Hendrik Poinar: Bring back the woolly mammoth!

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

Prevodilac: Miloš Milosavljević Lektor: Mile Živković

When I was a young boy,

Kad sam bio dečak

I used to gaze through the microscope of my father

piljio sam kroz mikroskop mog oca

at the insects in amber that he kept in the house.

u insekte u ćilibaru koje je čuvao u kući.

And they were remarkably well preserved,

I oni su bili izuzetno dobro očuvani,

morphologically just phenomenal.

morfološki fenomenalno.

And we used to imagine that someday,

I zamišljali smo da bi jednog dana

they would actually come to life

mogli da ožive

and they would crawl out of the resin,

i ispuze iz smole

and, if they could, they would fly away.

i ako bi mogli, odlete.

If you had asked me 10 years ago whether or not

Da ste me pitali pre 10 godina

we would ever be able to sequence the genome of extinct animals,

da li ćemo ikada moći da odredimo genom istrebljenih životinja,

I would have told you, it's unlikely.

rekao bih vam da je to malo verovatno.

If you had asked whether or not we would actually be able

Da ste pitali da li bismo mogli

to revive an extinct species,

da oživimo istrebljene vrste,

I would have said, pipe dream.

rekao bih, pusti snovi.

But I'm actually standing here today, amazingly,

Ali danas sam ovde, zapanjujuće,

to tell you that not only is the sequencing

da bih vam rekao da je, ne samo određivanje

of extinct genomes a possibility, actually a modern-day reality,

istrebljenih genoma moguće, u stvari realnost u modernom vremenu,

but the revival of an extinct species is actually within reach,

već je i oživljavanje istrebljenih vrsta nadohvat ruke,

maybe not from the insects in amber --

možda ne insekata u ćilibaru -

in fact, this mosquito was actually used

ovaj komarac je u stvari iskorišćen

for the inspiration for "Jurassic Park" —

kao inspiracija za "Park iz doba jure" -

but from woolly mammoths, the well preserved remains

već od runastih mamuta, dobro očuvanih ostataka

of woolly mammoths in the permafrost.

runastih mamuta iz permafrosta.

Woollies are a particularly interesting,

Oni su posebno interesantni,

quintessential image of the Ice Age.

suštinska slika Ledenog doba.

They were large. They were hairy.

Bili su veliki. Bili su dlakavi.

They had large tusks, and we seem to have

Imali su velike kljove i izgleda da smo

a very deep connection with them, like we do with elephants.

vrlo duboko povezani sa njima, kao što smo i sa slonovima.

Maybe it's because elephants share

Možda je to zato što slonovi imaju

many things in common with us.

mnogo zajedničkog sa nama.

They bury their dead. They educate the next of kin.

Oni sahranjuju svoje mrtve, odgajaju najbliže srodnike.

They have social knits that are very close.

Imaju društvene veze koje su veoma bliske.

Or maybe it's actually because we're bound by deep time,

Ili je to možda zato što smo vezani dugim vremenom,

because elephants, like us, share their origins in Africa

jer slonovi, kao i mi, vode svoje poreklo iz Afrike

some seven million years ago,

od pre nekih sedam miliona godina

and as habitats changed and environments changed,

i kako su se staništa i okruženja menjala,

we actually, like the elephants, migrated out

mi smo se, kao i slonovi, selili

into Europe and Asia.

u Evropu i Aziju.

So the first large mammoth that appears on the scene

Prvi veliki mamut koji se pojavljuje na sceni

is meridionalis, which was standing four meters tall

je meridionalis koji je bio visok 4 metra

weighing about 10 tons, and was a woodland-adapted species

težio oko 10 tona i bio adaptiran na šumovite oblasti

and spread from Western Europe clear across Central Asia,

i rasprostranjen od zapadne Evrope, preko centralne Azije,

across the Bering land bridge

preko Beringovog kopnenog mosta

and into parts of North America.

i u delovima Severne Amerike.

And then, again, as climate changed as it always does,

I onda, ponovo, kako se klima promenila kao što se stalno dešava,

and new habitats opened up,

nova staništa su se otvorila,

we had the arrival of a steppe-adapted species

imali smo dolazak vrste adaptirane na stepu

called trogontherii in Central Asia

zvane trogontherii (stepski mamut) u centralnoj Aziji

pushing meridionalis out into Western Europe.

koja je potisnula meridionalisa u zapadnu Evropu.

And the open grassland savannas of North America

I otvorene travnate savane u Severnoj Americi

opened up, leading to the Columbian mammoth,

su se otvorile vodeći do kolumbijskog mamuta,

a large, hairless species in North America.

velike bezdlake vrste u Severnoj Americi.

And it was really only about 500,000 years later

I u stvari samo oko 500.000 godina kasnije

that we had the arrival of the woolly,

se pojavio runasti mamut,

the one that we all know and love so much,

onaj kog svi znamo i toliko volimo

spreading from an East Beringian point of origin

i širio se od istočno-beringovske tačke nastanka

across Central Asia, again pushing the trogontherii

preko centralne Azije, opet potiskujući stepskog mamuta

out through Central Europe,

ka centralnoj Evropi

and over hundreds of thousands of years

i tokom stotina i hiljada godina

migrating back and forth across the Bering land bridge

migrirajući napred i nazad preko Beringovog kopnenog mosta

during times of glacial peaks

tokom vremena glečerskih vrhunaca

and coming into direct contact

i dolazeći u direktan kontakt

with the Columbian relatives living in the south,

sa kolumbijskim rođacima sa juga

and there they survive over hundreds of thousands of years

i tamo su preživeli stotinama i hiljadama godina

during traumatic climatic shifts.

tokom traumatičnih klimatskih promena.

So there's a highly plastic animal dealing with great transitions

To je vrlo prilagodljiva životinja koja se suočavala sa velikim prelazima

in temperature and environment, and doing very, very well.

u temperaturi i u okruženju i vrlo dobro ih podnosila.

And there they survive on the mainland until about 10,000 years ago,

I tu su oni preživljavali na kopnu sve do pre oko 10.000 godina,

and actually, surprisingly, on the small islands off of Siberia

u stvari, iznenađujuće, na malim ostrvima na obalama Sibira

and Alaska until about 3,000 years ago.

i Aljaske, do pre 3.000 godina.

So Egyptians are building pyramids

Dok Egipćani grade piramide,

and woollies are still living on islands.

runasti mamuti još uvek žive na ostrvima.

And then they disappear.

I onda nestaju.

Like 99 percent of all the animals that have once lived,

Kao i 99 posto svih životinja koje su jednom živele,

they go extinct, likely due to a warming climate

oni su istrebljeni, verovatno zbog klimatskog otopljavanja

and fast-encroaching dense forests

i brzog napredovanja gustih šuma

that are migrating north,

koje su se pomerale ka severu

and also, as the late, great Paul Martin once put it,

i takođe, kao što je pokojni, veliki Pol Martin jednom rekao,

probably Pleistocene overkill,

verovatno prekomernog ubijanja u pleistocenu,

so the large game hunters that took them down.

tako da su ih lovci na veliku divljač istrebili.

Fortunately, we find millions of their remains

Srećom, nalazimo milione njihovih ostataka

strewn across the permafrost buried deep

rasutih po permafrostu zakopane duboko

in Siberia and Alaska, and we can actually go up there

u Sibiru i na Aljasci i možemo da odemo tamo

and actually take them out.

i izvadimo ih.

And the preservation is, again,

I očuvanost je opet,

like those insects in [amber], phenomenal.

kao kod onih insekata u ćilibaru, fenomenalna.

So you have teeth, bones with blood

Imate zube, kosti sa krvlju

which look like blood, you have hair,

koja izgleda kao krv, imate dlake

and you have intact carcasses or heads

i imate netaknuta tela ili glave

which still have brains in them.

koje još uvek imaju mozak.

So the preservation and the survival of DNA

Očuvanje i preživljavanje DNK

depends on many factors, and I have to admit,

zavisi od mnogo faktora i moram priznati

most of which we still don't quite understand,

da većinu i dalje ne razumemo potpuno,

but depending upon when an organism dies

ali u zavisnosti od toga kada organizam umre

and how quickly he's buried, the depth of that burial,

i koliko brzo je pokopan, dubine zakopavanja,

the constancy of the temperature of that burial environment,

konstantnosti temperature u okruženju tog mesta,

will ultimately dictate how long DNA will survive

to će na kraju odrediti koliko dugo će DNK preživeti

over geologically meaningful time frames.

kroz geološki značajne vremenske okvire.

And it's probably surprising to many of you

I verovatno je iznenađujuće mnogima od vas

sitting in this room that it's not the time that matters,

koji sedite u ovoj prostoriji, da nije vreme ono što je važno

it's not the length of preservation,

niti je to dužina čuvanja,

it's the consistency of the temperature of that preservation that matters most.

već je najvažnija postojanost temperature čuvanja.

So if we were to go deep now within the bones

Ako bismo otišli duboko u kosti

and the teeth that actually survived the fossilization process,

i zube koji su preživeli proces fosilizacije,

the DNA which was once intact, tightly wrapped

DNK koja je bila netaknuta, čvrsto omotana

around histone proteins, is now under attack

oko proteina histona, sada je pod napadom

by the bacteria that lived symbiotically with the mammoth

bakterija koje su živele u simbiozi sa mamutom

for years during its lifetime.

godinama u toku njegovog života.

So those bacteria, along with the environmental bacteria,

Tako ove bakterije zajedno sa bakterijama iz okruženja,

free water and oxygen, actually break apart the DNA

slobodnom vodom i vazduhom, u stvari razbijaju DNK

into smaller and smaller and smaller DNA fragments,

na sve manje i manje DNK fragmente

until all you have are fragments that range

sve dok ne ostanu samo fragmenti u opsegu

from 10 base pairs to, in the best case scenarios,

od 10 baznih parova do, u najboljem scenariju,

a few hundred base pairs in length.

nekoliko stotina baznih parova u dužinu.

So most fossils out there in the fossil record

Većina fosila koji su otkriveni

are actually completely devoid of all organic signatures.

su u stvari potpuno oskudni u svim organskim potpisima.

But a few of them actually have DNA fragments

Ali nekoliko njih ima DNK fragmente

that survive for thousands,

koji preživljavaju hiljadama,

even a few millions of years in time.

pa čak i nekoliko miliona godina.

And using state-of-the-art clean room technology,

Koristeći najsavremeniju tehnologiju čiste sobe,

we've devised ways that we can actually pull these DNAs

pronašli smo načine da izdvojimo ove DNK

away from all the rest of the gunk in there,

od ostale prljavštine tamo

and it's not surprising to any of you sitting in the room

i nije iznenađujuće ni za koga od vas koji sedite ovde

that if I take a mammoth bone or a tooth

da ako uzmem kost ili zub mamuta

and I extract its DNA that I'll get mammoth DNA,

i izdvojim njihov DNK, dobiću DNK mamuta,

but I'll also get all the bacteria that once lived with the mammoth,

ali ću dobiti i sve bakterije koje su jednom živele sa mamutom

and, more complicated, I'll get all the DNA

i što je komplikovanije, dobiću sve DNK

that survived in that environment with it,

koje su preživele u tom okruženju,

so the bacteria, the fungi, and so on and so forth.

bakterije, gljive i tako dalje.

Not surprising then again that a mammoth

Nije iznenađujuće, opet, da će mamut

preserved in the permafrost will have something

sačuvan u permafrostu imati

on the order of 50 percent of its DNA being mammoth,

otprilike 50 posto mamutske DNK

whereas something like the Columbian mammoth,

dok će kolumbijski mamut

living in a temperature and buried in a temperate environment

koji je živeo i zakopan je u umerenim temperaturnim uslovima

over its laying-in will only have 3 to 10 percent endogenous.

biti samo 3 do 10 posto endogen.

But we've come up with very clever ways

Ali smislili smo vrlo domišljate načine

that we can actually discriminate, capture and discriminate,

da odvojimo, uhvatimo i odvojimo

the mammoth from the non-mammoth DNA,

mamutsku od nemamutske DNK

and with the advances in high-throughput sequencing,

i sa prednostima visoko propustljivog sekvenciranja

we can actually pull out and bioinformatically

možemo da izvučemo i bioinformatički

re-jig all these small mammoth fragments

ponovo sastavimo sve ove male fragmente mamuta

and place them onto a backbone

i stavimo ih na osnovu

of an Asian or African elephant chromosome.

hromozoma azijskog ili afričkog slona.

And so by doing that, we can actually get all the little points

I time u stvari možemo da dobijemo sve male tačke

that discriminate between a mammoth and an Asian elephant,

koje prave razliku između mamuta i azijskog slona

and what do we know, then, about a mammoth?

i šta znamo onda o mamutu?

Well, the mammoth genome is almost at full completion,

Mamutov genom je skoro potpuno dovršen

and we know that it's actually really big. It's mammoth.

i znamo da je veoma veliki. Mamutski.

So a hominid genome is about three billion base pairs,

Genom hominida je oko 3 milijarde baznih parova

but an elephant and mammoth genome

ali genom slona i mamuta

is about two billion base pairs larger, and most of that

je za oko 2 milijarde baznih parova veći i najveći njegov deo

is composed of small, repetitive DNAs

je sastavljen od malih, ponavljajućih DNK

that make it very difficult to actually re-jig the entire structure of the genome.

što čini veoma teškim ponovno sastavljanje cele strukture genoma.

So having this information allows us to answer

Imajući ovu informaciju, možemo da odgovorimo

one of the interesting relationship questions

na jedno od interesantnih pitanja odnosa

between mammoths and their living relatives,

između mamuta i njihovih živih rođaka,

the African and the Asian elephant,

afričkog i azijskog slona,

all of which shared an ancestor seven million years ago,

koji svi dele zajedničkog predaka od pre sedam miliona godina,

but the genome of the mammoth shows it to share

ali genom mamuta deli

a most recent common ancestor with Asian elephants

skorijeg predaka sa azijskim slonovima

about six million years ago,

pre šest miliona godina,

so slightly closer to the Asian elephant.

znači malo bliže azijskom slonu.

With advances in ancient DNA technology,

Sa napretkom u tehnologiji drevne DNK

we can actually now start to begin to sequence

sad možemo da počnemo da sekvenciramo

the genomes of those other extinct mammoth forms that I mentioned,

genome onih drugih istrebljenih oblika mamuta koje sam pomenuo

and I just wanted to talk about two of them,

i samo sam hteo da govorim o dva,

the woolly and the Columbian mammoth,

o runastom i kolumbijskom mamutu,

both of which were living very close to each other

koji su živeli veoma blizu jedan drugoga

during glacial peaks,

tokom glečerskih vrhunaca,

so when the glaciers were massive in North America,

kad su glečeri bili veliki u Severnoj Americi

the woollies were pushed into these subglacial ecotones,

runasti mamuti su potisnuti u subglečerske ekotone

and came into contact with the relatives living to the south,

i došli su u dodir sa rođacima koji žive na jugu

and there they shared refugia,

i tamo su delili pribežište

and a little bit more than the refugia, it turns out.

i, kako se ispostavilo, malo više od pribežišta.

It looks like they were interbreeding.

Izgleda da su se međusobno sparivali.

And that this is not an uncommon feature

I ovo nije bila neuobičajena karakteristika

in Proboscideans, because it turns out

među surlašima, jer se ispostavilo

that large savanna male elephants will outcompete

da će veliki mužjaci slona iz savane pobediti

the smaller forest elephants for their females.

manje šumske slonove u borbi za njihove ženke.

So large, hairless Columbians

Tako da veliki bezdlaki kolumbijski mamuti

outcompeting the smaller male woollies.

pobeđuju manje mužjake runastog mamuta.

It reminds me a bit of high school, unfortunately.

Podseća me pomalo na srednju školu, nažalost.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So this is not trivial, given the idea that we want

Ovo nije beznačajno, imajući u vidu ideju da želimo

to revive extinct species, because it turns out

da oživimo istrebljene vrste, jer se ispostavilo

that an African and an Asian elephant

da afrički i azijski slon

can actually interbreed and have live young,

u stvari mogu da se međusobno razmnožavaju i imaju žive mladunce

and this has actually occurred by accident in a zoo

i ovo se stvarno dogodilo slučajno u zoološkom vrtu

in Chester, U.K., in 1978.

u Česteru, u Velikoj Britaniji 1978.

So that means that we can actually take Asian elephant chromosomes,

To znači da možemo da uzmemo hromozome azijskog slona,

modify them into all those positions we've actually now

modifikujemo ih u sve ove položaje koje smo sada

been able to discriminate with the mammoth genome,

mogli da izdvojimo sa genomom mamuta,

we can put that into an enucleated cell,

možemo da stavimo to u ćeliju sa uklonjenim jedrom,

differentiate that into a stem cell,

diferenciramo to u matičnu ćeliju,

subsequently differentiate that maybe into a sperm,

posle toga diferenciramo to možda u spermu,

artificially inseminate an Asian elephant egg,

veštački oplodimo jaje azijskog slona

and over a long and arduous procedure,

i dugom i napornom procedurom

actually bring back something that looks like this.

povratimo nešto što izgleda ovako.

Now, this wouldn't be an exact replica,

Ovo ne bi bila tačna replika

because the short DNA fragments that I told you about

jer kratki fragmenti DNK o kojima sam vam pričao

will prevent us from building the exact structure,

će nas sprečiti da napravimo tačnu strukturu,

but it would make something that looked and felt

ali bi se napravilo nešto što izgleda

very much like a woolly mammoth did.

vrlo slično kao što je izgledao runasti mamut.

Now, when I bring up this with my friends,

Kada ovo pomenem u razgovoru sa prijateljima,

we often talk about, well, where would you put it?

obično pričamo o tome gde biste ga stavili?

Where are you going to house a mammoth?

Gde ćete smestiti mamuta?

There's no climates or habitats suitable.

Nema pogodnih klimata ni staništa.

Well, that's not actually the case.

Pa, to nije sasvim tačno.

It turns out that there are swaths of habitat

Izgleda da ima puno staništa

in the north of Siberia and Yukon

na severu Sibira i Jukona

that actually could house a mammoth.

gde bi mogao da se nastani mamut.

Remember, this was a highly plastic animal

Sećate se, ovo je vrlo prilagodljiva životinja

that lived over tremendous climate variation.

koja je preživela ogromne varijacije klime.

So this landscape would be easily able to house it,

Tako da bi u ovom predelu mogao lako da se nastani

and I have to admit that there [is] a part of the child in me,

i moram priznati da nema detinjeg dela u meni,

the boy in me, that would love to see

dečaka u meni koji bi voleo da vidi

these majestic creatures walk across the permafrost

ova veličanstvena stvorenja kako šetaju po permafrostu

of the north once again, but I do have to admit

severa još jednom, već moram priznati

that part of the adult in me sometimes wonders

da deo odrasle osobe u meni se ponekad pita

whether or not we should.

da li bi trebalo ili ne.

Thank you very much.

Hvala puno.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Ryan Phelan: Don't go away.

Rajan Felan: Nemojte da idete.

You've left us with a question.

Ostavili ste nas s pitanjem.

I'm sure everyone is asking this. When you say, "Should we?"

Sigurna sam da se svi pitaju ovo. Kad kažete: "Da li bi trebalo?"

it feels like you're reticent there,

čini se da ste uzdržani,

and yet you've given us a vision of it being so possible.

a ipak ste nam dali viziju da je to moguće.

What's your reticence?

Zašto ste uzdržani?

Hendrik Poinar: I don't think it's reticence.

Hendrik Poinar: Ne mislim da je to uzdržanost.

I think it's just that we have to think very deeply

Samo mislim da treba da duboko razmislimo

about the implications, ramifications of our actions,

o implikacijama, grananju naših dela

and so as long as we have good, deep discussion

i dok god imamo dobru, duboku diskusiju

like we're having now, I think

kao što je imamo sada, mislim

we can come to a very good solution as to why to do it.

da možemo da dođemo do vrlo dobrog rešenja zašto da to uradimo.

But I just want to make sure that we spend time

Ali ja samo hoću da se uverim da pre toga provodimo vreme

thinking about why we're doing it first.

RP: Perfect. Perfect answer. Thank you very much, Hendrik.

razmišljajući o tome zašto to radimo.

R.P.: Savršeno. Savršen odgovor. Hvala puno Hendriče.

HP: Thank you. (Applause)

H.P.: Hvala vam. (Aplauz)