men om mig selv.

I'm universally generalizable."

(Laughter)

So I like to think that was the moment I became a middle class white man,

Jeg måtte begynde at tænke på dem,

og at det var privilegierne, der længe havde gjort det usynligt for mig

that class and race and gender were not about other people,

they were about me.

Jeg ville ønske at historien sluttede dengang i den lille debatgruppe

I had to start thinking about them,

and it had been privilege that had kept it invisible to me for so long.

men jeg blev mindet om den fornylig på universitetet, hvor jeg underviser.

En kvindelig kollega og jeg underviser på skift i kønnenes sociologi

Now, I wish I could tell you this story ends 30 years ago

in that little discussion group,

but I was reminded of it quite recently at my university where I teach.

Dvs hun gæsteforelæser, når jeg underviser,

I have a colleague, and she and I both teach the sociology of gender course

og jeg gæsteforelæser, når hun underviser.

Så jeg går ind i hendes klasse for at give en gæsteforelæsning.

on alternate semesters.

Der er ca. 300 studerende i lokalet,

So she gives a guest lecture for me when I teach.

I give a guest lecture for her when she teaches.

og da jeg kommer ind, siger en af de studerende:

So I walk into her class to give a guest lecture,

"Endelig får vi en objektiv holdning."

about 300 students in the room,

Hver gang min kollega åbnede munden, var alt, hvad de studerende så, en kvinde.

and as I walk in, one of the students looks up and says,

"Oh, finally, an objective opinion."

Hvis en kvinde sagde til mine studerende:

All that semester, whenever my colleague opened her mouth,

"Der er en strukturel ulighed mellem kønnene i USA",

ville de sige: “Ja, ja, du er jo kvinde,

what my students saw was a woman.

du er forudindtaget.”

I mean, if you were to say to my students,

Når jeg siger det, siger de: “Wow, det er interessant.

"There is structural inequality based on gender in the United States,"

Kommer det med til eksamen? Hvordan staver man til strukturel?"

they'd say, "Well of course you'd say that.

You're a woman. You're biased."

When I say it, they go, "Wow, is that interesting.

Så jeg håber, at I forstår, at det er sådan, objektivitet ser ud.

Is that going to be on the test? How do you spell 'structural'?"

(Laughter)

So I hope you all can see,

Kropsløs vestlig rationalitet.

this is what objectivity looks like.

(Laughter) (Applause)

Det er derfor, tror jeg, at mænd så ofte bruger slips.

Disembodied Western rationality.

(Laughter)

For hvis man skal manifestere kropsløs vestlig rationalitet,

And that, by the way, is why I think men so often wear ties.

har man brug for et kendetegn,

og hvad kunne være et bedre kendetegn på kropsløs vestlig rationalitet

(Laughter)

Because if you are going to embody disembodied Western rationality,

end tøj, hvor den ene ende er en løkke, og den anden peger på kønsorganet?

you need a signifier,

and what could be a better signifier of disembodied Western rationality

than a garment that at one end is a noose and the other end points to the genitals?

Det må man kalde sind-krop-dualisme.

(Laughter) (Applause)

Så at gøre køn synligt for mænd

That is mind-body dualism right there.

er første skridt mod at engagere mænd i at støtte ligestilling mellem kønnene.

So making gender visible to men

Når mænd først hører om ligestilling,

når de først begynder at tænke over det,

is the first step to engaging men to support gender equality.

tænker de ofte - mange mænd tænker -

"OK, det lyder rigtigt, det er retfærdigt,

Now, when men first hear about gender equality,

when they first start thinking about it,

det er vores etiske værdigrundlag."

they often think, many men think,

Men ikke alle mænd.

well, that's right, that's fair, that's just,

Nogle mænd tænker (hjernen lukker ned),

og de siger: "Åh Gud, ja, ligestilling mellem kønnene..."

that's the ethical imperative.

og så begynder de at docere om, hvor undertrykt du er.

But not all men.

Some men think -- the lightning bolt goes off,

and they go, "Oh my God, yes, gender equality,"

De tror, at støtten til ligestilling er lidt som et kavaleri,

and they will immediately begin to mansplain to you your oppression.

ligesom: "Mange tak for at I fortæller os det, de damer,

They see supporting gender equality something akin to the cavalry,

vi tager den herfra."

Dette resulterer i et syndrom, som jeg kalder “for tidlig selv-afgang.”

like, "Thanks very much for bringing this to our attention, ladies,

we'll take it from here."

This results in a syndrome that I like to call 'premature self-congratulation.'

En anden gruppe modsætter sig aktivt ligestilling,

(Laughter) (Applause)

de ser ligestilling som noget skadeligt for mænd.

There's another group, though, that actively resists gender equality,

Jeg deltog engang i et TV talk show over for fire hvide mænd.

that sees gender equality as something that is detrimental to men.

Dette står i begyndelsen af min bog "Vrede hvide mænd".

Det er fire vrede hvide mænd,

I was on a TV talk show opposite four white men.

som mente, at de - hvide mænd i Amerika -

This is the beginning of the book I wrote, 'Angry White Men.'

var ofre for omvendt diskrimination på arbejdet.

These were four angry white men

who believed that they, white men in America,

De fortalte om, hvordan de var kvalificerede til jobs og forfremmelse,

were the victims of reverse discrimination in the workplace.

som de ikke fik. De var virkelig vrede.

Jeg fortæller jer dette, fordi I skal høre titlen på dette show.

And they all told stories about how they were qualified for jobs,

qualified for promotions,

Titlen var et citat fra en af mændene,

they didn't get them, they were really angry.

And the reason I'm telling you this is I want you to hear the title

"En sort kvinde stjal mit job."

of this particular show.

Og de fortalte alle deres historie,

It was a quote from one of the men,

kvalificeret til jobs, og forfremmelse,

and the quote was,

Fik det ikke, virkelig vred.

"A Black Woman Stole My Job."

Så blev det min tur:

"Jeg har kun et spørgsmål til jer fyre,

And they all told their stories,

qualified for jobs, qualified for promotions,

og det er omkring titlen på showet,

didn't get it, really angry.

"En sort kvinde stjal mit job."

And then it was my turn to speak,

Rent faktisk er det kun et ord i titlen.

and I said, "I have just one question for you guys,

Jeg vil vide noget om ordet "mit".

and it's about the title of the show,

Hvorfra fik I ideen om, at det var jeres job?

'A Black Woman Stole My Job.'

Actually, it's about one word in the title.

Hvorfor er titlen på showet ikke "En sort kvinde fik jobbet"?

I want to know about the word 'my.'

eller "En sort kvinde fik et job"?

Where did you get the idea it was your job?

For hvis vi ikke konfronterer mænd og deres følelse af at være berettiget,

Why isn't the title of the show, 'A Black Woman Got the Job?'

vil vi ikke forstå, at så mange mænd modsætter sig ligestilling mellem kønnene.

or 'A Black Woman Got A Job?'"

Because without confronting men's sense of entitlement,

I don't think we'll ever understand why so many men resist gender equality.

Vi tror, at der er lige vilkår,

(Applause)

derfor tænker vi, at enhver politik som skubber til det bare en smule,

"Åh Gud, vandet løber opad,

det er omvendt diskrimination imod os."

Look, we think this is a level playing field,

Lad mig være helt tydelig:

so any policy that tilts it even a little bit,

Hvide mænd i Europa og USA

we think, "Oh my God, water's rushing uphill.

It's reverse discrimination against us."

har fordelene ved verdens største bekræftelses-projekt.

(Laughter)

So let me be very clear:

white men in Europe and the United States

Det hedder "verdenshistorien".

are the beneficiaries of the single greatest affirmative action program

in the history of the world.

It is called "the history of the world."

Nu har jeg fastslået nogle forhindringer for mænds engagement,

(Laughter) (Applause)

men hvorfor skal vi dog støtte ligestilling?

Det er klart: det er retfærdigt og rigtigt.

So, now I've established some of the obstacles to engaging men,

Men mere end det, ligestilling er også i vores egen interesse.

but why should we support gender equality?

Of course, it's fair, it's right and it's just.

Hvis vi hører, hvad mænd siger om hvad de ønsker sig af livet,

But more than that,

gender equality is also in our interest as men.

er ligestilling en måde for os til at få de liv, vi gerne vil leve.

If you listen to what men say about what they want in their lives,

Ligestilling er godt for nationerne.

gender equality is actually a way for us to get the lives we want to live.

Ifølge de fleste undersøgelser er de lande med mest ligestilling

Gender equality is good for countries.

også de lande, der scorer højest på lykkeskalaen.

It turns out, according to most studies,

Og det er ikke kun fordi de alle ligger i Europa.

that those countries that are the most gender equal

are also the countries that score highest on the happiness scale.

Selv inden for Europa har de lande, som har mest ligestilling,

også den højeste lykke-placering.

And that's not just because they're all in Europe.

(Laughter)

Det er også godt for erhvervslivet.

Even within Europe, those countries that are more gender equal

Forskning fra Catalyst og andre fastslår, at jo mere ligestilling, der er i firmaer,

also have the highest levels of happiness.

It is also good for companies.

jo bedre er det for medarbejderne og deres arbejdskraft.

Research by Catalyst and others has shown conclusively

that the more gender-equal companies are,

Der er mindre jobskifte. Der er mindre nedslidning.

the better it is for workers,

Det er nemmere for dem at rekruttere.

Folk bliver længere i arbejdet med mere tilfredshed og produktivitet.

the happier their labor force is.

They have lower job turnover. They have lower levels of attrition.

I firmaer bliver jeg ofte stillet det spørgsmål:

They have an easier time recruiting.

They have higher rates of retention, higher job satisfaction,

"Det der med ligestilling, det bliver rigtig dyrt, ikke?"

higher rates of productivity.

Jeg siger: "Slet ikke, det, I skal begynde at regne på,

So the question I'm often asked in companies is,

er hvor meget ulighed mellem kønnene allerede koster jer.

"Boy, this gender equality thing, that's really going to be expensive, huh?"

Det er ekstremt dyrt."

And I say, "Oh no, in fact, what you have to start calculating

Dvs. det er godt for forretningslivet.

is how much gender inequality is already costing you.

Og en anden ting: det er godt for mænd.

It is extremely expensive."

Det er godt for den slags liv, vi ønsker at leve,

So it is good for business.

for især unge mænd har forandret sig enormt,

And the other thing is, it's good for men.

og de ønsker at leve deres liv fyldt med

It is good for the kind of lives we want to live,

fantastiske forhold til deres børn.

because young men especially have changed enormously,

De forventer, at deres partnere, ægtefæller og hustruer

and they want to have lives that are animated

arbejder udenfor hjemmet,

og at de er lige så engageret i deres karriere, som de selv er.

by terrific relationships with their children.

They expect their partners, their spouses, their wives,

Lad mig give jer et billede på denne forandring.

to work outside the home

Nogle af jer husker det måske.

and be just as committed to their careers as they are.

Da jeg var meget yngre, var der en gåde, der blev stillet til os.

I was talking, to give you an illustration of this change --

Nogle af jer vil måske krympe sig når I husker den gåde.

Some of you may remember this.

Den lød nogenlunde sådan her.

When I was a lot younger, there was a riddle that was posed to us.

En mand og hans søn kører på motorvejen,

Some of you may wince to remember this riddle.

og de kommer ud for en frygtelig ulykke, og faderen dør.

This riddle went something like this.

Sønnen kommer på hospitalet,

A man and his son are driving on the freeway,

og da de bringer sønnen ind på skadestuen,

and they're in a terrible accident,

and the father is killed,

ser lægen drengen og siger:

and the son is brought to the hospital emergency room,

“Åh, jeg kan ikke behandle ham, han er min søn.”

and as they're bringing the son into the hospital emergency room,

Hvordan er det muligt?

Vi var forbløffede over den gåde.

the emergency room attending physician sees the boy and says,

Vi kunne ikke regne den ud.

"Oh, I can't treat him, that's my son."

How is this possible?

OK, jeg ville lave et lille eksperiment med min 16-årige søn.

We were flummoxed by this.

Han havde fornylig en masse venner på besøg,

We could not figure this out.

(Laughter)

der så et spil på TV.

Well, I decided to do a little experiment with my 16-year old son.

Jeg ville give dem denne gåde,

He had a bunch of his friends hanging out at the house

bare for at måle niveauet af forandring.

OK, de 16-årige drenge

watching a game on TV recently.

sagde med det samme: "Det er hans mor."

So I decided I would pose this riddle to them,

just to see, to gauge the level of change.

Ingen bryderier. Bare sådan.

Well, 16-year-old boys,

Undtagen min søn, som sagde: "Han kunne jo have to fædre."

they immediately turned to me and said, "It's his mom." Right?

No problem. Just like that.

Except for my son, who said, "Well, he could have two dads."

Det er en indikator på, hvor meget det har forandret sig.

(Laughter) (Applause)

Yngre mænd i vore dage forventes at kunne balancere arbejde og familie.

That's an index, an indicator of how things have changed.

De ønsker at være par med dobbelt karriere og dobbelt omsorg.

Younger men today expect to be able to balance work and family.

De ønsker at kunne balancere arbejde og familie med deres partnere.

They want to be dual-career, dual-carer couples.

De ønsker at være aktive fædre.

Det viser sig, at jo mere lighed der er i vores forhold,

They want to be able to balance work and family with their partners.

jo mere lykkelig er begge parter.

They want to be involved fathers.

Now, it turns out

Data fra psykologer og sociologer er ret overbevisende.

that the more egalitarian our relationships,

Jeg tror, at vi har nok data, til at bevise over for mænd,

the happier both partners are.

Data from psychologists and sociologists are quite persuasive here.

at ligestilling mellem kønnene ikke er et nulsums-spil, men et win-win.

I think we have the persuasive numbers, the data, to prove to men

Her er, hvad data viser:

Når mænd begynder at engagere sig i at balancere arbejde og familie,

that gender equality is not a zero-sum game, but a win-win.

Here's what the data show.

bruger vi ofte to fraser til at beskrive, hvad vi gør.

Now, when men begin the process of engaging

Vi "stiller op" og vi "hjælper".

with balancing work and family,

Nu vil jeg foreslå noget lidt mere radikalt,

we often have two phrases that we use to describe what we do.

et ord: "deles".

We pitch in and we help out.

Her er data:

(Laughter)

And I'm going to propose something a little bit more radical,

Når mænd deltager i husarbejde og børnene,

klarer deres børn sig bedre i skolen.

one word: "share."

(Laughter)

Deres børn har mindre fravær, får bedre karakterer.

Because here's what the data show:

when men share housework and childcare,

Færre får diagnosen ADHD. Færre går til børnepsykiater

their children do better in school.

Their children have lower rates of absenteeism,

Færre får medicin.

higher rates of achievement.

They are less likely to be diagnosed with ADHD.

Så når mænd deltager i husarbejde og med børnene,

They are less likely to see a child psychiatrist.

er deres børn lykkeligere og sundere,

They are less likely to be put on medication.

og mænd ønsker dette.

So when men share housework and childcare,

Når mænd deltager i husarbejde og børnene,

their children are happier and healthier,

er hustruerne lykkeligere. Overraskende nok.

and men want this.

Ikke bare det, hustruerne er sundere, færre går i terapi,

When men share housework and childcare,

their wives are happier. Duh.

færre får depression eller medicin, flere går til kropstræning,

Not only that, their wives are healthier.

har større tilfredshed i ægteskabet.

Their wives are less likely to see a therapist,

less likely to be diagnosed with depression,

Så når mænd deltager i husarbejde og med børnene,

less likely to be put on medication, more likely to go to the gym,

er hustruerne lykkeligere og sundere,

og det ønsker mænd bestemt også.

report higher levels of marital satisfaction.

Når mænd deltager i husarbejde og med børnene,

So when men share housework and childcare,

er mændene sundere.

their wives are happier and healthier,

De ryger mindre, drikker mindre, bruger sjældnere rusmidler.

and men certainly want this as well.

When men share housework and childcare,

Færre kommer på skadestuen, flere går til lægen for et rutinecheck

the men are healthier.

They smoke less, drink less, take recreational drugs less often.

Færre går i terapi eller får depression,

They are less likely to go to the ER

færre får ordineret medicin.

but more like to go to a doctor for routine screenings.

Så når mænd deltager i husarbejde og med børnene,

They are less likely to see a therapist,

er mændene lykkeligere og sundere.

less likely to be diagnosed with depression,

Og hvem ønsker ikke det?

less likely to be taking prescription medication.

Og til sidst:

So when men share housework and childcare,

Når mænd deltager, i husarbejde og med børnene,

the men are happier and healthier.

har de mere sex.

And who wouldn't want that?

Ud af disse fire fascinerende resultater,

And finally,

hvilken et tror I tidsskriftet Men’s Health satte på forsiden?

when men share housework and childcare,

they have more sex.

(Laughter)

“Husarbejde gør hende liderlig”. Altså ikke, når hun gør det.

Now, of these four fascinating findings,

which one do you think Men's Health magazine put on its cover?

(Laughter)

Jeg må lige sige til mændene:

"Housework Makes Her Horny.

(Not When She Does It.)"

Disse data er samlet over en lang periode,

(Laughter)

Now, I will say,

så jeg vil ikke have mænd, der siger:

just to remind the men in the audience,

“Hmm, jeg tror jeg tager opvasken i aften.”

these data were collected over a really long period of time,

Disse data er samlet over en virkelig lang periode.

so I don't want listeners to say,

Men jeg tror, de viser noget vigtigt:

"Hmm, OK, I think I'll do the dishes tonight."

Da Men's Health skrev det på forsiden,

These data were collected over a really long period of time.

kaldte de det "får-spil".

But I think it shows something important,

Vi har fat i noget virkelig vigtigt.

that when Men's Health magazine put it on their cover,

they also called, you'll love this, "Choreplay."

Når ligestilling mellem kønnene er en fordel for landene,

So, what we found is something really important,

for erhvervslivet og for mændene,

that gender equality

deres børn og deres partnere, er ligestilling ikke et nulsums-spil,

is in the interest of countries,

of companies, and of men,

ikke om at vinde eller tabe. Det er win-win for alle.

and their children and their partners,

Og vi ved også,

that gender equality is not a zero-sum game.

at vi ikke kan styrke kvinderne og pigerne fuldt ud,

It's not a win-lose.

It is a win-win for everyone.

med mindre vi engagerer drengene og mændene.

And what we also know

Vi ved det.

is we cannot fully empower women and girls

Min holdning er,

at mænd har brug for de samme ting, som kvinder har identificeret

unless we engage boys and men.

We know this.

som vigtige for det liv de ønsker sig,

And my position is

for at vi kan leve det liv som vi ønsker os.

that men need the very things that women have identified

I 1915, under en af de store demonstrationer for stemmeret for kvinder,

that they need to live the lives they say they want to live

in order to live the lives that we say we want to live.

på Fifth Avenue i New York,

skrev en forfatter en artikel i et tidsskrift,

In 1915, on the eve of one of the great suffrage demonstrations

og overskriften på artiklen var:

down Fifth Avenue in New York City,

"Feminisme for mænd."

a writer in New York wrote an article in a magazine,

Første linje i den artikel lød:

and the title of the article was,

"Feminisme vil gøre det muligt for mænd for første gang at blive frie".

"Feminism for Men."

Tak.

And this was the first line of that article:

"Feminism will make it possible for the first time for men to be free."

Thank you.

(Applause)