How architecture helped music evolve | David Byrne

翻译人员: Lili Marleen 校对人员: Zhu Jie

This is the venue

就是这个地方

where, as a young man,

那时我还年轻

some of the music that I wrote was first performed.

我的音乐首演就是在这里

It was, remarkably,

特别强调一下，这是一个

a pretty good sounding room.

声音效果非常棒的房间

With all the uneven walls and all the crap everywhere,

墙面凹凸不平，到处都是垃圾

it actually sounded pretty good.

它的音效实际上却非常不错

This is a song that was recorded there.

这首歌就是在那里录制的

(Music)

（音乐）

This is not Talking Heads,

不过照片里的

in the picture anyway.

还不是传声头像（著名摇滚乐队）

(Music: "A Clean Break (Let's Work)" by Talking Heads)

（音乐："A Clean Break (Let's Work)" 传声头像）

So the nature of the room

这房间的结构

meant that words could be understood.

让吐字变得易于理解

The lyrics of the songs could be pretty much understood.

歌词很容易听清

The sound system was kind of decent.

音响系统相当不错

And there wasn't a lot of reverberation in the room.

房间里的混响也不太大

So the rhythms

因此旋律

could be pretty intact too,

保存得相当完好

pretty concise.

相当凝练

Other places around the country had similar rooms.

国内还有很多地方有这样的房间

This is Tootsie's Orchid Lounge in Nashville.

这是纳什维尔的Tootsie's Orchid Lounge

The music was in some ways different,

这里的音乐有些不同

but in structure and form,

但结构和形式

very much the same.

却很相似

The clientele behavior was very much the same too.

客人的行为习惯也很类似

And so the bands at Tootsie's

因此在Tootsie's和

or at CBGB's

CBGB（纽约传奇摇滚音乐俱乐部）里表演的乐队

had to play loud enough --

都必须演奏得非常大声——

the volume had to be loud enough to overcome

音量要大得足以压过

people falling down, shouting out

人们跌倒、大吼大叫

and doing whatever else they were doing.

或者发出的其他声音

Since then, I've played other places

在那以后，我还在其他

that are much nicer.

更高级的场所表演过

I've played the Disney Hall here

我在这里的迪斯尼音乐厅

and Carnegie Hall and places like that.

或是卡内基音乐厅之类的地方演奏过

And it's been very exciting.

都是激动人心的经历

But I also noticed that sometimes the music

但我也发现，有时候

that I had written,

我之前

or was writing at the time,

或是当时谱写的歌曲

didn't sound all that great

在其中的一些音乐厅

in some of those halls.

表现得并不理想

We managed,

我们尽量做了调整

but sometimes those halls didn't seem exactly suited

但有些时候，那些地方

to the music I was making

和我创作的音乐

or had made.

就是显得不太协调

So I asked myself:

我问自己

Do I write stuff

我是不是在为着什么特定的场所

for specific rooms?

进行创作呢？

Do I have a place, a venue,

在我创作时，脑海中

in mind when I write?

是不是有一个地点、一个场所呢？

Is that a kind of model for creativity?

这算不算是一种创作模式呢？

Do we all make things with

我们创作时是不是

a venue, a context, in mind?

脑海中都有着某个场所、某个情境？

Okay, Africa.

好了，这是非洲

(Music: "Wenlenga" / Various artists)

（音乐： "Wenlenga" / 多名艺术家)

Most of the popular music that we know now

当今我们所知的大部分流行音乐

has a big part of its roots in West Africa.

有很大一部分是源于西非的

And the music there,

而这里的音乐

I would say, the instruments,

要我说，这乐器

the intricate rhythms,

这复杂的节奏

the way it's played, the setting, the context,

演奏的方式，背景，情境

it's all perfect. It all works perfect.

一切都很完美，协调得天衣无缝

The music works perfectly in that setting.

在那种背景下，这样的音乐是完美的

There's no big room

没有大房间

to create reverberation and confuse the rhythms.

制造混响，干扰节奏

The instruments are loud enough

乐器的声音也够大

that they can be heard without amplification, etc., etc.

即使没有功放之类的设备也能听得一清二楚

It's no accident.

这不是偶然的

It's perfect for that particular context.

这音乐只在特定情境下才表现得如此完美

And it would be a mess

如果改成这样的场所

in a context like this. This is a gothic cathedral.

那就会一团糟。这是一座哥特式大教堂

(Music: "Spem In Alium" by Thomas Tallis)

（音乐："Spem In Alium" 托马斯·塔利斯）

In a gothic cathedral, this kind of music is perfect.

在哥特式大教堂，这类的音乐才是完美的

It doesn't change key, the notes are long,

不改变音调，音符拖得很长

there's almost no rhythm whatsoever,

基本上没有节奏

and the room flatters the music.

而这个房间则为音乐锦上添花

It actually improves it.

实际上，它提升了音乐

This is the room that Bach

这里是巴赫为其

wrote some of his music for. This is the organ.

创作乐曲的地方。这是管风琴

It's not as big as a gothic cathedral,

这里并没有哥特式大教堂那么大

so he can write things that are a little bit more intricate.

所以他可以创作更繁复的作品

He can, very innovatively,

他可以标新立异

actually change keys

改变调子

without risking huge dissonances.

而不会发生不协和和音

(Music: "Fantasia On Jesu, Mein Freunde" by Johann S. Bach)

（音乐："Fantasia On Jesu, Mein Freunde" 约翰·S·巴赫）

This is a little bit later.

这是晚些时候

This is the kind of rooms that Mozart wrote in.

类似莫扎特创作时所在的房间

I think we're in like 1770, somewhere around there.

我想大概是1770年左右的建筑

They're smaller, even less reverberant,

它们空间更小，混响也更小

so he can write really frilly music

所以他能作出可谓华丽的曲子

that's very intricate -- and it works.

他的音乐非常繁复——而且效果甚佳

(Music: "Sonata in F," KV 13, by Wolfgang A. Mozart)

（音乐："F小调奏鸣曲" 乌夫冈·A·莫扎特）

It fits the room perfectly.

它完美地契合了这个房间

This is La Scala.

这是斯卡啦剧院（位于意大利米兰）

It's around the same time,

它和之前的那个房间差不多建造于同一时期

I think it was built around 1776.

我想大概建于1776年

People in the audience in these opera houses, when they were built,

在歌剧院建成的时期

they used to yell out to one another.

里面的听众常常互相嚷嚷

They used to eat, drink and yell out to people on the stage,

他们经常一边大吃大喝，一边和舞台上的人大喊大叫

just like they do at CBGB's and places like that.

就像CBGB这类场所的观众一样

If they liked an aria,

如果他们喜欢其中一段咏叹调

they would holler and suggest

会大喊着建议

that it be done again as an encore,

这一段再演一次

not at the end of the show, but immediately.

不是在演出最后再演一次，而是马上重演

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And well, that was an opera experience.

嗯，那就是看歌剧的经验之谈

This is the opera house that Wagner built for himself.

这是瓦格纳自己建造的歌剧院

And the size of the room is not that big.

剧院的规模不是很大

It's smaller than this.

比这里要小

But Wagner made an innovation.

但是瓦格纳进行了革新

He wanted a bigger band.

他想要一支更大的乐队

He wanted a little more bombast,

多一点浮华的感觉

so he increased the size of the orchestra pit

于是他增加了乐池的面积

so he could get more low-end instruments in there.

这样就可以容纳更多的低音乐器

(Music: "Lohengrin / Prelude to Act III" by Richard Wagner)

（音乐："罗恩格林/第三幕序曲" 理查德·瓦格纳）

Okay.

好了

This is Carnegie Hall.

这是卡内基音乐厅

Obviously, this kind of thing became popular.

这类的建筑显然已经流行起来

The halls got bigger. Carnegie Hall's fair-sized.

音乐厅规模更大。卡内基音乐厅的大小和集市差不多

It's larger than some of the other symphony halls.

比一些交响乐厅还大

And they're a lot more reverberant

那里的混响比

than La Scala.

斯卡拉剧院的更大

Around the same,

与此同时

according to Alex Ross who writes for the New Yorker,

根据Alex Ross给《纽约客》所写的文章可以看出

this kind of rule came into effect

这样的规则孕育而生：

that audiences had to be quiet --

观众必须保持安静

no more eating, drinking and yelling at the stage,

在演出的过程中，不能再吃吃喝喝

or gossiping with one another

向舞台上大喊大叫

during the show.

或者和别人交头接耳

They had to be very quiet.

他们必须非常安静

So those two things combined meant that

结合这两件事来看

a different kind of music

有一种不同类型的音乐

worked best in these kind of halls.

在这样的音乐厅中效果最好

It meant that there could be extreme dynamics,

它可以气势磅礴

which there weren't in some of these

这是之前某些

other kinds of music.

种类的音乐所不具有的

Quiet parts could be heard

安静的部分也听得到

that would have been drowned out

虽然很容易被

by all the gossiping and shouting.

悄悄话和叫喊声淹没

But because of the reverberation

但由于混响的关系

in those rooms like Carnegie Hall,

在卡内基音乐厅之类的地方

the music had to be maybe a little less rhythmic

音乐的节奏得稍微降低

and a little more textural.

质地却稍微提高

(Music: "Symphony No. 8 in E Flat Major" by Gustav Mahler)

（音乐：“降E大调第八交响曲” 古斯塔夫·马勒）

This is Mahler.

这是马勒

It looks like Bob Dylan, but it's Mahler.

虽然看上去像鲍勃·迪伦，但这确实是马勒

That was Bob's last record, yeah.

哈，这是鲍勃的最后一张唱片

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Popular music, coming along at the same time.

流行音乐同时也诞生了

This is a jazz band.

这是一支爵士乐队

According to Scott Joplin, the bands were playing

据斯科特·乔普林所说，这支乐队曾经

on riverboats and clubs.

在游船和夜总会中表演过

Again, it's noisy. They're playing for dancers.

这一次的环境又很嘈杂。他们为跳舞的人伴奏

There's certain sections of the song -- the songs had different sections

有些段落舞者特别喜欢

that the dancers really liked.

——一首歌中有好几个段落

And they'd say, "Play that part again."

他们会说：“把那部分再演奏一次。”

Well, there's only so many times

有很多时候

you can play the same section of a song over and over again for the dancers.

为了满足舞者，你会一次又一次地演奏同一个段落

So the bands started to improvise new melodies.

因此，乐队开始即兴创作新的曲子

And a new form of music was born.

一种音乐的新类型诞生了

(Music: "Royal Garden Blues" by W.C. Handy / Ethel Waters)

（音乐："皇家花园蓝调" W.C. Handy / Ethel Waters）

These are played mainly in small rooms.

爵士乐主要在空间较小的室内演奏

People are dancing, shouting and drinking.

人们跳舞、叫喊、畅饮

So the music has to be loud enough

所以，音乐的声音必须够大

to be heard above that.

盖过别的声音

Same thing goes true for -- that's the beginning of the century --

有些事情成真了。——那是在这个世纪之初

for the whole of 20th-century popular music,

对整个20世纪的流行音乐来说

whether it's rock or Latin music or whatever.

无论是摇滚还是拉丁音乐

[Live music] doesn't really change that much.

对音乐的改变都不是很大

It changes about a third of the way into the 20th century,

但当它成为音乐的主要媒介之一后

when this became

在20世纪的前30年间

one of the primary venues for music.

流行音乐就发生了很大改变

And this was one way

而这是音乐传播到那里的

that the music got there.

方法之一

Microphones enabled singers, in particular,

麦克风完全改变了

and musicians and composers,

音乐家、作曲家

to completely change the kind of music

特别是歌手

that they were writing.

创作的作品

So far, a lot of the stuff that was on the radio was live music,

迄今为止，收音机上大多播放的都是现场演奏

but singers, like Frank Sinatra,

但有些歌手，比如法兰克·辛纳屈（Frank Sinatra）

could use the mic

可以用麦克风

and do things

制造一些

that they could never do without a microphone.

不用麦克风根本无法达到的效果

Other singers after him

在他之后，更有一些歌手

went even further.

把这种做法发扬光大

(Music: "My Funny Valentine" by Chet Baker)

（音乐："My Funny Valentine" Chet Baker）

This is Chet Baker.

这是Chet Baker（著名爵士乐手）

And this kind of thing

这种效果

would have been impossible without a microphone.

没有麦克风绝对做不出来

It would have been impossible without recorded music as well.

如果没有录成唱片，那也无法达到

And he's singing right into your ear.

他就在你的耳畔歌唱

He's whispering into your ears.

在你的耳畔低语

The effect is just electric.

这种效果就像过了电一样

It's like the guy is sitting next to you,

仿佛歌手就坐在你的身边

whispering who knows what into your ear.

和你说着什么东西

So at this point, music diverged.

从那个时候起，音乐开始分化

There's live music,

既有现场音乐

and there's recorded music.

也有唱片音乐

And they no longer have to be exactly the same.

它们不再完全相同

Now there's venues like this, a discotheque,

现在还有迪斯科舞厅这样的地方

and there's jukeboxes in bars,

在酒吧里也有自动点唱机

where you don't even need to have a band.

这些地方就不需要乐队了

There doesn't need to be any

不需要那些

live performing musicians whatsoever,

现场乐队之类的角色

and the sound systems are good.

那里的音响不错

People began to make music

人们开始专门为迪斯科

specifically for discos

和这些音响

and for those sound systems.

创作音乐

And, as with jazz,

此外，和爵士一样

the dancers liked certain sections

跳舞的人会特别喜欢

more than they did others.

其中一些片段

So the early hip-hop guys would loop certain sections.

所以早期的嘻哈歌手会来回重复某些段落

(Music: "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang)

（音乐："Rapper's Delight" The Sugarhill Gang）

The MC would improvise lyrics

歌手会即兴创作歌词

in the same way that the jazz players would improvise melodies.

就像爵士演奏者会即兴创作曲子一样

And another new form of music was born.

此外，还诞生了新的音乐模式

Live performance, when it was incredibly successful,

现场演出，它取得了空前的成功

ended up in what is probably, acoustically,

而它诞生的场所从音响效果上来看

the worst sounding venues on the planet:

这恐怕是世界上最不适合听音乐的地方了

sports stadiums,

体育场

basketball arenas and hockey arenas.

篮球场，还有冰球场

Musicians who ended up there did the best they could.

音乐家们尽了最大努力

They wrote what is now called arena rock,

他们创作了“舞台摇滚”（arena rock）

which is medium-speed ballads.

听起来像是中速的谣曲

(Music: "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" by U2)

（音乐："I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" U2）

They did the best they could

他们已经尽了全力

given that this is what they're writing for.

写出了这样的歌曲

The tempos are medium. It sounds big.

节拍不快不慢，听起来很浑厚

It's more a social situation

比起音乐场所

than a musical situation.

那里更像是一个社交场所

And in some ways, the music

在某些方面

that they're writing for this place

他们为那里创作的音乐

works perfectly.

非常契合

So there's more new venues.

那么，还有更多新的环境

One of the new ones is the automobile.

其中一个是汽车

I grew up with a radio in a car.

我是在汽车中的收音机边长大的

But now that's evolved into something else.

但如今它进化了

The car is a whole venue.

整辆汽车变成了一个环境

(Music: "Who U Wit" by Lil' Jon & the East Side Boyz)

（音乐："Who U Wit" Lil' Jon & the East Side Boyz）

The music that, I would say, is written

这种音乐，让我说，是写给

for automobile sound systems

汽车音响系统的

works perfectly on it.

完美地匹配了这个环境

It might not be what you want to listen to at home,

这也许不是你想在家里听的音乐

but it works great in the car --

但在车子里听起来却很棒——

has a huge frequency spectrum,

频谱很宽

you know, big bass and high-end

重低音，发烧天碟，你懂的

and the voice kind of stuck in the middle.

人声一般集中在中频

Automobile music, you can share with your friends.

我们可以和朋友一起享受汽车音乐

There's one other kind of new venue,

还有另一种新的环境

the private MP3 player.

私人MP3播放器

Presumably, this is just for Christian music.

这一个大概只用来听基督教音乐吧

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And in some ways it's like Carnegie Hall,

在某个方面，这和卡内基音乐厅有点像

or when the audience had to hush up,

听音乐的人必须安静

because you can now hear every single detail.

因为你能听到所有的细节

In other ways, it's more like the West African music

在别的方面，它又更像西非音乐

because if the music in an MP3 player gets too quiet,

因为如果MP3播放器里的音乐太过于安静

you turn it up, and the next minute,

你把音量调高了，而下一秒钟

your ears are blasted out by a louder passage.

你的耳朵会被另一段嘈杂的音乐震聋

So that doesn't really work.

所以这并不很好用

I think pop music, mainly,

我想，当前创作的

it's written today,

大多数流行音乐

to some extent, is written for these kind of players,

可以说是写给这类播放器

for this kind of personal experience

这种个人体验的

where you can hear extreme detail,

你能听出细枝末节

but the dynamic doesn't change that much.

又不怎么改变音乐的本质

So I asked myself:

我自问

Okay, is this

好了，这是不是

a model for creation,

一种创作的模式呢？

this adaptation that we do?

我们是不是在适应环境呢？

And does it happen anywhere else?

这又是不是放之四海而皆准呢？

Well, according to David Attenborough and some other people,

根据大卫·爱登堡（David Attenborough，著名生物纪录片主持人）和其他人所说

birds do it too --

鸟儿们也是这么做的

that the birds in the canopy,

树冠上的鸟

where the foliage is dense,

在树枝浓密的地方

their calls tend to be

它们的叫声通常

high-pitched, short and repetitive.

调子更高，急促，反复

And the birds on the floor

而地面上的鸟

tend to have lower pitched calls,

叫声通常调子更低

so that they don't get distorted

这样当它们在森林的地面上蹦蹦跳跳时

when they bounce off the forest floor.

声音也不会被扰乱

And birds like this Savannah sparrow,

像这只草原雀（Savannah sparrow）

they tend to have a buzzing

它们的叫声更接近嘤嘤作响

(Sound clip: Savannah sparrow song)

（声音片段：草原雀之歌）

type call.

的类型

And it turns out that

事实证明

a sound like this

这样的声音

is the most energy efficient and practical way

能最有效、实用地利用体内能量

to transmit their call

传播它们的叫声

across the fields and savannahs.

穿越田野和草原

Other birds, like this tanager,

其他的鸟，像这只唐纳雀（tananger）

have adapted within the same species.

是同一鸟种中适应环境后的种类

The tananger on the East Coast of the United States,

唐纳雀生活在美国东海岸

where the forests are a little denser,

那里的森林更茂盛一些

has one kind of call,

它们的叫声是这样的

and the tananger on the other side, on the west

而这一只唐纳雀则生活在对面，西边

(Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song)

（声音片段：猩红唐纳雀之歌）

has a different kind of call.

它有着另一种叫声

(Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song)

（声音片段：猩红唐纳雀之歌）

So birds do it too.

因此，鸟儿也一样这么做

And I thought:

然后我想

Well, if this is a model for creation,

好吧，如果这是一种创作模式

if we make music,

如果我们创作音乐时

primarily the form at least,

主要得符合情境

to fit these contexts,

至少在形式上如此

and if we make art to fit gallery walls or museum walls,

如果我们根据画廊或者博物馆的墙壁来绘制作品

and if we write software to fit existing operating systems,

如果我们根据现有的操作系统来编写软件

is that how it works?

这就是事情进行的方式吗？

Yeah. I think it's evolutionary.

对，我想这是一种进化

It's adaptive.

一种适应能力

But the pleasure and the passion and the joy

但乐趣、激情和愉悦

is still there.

仍然存在

This is a reverse view of things

这是和传统的浪漫情怀

from the kind of traditional Romantic view.

正好相反的观点

The Romantic view is that

在浪漫的观点看来

first comes the passion

首先有激情

and then the outpouring of emotion,

然后才有洋溢的感情

and then somehow it gets shaped into something.

接着，它再被塑造成不同的东西

And I'm saying,

我要说

well, the passion's still there,

的确，激情不可或缺

but the vessel

但容器

that it's going to be injected into and poured into,

那即将被填满、充实的容器

that is instinctively and intuitively

在最初就根据直觉

created first.

已经创造出来了

We already know where that passion is going.

我们之前就知道激情会走向何方

But this conflict of views is kind of interesting.

然而，这两个观点冲突的地方有一点挺有趣

The writer,

一名作家

Thomas Frank,

托马斯·弗兰克

says that

曾说

this might be a kind of explanation

也许有一种解释可以说明

why some voters vote

为什么有些选民

against their best interests,

给自己利益的对立面投了一票

that voters, like a lot of us,

这些选民和我们的大多数人一样

assume, that if they hear something that sounds like it's sincere,

假设，如果他们觉得某一方听起来很真诚

that it's coming from the gut, that it's passionate,

发自内心，激情洋溢

that it's more authentic.

那一方就是更可靠的

And they'll vote for that.

他们会投上一票

So that, if somebody can fake sincerity,

所以，如果有人假装真诚

if they can fake passion,

假装富有激情

they stand a better chance

靠着这种方法，当然有一点风险

of being selected in that way,

但他们就有更大的机会

which seems a little dangerous.

被选上

I'm saying the two, the passion, the joy,

我要说，激情和快乐

are not mutually exclusive.

并不是势不两立的

Maybe what the world needs now is for us to realize

或许，世界现在需要我们认识到

that we are like the birds.

我们就像鸟儿

We adapt.

我们适应环境

We sing.

我们歌唱

And like the birds, the joy is still there,

也和鸟儿一样，快乐仍在

even though we have changed what we do

即使我们改变了做法

to fit the context.

为了适应环境

Thank you very much.

非常感谢

(Applause)

（掌声）