Hendrik Poinar: Bring back the woolly mammoth!

243,131 views ・ 2013-05-30

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00:00
Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast
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譯者: Shengwei Cai 審譯者: Anny Chung
00:12
When I was a young boy,
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當我還小的時候
00:14
I used to gaze through the microscope of my father
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常常透過父親房間裡的顯微鏡
00:17
at the insects in amber that he kept in the house.
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觀察琥珀裡的昆蟲
00:20
And they were remarkably well preserved,
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牠們保存得非常完好
00:23
morphologically just phenomenal.
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其完好程度簡直令人驚奇
00:25
And we used to imagine that someday,
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而且我們過去常想像
00:27
they would actually come to life
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是不是有一天牠們會甦醒
00:29
and they would crawl out of the resin,
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然後會從樹脂裡爬出來
00:31
and, if they could, they would fly away.
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如果牠們能飛的話 牠們是不是會飛走
00:33
If you had asked me 10 years ago whether or not
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如果十年前你問我
00:36
we would ever be able to sequence the genome of extinct animals,
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我們能不能把滅絕動物的基因組排序
00:39
I would have told you, it's unlikely.
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我會告訴你,不太可能
00:42
If you had asked whether or not we would actually be able
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如果你問我們能不能
00:43
to revive an extinct species,
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使滅絕的生物復活
00:46
I would have said, pipe dream.
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我會說,做白日夢吧
00:47
But I'm actually standing here today, amazingly,
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吃驚的是,今天我實實在在的站在這兒
00:50
to tell you that not only is the sequencing
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告訴大家,絕種動物基因組排序是可能的
00:52
of extinct genomes a possibility, actually a modern-day reality,
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事實上這已成為現實
00:56
but the revival of an extinct species is actually within reach,
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復活滅絕動物的可能性已是能力所及
01:00
maybe not from the insects in amber --
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但可能不是復活琥珀裡的昆蟲
01:02
in fact, this mosquito was actually used
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- - 這隻蚊子曾是「侏羅紀公園」的靈感來源 - -
01:04
for the inspiration for "Jurassic Park" —
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- - 這隻蚊子曾是「侏羅紀公園」的靈感來源 - -
01:06
but from woolly mammoths, the well preserved remains
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而是通過凍土裡保存完好的殘骸
01:09
of woolly mammoths in the permafrost.
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復活長毛象
01:11
Woollies are a particularly interesting,
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長毛象是冰河時期特別有趣、特別典型的象徵
01:13
quintessential image of the Ice Age.
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長毛像是冰河時期特別有趣、特別典型的象徵
01:16
They were large. They were hairy.
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牠們體型巨大,身披長毛
01:18
They had large tusks, and we seem to have
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有很大的長牙
01:20
a very deep connection with them, like we do with elephants.
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我們好像和牠們關係密切 就像我們和大象一樣
01:22
Maybe it's because elephants share
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可能因為大象和我們
01:25
many things in common with us.
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有許多共同點
01:27
They bury their dead. They educate the next of kin.
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比如埋葬死者,教育後代
01:30
They have social knits that are very close.
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有很緊密的社交聯繫
01:33
Or maybe it's actually because we're bound by deep time,
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或者可能因為我們在遠古時期就有聯繫
01:35
because elephants, like us, share their origins in Africa
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因為大象和我們人類一樣
01:39
some seven million years ago,
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七百多萬年前起源於非洲
01:41
and as habitats changed and environments changed,
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隨著棲地和環境變化
01:44
we actually, like the elephants, migrated out
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我們人類和大象一樣
01:47
into Europe and Asia.
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遷移到歐洲和亞洲
01:50
So the first large mammoth that appears on the scene
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遠古出現的第一種猛獁象是南方猛獁
01:52
is meridionalis, which was standing four meters tall
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身高四米,體重約十噸
01:56
weighing about 10 tons, and was a woodland-adapted species
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適宜在森林中生存
01:59
and spread from Western Europe clear across Central Asia,
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分佈在西歐地區、中亞地區
02:02
across the Bering land bridge
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並跨過白令陸橋
02:05
and into parts of North America.
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到達北美部分地區
02:07
And then, again, as climate changed as it always does,
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之後,隨著氣候再次變化
02:10
and new habitats opened up,
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新棲地出現
02:11
we had the arrival of a steppe-adapted species
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便有了適宜在草原生存的種類
02:14
called trogontherii in Central Asia
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即中亞地區的草原猛獁
02:16
pushing meridionalis out into Western Europe.
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牠們把南方猛獁排擠到了西歐地區
02:19
And the open grassland savannas of North America
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北美廣大的稀樹大草原出現後
02:21
opened up, leading to the Columbian mammoth,
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便有了哥倫比亞猛獁
02:23
a large, hairless species in North America.
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牠們體型巨大,沒有長毛,分佈在北美
02:26
And it was really only about 500,000 years later
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大約在五十萬年之後
02:29
that we had the arrival of the woolly,
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我們非常喜愛和了解的長毛猛獁才出現
02:31
the one that we all know and love so much,
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我們非常喜愛和了解的長毛猛獁才出現
02:33
spreading from an East Beringian point of origin
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牠們由白令海峽分布至中亞區域
02:37
across Central Asia, again pushing the trogontherii
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又把草原猛獁排擠到了中歐地區
02:40
out through Central Europe,
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又把草原猛獁排擠到了中歐地區
02:41
and over hundreds of thousands of years
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在數百萬年過程中
02:43
migrating back and forth across the Bering land bridge
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牠們反覆在冰河時期
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during times of glacial peaks
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橫跨白令陸橋
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and coming into direct contact
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和生活在南方的哥倫比亞猛獁
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with the Columbian relatives living in the south,
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有了直接聯繫
02:53
and there they survive over hundreds of thousands of years
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牠們在那兒生存了數百萬年
02:56
during traumatic climatic shifts.
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忍受嚴峻的氣候突變
02:58
So there's a highly plastic animal dealing with great transitions
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所以這種生存能力極強的動物
03:03
in temperature and environment, and doing very, very well.
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對溫度和環境的劇烈轉變 適應得非常好
03:06
And there they survive on the mainland until about 10,000 years ago,
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牠們在內陸生活直到一萬年前
03:10
and actually, surprisingly, on the small islands off of Siberia
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出人意料的,約三千年前
03:13
and Alaska until about 3,000 years ago.
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在西伯利亞外海的小島上 仍有它們的足跡
03:15
So Egyptians are building pyramids
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當埃及人在建金字塔時
03:17
and woollies are still living on islands.
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長毛象仍生活在海島上
03:20
And then they disappear.
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之後牠們就消失了
03:21
Like 99 percent of all the animals that have once lived,
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正如世界上 99% 動物一樣
03:23
they go extinct, likely due to a warming climate
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牠們也滅絕了
03:27
and fast-encroaching dense forests
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可能是由於氣溫升高
03:29
that are migrating north,
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和迅速往北覆蓋的茂密的森林
03:30
and also, as the late, great Paul Martin once put it,
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同樣可能是像已故保羅·馬丁曾說的那樣
03:33
probably Pleistocene overkill,
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由於更新世時的人類獵殺
03:35
so the large game hunters that took them down.
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所以是大型動物捕殺者讓牠們滅絕了
03:38
Fortunately, we find millions of their remains
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我們幸運地發現了許多殘骸
03:40
strewn across the permafrost buried deep
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深埋在西伯利亞和阿拉斯加的凍土中
03:43
in Siberia and Alaska, and we can actually go up there
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我們可以到那些地方去
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and actually take them out.
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把它們挖出來
03:48
And the preservation is, again,
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其保存完好程度
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like those insects in [amber], phenomenal.
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像琥珀裡的昆蟲一樣令人驚奇
03:52
So you have teeth, bones with blood
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有牙齒,帶血的骨頭
03:55
which look like blood, you have hair,
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至少看起來還像血 還有毛髮
03:57
and you have intact carcasses or heads
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而且有完整的屍體和頭顱
03:59
which still have brains in them.
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頭顱內仍有腦髓
04:02
So the preservation and the survival of DNA
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其保存完好程度和 DNA 的存活
04:04
depends on many factors, and I have to admit,
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取決於很多方面,而我必須承認
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most of which we still don't quite understand,
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其中仍有很多我們不理解
04:08
but depending upon when an organism dies
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但當生物體死亡時
04:11
and how quickly he's buried, the depth of that burial,
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其被埋葬的速度、深度
04:15
the constancy of the temperature of that burial environment,
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埋葬環境的氣溫穩定度
04:18
will ultimately dictate how long DNA will survive
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會從根本上決定 DNA
04:21
over geologically meaningful time frames.
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在地質學時間範疇內 存活的時間長短
04:24
And it's probably surprising to many of you
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可能會令在座各位感到意外的是
04:25
sitting in this room that it's not the time that matters,
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其實埋葬年代並不重要
04:29
it's not the length of preservation,
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保存時間長短也不重要
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it's the consistency of the temperature of that preservation that matters most.
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最重要的是保存環境的氣溫穩定性
04:34
So if we were to go deep now within the bones
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如果我們深入研究
04:37
and the teeth that actually survived the fossilization process,
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在石化過程中倖存的骨頭和牙齒
04:40
the DNA which was once intact, tightly wrapped
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曾被組織蛋白緊緊包裹著的 DNA
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around histone proteins, is now under attack
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曾被組織蛋白緊緊包裹著的 DNA
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by the bacteria that lived symbiotically with the mammoth
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現在面臨猛獁體內的共生細菌攻擊
04:49
for years during its lifetime.
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現在面臨猛獁體內的共生細菌攻擊
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So those bacteria, along with the environmental bacteria,
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所以這些細菌、環境中的細菌
04:54
free water and oxygen, actually break apart the DNA
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游離水和氧氣把 DNA 分裂成細小碎片
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into smaller and smaller and smaller DNA fragments,
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游離水和氧氣把 DNA 分裂成細小碎片
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until all you have are fragments that range
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這些碎片裡最小的是10 鹼基對
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from 10 base pairs to, in the best case scenarios,
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在最好的情況下
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a few hundred base pairs in length.
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可能有長度為幾百鹼基對的碎片
05:07
So most fossils out there in the fossil record
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所以化石記錄裡的大多數化石
05:10
are actually completely devoid of all organic signatures.
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都完全缺乏有機特徵
05:12
But a few of them actually have DNA fragments
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但仍有一些 DNA 碎片
05:15
that survive for thousands,
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存活了上千年
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even a few millions of years in time.
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甚至上百萬年
05:20
And using state-of-the-art clean room technology,
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通過最先進的無菌科技
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we've devised ways that we can actually pull these DNAs
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我們已經找出了幾種
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away from all the rest of the gunk in there,
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可以從殘骸中萃取出 DNA 的方法
05:28
and it's not surprising to any of you sitting in the room
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而且,在座應沒有人會感到意外
05:30
that if I take a mammoth bone or a tooth
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即使我能在猛獁象骨頭或牙齒裡
05:32
and I extract its DNA that I'll get mammoth DNA,
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提取出猛獁象 DNA
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but I'll also get all the bacteria that once lived with the mammoth,
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也會隨之提取出所有和猛獁共生的細菌
05:39
and, more complicated, I'll get all the DNA
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再麻煩的是,我還會提取出
05:41
that survived in that environment with it,
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當時環境中所有存活下來的 DNA
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so the bacteria, the fungi, and so on and so forth.
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像是細菌、真菌等等
05:46
Not surprising then again that a mammoth
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所以保存在凍土裡的猛獁象
05:49
preserved in the permafrost will have something
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僅有 50% 屬於猛獁 DNA
05:51
on the order of 50 percent of its DNA being mammoth,
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同樣不令人意外
05:53
whereas something like the Columbian mammoth,
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而哥倫比亞猛獁
05:55
living in a temperature and buried in a temperate environment
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生活及埋葬的環境屬溫帶氣候
05:58
over its laying-in will only have 3 to 10 percent endogenous.
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這讓其 DNA 只有 3% 到 10% 的內生性
06:02
But we've come up with very clever ways
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但我們已經找到一些巧妙的方法
06:04
that we can actually discriminate, capture and discriminate,
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藉此我們可以捕捉和區分
06:07
the mammoth from the non-mammoth DNA,
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猛獁 DNA 和非猛獁 DNA
06:09
and with the advances in high-throughput sequencing,
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並經由最先進的高通量基因組測序技術
06:12
we can actually pull out and bioinformatically
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提出這些猛獁 DNA 碎片
06:15
re-jig all these small mammoth fragments
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利用生物資訊技術
06:18
and place them onto a backbone
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將之重新排列於
06:20
of an Asian or African elephant chromosome.
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亞洲象或非洲象的基因組骨幹上
06:23
And so by doing that, we can actually get all the little points
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這樣我們就能得到
06:25
that discriminate between a mammoth and an Asian elephant,
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所有區分猛獁象和亞洲象的基因變異
06:28
and what do we know, then, about a mammoth?
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所以我們對猛獁象了解多少呢?
06:31
Well, the mammoth genome is almost at full completion,
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猛獁象基因組快趨於完整了
06:34
and we know that it's actually really big. It's mammoth.
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我們知道這個基因組非常巨大
06:38
So a hominid genome is about three billion base pairs,
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原始人類的基因組大概有 30 億鹼基對
06:41
but an elephant and mammoth genome
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但是大象或猛獁象的鹼基對
06:42
is about two billion base pairs larger, and most of that
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比人類基因組多出 20 億鹼基對
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is composed of small, repetitive DNAs
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大多數是重複的短 DNA 片段
06:48
that make it very difficult to actually re-jig the entire structure of the genome.
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因此重新排列這個基因組結構非常困難
06:52
So having this information allows us to answer
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這些資訊讓我們能夠回答
06:55
one of the interesting relationship questions
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一個跟猛獁象與其現代近親
06:57
between mammoths and their living relatives,
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非洲象和亞洲象
06:59
the African and the Asian elephant,
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有關的有趣問題了
07:01
all of which shared an ancestor seven million years ago,
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七百萬年前,牠們有一個共同的祖先
07:04
but the genome of the mammoth shows it to share
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但是猛獁的基因組顯示
07:06
a most recent common ancestor with Asian elephants
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猛獁和亞洲象最近的共同祖先
07:09
about six million years ago,
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是在六百萬年前
07:11
so slightly closer to the Asian elephant.
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所以猛獁和亞洲象比較親近
07:13
With advances in ancient DNA technology,
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拜近來純熟的古 DNA 技術之賜
07:16
we can actually now start to begin to sequence
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我們現在可以開始排序
07:18
the genomes of those other extinct mammoth forms that I mentioned,
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那些其他已滅絕猛獁的基因組
07:21
and I just wanted to talk about two of them,
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我只想說其中兩種
07:23
the woolly and the Columbian mammoth,
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長毛象和哥倫比亞猛獁
07:25
both of which were living very close to each other
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這兩種猛獁在冰河時期生活得非常近
07:27
during glacial peaks,
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這兩種猛獁在冰河時期生活得非常近
07:30
so when the glaciers were massive in North America,
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當北美的冰河規模非常大時
07:32
the woollies were pushed into these subglacial ecotones,
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長毛象被迫遷徙到冰河過渡帶
07:35
and came into contact with the relatives living to the south,
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開始和生活在南方的親戚接觸
07:38
and there they shared refugia,
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共同分享避難處
07:40
and a little bit more than the refugia, it turns out.
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後來發現,牠們不只分享避難處
07:42
It looks like they were interbreeding.
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牠們並與南方的猛瑪雜交
07:45
And that this is not an uncommon feature
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這對長鼻目動物來說不稀奇
07:47
in Proboscideans, because it turns out
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因為後來發現
07:48
that large savanna male elephants will outcompete
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大型熱帶草原雄象在追求雌象時
07:51
the smaller forest elephants for their females.
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會打敗體型較小的叢林象
07:54
So large, hairless Columbians
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所以體型巨大且沒毛的哥倫比亞猛獁
07:57
outcompeting the smaller male woollies.
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打敗了體型較小的雄性長毛象
07:59
It reminds me a bit of high school, unfortunately.
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這讓我想起了我的高中生活
08:01
(Laughter)
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(笑聲)
08:04
So this is not trivial, given the idea that we want
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假如我們想要復活滅絕的物種
08:06
to revive extinct species, because it turns out
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這就很重要了
08:08
that an African and an Asian elephant
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因為亞洲象和非洲象
08:10
can actually interbreed and have live young,
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能通過雜交繁衍後代
08:12
and this has actually occurred by accident in a zoo
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1978 年在英國切斯特的一個動物園裡
08:14
in Chester, U.K., in 1978.
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曾意外發生過這種事
08:18
So that means that we can actually take Asian elephant chromosomes,
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這意味著我們可以用亞洲象染色體
08:21
modify them into all those positions we've actually now
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並把它於我們發現的基因位置
08:23
been able to discriminate with the mammoth genome,
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修改成猛獁基因組
08:25
we can put that into an enucleated cell,
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然後放到無核細胞中
08:28
differentiate that into a stem cell,
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讓它分化為幹細胞
08:30
subsequently differentiate that maybe into a sperm,
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可能最後會分化為精子
08:33
artificially inseminate an Asian elephant egg,
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再人工植入亞洲象卵子
08:35
and over a long and arduous procedure,
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經過漫長艱苦的過程後
08:38
actually bring back something that looks like this.
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就會產生一個這樣的動物
08:42
Now, this wouldn't be an exact replica,
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這並不會是一個準確的複製長毛象
08:43
because the short DNA fragments that I told you about
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因為我剛才提到的 DNA 重複片段
08:46
will prevent us from building the exact structure,
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會妨礙我們創造一個精確的複製品
08:48
but it would make something that looked and felt
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但是看起來和感覺起來
08:50
very much like a woolly mammoth did.
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會很像一個真實的長毛象
08:53
Now, when I bring up this with my friends,
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當我向朋友們討論這個的時候
08:56
we often talk about, well, where would you put it?
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我們總談到,那你把牠放哪裡啊?
08:58
Where are you going to house a mammoth?
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你會讓一頭猛獁象住哪裡?
09:00
There's no climates or habitats suitable.
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根本沒有合適的氣候和棲地
09:02
Well, that's not actually the case.
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其實並非如此
09:04
It turns out that there are swaths of habitat
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因為在西伯利亞北部和育空地區
09:06
in the north of Siberia and Yukon
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有足夠的合適棲地
09:09
that actually could house a mammoth.
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能夠提供猛獁生活
09:10
Remember, this was a highly plastic animal
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請記住,猛獁是適應力極強的動物
09:12
that lived over tremendous climate variation.
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牠們經歷過驚人的氣候變化
09:15
So this landscape would be easily able to house it,
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所以這片地區會很適宜牠們生活
09:18
and I have to admit that there [is] a part of the child in me,
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我必須承認,我內心中的小男孩
09:21
the boy in me, that would love to see
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我必須承認,我內心中的小男孩
09:23
these majestic creatures walk across the permafrost
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渴望看到這偉大的生物
09:26
of the north once again, but I do have to admit
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再次行走在北方的凍土上
09:28
that part of the adult in me sometimes wonders
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但是我必須承認,成熟的我有時會想
09:30
whether or not we should.
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我們到底是不是該把牠們復活
09:33
Thank you very much.
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謝謝
09:34
(Applause)
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(掌聲)
09:39
Ryan Phelan: Don't go away.
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Ryan Phelan: 先別走
09:41
You've left us with a question.
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你給我們留下了一個疑問
09:43
I'm sure everyone is asking this. When you say, "Should we?"
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我保證大家都會問這個問題 當你說「該不該」時
09:46
it feels like you're reticent there,
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我感覺你有所保留
09:49
and yet you've given us a vision of it being so possible.
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但你已告訴我們復活猛獁的可能性
09:52
What's your reticence?
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你在遲疑什麼?
09:53
Hendrik Poinar: I don't think it's reticence.
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H. Poinar: 我不認為那是遲疑
09:54
I think it's just that we have to think very deeply
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我覺得我們必須仔細考慮
09:58
about the implications, ramifications of our actions,
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我們這個行為的後果和影響
10:01
and so as long as we have good, deep discussion
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只要我們經過真誠深刻的討論之後
10:03
like we're having now, I think
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就像我們現在這樣,我覺得
10:05
we can come to a very good solution as to why to do it.
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我們就能找到一個解決方案
10:08
But I just want to make sure that we spend time
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但是我只是想確定我們得先花時間
10:09
thinking about why we're doing it first.
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考慮我們復活猛瑪的理由
10:11
RP: Perfect. Perfect answer. Thank you very much, Hendrik.
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RP: 完美的答案 謝謝,Hendrik
10:14
HP: Thank you. (Applause)
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HP: 謝謝 (掌聲)
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