How architecture helped music evolve | David Byrne

譯者: Sunshine Wang 審譯者: Lin Su-Wei(林書暐)

This is the venue

就是這個場地，

where, as a young man,

我年輕的時候

some of the music that I wrote was first performed.

一些當時寫的音樂，最早是在這裡演出的。

It was, remarkably,

這個空間有相當

a pretty good sounding room.

好的音效。

With all the uneven walls and all the crap everywhere,

不平坦的牆面，那些雜七雜八的東西，

it actually sounded pretty good.

其實製造出很好的音效。

This is a song that was recorded there.

這首歌是在那裏錄製的。

(Music)

(音樂)

This is not Talking Heads,

這不是面部特寫，

in the picture anyway.

我是指照片裡的不是面部特寫。

(Music: "A Clean Break (Let's Work)" by Talking Heads)

(音樂：徹底決裂 (我們分手吧) 面部特寫合唱團演唱)

So the nature of the room

這個場地的特色，

meant that words could be understood.

是要讓每一個字都可以被聽到。

The lyrics of the songs could be pretty much understood.

歌詞可以被清楚的聽到。

The sound system was kind of decent.

這裡的音響系統還蠻不錯的，

And there wasn't a lot of reverberation in the room.

也沒有太多的回聲。

So the rhythms

所以音樂的節拍，

could be pretty intact too,

也相當完整，

pretty concise.

相當簡潔。

Other places around the country had similar rooms.

美國還有類似的場地。

This is Tootsie's Orchid Lounge in Nashville.

這是那什維爾的杜絲蘭花酒吧。

The music was in some ways different,

這裡的音樂不太一樣，

but in structure and form,

但就結構和形式而言，

very much the same.

其實大同小異。

The clientele behavior was very much the same too.

客人們的行為也幾乎一樣。

And so the bands at Tootsie's

所以樂團在杜絲蘭花酒吧

or at CBGB's

或是在CBGB's （註：位於紐約的酒吧，龐克音樂誕生地）

had to play loud enough --

必須演奏得夠大聲，

the volume had to be loud enough to overcome

音量要大到足以蓋過

people falling down, shouting out

人們跌倒、吶喊，

and doing whatever else they were doing.

及其他任何的聲音。

Since then, I've played other places

之後，我在一些

that are much nicer.

更好的地方表演，

I've played the Disney Hall here

迪士尼音樂廳、

and Carnegie Hall and places like that.

卡內基音樂廳等等。

And it's been very exciting.

這一切令人很興奮。

But I also noticed that sometimes the music

但是我也注意到，有時

that I had written,

我所寫好的音樂，

or was writing at the time,

或是當時正在創作的音樂，

didn't sound all that great

在某些音樂廳裡

in some of those halls.

聽起來並不是那麼的好。

We managed,

我們設法解決，

but sometimes those halls didn't seem exactly suited

但有時候那些場地完全不合適

to the music I was making

我當時正在創作的，

or had made.

或已經寫好的音樂。

So I asked myself:

我問自己：

Do I write stuff

「我是為了某個特定的場地

for specific rooms?

寫音樂嗎？

Do I have a place, a venue,

我在創作音樂時，

in mind when I write?

是否有一個特定地方在我的腦海中？」

Is that a kind of model for creativity?

「這是不是一種創造的模式？」

Do we all make things with

「是不是在我們創造的當下

a venue, a context, in mind?

心中都存有某個場地，某種背景情境？」

Okay, Africa.

好，來看看非洲。

(Music: "Wenlenga" / Various artists)

(音樂：Wenlenga，眾多藝人合唱)

Most of the popular music that we know now

許多我們所熟悉的流行音樂，

has a big part of its roots in West Africa.

有很大一部分是源自於西非。

And the music there,

那裏的音樂，

I would say, the instruments,

它的樂器，

the intricate rhythms,

複雜的節奏，

the way it's played, the setting, the context,

演奏的方式，譜曲，整首曲子的氛圍，

it's all perfect. It all works perfect.

真是太完美了! 一切都搭配的完美極了!

The music works perfectly in that setting.

這首曲子在那個場地演奏效果非常棒!

There's no big room

沒有大的室內場地

to create reverberation and confuse the rhythms.

會製造回聲，把節奏攪亂。

The instruments are loud enough

所有樂器的音量也夠大聲

that they can be heard without amplification, etc., etc.

不需要擴音都能聽得到，還有其它一些因素...。

It's no accident.

這並非偶然，

It's perfect for that particular context.

在這特定的背景情境中，這一切都無懈可擊。

And it would be a mess

但要是換到了這裡，

in a context like this. This is a gothic cathedral.

哥德式大教堂，那可就會一塌糊塗了!

(Music: "Spem In Alium" by Thomas Tallis)

(音樂："寄託的希望" 四十聲部經文歌 湯瑪斯．泰利斯 作曲)

In a gothic cathedral, this kind of music is perfect.

在哥德式大教堂裡，這樣的音樂是完美無暇的。

It doesn't change key, the notes are long,

這建築物不會改變音調，音符拉的很長，

there's almost no rhythm whatsoever,

這樣的音樂沒有強烈節奏。

and the room flatters the music.

這空間使音樂顯得更美，

It actually improves it.

其實還提升、改善了音樂。

This is the room that Bach

巴哈為了這個場地

wrote some of his music for. This is the organ.

寫了一些音樂。這是管風琴。

It's not as big as a gothic cathedral,

這裡不如哥德式大教堂那麼大，

so he can write things that are a little bit more intricate.

所以巴哈可以作一些複雜的曲子。

He can, very innovatively,

他可以盡情的創作，

actually change keys

放手改編曲調，

without risking huge dissonances.

無須擔心樂曲會過於不諧調。

(Music: "Fantasia On Jesu, Mein Freunde" by Johann S. Bach)

(音樂："幻想曲 耶穌，我的至寶" 約翰．塞巴斯蒂安．巴哈 作曲)

This is a little bit later.

這是後來，

This is the kind of rooms that Mozart wrote in.

莫札特在像這樣的空間裡創作。

I think we're in like 1770, somewhere around there.

這大約是1770年左右。

They're smaller, even less reverberant,

這樣的空間比較小，回聲也比較少。

so he can write really frilly music

因此莫札特可以寫很華麗的、

that's very intricate -- and it works.

很複雜的樂曲，而且效果很好。

(Music: "Sonata in F," KV 13, by Wolfgang A. Mozart)

(音樂："奏鳴曲 F大調" KV13 沃爾夫岡．阿瑪迪斯，莫札特作曲)

It fits the room perfectly.

這首奏鳴曲非常適合這裡。

This is La Scala.

這是史卡拉歌劇院，

It's around the same time,

同一時期的建築，

I think it was built around 1776.

大約建於1776年左右，

People in the audience in these opera houses, when they were built,

當時歌劇院裡的觀眾，

they used to yell out to one another.

會彼此呼來喚去，

They used to eat, drink and yell out to people on the stage,

會吃東西，喝飲料，還會對台上的人叫喊，

just like they do at CBGB's and places like that.

就像CBGB's的觀眾一般。

If they liked an aria,

如果他們喜歡某段詠歎調，

they would holler and suggest

就會大聲喊安可，

that it be done again as an encore,

要求再把這一段唱一遍，

not at the end of the show, but immediately.

觀眾會馬上喊安可，不是等到表演完畢。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

And well, that was an opera experience.

嗯，那是一種聆聽歌劇的經驗。

This is the opera house that Wagner built for himself.

這是華格納為自己蓋的歌劇院。

And the size of the room is not that big.

這個空間並不是那麼的大。

It's smaller than this.

比起現在這裡小。

But Wagner made an innovation.

但是華格納有一項創舉，

He wanted a bigger band.

他想要容納更大的樂團，

He wanted a little more bombast,

想要讓音樂更華麗一些，

so he increased the size of the orchestra pit

所以他把樂池給加大了，

so he could get more low-end instruments in there.

這麼一來就可以容納更多的低音樂器。

(Music: "Lohengrin / Prelude to Act III" by Richard Wagner)

(音樂："羅安格林 / 序曲至第三幕" 華格納 作曲)

Okay.

好，

This is Carnegie Hall.

這是卡內基音樂廳。

Obviously, this kind of thing became popular.

顯然這股風潮流行起來流，

The halls got bigger. Carnegie Hall's fair-sized.

音樂廳越來越大，卡內基音樂廳就很大，

It's larger than some of the other symphony halls.

比其他音樂廳都要來的大。

And they're a lot more reverberant

比史卡拉歌劇院

than La Scala.

回聲也大得多。

Around the same,

在這個時期，

according to Alex Ross who writes for the New Yorker,

根據《紐約客》音樂評論 艾力克斯．羅斯的說法，

this kind of rule came into effect

開始有欣賞古典音樂的禮節:

that audiences had to be quiet --

觀眾必須安靜，

no more eating, drinking and yelling at the stage,

不准進食，喝飲料，也不可以對著舞台大叫，

or gossiping with one another

在表演進行時，

during the show.

不得在席間交頭接耳。

They had to be very quiet.

觀眾必須非常地安靜。

So those two things combined meant that

這兩件事結合起來意味著

a different kind of music

有一種不同的音樂，

worked best in these kind of halls.

最適合在這些音樂廳中演出。

It meant that there could be extreme dynamics,

意味著音樂的張力可以展現到極致，

which there weren't in some of these

這在其他類型的音樂

other kinds of music.

是看不到的。

Quiet parts could be heard

以前被觀眾叫喊或交頭接耳的聲音

that would have been drowned out

給淹沒的輕柔樂曲

by all the gossiping and shouting.

現在可以聽得一清二楚。

But because of the reverberation

因為回聲變大了，

in those rooms like Carnegie Hall,

像卡內基音樂廳這樣的場地，

the music had to be maybe a little less rhythmic

音樂的節奏性必須不是那麼強，

and a little more textural.

而要更注重樂曲的整體諧和。

(Music: "Symphony No. 8 in E Flat Major" by Gustav Mahler)

(音樂：" 降E大調第八號交響曲 「千人」" 馬勒 作曲)

This is Mahler.

這是馬勒，

It looks like Bob Dylan, but it's Mahler.

看起來像巴布狄倫，但是是馬勒，

That was Bob's last record, yeah.

對啦，是巴布狄倫最後一次錄音，沒錯！

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

Popular music, coming along at the same time.

同一時期，流行音樂興起了，

This is a jazz band.

這是一個爵士樂團

According to Scott Joplin, the bands were playing

斯科特 · 喬普林說當他們的樂團

on riverboats and clubs.

在船上及俱樂部裡表演時，

Again, it's noisy. They're playing for dancers.

這些場地也是很吵雜。他們演奏的對象是舞客。

There's certain sections of the song -- the songs had different sections

舞客們非常喜愛樂曲裡的某一段，

that the dancers really liked.

許多樂曲裡的不同的片段，

And they'd say, "Play that part again."

舞客會說：「那一段再來一遍吧。」

Well, there's only so many times

嗯，同樣的片段，

you can play the same section of a song over and over again for the dancers.

你頂多只能重複表演個幾次，

So the bands started to improvise new melodies.

所以樂團開始臨場即興創作新的旋律，

And a new form of music was born.

一種新的音樂風格誕生了。

(Music: "Royal Garden Blues" by W.C. Handy / Ethel Waters)

(音樂："皇家花園藍調曲" W.C.韓第 / 艾索華特斯 演出)

These are played mainly in small rooms.

這種新的音樂多半是在小場地表演。

People are dancing, shouting and drinking.

觀眾會跳舞，叫喊，喝酒，

So the music has to be loud enough

所以音樂必須要夠大聲，

to be heard above that.

大過其他所有的聲音，

Same thing goes true for -- that's the beginning of the century --

二十世紀初的音樂皆然。

for the whole of 20th-century popular music,

整個二十世紀的流行音樂—

whether it's rock or Latin music or whatever.

不論是搖滾、拉丁，或其他類型的音樂，

[Live music] doesn't really change that much.

都沒有多大的改變，

It changes about a third of the way into the 20th century,

一直到了30年代，開始有了變化，

when this became

收音機變成了

one of the primary venues for music.

演奏的主要場地之一，

And this was one way

麥克風成為

that the music got there.

音樂傳送的方式。

Microphones enabled singers, in particular,

麥克風讓音樂家和作曲家

and musicians and composers,

尤其是歌手，

to completely change the kind of music

完完全全的改變了

that they were writing.

他們當時所寫的音樂的類型。

So far, a lot of the stuff that was on the radio was live music,

這個時期，收音機播放的多是現場演奏的音樂，

but singers, like Frank Sinatra,

但是歌手們，像法蘭克辛納屈，

could use the mic

可以用麥克風

and do things

來表現一些在沒有麥克風之前

that they could never do without a microphone.

是不可能辦到的演唱技巧。

Other singers after him

法蘭克辛納屈之後的歌手，

went even further.

把麥克風更發揚光大。

(Music: "My Funny Valentine" by Chet Baker)

(音樂："我可笑的情人" 查特．貝克 演唱)

This is Chet Baker.

這是查特．貝克，

And this kind of thing

留聲機這樣的機器，

would have been impossible without a microphone.

沒有麥克風是不可能的，

It would have been impossible without recorded music as well.

要是沒有錄製的音樂也是不可能的。

And he's singing right into your ear.

這就像查特．貝克正在你的耳邊唱歌，

He's whispering into your ears.

就像他正在你的耳邊輕柔的唱歌。

The effect is just electric.

感覺好像觸電一樣，

It's like the guy is sitting next to you,

就像他就坐在你旁邊，

whispering who knows what into your ear.

對著你的耳朵輕聲細語。

So at this point, music diverged.

這時音樂發展有了新的走向。

There's live music,

有現場音樂，

and there's recorded music.

有錄音音樂，

And they no longer have to be exactly the same.

現場音樂和錄音音樂不必完全一樣。

Now there's venues like this, a discotheque,

後來迪斯科舞廳出現了，

and there's jukeboxes in bars,

酒吧裡有點唱機，

where you don't even need to have a band.

在這些地方甚至不需要樂團。

There doesn't need to be any

這些地方不再需要

live performing musicians whatsoever,

現場表演的樂手了。

and the sound systems are good.

音響系統也很棒。

People began to make music

歌手開始針對迪斯科

specifically for discos

及音響系統

and for those sound systems.

來創作音樂。

And, as with jazz,

就像爵士樂一樣，

the dancers liked certain sections

這些舞客也特別喜歡

more than they did others.

曲子裡的某一段，

So the early hip-hop guys would loop certain sections.

所以早期的嘻哈饒舌歌手會一直重複某一個部分。

(Music: "Rapper's Delight" by The Sugarhill Gang)

(音樂："說唱樂手的樂趣" 糖山幫 演唱)

The MC would improvise lyrics

饒舌歌手會現場即興創作歌詞，

in the same way that the jazz players would improvise melodies.

就像爵士樂手即興創作新旋律一般。

And another new form of music was born.

因此，一種新的音樂形式誕生了。

Live performance, when it was incredibly successful,

當時非常成功的現場音樂表演，

ended up in what is probably, acoustically,

來到了可能是音效、

the worst sounding venues on the planet:

音響系統最糟的場地，

sports stadiums,

像體育場、

basketball arenas and hockey arenas.

籃球場、及曲棍球場。

Musicians who ended up there did the best they could.

在這些場地表演的樂手們可是卯足了全力，

They wrote what is now called arena rock,

創作出體育館搖滾樂，

which is medium-speed ballads.

是一種不快不慢的歌曲。

(Music: "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" by U2)

(音樂："我仍未找到我所找尋的" U2 演唱)

They did the best they could

以體育館搖滾樂這種音樂類型而言，

given that this is what they're writing for.

他們表現的非常好，

The tempos are medium. It sounds big.

節奏不疾不徐，聲音很大。

It's more a social situation

這比較像是一個社交場合，

than a musical situation.

反而不像是音樂場合。

And in some ways, the music

而且從某些角度來看，他們創作的音樂，

that they're writing for this place

在體育館這一類場地

works perfectly.

表演起來非常的棒。

So there's more new venues.

還有更新的場地，

One of the new ones is the automobile.

車子是其中之一。

I grew up with a radio in a car.

我成長的過程中，車子裡有收音機。

But now that's evolved into something else.

但是現在已經演進成新的東西，

The car is a whole venue.

這輛車是自成一格音樂場地。

(Music: "Who U Wit" by Lil' Jon & the East Side Boyz)

(音樂："你跟誰" 力．喬恩 & 東城男孩 演出)

The music that, I would say, is written

我認為這首歌是專門為了

for automobile sound systems

汽車音響而寫的，

works perfectly on it.

而且在汽車裡播放效果非棒。

It might not be what you want to listen to at home,

你不會想在家裡聽這樣的音樂，

but it works great in the car --

但在汽車裡聽起來很棒，

has a huge frequency spectrum,

有很廣的振動頻率範圍，

you know, big bass and high-end

有重低音也有高音，

and the voice kind of stuck in the middle.

歌手的聲音正好在中間。

Automobile music, you can share with your friends.

汽車音樂可以和朋友們一起聽。

There's one other kind of new venue,

而有另一種新的音樂演出場地：

the private MP3 player.

MP3播放器。

Presumably, this is just for Christian music.

播放的很可能是基督教音樂。

(Laughter)

(笑聲)

And in some ways it's like Carnegie Hall,

從某些方面來看，MP3就像卡內基音樂廳，

or when the audience had to hush up,

你必須安靜下來，

because you can now hear every single detail.

每一個細節都能聽得清清楚楚。

In other ways, it's more like the West African music

而從另一方面來看，MP3又更像西非音樂，

because if the music in an MP3 player gets too quiet,

當你聽MP3，音樂變小聲時，

you turn it up, and the next minute,

你把音量調大聲，然後

your ears are blasted out by a louder passage.

音樂大聲到好像在轟炸你的耳朵。

So that doesn't really work.

音樂忽小忽大是不行的。

I think pop music, mainly,

我認為在某種程度上，

it's written today,

現在流行音樂的創作，

to some extent, is written for these kind of players,

主要是為了像MP3這類的播放器，

for this kind of personal experience

是為了像這樣個人化的聆聽經驗而寫的，

where you can hear extreme detail,

你可以聽到非常細微的細節，

but the dynamic doesn't change that much.

但是音樂還是張力十足。

So I asked myself:

所以我問我自己：

Okay, is this

「我們這樣的改變、適應，

a model for creation,

這究竟是不是

this adaptation that we do?

一種創作的模式？

And does it happen anywhere else?

這是否也發生在其他的領域？」

Well, according to David Attenborough and some other people,

大衛·艾登伯祿及一些人認為

birds do it too --

鳥類也有同樣的行為。

that the birds in the canopy,

在樹葉濃密的樹冠層

where the foliage is dense,

生活的鳥類，

their calls tend to be

聲調往往較高、

high-pitched, short and repetitive.

叫聲短促且重複。

And the birds on the floor

住在森林地面的鳥類

tend to have lower pitched calls,

叫聲則較低沉，

so that they don't get distorted

這麼一來，當他們的叫聲在森林裡傳送時，

when they bounce off the forest floor.

聲音才不至於變調、失真。

And birds like this Savannah sparrow,

像稀樹草鵐這類的鳥，

they tend to have a buzzing

叫聲是持續的

(Sound clip: Savannah sparrow song)

(聲音：稀樹草鵐鳴叫聲)

type call.

一種低鳴聲。

And it turns out that

結果聽起來

a sound like this

像是這樣，

is the most energy efficient and practical way

這是高效率又聰明的

to transmit their call

聲音傳送方法，

across the fields and savannahs.

可以穿越廣闊的原野，傳達給其它的稀樹草鵐。

Other birds, like this tanager,

其它的鳥，像唐納雀，

have adapted within the same species.

在同類中也有這種改變、適應的例子發生。

The tananger on the East Coast of the United States,

美國東岸

where the forests are a little denser,

森林較濃密，

has one kind of call,

這裡的唐納雀有一種叫聲；

and the tananger on the other side, on the west

而西岸的唐納雀

(Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song)

(聲音：緋紅風琴鳥鳴叫聲)

has a different kind of call.

叫聲則不一樣。

(Sound clip: Scarlet tanager song)

(聲音：緋紅風琴鳥鳴叫聲)

So birds do it too.

鳥類也會因適應環境而改變叫聲。

And I thought:

我想：

Well, if this is a model for creation,

「這是否是一種創作的模式；

if we make music,

是否我們創作音樂時，

primarily the form at least,

根本的考量就是，最起碼音樂的形式

to fit these contexts,

要完全合適表演場地的背景環境？

and if we make art to fit gallery walls or museum walls,

是否埋首藝術創作時，我們想著作品得適合美術館的牆？

and if we write software to fit existing operating systems,

是否設計軟體時，我們想著如何相容於在現有的作業系統？

is that how it works?

這是不是我們創作時的心理狀態？」

Yeah. I think it's evolutionary.

是的，在我看來，這是一種進化，

It's adaptive.

音樂發展的適應性，

But the pleasure and the passion and the joy

可是創作音樂的快樂、熱情和喜悅

is still there.

仍然在那兒。

This is a reverse view of things

從傳統浪漫的觀點來看，

from the kind of traditional Romantic view.

這是相反的看法，

The Romantic view is that

傳統浪漫的觀點認為

first comes the passion

音樂創作首先有源自於音樂家的熱情，

and then the outpouring of emotion,

將其湧現的情感傾注其間，

and then somehow it gets shaped into something.

音樂作品隨之成形。

And I'm saying,

而我認為，

well, the passion's still there,

創作的熱情始終都在，

but the vessel

而要承接

that it's going to be injected into and poured into,

這股熱情的作品，

that is instinctively and intuitively

早已直覺地

created first.

被創造出來。

We already know where that passion is going.

那一股創作的熱情始終都在，

But this conflict of views is kind of interesting.

這兩種相互衝突的觀點其實蠻有趣的。

The writer,

作者

Thomas Frank,

湯瑪斯‧法蘭克

says that

說：

this might be a kind of explanation

有一種解釋可以說明，

why some voters vote

為什麼許多

against their best interests,

像我們這樣的選民

that voters, like a lot of us,

會把票投給那些

assume, that if they hear something that sounds like it's sincere,

聽起來好像很誠懇，

that it's coming from the gut, that it's passionate,

像是發自內心、熱情激昂，好像比較真實的候選人，

that it's more authentic.

而不是投給對自己有最大利益的候選人，

And they'll vote for that.

人們會把票投給那樣的人。

So that, if somebody can fake sincerity,

這麼一來，如果某個人裝的很誠懇，

if they can fake passion,

裝的滿腔熱情，

they stand a better chance

那麼當選的機會

of being selected in that way,

就更大了，

which seems a little dangerous.

這樣似乎有點危險。

I'm saying the two, the passion, the joy,

我的意思是：熱情與喜悅這兩者

are not mutually exclusive.

並不是互相排斥的。

Maybe what the world needs now is for us to realize

或許現在我們最需要的是要瞭解的是，

that we are like the birds.

我們也像鳥兒一樣，

We adapt.

我們適應環境，

We sing.

我們唱歌；

And like the birds, the joy is still there,

而且也像鳥兒一樣，那一份喜悅始終都在，

even though we have changed what we do

就算我們必須改變

to fit the context.

以適應環境。

Thank you very much.

非常謝謝您！

(Applause)

(掌聲)