East vs west -- the myths that mystify | Devdutt Pattanaik

譯者: Vicky Chen 審譯者: Zhu Jie

To understand the business of mythology

要了解什麼是神話，

and what a Chief Belief Officer is supposed to do,

以及一位首席精神領袖應該要做什麼，

you have to hear a story

你必須要聽一個故事

of Ganesha,

有關格涅沙，

the elephant-headed god

也就是象頭神。

who is the scribe of storytellers,

祂是說故事的人的書記，

and his brother,

還有祂的弟弟，

the athletic warlord of the gods,

那矯健的戰神，

Kartikeya.

迦帝羯耶。

The two brothers one day decided to go on a race,

有一天兩兄弟決定要來個比賽，

three times around the world.

看誰最快繞世界三圈。

Kartikeya leapt on his peacock

迦帝羯耶跳上孔雀，

and flew around the continents

飛過各大洲，

and the mountains and the oceans.

飛過群山四海，

He went around once,

一圈，

he went around twice,

兩圈，

he went around thrice.

三圈，

But his brother, Ganesha,

但格涅沙

simply walked around his parents

只有繞著父母走。

once, twice, thrice,

一圈、兩圈、三圈，

and said, "I won."

然後說，我贏了。

"How come?" said Kartikeya.

為什麼? 迦帝羯耶說。

And Ganesha said,

格涅沙說：

"You went around 'the world.'

你繞的是外在世界。

I went around 'my world.'"

我繞的是「我的」世界。

What matters more?

哪一個比較重要?

If you understand the difference between 'the world' and 'my world,'

如果你了解「外在世界」和「我的世界」的不同，

you understand the difference between logos and mythos.

你就了解哲學思考和神話的不同。

'The world' is objective,

「外在」世界是客觀的。

logical, universal, factual,

合乎邏輯的，放諸四海皆準的，事實的，

scientific.

科學的。

'My world' is subjective.

「我的世界」是主觀的。

It's emotional. It's personal.

是情感的、私人的。

It's perceptions, thoughts, feelings, dreams.

有關感知、思想、感覺和夢。

It is the belief system that we carry.

是我們遵循的信仰，

It's the myth that we live in.

是我們所活的神話世界，

'The world' tells us how the world functions,

外在世界告訴我們這世界如何運作，

how the sun rises,

太陽如何升起，

how we are born.

我們如何出生。

'My world' tells us why the sun rises,

我的世界告訴我們太陽「為何」升起

why we were born.

我們「為何」出生。

Every culture is trying to understand itself:

每個文化都試著想了解自己，

"Why do we exist?"

我們為什麼存在?

And every culture comes up with its own understanding of life,

而且每個文化都有自己一套對生命的解釋，

its own customized version of mythology.

符合自己需求的神話。

Culture is a reaction to nature,

文化是相對於自然的產物，

and this understanding of our ancestors

而這個對於我們祖先的知識

is transmitted generation from generation

一代傳一代，

in the form of stories, symbols and rituals,

化身為故事、符號、和儀式。

which are always indifferent to rationality.

與理性完全不相干。

And so, when you study it, you realize

因此，當你研究神話，你會領悟到。

that different people of the world

不同地方的人。

have a different understanding of the world.

對世界有不同的理解。

Different people see things differently --

每個人看事情

different viewpoints.

的角度都不一樣。

There is my world and there is your world,

我有我的世界，你有你的世界。

and my world is always better than your world,

我的世界永遠比你的世界好，

because my world, you see, is rational

因為我的世界是理性的，

and yours is superstition.

你的世界是迷信的。

Yours is faith.

是信仰，

Yours is illogical.

是不合理的。

This is the root of the clash of civilizations.

這就是文化之間衝突的根源。

It took place, once, in 326 B.C.

在西元前326年時，曾經有一次這樣的衝突。

on the banks of a river called the Indus,

在一個叫印度斯的河岸，

now in Pakistan.

現在在巴基斯坦。

This river lends itself to India's name.

印度之名就是源自於此河。

India. Indus.

印度，印度斯。

Alexander, a young Macedonian,

一位年輕的馬其頓人，亞歷山大，

met there what he called a "gymnosophist,"

在那裡遇到一位「修行者」，

which means "the naked, wise man."

意指「裸體的智者」。

We don't know who he was.

我們不知道他是誰。

Perhaps he was a Jain monk,

或許是一個耆那教徒。

like Bahubali over here,

就像這裡的巴乎巴立。

the Gomateshwara Bahubali

哥馬塔須瓦拉 巴乎巴立

whose image is not far from Mysore.

長得有點像麥索爾。

Or perhaps he was just a yogi

或許他只是一個瑜珈修士，

who was sitting on a rock, staring at the sky

坐在岩石上盯著天空，

and the sun and the moon.

太陽和月亮看。

Alexander asked, "What are you doing?"

亞歷山大問他，你在做什麼?

and the gymnosophist answered,

裸體修行者答說：

"I'm experiencing nothingness."

我正在感受「虛無」。

Then the gymnosophist asked,

裸體靈修者問：

"What are you doing?"

你呢?

and Alexander said, "I am conquering the world."

亞歷山大說：我在征服這個世界。

And they both laughed.

然後他們同時笑了。

Each one thought that the other was a fool.

彼此都認為對方是傻子。

The gymnosophist said, "Why is he conquering the world?

裸體靈修者說：他為什麼要征服世界。

It's pointless."

毫無意義啊！

And Alexander thought,

亞歷山大心想，

"Why is he sitting around, doing nothing?

他為什麼要整天坐在那裡無所是事?

What a waste of a life."

真是浪費生命！

To understand this difference in viewpoints,

為了理解觀點的不同，

we have to understand

我們必須了解

the subjective truth of Alexander --

亞歷山大主觀的真理，

his myth, and the mythology that constructed it.

他的神話和其中的神話學。

Alexander's mother, his parents, his teacher Aristotle

亞歷山大的母親，他的父母和老師亞里斯多德

told him the story of Homer's "Iliad."

告訴他荷馬的史詩─伊里亞德。

They told him of a great hero called Achilles,

他們告訴他有關偉大的英雄阿基里斯的故事，

who, when he participated in battle, victory was assured,

攻無不克，戰無不勝。

but when he withdrew from the battle,

但是當他從戰役撤回時，

defeat was inevitable.

敗仗無可避免。

"Achilles was a man who could shape history,

阿基里斯是一個能創造歷史的人，

a man of destiny,

一個已注定了偉大命運的人。

and this is what you should be, Alexander."

你就應該像他一樣，亞歷山大

That's what he heard.

這是他聽到了故事。

"What should you not be?

你不應該變成什麼呢?

You should not be Sisyphus,

薛西弗斯。

who rolls a rock up a mountain all day

他每天把推石頭上山，

only to find the boulder rolled down at night.

石頭卻在晚山滾下來。

Don't live a life which is monotonous,

不要一成不變地生活著，

mediocre, meaningless.

庸庸碌碌，毫無意義。

Be spectacular! --

要活得轟轟烈烈，

like the Greek heroes,

就像希臘的英雄們，

like Jason, who went across the sea

像傑生，漂洋過海

with the Argonauts and fetched the Golden Fleece.

與亞戈水手們去取金羊毛。

Be spectacular like Theseus,

像賽修斯一樣勇猛，

who entered the labyrinth and killed the bull-headed Minotaur.

進入迷宮殺死牛頭人。

When you play in a race, win! --

當你參加比賽，你就要贏！

because when you win, the exhilaration of victory

因為當你勝利時，那種興奮感

is the closest you will come to the ambrosia of the gods."

就像嚐了神的美味食物。

Because, you see, the Greeks believed

因為系臘人相信，

you live only once,

你只活一次。

and when you die, you have to cross the River Styx.

而當你死時，你必須越過冥河，

And if you have lived an extraordinary life,

如果你過了一個很精采的人生，

you will be welcomed to Elysium,

極樂世界將會敞開大門歡迎你，

or what the French call "Champs-Élysées" --

也就是法國人所說的「香榭大道」！

(Laughter) --

(笑聲)

the heaven of the heroes.

英雄們的天堂！

But these are not the stories that the gymnosophist heard.

但是這些不是那位裸體靈修者所聽到的故事，

He heard a very different story.

他聽到的故事完全不一樣。

He heard of a man called Bharat,

他聽到一個叫作婆羅的人，

after whom India is called Bhārata.

印度因他而被稱作婆羅多。

Bharat also conquered the world.

婆羅也征服了全世界，

And then he went to the top-most peak

然後他跑到了

of the greatest mountain of the center of the world

世界中心的最高峰，

called Meru.

「美魯」頂上。

And he wanted to hoist his flag to say,

他想要豎起他的旗子說，

"I was here first."

我是來到此地的第一人。

But when he reached the mountain peak,

但當他到達峰頂時，

he found the peak covered with countless flags

他發現那裡早就佈滿屬不盡的旗子，

of world-conquerors before him,

來自那些在他之前的世界征服者，

each one claiming "'I was here first' ...

每個人都宣稱：我是第一人。

that's what I thought until I came here."

在來到此之前，我是這麼想的。

And suddenly, in this canvas of infinity,

突然間，在這幅大無限的世界畫布裡，

Bharat felt insignificant.

婆羅多感到微不足道。

This was the mythology of the gymnosophist.

這就是裸體靈修者的神話。

You see, he had heroes, like Ram -- Raghupati Ram

你知道，他有像來姆，奈古帕提‧ 來姆，

and Krishna, Govinda Hari.

和奎師那，戈文達‧ 哈里這些英雄。

But they were not two characters on two different adventures.

但是他們不是兩段不同冒險裡的兩個角色，

They were two lifetimes of the same hero.

而是同一個英雄的兩段人生。

When the Ramayana ends the Mahabharata begins.

當羅摩衍那結束時，摩訶婆羅多即開始。

When Ram dies, Krishna is born.

當雷姆死時，奎斯那即誕生。

When Krishna dies, eventually he will be back as Ram.

奎斯那死去後終究還是會輪迴成雷姆。

You see, the Indians also had a river

是這樣的，印度人有條河。

that separates the land of the living from the land of the dead.

它阻隔了活人和死人的世界，

But you don't cross it once.

但你不只有跨越過它一次，

You go to and fro endlessly.

你將永無止境地在這兩個世界來回

It was called the Vaitarani.

這條河叫作瓦伊特爾納河

You go again and again and again.

你會一再地前往

Because, you see,

因為啊

nothing lasts forever in India, not even death.

連死亡也不意外

And so, you have these grand rituals

所以會有那些盛大的儀式

where great images of mother goddesses are built

人們建造超大女神像

and worshiped for 10 days ...

然後膜拜十天

And what do you do at the end of 10 days?

十天後呢?

You dunk it in the river.

就把祂丟入河裡

Because it has to end.

凡事都有盡頭

And next year, she will come back.

明年她會再現

What goes around always comes around,

凡事都有輪迴

and this rule applies not just to man,

不只人們有輪迴

but also the gods.

神也有

You see, the gods

像眾神

have to come back again and again and again

也必須這樣地來回輪迴

as Ram, as Krishna.

像萊姆，奎斯那

Not only do they live infinite lives,

他們不只有永恆的生命

but the same life is lived infinite times

而且同一個人生還會無限地重複

till you get to the point of it all.

一直到你了解了人生的真諦

"Groundhog Day."

就像電影今天暫時停止一般

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Two different mythologies.

兩種不同的神話

Which is right?

哪個有道理呢？

Two different mythologies, two different ways of looking at the world.

兩種不同的神話代表兩種看世界的方法

One linear, one cyclical.

一個是線性的，一個是循環姓的

One believes this is the one and only life.

一個認為要把握唯一此生的當下

The other believes this is one of many lives.

另一個認為此生只是輪迴中的一回

And so, the denominator of Alexander's life was one.

所以亞歷山大的人生就那麼一次

So, the value of his life was the sum total

所以他人生蓋棺定論

of his achievements.

就是他的所有成就

The denominator of the gymnosophist's life was infinity.

但是裸體靈修者的生命是永恆輪迴的

So, no matter what he did,

所以不管他做了什麼

it was always zero.

到頭來還是要從頭開始，所以等於零。

And I believe it is this mythological paradigm

因此我相信就是這個神話範例

that inspired Indian mathematicians

啟發了印度數學家

to discover the number zero.

發明數字零

Who knows?

搞不好哩？

And that brings us to the mythology of business.

然後這又帶領我們進入各種商業的神話

If Alexander's belief influenced his behavior,

如果亞歷山大的信仰影響了他的行為

if the gymnosophist's belief influences his behavior,

如果裸體靈修者的信仰影響了他的行為

then it was bound to influence the business they were in.

那麼這一定會影響到他們所從事的事業

You see, what is business

什麼是商業?

but the result of how the market behaves

不就是市場行為的產物

and how the organization behaves?

以及組織行為的產物

And if you look at cultures around the world,

如果你想了解各國文化

all you have to do is understand the mythology

你只需要了解各國神話

and you will see how they behave and how they do business.

之後你就會了解他們的行為及商業運作方式

Take a look.

我們來看一下

If you live only once, in one-life cultures around the world,

如果你只活一次，而且在這世界上信奉生命只有一次的國家裡，

you will see an obsession with binary logic,

你就會看到人們對二元論的執迷

absolute truth, standardization,

絕對真實，標準化

absoluteness, linear patterns in design.

絕對性且線性的設計

But if you look at cultures which have cyclical

但是如果你檢視那些相信輪迴

and based on infinite lives, you will see a comfort with fuzzy logic,

認為生命永不止息的文化，你會感到慰藉，因為其中的模糊邏輯

with opinion,

意見

with contextual thinking,

有著文化脈絡背景的思考

with everything is relative, sort of --

每件事都是相關連的，幾乎

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

mostly.

大部分

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

You look at art. Look at the ballerina,

你看一下藝術。看一下芭蕾舞者。

how linear she is in her performance.

她的表演有多麼線性

And then look at the Indian classical dancer,

再看看印度傳統舞者

the Kuchipudi dancer, the Bharatanatyam dancer,

酷奇普地舞者，婆羅多舞者

curvaceous.

曲線多美啊

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

And then look at business.

我們再來看看商業是怎麼一回事

Standard business model:

標準商業典型

vision, mission, values, processes.

視野、使命、價值和過程

Sounds very much like the journey through

聽起來很像

the wilderness to the promised land,

穿越荒野前往應許之地的旅程

with the commandments held by the leader.

領隊攜著誡命

And if you comply, you will go to heaven.

如果你達成命令，你就可以上天堂

But in India there is no "the" promised land.

但在印度沒有所謂的那個最終的「應許之地」

There are many promised lands,

應許之地有很多種層次

depending on your station in society,

依你在社會的地位而定

depending on your stage of life.

以及你人生中所處的階段而定

You see, businesses are not run as institutions,

是這樣，經營商業並不是像經營一個機構那樣

by the idiosyncrasies of individuals.

由個人的習性掌控

It's always about taste.

它總是與趣味品味有關

It's always about my taste.

是個人導向的

You see, Indian music, for example,

舉例來說，印度音樂

does not have the concept of harmony.

並沒有和諧的概念

There is no orchestra conductor.

沒有管懸樂團

There is one performer standing there, and everybody follows.

只有一個表演者站在那裡，然後大家跟著

And you can never replicate that performance twice.

你不可能重複同一個表演

It is not about documentation and contract.

跟什麼文件合約無關

It's about conversation and faith.

而是和會話和信仰有關

It's not about compliance. It's about setting,

和承諾無關，和環境有關

getting the job done, by bending or breaking the rules --

只要把工作做好，哪怕要打破規則

just look at your Indian people around here,

看一下你在座的印度人吧

you'll see them smile; they know what it is.

他們會對你微笑，因為他們知道我在說什麼

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

And then look at people who have done business in India,

再看看那些在印度做過生意的人

you'll see the exasperation on their faces.

他們臉上則是只有惱怒

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

(Applause)

(拍掌)

You see, this is what India is today. The ground reality

這樣你了解了吧，這就是現今的印度。現實世界是

is based on a cyclical world view.

建構在一種輪迴觀

So, it's rapidly changing, highly diverse,

所以世界是變換莫測的，超多樣化的

chaotic, ambiguous, unpredictable.

混亂混沌且不可預測的

And people are okay with it.

人們相安無事啊

And then globalization is taking place.

然後全球化出現

The demands of modern institutional thinking is coming in.

要求現代制度化思考就來啦

Which is rooted in one-life culture.

它源自相信人只有一次生命的文化

And a clash is going to take place,

衝突即將發生

like on the banks of the Indus.

就像印度河岸發生的一樣

It is bound to happen.

遲早會發生的

I have personally experienced it. I'm trained as a medical doctor.

我個人有經驗。我是受醫學訓練的

I did not want to study surgery. Don't ask me why.

但我不想學外科手術，別問我問為什麼

I love mythology too much.

我太愛神話學了

I wanted to learn mythology. But there is nowhere you can study.

我想學但卻沒地方學

So, I had to teach it to myself.

所以我只好自己學

And mythology does not pay, well, until now.

神話學一點都不賺錢，好吧，直到現在才賺

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

So, I had to take up a job. And I worked in the pharma industry.

所以我只好找個工作活口，在醫藥業

And I worked in the healthcare industry.

然後是保健業

And I worked as a marketing guy, and a sales guy,

行銷和業務

and a knowledge guy, and a content guy, and a training guy.

飽學知識的人和訓練師

I even was a business consultant, doing strategies and tactics.

我還做過商業顧問幫忙作策略

And I would see the exasperation

當

between my American and European colleagues,

我的歐美同事和印度人交涉時，

when they were dealing with India.

我看到他們的惱怒

Example: Please tell us the process

舉例：請告訴我們

to invoice hospitals.

開醫院發票的流程

Step A. Step B. Step C. Mostly.

大部分是部驟一二三

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

How do you parameterize "mostly"?

怎麼參數化「大部分」呢?

How do you put it in a nice little software? You can't.

如何把它放進小軟體裡呢? 你辦不到

I would give my viewpoints to people.

我會告訴人們我的觀點

But nobody was interested in listening to it,

但沒人會想聽

you see, until I met Kishore Biyani of the Future group.

直到我遇到未來集團的吉秀‧比亞尼

You see, he has established the largest retail chain, called Big Bazaar.

他那時已經建立了最大的零售連鎖店「大商場」

And there are more than 200 formats,

在全印度50個城市和鄉鎮中

across 50 cities and towns of India.

有超過200個模式

And he was dealing with diverse and dynamic markets.

他必須處理各式各樣活躍的市場

And he knew very intuitively,

他直覺認為

that best practices,

在

developed in Japan and China and Europe and America

日本中國歐洲和美國的最佳模式

will not work in India.

在印度行不通的

He knew that institutional thinking doesn't work in India. Individual thinking does.

他知道制式化思考在印度行不通，個人化獨立思考才行的通

He had an intuitive understanding of the mythic structure of India.

他已經深刻了解印度的神話般結構

So, he had asked me to be the Chief Belief Officer, and said,

所以他邀我擔任首席精神領袖

"All I want to do is align belief."

他說：我只要你把信仰整合起來

Sounds so simple.

聽起來很簡單

But belief is not measurable.

但是信仰是不無法測量的

You can't measure it. You can't manage it.

你無法測量它，更別說管理它了

So, how do you construct belief?

所以啊，你怎麼建構出信仰?

How do you enhance the sensitivity of people to Indian-ness.

你如何增進人對印度性的敏感度呢?

Even if you are Indian, it is not very explicit, it is not very obvious.

幾使你是印度人，你也可能不能清楚感知道它

So, I tried to work on the standard model of culture,

所以我試著從文化的標準模型下手

which is, develop stories, symbols and rituals.

也就是發產出故事象徵和儀式

And I will share one of the rituals with you.

我將和你們分享其中一個儀式

You see it is based on the Hindu ritual of Darshan.

它是基於印度儀式中的達顯。

Hindus don't have the concept of commandments.

印度教並沒有戒律的概念。

So, there is nothing right or wrong in what you do in life.

所以你人生所做的事並沒有對或錯。

So, you're not really sure how you stand in front of God.

你在神之面前於是會不知所措。

So, when you go to the temple, all you seek is an audience with God.

所以你去廟宇時，你只想當神的觀眾。

You want to see God.

你想看到神。

And you want God to see you, and hence the gods have very large eyes,

你也想讓神看到你，所以神都有很大的眼睛。

large unblinking eyes,

而且不眨眼的，

sometimes made of silver,

有時還是銀做的。

so they look at you.

神看著你，

Because you don't know whether you're right or wrong, and so all you seek

因為以不知道自己做錯作對，所以你只冀求

is divine empathy.

神聖的神入。

"Just know where I came from, why I did the Jugaad."

只想知道我從哪裡來，我為什麼要當創意天才?

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

"Why did I do the setting,

為什麼我佈置這些?

why I don't care for the processes. Just understand me, please."

我為什麼不在意程序? 請了解我吧。

And based on this, we created a ritual for leaders.

根據這些呢，我們為領導者創造了一個儀式

After a leader completes his training and is about to take over the store,

在領導者結束訓練即將掌管商店時

we blindfold him, we surround him with the stakeholders,

我們蒙住他的眼睛，所有它的關係人圍繞著他，

the customer, his family, his team, his boss.

他的顧客家人團隊和老闆。

You read out his KRA, his KPI, you give him the keys,

唸出他的組織績效、流程績效，給他那些關鍵。

and then you remove the blindfold.

然後移去蒙眼條，

And invariably, you see a tear,

然後你總是會看到對方留下眼淚

because the penny has dropped.

因為他已經悟道了。

He realizes that to succeed,

他領悟到要成功的話，

he does not have to be a "professional,"

他並不需要成為一個專業人士，

he does not have to cut out his emotions,

他不需要屏除他的情緒。

he has to include all these people

要成功的話他必須把這些人納入他的世界

in his world to succeed, to make them happy,

讓他們愉快。

to make the boss happy, to make everyone happy.

讓老闆愉快，讓每個人愉快。

The customer is happy, because the customer is God.

顧客就是神，所以要讓他們愉快。

That sensitivity is what we need. Once this belief enters,

我們需要感性。只要你相信這個信仰，

behavior will happen, business will happen.

就會有好的行為，商業也會跟著來。

And it has.

它的確已經開始了。

So, then we come back to Alexander

好，我們在回到亞歷山大

and to the gymnosophist.

和裸體靈修者。

And everybody asks me, "Which is the better way, this way or that way?"

大家都問我哪一個比較好啊?

And it's a very dangerous question,

這個問題很危險，

because it leads you to the path of fundamentalism and violence.

因為他領導你走向基本教義派和暴力。

So, I will not answer the question.

所以我不會回答。

What I will give you is an Indian answer,

我要給你一個印度人的答案，

the Indian head-shake.

印度式搖頭

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

(Applause)

(掌聲)

Depending on the context,

視文化脈絡而定

depending on the outcome,

視結果而定

choose your paradigm.

來選擇你的模範。

You see, because both the paradigms are human constructions.

因為兩者都是人類的產物。

They are cultural creations,

是文化的創造，

not natural phenomena.

不是自然現象。

And so the next time you meet someone, a stranger,

所以下一次你遇到一個陌生人，

one request:

請你

Understand that you live in the subjective truth,

要體悟到你有主觀的意識

and so does he.

他也有。

Understand it.

去了解這件事吧。

And when you understand it you will discover something spectacular.

當你了解了，你會發現驚奇的事。

You will discover that within infinite myths

你會發現在無限的神話裡，

lies the eternal truth.

有著永恆不變的真理。

Who sees it all?

誰看得到真理呢?

Varuna has but a thousand eyes.

瓦魯納有一千隻眼睛，

Indra, a hundred.

印迪拉有一百隻，

You and I, only two.

你我都只有兩隻。

Thank you. Namaste.

謝謝

(Applause)

（掌聲）