The secret to living longer may be your social life | Susan Pinker

Prevodilac: Milenka Okuka Lektor: Mile Živković

Here's an intriguing fact.

Evo fascinantne činjenice.

In the developed world,

U razvijenom svetu,

everywhere, women live an average of six to eight years longer than men do.

svuda, žene žive u proseku šest do osam godina duže od muškaraca.

Six to eight years longer.

Šest do osam godina duže.

That's, like, a huge gap.

To je ogroman jaz.

In 2015, the "Lancet" published an article

Godine 2015, "Lanset" je objavio članak

showing that men in rich countries

koji je pokazao da muškarci u bogatim državama

are twice as likely to die as women are

imaju duplo veće šanse od žena da umru

at any age.

u bilo kom dobu.

But there is one place in the world

Međutim, postoji jedno mesto na svetu

where men live as long as women.

gde muškarci žive koliko i žene.

It's a remote, mountainous zone,

Radi se o udaljenoj, planinskoj oblasti,

a blue zone,

plavoj zoni,

where super longevity

gde je izuzetna dugovečnost

is common to both sexes.

uobičajena kod oba roda.

This is the blue zone in Sardinia,

Ovo je plava zona u Sardiniji,

an Italian island in the Mediterranean,

italijanskom ostrvu u Mediteranu,

between Corsica and Tunisia,

između Korzike i Tunisa,

where there are six times as many centenarians

gde ima šest puta više stogodišnjaka

as on the Italian mainland,

nego u ostatku Italije,

less than 200 miles away.

manje od 320 kilometra dalje.

There are 10 times as many centenarians

Tamo ima deset puta više stogodišnjaka

as there are in North America.

nego u Severnoj Americi.

It's the only place where men live as long as women.

To je jedino mesto gde muškarci žive koliko i žene.

But why?

Ali zašto?

My curiosity was piqued.

Znatiželja me je golicala.

I decided to research the science and the habits of the place,

Odlučila sam da istražim znamenitosti i navike tog mesta,

and I started with the genetic profile.

a započela sam sa genetskim profilom.

I discovered soon enough

Ubrzo sam otkrila

that genes account for just 25 percent of their longevity.

da su geni svega 25 procenata zaslužni za njihovu dugovečnost.

The other 75 percent is lifestyle.

Ostalih 75 procenata je način života.

So what does it take to live to 100 or beyond?

Dakle, šta je potrebno da se živi 100 i više godina?

What are they doing right?

Šta oni rade kako treba?

What you're looking at is an aerial view of Villagrande.

Gledate Vilagrande iz ptičje perspektive.

It's a village at the epicenter of the blue zone

Radi se o selu u epicentru plave zone

where I went to investigate this,

kuda sam išla da istražujem o ovome

and as you can see, architectural beauty is not its main virtue,

i, kao što vidite, arhitektonska lepota im nije glavna vrlina,

density is:

gustina jeste:

tightly spaced houses,

tesni razmaci između kuća,

interwoven alleys and streets.

isprepletene uličice i ulice.

It means that the villagers' lives constantly intersect.

To znači da se životi seljana stalno ukrštaju.

And as I walked through the village,

I dok sam šetala kroz selo

I could feel hundreds of pairs of eyes watching me

mogla sam da osetim na stotine pari očiju kako me posmatraju

from behind doorways and curtains,

iza ulaznih vrata i prozora,

from behind shutters.

iza roletni.

Because like all ancient villages,

Jer kao i u drugim drevnim selima,

Villagrande couldn't have survived

selo Vilagrande ne bi preživelo

without this structure, without its walls, without its cathedral,

bez ove strukture, bez zidova, bez katedrale,

without its village square,

bez seoskog trga,

because defense and social cohesion defined its design.

zato što su odbrana i društvena kohezija definisale njegov dizajn.

Urban priorities changed as we moved towards the industrial revolution

Gradski prioriteti su se promenili dok smo se približavali industrijskoj revoluciji

because infectious disease became the risk of the day.

jer su zarazne bolesti postale svakodnevni rizik.

But what about now?

Međutim, kako je danas?

Now, social isolation is the public health risk of our time.

Sada, društvena izolacija je rizik za javno zdravlje našeg doba.

Now, a third of the population says

Sad, trećina populacije kaže

they have two or fewer people to lean on.

da imaju dve ili manje osoba na koje mogu da se oslone.

But let's go to Villagrande now as a contrast

Međutim, pođimo sada nasuprot tome u Vilagrande

to meet some centenarians.

da upoznamo neke stogodišnjake.

Meet Giuseppe Murinu. He's 102, a supercentenarian

Upoznajte Đuzepea Murinu. Ima 102 godine, superstogodišnjak

and a lifelong resident of the village of Villagrande.

i celoživotni stanovnik sela Vilagrande.

He was a gregarious man.

Bio je društven čovek.

He loved to recount stories

Voleo je da prepričava priče,

such as how he lived like a bird

poput one kako je živeo kao ptica

from what he could find on the forest floor

od onoga što je mogao da nađe na šumskom tlu

during not one but two world wars,

tokom, ne jednog, već dva svetska rata,

how he and his wife, who also lived past 100,

kako su on i njegova supruga, koja je takođe živela preko 100 godina,

raised six children in a small, homey kitchen

podigli šestoro dece u maloj, udobnoj kuhinji

where I interviewed him.

gde sam ga intervjuisala.

Here he is with his sons Angelo and Domenico,

Ovde je sa sinovima, Anđelom i Domenikom,

both in their 70s and looking after their father,

obojica su u 70-im i paze svog oca,

and who were quite frankly very suspicious of me and my daughter

i koji su, iskreno, bili veoma sumnjičavi prema meni i mojoj kćerki,

who came along with me on this research trip,

koja je pošla sa mnom na ovo istraživačko putovanje,

because the flip side of social cohesion

jer je druga strana društvene kohezije

is a wariness of strangers and outsiders.

podozrivost prema strancima i izvanjcima.

But Giuseppe, he wasn't suspicious at all.

Međutim, Đuzepe uopšte nije bio sumnjičav.

He was a happy-go-lucky guy,

Bio je bezbrižan čovek,

very outgoing with a positive outlook.

veoma društven i sa pozitivnim stavom.

And I wondered: so is that what it takes to live to be 100 or beyond,

Zapitala sam se: dakle to je potrebno da se živi 100 i više godina,

thinking positively?

pozitivno razmišljanje?

Actually, no.

Zapravo nije.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Meet Giovanni Corrias. He's 101,

Upoznajte Đovanija Korijasa. Ima 101 godinu,

the grumpiest person I have ever met.

najćudljivija je osoba koju sam ikad upoznala.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

And he put a lie to the notion

Pokazao je da je lažna pretpostavka

that you have to be positive to live a long life.

da morate da budete pozitivni da biste bili dugovečni.

And there is evidence for this.

A imamo dokaze za to.

When I asked him why he lived so long,

Kada sam ga upitala zašto je toliko dugo živ,

he kind of looked at me under hooded eyelids and he growled,

nekako me je pogledao, spuštenih obrva i zamumlao:

"Nobody has to know my secrets."

"Niko ne mora da zna moje tajne."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

But despite being a sourpuss,

No, uprkos njegovoj zlovolji,

the niece who lived with him and looked after him

nećaka koja je živela s njim i pazila ga,

called him "Il Tesoro," "my treasure."

nazivala ga je "Il Tesoro", "moje blago".

And she respected him and loved him,

I poštovala ga je i volela,

and she told me, when I questioned this obvious loss of her freedom,

a rekla mi je, kada sam propitivala o ovom očiglednom gubitku njene slobode:

"You just don't understand, do you?

"Prosto ne razumete, zar ne?

Looking after this man is a pleasure.

Paženje ovog čoveka je zadovoljstvo.

It's a huge privilege for me.

Meni je to izuzetna privilegija.

This is my heritage."

Ovo je moje nasleđe."

And indeed, wherever I went to interview these centenarians,

I, zaista, kuda god bih pošla da intervjuišem ove stogodišnjake,

I found a kitchen party.

zatekla bih kuhinjsku zabavu.

Here's Giovanni with his two nieces,

Ovo je Đovani sa njegove dve nećake,

Maria above him

Marija iznad njega,

and beside him his great-niece Sara,

a pored njega je pranećaka Sara,

who came when I was there to bring fresh fruits and vegetables.

koja je navratila, dok sam bila tamo, da donese sveže voće i povrće.

And I quickly discovered by being there

I ubrzo sam otkrila dok sam bila tamo

that in the blue zone, as people age,

da u plavoj zoni, kako ljudi stare,

and indeed across their lifespans,

i zaista tokom njihovog životnog veka,

they're always surrounded by extended family, by friends,

uvek su okruženi širom porodicom, prijateljima,

by neighbors, the priest, the barkeeper, the grocer.

komšijama, sveštenikom, kafedžijom, piljarom.

People are always there or dropping by.

Ljudi su uvek tu ili navraćaju.

They are never left to live solitary lives.

Nikada nisu prepušteni da žive usamljeno.

This is unlike the rest of the developed world,

Tako nije u ostatku razvijenog sveta,

where as George Burns quipped,

gde, kako se Džordž Barns šalio:

"Happiness is having a large, loving, caring family in another city."

"Sreća je imati veliku, punu ljubavi, brižnu porodicu u drugom gradu."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Now, so far we've only met men,

Sad, do sad smo samo upoznali muškarce,

long-living men, but I met women too,

dugovečne muškarce, ali upoznala sam i žene,

and here you see Zia Teresa.

a ovde vidite Ziju Terezu.

She, at over 100, taught me how to make the local specialty,

Ona, sa preko 100 godina, me je naučila kako da spremam lokalni specijalitet,

which is called culurgiones,

koji nazivaju kulurđonima,

which are these large pasta pockets

a to su ovi veliki džepovi od testenine,

like ravioli about this size,

poput raviola, otprilike ove veličine,

this size,

ove veličine,

and they're filled with high-fat ricotta and mint

a punjeni su punomasnom rikotom i mentom

and drenched in tomato sauce.

i natopljeni su u sosu od paradajza.

And she showed me how to make just the right crimp

Naučila me je kako da napravim odgovarajući nabor,

so they wouldn't open,

kako se ne bi otvarale,

and she makes them with her daughters every Sunday

a ona ih sprema svake nedelje sa njenim kćerkama

and distributes them by the dozens to neighbors and friends.

i poklanja na desetine komšijama i prijateljima.

And that's when I discovered a low-fat, gluten-free diet

I tako sam otkrila da niskomasna, bezglutenska ishrana

is not what it takes to live to 100 in the blue zone.

nije to što je potrebno da se doživi 100 godina u plavoj zoni.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Now, these centenarians' stories along with the science that underpins them

Sad, priče ovih stogodišnjaka, zajedno sa naukom koja ih potkrepljuje,

prompted me to ask myself some questions too,

podstakli su me da se i sama zapitam neka pitanja,

such as, when am I going to die and how can I put that day off?

poput: kada ću da umrem, i kako mogu to da odložim?

And as you will see, the answer is not what we expect.

I, kao što ćete da vidite, odgovor nije onaj koji očekujemo.

Julianne Holt-Lunstad is a researcher at Brigham Young University

Džulijen Holt-Lanstad je istraživačica na Univerzitetu Birgam Jang

and she addressed this very question

i ona se bavila baš ovim pitanjem

in a series of studies

u nizu istraživanja

of tens of thousands of middle aged people

o desetinama hiljada sredovečnih ljudi,

much like this audience here.

nalik ovoj publici ovde.

And she looked at every aspect of their lifestyle:

I posmatrala je svaki aspekt njihovog načina života:

their diet, their exercise,

njihovu ishranu, vežbanje,

their marital status,

bračni status,

how often they went to the doctor,

koliko često odlaze kod doktora,

whether they smoked or drank, etc.

da li puše ili piju isl.

She recorded all of this

Sve ovo je zabeležila,

and then she and her colleagues sat tight and waited for seven years

a onda su ona i njene kolege mirno sedeli i čekali sedam godina

to see who would still be breathing.

da vide ko će i dalje biti živ.

And of the people left standing,

A kod onih koji su preživeli,

what reduced their chances of dying the most?

šta im je najviše umanjilo šanse od umiranja?

That was her question.

To je bilo njeno pitanje.

So let's now look at her data in summary,

Dakle, pogledajmo sada sažeto njene podatke,

going from the least powerful predictor to the strongest.

krećući od najslabijeg predskazivača do najjačeg.

OK?

U redu?

So clean air, which is great,

Dakle, čist vazduh, što je sjajno,

it doesn't predict how long you will live.

ne predskazuje koliko dugo ćete da živite.

Whether you have your hypertension treated

Ukoliko primate terapiju za visok krvni pritisak,

is good.

to je dobro.

Still not a strong predictor.

I dalje nije snažan predskazatelj.

Whether you're lean or overweight, you can stop feeling guilty about this,

Da li ste vitki ili gojazni, možete prestati da osećate krivicu,

because it's only in third place.

jer je tek na trećem mestu.

How much exercise you get is next,

Sledi to koliko vežbate,

still only a moderate predictor.

i dalje umeren predskazatelj.

Whether you've had a cardiac event and you're in rehab and exercising,

Da li ste imali srčani problem i na rehabilitaciji ste i vežbate,

getting higher now.

penjemo se više.

Whether you've had a flu vaccine.

Da li ste vakcinisani protiv gripa.

Did anybody here know

Da li neko ovde zna

that having a flu vaccine protects you more than doing exercise?

da vas vakcina protiv gripa više štiti od fizičkih vežbi?

Whether you were drinking and quit,

Da li ste pili i prestali

or whether you're a moderate drinker,

ili ste umereni alkoholičar,

whether you don't smoke, or if you did, whether you quit,

da li ne pušite ili, ako ste pušili, da li ste prestali,

and getting towards the top predictors

a približavajući se najvećim predskazateljima

are two features of your social life.

dolazimo do dve crte vašeg društvenog života.

First, your close relationships.

Prva su vaše bliske veze.

These are the people that you can call on for a loan

To su ljudi od kojih možete da zatražite zajam,

if you need money suddenly,

ako vam je iznenada potreban novac,

who will call the doctor if you're not feeling well

koji će da pozovu doktora, ako se ne osećate dobro

or who will take you to the hospital,

ili koji će vas povesti u bolnicu

or who will sit with you if you're having an existential crisis,

ili koji će da sede uz vas, ako imate egzistencijalnu krizu,

if you're in despair.

ako ste u očaju.

Those people, that little clutch of people

Ti ljudi, ta šačica ljudi

are a strong predictor, if you have them, of how long you'll live.

su snažan predskazatelj, ako ih imate, toga koliko dugo ćete da živite.

And then something that surprised me,

A potom nešto što me je iznenadilo,

something that's called social integration.

nešto što se naziva društvenom integracijom.

This means how much you interact with people

To znači koliko interagujete s ljudima

as you move through your day.

u toku vašeg dana.

How many people do you talk to?

S koliko ljudi razgovarate?

And these mean both your weak and your strong bonds,

A ovo podrazumeva i vaše slabe i vaše čvrste veze,

so not just the people you're really close to,

dakle, ne samo ljude koji su vam zaista bliski,

who mean a lot to you,

koji vam mnogo znače,

but, like, do you talk to the guy who every day makes you your coffee?

već i da li razgovarate sa čovekom koji vam svakog dana sprema kafu?

Do you talk to the postman?

Da li razgovarate sa poštarom?

Do you talk to the woman who walks by your house every day with her dog?

Da li razgovarate sa ženom koja svakog dana šeta psa pored vaše kuće?

Do you play bridge or poker, have a book club?

Da li igrate bridž ili poker, imate čitalački klub?

Those interactions are one of the strongest predictors

Ove interakcije su neki od najsnažnijih predskazatelja

of how long you'll live.

toga koliko ćete da živite.

Now, this leads me to the next question:

Sad, ovo me dovodi do sledećeg pitanja:

if we now spend more time online than on any other activity,

ako trenutno provodimo više vremena na internetu nego na bilo kojoj aktivnosti,

including sleeping,

uključujući i spavanje,

we're now up to 11 hours a day,

trenutno stižemo do 11 sati dnevno,

one hour more than last year, by the way,

sat duže nego prošle godine, usput,

does it make a difference?

da li je to značajno?

Why distinguish between interacting in person

U čemu je razlika između interakcije licem u lice

and interacting via social media?

i interakcije putem društvenih mreža?

Is it the same thing as being there

Da li je to isto kao da ste tu,

if you're in contact constantly with your kids through text, for example?

ako ste stalno u kontaktu sa decom preko poruka, na primer?

Well, the short answer to the question is no,

Pa, kratak odgovor na pitanje je: ne,

it's not the same thing.

nije isto.

Face-to-face contact releases a whole cascade of neurotransmitters,

Kontakt licem u lice pokreće čitavu bujicu neurotransmitera

and like a vaccine, they protect you now in the present

i, poput vakcine, štite vas u ovom trenutku u sadašnjosti

and well into the future.

i daleko u budućnosti.

So simply making eye contact with somebody,

Dakle, prost kontakt očima s nekim,

shaking hands, giving somebody a high-five

rukovanje, bacanje petaka

is enough to release oxytocin,

je dovoljno da se oslobodi oksitocin,

which increases your level of trust

koji kod vas povećava nivo poverenja

and it lowers your cortisol levels.

i snižava vrednosti kortizola.

So it lowers your stress.

Dakle, snižava stres kod vas.

And dopamine is generated, which gives us a little high

A proizvodi se dopamin, koji nam pruža nešto elana

and it kills pain.

i uništava bol.

It's like a naturally produced morphine.

Poput prirodno proizvedenog morfijuma.

Now, all of this passes under our conscious radar,

Sad, sve se ovo dešava bez našeg svesnog znanja,

which is why we conflate online activity with the real thing.

zbog čega mešamo aktivnost na internetu sa stvarnom.

But we do have evidence now, fresh evidence,

Ali trenutno imamo dokaze, sveže dokaze,

that there is a difference.

da postoji razlika.

So let's look at some of the neuroscience.

Dakle, pogledajmo malo neuronauku.

Elizabeth Redcay, a neuroscientist at the University of Maryland,

Elizabet Redkej, neuronaučnica sa Univerziteta Merilend,

tried to map the difference

pokušala je da odredi razliku

between what goes on in our brains when we interact in person

između toga šta se dešava u vašim mozgovima kad interagujemo uživo,

versus when we're watching something that's static.

nasuprot tome kad posmatramo nešto što je statično.

And what she did was she compared the brain function

A ona je upoređivala rad mozga

of two groups of people,

dve grupe ljudi,

those interacting live with her

onih koji su s njom interagovali uživo,

or with one of her research associates

ili s jednim od njenih asistenata istraživača,

in a dynamic conversation,

u dinamičnom razgovoru,

and she compared that to the brain activity of people

i to je uporedila sa moždanom aktivnošću ljudi

who were watching her talk about the same subject

koji su je posmatrali kako govori o istoj temi,

but in a canned video, like on YouTube.

ali na video snimku, nalik onim na Jutjubu.

And by the way, if you want to know

I, usput, ako želite da znate

how she fit two people in an MRI scanner at the same time,

kako je smestila dvoje ljudi istovremeno u MR skener,

talk to me later.

pitajte me kasnije.

So what's the difference?

Dakle, u čemu je razlika?

This is your brain on real social interaction.

Ovo je vaš mozak tokom stvarne društevene interakcije.

What you're seeing is the difference in brain activity

Gledate razliku u moždanoj aktivnosti

between interacting in person and taking in static content.

između žive interakcije i primanja statičnog sadržaja.

In orange, you see the brain areas that are associated with attention,

Narandžasto su obojene oblasti mozga koje su u vezi sa pažnjom,

social intelligence --

društvenom inteligencijom -

that means anticipating what somebody else is thinking

to znači predosećanje o čemu neko drugi razmišlja,

and feeling and planning --

saosećanje i planiranje -

and emotional reward.

i emotivna nagrada.

And these areas become much more engaged

A ove oblasti postaju daleko angažovanije

when we're interacting with a live partner.

kada interagujemo s partnerom uživo.

Now, these richer brain signatures

Sad, ovi bogatiji moždani potpisi

might be why recruiters from Fortune 500 companies

su možda razlog zašto su agenti iz Forčun 500 firmi,

evaluating candidates

koji su ocenjivali kandidate,

thought that the candidates were smarter

smatrali da su kandidati pametniji

when they heard their voices

kada su im čuli glas,

compared to when they just read their pitches in a text, for example,

nasutprot mišljenju formiranom na osnovu pisanih preporuka, na primer,

or an email or a letter.

ili imejla ili pisma.

Now, our voices and body language convey a rich signal.

Sad, naši glasovi i govor tela prenose obilje signala.

It shows that we're thinking, feeling,

Pokazuju da smo misleća, osećajuća,

sentient human beings

svesna ljudska bića

who are much more than an algorithm.

koja su mnogo više od algoritma.

Now, this research by Nicholas Epley

Sad, ovo istraživanje od Nikolasa Eplija

at the University of Chicago Business School

sa Poslovne škole Univerziteta Čikago

is quite amazing because it tells us a simple thing.

je prilično zadivljujuće jer nam saopštava nešto prosto.

If somebody hears your voice,

Ako vam neko čuje glas,

they think you're smarter.

smatraće vas pametnijim.

I mean, that's quite a simple thing.

Mislim, to je nešto prilično prosto.

Now, to return to the beginning,

Sad, vratimo se na početak:

why do women live longer than men?

zašto žene žive duže od muškaraca?

And one major reason is that women are more likely

A jedan od bitnijih razloga je da su žene sklonije

to prioritize and groom their face-to-face relationships

da daju prednost i neguju svoje odnose licem u lice

over their lifespans.

tokom svog životnog veka.

Fresh evidence shows

Noviji dokazi ukazuju

that these in-person friendships

da ova prijateljstva licem u lice

create a biological force field against disease and decline.

stvaraju biološko polje sile protiv bolesti i propadanja.

And it's not just true of humans

A nije to jedino tačno za ljude,

but their primate relations, our primate relations as well.

već i za njihove rođake primate, za naše rođake primate, takođe.

Anthropologist Joan Silk's work shows that female baboons

Rad Antropološkinje Džoan Silk pokazuje da ženke babuna

who have a core of female friends

koje imaju jezgro ženskih prijateljstava

show lower levels of stress via their cortisol levels,

pokazuju, preko nivoa kortizola, niže nivoe stresa

they live longer and they have more surviving offspring.

žive duže i imaju više preživelih potomaka.

At least three stable relationships.

Bar tri stabilne veze.

That was the magic number.

To je čarobni broj.

Think about it.

Razmislite o tome.

I hope you guys have three.

Nadam se da imate tri.

The power of such face-to-face contact

Moć takvog kontakta licem u lice

is really why there are the lowest rates of dementia

je istinski razlog zašto su najniže stope demencije

among people who are socially engaged.

među ljudima koji su društveno angažovani.

It's why women who have breast cancer

To je razlog zašto žene sa rakom dojke

are four times more likely to survive their disease than loners are.

imaju četiri puta veće šanse da prežive od usamljenih žena.

Why men who've had a stroke who meet regularly to play poker

Zašto muškarci koji su imali moždani udar, a koji se redovno sastaju da igraju poker

or to have coffee

ili piju kafu

or to play old-timer's hockey --

ili igraju seniorski hokej -

I'm Canadian, after all --

ja sam ipak Kanađanka -

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

are better protected by that social contact

su bolje zaštićeni tim društvenim kontaktom

than they are by medication.

nego lekovima.

Why men who've had a stroke who meet regularly --

Zašto muškarci koji su imali moždani udar a koji se redovno sastaju -

this is something very powerful they can do.

to je veoma moćna aktivnost.

This face-to-face contact provides stunning benefits,

Ovaj kontakt licem u lice pruža zapanjujuće prednosti,

yet now almost a quarter of the population says they have no one to talk to.

pa ipak, skoro četvrtina populacije izjavljuje da nemaju s kim da pričaju.

We can do something about this.

Možemo da uradimo nešto povodom toga.

Like Sardinian villagers,

Poput sardinijskih seljana,

it's a biological imperative to know we belong,

biološki je imperativ znati da pripadamo,

and not just the women among us.

i to ne samo žene među nama.

Building in-person interaction into our cities, into our workplaces,

Ugradnjom interakcije licem u lice u naše gradove, u naše radne prostore,

into our agendas

u naš dnevni red

bolsters the immune system,

ćemo da ojačamo imunitet,

sends feel-good hormones surging through the bloodstream and brain

hormoni dobrog raspoloženja će da prokuljaju kroz naš krvotok i mozak

and helps us live longer.

i pomoći će nam da živimo duže.

I call this building your village,

Ovo nazivam izgradnjom ličnog sela,

and building it and sustaining it is a matter of life and death.

a njegova izgradnja i održavanje su pitanja života i smrti.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Helen Walters: Susan, come back. I have a question for you.

Helen Volters: Suzan, vrati se. Imam pitanje za tebe.

I'm wondering if there's a middle path.

Pitam se da li postoji srednji put.

So you talk about the neurotransmitters connecting when in face-to-face,

Dakle, govoriš o neurotransimterima koji se povezuju tokom suočavanja,

but what about digital technology?

no šta je sa digitalnom tehnologijom?

We've seen enormous improvements in digital technology

Videli smo ogroman napredak u digitalnoj tehnologiji,

like FaceTime, things like that.

poput Fejs tajma, i slično.

Does that work too?

Da li to deluje takođe?

I mean, I see my nephew.

Mislim, gledam mog nećaka.

He plays Minecraft and he's yelling at his friends.

Igra Majnkraft i viče na prijatelje.

It seems like he's connecting pretty well.

Čini se da je prilično dobro povezan.

Is that useful? Is that helpful?

Da li je to korisno? Da li to pomaže?

Susan Pinker: Some of the data are just emerging.

Suzan Pinker: Neki podaci se tek pojavljuju.

The data are so fresh that the digital revolution happened

Podaci su toliko sveži jer se digitalna revolucija desila,

and the health data trailed behind.

a zdravstveni podaci zaostaju.

So we're just learning,

Dakle, tek saznajemo,

but I would say there are some improvements

ali bih rekla da postoje neka poboljšanja

that we could make in the technology.

koja možemo da postignemo kod tehnologije.

For example, the camera on your laptop is at the top of the screen,

Na primer, kamera na vašem laptopu je na vrhu ekrana,

so for example, when you're looking into the screen,

pa, na primer, kada gledate u ekran,

you're not actually making eye contact.

zapravo ne održavate kontakt očima.

So something as simple as even just looking into the camera

Dakle, nešto prosto kao gledanje u kameru

can increase those neurotransmitters,

može da umnoži te neurotransmitere

or maybe changing the position of the camera.

ili, pak, menjanje mesta kamere.

So it's not identical, but I think we are getting closer with the technology.

Dakle, nije identično, ali mislim da smo sve bliži što se tiče tehnologije.

HW: Great. Thank you so much.

HV: Sjajno. Mnogo ti hvala.

SP: Thank you.

SP: Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)