请双击下面的英文字幕来播放视频。
00:00
Translator: federica bonaldi
Reviewer: Thomas VANDENBOGAERDE
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翻译人员: Chunxiang Qian
校对人员: Linying Deng
00:16
I am the daughter of a forger,
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我是一个赝造者的女儿
00:19
not just any forger ...
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不是一般的赝造者
00:21
When you hear the word "forger," you often understand "mercenary."
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当听到“赝造”这个词 你会想到“唯利是图”
00:24
You understand "forged currency," "forged pictures."
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会想到“赝币” “赝画”
00:27
My father is no such man.
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我父亲不是这样的人
00:29
For 30 years of his life,
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曾经有30年
00:31
he made false papers --
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他从事文件伪造工作
00:33
never for himself, always for other people,
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从来不为自己 只为别人
00:35
and to come to the aid of the persecuted and the oppressed.
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为了受迫害和压迫的人
00:39
Let me introduce him.
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请允许我介绍他
00:41
Here is my father at age 19.
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这是我父亲19岁的时候
00:44
It all began for him during World War II,
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一切开始于二战期间
00:48
when at age 17 he found himself thrust
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年仅17岁的他
00:50
into a forged documents workshop.
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被带进一个伪造文件的作坊
00:52
He quickly became the false papers expert of the Resistance.
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很快他成为抵抗运动一方的文件伪造专家
00:56
And it's not a banal story --
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这不是个平庸的故事
00:58
after the liberation he continued
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解放后他一直
01:01
to make false papers until the '70s.
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伪造文件直到70年代
01:04
When I was a child
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当我还是孩子的时候
01:06
I knew nothing about this, of course.
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当然什么都不懂
01:08
This is me in the middle making faces.
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中间做鬼脸那个就是我
01:11
I grew up in the Paris suburbs
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我在巴黎郊区长大
01:13
and I was the youngest of three children.
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是三个孩子里最小的
01:17
I had a "normal" dad like everybody else,
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我以为他像其他爸爸一样“平凡”
01:20
apart from the fact that he was 30 years older than ...
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除了他(比妈妈)大30岁
01:22
well, he was basically old enough to be my grandfather.
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差不多可以做我祖父了
01:26
Anyway, he was a photographer and a street educator,
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他是一个摄影师 一个街头教育者
01:29
and he always taught us to obey the law very strictly.
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他总是教育我们要遵纪守法
01:32
And, of course, he never talked about his past life
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当然他从没透露过他的过去
01:34
when he was a forger.
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关于他是赝造者的事
01:37
There was, however, an incident I'm going to tell you about,
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但是 下面我要讲一件事
01:39
that perhaps could have led me suspect something.
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这件事差点让我起疑
01:42
I was in high school and got a bad grade,
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我上高中时 有一次考得非常差
01:45
a rare event for me,
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那不是我的常态发挥
01:47
so I decided to hide it from my parents.
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所以我决定藏起来不让父母知道
01:50
In order to do that, I set out to forge their signature.
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为此我着手伪造他们的签名
01:54
I started working on my mother's signature,
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我开始研究我母亲的签名
01:57
because my father's is absolutely impossible to forge.
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因为我父亲的绝对没法伪造
02:00
So, I got working. I took some sheets of paper
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于是我掏出几张纸
02:03
and started practicing, practicing, practicing,
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开始练习 练习 练习
02:06
until I reached what I thought was a steady hand,
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直到我觉得有把握了
02:07
and went into action.
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就开始行动
02:09
Later, while checking my school bag,
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后来 在检查我书包的时候
02:12
my mother got hold of my school assignment and immediately saw that the signature was forged.
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我母亲翻出我的作业 立刻看到了伪造的签名
02:15
She yelled at me like she never had before.
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她史无前例地大声责备我
02:17
I went to hide in my bedroom, under the blankets,
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我躲到房里 藏在毯子底下
02:20
and then I waited for my father to come back from work
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等着父亲下班回家
02:23
with, one could say, much apprehension.
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很是提心吊胆
02:25
I heard him come in.
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我听见他进来
02:27
I remained under the blankets. He entered my room,
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但仍裹在毯子里 他进了屋
02:31
sat on the corner of the bed,
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坐在床角
02:33
and he was silent, so I pulled the blanket from my head,
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一声不吭 我就拉开毯子
02:36
and when he saw me he started laughing.
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他看着我 开始大笑
02:39
He was laughing so hard, he could not stop and he was holding my assignment in his hand.
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他笑得停不下来 手里还拿着我的作业
02:42
Then he said, "But really, Sarah, you could have worked harder! Can't you see it's really too small?"
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他说 “莎拉 你还不够努力 没发现签得太小了吗?”
02:46
Indeed, it's rather small.
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确实是挺小的
02:52
I was born in Algeria.
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我出生于阿尔及利亚
02:54
There I would hear people say my father was a "moudjahid"
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在那里我听见别人说我父亲是个"moudjahid"
02:57
and that means "fighter."
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意思是“斗士”
02:58
Later on, in France, I loved eavesdropping on grownups' conversations,
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后来在法国 我喜欢偷听大人们讲话
03:03
and I would hear all sorts of stories about my father's previous life,
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我听到各种各样的关于我父亲过去的故事
03:06
especially that he had "done" World War II,
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特别是他“参与”二战
03:09
that he had "done" the Algerian war.
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及阿尔及利亚战争的事
03:11
And in my head I would be thinking that "doing" a war meant being a soldier.
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在我的认知里参与战争就是成为士兵
03:14
But knowing my father, and how he kept saying that he was a pacifist and non-violent,
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但我父亲一直宣称他是非暴力的和平主义者
03:17
I found it very hard to picture him with a helmet and gun.
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很难想象他戴着头盔扛着枪
03:21
And indeed, I was very far from the mark.
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确实 我完全猜错了
03:23
One day, while my father was working on a file
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有天 我父亲在做一份证件
03:26
for us to obtain French nationality,
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为了给我们申请法国国籍
03:29
I happened to see some documents
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我正好看见一些文件
03:31
that caught my attention.
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引起了我的注意
03:33
These are real!
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这些都是真的
03:35
These are mine, I was born an Argentinean.
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这些是我的 我成了阿根廷人
03:38
But the document I happened to see
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但我看到的那份
03:40
that would help us build a case for the authorities
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足够当局做立案证据的文件
03:42
was a document from the army
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是一份来自军方
03:44
that thanked my father for his work
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代表特情处
03:48
on behalf of the secret services.
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向我父亲致谢的文件
03:50
And then, suddenly, I went "wow!"
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我一看 “哇”出了声
03:52
My father, a secret agent?
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我父亲是特工?
03:54
It was very James Bond.
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特有007的范儿
03:56
I wanted to ask him questions, which he didn't answer.
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我有很多问题想问 不过他没回答
04:01
And later, I told myself that
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后来我想
04:04
one day I would have to question him.
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总有一天我得问出来
04:07
And then I became a mother and had a son,
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后来我做了母亲 有了一个儿子
04:09
and finally decided it was time -- that he absolutely had to talk to us.
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终于我觉得是时候了 他必须如实告诉我们
04:12
I had become a mother
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我当上母亲时
04:14
and he was celebrating his 77th birthday,
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他正庆祝他的77岁生日
04:16
and suddenly I was very, very afraid.
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我突然非常害怕
04:18
I feared he'd go
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害怕他离开
04:21
and take his silences with him,
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把他的沉默带走
04:23
and take his secrets with him.
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把他的秘密带走
04:24
I managed to convince him that it was important for us,
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我让他知道 他的故事对于我们
04:27
but possibly also for other people
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或许还有别人
04:28
that he shared his story.
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都是很重要的
04:30
He decided to tell it to me
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他决定告诉我他的故事
04:32
and I made a book,
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我将其写成一本书
04:34
from which I'm going to read you some excerpts later.
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一会儿我会为各位读些摘录
04:36
So, his story. My father was born in Argentina.
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关于他的故事 他出生于阿根廷
04:39
His parents were of Russian descent.
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父母是俄裔
04:41
The whole family came to settle in France in the '30s.
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全家人在30年代搬到法国
04:45
His parents were Jewish, Russian and above all, very poor.
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他的父亲是俄裔犹太人 非常贫穷
04:50
So at the age of 14 my father had to work.
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所以我父亲14岁就得开始干活
04:53
And with his only diploma,
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而他的学历
04:54
his primary education certificate,
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仅仅到小学水平
04:55
he found himself working at a dyer - dry cleaner.
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只能到染洗店做工
04:58
That's where he discovered something totally magical,
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在那儿他发现了奇妙的东西
05:01
and when he talks about it, it's fascinating --
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他把那东西说得引人入胜
05:03
it's the magic of dyeing chemistry.
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那就是神奇的染色化学
05:06
During that time the war was happening
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正值战时
05:07
and his mother was killed when he was 15.
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他母亲在他15岁时就被杀害了
05:10
This coincided with the time when
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于是就在这时
05:13
he threw himself body and soul into chemistry
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他开始全身心投入到化学中去
05:15
because it was the only consolation for his sadness.
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这是他排解悲伤的唯一方式
05:17
All day he would ask many questions to his boss
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每天他有一堆问题问老板
05:21
to learn, to accumulate more and more knowledge,
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不断学习 积累越来越多的知识
05:24
and at night, when no one was looking,
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夜深无人的时候
05:25
he'd put his experience to practice.
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他将积累的经验用于实践
05:27
He was mostly interested in ink bleaching.
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他最感兴趣的是墨水脱色
05:33
All this to tell you
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说这么多的意思是
05:35
that if my father became a forger, actually,
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我父亲成为一个赝造者
05:37
it was almost by accident.
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其实是无心之为
05:39
His family was Jewish, so they were hounded.
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他的家人都是犹太人 所以遭到追捕
05:42
Finally they were all arrested and taken to the Drancy camp
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最终他们被捕带往德兰西集中营
05:45
and they managed to get out at the last minute thanks to their Argentinean papers.
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多亏有阿根廷证件 他们得以离开
05:48
Well, they were out,
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虽然他们出来了
05:49
but they were always in danger. The big "Jew" stamp was still on their papers.
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但仍然危险 证件上还盖着“犹太人”的章
05:52
It was my grandfather who decided they needed false documents.
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我祖父决定他们得弄到假证件
05:55
My father had been instilled with such respect for the law
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我父亲一直被教导要做守法公民
05:59
that although he was being persecuted,
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虽然他受到迫害
06:01
he'd never thought of false papers.
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但从没想过办假证件这回事
06:03
But it was he who went to meet a man from the Resistance.
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但他去见了一个来自抵抗军的人
06:06
In those times documents had hard covers,
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那时文件是硬皮的
06:08
they were filled in by hand,
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手写的信息
06:10
and they stated your job.
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上面还要填写工作
06:13
In order to survive, he needed
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为了生存 他需要工作
06:15
to be working. He asked the man
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他让那个人写上
06:17
to write "dyer."
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“染匠”
06:19
Suddenly the man looked very, very interested.
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突然那个人很感兴趣地看着他
06:22
As a "dyer," do you know how to bleach ink marks?
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你是染匠 那你知道怎么去掉墨迹吗?
06:25
Of course he knew.
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他当然知道
06:27
And suddenly the man started explaining that
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突然那个人开始解释
06:29
actually the whole Resistance had a huge problem:
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抵抗军面临一个大问题
06:32
even the top experts
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即使是顶级专家
06:34
could not manage to bleach an ink, called "indelible,"
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也无法去除一种“不可磨灭”的墨迹
06:38
the "Waterman" blue ink.
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即“威迪文”蓝墨水
06:40
And my father immediately replied that he knew exactly
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我父亲立刻回答说他知道
06:44
how to bleach it.
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怎么去除
06:45
Now, of course, the man was very impressed with this young man of 17
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这下 那个人当然对这个17岁的年轻人刮目相看
06:48
who could immediately give him the formula, so he recruited him.
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他能立刻给出方法 所以那个人雇了他
06:52
And actually, without knowing it, my father had invented something
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实际上 我父亲自己都不知道 他发明了
06:55
we can find in every schoolchild's pencil case:
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如今在每个学生笔盒里都能找到的东西
06:58
the so-called "correction pen."
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所谓的“涂改液”
07:01
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
07:07
But it was only the beginning.
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但那只是开始
07:08
That's my father.
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我的父亲
07:10
As soon as he got to the lab,
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他刚到实验室
07:11
even though he was the youngest,
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虽然他是最年轻的
07:13
he immediately saw that there was a problem with the making of forged documents.
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却立刻意识到伪造文件存在一个问题
07:16
All the movements stopped at falsifying.
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所有工程都停在了篡改这一步
07:18
But demand was ever-growing
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篡改已有的文件已经不易
07:21
and it was difficult to tamper with existing documents.
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而且需求一直在增长
07:24
He told himself it was necessary to make them from scratch.
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他告诉自己一切要从零开始
07:25
He started a press. He started photoengraving.
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他安置印刷机 开始修照片
07:28
He started making rubber stamps.
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做橡胶印章
07:30
He started inventing all kind of things --
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发明各种各样的东西
07:31
with some materials he invented a centrifuge using a bicycle wheel.
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他用一个自行车车轮和其他材料造出离心分离机
07:35
Anyway, he had to do all this
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总之 他必须这么做
07:37
because he was completely obsessed with output.
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因为这一切生死攸关
07:40
He had made a simple calculation:
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他做了一个简单计算
07:42
In one hour he could make 30 forged documents.
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他一个小时能做30份文件
07:45
If he slept one hour, 30 people would die.
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如果他睡上一个小时 就会有30个人死去
07:49
This sense of
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从17岁起
07:52
responsibility for other people's lives when he was just 17 --
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这种对他人生命的责任感
07:55
and also his guilt for being a survivor,
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以及没能带朋友一起逃出集中营
07:58
since he had escaped the camp when his friends had not --
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而带来的愧疚感
08:02
stayed with him all his life.
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便跟随了他一生
08:04
And this is maybe what explains why, for 30 years,
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这也许是他30年间
08:07
he continued to make false papers
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不断赝造文件的根源
08:10
at the expense of all kinds of sacrifices.
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不惜任何代价
08:12
I'd like to talk about those sacrifices,
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我想谈谈那些代价
08:13
because there were many.
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因为那是很大的牺牲
08:15
There were obviously financial sacrifices
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首先是经济上的牺牲
08:17
because he always refused to be paid.
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他总是拒绝接受报酬
08:19
To him, being paid would have meant being a mercenary.
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对他而言 接受报酬就意味着他的行为有功利性
08:22
If he had accepted payment,
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如果他收了钱
08:24
he wouldn't be able to say "yes" or "no"
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他就失去了选择做或者不做的权利
08:25
depending on what he deemed a just or unjust cause.
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不管是否正义都要照做
08:28
So he was a photographer by day,
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他白天摄影
08:30
and a forger by night for 30 years.
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晚上造假 持续了30年
08:31
He was broke all of the time.
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一生都穷困不堪
08:33
Then there were the emotional sacrifices:
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同时他也付出了情感上的代价
08:36
How can one live with a woman while having so many secrets?
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一个人怎么能带着这么多秘密与妻子生活在一起?
08:39
How can one explain what one does at night in the lab, every single night?
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他要怎么解释每晚在实验室做什么?
08:43
Of course, there was another kind of sacrifice
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当然 还有另一个牺牲
08:47
involving his family that I understood much later.
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这牵扯到他的家庭 我过了很久才知道
08:50
One day my father introduced me to my sister.
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有天父亲把我介绍给我姐姐
08:53
He also explained to me that I had a brother, too,
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他说我还有个哥哥
08:57
and the first time I saw them I must have been three or four,
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我头次见他们的时候大概三四岁
09:03
and they were 30 years older than me.
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而他们比我长30多岁
09:05
They are both in their sixties now.
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现在都已经60多了
09:11
In order to write the book,
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为了写这本书
09:13
I asked my sister questions. I wanted to know who my father was,
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我向姐姐询问 想了解父亲
09:17
who was the father she had known.
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她眼中的父亲
09:18
She explained that the father that she'd had
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她说她眼里的父亲
09:22
would tell them he'd come and pick them up on Sunday to go for a walk.
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总是告诉他们周日会带他们去散步
09:27
They would get all dressed up and wait for him,
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他们会穿得整整齐齐地等他
09:29
but he would almost never come.
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但他几乎从来不出现
09:31
He'd say, "I'll call." He wouldn't call.
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他说他会给他们打电话 但他没有
09:34
And then he would not come.
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后来他不回家了
09:36
Then one day he totally disappeared.
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有天他再也不出现了
09:40
Time passed,
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时光飞逝
09:41
and they thought he had surely forgotten them,
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他们觉得他一定早就忘记他们了
09:44
at first.
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一开始是那样想
09:46
Then as time passed,
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再后来 时光匆匆
09:47
at the end of almost two years, they thought,
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大概两年后 他们想
09:49
"Well, perhaps our father has died."
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也许父亲已经死了
09:52
And then I understood
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然后我明白了
09:55
that asking my father so many questions
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问父亲那么多问题
09:58
was stirring up a whole past he probably didn't feel like talking about
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是在勾起他不愿重提的旧事
10:00
because it was painful.
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因为那是很痛的回忆
10:02
And while my half brother and sister thought they'd been abandoned,
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正当我的姐姐哥哥以为他们被抛弃
10:07
orphaned,
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成为了孤儿的时候
10:08
my father was making false papers.
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我父亲却在伪造文件
10:11
And if he did not tell them, it was of course to protect them.
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他没告诉他们 当然是为了保护他们
10:14
After the liberation he made false papers
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解放后 他伪造文件
10:16
to allow the survivors of concentration camps to immigrate to Palestine
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帮助集中营的幸存者移民到巴勒斯坦
10:19
before the creation of Israel.
228
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1900
那时以色列还未建国
10:21
And then, as he was a staunch anti-colonialist,
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后来他成为坚定的反殖民主义者
10:23
he made false papers for Algerians during the Algerian war.
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在阿尔及利亚战争期间帮助阿尔及利亚人伪造文件
10:27
After the Algerian war,
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阿战后
10:29
at the heart of the international resistance movements,
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2600
在国际抵抗运动的中心
10:32
his name circulated
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流传着他的名字
10:34
and the whole world came knocking at his door.
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越来越多人找他帮忙
10:36
In Africa there were countries fighting for their independence:
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3500
在非洲 有些国家在为独立而战
10:39
Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Angola.
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几内亚 几内亚比绍 安哥拉
10:42
And then my father connected with Nelson Mandela's anti-apartheid party.
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4500
后来我父亲接触到尼尔森·曼德拉的反种族隔离党派
10:47
He made false papers for persecuted black South Africans.
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3500
他为受迫害的南非黑人伪造文件
10:50
There was also Latin America.
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1800
还有拉丁美洲人
10:52
My father helped those who resisted dictatorships
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我父亲帮助那些不屈从独裁统治的人
10:55
in the Dominican Republic, Haiti,
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1900
先是在多米尼克共和国 海地
10:57
and then it was the turn of Brazil, Argentina, Venezuela, El Salvador, Nicaragua,
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然后是巴西 阿根廷 委内瑞拉 厄尔萨瓜多尔 尼加拉瓜
11:03
Colombia, Peru, Uruguay, Chile and Mexico.
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5600
哥伦比亚 祕鲁 乌拉圭 智利和墨西哥
11:09
Then there was the Vietnam War.
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1700
后来越战期间
11:10
My father made false papers for the American deserters
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2300
我父亲为美国逃兵伪造文件
11:13
who did not wish to take up arms against the Vietnamese.
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因为他们不想对越南人使用暴力
11:16
Europe was not spared either.
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欧洲也没被漏掉
11:18
My father made false papers for the dissidents
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我父亲为持不同政见者伪造文件
11:20
against Franco in Spain, Salazar in Portugal,
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有西班牙反弗朗科者 葡萄牙反萨拉萨尔者
11:24
against the colonels' dictatorship in Greece,
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希腊反上校团独裁统治者
11:29
and even in France.
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甚至在法国
11:30
There, just once, it happened in May of 1968.
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只有一次 那是1968年的5月
11:34
My father watched, benevolently, of course,
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2645
我父亲看到了五月游行
11:36
the demonstrations of the month of May,
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但他仅仅是看而已
11:39
but his heart was elsewhere, and so was his time
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2300
他的心不在那 也没时间理会
11:41
because he had over 15 countries to serve.
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因为他要为15个国家服务
11:45
Once, though, he agreed to make false papers
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有次 他同意给一个人伪造文件
11:47
for someone you might recognize.
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1943
这个人你们也许认识
11:49
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
11:52
He was much younger in those days,
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1620
那时候他还很年轻
11:54
and my father agreed to make false papers
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我父亲同意做假证件
11:56
to enable him to come back and speak at a meeting.
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使他可以回国到一个会议上发言
11:59
He told me that those false papers were the most media-relevant
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他告诉我那是他做过的最和媒体相关
12:04
and the least useful he'd had to make in all his life.
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也是最没用的证件
12:07
But, he agreed to do it,
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1500
但他还是同意了
12:09
even though Daniel Cohn-Bendit's life was not in danger,
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尽管丹尼尔·科恩·本迪没有生命危险
12:12
just because
267
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2194
只是因为
12:14
it was a good opportunity
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那是个嘲弄政府的
12:16
to mock the authorities,
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好机会
12:18
and to show them that there's nothing more porous than borders --
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3015
并且能告诉他们国界线有多不严实
12:21
and that ideas have no borders.
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思想是没有国界的
12:26
All my childhood,
272
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2000
我小的时候
12:28
while my friends' dads would tell them Grimm's fairy tales,
273
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朋友们的爸爸都会给他们讲格林童话
12:32
my father would tell me stories about very unassuming heroes
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我父亲却给我讲低调的英雄
12:36
with unshakeable utopias
275
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2916
他们怀抱建立乌托邦的坚定理想
12:39
who managed to make miracles.
276
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2916
创造出奇迹
12:42
And those heroes did not need an army behind them.
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那些英雄不需要军队
12:46
Anyhow, nobody would have followed them,
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本来也没有人愿意跟随他们
12:48
except for a handful [of] men and women of conviction and courage.
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除了少数有信仰和勇气的人
12:51
I understood much later
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1254
我后来才知道
12:53
that actually it was his own story my father would tell me to get me to sleep.
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他哄我睡觉时讲的都是他自己的故事
12:56
I asked him whether, considering the sacrifices he had to make,
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2916
我问他 牺牲了这么多
12:59
he ever had any regrets.
283
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1944
他是否后悔过
13:01
He said no.
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1730
他说不
13:03
He told me that he would have been unable
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2159
他说他无法
13:05
to witness or submit to injustice without doing anything.
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2916
对非正义行为视而不见
13:08
He was persuaded, and he's still convinced
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3023
他曾受过迫害 但他仍然相信
13:11
that another world is possible --
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有这样一个世界
13:13
a world where no one would ever need a forger.
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那里不需要赝造者
13:16
He's still dreaming about it.
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他现在仍如此期望
13:18
My father
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我的父亲
13:20
is here in the room today.
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今天就在这个房间
13:21
His name is Adolfo Kaminsky and I'm going to ask him to stand up.
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他的名字是阿道夫・卡明斯基 我将请他站起来
13:25
(Applause)
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(鼓掌)
13:46
Thank you.
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谢谢
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