Rufus Griscom and Alisa Volkman: It's time to explode 4 taboos of parenting

譯者: Suet Mei Hau 審譯者: Adrienne Lin

Alisa Volkman: So this is where our story begins --

這是我們故事的始點

the dramatic moments of the birth

就是那個生命誕生的經典時刻

of our first son, Declan.

我們第一個兒子Declan

Obviously a really profound moment,

這真是個很深刻的時刻

and it changed our lives in many ways.

也在許多方面改變了我們的生命

It also changed our lives in many unexpected ways,

在我們意想不到時，改變了我們的生命

and those unexpected ways we later reflected on,

這些出乎意料的部份後來也影響著我們

that eventually spawned a business idea between the two of us,

最後更促成了我們兩人做生意的點子

and a year later, we launched Babble,

一年之後, 我們推出了Babble

a website for parents.

一個給家長的網站

Rufus Griscom: Now I think of our story

現在, 我們的故事

as starting a few years earlier. AV: That's true.

應該是在更早幾年前開始的 (是真的)

RG: You may remember, we fell head over heels in love.

RG:你們應該都記得，電光火石間墮入愛河

AV: We did.

AV: 我們是的

RG: We were at the time running a very different kind of website.

RG: 我們當時正經營另一種網站

It was a website called Nerve.com,

這是網站名叫: Nerve.com

the tagline of which was "literate smut."

副標題是色情文學

It was in theory, and hopefully in practice,

這是理論上, 希望在實際上

a smart online magazine

是一個智能網上雜誌

about sex and culture.

是有關性和文化的

AV: That spawned a dating site.

AV: 接連促成了一個約會交友網站

But you can understand the jokes that we get. Sex begets babies.

你也會明白我們常說的笑話: 性會帶來寶寶

You follow instructions on Nerve and you should end up on Babble,

你跟隨Nerve網站的指示, 便會到達Babble

which we did.

我們倆就是這樣

And we might launch a geriatric site as our third. We'll see.

我們可能之後會推出個老人的網站作為第三步, 再看看

RG: But for us, the continuity between Nerve and Babble

但對我們來說, Nerve和Babble之間的連繫

was not just the life stage thing,

並不單只是不同人生階段的事

which is, of course, relevant,

這個, 當然有關

but it was really more about

或是更多是

our desire to speak very honestly

我們想更坦白的說出

about subjects that people have difficulty speaking honestly about.

那些人們不敢坦白說出來的話題

It seems to us that

這對我們來說

when people start dissembling, people start lying about things,

當有些人開始掩飾, 他們開始會為那些說謊

that's when it gets really interesting.

那就是讓我們很感興趣的東西

That's a subject that we want to dive into.

也是我們想深入發掘的議題

And we've been surprised to find, as young parents,

我們也很驚奇的發現, 作為年青的父母

that there are almost more taboos around parenting

管教這回事好像有著更多的禁忌

than there are around sex.

甚至比起性話題有著更多的禁忌

AV: It's true. So like we said,

這是真的, 所以我們會說

the early years were really wonderful,

這個早期的階段, 的確是很奇妙

but they were also really difficult.

但同時, 也真的是很困難的

And we feel like some of that difficulty

我們感到這些困難

was because of this false advertisement around parenting.

有一部份是來自關於管教的錯誤宣傳

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

We subscribed to a lot of magazines, did our homework,

我們訂了很多雜誌, 做功課

but really everywhere you look around, we were surrounded by images like this.

但真的, 不論到那裡, 我們都是給這些影像圍繞著的

And we went into parenting

當我們真的做了家長

expecting our lives to look like this.

我們會期望生活就該是如此

The sun was always streaming in, and our children would never be crying.

太陽永遠高照, 孩子也永不會吵鬧

I would always be perfectly coiffed and well rested,

我會永遠的端莊和平靜

and in fact, it was not like that at all.

但事實並不是如此的

RG: When we lowered the glossy parenting magazine

當我們放下那些光彩的育兒雜誌

that we were looking at, with these beautiful images,

放下裡面的漂亮影像

and looked at the scene in our actual living room,

同時看到我們實際客廳內的場景

it looked a little bit more like this.

它多數的時候都會是這樣的

These are our three sons.

這是我們的三個兒子

And of course, they're not always crying and screaming,

當然, 他們不是經常吵鬧及哭叫

but with three boys, there's a decent probability

但有著三個男孩, 其中一個會不規矩

that at least one of them will not be comporting himself

的機率是很大的

exactly as he should.

其實他是應該的

AV: Yes, you can see where the disconnect was happening for us.

對了,我會看到我們怎樣跟那些雜誌的影像脫離

We really felt like what we went in expecting

我們後來感到, 我們以為的

had nothing to do with what we were actually experiencing,

其實跟真實的經驗, 是沒有關的

and so we decided we really wanted to give it to parents straight.

所以我們決定真實的告訴家長

We really wanted to let them understand

我們真的想誠實的讓別人明白

what the realities of parenting were in an honest way.

為人父母究竟是怎樣的一回事

RG: So today, what we would love to do

所以今天, 我們會想跟各位

is share with you four parenting taboos.

分享四個有關做父母的禁忌

And of course, there are many more than four things

但當然, 其實除了四個之外, 還有更多

you can't say about parenting,

關於做父母的不能說

but we would like to share with you today

但我們想跟你分享的

four that are particularly relevant for us personally.

這四個是特別跟我們個人有關的

So the first, taboo number one:

所以第一, 禁忌一

you can't say you didn't fall in love with your baby

你不能說你沒有在第一分鐘的時候

in the very first minute.

就愛上你的孩子

I remember vividly, sitting there in the hospital.

我很清晰的記得, 當我坐在醫院

We were in the process of giving birth to our first child.

我們第一個孩子的生產過程中

AV: We, or I?

AV: 我們, 或是我?

RG: I'm sorry.

RG: 對不起

Misuse of the pronoun.

用錯了代名詞

Alisa was very generously in the process

Alisa 在這生第一個孩子的過程中實在非常慷慨

of giving birth to our first child -- (AV: Thank you.)

實在非常慷慨 AV: 謝謝

-- and I was there with a catcher's mitt.

而我就站在一旁戴著捕手的手套

And I was there with my arms open.

張開我的兩臂

The nurse was coming at me

護士帶著這個

with this beautiful, beautiful child,

很漂亮, 很漂亮的孩子, 走到我的跟前

and I remember, as she was approaching me,

我記得, 當她走過來的時候,

the voices of friends saying,

我想起朋友說的話

"The moment they put the baby in your hands,

『當他們把孩子放在你手中的時候

you will feel a sense of love that will come over you

你會感到愛的感應

that is [on] an order of magnitude more powerful

是那種你一生之中

than anything you've ever experienced in your entire life."

從來沒有經歷過的震撼的力量。』

So I was bracing myself for the moment.

於是,我為這個時刻而抖擻自己

The baby was coming,

那個嬰兒快要到來了

and I was ready for this Mack truck of love

而我就準備那一卡車的愛

to just knock me off my feet.

將我撞倒

And instead, when the baby was placed in my hands,

反倒是, 當那個嬰兒放在我手中的時候,

it was an extraordinary moment.

這是一個很特別的時刻

This picture is from literally a few seconds after

這張照片就是當嬰兒放在我手中, 我抱著他

the baby was placed in my hands and I brought him over.

數秒之後拍下來的

And you can see, our eyes were glistening.

你可以看到, 我們的眼睛閃閃發亮

I was overwhelmed with love and affection for my wife,

我被自己對妻子的愛以及感激

with deep, deep gratitude

沖昏了

that we had what appeared to be a healthy child.

因為這看來是一個健康的孩子

And it was also, of course, surreal.

這好像是很不真實的

I mean, I had to check the tags and make sure.

我一再檢查, 確定那個名牌

I was incredulous, "Are you sure this is our child?"

我有點懷疑: 『你肯定這是我們的孩子?』

And this was all quite remarkable.

這些都非常不可思議

But what I felt towards the child at that moment was deep affection,

但那刻, 我對這個孩子的強烈感情

but nothing like what I feel for him now, five years later.

卻不如五年之後我對他的感情之大

And so we've done something here

我們做了一件

that is heretical.

很詭異的事

We have charted

我們記錄了

our love for our child over time.

在不同時期對孩子的愛

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

This, as you know, is an act of heresy.

這個, 你可能會認為是, 有點離經叛道

You're not allowed to chart love.

你是不容許去計算愛的

The reason you're not allowed to chart love

你會認為不應去計算愛

is because we think of love as a binary thing.

是因為我們會認為愛是一種非黑即白的

You're either in love, or you're not in love.

你一是在愛中, 一是不在愛中

You love, or you don't love.

你愛, 你不愛

And I think the reality is that love is a process,

但我想, 現實是, 愛其實是一個過程

and I think the problem with thinking of love

而我們想著愛如果是非黑即白的,

as something that's binary

那才是問題的本身

is that it causes us

這問題會令我們

to be unduly concerned

太過關注

that love is fraudulent, or inadequate, or what have you.

愛其實並不是很足夠, 或是需要自我欺騙

And I think I'm speaking obviously here to the father's experience.

我所說的明顯的是一個爸爸的經驗

But I think a lot of men do go through this sense

我想很多男士在早期, 或是孩子的第一年的時候

in the early months, maybe their first year,

會有過這樣的感覺

that their emotional response is inadequate in some fashion.

就是, 他們的情感反應有時不足以應付

AV: Well, I'm glad Rufus is bringing this up,

好了, 我很高興Rufus提到這點

because you can notice where he dips in the first years

你會發現孩子的第一年, 他的愛下降了

where I think I was doing most of the work.

而我就做著大部份的工作

But we like to joke,

有時我們會開玩笑說

in the first few months of all of our children's lives,

在孩子們開始的數個月裡, 告訴他們

this is Uncle Rufus.

這是Rufus叔淑

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

RG: I'm a very affectionate uncle, very affectionate uncle.

我是一個很有情感的叔叔, 非常喜愛他們

AV: Yes, and I often joke with Rufus when he comes home

是, 我常常跟Rufus開玩笑, 當他回家的時候

that I'm not sure he would actually be able to find our child in a line-up

我實在不太確定, 他能夠在一群嬰兒之中

amongst other babies.

挑出自己的孩子

So I actually threw a pop quiz here onto Rufus.

我現在就給Rufus一個挑戰

RG: Uh oh.

RG: 噢

AV: I don't want to embarrass him too much. But I am going to give him three seconds.

AV: 我不想令他感到尷尬, 所以我會給他三秒鐘

RG: That is not fair. This is a trick question. He's not up there, is he?

RG: 這樣不公平, 妳耍詐, 孩子不在這裡面, 是嗎?

AV: Our eight-week-old son is somewhere in here,

AV: 我們的八個星期的兒子是在這裡某處

and I want to see if Rufus can actually quickly identify him.

我想知道Rufus能不能很快的找出他來

RG: The far left. AV: No!

RG: 最左邊 AV: 不!

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

RG: Cruel.

RG: 好殘忍

AV: Nothing more to be said.

AV: 我沒有什麼好說了

(Laughter)

笑聲

I'll move on to taboo number two.

我轉到禁忌二

You can't talk about how lonely having a baby can be.

你不能說出, 究竟生個小孩是多寂寞的一回事

I enjoyed being pregnant. I loved it.

我喜歡懷孕, 我喜歡

I felt incredibly connected to the community around me.

我感到跟我周遭的人有很深厚的連繫

I felt like everyone was participating in my pregnancy, all around me,

我感到每一個人都參與著我的懷孕, 在我周圍附近

tracking it down till the actual due-date.

一直陪伴直到生產的那一天

I felt like I was a vessel of the future of humanity.

我覺得我好像是人類未來的脈管

That continued into the the hospital. It was really exhilarating.

連續到我在醫院的時候, 這真是令人振奮

I was shower with gifts and flowers and visitors.

我被禮物, 鮮花, 訪客圍著

It was a really wonderful experience,

這真是很好的經驗

but when I got home,

但當我回到家的時候

I suddenly felt very disconnected

我突然感到很孤單

and suddenly shut in and shut out,

和突然的被禁錮起來

and I was really surprised by those feelings.

我對這些感覺也感到很意外

I did expect it to be difficult,

我預計了這是過程很不容易

have sleepless nights, constant feedings,

有許多無眠的晚上, 持續的餵哺

but I did not expect the feelings

但我沒有預期到這些

of isolation and loneliness that I experienced,

孤單和寂寞的感覺

and I was really surprised that no one had talked to me,

我更驚奇的是, 竟然沒有人跟我說過

that I was going to be feeling this way.

我將會有這樣的感覺

And I called my sister

於是, 我打電話給我姊姊

whom I'm very close to -- and had three children --

我們很親, 她有三個孩子

and I asked her, "Why didn't you tell me

我問她, 你為什麼不告訴我

I was going to be feeling this way,

我會有這樣的感覺

that I was going to have these -- feeling incredibly isolated?"

就是莫名的被孤立的感覺

And she said -- I'll never forget --

她說--我永遠不會忘記--

"It's just not something you want to say to a mother

這不是該跟那些第一次當媽媽的人

that's having a baby for the first time."

應該說的話

RG: And of course, we think

RG: 這當然是, 我們想

it's precisely what you really should be saying

這正是應該對那些

to mothers who have kids for the first time.

第一次當媽媽的人說的話

And that this, of course, one of the themes for us

所以, 當然的, 我們其中一個重要的主題

is that we think

就是我們想

that candor and brutal honesty

這些坦率而殘酷的事實

is critical to us collectively

對我們變成一個偉大父母來說

being great parents.

都是非常重要的

And it's hard not to think

很難想像

that part of what leads to this sense of isolation

現代的社會會令人有種

is our modern world.

孤立無援的感覺

So Alisa's experience is not isolated.

所以Alisa的經驗並不是單一的

So your 58 percent of mothers surveyed

我們調查過, 有58%的媽媽

report feelings of loneliness.

都表達有孤單的感覺

Of those, 67 percent are most lonely

而當中, 67%更表示

when their kids are zero to five -- probably really zero to two.

在她們的孩子0-5歲, 或說0-2歲時最感到孤單

In the process of preparing this,

為了準備這個必經的過程

we looked at how some other cultures around the world

我們參考了世界上其他文化的經驗

deal with this period of time,

怎樣去處理這段時期的問題

because here in the Western world,

因為我們西方國家

less than 50 percent of us live near our family members,

有少過50%的人是住在家人附近

which I think is part of why this is such a tough period.

這也是我想為什麼這階段很艱難

So to take one example among many:

在這許多的例子之中

in Southern India

看看印度南部

there's a practice known as jholabhari,

他們有一個習俗叫個 jholabihari

in which the pregnant woman, when she's seven or eight months pregnant,

就是一個婦女, 懷孕7-8個月的時候

moves in with her mother

搬去與自己的母親同住

and goes through a series of rituals and ceremonies,

然後經過一系列的儀式和慶典

give birth and returns home to her nuclear family

在她生下孩子的數個月之後

several months after the child is born.

她才回到自己的核心家庭裡

And this is one of many ways

這就是其他文化

that we think other cultures offset this kind of lonely period.

怎樣減低這個孤單時期的其中一個方法

AV: So taboo number three:

AV: 然後, 禁忌三

you can't talk about your miscarriage -- but today I'll talk about mine.

不能談論有關流產的經驗----但今天我會說說我自己的

So after we had Declan,

在我生下Declan後

we kind of recalibrated our expectations.

經過重整我們的期望之後

We thought we actually could go through this again

我們認為我們可以再試一次

and thought we knew what we would be up against.

並想著我們可以重新站起來

And we were grateful that I was able to get pregnant,

很感恩的, 我再一次懷孕

and I soon learned that we were having a boy,

不久後知道懷的是男孩

and then when I was five months,

大概是五個月的時候

we learned that we had lost our child.

我們發現失去了這個孩子

This is actually the last little image we have of him.

這就是他留下來最後的照片

And it was obviously a very difficult time --

這顯然是一段很困難的時間

really painful.

實在很痛苦

As I was working through that mourning process,

就在我努力的應付這段哀傷的日子

I was amazed that I didn't want to see anybody.

我發現自己實在不想見到任何人

I really wanted to crawl into a hole,

我只想躲在洞裡

and I didn't really know how I was going

我知道我在做些什麼

to work my way back into my surrounding community.

我想用我自己的方法, 回到我周遭的社區

And I realize, I think, the way I was feeling that way,

我發現, 我心底裡

is on a really deep gut level,

最真實的感覺

I was feeling a lot of shame

是我感到許多的羞恥

and embarrassed, frankly,

尷尬, 坦白說

that, in some respects, I had failed

在某一程度來說, 我失敗了

at delivering what I'm genetically engineered to do.

我無法用我天然的生殖能力來孕育孩子

And of course, it made me question,

這當然, 讓我感到疑惑

if I wasn't able to have another child,

這是否代表我無法再生孩子

what would that mean for my marriage,

這對我的婚姻來說有些什麼意義

and just me as a woman.

和自己身為女人的質疑

So it was a very difficult time.

這實在是一段很艱難的日子

As I started working through it more,

我開始努力的去處理這問題

I started climbing out of that hole and talking with other people.

我開始爬出我的洞外, 開始跟別人談論

I was really amazed

我感到很驚奇

by all the stories that started flooding in.

因為別人的故事開始湧進來了

People I interacted with daily,

那些我每天都見

worked with, was friends with,

或是一起工作的, 曾經親近的朋友

family members that I had known a long time,

甚至是家人, 以及那些我認識了很久的人

had never shared with me their own stories.

從來沒有跟我訴說過他們的故事

And I just remember feeling all these stories came out of the woodwork,

我覺得這些故事都是從森林裡走出來的

and I felt like I happened upon

而我感到自己剛好碰到

this secret society of women that I now was a part of,

這些秘密的婦女世界, 而我是其中一份子

which was reassuring and also really concerning.

這讓我感到既放心又擔心

And I think,

我覺得

miscarriage is an invisible loss.

流產是一種看不到的失去

There's not really a lot of community support around it.

這當中並沒有很多的支持和支援

There's really no ceremony,

也沒有真正的告別儀式

rituals, or rites.

或是告別的場合

And I think, with a death, you have a funeral, you celebrate the life,

我想, 如果有人死了, 你會有一個葬禮, 去慶祝生存的日子

and there's a lot of community support,

也有很多社區的支援

and it's something women don't have with miscarriage.

只當有流產經驗的女性, 卻沒有這些東西

RG: Which is too bad because, of course,

RG: 這當然是很不好的事呢

it's a very common and very traumatic experience.

這是一個很普遍卻又很傷痛的經驗

Fifteen to 20 percent of all pregnancies result in miscarriage,

因為15%-20%的懷孕會以流產終結

and I find this astounding.

我覺得這情況是驚人的

In a survey, 74 percent of women said

在調查之中, 74%的女性會說

that miscarriage, they felt, was partly their fault, which is awful.

她們覺得流產是她們的錯, 這是很糟的

And astoundingly, 22 percent

更可怕的是, 22%的女性

said they would hide a miscarriage from their spouse.

甚至會對自己的配偶隱暪流產的事

So taboo number four:

而禁忌四:

you can't say that your average happiness

你不能說自己的快樂

has declined since having a child.

在當有了孩子之後, 會一直下跌

The party line is that every single aspect of my life

老實說, 自從自己參與了

has just gotten dramatically better

這個養育孩子的奇妙經驗

ever since I participated

我生活的每一個部份

in the miracle that is childbirth and family.

都會變得非常良好

I'll never forget, I remember vividly to this day,

我永不會忘記, 我清楚記得

our first son, Declan, was nine months old,

我們第一個兒子Declan九個月的時候

and I was sitting there on the couch,

我坐在沙發上

and I was reading Daniel Gilbert's wonderful book, "Stumbling on Happiness."

我正在看丹尼爾．吉伯特非常出色的書《快樂為什麼不幸福？》

And I got about two-thirds of the way through,

大概在書中三分之二的部份

and there was a chart on the right-hand side --

在右手邊有一個圖表

on the right-hand page --

在右邊那頁

that we've labeled here

於是我們標籤了

"The Most Terrifying Chart Imaginable

"新手父母最不能想像的

for a New Parent."

驚人圖表"

This chart is comprised of four completely independent studies.

這個圖表包含了四個獨立的研究

Basically, there's this precipitous drop

基本上, 對於婚姻的滿足感

of marital satisfaction,

是非常明顯的下滑

which is closely aligned, we all know, with broader happiness,

而跟廣義的快樂來比, 也是接近相似的模式

that doesn't rise again

而又不會再次上升

until your first child goes to college.

直到第一個孩子上了大學之後

So I'm sitting here looking at the next two decades of my life,

於是, 我坐著在想著自己未來二十年的人生

this chasm of happiness

這個快樂的裂口

that we're driving our proverbial convertible straight into.

用我們最直接的形容詞來說

We were despondent.

我們感到很是沮喪

AV: So you can imagine, I mean again, the first few months were difficult,

AV: 於是, 你可以想像, 最初的日子是困難的

but we'd come out of it,

但我們都終能走過來

and were really shocked to see this study.

但我們看到這個研究, 實在是很震驚

So we really wanted to take a deeper look at it

我們真的想認真的探討這個

in hopes that we would find a silver lining.

希望我們能找到曙光

RG: And that's when it's great to be running a website for parents,

所以我們決定開拓一個給家長的網站

because we got this incredible reporter

因為我們有了不起的記者

to go and interview all the scientists

可以去訪問許多科學家

who conducted these four studies.

尤其做那四個獨立研究的科學家

We said, something is wrong here.

我們說: 研究當中有些錯誤

There's something missing from these studies.

有些東西在這些研究之中遺留了

It can't possibly be that bad.

應該結果不會是如此的令人沮喪

So Liz Mitchell did a wonderful job with this piece,

於是Liz Mitchell很棒的

and she interviewed four scientists,

她訪問了四個科學家

and she also interviewed Daniel Gilbert,

她也訪問了丹尼爾．吉伯特

and we did indeed find a silver lining.

我們確實也找到了一線曙光

So this is our guess

這個是我們

as to what this baseline of average happiness

對於平均快樂基線的估計

arguably looks like throughout life.

可以說是這條線大概貫穿整個人生

Average happiness is, of course, inadequate,

平均快樂, 當然是, 不大足夠

because it doesn't speak

因為它是不懂得

to the moment-by-moment experience,

為每一個時刻的經驗而說話的

and so this is what we think it looks like

所以我們認為它應該是這個樣子

when you layer in

當你放置了

moment-to-moment experience.

一個又一個時刻的經驗

And so we all remember as children,

好像我們都記得當我們是小孩的時候

the tiniest little thing -- and we see it on the faces of our children --

那些最微小的事--我們都在小孩臉上看過的

the teeniest little thing

那些小事

can just rocket them to these heights

可以把快樂

of just utter adulation,

吹噓到很高的水平

and then the next teeniest little thing

接著另一件很小的事

can cause them just to plummet to the depths of despair.

也可以帶動到最深刻的沮喪和困境

And it's just extraordinary to watch, and we remember it ourselves.

我們很少這樣去思考, 我們只是自己把經驗記得了

And then, of course, as you get older,

接著, 當你長大的時候

it's almost like age is a form of lithium.

年齡就好像是鋰金屬一樣

As you get older, you become more stable.

當時間愈久, 你便愈穩定

And part of what happens, I think, in your '20s and '30s,

當你還是二十或是三十的時候,

is you start to learn to hedge your happiness.

你開始懂得去對沖你的快樂

You start to realize that

你也開始發現

"Hey, I could go to this live music event

"我想去這個現場音樂會

and have an utterly transforming experience

就會有一個徹底改造的經驗

that will cover my entire body with goosebumps,

我的全身都會起疙瘩

but it's more likely that I'll feel claustrophobic

但可能我會感到幽閉恐懼

and I won't be able to get a beer.

我沒辦法拿啤酒喝

So I'm not going to go.

我還是不要去了

I've got a good stereo at home. So, I'm not going to go."

我家中有很好的立體音響, 我還是不去好了"

So your average happiness goes up,

於是, 你的平均快樂上昇

but you lose those transcendent moments.

但這失去了那些美妙的時刻

AV: Yeah, and then you have your first child,

接著, 你有了第一個孩子

and then you really resubmit yourself

於是真的再次去評價自己

to these highs and lows --

的喜和憂

the highs being the first steps, the first smile,

喜好像是那些第一步, 第一個笑容

your child reading to you for the first time --

你孩子第一次讀故事給你聽

the lows being, our house, any time from six to seven every night.

低潮是每晚的6-7點都要待在家裡

But you realize you resubmit yourself

但當你再次給你自己的失控

to losing control in a really wonderful way,

打分數的時候

which we think provides a lot of meaning to our lives

我們發現生命多了許多意義

and is quite gratifying.

同時也是很感恩的

RG: And so in effect,

最後的結果

we trade average happiness.

我們犧牲了平均的快樂

We trade the sort of security and safety

但得到更具體的安全感覺

of a certain level of contentment

這層次中的滿足感之中

for these transcendent moments.

在那些美妙的時刻

So where does that leave the two of us

最後, 經歷過這許多之後

as a family with our three little boys

我們這一家和三個小孩和兩口子.

in the thick of all this?

我們得到了什麼

There's another factor in our case.

這是我們的另外體會

We have violated yet another taboo

我們同時也犯了另一個禁忌

in our own lives,

在我們的生命裡

and this is a bonus taboo.

這是一個額外的禁忌

AV: A quick bonus taboo for you, that we should not be working together,

一個快速的禁忌分享給各位, 夫妻不該一起工作

especially with three children --

特別有了三個小孩

and we are.

但我們是一起工作的

RG: And we had reservations about this on the front end.

我們在開始的時候仍有保留

Everybody knows, you should absolutely not work with your spouse.

每個人都知道, 你絕對不應該跟你的配偶一起工作

In fact, when we first went out to raise money to start Babble,

事實是, 我們一起掙錢去建立Babble

the venture capitalists said,

我們的投資人說

"We categorically don't invest

"我們通常不會投資給

in companies founded by husbands and wives,

那些由丈夫和太太合辦的公司"

because there's an extra point of failure.

因為這註定會失敗

It's a bad idea. Don't do it."

這不是好主意, 不要做"

And we obviously went forward. We did.

我們顯然向前邁進了, 我們做了

We raised the money, and we're thrilled that we did,

我們掙錢, 對此感到很興奮

because in this phase of one's life,

因為在人生的這個階段

the incredibly scarce resource is time.

極缺乏的資源就是時間

And if you're really passionate about what you do every day -- which we are --

如果你對你每天所做的事都擁有熱情, 就像我們

and you're also passionate about your relationship,

也為伴侶關係感到熱情

this is the only way we know how to do it.

這也是我們知道怎樣做的唯一方法

And so the final question that we would ask is:

所以最後一個我們想發問的問題是

can we collectively bend that happiness chart upwards?

我們是否可以集體的把那個快樂的圖表往上推

It's great that we have these transcendent moments of joy,

我們都有一個特別的快樂時刻, 這是很好的

but they're sometimes pretty quick.

但這些時刻可能過得很快

And so how about that average baseline of happiness?

所以, 我們應該怎樣可以把整個快樂的

Can we move that up a little bit?

基線都往上推一把

AV: And we kind of feel that the happiness gap, which we talked about,

我們所說的這種快樂

is really the result of walking into parenting --

其實正是走進親職這角色的結果

and really any long-term partnership for that matter --

而對一個帶著錯誤期望的長久伴侶來說

with the wrong expectations.

也許這真是一個問題

And if you have the right expectations and expectation management,

假如你有著正確的期望, 也懂得管理你的期望

we feel like it's going to be a pretty gratifying experience.

我們覺得這會是很有滿足感的經驗

RG: And so this is what --

這也是

And we think that a lot of parents,

我們想許多的父母

when you get in there -- in our case anyway --

當你在這裡, 就好像我們一樣

you pack your bags for a trip to Europe, and you're really excited to go.

你收拾好行李準備到歐洲, 你也許很熱切期待

Get out of the airplane,

當你下飛機的時候

it turns out you're trekking in Nepal.

才發現原來自己正在尼泊爾遠足

And trekking in Nepal is an extraordinary experience,

但到尼泊爾遠足也是一個獨特的經驗

particularly if you pack your bags properly

特別是如果你已經把你的行李收拾得好

and you know what you're getting in for and you're psyched.

也明白自己會遇到的情況, 對此很期待的話

So the point of all this for us today

這是我們今天想分享的重點

is not just hopefully honesty for the sake of honesty,

我們並不是為誠實而誠實

but a hope that by being more honest and candid about these experiences,

而是希望能更誠實和坦然的面對這些經驗

that we can all collectively

可以讓我們一起集體的

bend that happiness baseline up a little bit.

把快樂的基線往上推

RG + AV: Thank you.

謝謝

(Applause)

(掌聲)