Dangerous memes | Dan Dennett

Translator: Miha Pelko Reviewer: Tjasa Vrhovnik

How many Creationists do we have in the room?

Koliko kreacionistov imamo v sobi?

Probably none. I think we're all Darwinians.

Verjetno nobenega. Verjetno smo vsi pristaši Darwina.

And yet many Darwinians are anxious, a little uneasy --

Pa vseeno so mnogi živčni, rahlo jim je neprijetno,

would like to see some limits on just how far the Darwinism goes.

radi bi videli nekaj omejitev, do kod deluje darvinizem.

It's all right.

Že v redu.

You know spiderwebs? Sure, they are products of evolution.

Poznate pajkove mreže? Seveda, te so produkt evolucije.

The World Wide Web? Not so sure.

Medmrežje? Nismo več prepričani.

Beaver dams, yes. Hoover Dam, no.

Jezovi bobrov, ja. Jez Hoover v Ameriki, ne.

What do they think it is that prevents the products of human ingenuity

Kaj mislijo, da preprečuje rezultatom človeške bistroumnosti,

from being themselves, fruits of the tree of life,

da bi postali sadeži drevesa življenja,

and hence, in some sense, obeying evolutionary rules?

in tako na nek način sledili evolucijskim pravilom?

And yet people are interestingly resistant

In kljub temu se ljudje upirajo ideji,

to the idea of applying evolutionary thinking to thinking -- to our thinking.

da bi evolucijsko razmišljanje uporabili za razmišljanje o razmišljanju.

And so I'm going to talk a little bit about that,

Govoril bom torej o tem

keeping in mind that we have a lot on the program here.

in imel v mislih, da sledi še veliko predavanj.

So you're out in the woods, or you're out in the pasture,

Si v gozdu ali na pašniku

and you see this ant crawling up this blade of grass.

in vidiš mravljo, kako leze proti vrhu travniškega lista.

It climbs up to the top, and it falls,

Spleza na vrh in pade,

and it climbs, and it falls, and it climbs --

in spet spleza, in pade, in spleza --

trying to stay at the very top of the blade of grass.

poizkuša obstati na samem vrhu trave.

What is this ant doing? What is this in aid of?

Kaj počne mravlja? Čemu je to dobro?

What goals is this ant trying to achieve by climbing this blade of grass?

Kaj hoče doseči, s tem da pleza na vrh travniškega lista?

What's in it for the ant?

Kaj ima od tega?

And the answer is: nothing. There's nothing in it for the ant.

In odgovor je: nič. Nič nima od tega.

Well then, why is it doing this?

Ampak zakaj potem to počne?

Is it just a fluke?

A je okužena z virusom?

Yeah, it's just a fluke. It's a lancet fluke.

Ja, zelo podobno. Kriv je metljaj.

It's a little brain worm.

To je mali možganski črv.

It's a parasitic brain worm that has to get into the stomach of a sheep or a cow

Parazitski možganski črv, ki mora priti v želodec ovce ali krave,

in order to continue its life cycle.

da bi nadaljeval svoj življenjski cikel.

Salmon swim upstream to get to their spawning grounds,

Lososi plavajo proti toku, da pridejo do prostora za drstenje,

and lancet flukes commandeer a passing ant,

in metljaji si prisvojijo mimoidočo mravljo,

crawl into its brain, and drive it up a blade of grass like an all-terrain vehicle.

splezajo v njene možgane in jo vozijo na vrh travnatega lista kot terensko vozilo.

So there's nothing in it for the ant.

Mravlja torej nima nič od tega.

The ant's brain has been hijacked by a parasite that infects the brain,

Parazit je ugrabil njene možgane,

inducing suicidal behavior.

in jo prisilil v tovrstno vedenje.

Pretty scary.

Strašljivo.

Well, does anything like that happen with human beings?

Se kaj podobnega dogaja ljudem?

This is all on behalf of a cause other than one's own genetic fitness, of course.

Kaj takega, kar ni v prid lastnemu genetskemu napredku, pač pa nečemu drugemu...

Well, it may already have occurred to you

Verjetno ste že slišali,

that Islam means "surrender," or "submission of self-interest to the will of Allah."

da islam pomeni "vdajo" ali "predajo lastnih interesov volji Alaha."

Well, it's ideas -- not worms -- that hijack our brains.

Torej, ideje so tiste -- ne črvi -- ki ugrabljajo naše možgane.

Now, am I saying that a sizable minority of the world's population

Ali pravim, da ima znatna manjšina človeštva

has had their brain hijacked by parasitic ideas?

ugrabljene možgane s strani parazitskih idej?

No, it's worse than that.

Ne. Huje je.

Most people have.

Večina ljudi jih ima.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

There are a lot of ideas to die for.

Veliko idej je, za katere se umira.

Freedom, if you're from New Hampshire.

Svoboda, če si z New Hampshire-a.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Justice. Truth. Communism.

Pravica. Resnica. Komunizem.

Many people have laid down their lives for communism,

Veliko ljudi je izgubilo življenje za komunizem

and many have laid down their lives for capitalism.

in veliko za kapitalizem.

And many for Catholicism. And many for Islam.

In veliko za katolištvo. In veliko za islam.

These are just a few of the ideas that are to die for.

To je samo nekaj od idej, za katere se umira.

They're infectious.

So nalezljive.

Yesterday, Amory Lovins spoke about "infectious repititis."

Včeraj je Amory Lovins govoril o "nalezljivem ponavljanitisu."

It was a term of abuse, in effect.

To je izraz za izkoriščanje, seveda.

This is unthinking engineering.

Gre za nerazmišljujoče inženirstvo.

Well, most of the cultural spread that goes on

Večina kulturne aktivnosti, ki se širi,

is not brilliant, new, out-of-the-box thinking.

ni briljantno, novo, drugačno razmišljanje.

It's "infectious repetitis,"

Je nalezjivo ponavljalstvo.

and we might as well try to have a theory of what's going on when that happens

In ni razloga, da ne bi imeli teorije o tem,

so that we can understand the conditions of infection.

da lahko razumemo stanje te infekcije.

Hosts work hard to spread these ideas to others.

Gostitelji se močno trudijo, da bi razširili te ideje na druge.

I myself am a philosopher, and one of our occupational hazards

Jaz sem filozof in ena naših poklicnih nevarnosti je,

is that people ask us what the meaning of life is.

da te ljudje sprašujejo, kaj je smisel življenja.

And you have to have a bumper sticker,

In potrebuješ nek standarden odgovor,

you know. You have to have a statement.

saj razumete, neko pripravljeno izjavo.

So, this is mine.

Ta je moja:

The secret of happiness is: Find something more important than you are

Skrivnost sreče je: najdi nekaj bolj pomembnega od sebe

and dedicate your life to it.

in temu posveti svoje življenje.

Most of us -- now that the "Me Decade" is well in the past --

Večina nas -- zdaj ko je "desetletje Jaza" za nami --

now we actually do this.

to dejansko počnemo.

One set of ideas or another

Tak ali drugačen skupek idej

have simply replaced our biological imperatives in our own lives.

je preprosto zamenjal naše biološke obveze v življenju.

This is what our summum bonum is.

To je sedaj naš summum bonum (najvišje dobro).

It's not maximizing the number of grandchildren we have.

To ni več maksimiziranje števila vnukov.

Now, this is a profound biological effect.

To ima bistven biološki učinek.

It's the subordination of genetic interest to other interests.

Genetske koristi so podrejene drugim interesom.

And no other species does anything at all like it.

Nobena druga vrsta ne počne ničesar podobnega.

Well, how are we going to think about this?

Torej, kako bomo razmišljali o tem?

It is, on the one hand, a biological effect, and a very large one.

Na eni strani ima to biološki učinek in to zelo velikega.

Unmistakable.

Brez dvoma.

Now, what theories do we want to use to look at this?

Torej, s katerimi teorijami bi lahko to razlagali?

Well, many theories. But how could something tie them together?

Z veliko teorijami. Pa bi jih lahko morda združili skupaj?

The idea of replicating ideas;

Ideja o kopiranju idej;

ideas that replicate by passing from brain to brain.

ideje, ki se kopirajo ob prenosu iz možgan v možgane.

Richard Dawkins, whom you'll be hearing later in the day, invented the term "memes,"

Richard Dawkins, ki bo govoril kasneje, je izumil izraz "memi,"

and put forward the first really clear and vivid version of this idea

in predlagal prvo res jasno in živo verzijo te ideje

in his book "The Selfish Gene."

v knjigi "Sebični gen."

Now here am I talking about his idea.

Sedaj jaz tu govorim o njegovi ideji.

Well, you see, it's not his. Yes -- he started it.

Ampak, vidite, ni njegova. Ja -- on jo je začel.

But it's everybody's idea now.

Ampak sedaj je last vseh.

And he's not responsible for what I say about memes.

In on ni odgovoren za to, kaj jaz govorim o memih.

I'm responsible for what I say about memes.

Jaz sem odgovoren za to, kar govorim o memih.

Actually, I think we're all responsible

Pravzaprav, mislim, da smo vsi odgovorni

for not just the intended effects of our ideas,

ne zgolj za želene učinke naših idej,

but for their likely misuses.

ampak tudi za njihove potencialne napačne uporabe.

So it is important, I think, to Richard, and to me,

Tako je pomembno, mislim da tako Richardu kot meni,

that these ideas not be abused and misused.

da teh idej nihče ne izkorišča oziroma napačno uporablja.

They're very easy to misuse. That's why they're dangerous.

Zlahka se jih narobe uporabi. Zato so nevarne.

And it's just about a full-time job

In skoraj polna zaposlitev je

trying to prevent people who are scared of these ideas

preprečevanje ljudem, ki jih je strah teh idej,

from caricaturing them and then running off to one dire purpose or another.

da bi jih izmaličili in jih uporabljali za tak ali drugačen grozen namen.

So we have to keep plugging away,

Tako moramo kar naprej delati na tem,

trying to correct the misapprehensions

poizkušati popraviti napačna razumevanja,

so that only the benign and useful variants of our ideas continue to spread.

tako da se širijo samo neškodljive in uporabne različice naših idej.

But it is a problem.

Ampak to je težko.

We don't have much time, and I'm going to go over just a little bit of this and cut out,

Nimamo veliko časa in šel bom le čez nekaj zadev ter spustil ostale,

because there's a lot of other things that are going to be said.

ker bo veliko povedanega kasneje.

So let me just point out: memes are like viruses.

Tako bi predvsem izpostavil: memi so kot virusi.

That's what Richard said, back in '93.

To je dejal Richard leta '93.

And you might think, "Well, how can that be?

In lahko si mislite: "Kako je to mogoče?"

I mean, a virus is -- you know, it's stuff! What's a meme made of?"

"Mislim, virus je - kot vemo - snov! Iz česa so narejeni memi?"

Yesterday, Negroponte was talking about viral telecommunications

Včeraj je Negroponte govoril o virusnih telekomunikacijah,

but -- what's a virus?

ampak -- kaj je virus?

A virus is a string of nucleic acid with attitude.

Virus je veriga nukleinskih kislin s karakterjem.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

That is, there is something about it

Nekaj na njih jim omogoča,

that tends to make it replicate better than the competition does.

da se razmnožujejo bolje kot tekmeci.

And that's what a meme is. It's an information packet with attitude.

In to je mem; informacijski paket s karakterjem.

What's a meme made of? What are bits made of, Mom?

Iz česa so narejeni memi? Iz česa so narejeni biti, mami?

Not silicon.

Niso iz silikona.

They're made of information, and can be carried in any physical medium.

So iz informacije in se lahko prenašajo po snovi.

What's a word made of?

Iz česa so besede?

Sometimes when people say, "Do memes exist?"

Včasih, ko ljudje vprašajo: "Ali memi obstajajo,"

I say, "Well, do words exist? Are they in your ontology?"

jim rečem, "A besede obstajajo? So del vaše ontologije?"

If they are, words are memes that can be pronounced.

Če so, potem so besede memi, ki se jih da izgovoriti.

Then there's all the other memes that can't be pronounced.

Poleg tega je še mnogo memov, ki se jih ne da izgovoriti.

There are different species of memes.

Poznamo različne vrste memov.

Remember the Shakers? Gift to be simple?

Se spomnite Shaker-jev? Biti preprost?

Simple, beautiful furniture?

Preprosto, čudovito pohištvo?

And, of course, they're basically extinct now.

In seveda so zdaj skoraj izumrli.

And one of the reasons is that among the creed of Shaker-dom

Eden razlogov zato je eno njihovih prepričanj,

is that one should be celibate.

da je treba ostati v celibatu.

Not just the priests. Everybody.

Ne samo duhovništvo. Vsi.

Well, it's not so surprising that they've gone extinct. (Laughter)

Ni presenetljivo, da so izumrli. (Smeh)

But in fact that's not why they went extinct.

Ampak to ni razlog, zakaj so izumrli.

They survived as long as they did

Tako dolgo so preživeli,

at a time when the social safety nets weren't there.

ker takrat ni bilo socialnih varnostnih mrež.

And there were lots of widows and orphans,

Bilo pa je veliko vdov in sirot,

people like that, who needed a foster home.

ki so potrebovali varen dom.

And so they had a ready supply of converts.

Tako so imeli zalogo spreobrnjencev in

And they could keep it going.

so lahko preživeli.

And, in principle, it could've gone on forever,

Tako bi lahko nadaljevali brez prestanka.

with perfect celibacy on the part of the hosts.

Klub temu da so gostitelji v popolnem celibatu.

The idea being passed on through proselytizing,

Ideja se je širila s spreobračanjem

instead of through the gene line.

namesto preko dedovanja in reprodukcije.

So the ideas can live on in spite of the fact

Tako lahko ideje živijo kljub temu,

that they're not being passed on genetically.

da se ne prenašajo preko genov.

A meme can flourish in spite of having a negative impact on genetic fitness.

Mem se lahko razbohoti, kljub temu da negativno vpliva na genski napredek.

After all, the meme for Shaker-dom was essentially a sterilizing parasite.

Konec koncev, mem Shakerjev je bil parazit, ki sterilizira gostitelja.

There are other parasites that do this -- which render the host sterile.

Obstajajo tudi drugi paraziti, ki to počno -- ki sterilizirajo gostitelja.

It's part of their plan.

To je del njihovega načrta.

They don't have to have minds to have a plan.

Ne potrebujejo razuma, da bi imeli načrt.

I'm just going to draw your attention to just one

Omenil bom samo enega

of the many implications of the memetic perspective, which I recommend.

od mnogih posledic pogleda s stališča memov, ki ga priporočam.

I've not time to go into more of it.

Nimam časa za več.

In Jared Diamond's wonderful book, "Guns, Germs and Steel,"

V čudoviti knjigi Jareda Diamonda "Puške, bacili in jeklo"

he talks about how it was germs, more than guns and steel,

govori o tem, kako so mikrobi bolj kot puške in jeklo

that conquered the new hemisphere -- the Western hemisphere --

tisti, ki so zavzeli novo -- zahodno -- hemisfero,

that conquered the rest of the world.

ki je osvojila preostanek sveta.

When European explorers and travelers spread out,

Ko so se evropski raziskovalci in pustolovci odpravili v tuje dežele,

they brought with them the germs

so s seboj prinesli mikrobe,

that they had become essentially immune to,

na katere so bili imuni in

that they had learned how to tolerate over

na katere so se privadili skozi

hundreds and hundreds of years, thousands of years,

stoletja, tisočletja

of living with domesticated animals who were the sources of those pathogens.

življenja ob domačih živalih, ki so izvor takih mikroorganizmov.

And they just wiped out -- these pathogens just wiped out the native people,

In so jih izbrisali -- ti mikroorganizmi so enostavno izbrisali lokalno prebivalstvo,

who had no immunity to them at all.

ki nanje ni bilo imuno.

And we're doing it again.

In to zopet počnemo.

We're doing it this time with toxic ideas.

Tokrat to počnemo s strupenimi idejami.

Yesterday, a number of people -- Nicholas Negroponte and others --

Včeraj je nekaj ljudi -- Nicholas Negroponte in ostali --

spoke about all the wonderful things

govorilo o vseh čudovitih stvareh,

that are happening when our ideas get spread out,

ki se zgodijo, ko se naše ideje razširijo,

thanks to all the new technology all over the world.

zahvaljujoč novi tehnologiji po vsem svetu.

And I agree. It is largely wonderful. Largely wonderful.

In se strinjam. Večinoma je čudovito. Večinoma čudovito.

But among all those ideas that inevitably flow out into the whole world

Ampak med vsemi temi idejami, ki slej ko prej odletijo v svet

thanks to our technology, are a lot of toxic ideas.

zahvaljujoč naši tehnologiji, je mnogo strupenih idej.

Now, this has been realized for some time.

Tega se že nekaj časa zavedamo.

Sayyid Qutb is one of the founding fathers of fanatical Islam,

Sayyid Qutb je eden očetov skrajnega islama,

one of the ideologues that inspired Osama bin Laden.

eden ideologov, ki je navdihnil Osamo bin Ladna.

"One has only to glance at its press films, fashion shows, beauty contests,

"Treba je samo pogledati novinarske prispevke, modne revije,

ballrooms, wine bars and broadcasting stations." Memes.

lepotna tekmovanja, plesne dvorane, vinske degustacije." Memi.

These memes are spreading around the world

Ti memi se širijo po svetu

and they are wiping out whole cultures.

in izbrisujejo celotne kulture.

They are wiping out languages.

Izbrisujejo jezike.

They are wiping out traditions and practices.

Izbrisujejo tradicije in običaje.

And it's not our fault, anymore than it's our fault when our germs lay waste

In to ni naša krivda, nič bolj kot takrat, ko mikroorganizmi

to people that haven't developed the immunity.

ogrožajo ljudi, ki nanje niso razvili imunosti.

We have an immunity to all of the junk that lies around the edges of our culture.

Mi smo imuni na vso umazanijo, ki je za nohti naše kulture.

We're a free society, so we let pornography and all these things -- we shrug them off.

Smo svobodna družba in tako dopuščamo pornografijo in podobno -- ob njih skomignemo.

They're like a mild cold.

So kot manjši prehlad.

They're not a big deal for us.

Ne zdijo se nam nič posebnega.

But we should recognize that for many people in the world,

Moramo pa razumeti, da so za mnoge ljudi po svetu

they are a big deal.

nekaj velikega.

And we should be very alert to this.

In na to moramo biti zelo pozorni,

As we spread our education and our technology,

ko širimo naše izobraževanje in našo tehnologijo.

one of the things that we are doing is we're the vectors of memes

Ena stvari, ki jih počnemo, je, da smo nosilci memov,

that are correctly viewed by the hosts of many other memes

ki jih mnogi gostitelji drugih memov pravilno dojemajo

as a dire threat to their favorite memes --

kot veliko grožnjo njihovim najljubšim memom,

the memes that they are prepared to die for.

memom, za katere so pripravljeni umreti.

Well now, how are we going to tell the good memes from the bad memes?

Kako pa lahko ločimo dobre od slabih memov?

That is not the job of the science of memetics.

To ni več naloga znanosti o memih.

Memetics is morally neutral. And so it should be.

Memetika je moralno nevtralna. In taka mora biti.

This is not the place for hate and anger.

Tu ni prostora za jezo in sovraštvo.

If you've had a friend who's died of AIDS, then you hate HIV.

Če ste imeli prijatelja, ki je umrl za AIDS-om, potem sovražite HIV.

But the way to deal with that is to do science,

Ampak s tem se lahko spoprimemo s pomočjo znanosti:

and understand how it spreads and why in a morally neutral perspective.

lahko razumemo, kako se širi z moralno nevtralnega vidika.

Get the facts.

Najti je treba dejstva.

Work out the implications.

Razumeti posledice.

There's plenty of room for moral passion once we've got the facts

Veliko bo prostora za moralo, ko nademo dejstva

and can figure out the best thing to do.

in ugotovimo, kaj je najbolje storiti.

And, as with germs, the trick is not to try to annihilate them.

In tako kot z mikroorganizmi, trik ni v tem, da jih iztrebimo.

You will never annihilate the germs.

Nikoli ne bomo iztrebili mikroorganizmov.

What you can do, however, is foster public health measures and the like

Kar lahko naredimo, je to, da razvijamo ukrepe javnega zdravstva in podobno,

that will encourage the evolution of avirulence.

ki bodo spodbudili evolucijo imunosti.

That will encourage the spread of relatively benign mutations

To bo spodbudilo širjenje nenevarnih mutacij

of the most toxic varieties.

najbolj strupenih vrst.

That's all the time I have,

To je ves čas, ki sem ga imel,

so thank you very much for your attention.

najlepša hvala za pozornost.