Dan Barber: How I fell in love with a fish

354,120 views ・ 2010-03-10

TED


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翻译人员: Yi Zong 校对人员: Zachary Lin Zhao
00:16
So, I've known a lot of fish in my life.
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我一生中接触过很多鱼。
00:20
I've loved only two.
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只有两种是我的最爱。
00:23
That first one,
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第一种,
00:25
it was more like a passionate affair.
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是源于激情。
00:28
It was a beautiful fish:
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它是一条美丽的鱼,
00:30
flavorful, textured, meaty,
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美味,纹理细腻,肉质丰富,
00:33
a bestseller on the menu.
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是菜单上最受欢迎的鱼。
00:35
What a fish.
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多么美的鱼啊!
00:37
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
00:40
Even better,
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更好的是,
00:42
it was farm-raised to the supposed highest standards
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它是依照最高标准养殖的,
00:45
of sustainability.
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目的是保持它的可持续性的。
00:48
So you could feel good about selling it.
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而卖他的人也会感到心安理得。
00:52
I was in a relationship with this beauty
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我曾经沉醉于这美丽的关系中,
00:54
for several months.
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时间大概延续了几个月。
00:58
One day, the head of the company called
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有一天,这个公司的高层打电话给我
01:00
and asked if I'd speak at an event
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邀请我参加一个活动
01:02
about the farm's sustainability.
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并就渔业的可持续性发展发表演说。
01:04
"Absolutely," I said.
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我说,“当然可以”。
01:06
Here was a company trying to solve
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这个公司正是要试图解决一个
01:09
what's become this unimaginable problem for us chefs:
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对于我们厨师来说正在变得不可想象的问题。
01:13
How do we keep fish on our menus?
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“我们如何把鱼类留在菜单上?”
01:17
For the past 50 years,
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在过去的50年中,
01:20
we've been fishing the seas
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我们从各个海洋中捕鱼
01:22
like we clear-cut forests.
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就像是砍伐树木。
01:25
It's hard to overstate the destruction.
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绝不是夸大它的破坏性。
01:30
Ninety percent of large fish, the ones we love --
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90%的大型鱼类,那些我们喜爱的种类,
01:33
the tunas, the halibuts, the salmons, swordfish --
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金枪鱼,大比目鱼,三鲑鱼,剑鱼,
01:36
they've collapsed.
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他们都要灭绝了。
01:38
There's almost nothing left.
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几乎没有多少剩下了。
01:41
So, for better or for worse,
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所以,不管是好是坏,
01:44
aquaculture, fish farming, is going to be a part of our future.
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水产养殖业,养鱼业,都会成为我们未来的一部分。
01:47
A lot of arguments against it:
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有很多针对这个行业的言论。
01:49
Fish farms pollute -- most of them do anyway --
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其实它们大部分都是关于养鱼业会污染环境,
01:52
and they're inefficient. Take tuna,
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而且效率很低,比如说金枪鱼。
01:54
a major drawback.
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最大的弊病就是,
01:56
It's got a feed conversion ratio
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养殖金枪鱼的饲料转换率是
01:58
of 15 to one.
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15比1。
02:00
That means it takes fifteen pounds of wild fish
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这个意思是说,每生产1磅金枪鱼肉
02:02
to get you one pound of farm tuna.
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要耗费15磅用其他野生鱼类做的饲料。
02:06
Not very sustainable.
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这可不是很具有可持续发展性。
02:08
It doesn't taste very good either.
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而且也不好吃。
02:11
So here, finally,
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最后,
02:13
was a company trying to do it right.
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这个公司想做些正确事情。
02:15
I wanted to support them.
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我也想支持他们。
02:18
The day before the event,
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在那次活动的前一天,
02:20
I called the head of P.R. for the company.
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我联系了公司的公关部门头头。
02:23
Let's call him Don.
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就让我们暂且称呼他为“唐阁下”。
02:27
"Don," I said, "just to get the facts straight, you guys are famous
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我说:“唐阁下, 据我说知,事实是这样的,你们在海洋捕鱼业十分出名,
02:30
for farming so far out to sea, you don't pollute."
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而且你们不会产生污染。”
02:33
"That's right," he said. "We're so far out,
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他回应: “你说的对。我们作业的地点很远,
02:36
the waste from our fish gets distributed,
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我们捕鱼所产生的污染物都被稀释掉了,
02:39
not concentrated."
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不会集中残留在一个地方。”
02:41
And then he added,
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然后他补充到,
02:43
"We're basically a world unto ourselves.
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“我们算得上是独树一帜。
02:47
That feed conversion ratio? 2.5 to one," he said.
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饲料转换率?2.5比1,” 他说。
02:50
"Best in the business."
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“行业中最好的。”
02:52
2.5 to one, great.
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2.5比1,很好。
02:54
"2.5 what? What are you feeding?"
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“什么2.5比1?你们在喂什么?”
02:56
"Sustainable proteins," he said.
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他回答道:“可持续性蛋白质”。
02:59
"Great," I said. Got off the phone.
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我说:“很好”。然后挂了电话。
03:02
And that night, I was lying in bed, and I thought:
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结果那晚,我躺在床上想:
03:05
What the hell is a sustainable protein?
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可持续性蛋白质是什么鬼东西?
03:07
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
03:12
So the next day, just before the event, I called Don.
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所以第二天,就在那个活动之前,我打电话给唐阁下。
03:14
I said, "Don, what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"
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我问道:'唐阁下,你有没有一些可持续性蛋白质的例子?"
03:18
He said he didn't know. He would ask around.
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他说他不知道。他会去问问周围的人。
03:21
Well, I got on the phone with a few people in the company;
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然后,我和这个公司里的一些人通了电话。
03:23
no one could give me a straight answer
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但是没有人能给我一个明确的答案。
03:26
until finally, I got on the phone
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直到最后,我通上了电话
03:29
with the head biologist.
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对方是生物学专家。
03:31
Let's call him Don too.
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让我也暂且叫他 “唐阁下”。
03:33
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
03:37
"Don," I said,
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我说:“唐阁下”
03:39
"what are some examples of sustainable proteins?"
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“可以举例说明一下可持续性蛋白质吗?”
03:42
Well, he mentioned some algaes
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恩,他提到了一些藻类
03:44
and some fish meals,
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还有一些鱼食,
03:46
and then he said chicken pellets.
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然后他提到鸡丸。
03:48
I said, "Chicken pellets?"
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我问道: “鸡丸?”
03:50
He said, "Yeah, feathers, skin,
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他说,“是,羽毛,鸡皮,
03:52
bone meal, scraps,
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骨骼,排泄物,
03:54
dried and processed into feed."
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被晒干加工后添入饲料。”
03:57
I said, "What percentage
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我说:“鸡在饲料中的比例
03:59
of your feed is chicken?"
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是多少?”
04:02
Thinking, you know, two percent.
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想一下,你知道,2%。
04:05
"Well, it's about 30 percent," he said.
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结果他说:“恩,大概占30%,”
04:08
I said, "Don, what's sustainable
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我说,“唐阁下,用鸡喂鱼,
04:11
about feeding chicken to fish?"
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这算什么可持续发展性?”
04:13
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:18
There was a long pause on the line,
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电话的那边安静了很长时间,
04:21
and he said, "There's just too much chicken in the world."
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然后他对我说, “世界上就是有太多的鸡了。”
04:24
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:30
I fell out of love with this fish.
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于是,我不再爱这个鱼了。
04:32
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:34
No, not because I'm some self-righteous,
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不,不是因为我是个自以为是,
04:37
goody-two shoes foodie.
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伪善的美食家。
04:39
I actually am.
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其实我是这样的人。
04:41
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:43
No, I actually fell out of love with this fish because, I swear to God,
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不,我不再爱这个鱼了,是因为,我向上帝发誓,
04:45
after that conversation, the fish tasted like chicken.
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在那次对话之后,那个鱼尝起来更像鸡。
04:48
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
04:58
This second fish,
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这第二条鱼,
05:01
it's a different kind of love story.
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它则是另一种不同的爱情故事。
05:04
It's the romantic kind,
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是很浪漫的那种,
05:07
the kind where the more you get to know your fish,
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那种你越多了解你的鱼,
05:10
you love the fish.
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你就越爱它。
05:13
I first ate it at a restaurant
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我第一次在一个饭店中吃到这种鱼,
05:15
in southern Spain.
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位置在西班牙南部。
05:17
A journalist friend had been talking about this fish for a long time.
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很久以前一个记者朋友和我说过这里。
05:20
She kind of set us up.
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她可以说是个媒人。
05:22
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
05:24
It came to the table
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那条鱼在桌子上
05:26
a bright, almost shimmering, white color.
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很亮,有着光晕,白色的那种。
05:31
The chef had overcooked it.
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厨师烹饪它的时间过长了。
05:34
Like twice over.
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好像是烹饪了两次。
05:37
Amazingly, it was still delicious.
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但是太神奇了,它还是很好吃。
05:40
Who can make a fish taste good
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谁可以做出这样好吃的鱼
05:44
after it's been overcooked?
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而且还是在烹饪时间过长的情况下?
05:46
I can't,
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我不能,
05:48
but this guy can.
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但是这个人可以。
05:50
Let's call him Miguel --
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让我们叫他米格尔。
05:52
actually his name is Miguel.
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其实他的名字就是米格尔。
05:54
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
05:57
And no, he didn't cook the fish, and he's not a chef,
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但是,他没有烹调那条鱼,他也不是个厨师。
05:59
at least in the way that you and I understand it.
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至少在你我理解的方式之内他不是。
06:03
He's a biologist
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他是一个生物学家
06:05
at Veta La Palma.
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在薇塔拉帕尔马。
06:07
It's a fish farm in the southwestern corner of Spain.
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他是个位于西班牙西南角的养鱼场。
06:10
It's at the tip of the Guadalquivir river.
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他就在高达尔克维尔河的尖部。
06:13
Until the 1980s,
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直到上个世纪80年代,
06:15
the farm was in the hands of the Argentinians.
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这个渔场是阿根廷人管辖的。
06:18
They raised beef cattle
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他们在这里养牛
06:20
on what was essentially wetlands.
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那个时候这里基本上是湿地。
06:23
They did it by draining the land.
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当时他们把水抽走。
06:25
They built this intricate series of canals,
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然后建造一系列复杂的运河,
06:28
and they pushed water off the land and out into the river.
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他们接着把这里的水排入河流。
06:32
Well, they couldn't make it work,
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但是,他们没有成功,
06:34
not economically.
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我是指经济方面。
06:36
And ecologically, it was a disaster.
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而且对周围的环境造成了巨大的灾难。
06:39
It killed like 90 percent of the birds,
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周围差不多90%的鸟类都消失了,
06:41
which, for this place, is a lot of birds.
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而在这个地区那些是很多的鸟。
06:44
And so in 1982,
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到了1982年,
06:46
a Spanish company with an environmental conscience
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一家具有环保意识的的西班牙公司
06:48
purchased the land.
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购买了这块地。
06:50
What did they do?
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他们做过什么?
06:52
They reversed the flow of water.
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他们逆转了水流的方向。
06:54
They literally flipped the switch.
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他们基本上是搬动卡关。
06:56
Instead of pushing water out,
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代替排水,
06:58
they used the channels to pull water back in.
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他们用这个水渠来把水引进来。
07:00
They flooded the canals.
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他们用水填满了这个运河。
07:02
They created a 27,000-acre fish farm --
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然后建立了一个27000英亩的渔场--
07:06
bass, mullet,
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鲈鱼,梭鱼,
07:08
shrimp, eel --
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虾,鳗鱼 -
07:11
and in the process, Miguel and this company
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在这个工程中,米格尔,还有这个公司,
07:14
completely reversed the ecological destruction.
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完全挽救了这次生态灾难。
07:18
The farm's incredible.
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这个渔场太了不起了。
07:20
I mean, you've never seen anything like this.
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我的意思是说,你从没见过类似的地方。
07:23
You stare out at a horizon
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我看着地平线
07:26
that is a million miles away,
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它是那么的广阔,
07:28
and all you see are flooded canals
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引入您视野的都是被注满水的河道
07:30
and this thick, rich marshland.
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和这个富饶的沼泽湿地
07:35
I was there not long ago with Miguel.
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不久前,我和米格尔去过那儿。
07:38
He's an amazing guy,
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他是个了不起的人,
07:41
like three parts Charles Darwin and one part Crocodile Dundee.
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¾是达尔文,¼是鳄鱼邓迪。
07:44
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
07:46
Okay? There we are slogging through the wetlands,
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我们进入了湿地,
07:50
and I'm panting and sweating, got mud up to my knees,
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而我是气喘吁吁汗流浃背,淤泥没到了我的膝盖,
07:52
and Miguel's calmly conducting a biology lecture.
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还有米格尔静静讲述的生物讲义。
07:56
Here, he's pointing out a rare Black-shouldered Kite.
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这儿,他指向一只罕见的黑肩鸢。
07:59
Now, he's mentioning the mineral needs of phytoplankton.
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这是,他提到可以满足矿物质需求的浮游植物。
08:03
And here, here he sees a grouping pattern
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还有这,他看到一组图案
08:06
that reminds him of the Tanzanian Giraffe.
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让人联想起坦桑尼亚长颈鹿。
08:11
It turns out, Miguel spent the better part of his career
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结果,米格尔曾经花了很长时间工作在
08:14
in the Mikumi National Park in Africa.
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非洲的米库米国家公园。
08:17
I asked him how he became
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我问他是怎么
08:19
such an expert on fish.
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成为一位鱼类专家的。
08:21
He said, "Fish? I didn't know anything about fish.
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他说: “鱼?我不了解他们。
08:24
I'm an expert in relationships."
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我只是一个关系专家。”
08:27
And then he's off, launching into more talk
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然后他发起了更多的对话
08:29
about rare birds and algaes
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都是有关于稀有鸟类和藻类
08:31
and strange aquatic plants.
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还有特殊的水生植物。
08:33
And don't get me wrong, that was really fascinating, you know,
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请不要误解我,那样的谈话真的是引人入胜,
08:36
the biotic community unplugged, kind of thing.
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关于生物群落一类的事情。
08:39
It's great, but I was in love.
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这都很好,但是我恋爱了。
08:42
And my head was swooning over that
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我脑中始终惦记着那条
08:45
overcooked piece of delicious fish I had the night before.
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我前一晚品尝过被过度烹饪的美味的鱼。
08:48
So I interrupted him. I said,
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所以我中断了他。我说,
08:50
"Miguel, what makes your fish taste so good?"
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“米格尔,什么使你的鱼那么好吃?"
08:52
He pointed at the algae.
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他指向藻类。
08:54
"I know, dude, the algae, the phytoplankton,
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“我知道,兄弟,藻类,浮游植物,
08:57
the relationships: It's amazing.
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关系,这些都很神奇。
09:00
But what are your fish eating?
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但是你的鱼吃什么?
09:02
What's the feed conversion ratio?"
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饲料转换率是多少??”
09:05
Well, he goes on to tell me
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然后他继续告诉我
09:09
it's such a rich system
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这是一个很富饶的系统,
09:11
that the fish are eating what they'd be eating in the wild.
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这些鱼吃的就是它们在野外吃的东西。
09:14
The plant biomass, the phytoplankton,
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植物的生物质,浮游植物,
09:17
the zooplankton, it's what feeds the fish.
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浮游生物,都是鱼的饲料。
09:19
The system is so healthy,
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这个系统非常健康,
09:21
it's totally self-renewing.
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它完全是自我更新的。
09:23
There is no feed.
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没有任何饲料。
09:26
Ever heard of a farm that doesn't feed its animals?
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听说过一个不喂动物饲料的农场吗?
09:33
Later that day, I was driving around this property with Miguel,
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那天晚些时候,我和米格尔开着车在周围兜风,
09:35
and I asked him, I said, "For a place that seems so natural,
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我问他,“这样一个看起来如此自然的地方,”
09:39
unlike like any farm I'd ever been at,
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不像其它任何一个我曾经见过的农场,
09:44
how do you measure success?"
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“你如何衡量成功?”
09:47
At that moment, it was as if
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就在那时,仿佛有一位
09:50
a film director called for a set change.
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电影导演突然要求改变场景。
09:52
And we rounded the corner
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我们转过弯
09:54
and saw the most amazing sight:
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看到最美的画面,
09:56
thousands and thousands of pink flamingos,
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成千上万的粉色火烈鸟,
09:59
a literal pink carpet for as far as you could see.
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可以说是一张粉色的地毯。
10:03
"That's success," he said.
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他说,“那就是成功。”
10:06
"Look at their bellies, pink.
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“看他们的腹部,粉色的。
10:08
They're feasting."
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他们正在享受盛宴。”
10:10
Feasting? I was totally confused.
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盛宴?我完全迷惑了。
10:12
I said, "Miguel, aren't they feasting on your fish?"
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我说,“米格尔,他们的盛宴不正是你的鱼吗?”
10:14
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
10:16
"Yes," he said.
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“正是,"他说。
10:18
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
10:24
"We lose 20 percent of our fish
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“鸟类会吃掉我们20%的鱼
10:26
and fish eggs to birds.
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还有鱼卵。
10:30
Well, last year, this property
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而且,去年,这个渔场
10:32
had 600,000 birds on it,
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有600000只鸟,
10:34
more than 250 different species.
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超过250个不同的种群。
10:36
It's become, today, the largest
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今天,这里已经成为最大的
10:39
and one of the most important
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而且是全欧洲最重要的
10:42
private bird sanctuaries in all of Europe."
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私有鸟类自然保护区之一。
10:46
I said, "Miguel, isn't a thriving bird population
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我说,“米格尔,这么多的鸟类数量
10:49
like the last thing you want on a fish farm?"
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不是一个渔场最不想要到的吗?”
10:51
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
10:53
He shook his head, no.
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不,他摇摇头。
10:55
He said, "We farm extensively,
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他说, “我们是广义上的养殖,
10:58
not intensively.
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不是刻意的。
11:01
This is an ecological network.
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这是一个生态网络。
11:04
The flamingos eat the shrimp.
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这些火烈鸟吃掉虾。
11:06
The shrimp eat the phytoplankton.
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虾吃浮游动物。
11:08
So the pinker the belly,
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所以他们的肚子上粉色越鲜艳,
11:10
the better the system."
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代表这个系统越好。”
11:13
Okay, so let's review:
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好的,让我们重新审视一下。
11:15
a farm that doesn't feed its animals,
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一个农场不给它的动物喂食,
11:18
and a farm that measures its success
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而且它衡量自己的成功是
11:21
on the health of its predators.
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根据它的天敌。
11:23
A fish farm, but also a bird sanctuary.
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一个渔场,同时也是个鸟类庇护所。
11:26
Oh, and by the way, those flamingos,
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而且,顺便说一句,那些火烈鸟,
11:28
they shouldn't even be there in the first place.
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它们本不应该在那里。
11:30
They brood in a town
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它们在城里繁殖
11:32
150 miles away,
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而且是在150英里以外的,
11:34
where the soil conditions
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那里的土壤状况
11:36
are better for building nests.
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更加适合做巢。
11:38
Every morning, they fly
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每天早上,它们飞行
11:40
150 miles into the farm.
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150英里来到这个渔场。
11:44
And every evening, they fly 150 miles back.
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到了晚上,他们在飞行150英里回家。
11:47
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
11:54
They do that because they're able to follow
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他们这样做是因为他们能顺着
11:57
the broken white line
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A92号高速公路
11:59
of highway A92.
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的白线。
12:01
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
12:03
No kidding.
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没开玩笑。
12:05
I was imagining a "March of the Penguins" thing,
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我一直在脑海中想象类似【帝企鹅日记】的事,
12:08
so I looked at Miguel.
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我看着米格尔。
12:10
I said, "Miguel, do they fly
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我说,“米格尔,它们飞行
12:12
150 miles to the farm,
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150英里来渔场,
12:14
and then do they fly
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然后它们晚上再
12:16
150 miles back at night?
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飞150英里回去吗?
12:18
Do they do that for the children?"
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它们这么做是为了孩子吗?”
12:21
He looked at me like I had just quoted a Whitney Houston song.
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他看着我就像是我刚刚引用了惠特尼休斯顿的歌。
12:24
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
12:28
He said, "No; they do it because the food's better."
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他说,“不,他们这么做因为这里的食物更好。”
12:31
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
12:33
I didn't mention the skin of my beloved fish,
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我还没有提到我最爱的鱼的皮吧,
12:41
which was delicious -- and I don't like fish skin;
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真的是很美味,而且我通常不喜欢鱼皮。
12:43
I don't like it seared, I don't like it crispy.
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我通常不喜欢烤的。我也不喜欢脆的。
12:46
It's that acrid, tar-like flavor.
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它有辛辣,像柏油那样的味道。
12:50
I almost never cook with it.
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我从不把它和鱼一起做。
12:53
Yet, when I tasted it at that restaurant in southern Spain,
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但是,当我在西班牙南部的那个餐馆尝到它的时候,
12:56
it tasted not at all like fish skin.
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尝起来不像是鱼皮。
12:59
It tasted sweet and clean,
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它尝起来微甜而且干净
13:02
like you were taking a bite of the ocean.
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就像你尝了一口海洋自然的味道。
13:05
I mentioned that to Miguel, and he nodded.
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我向米格尔提到我的想法,他点点头。
13:07
He said, "The skin acts like a sponge.
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他说,“鱼皮的作用就像是海绵。
13:09
It's the last defense before anything enters the body.
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它是阻止任何物质进入到体内的最后的防线。
13:12
It evolved to soak up impurities."
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它的作用是吸收杂质。”
13:14
And then he added,
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然后他继续说,
13:16
"But our water has no impurities."
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“但是我们的水没有杂质.”
13:22
OK. A farm that doesn't feed its fish,
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好的。一个渔厂不喂它的鱼。
13:26
a farm that measures its success
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一个渔场衡量它的成功
13:29
by the success of its predators.
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是依照它天敌的成功。
13:31
And then I realized when he says,
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然后我意识到当他说,
13:33
"A farm that has no impurities,"
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一个渔场没有杂质,
13:36
he made a big understatement,
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他轻描淡写的说,
13:38
because the water that flows through that farm
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因为在渔场中流过的水
13:40
comes in from the Guadalquivir River.
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来自于高达尔克维尔河。
13:43
It's a river that carries with it
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那条河中含有
13:45
all the things that rivers tend to carry these days:
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现在所有的一条河里都有的东西,
13:48
chemical contaminants,
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化学污染物,
13:50
pesticide runoff.
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农药残留。
13:52
And when it works its way through the system
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然后当它进入这个系统
13:55
and leaves,
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之后离开时,
13:57
the water is cleaner than when it entered.
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水质变得比来时更干净。
13:59
The system is so healthy, it purifies the water.
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这个系统很卫生,它可以过滤这儿的水。
14:03
So, not just a farm that doesn't feed its animals,
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所以,这个渔场不只是不喂动物,
14:05
not just a farm that measures its success
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不只是衡量它的成功
14:08
by the health of its predators,
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根据天敌的健康状况,
14:10
but a farm that's literally a water purification plant --
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但是是一个渔场基本上还是个水净化厂,
14:16
and not just for those fish,
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而且不仅仅是为那些鱼,
14:19
but for you and me as well.
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更是为了你和我。
14:21
Because when that water leaves, it dumps out into the Atlantic.
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因为当水离开这里时,它会流入大西洋。
14:26
A drop in the ocean, I know,
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我知道,这个作用是十分微薄的,
14:28
but I'll take it, and so should you,
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但是我很重视它,而且你们应该也是,
14:31
because this love story,
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因为这个爱情故事,
14:35
however romantic,
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不但浪漫,
14:37
is also instructive.
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而且有教育意义。
14:39
You might say it's a recipe
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你也许会说它是未来
14:41
for the future of good food,
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美食的食谱,
14:43
whether we're talking about bass or beef cattle.
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不管是我们在说鲈鱼还是牛肉。
14:47
What we need now is
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我们现在需要的是
14:49
a radically new conception of agriculture,
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一个全新的农业概念,
14:52
one in which the food actually tastes good.
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一种真正的美食。
14:54
(Laughter)
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(笑声)
14:56
(Applause)
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(掌声)
15:02
But for a lot people,
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但是对很多人来说,
15:04
that's a bit too radical.
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那太极端了。
15:07
We're not realists, us foodies;
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我们不是现实主义者,我们的美食家。
15:09
we're lovers.
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我们是爱人。
15:11
We love farmers' markets,
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我们爱农产品市场。
15:13
we love small family farms,
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我们爱小型的家庭式农场。
15:16
we talk about local food,
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我们谈论区域性食品。
15:18
we eat organic.
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我们吃有机食品。
15:21
And when you suggest these are the things
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然后当你建议这些食品
15:23
that will ensure the future of good food,
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会保证未来的美食,
15:27
someone, somewhere stands up and says,
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某人在某地站起来说,
15:29
"Hey guy, I love pink flamingos,
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"我说哥们,我爱粉色的火烈鸟,
15:33
but how are you going to feed the world?"
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但是你怎么让这个世界填饱肚子?
15:36
How are you going to feed the world?
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你怎么为这个世界填饱肚子?"
15:39
Can I be honest?
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我可以坦诚点吗?
15:41
I don't love that question.
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我不喜欢你的问题。
15:44
No, not because we already produce
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不,不只是因为我们已经生产
15:46
enough calories to more than feed the world.
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了远远超出我们这个世界需要的卡路里。
15:49
One billion people will go hungry today.
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今天十亿人还是在饿着肚子。
15:52
One billion -- that's more than ever before --
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十亿--那比以前任何时候都多--
15:56
because of gross inequalities in distribution,
341
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根本原因在于总体上的分配不平衡,
15:59
not tonnage.
342
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不是按吨位算的。
16:02
Now, I don't love this question because it's determined the logic
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我不喜欢这个问题的真正原因是因为他拟定了一个食物系统的
16:04
of our food system for the last 50 years.
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逻辑,一个存在于过去的50年中的逻辑。
16:07
Feed grain to herbivores,
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把谷物喂给食草动物,
16:10
pesticides to monocultures, chemicals to soil,
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把农药给单品种作物,化学品给土壤,
16:12
chicken to fish,
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把鸡给鱼,
16:15
and all along agribusiness
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然后各类农业可以
16:18
has simply asked,
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简单的问,
16:20
"If we're feeding more people more cheaply,
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“如果我们用更便宜的方法养活更多的人,
16:22
how terrible could that be?"
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有什么不对的呢?”
16:25
That's been the motivation,
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那就是一个动机。
16:27
it's been the justification:
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它已经变得合乎情理了。
16:29
it's been the business plan
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它是一个商业计划
16:32
of American agriculture.
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属于美国农业的。
16:34
We should call it what it is:
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我们应该指出它的真面目,
16:36
a business in liquidation,
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一个在清算的生意,
16:39
a business that's quickly eroding
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一个迅速侵蚀的生意
16:42
ecological capital that makes that very production possible.
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生态资本使得这种生产成为可能。
16:45
That's not a business,
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那不是一个生意,
16:47
and it isn't agriculture.
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它也不是农业。
16:49
Our breadbasket is threatened today,
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今天我们的食品正在受到威胁,
16:52
not because of diminishing supply,
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不是因为正在递减的供给,
16:54
but because of diminishing resources.
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而是因为正在递减的资源,
16:57
Not by the latest combine and tractor invention,
365
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不是靠最新的嫁接技术与拖拉机的发明,
17:00
but by fertile land;
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而是肥沃的土壤,
17:02
not by pumps, but by fresh water;
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不是靠水泵,而是靠新鲜的水源,
17:05
not by chainsaws, but by forests;
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不是靠电锯,而是靠森林,
17:08
and not by fishing boats and nets, but by fish in the sea.
369
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不是靠渔船和渔网,而是靠海洋里的鱼。
17:11
Want to feed the world?
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想要喂饱这个世界?
17:13
Let's start by asking: How are we going to feed ourselves?
371
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让我们开始问:我们怎么去喂养我们自己?
17:17
Or better: How can we create conditions
372
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或者更好的,我们怎么去建立一种环境
17:20
that enable every community
373
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它可以让每一个团体
17:23
to feed itself?
374
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去养活自己?
17:25
(Applause)
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(掌声)
17:32
To do that,
376
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要做到那样,
17:34
don't look at the agribusiness model for the future.
377
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不要指望未来沿用现在的农业模型。
17:37
It's really old, and it's tired.
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它已经过时了,而且很疲劳。
17:39
It's high on capital, chemistry and machines,
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因为它过度依赖资本,化学,和机械,
17:43
and it's never produced anything really good to eat.
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而且它生产不出来真正的好食品。
17:48
Instead, let's look to the ecological model.
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取而代之,让我们看看生态模式。
17:52
That's the one that relies on two billion years
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它存在了20亿年
17:55
of on-the-job experience.
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同时具有实战经验。
17:58
Look to Miguel,
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看看米格尔,
18:00
farmers like Miguel.
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看看像米格尔这样的农民,
18:02
Farms that aren't worlds unto themselves;
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不只属于他们自己的农场,
18:05
farms that restore instead of deplete;
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它自我恢复,而不是消耗,
18:10
farms that farm extensively
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广义的农场
18:12
instead of just intensively;
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取代只是狭义的,
18:14
farmers that are not just producers,
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农民不再只是生产者,
18:17
but experts in relationships.
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而是关系专家,
18:19
Because they're the ones
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因为他们
18:21
that are experts in flavor, too.
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同时也是口味上的专家。
18:24
And if I'm going to be really honest,
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而且如果要我说实话,
18:26
they're a better chef than I'll ever be.
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他们是比我更好的厨师。
18:29
You know, I'm okay with that,
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你们知道,我完全认同这样的事,
18:32
because if that's the future of good food, it's going to be delicious.
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因为如果未来的优质食品是这样的,它们肯定会是非常美味的。
18:35
Thank you.
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谢谢你们。
18:37
(Applause)
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(掌声)♫
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