How architecture helped music evolve | David Byrne

Prevodilac: Ivana Korom Lektor: Sandra Gojic

This is the venue

Ovo je mesto

where, as a young man,

na kom sam, kao mladić,

some of the music that I wrote was first performed.

po prvi put izveo muziku koju sam napisao.

It was, remarkably,

To je nesumnjivo bila

a pretty good sounding room.

prostorija sa prilično dobrim zvukom.

With all the uneven walls and all the crap everywhere,

Sa svim tim nejednakim zidovima i glupostima svuda,

it actually sounded pretty good.

zapravo je prilično dobro zvučalo.

This is a song that was recorded there.

Ovo je pesma koja je tamo snimljena.

(Music)

(muzika)

This is not Talking Heads,

Ovo nisu "Talking Heads"

in the picture anyway.

bar ne na slici.

(Music: "A Clean Break (Let's Work)" by Talking Heads)

(Muzika: "A Clean Break (Let's Work) od "Talking Heads")

So the nature of the room

Dakle priroda sobe

meant that words could be understood.

je omogućavala da se reči razumeju.

The lyrics of the songs could be pretty much understood.

Tekstovi pesama su prilično dobro mogli da se razumeju.

The sound system was kind of decent.

Zvučni sistem je bio donekle pristojan.

And there wasn't a lot of reverberation in the room.

Nije bilo mnogo odjeka u prostoriji.

So the rhythms

Tako da su i ritmovi

could be pretty intact too,

mogli biti prilično netaknuti,

pretty concise.

prilično koncizni.

Other places around the country had similar rooms.

Druga mesta širom zemlje imala su slične prostorije.

This is Tootsie's Orchid Lounge in Nashville.

Ovo je "Tootsie's Orchid Lounge" u Nešvilu.

The music was in some ways different,

Muzika je na neki način drugačija,

but in structure and form,

ali u strukturi i formi

very much the same.

prilično ista.

The clientele behavior was very much the same too.

Ponašanje posetilaca prilično je isto, takođe.

And so the bands at Tootsie's

Bendovi u "Tootsie's"

or at CBGB's

ili u "CBGB-u"

had to play loud enough --

morali su da sviraju dovoljno glasno -

the volume had to be loud enough to overcome

zvuk je trebalo da bude dovoljno glasan da nadjača

people falling down, shouting out

ljude koji padaju, viču

and doing whatever else they were doing.

i rade sve što su radili.

Since then, I've played other places

Od tada sam svirao na drugim

that are much nicer.

mestima koja su mnogo lepša.

I've played the Disney Hall here

Svirao sam ovde u "Dizni Holu"

and Carnegie Hall and places like that.

i u "Karnegi Holu" i takvim mestima.

And it's been very exciting.

Veoma je uzbudljivo.

But I also noticed that sometimes the music

Ali takođe sam primetio da muzika

that I had written,

koju sam napisao,

or was writing at the time,

ili koju sam pisao u to vreme,

didn't sound all that great

uopšte ne zvuči dobro

in some of those halls.

u nekim od tih sala.

We managed,

Išlo nam je,

but sometimes those halls didn't seem exactly suited

ali nekada te sale nisu bile baš pogodne

to the music I was making

za muziku koju sam stvarao

or had made.

ili stvorio.

So I asked myself:

Tako sam se upitao:

Do I write stuff

Da li pišem stvari

for specific rooms?

za određene prostore?

Do I have a place, a venue,

Da li mi je u glavi mesto

in mind when I write?

događaja, dok pišem?

Is that a kind of model for creativity?

Da li je to neki model za kreativnost?

Do we all make things with

Da li svi stvaramo imajući

a venue, a context, in mind?

mesto događaja, kontekst, u glavi?

Okay, Africa.

Ok, Afrika.

(Music: "Wenlenga" / Various artists)

(Muzika: "Wenlenga" / Različiti autori)

Most of the popular music that we know now

Većina popularne muzike koju danas znamo

has a big part of its roots in West Africa.

dobrim svojim delom ima korene u Zapadnoj Africi.

And the music there,

A muzika tamo,

I would say, the instruments,

rekao bih, ti instrumenti,

the intricate rhythms,

ti složeni ritmovi,

the way it's played, the setting, the context,

kako se svira, okruženje, kontekst,

it's all perfect. It all works perfect.

sve je savršeno. Sve funkcioniše savršeno.

The music works perfectly in that setting.

Muzika savršeno odgovara tom okruženju.

There's no big room

Nema velike prostorije

to create reverberation and confuse the rhythms.

da stvara odjekivanje i da se ritmovi pomešaju.

The instruments are loud enough

Instrumenti su dovoljno glasni

that they can be heard without amplification, etc., etc.

da se čuju i bez pojačavanja, itd itd.

It's no accident.

To nije slučajno.

It's perfect for that particular context.

Savršeno je za dati kontekst.

And it would be a mess

A bio bi haos

in a context like this. This is a gothic cathedral.

u ovakvom kontekstu. Ovo je gotska katedrala.

(Music: "Spem In Alium" by Thomas Tallis)

(Muzika: "Spem In Alium", od Tomasa Talisa)

In a gothic cathedral, this kind of music is perfect.

Ovakva muzika je savršena u gotskoj katedrali.

It doesn't change key, the notes are long,

Ne menja se ključ. Note su duge.

there's almost no rhythm whatsoever,

Skoro uopšte nema ritma.

and the room flatters the music.

Prostorija laska muzici.

It actually improves it.

Ustvari je poboljšava.

This is the room that Bach

Za ovu prostoriju je Bah

wrote some of his music for. This is the organ.

napisao neku svoju muziku. Ovo je orgulja.

It's not as big as a gothic cathedral,

Nije tako velika kao gotska katedrala

so he can write things that are a little bit more intricate.

pa je mogao da piše malo složenije stvari.

He can, very innovatively,

On može, veoma inovativno,

actually change keys

da promeni ključ

without risking huge dissonances.

a da ne dođe do ogromne disonance.

(Music: "Fantasia On Jesu, Mein Freunde" by Johann S. Bach)

(Muzika: "Fantasia On Jesu, Mein Freunde", Johan S. Bah)

This is a little bit later.

Ovo je malo kasnije.

This is the kind of rooms that Mozart wrote in.

Ovo su prostorije u kakvim je Mocart pisao.

I think we're in like 1770, somewhere around there.

Mislim da smo sad u 1770., tu negde.

They're smaller, even less reverberant,

Manje su, ima još manje odjeka,

so he can write really frilly music

tako da može da piše veoma kitnjastu

that's very intricate -- and it works.

i složenu muziku - koja funkcioniše.

(Music: "Sonata in F," KV 13, by Wolfgang A. Mozart)

(Muzika: Sonata u F Duru", KV!13, Volfgang A. Mocart)

It fits the room perfectly.

Savršeno odgovara prostoriji.

This is La Scala.

Ovo je "La Scala."

It's around the same time,

Iz otprilike istog vremena.

I think it was built around 1776.

Mislim da je sagrađena oko 1776.

People in the audience in these opera houses, when they were built,

Kada su sagrađene, ljudi u publici su se u ovakvim

they used to yell out to one another.

operskim salama nadvikivali.

They used to eat, drink and yell out to people on the stage,

Jeli su, pili i vikali ljudima na sceni,

just like they do at CBGB's and places like that.

baš kao što rade u "CBGB-u" i takvim mestima.

If they liked an aria,

Ako bi im se dopala arija,

they would holler and suggest

vikali bi i predlagali

that it be done again as an encore,

da se izvede ponovo, u nastavku,

not at the end of the show, but immediately.

ne na kraju predstave, nego odmah.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

And well, that was an opera experience.

Pa, to je bilo iskustvo opere.

This is the opera house that Wagner built for himself.

Ovo je opera koju je Vagner izgradio za sebe.

And the size of the room is not that big.

Prostorija i nije toliko velika.

It's smaller than this.

Manja je od ove.

But Wagner made an innovation.

Ali, Vagner je uneo nešto novo.

He wanted a bigger band.

Želeo je veći orkestar.

He wanted a little more bombast,

Želeo je nešto bombastičnije.

so he increased the size of the orchestra pit

Tako je povećao prostor za orkestar

so he could get more low-end instruments in there.

da bi mogao da u njega ubaci više dubljih instrumenata.

(Music: "Lohengrin / Prelude to Act III" by Richard Wagner)

(Muzika: "Loengrin / Preludijum za treći čin", Rihard Vagner)

Okay.

Okej.

This is Carnegie Hall.

Ovo je "Karnegi Hol."

Obviously, this kind of thing became popular.

Očigledno je nešto ovako postalo popularno.

The halls got bigger. Carnegie Hall's fair-sized.

Sale su se povećale. "Karnegi Hol" je kao sajam.

It's larger than some of the other symphony halls.

Veća je od nekih drugih simfonijskih sala.

And they're a lot more reverberant

I mnogo je akustičnija

than La Scala.

od "La Scale".

Around the same,

Otprilike u isto vreme,

according to Alex Ross who writes for the New Yorker,

prema Aleksu Rosu koji piše za "New Yorker",

this kind of rule came into effect

ovo pravilo je stupilo na snagu,

that audiences had to be quiet --

publika je morala da bude tiha,

no more eating, drinking and yelling at the stage,

nema više jela, pića i vikanja na scenu,

or gossiping with one another

ili međusobnog tračarenja

during the show.

dok traje koncert.

They had to be very quiet.

Morali su da budu veoma tihi.

So those two things combined meant that

Dakle te dve stvari u kombinaciji značile su

a different kind of music

da je drugačija muzika

worked best in these kind of halls.

najbolje funkcionisala u ovakvim salama.

It meant that there could be extreme dynamics,

To je značilo da može biti užasno dinamično,

which there weren't in some of these

što nije postojalo u nekim od

other kinds of music.

ovih ranijih vrsta muzike.

Quiet parts could be heard

Mogli su se čuti tiši delovi

that would have been drowned out

koji bi bili ugušeni

by all the gossiping and shouting.

svim tračarenjem i vikanjem.

But because of the reverberation

Ali zbog akustike u

in those rooms like Carnegie Hall,

tim prostorijama kao što je "Karnegi Hol",

the music had to be maybe a little less rhythmic

muzika je morala možda da bude manje ritmična

and a little more textural.

i sa više tekstura.

(Music: "Symphony No. 8 in E Flat Major" by Gustav Mahler)

(Muzika: Simfonija br 8 u Es Duru", Gustav Maler)

This is Mahler.

Ovo je Maler.

It looks like Bob Dylan, but it's Mahler.

Izgleda kao Bob Dilan, ali je Maler.

That was Bob's last record, yeah.

To je Bobova poslednja ploča, da.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

Popular music, coming along at the same time.

Popularna muzika, stiže u isto vreme.

This is a jazz band.

Ovo je džez orkestar.

According to Scott Joplin, the bands were playing

Prema Skotu Džoplinu, orkestri su svirali

on riverboats and clubs.

na rečnim brodovima i u klubovima.

Again, it's noisy. They're playing for dancers.

Opet, bučno je. Sviraju za plesače.

There's certain sections of the song -- the songs had different sections

Postoje određeni delovi pesama - pesme su imale određene delove

that the dancers really liked.

koji su se mnogo dopadali igračima.

And they'd say, "Play that part again."

I oni bi rekli, "Sviraj ponovo taj deo".

Well, there's only so many times

Pa, koliko samo puta

you can play the same section of a song over and over again for the dancers.

možete da odsvirate isti deo iznova i iznova za igrače.

So the bands started to improvise new melodies.

Tako su bendovi počeli da improvizuju nove melodije.

And a new form of music was born.

I rođen je novi muzički oblik.

(Music: "Royal Garden Blues" by W.C. Handy / Ethel Waters)

(Muzika: "Royal Garden Blues", W.C. Handy/ Ethel Waters)

These are played mainly in small rooms.

Ove se uglavnom sviraju u malim prostorijama.

People are dancing, shouting and drinking.

Ljudi igraju, viču i piju.

So the music has to be loud enough

Znači da muzika mora da bude dovoljno glasna

to be heard above that.

da nadjača sve to.

Same thing goes true for -- that's the beginning of the century --

Ista stvar važi za - to je na početku veka -

for the whole of 20th-century popular music,

za svu popularnu muziku dvadesetog veka,

whether it's rock or Latin music or whatever.

bilo da je u pitanju rok, latino ili šta god.

[Live music] doesn't really change that much.

Ne menja se mnogo.

It changes about a third of the way into the 20th century,

Menja se otprilike za trećinu u dvadesetom veku,

when this became

kada je ovo postalo

one of the primary venues for music.

jedno od glavnih mesta događaja za muziku.

And this was one way

Ovo je jedan od načina

that the music got there.

na koji je muzika dospela tamo.

Microphones enabled singers, in particular,

Mikrofoni su omogućili pevačima, naročito,

and musicians and composers,

i muzičarima i kompozitorima

to completely change the kind of music

da potpuno promene vrstu muzike

that they were writing.

koju su komponovali.

So far, a lot of the stuff that was on the radio was live music,

Do tada, mnogo muzike na radiju je bilo uživo,

but singers, like Frank Sinatra,

ali pevači kao Frenk Sinatra

could use the mic

su mogli da koriste mikrofon

and do things

i da rade stvari

that they could never do without a microphone.

koje nikada ne bi mogli bez mikrofona.

Other singers after him

Drugi pevači posle njega

went even further.

su otišli još dalje.

(Music: "My Funny Valentine" by Chet Baker)

(Muzika: "My Funny Valentine", Čet Bejker)

This is Chet Baker.

Ovo je Čet Bejker.

And this kind of thing

I ovakva stvar bi

would have been impossible without a microphone.

bila nemoguća bez mikrofona.

It would have been impossible without recorded music as well.

Takođe bi bila nemoguća bez snimljene muzike.

And he's singing right into your ear.

I peva vam direktno u uvo.

He's whispering into your ears.

Šapuće vam na uvo.

The effect is just electric.

Efekat je prosto električan.

It's like the guy is sitting next to you,

Kao da lik sedi pored vas

whispering who knows what into your ear.

i šapuće vam ko zna šta na uvo.

So at this point, music diverged.

Dakle do tada se muzika razdelila.

There's live music,

Postoji živa muzika

and there's recorded music.

i snimljena muzika.

And they no longer have to be exactly the same.

I one više ne moraju da budu potpuno iste.

Now there's venues like this, a discotheque,

Postoje i mesta kao ova, diskoteke,

and there's jukeboxes in bars,

i postoje džuboksovi u barovima

where you don't even need to have a band.

gde vam orkestar čak nije ni potreban.

There doesn't need to be any

Uopšte nije neophodno

live performing musicians whatsoever,

da postoje muzičari koji sviraju uživo.

and the sound systems are good.

A zvučni uređaji su dobri.

People began to make music

Ljudi su počeli da prave muziku

specifically for discos

posebno za diskoteke

and for those sound systems.

i za te zvučne sisteme.

And, as with jazz,

I kao i u džezu,

the dancers liked certain sections

plesačima su se neki delovi

more than they did others.

dopadali više nego drugi.

So the early hip-hop guys would loop certain sections.

Tako bi rani hip-hop momci ponavljali određene sekvence.

(Music: "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang)

(Muzika: "Rapper's Delight", The Sugarhill Gang)

The MC would improvise lyrics

MC (master of ceremony) bi improvizovao tekst

in the same way that the jazz players would improvise melodies.

na isti način na koji su džez muzičari improvizovali melodije.

And another new form of music was born.

I jedna nova forma muzike je rođena.

Live performance, when it was incredibly successful,

Živi nastupi, kada su imali najviše uspeha,

ended up in what is probably, acoustically,

završili su na mestima koja su verovatno,

the worst sounding venues on the planet:

akustički, najgora mesta na svetu,

sports stadiums,

sportski stadioni,

basketball arenas and hockey arenas.

košarkaške i hokejaške arene.

Musicians who ended up there did the best they could.

Muzičari koji su tamo svirali davali su sve od sebe.

They wrote what is now called arena rock,

Komponovali su ono što se sada zove arena rok,

which is medium-speed ballads.

a to su balade srednje brzine.

(Music: "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" by U2)

(Muzika: "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", U2)

They did the best they could

Dali su sve od sebe,

given that this is what they're writing for.

s obzirom da su pisali za ova mesta.

The tempos are medium. It sounds big.

Tempo je srednji. Zvuči ogromno.

It's more a social situation

To je više socijalna

than a musical situation.

nego muzička situacija.

And in some ways, the music

I u nekim slučajevima, muzika

that they're writing for this place

koju su komponovali za ovo mesto

works perfectly.

zvuči savršeno.

So there's more new venues.

Evo još nekih novih mesta.

One of the new ones is the automobile.

Jedno od njih je automobil.

I grew up with a radio in a car.

Odrastao sam uz radio u kolima.

But now that's evolved into something else.

Ali to se sad razvilo u sasvim nešto drugo.

The car is a whole venue.

Sam auto je mesto događaja.

(Music: "Who U Wit" by Lil' Jon & the East Side Boyz)

(Muzika: "Who U Wit", Lil' John & the East Side Boyz)

The music that, I would say, is written

Muzika koja je, rekao bih, pisana

for automobile sound systems

za automobilske zvučne sisteme,

works perfectly on it.

savršeno na njima zvuči.

It might not be what you want to listen to at home,

To možda nije ono što biste slušali kod kuće,

but it works great in the car --

ali savršeno je u kolima -

has a huge frequency spectrum,

ima veliki spektar frekvencije,

you know, big bass and high-end

znate, dobre basove i visoke,

and the voice kind of stuck in the middle.

a glas je nekako uglavljen u sredini.

Automobile music, you can share with your friends.

Muziku za auto možete deliti sa prijateljima.

There's one other kind of new venue,

Postoji još jedno novo mesto,

the private MP3 player.

privatni MP3 uređaj.

Presumably, this is just for Christian music.

Pretpostavljam da je ovaj samo za hrišćansku muziku.

(Laughter)

(smeh)

And in some ways it's like Carnegie Hall,

I na neki način je kao "Karnegi Hol",

or when the audience had to hush up,

ii kad je publika morala da umukne,

because you can now hear every single detail.

jer sada možete čuti svaki i najmanji detalj.

In other ways, it's more like the West African music

Na drugi način, više je kao zapadnoafrička muzika,

because if the music in an MP3 player gets too quiet,

jer ako muzika u MP3 uređaju postane suviše tiha,

you turn it up, and the next minute,

pojačate je i u sledećem momentu

your ears are blasted out by a louder passage.

uši vam probija glasnija deonica.

So that doesn't really work.

Dakle to baš i ne funkcioniše.

I think pop music, mainly,

Mislim da se pop muzika, uglavnom,

it's written today,

koja se piše danas,

to some extent, is written for these kind of players,

donekle piše za ovakve uređaje,

for this kind of personal experience

za ovakvo lično iskustvo

where you can hear extreme detail,

gde možete da čujete ekstremne detalje,

but the dynamic doesn't change that much.

ali dinamika se ne menja mnogo.

So I asked myself:

Tako sam se zapitao:

Okay, is this

Ok, da li je ovo

a model for creation,

model kreacije,

this adaptation that we do?

ovo prilagođavanje koje činimo?

And does it happen anywhere else?

I da li se to još negde događa?

Well, according to David Attenborough and some other people,

Pa, Dejvid Atenborou i neki drugi kažu

birds do it too --

da i ptice tako rade.

that the birds in the canopy,

Zov onih ptica u krošnjama,

where the foliage is dense,

gde je lišće najgušće,

their calls tend to be

mora da bude

high-pitched, short and repetitive.

visok, kratak i da se ponavlja.

And the birds on the floor

A ptice na nižim nivoima

tend to have lower pitched calls,

imaju niži zov,

so that they don't get distorted

da se ne bi izmenio

when they bounce off the forest floor.

kada odskaču po šumskom tlu.

And birds like this Savannah sparrow,

A ptice kao što je ovaj vrabac iz Savane

they tend to have a buzzing

proizvode zvuk

(Sound clip: Savannah sparrow song)

(Zvučni insert: pesma vrapca iz Savane)

type call.

nalik zujanju.

And it turns out that

Ispostavlja se da

a sound like this

je zvuk kao ovaj

is the most energy efficient and practical way

najpraktičniji i najmanje energetski zahtevan

to transmit their call

za prenošenje zova

across the fields and savannahs.

preko polja i savana.

Other birds, like this tanager,

Druge ptice, kao tangare,

have adapted within the same species.

su se prilagodile unutar svoje vrste.

The tananger on the East Coast of the United States,

Tangare na istočnoj obali Sjedinjenih Država,

where the forests are a little denser,

gde su šume nešto gušće,

has one kind of call,

imaju jednu vrstu zova,

and the tananger on the other side, on the west

a tangare na drugoj strani, na zapadu,

(Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song)

(Zvuk: pesma crvene tangare)

has a different kind of call.

imaju drugačiju vrstu zova.

(Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song)

(Zvuk: pesma crvene tangare)

So birds do it too.

Dakle i ptice to rade.

And I thought:

I onda sam pomislio:

Well, if this is a model for creation,

Pa, ako je ovo model kreacije,

if we make music,

ako pravimo muziku

primarily the form at least,

doduše prvenstveno njen oblik,

to fit these contexts,

da se uklopi u ove kontekste,

and if we make art to fit gallery walls or museum walls,

i ako pravimo umetnost da se uklopi na galerijske i muzejske zidove,

and if we write software to fit existing operating systems,

i ako pišemo programe da se uklope u postojeće operativne sisteme,

is that how it works?

da li to tako funkcioniše?

Yeah. I think it's evolutionary.

Da. Mislim da je to evolucija.

It's adaptive.

Prilagođavanje.

But the pleasure and the passion and the joy

Ali zadovoljstvo i strast i uživanje

is still there.

još uvek su tu.

This is a reverse view of things

Ovo je obrnut pogled na stvari

from the kind of traditional Romantic view.

od onog tradicionalnog romantičnog gledanja.

The Romantic view is that

Prema romantičnom gledanju,

first comes the passion

prvo dolazi strast

and then the outpouring of emotion,

a onda izliv emocija

and then somehow it gets shaped into something.

i onda se to nekako uobliči u nešto.

And I'm saying,

A ja kažem,

well, the passion's still there,

pa, strast je i dalje tu,

but the vessel

ali objekat

that it's going to be injected into and poured into,

u koji će se ona izliti

that is instinctively and intuitively

je instinktivno i intuitivno

created first.

prvi kreiran.

We already know where that passion is going.

Već znamo kuda ta strast ide.

But this conflict of views is kind of interesting.

Ali taj sukob gledišta je interesantan.

The writer,

Pisac,

Thomas Frank,

Tomas Frenk,

says that

kaže da

this might be a kind of explanation

ovo može biti jedno od objašnjenja zašto

why some voters vote

neki glasači glasaju

against their best interests,

protiv svojih najboljih interesa,

that voters, like a lot of us,

da glasači, kao mnogi od nas,

assume, that if they hear something that sounds like it's sincere,

pretpostavljaju da, ako čuju nešto što zvuči iskreno,

that it's coming from the gut, that it's passionate,

što dolazi iz dubine, da je to strastveno,

that it's more authentic.

da je autentičnije.

And they'll vote for that.

I glasaće za to.

So that, if somebody can fake sincerity,

Znači, ako neko može da folira iskrenost,

if they can fake passion,

da folira strast,

they stand a better chance

ima bolje šanse

of being selected in that way,

da bude izabran na taj način,

which seems a little dangerous.

što deluje pomalo opasno.

I'm saying the two, the passion, the joy,

Kažem da ta dva, strast i uživanje,

are not mutually exclusive.

nisu međusobno isključivi.

Maybe what the world needs now is for us to realize

Možda je svetu sada potrebno da shvatimo

that we are like the birds.

da smo kao ptice.

We adapt.

Prilagođavamo se.

We sing.

Pevamo.

And like the birds, the joy is still there,

I kao kod ptica, uživanje je i dalje tu,

even though we have changed what we do

iako smo promenili ono što radimo

to fit the context.

da bismo se uklopili u kontekst.

Thank you very much.

Mnogo vam hvala.

(Applause)

(aplauz)