9/11 healing: The mothers who found forgiveness, friendship

88,455 views ・ 2011-05-02

TED


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譯者: Suet Mei Hau 審譯者: Jennifer Lien
00:15
Phyllis Rodriguez: We are here today
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我們今天在此
00:18
because of the fact
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因為這個事實
00:20
that we have what most people consider
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我們擁有大多數人所認為的
00:22
an unusual friendship.
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不尋常的友情。
00:24
And it is.
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這是,
00:26
And yet, it feels natural to us now.
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即使如此, 但現在, 我們都感到很自然。
00:29
I first learned
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我第一次知道
00:31
that my son had been in the World Trade Center
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我的兒子在世界貿易中心
00:35
on the morning of September 11th, 2001.
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在二零零一年九月十一日的早上。
00:39
We didn't know
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我們並不知道
00:41
if he had perished yet
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他是否遇害
00:43
until 36 hours later.
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直到三十六小時之後。
00:48
At the time,
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當時,
00:50
we knew that it was political.
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我們知道這是政治的原因。
00:53
We were afraid of what our country was going to do
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我們都很擔心我們的國家將會做些什麼事
00:56
in the name of our son --
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以我們兒子之名---
00:58
my husband, Orlando, and I and our family.
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我的丈夫, 我, 以及我的家人
01:01
And when I saw it --
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當我們看到---
01:03
and yet, through the shock,
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雖然, 很震驚
01:05
the terrible shock,
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很可怕的震驚,
01:07
and the terrible explosion in our lives, literally,
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也是我們生命裡的可怕的爆炸
01:13
we were not vengeful.
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但是我們沒有想著要報仇。
01:16
And a couple of weeks later
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數個星期之後
01:18
when Zacarias Moussaoui was indicted
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當Zacharias Moussaoui 被指控
01:21
on six counts of conspiracy to commit terrorism,
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六項恐佈襲擊的陰謀時,
01:26
and the U.S. government called for a death penalty
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美國政府要求對他判處死刑
01:29
for him, if convicted,
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如果罪名成立的話。
01:31
my husband and I spoke out
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我和我的丈夫對公開
01:34
in opposition to that, publicly.
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反對這判決。
01:37
Through that
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透過這
01:39
and through human rights groups,
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也透過人權組織,
01:41
we were brought together
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我們跟
01:43
with several other victims' families.
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其他受害者家屬組織起來了
01:46
When I saw Aicha in the media,
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當我在媒體上看到Aichia,
01:49
coming over when her son was indicted,
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為她的兒子的起訴而走過來的時候,
01:52
and I thought, "What a brave woman.
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我在想: 「這真是一個勇敢的女人。
01:55
Someday I want to meet that woman when I'm stronger."
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我希望有一天, 當我強壯一點的時候, 可以跟她見面。」
01:58
I was still in deep grief;
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我仍在深深的哀傷之中;
02:00
I knew I didn't have the strength.
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我知道我沒有這份力氣。
02:02
I knew I would find her someday,
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但我知道我有一天會去找她,
02:04
or we would find each other.
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或, 我們會去找到對方。
02:06
Because, when people heard that my son was a victim,
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因為, 當別人聽到我的兒子是受害者,
02:10
I got immediate sympathy.
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我即時得到同情。
02:13
But when people learned
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但當人們知道
02:15
what her son was accused of,
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她的兒子所被指控的事,
02:17
she didn't get that sympathy.
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她沒有得到同樣的同情。
02:19
But her suffering is equal to mine.
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可是, 她的痛苦是跟我相同的。
02:22
So we met in November 2002,
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我們在二零零二年十一月相見。
02:25
and Aicha will now tell you
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現在Aicha會告訴你
02:28
how that came about.
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這些事情是怎樣發生的。
02:33
(Translator) Aicha el-Wafi: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
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〈傳譯〉Aicha el-Wafi:午安, 各位先生和女士。
02:39
I am the mother of Zacarias Moussaoui.
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我是Zacharias Moussaoui 的媽媽。
02:48
And I asked
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我去要求
02:53
the Organization of Human Rights
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人權組織
02:55
to put me in touch with the parents of the victims.
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讓我去接觸那些受害人的父母。
03:03
So they introduced me
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所以他們介紹我給
03:06
to five families.
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給五個家庭認識。
03:12
And I saw Phyllis, and I watched her.
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我看見Phyllis, 我一直留意著她。
03:17
She was the only mother in the group.
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她是那個小組裡唯一的媽媽。
03:22
The others were brothers, sisters.
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其他都是兄弟或是姊妹。
03:28
And I saw in her eyes
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我從她的眼睛看到
03:30
that she was a mother, just like me.
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她也是一個媽媽, 跟我一樣的。
03:34
I suffered a lot as a mother.
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我作為一個媽媽很痛苦。
03:41
I was married when I was 14.
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我十四歲便已經結了婚。
03:46
I lost a child when I was 15,
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我在十五歲的時候失去了一個孩子,
03:51
a second child when I was 16.
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當我十六歲時失去了第二個孩子。
03:57
So the story with Zacarias was too much really.
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所以和Zacharias的故事實在是太過深刻了。
04:03
And I still suffer,
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但我仍然痛苦,
04:07
because my son
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因為我兒子
04:09
is like he's buried alive.
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就像是被活埋了一樣。
04:14
I know she really cried for her son.
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我知道她真的為兒子而哭。
04:19
But she knows where he is.
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但她知道他在哪裡,
04:28
My son, I don't know where he is.
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我的兒子, 我不知道他在那裡。
04:30
I don't know if he's alive. I don't know if he's tortured.
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我不知道他是否仍然生存, 不知道他是否受到折磨。
04:32
I don't know what happened to him.
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我不知道他發生了什麼事。
04:38
So that's why I decided to tell my story,
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於是, 我決定去說我的故事,
04:40
so that my suffering is something positive for other women.
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希望令我痛苦的事, 對其他女性來說, 可以有正面的意義。
04:48
For all the women, all the mothers that give life,
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對所有的女人,所有賦予生命的媽媽,
04:55
you can give back,
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你可以貢獻,
04:57
you can change.
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你可以改變。
04:59
It's up to us women,
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這取決於我們女人,
05:02
because we are women,
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因為我們都是女人,
05:05
because we love our children.
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因為我們愛我們的孩子。
05:13
We must be hand-in-hand
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我們一定要手牽手
05:15
and do something together.
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一起去做一些事。
05:19
It's not against women,
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這不是反對女性
05:21
it's for us, for us women,
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這是為我們, 為我們女人
05:23
for our children.
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為我們的孩子。
05:34
I talk against violence, against terrorism.
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我講反抗暴力, 反抗恐佈主義。
05:37
I go to schools
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我去學校
05:39
to talk to young, Muslim girls
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跟年青的伊斯蘭女孩講說
05:42
so they don't accept to be married against their will very young.
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令她們不去接受那些不符自己意願的早婚。
05:58
So if I can save one of the young girls,
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於是, 我可以拯救其中一些女孩,
06:03
and avoid that they get married and suffer as much as I did,
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以及防止她的早婚令她們跟我們一樣的受苦,
06:06
well this is something good.
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我想, 這是一些好的事情。
06:10
This is why I'm here in front of you.
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這也是為什麼我會在你們面前。
06:12
PR: I would like to say
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PR:我會說
06:14
that I have learned so much from Aicha,
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我在Aicha 身上學到很多東西,
06:17
starting with that day we had our very first meeting
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由我們第一次的見面開始
06:20
with other family members --
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也跟其他的家庭成員---
06:22
which was a very private meeting with security,
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這是一個高度保密的私人會面,
06:25
because it was November 2002,
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因為當時是二零零二年十一月,
06:28
and, frankly, we were afraid of the super-patriotism of that time in the country --
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誠然, 我們也害怕當時國家裡的超級愛國主義---
06:34
those of us family members.
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我們那些家庭成員。
06:38
But we were all so nervous.
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我們全部人都好緊張。
06:41
"Why does she want to meet us?"
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「她為什麼想去見我們呢?」
06:44
And then she was nervous.
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接著, 她也十分緊張
06:46
"Why did we want to meet her?"
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「為什麼我們會想去見她呢?」
06:48
What did we want from each other?
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我們大家想在對方身上得到些什麼呢?
06:52
Before we knew each others' names, or anything,
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在我們知道大家的名字或是其他東西之前,
06:55
we had embraced and wept.
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我們已經相擁而哭了。
06:57
Then we sat in a circle
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在那些曾經經歷過和解的人的協助之下,
07:00
with support, with help,
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讓我們在互相支持和幫助的
07:02
from people experienced in this kind of reconciliation.
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圍坐在一圈
07:06
And Aicha started,
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由Aicha 開始,
07:08
and she said,
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她說:
07:10
"I don't know if my son
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「我不知道我的兒子
07:13
is guilty or innocent,
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是有罪還是無罪,
07:15
but I want to tell you how sorry I am
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但我想告訴你, 我是怎樣的難過
07:18
for what happened to your families.
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為著你家中所發生的事情。
07:23
I know what it is to suffer,
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我知道這是怎樣的難受
07:26
and I feel that if there is a crime,
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我認為, 如果這是一個罪行
07:30
a person should be tried fairly and punished."
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那個人應該得到公平的審判及懲罸。」
07:35
But she reached out to us in that way,
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她就是這樣的接觸我們。
07:39
and it was, I'd like to say, it was an ice-breaker.
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這是, 我會說這是一個破冰的過程。
07:43
And what happened then is we all told our stories,
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接著發生的事, 我們每人都說了自己的故事,
07:47
and we all connected as human beings.
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我們都作為人而被連繫著。
07:49
By the end of the afternoon --
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在那個下午完結的時候---
07:51
it was about three hours after lunch --
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大概是午餐後的三小時---
07:55
we'd felt as if we'd known each other forever.
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我們都感到好像大家已經認識了很久。
07:57
Now what I learned from her,
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從她身上我學習到,
07:59
is a woman, not only who could be so generous
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作為一個女人, 不單止是她可以如此的寬容
08:02
under these present circumstances
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即使在那時的處境
08:04
and what it was then,
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以及往後的日子,
08:06
and what was being done to her son,
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和所有在她兒子身上所發生的,
08:08
but the life she's had.
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而這就是她所經歷的人生。
08:10
I never had met
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我從來沒有遇過
08:12
someone with such a hard life,
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別人有著如她一樣的刻苦的人生,
08:14
from such a totally different culture and environment from my own.
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並且是來自一個跟自己全然不同的文化和環境。
08:19
And I feel
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我感到
08:21
that we have
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我們有一種
08:23
a special connection,
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很特別的連繫,
08:25
which I value very much.
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這是我非常珍惜的。
08:27
And I think it's all about
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我想
08:30
being afraid of the other,
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由互相害怕,
08:32
but making that step
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但走了這樣一步
08:35
and then realizing, "Hey, this wasn't so hard.
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接著發現, 「啊, 這也不是很困難。
08:38
Who else can I meet that I don't know,
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還有那個我不認識的人
08:40
or that I'm so different from?"
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或是跟我很不一樣的人, 我不可以跟他見面呢?」
08:44
So, Aicha,
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所以, Aicha
08:46
do you have a couple of words
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你可有些說話
08:48
for conclusion?
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去做總結
08:50
Because our time is up.
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因為我們的時間到了
08:52
(Laughter)
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笑聲
09:00
(Translator) AW: I wanted to say
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〈傳譯〉AW:我想說
09:02
that we have to try to know other people, the other.
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我們都努力嘗試去認識其他人。
09:08
You have to be generous,
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我們都要寬容,
09:10
and your hearts must be generous,
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你的心也要寬容,
09:12
your mind must be generous.
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你的心念也要寬容。
09:15
You must be tolerant.
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你一定要堅忍,
09:20
You have to fight against violence.
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你要去反抗暴力。
09:26
And I hope that someday we'll all live together
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我希望有一天, 我們都能夠
09:29
in peace and respecting each other.
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以和平以及尊重活在一起。
09:32
This is what I wanted to say.
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這是我想說的。
09:34
(Applause)
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