Understanding the rise of China | Martin Jacques

2,401,560 views ・ 2011-01-24

TED


請雙擊下方英文字幕播放視頻。

譯者: Wang-Ju Tsai 審譯者: Chih-Yuan Huang
00:15
The world is changing
0
15260
2000
這個世界
00:17
with really remarkable speed.
1
17260
3000
正以驚人的速度在改變。
00:20
If you look at the chart at the top here,
2
20260
2000
如果你看這張圖表的上方,
00:22
you'll see that in 2025,
3
22260
2000
會看到在2025年
00:24
these Goldman Sachs projections
4
24260
2000
根據高盛 (Goldman Sachs) 的預測,
00:26
suggest that the Chinese economy
5
26260
2000
中國的經濟規模
00:28
will be almost the same size as the American economy.
6
28260
3000
將會和美國幾乎相當 。
00:31
And if you look at the chart
7
31260
3000
再看看這張圖表,
00:34
for 2050,
8
34260
2000
在2050年
00:36
it's projected that the Chinese economy
9
36260
3000
中國的經濟規模
00:39
will be twice the size of the American economy,
10
39260
3000
將會是美國的兩倍大,
00:42
and the Indian economy will be almost the same size
11
42260
2000
而印度的經濟規模
00:44
as the American economy.
12
44260
3000
將會和美國不相上下。
00:47
And we should bear in mind here
13
47260
2000
我們必須記住的是,
00:49
that these projections were drawn up
14
49260
2000
這些預測
00:51
before the Western financial crisis.
15
51260
3000
都是在西方金融危機之前制定的。
00:54
A couple of weeks ago,
16
54260
2000
大約二週前,
00:56
I was looking at the latest projection
17
56260
2000
我在看法國巴黎銀行
00:58
by BNP Paribas
18
58260
2000
最新的預測,
01:00
for when China
19
60260
3000
他們預測在什麽時候
01:03
will have a larger economy
20
63260
2000
中國的經濟規模
01:05
than the United States.
21
65260
2000
會超過美國。
01:07
Goldman Sachs projected 2027.
22
67260
4000
高盛預測會在2027年。
01:11
The post-crisis projection
23
71260
3000
而金融危機後的新預測
01:14
is 2020.
24
74260
3000
是2020年。
01:17
That's just a decade away.
25
77260
2000
而這只不過十年。
01:19
China is going to change the world
26
79260
4000
中國將會在兩個基本面上
01:23
in two fundamental respects.
27
83260
3000
改變世界。
01:26
First of all,
28
86260
2000
首先,
01:28
it's a huge developing country
29
88260
2000
中國是個巨大的發展中國家
01:30
with a population of 1.3 billion people,
30
90260
4000
擁有13億人口,
01:34
which has been growing for over 30 years
31
94260
3000
在過去的30年中
01:37
at around 10 percent a year.
32
97260
2000
以每年近10%的速度成長。
01:39
And within a decade,
33
99260
2000
在十年內
01:41
it will have the largest economy in the world.
34
101260
4000
將會成爲世界最大的經濟體。
01:45
Never before in the modern era
35
105260
3000
在現代史上,
01:48
has the largest economy in the world
36
108260
3000
過去一向都是已開發國家
01:51
been that of a developing country,
37
111260
2000
而從來沒有任何一個發展中國家
01:53
rather than a developed country.
38
113260
3000
成爲世界最大的經濟體。
01:57
Secondly,
39
117260
2000
其次,
01:59
for the first time in the modern era,
40
119260
2000
在現代史上首次
02:01
the dominant country in the world --
41
121260
2000
主宰世界的國家
02:03
which I think is what China will become --
42
123260
3000
-- 我個人認為將會是中國 --
02:06
will be not from the West
43
126260
3000
不會是西方的國家,
02:09
and from very, very different civilizational roots.
44
129260
4000
而是來自一個非常不一樣的文明根柢。
02:13
Now, I know it's a widespread assumption in the West
45
133260
4000
我知道西方國家普遍有這樣的假設:
02:17
that as countries modernize,
46
137260
3000
一個國家的現代化
02:20
they also westernize.
47
140260
2000
也就意味著西方化。
02:22
This is an illusion.
48
142260
2000
這是個不切實際的說法。
02:24
It's an assumption that modernity
49
144260
2000
這樣的假設是簡單的將現代化看做
02:26
is a product simply of competition, markets and technology.
50
146260
3000
是由競爭、市場和科技所構成的產物。
02:29
It is not. It is also shaped equally
51
149260
2000
而事實並非如此,
02:31
by history and culture.
52
151260
2000
現代化也均等的受到歷史和文化的影響。
02:33
China is not like the West,
53
153260
3000
中國和西方國家不同,
02:36
and it will not become like the West.
54
156260
3000
而且中國也不會變成像西方國家一樣,
02:39
It will remain in very fundamental respects
55
159260
2000
中國會持續的保留
02:41
very different.
56
161260
2000
他和西方的根本差異。
02:43
Now the big question here is obviously,
57
163260
3000
現在最大的問題,很明顯的
02:46
how do we make sense of China?
58
166260
2000
就是我們該怎樣來解讀中國?
02:48
How do we try to understand what China is?
59
168260
2000
我們該如何試著去了解,中國到底是怎樣的一個國家?
02:50
And the problem we have in the West at the moment, by and large,
60
170260
3000
大體上西方現在的問題,
02:53
is that the conventional approach
61
173260
2000
在於我們的傳統方法是
02:55
is that we understand it really in Western terms,
62
175260
2000
用西方的術語
02:57
using Western ideas.
63
177260
3000
和思想來了解中國。
03:00
We can't.
64
180260
2000
這是行不通的。
03:02
Now I want to offer you
65
182260
2000
現在我想提供
03:04
three building blocks
66
184260
2000
三個基本理由,
03:06
for trying to understand what China is like,
67
186260
3000
來試著了解中國,
03:09
just as a beginning.
68
189260
2000
這只是一個開始。
03:11
The first is this:
69
191260
2000
首先,
03:13
that China is not really a nation-state.
70
193260
3000
中國不能真正的稱為一個 "國家"。
03:16
Okay, it's called itself a nation-state
71
196260
2000
好吧,雖然在近一百年來
03:18
for the last hundred years,
72
198260
2000
中國自稱是一個 "國家",
03:20
but everyone who knows anything about China
73
200260
2000
但是任何熟悉中國的人都知道,
03:22
knows it's a lot older than this.
74
202260
2000
中國的歷史遠超過一百年。
03:24
This was what China looked like with the victory of the Qin Dynasty
75
204260
3000
這是西元前221年中國的地圖,
03:27
in 221 B.C. at the end of the warring-state period --
76
207260
3000
秦朝統一天下,結束戰國時期的紛爭,
03:30
the birth of modern China.
77
210260
2000
為現代中國的萌芽。
03:32
And you can see it against the boundaries of modern China.
78
212260
3000
你們可以看到現代中國的邊界線。
03:35
Or immediately afterward, the Han Dynasty,
79
215260
2000
或是秦代之後的漢代,這一張是漢代的地圖,
03:37
still 2,000 years ago.
80
217260
2000
它還是兩千年前的地圖。
03:39
And you can see already it occupies
81
219260
2000
你們可以看到當時中國已經佔領了
03:41
most of what we now know as Eastern China,
82
221260
2000
現在中國東部的大部分。
03:43
which is where the vast majority of Chinese lived then
83
223260
3000
這個區域從過去到現在一直是
03:46
and live now.
84
226260
2000
絕大多數的中國人居住的地方。
03:48
Now what is extraordinary about this
85
228260
2000
是什麼讓它顯得奇特呢?
03:50
is, what gives China its sense of being China,
86
230260
3000
關鍵在於是什麼讓中國感到 "身為中國",
03:53
what gives the Chinese
87
233260
3000
是什麼讓中國人覺得做為
03:56
the sense of what it is to be Chinese,
88
236260
3000
一個中國人的要素,
03:59
comes not from the last hundred years,
89
239260
2000
這不應該從最近的一百年來看,
04:01
not from the nation-state period,
90
241260
2000
也不該和西方的歷史一樣
04:03
which is what happened in the West,
91
243260
3000
是從有 "國家概念" 的這段時期來看,
04:06
but from the period, if you like,
92
246260
2000
而是從兩千年前的
04:08
of the civilization-state.
93
248260
2000
(中國) 文明"邦國"就開始了。
04:10
I'm thinking here, for example,
94
250260
3000
我正在想的,舉例子來說,
04:13
of customs like ancestral worship,
95
253260
3000
譬如,祭拜祖先的習俗、
04:16
of a very distinctive notion of the state,
96
256260
3000
對 "國家" 的觀念賦予獨特的定義、
04:19
likewise, a very distinctive notion of the family,
97
259260
3000
和這類似地, 賦予"家庭" 獨特的定義、
04:22
social relationships like guanxi,
98
262260
2000
社會人際“關係”、
04:24
Confucian values and so on.
99
264260
2000
及儒家的倫理價值等等。
04:26
These are all things that come
100
266260
2000
這些都是從二千年前
04:28
from the period of the civilization-state.
101
268260
3000
就流傳下來的文化。
04:31
In other words, China, unlike the Western states and most countries in the world,
102
271260
3000
換句話說,中國和西方國家及世界上大部分的國家不同點,
04:34
is shaped by its sense of civilization,
103
274260
3000
在於中國擁有自己獨特的文明
04:37
its existence as a civilization-state,
104
277260
2000
以一種文明 "邦國" 的獨特方式存在,
04:39
rather than as a nation-state.
105
279260
2000
而非西方的 "國家" 觀念。
04:41
And there's one other thing to add to this, and that is this:
106
281260
3000
針對這點我還可以補充説明:
04:44
Of course we know China's big, huge,
107
284260
2000
我們都知道,就人口和地理上來說,
04:46
demographically and geographically,
108
286260
3000
中國是個極龐大的國家,
04:49
with a population of 1.3 billion people.
109
289260
3000
擁有13億人口。
04:52
What we often aren't really aware of
110
292260
3000
有一項事實我們經常沒有真正注意到,
04:55
is the fact
111
295260
2000
那即是,
04:57
that China is extremely diverse
112
297260
2000
中國是個十分多樣性
04:59
and very pluralistic,
113
299260
2000
及多元化的國家,
05:01
and in many ways very decentralized.
114
301260
2000
在很多方面中央的權力是下放的。
05:03
You can't run a place on this scale simply from Beijing,
115
303260
3000
要從北京管理這麽大的地方是不可能的,
05:06
even though we think this to be the case.
116
306260
3000
儘管我們習以為常的認為這是事實。
05:09
It's never been the case.
117
309260
3000
但事實從來不是如此。
05:13
So this is China, a civilization-state,
118
313260
2000
因此,這就是中國,建立在一種文明 "邦國" 架構下的國家,
05:15
rather than a nation-state.
119
315260
2000
而非西方概念的 "國家"。
05:17
And what does it mean?
120
317260
2000
那麽,這是什麽意思?
05:19
Well, I think it has all sorts of profound implications.
121
319260
2000
我認為這有很多深層的意涵。
05:21
I'll give you two quick ones.
122
321260
2000
我將簡單的舉兩個例子來說明。
05:23
The first is that
123
323260
2000
首先,
05:25
the most important political value for the Chinese
124
325260
4000
對中國人來說,最重要的政治價值
05:29
is unity,
125
329260
2000
是統一,
05:31
is the maintenance
126
331260
2000
是維護
05:33
of Chinese civilization.
127
333260
2000
中華文明。
05:35
You know, 2,000 years ago, Europe:
128
335260
3000
大家都知道,2000年前歐洲
05:38
breakdown -- the fragmentation of the Holy Roman Empire.
129
338260
3000
因羅馬帝國的瓦解而分崩離析。
05:41
It divided, and it's remained divided ever since.
130
341260
3000
從那時候開始就一直維持著分裂的狀態。
05:44
China, over the same time period,
131
344260
2000
但相較之下,中國確在同一時期
05:46
went in exactly the opposite direction,
132
346260
2000
走向正好相反的統一道路,
05:48
very painfully holding this huge civilization,
133
348260
3000
費盡精神氣力以維護其龐大的文明,
05:51
civilization-state, together.
134
351260
3000
並維繫該文明 "邦國" 的統一。
05:54
The second
135
354260
2000
其次
05:56
is maybe more prosaic,
136
356260
2000
是香港的議題,可能相對地
05:58
which is Hong Kong.
137
358260
2000
沒有那麼突出。
06:00
Do you remember the handover of Hong Kong
138
360260
3000
大家都還記得香港
06:03
by Britain to China in 1997?
139
363260
2000
在1997年從英國的手上回歸中國?
06:05
You may remember
140
365260
2000
大家也可能還記得
06:07
what the Chinese constitutional proposition was.
141
367260
2000
當時中國的憲法議案為:
06:09
One country, two systems.
142
369260
2000
一國兩制。
06:11
And I'll lay a wager
143
371260
2000
我敢打賭
06:13
that barely anyone in the West believed them.
144
373260
2000
當時西方國家大概沒有人會相信這樣的政策。
06:15
"Window dressing.
145
375260
2000
『認為只是裝飾門面,
06:17
When China gets its hands on Hong Kong,
146
377260
2000
等中國真的接收香港後,
06:19
that won't be the case."
147
379260
2000
不可能會實施一國兩制。』
06:21
Thirteen years on,
148
381260
2000
13年後的今天
06:23
the political and legal system in Hong Kong
149
383260
2000
香港的政治和法律制度
06:25
is as different now as it was in 1997.
150
385260
3000
還是如同1997年一樣,跟中國的不同。
06:28
We were wrong. Why were we wrong?
151
388260
3000
我們錯了,這是爲什麽?
06:31
We were wrong because we thought, naturally enough,
152
391260
3000
我們錯了,因爲我們自然而然地
06:34
in nation-state ways.
153
394260
2000
將中國套上西方概念的 "國家" 方式。
06:36
Think of German unification, 1990.
154
396260
2000
回想一下,1990年東西德的統一。
06:38
What happened?
155
398260
2000
發生什麼事呢?
06:40
Well, basically the East was swallowed by the West.
156
400260
2000
基本上東德被西德併吞了。
06:42
One nation, one system.
157
402260
2000
一個國家,一個體制。
06:44
That is the nation-state mentality.
158
404260
3000
這是西方的國家概念心態。
06:47
But you can't run a country like China,
159
407260
3000
但是你不能用西方的國家概念,
06:50
a civilization-state,
160
410260
2000
以單一文明及單一體制為基礎,
06:52
on the basis of one civilization, one system.
161
412260
3000
來治理像中國這樣以 "文明邦國"為架構的國家。
06:55
It doesn't work.
162
415260
2000
這是行不通的。
06:57
So actually the response of China
163
417260
3000
因此,中國
07:00
to the question of Hong Kong --
164
420260
2000
對香港議題的回應
07:02
as it will be to the question of Taiwan --
165
422260
2000
也將可以套用在臺灣的議題,
07:04
was a natural response:
166
424260
2000
很自然地回應,那即是:
07:06
one civilization, many systems.
167
426260
3000
單一文明,多元體制。
07:09
Let me offer you another building block
168
429260
2000
現在讓我再提供另外一個觀點,
07:11
to try and understand China --
169
431260
2000
以試著來了解中國,
07:13
maybe not sort of a comfortable one.
170
433260
3000
這個觀點也許不那麼令人怡悅。
07:16
The Chinese have a very, very different
171
436260
2000
中國人對民族的觀念
07:18
conception of race
172
438260
2000
跟其他大部分的國家比起來
07:20
to most other countries.
173
440260
3000
有極大的差別。
07:23
Do you know,
174
443260
2000
你知道嗎?
07:25
of the 1.3 billion Chinese,
175
445260
3000
在13億中國人裏
07:28
over 90 percent of them
176
448260
2000
有90%以上的人
07:30
think they belong to the same race,
177
450260
3000
都認爲自己是屬於同一民族──
07:33
the Han?
178
453260
2000
漢族。
07:35
Now, this is completely different
179
455260
2000
這跟世界上
07:37
from the world's [other] most populous countries.
180
457260
3000
其他人口衆多的國家是完全不一樣的,
07:40
India, the United States,
181
460260
2000
例如印度、美國
07:42
Indonesia, Brazil --
182
462260
3000
印尼、巴西,
07:45
all of them are multiracial.
183
465260
3000
這些國家都是多種族的
07:48
The Chinese don't feel like that.
184
468260
3000
中國人自己不認爲如此。
07:51
China is only multiracial
185
471260
2000
若勉爲其難地稱中國是個多種族國家,
07:53
really at the margins.
186
473260
3000
那也就是在邊緣的那些少數民族。
07:56
So the question is, why?
187
476260
2000
因此,我們要問,爲什麽會這樣呢?
07:58
Well the reason, I think, essentially
188
478260
2000
理由很簡單,我認為基本上
08:00
is, again, back to the civilization-state.
189
480260
3000
還是回到老話題──中國是一個 "文明邦國"。
08:03
A history of at least 2,000 years,
190
483260
3000
中國擁有超過2000年的歷史,
08:06
a history of conquest, occupation,
191
486260
2000
其歷史充滿了征服、佔領、
08:08
absorption, assimilation and so on,
192
488260
2000
吸收、同化等等,
08:10
led to the process by which,
193
490260
2000
在這經年累月的過程,
08:12
over time, this notion of the Han emerged --
194
492260
3000
而衍生了漢民族的概念;
08:15
of course, nurtured
195
495260
2000
當然,這個概念
08:17
by a growing and very powerful sense
196
497260
3000
逐漸地受到強力的文化認同感的
08:20
of cultural identity.
197
500260
3000
滋養與增強。
08:23
Now the great advantage of this historical experience
198
503260
3000
這段歷史經驗的最大優點
08:26
has been that, without the Han,
199
506260
4000
告訴我們,假若沒有漢民族,
08:30
China could never have held together.
200
510260
2000
中國是不可能會統一的。
08:32
The Han identity has been the cement
201
512260
3000
漢民族一直像是膠合劑一樣
08:35
which has held this country together.
202
515260
3000
將整個國家凝聚結合在一起。
08:38
The great disadvantage of it
203
518260
2000
然而,這段歷史經驗的最大缺點
08:40
is that the Han have a very weak conception
204
520260
2000
就是漢民族對文化差異的觀念
08:42
of cultural difference.
205
522260
2000
很微薄。
08:44
They really believe
206
524260
3000
漢族真的相信
08:47
in their own superiority,
207
527260
2000
自己種族的優越性,
08:49
and they are disrespectful
208
529260
2000
同時他們對其它族群
08:51
of those who are not.
209
531260
2000
並不尊重。
08:53
Hence their attitude, for example,
210
533260
2000
舉他們對待
08:55
to the Uyghurs and to the Tibetans.
211
535260
3000
維吾爾人或西藏人的態度為例。
08:59
Or let me give you my third building block,
212
539260
2000
或是讓我來提出第三個理由──
09:01
the Chinese state.
213
541260
2000
中國式的國家。
09:03
Now the relationship
214
543260
2000
現在,在中國,
09:05
between the state and society in China
215
545260
3000
國家和社會的關係
09:08
is very different from that in the West.
216
548260
3000
跟西方國家有極大的差異。
09:12
Now we in the West
217
552260
2000
現在我們西方國家
09:14
overwhelmingly seem to think -- in these days at least --
218
554260
2000
絕大多數的人似乎會認為,至少在現今,
09:16
that the authority and legitimacy of the state
219
556260
4000
國家的權力和合法性
09:20
is a function of democracy.
220
560260
3000
是民主的功能。
09:23
The problem with this proposition
221
563260
2000
這個論述的問題在於,
09:25
is that the Chinese state
222
565260
4000
在中國
09:29
enjoys more legitimacy
223
569260
2000
人民享有更多的
09:31
and more authority
224
571260
2000
合法性
09:33
amongst the Chinese
225
573260
3000
及權力
09:36
than is true
226
576260
2000
如跟任何西方國家
09:38
with any Western state.
227
578260
3000
相比較。
09:42
And the reason for this
228
582260
2000
它的理由
09:44
is because --
229
584260
2000
是因為──
09:46
well, there are two reasons, I think.
230
586260
2000
我認爲,原因有兩個。
09:48
And it's obviously got nothing to do with democracy,
231
588260
2000
而且很明顯地和民主一點關係都沒有,
09:50
because in our terms the Chinese certainly don't have a democracy.
232
590260
3000
因為以我們的術語來看,很確定的中國是沒有民主的。
09:53
And the reason for this is,
233
593260
2000
原因在於
09:55
firstly, because the state in China
234
595260
3000
首先,在中國
09:58
is given a very special --
235
598260
3000
國家被賦予一個很特別的──
10:01
it enjoys a very special significance
236
601260
2000
享有很特殊的地位,
10:03
as the representative,
237
603260
2000
國家同時是中華文明的代表
10:05
the embodiment and the guardian
238
605260
3000
及化身,
10:08
of Chinese civilization,
239
608260
2000
也是中華文明及 "文明邦國"
10:10
of the civilization-state.
240
610260
3000
的捍衛者。
10:13
This is as close as China gets
241
613260
2000
它的地位
10:15
to a kind of spiritual role.
242
615260
3000
近乎一種精神式的象徵。
10:19
And the second reason is because,
243
619260
2000
第二個原因,
10:21
whereas in Europe
244
621260
2000
在歐洲
10:23
and North America,
245
623260
2000
及北美洲
10:25
the state's power is continuously challenged --
246
625260
3000
國家的權力不斷地受到挑戰──
10:28
I mean in the European tradition,
247
628260
2000
我指的是歐洲傳統上,
10:30
historically against the church,
248
630260
2000
在歷史上受到來自教廷、
10:32
against other sectors of the aristocracy,
249
632260
2000
其他派別的貴族
10:34
against merchants and so on --
250
634260
2000
及商人等等的挑戰──
10:36
for 1,000 years,
251
636260
2000
然而,1000年以來
10:38
the power of the Chinese state
252
638260
2000
"國家" 的地位在中國
10:40
has not been challenged.
253
640260
2000
從沒被挑戰過。
10:42
It's had no serious rivals.
254
642260
3000
中國還沒有強力的對手與之抗衡。
10:46
So you can see
255
646260
2000
因此你可以看出,
10:48
that the way in which power has been constructed in China
256
648260
4000
中國權力建構的方式
10:52
is very different from our experience
257
652260
2000
從我們西方的歷史經驗來看
10:54
in Western history.
258
654260
3000
二者是十分迥異的。
10:57
The result, by the way,
259
657260
2000
因此,
10:59
is that the Chinese have a very different view of the state.
260
659260
4000
中國對 "國家" 的觀念和我們截然不同。
11:04
Whereas we tend to view it as an intruder,
261
664260
3000
我們傾向視國家為侵入者、
11:07
a stranger,
262
667260
3000
外來者,
11:10
certainly an organ
263
670260
2000
而且理所當然的,國家是一個機構,
11:12
whose powers need to be limited
264
672260
3000
它的權利需要被限制、
11:15
or defined and constrained,
265
675260
2000
定義及約束,
11:17
the Chinese don't see the state like that at all.
266
677260
2000
然而,中國人對 "國家" 的看法並非如此。
11:19
The Chinese view the state
267
679260
3000
在他們的觀念裏,
11:22
as an intimate -- not just as an intimate actually,
268
682260
3000
國家和他們是緊密相連的──不僅是普通的親密,
11:25
as a member of the family --
269
685260
2000
而是像家族成員一樣的,
11:27
not just in fact as a member of the family,
270
687260
2000
而且國家不僅是家族的一員
11:29
but as the head of the family,
271
689260
2000
更是家族的
11:31
the patriarch of the family.
272
691260
2000
大家長。
11:33
This is the Chinese view of the state --
273
693260
3000
這是中國人的國家觀,
11:36
very, very different to ours.
274
696260
2000
非常迥異於我們的觀念。
11:38
It's embedded in society in a different kind of way
275
698260
3000
中國人的國家與社會連結的模式
11:41
to what is the case
276
701260
2000
是有別於
11:43
in the West.
277
703260
2000
西方國家的。
11:45
And I would suggest to you that actually what we are dealing with here,
278
705260
3000
我想要建議的是,我們現在所要處理的,
11:48
in the Chinese context,
279
708260
3000
是以中國為背景的
11:51
is a new kind of paradigm,
280
711260
2000
一種新的模式,
11:53
which is different from anything
281
713260
2000
這跟我們西方國家過去所想的
11:55
we've had to think about in the past.
282
715260
3000
截然不同。
11:59
Know that China believes in the market and the state.
283
719260
3000
知道嗎? 中國相信市場及國家的效用。
12:02
I mean, Adam Smith,
284
722260
2000
我的意思是,亞當史密斯
12:04
already writing in the late 18th century, said,
285
724260
3000
早在18世紀晚期就已經寫道:
12:07
"The Chinese market is larger and more developed
286
727260
2000
『中國市場比任何歐洲市場
12:09
and more sophisticated
287
729260
2000
都還要大,都還要發達
12:11
than anything in Europe."
288
731260
2000
而且還要複雜。』
12:13
And, apart from the Mao period,
289
733260
2000
除了在毛澤東時期外,
12:15
that has remained more or less the case ever since.
290
735260
2000
一直到現在亞當斯密的觀點大致是正確的。
12:17
But this is combined
291
737260
2000
但這樣的市場
12:19
with an extremely strong and ubiquitous state.
292
739260
4000
是因為有一個十分強力的國家為後盾。
12:23
The state is everywhere in China.
293
743260
2000
在中國,"國家" 是無所不在的。
12:25
I mean, it's leading firms --
294
745260
2000
國家帶領企業的發展,
12:27
many of them are still publicly owned.
295
747260
3000
很多企業到現在還是國有。
12:30
Private firms, however large they are, like Lenovo,
296
750260
3000
私人企業再怎麽大,在很多方面
12:33
depend in many ways on state patronage.
297
753260
2000
還是需要依賴國家的資助,例如聯想電腦。
12:35
Targets for the economy and so on
298
755260
2000
經濟成長等目標
12:37
are set by the state.
299
757260
2000
是由國家設定。
12:39
And the state, of course, its authority flows into lots of other areas --
300
759260
2000
此外,國家的權力還延伸至其他很多的領域,
12:41
as we are familiar with --
301
761260
2000
例如我們所熟知的
12:43
with something like the one-child policy.
302
763260
2000
一胎化政策。
12:45
Moreover, this is a very old state tradition,
303
765260
3000
再者,這是很悠久的國家傳統了,
12:48
a very old tradition of statecraft.
304
768260
2000
一項古老傳統的治國權術。
12:50
I mean, if you want an illustration of this,
305
770260
3000
我的意思是,如果你想要看這樣的例子,
12:53
the Great Wall is one.
306
773260
2000
那麼萬里長城便是。
12:55
But this is another, this is the Grand Canal,
307
775260
2000
這裡還有另一個例子──大運河,
12:57
which was constructed in the first instance
308
777260
2000
大運河的建設
12:59
in the fifth century B.C.
309
779260
2000
開始於公元前五世紀,
13:01
and was finally completed
310
781260
2000
最後完峻於
13:03
in the seventh century A.D.
311
783260
2000
公元七世紀。
13:05
It went for 1,114 miles,
312
785260
4000
全長1114英里,
13:09
linking Beijing
313
789260
2000
連接了北京
13:11
with Hangzhou and Shanghai.
314
791260
3000
杭州和上海。
13:14
So there's a long history
315
794260
2000
因此,在中國
13:16
of extraordinary state infrastructural projects
316
796260
3000
由國家主導的大型基礎建設,
13:19
in China,
317
799260
2000
已有很長的一段歷史。
13:21
which I suppose helps us to explain what we see today,
318
801260
3000
這或許可以幫助我們來解釋
13:24
which is something like the Three Gorges Dam
319
804260
2000
像三峽大壩這樣的建設,
13:26
and many other expressions
320
806260
2000
或是其他在中國境內
13:28
of state competence
321
808260
2000
可以展現
13:30
within China.
322
810260
2000
國家實力的建設。
13:32
So there we have three building blocks
323
812260
3000
因此,這就是我的三個根本理由
13:35
for trying to understand the difference that is China --
324
815260
3000
用來試著了解中國和西方的差異:
13:38
the civilization-state,
325
818260
3000
文明 "邦國"、
13:41
the notion of race
326
821260
2000
種族的觀念、
13:43
and the nature of the state
327
823260
2000
和國家的本質
13:45
and its relationship to society.
328
825260
3000
以及國家和社會的關係。
13:48
And yet we still insist, by and large,
329
828260
3000
然而,我們西方國家還是十分堅持地
13:51
in thinking that we can understand China
330
831260
4000
認為我們能了解中國,
13:55
by simply drawing on Western experience,
331
835260
3000
僅簡單的憑藉西方的經驗,
13:58
looking at it through Western eyes,
332
838260
3000
用西方的眼光及
14:01
using Western concepts.
333
841260
2000
概念來看中國。
14:03
If you want to know why
334
843260
2000
如果你想知道
14:05
we unerringly seem to get China wrong --
335
845260
3000
爲什麽我們老是誤解中國,
14:08
our predictions about what's going to happen to China are incorrect --
336
848260
3000
爲什麽我們對中國的預測不準確,
14:11
this is the reason.
337
851260
4000
原因就在這裡。
14:15
Unfortunately, I think,
338
855260
2000
很不幸地,
14:17
I have to say that I think
339
857260
3000
我必須指出,我認爲
14:20
attitude towards China
340
860260
2000
我們對中國的態度
14:22
is that of a kind of little Westerner mentality.
341
862260
3000
是一種小西方人的心態,
14:25
It's kind of arrogant.
342
865260
2000
這是一種高傲的心態。
14:27
It's arrogant in the sense
343
867260
2000
這種高傲也就是,
14:29
that we think that we are best,
344
869260
2000
認為我們是最好的,
14:31
and therefore we have the universal measure.
345
871260
3000
因此我們制定了普世的權衡標準。
14:35
And secondly, it's ignorant.
346
875260
2000
再來,是無知,
14:37
We refuse to really address
347
877260
3000
我們拒絕真正地去
14:40
the issue of difference.
348
880260
2000
處理差異性的問題。
14:42
You know, there's a very interesting passage
349
882260
2000
在著名的美國歷史學家保羅柯恩 ( Paul Cohen)的書裏,
14:44
in a book by Paul Cohen, the American historian.
350
884260
3000
有一段很有趣的敘述。
14:47
And Paul Cohen argues
351
887260
3000
他表示
14:50
that the West thinks of itself
352
890260
4000
西方國家認爲自己的文化
14:54
as probably the most cosmopolitan
353
894260
2000
大概是所有文化中
14:56
of all cultures.
354
896260
2000
最具有世界性的。
14:58
But it's not.
355
898260
2000
事實並非如此。
15:00
In many ways,
356
900260
2000
在很多方面
15:02
it's the most parochial,
357
902260
2000
它是最狹隘的,
15:04
because for 200 years,
358
904260
3000
因爲200年以來
15:07
the West has been so dominant in the world
359
907260
3000
西方國家一直在這世界上佔著優勢的地位,
15:10
that it's not really needed
360
910260
2000
以至於他們不需要
15:12
to understand other cultures,
361
912260
3000
去了解其它的文化
15:15
other civilizations.
362
915260
2000
及文明。
15:17
Because, at the end of the day,
363
917260
2000
因為,到頭來
15:19
it could, if necessary by force,
364
919260
3000
真的有需要的話,可以用武力征服
15:22
get its own way.
365
922260
2000
而達成目的。
15:24
Whereas those cultures --
366
924260
2000
然而那些文化──
15:26
virtually the rest of the world, in fact,
367
926260
3000
實際上就是西方國家以外的文化,
15:29
which have been in a far weaker position, vis-a-vis the West --
368
929260
3000
相對於西方文化它們一直處於弱勢,
15:32
have been thereby forced to understand the West,
369
932260
3000
也因此被迫去了解西方文化,
15:35
because of the West's presence in those societies.
370
935260
3000
因為西方文化已在那些社會裏產生影響力。
15:38
And therefore, they are, as a result,
371
938260
3000
因此,這些社會反而在很多方面
15:41
more cosmopolitan in many ways than the West.
372
941260
3000
都比西方國家還具有世界性。
15:44
I mean, take the question of East Asia.
373
944260
2000
以東亞的問題來講,
15:46
East Asia: Japan, Korea, China, etc. --
374
946260
3000
東亞國家如日本、韓國、中國等,
15:49
a third of the world's population lives there.
375
949260
2000
世界上三分之一的人口住在那裏,
15:51
Now the largest economic region in the world.
376
951260
2000
現在是全球最大的經濟區域。
15:53
And I'll tell you now,
377
953260
2000
我現在可以告訴你
15:55
that East Asianers, people from East Asia,
378
955260
2000
東亞地區的人們
15:57
are far more knowledgeable
379
957260
2000
對西方國家的認識,
15:59
about the West
380
959260
2000
遠遠超過
16:01
than the West is about East Asia.
381
961260
4000
西方國家對東亞的認識。
16:05
Now this point is very germane, I'm afraid,
382
965260
3000
恐怕我也必須說
16:08
to the present.
383
968260
2000
這個觀點跟目前的情勢是很切合的。
16:10
Because what's happening? Back to that chart at the beginning,
384
970260
3000
到底怎麼了?再回到開始的
16:13
the Goldman Sachs chart.
385
973260
2000
那張高盛的圖表。
16:15
What is happening
386
975260
2000
以歷史的術語來說
16:17
is that, very rapidly in historical terms,
387
977260
3000
現在正在發生的事很快速地,
16:20
the world is being driven
388
980260
3000
帶領
16:23
and shaped,
389
983260
2000
及影響這世界的,
16:25
not by the old developed countries,
390
985260
2000
不再是過去的已開發國家,
16:27
but by the developing world.
391
987260
2000
而是開發中國家。
16:29
We've seen this
392
989260
2000
我們已經看到
16:31
in terms of the G20
393
991260
2000
G20高峰會
16:33
usurping very rapidly the position of the G7,
394
993260
3000
很快地就取代了G7高峰會
16:36
or the G8.
395
996260
3000
或G8高峰會的地位。
16:40
And there are two consequences of this.
396
1000260
3000
這產生了兩項結果:
16:43
First, the West
397
1003260
2000
首先,西方國家
16:45
is rapidly losing
398
1005260
2000
對這世界的影響力
16:47
its influence in the world.
399
1007260
2000
正快速地削弱。
16:49
There was a dramatic illustration of this actually a year ago --
400
1009260
3000
一年前有一個很戲劇性的例子──
16:52
Copenhagen, climate change conference.
401
1012260
2000
哥本哈根的世界氣候會議。
16:54
Europe was not at the final negotiating table.
402
1014260
2000
最後的談判桌上沒有歐洲的份。
16:56
When did that last happen?
403
1016260
2000
上次歐洲被摒除在談判桌外是什麽時候的事呢?
16:58
I would wager it was probably about 200 years ago.
404
1018260
3000
我敢說大概是200年以前吧!
17:01
And that is what is going to happen in the future.
405
1021260
3000
而這也是未來將會發生的事。
17:04
And the second implication
406
1024260
2000
其次,
17:06
is that the world will inevitably, as a consequence,
407
1026260
3000
這個世界將無可避免地
17:09
become increasingly unfamiliar to us,
408
1029260
4000
變得和我們越來越陌生,
17:13
because it'll be shaped by cultures and experiences and histories
409
1033260
3000
因為這世界將會受到我們所不熟悉的
17:16
that we are not really familiar with,
410
1036260
3000
文化、經驗及歷史
17:19
or conversant with.
411
1039260
2000
的影響。
17:21
And at last, I'm afraid -- take Europe;
412
1041260
2000
最後,我很怕拿歐洲來説,
17:23
America is slightly different --
413
1043260
2000
美國的情形稍微不一樣,
17:25
but Europeans by and large, I have to say,
414
1045260
3000
但是我必須說,大體上歐洲人
17:28
are ignorant,
415
1048260
3000
是無知的,
17:31
are unaware
416
1051260
2000
他們還沒意識到
17:33
about the way the world is changing.
417
1053260
3000
世界正在改變的方式。
17:36
Some people -- I've got an English friend in China,
418
1056260
3000
有些人-- 我有個在中國的英國朋友,
17:39
and he said, "The continent is sleepwalking into oblivion."
419
1059260
3000
他說:『歐洲大陸正在夢遊逐漸進入沉睡當中。』
17:44
Well, maybe that's true,
420
1064260
2000
這可能是真的,
17:46
maybe that's an exaggeration.
421
1066260
2000
也可能誇張了一點。
17:48
But there's another problem which goes along with this --
422
1068260
3000
但是隨著這個現象而來的另一個問題,
17:51
that Europe is increasingly out of touch with the world --
423
1071260
3000
就是歐洲已越來越和這個世界脫節,
17:54
and that is a sort of
424
1074260
3000
這其實也是對未來的
17:57
loss of a sense of the future.
425
1077260
2000
無所適從。
17:59
I mean, Europe once, of course, once commanded the future
426
1079260
3000
我的意思是歐洲曾經自信滿滿的
18:02
in its confidence.
427
1082260
2000
引領未來。
18:04
Take the 19th century, for example.
428
1084260
3000
譬如說,在19世紀的時候
18:07
But this, alas, is no longer true.
429
1087260
3000
但是,很可惜地,這已不再是如此。
18:10
If you want to feel the future, if you want to taste the future,
430
1090260
3000
你若是想要感覺或體會未來會是什麽樣,
18:13
try China -- there's old Confucius.
431
1093260
3000
你該到中國看看,那兒有孔老夫子。
18:16
This is a railway station
432
1096260
2000
這是個火車站,
18:18
the likes of which you've never seen before.
433
1098260
2000
你從沒看過這樣的火車站。
18:20
It doesn't even look like a railway station.
434
1100260
2000
它甚至看起來還不像火車站。
18:22
This is the new [Wuhan] railway station
435
1102260
2000
這是新的廣州火車站,
18:24
for the high-speed trains.
436
1104260
2000
廣州高速鐵路火車站。
18:26
China already has a bigger network
437
1106260
2000
中國已經擁有全球
18:28
than any other country in the world
438
1108260
2000
最大的鐵路網路,
18:30
and will soon have more than all the rest of the world put together.
439
1110260
4000
而且不久就會超過全球鐵路網的總合。
18:34
Or take this: now this is an idea,
440
1114260
2000
或是這個:這是新的主意,
18:36
but it's an idea to be tried out shortly
441
1116260
3000
但是,很快的這個主意
18:39
in a suburb of Beijing.
442
1119260
2000
將會在北京的郊區試驗。
18:41
Here you have a megabus,
443
1121260
3000
這是一台超級公車,
18:44
on the upper deck carries about 2,000 people.
444
1124260
3000
上層可乘載約2000人。
18:47
It travels on rails
445
1127260
2000
它運行在鐵軌上,
18:49
down a suburban road,
446
1129260
2000
軌道下方是一條往郊區的道路,
18:51
and the cars travel underneath it.
447
1131260
3000
汽車就在軌道下方穿梭行駛。
18:54
And it does speeds of up to about 100 miles an hour.
448
1134260
3000
它的時速可以達到100英里。
18:57
Now this is the way things are going to move,
449
1137260
3000
這是未來發展的趨勢,
19:00
because China has a very specific problem,
450
1140260
2000
因為中國有個很特殊的問題,
19:02
which is different from Europe
451
1142260
2000
和歐洲不一樣,
19:04
and different from the United States:
452
1144260
2000
也和美國不一樣。
19:06
China has huge numbers of people and no space.
453
1146260
3000
問題在於,中國有龐大的人口但有限的空間。
19:09
So this is a solution to a situation
454
1149260
2000
因此,北京的試驗可做為範例,
19:11
where China's going to have
455
1151260
2000
為其它城市提供一個解決方案,
19:13
many, many, many cities
456
1153260
2000
因為中國將會有更多的城市
19:15
over 20 million people.
457
1155260
2000
其人口超過2千萬。
19:17
Okay, so how would I like to finish?
458
1157260
3000
那麼,我該怎麽來下結論呢?
19:20
Well, what should our attitude be
459
1160260
3000
我們該用什麽態度
19:23
towards this world
460
1163260
3000
來面對這個
19:26
that we see
461
1166260
2000
在我們眼前
19:28
very rapidly developing
462
1168260
2000
快速發展的
19:30
before us?
463
1170260
2000
世界呢?
19:33
I think there will be good things about it and there will be bad things about it.
464
1173260
3000
我想對我們來説它是好壞參半。
19:36
But I want to argue, above all,
465
1176260
2000
但是總而言之,
19:38
a big-picture positive for this world.
466
1178260
3000
我想為這世界提出較樂觀正向的藍圖。
19:43
For 200 years,
467
1183260
2000
200年以來,
19:45
the world was essentially governed
468
1185260
6000
這個世界基本上
19:51
by a fragment of the human population.
469
1191260
4000
是由全球人口中的一部分人所統治的。
19:55
That's what Europe and North America represented.
470
1195260
4000
歐洲和北美洲就是典型的代表。
19:59
The arrival of countries
471
1199260
2000
其它國家的崛起
20:01
like China and India --
472
1201260
2000
如中國和印度──
20:03
between them 38 percent of the world's population --
473
1203260
2000
這兩國擁有世界38%的人口──
20:05
and others like Indonesia and Brazil and so on,
474
1205260
3000
還有其他像印尼和巴西等等,
20:11
represent the most important single act
475
1211260
3000
展現了過去200年以來
20:14
of democratization
476
1214260
2000
最重要的一次
20:16
in the last 200 years.
477
1216260
2000
民主化過程。
20:18
Civilizations and cultures,
478
1218260
2000
過去被忽略的、無聲的、
20:20
which had been ignored, which had no voice,
479
1220260
3000
不被傾聽的、不為人知的
20:23
which were not listened to, which were not known about,
480
1223260
2000
這些文明和文化
20:25
will have a different sort
481
1225260
2000
將會用不同的方式
20:27
of representation in this world.
482
1227260
3000
呈現在這個世界。
20:30
As humanists, we must welcome, surely,
483
1230260
2000
身為人道主義者,我們當然要歡迎
20:32
this transformation,
484
1232260
2000
這樣的轉變。
20:34
and we will have to learn
485
1234260
2000
而且我們將必須去學習
20:36
about these civilizations.
486
1236260
2000
這些文明。
20:38
This big ship here
487
1238260
3000
這艘大船
20:41
was the one sailed in by Zheng He
488
1241260
2000
是15世紀初
20:43
in the early 15th century
489
1243260
2000
鄭和下西洋的船,
20:45
on his great voyages
490
1245260
2000
經中國的東海、南海
20:47
around the South China Sea, the East China Sea
491
1247260
3000
穿越印度洋到東非
20:50
and across the Indian Ocean to East Africa.
492
1250260
3000
的偉大航行。
20:53
The little boat in front of it
493
1253260
4000
在這艘船前方的小船
20:57
was the one in which, 80 years later,
494
1257260
2000
是80年後
20:59
Christopher Columbus crossed the Atlantic.
495
1259260
3000
哥倫布橫渡大西洋所駕馭的。
21:02
(Laughter)
496
1262260
2000
(笑聲)
21:04
Or, look carefully
497
1264260
2000
或者,看仔細一點
21:06
at this silk scroll
498
1266260
2000
這個絲畫軸
21:08
made by ZhuZhou
499
1268260
3000
是朱周(音譯)
21:11
in 1368.
500
1271260
3000
在1368年畫的
21:14
I think they're playing golf.
501
1274260
2000
我想他們正在打高爾夫球。
21:16
Christ, the Chinese even invented golf.
502
1276260
3000
天哪,連高爾夫球也是中國人發明的!
21:19
Welcome to the future. Thank you.
503
1279260
3000
歡迎來到未來。謝謝大家。
21:22
(Applause)
504
1282260
3000
(掌聲)
關於本網站

本網站將向您介紹對學習英語有用的 YouTube 視頻。 您將看到來自世界各地的一流教師教授的英語課程。 雙擊每個視頻頁面上顯示的英文字幕,從那裡播放視頻。 字幕與視頻播放同步滾動。 如果您有任何意見或要求,請使用此聯繫表與我們聯繫。

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7