Dangerous memes | Dan Dennett

Translator: Kadri Salus Reviewer: Allan Paiste

How many Creationists do we have in the room?

Kui mitu kreatsionisti on siin ruumis?

Probably none. I think we're all Darwinians.

Tõenäoliselt mitte ühtegi. Ma arvan, et me oleme kõik darvinistid.

And yet many Darwinians are anxious, a little uneasy --

Kuid siiski on mitmed darvinistid natuke rahutud

would like to see some limits on just how far the Darwinism goes.

ja tahaksid näha piiri, kui kaugele darvinism võib minna.

It's all right.

Pole hullu.

You know spiderwebs? Sure, they are products of evolution.

Ämblikuvõrke teate? Muidugi, see on evolutsiooni tulem.

The World Wide Web? Not so sure.

Aga interneti võrk? Pole nii kindel.

Beaver dams, yes. Hoover Dam, no.

Kopra tammid, jah. Hooveri tamm, ei.

What do they think it is that prevents the products of human ingenuity

Mis on nende arvates see, mis takistab inimese leidlikel saavutustel

from being themselves, fruits of the tree of life,

olemast Elu puu viljad

and hence, in some sense, obeying evolutionary rules?

ja mõnes mõttes allumast evolutsiooni reeglitele?

And yet people are interestingly resistant

Siiski on inimesed huvitaval kombel vastu

to the idea of applying evolutionary thinking to thinking -- to our thinking.

ideele, et evolutsiooniline mõtlemine peaks puudutama ka meie mõtlemist.

And so I'm going to talk a little bit about that,

Niisiis ma räägin natuke sellest,

keeping in mind that we have a lot on the program here.

pidades meeles, et meil on veel paljustki rääkida.

So you're out in the woods, or you're out in the pasture,

Niisiis sa oled metsas või hoopis karjamaal

and you see this ant crawling up this blade of grass.

ja sa näed, et mööda rohulible ronib üles sipelgas.

It climbs up to the top, and it falls,

Ta ronib tippu välja ja kukub alla

and it climbs, and it falls, and it climbs --

ja ronib ja kukub ja ronib –

trying to stay at the very top of the blade of grass.

püüdes jääda sinna rohulible tippu.

What is this ant doing? What is this in aid of?

Mida see sipelgas teeb? Mille jaoks ta seda teeb?

What goals is this ant trying to achieve by climbing this blade of grass?

Milliseid eesmärke üritab ta rohuliblele ronides saavutada?

What's in it for the ant?

Mis kasu sipelgas sellest saab?

And the answer is: nothing. There's nothing in it for the ant.

Ja vastus on: mitte midagi. Tal ei saa sellest midagi.

Well then, why is it doing this?

Miks ta siis seda teeb?

Is it just a fluke?

On see kõigest juhus?

Yeah, it's just a fluke. It's a lancet fluke.

Jah, see on juhus. Juhuslikult on see imiuss,

It's a little brain worm.

väike aju-uss.

It's a parasitic brain worm that has to get into the stomach of a sheep or a cow

See parasiitlik aju uss peab pääsema lamba või lehma kõhtu,

in order to continue its life cycle.

et seal paljuneda.

Salmon swim upstream to get to their spawning grounds,

Nagu lõhe ujub ülesvoolu, et jõuda kudemisaladele,

and lancet flukes commandeer a passing ant,

nii võtab imiuss oma valdusse mööduva sipelga,

crawl into its brain, and drive it up a blade of grass like an all-terrain vehicle.

ronib tema ajju ja juhib ta rohulible tippu nagu sõiduki.

So there's nothing in it for the ant.

Seega pole sipelgal sellest vähimatki kasu.

The ant's brain has been hijacked by a parasite that infects the brain,

Sipelga aju on kaaperdatud parasiidi poolt, kes nakatab aju

inducing suicidal behavior.

ja põhjustab enesetapuliku käitumise.

Pretty scary.

Üsna õudne.

Well, does anything like that happen with human beings?

Olgu, kas inimestega ka midagi sellist juhtub?

This is all on behalf of a cause other than one's own genetic fitness, of course.

See kõik on põhjusest, mis pole kellegi geneetilise sobivusega seotud.

Well, it may already have occurred to you

Teile on võibolla juba teada,

that Islam means "surrender," or "submission of self-interest to the will of Allah."

et islam tähendab ”alla andma” või ”omakasu allutamist Allahi tahtele”.

Well, it's ideas -- not worms -- that hijack our brains.

Meie ajusid ei kaaperda mitte ussid, vaid ideed.

Now, am I saying that a sizable minority of the world's population

Nii, kas ma väidan, et üsna suur vähemus maailma rahvastikust

has had their brain hijacked by parasitic ideas?

on lasknud parasiitsetel ideedel oma ajud kaaperdada?

No, it's worse than that.

Ei. Asi on hullem.

Most people have.

Enamus on lasknud.

(Laughter)

(Naer)

There are a lot of ideas to die for.

On palju ideesid, mille nimel surra.

Freedom, if you're from New Hampshire.

Vabadus, kui sa oled pärit New Hampshire’st.

(Laughter)

(Naer)

Justice. Truth. Communism.

Õiglus. Tõde. Kommunism.

Many people have laid down their lives for communism,

Paljud on langenud kommunismi nimel

and many have laid down their lives for capitalism.

ja paljud on langenud kapitalismi nimel.

And many for Catholicism. And many for Islam.

Ja paljud katoliikluse nimel ja paljud islami nimel.

These are just a few of the ideas that are to die for.

On ainult mõned ideed, mille nimel tasub surra.

They're infectious.

Need on nakkavad.

Yesterday, Amory Lovins spoke about "infectious repititis."

Eile pidas Amory Lovins loengu nimega ”Nakkuslik repetiit”.

It was a term of abuse, in effect.

See on ahistamisega seotud mõiste.

This is unthinking engineering.

See on mõtlematu kavandamine.

Well, most of the cultural spread that goes on

Enamik kultuurilisest levikust

is not brilliant, new, out-of-the-box thinking.

ei ole hiilgav, uus ega “väljaspool kasti" mõtlev.

It's "infectious repetitis,"

See on nakkuslik repetiit.

and we might as well try to have a theory of what's going on when that happens

Me võime proovida luua teooria sellest, mis siis toimub, kui see juhtub -

so that we can understand the conditions of infection.

selleks, et saaksime aru nakkuse seisundist.

Hosts work hard to spread these ideas to others.

Nakatunud näevad kõvasti vaeva, et need ideed teistele leviks.

I myself am a philosopher, and one of our occupational hazards

Ma olen ise filosoof ja üks meie kutse riske on,

is that people ask us what the meaning of life is.

et inimesed küsivad meilt mis on elu mõte.

And you have to have a bumper sticker,

Ja sul peab olema oma lööklause,

you know. You have to have a statement.

teate küll, sul peab olema seisukoht.

So, this is mine.

Niisiis, minu oma on selline.

The secret of happiness is: Find something more important than you are

Õnne saladus on: leia midagi tähtsamat kui sa ise

and dedicate your life to it.

ja pühenda oma elu sellele.

Most of us -- now that the "Me Decade" is well in the past --

Enamik meist – nüüd kui ”Mina-kümnendik” on möödas –

now we actually do this.

nüüd me tõesti teemegi seda.

One set of ideas or another

Üks või teine komplekt ideesid

have simply replaced our biological imperatives in our own lives.

on asendanud bioloogilised käsud meie elus.

This is what our summum bonum is.

See on meie ülim hüve.

It's not maximizing the number of grandchildren we have.

See pole lastelaste arvu maksimeerimine.

Now, this is a profound biological effect.

Nii, see on tähendusrikas bioloogiline efekt.

It's the subordination of genetic interest to other interests.

See on geneetilise huvi allumine teistele huvidele.

And no other species does anything at all like it.

Ja mitte ükski teine liik ei tee midagi sarnast.

Well, how are we going to think about this?

Hästi, mida me sellest arvame?

It is, on the one hand, a biological effect, and a very large one.

See on, teisati, väga tugev biologiline efekt.

Unmistakable.

Ilmselt.

Now, what theories do we want to use to look at this?

Mis teooriaid tahame me selle vaatlemiseks kasutada?

Well, many theories. But how could something tie them together?

Noh, paljusid. Aga kuidas miski need kokku seoks?

The idea of replicating ideas;

Idee ideede paljundamisest;

ideas that replicate by passing from brain to brain.

ideed, mis paljunevad, liikudes ajust ajju.

Richard Dawkins, whom you'll be hearing later in the day, invented the term "memes,"

Richard Dawkins, keda te kuulete täna hiljem, leiutas mõiste “meem”,

and put forward the first really clear and vivid version of this idea

pakkudes välja esimese väga selge ja värvika versiooni sellest ideest

in his book "The Selfish Gene."

oma raamatus “Isekas geen”.

Now here am I talking about his idea.

Siin ma nüüd olen, rääkimas tema ideest.

Well, you see, it's not his. Yes -- he started it.

See pole tema oma. Jah - tema alustas sellega.

But it's everybody's idea now.

Aga nüüd on see kõigi idee.

And he's not responsible for what I say about memes.

Ta ei vastuta selle eest, mida ma meemide kohta ütlen.

I'm responsible for what I say about memes.

Mina vastutan selle eest, mida ma meemide kohta ütlen.

Actually, I think we're all responsible

Tegelikult ma arvan, et me kõik vastutame

for not just the intended effects of our ideas,

mitte ainult meie ideede tahtlike mõjude,

but for their likely misuses.

vaid ka nende võimaliku väärkasutuse eest.

So it is important, I think, to Richard, and to me,

Niisiis on tähtis, ma arvan, Richardi ja minu jaoks,

that these ideas not be abused and misused.

et neid ideid ei kuritarvitataks ega väärkasutataks.

They're very easy to misuse. That's why they're dangerous.

Neid on väga lihtne valesti kasutada. Seetõttu ongi nad ohtlikud.

And it's just about a full-time job

Ja see on nagu täiskohaga töö,

trying to prevent people who are scared of these ideas

proovida takistada inimesi, kes neid ideesid kardavad,

from caricaturing them and then running off to one dire purpose or another.

neid pilkamast ja tormamast seejärel mõne teise kohutava eesmärgi suunas.

So we have to keep plugging away,

Niisiis peame me visalt rohima

trying to correct the misapprehensions

ja püüdma valearusaamad parandada,

so that only the benign and useful variants of our ideas continue to spread.

et ainult healoomulised ja kasulikud variandid meie ideedest jätkaksid levikut.

But it is a problem.

Aga see on probleem.

We don't have much time, and I'm going to go over just a little bit of this and cut out,

Meil pole palju aega ja ma räägin sellest ainult pisut veel ning lähen siis edasi,

because there's a lot of other things that are going to be said.

sest on veel paljustki muust rääkida.

So let me just point out: memes are like viruses.

Lubage mul rõhutada: meemid on nagu viirused.

That's what Richard said, back in '93.

See on see, mida Richard ütles aastal '93.

And you might think, "Well, how can that be?

Ja võite mõelda: “Kuidas see võimalik on?

I mean, a virus is -- you know, it's stuff! What's a meme made of?"

Viirus on ju asi! Millest meem tehtud on?”

Yesterday, Negroponte was talking about viral telecommunications

Eile rääkis Negroponte viiruslikust telekommunikatsioonist

but -- what's a virus?

aga – mis on viirus?

A virus is a string of nucleic acid with attitude.

Viirus on iseloomuga nukleiinhappe jada.

(Laughter)

(Naer)

That is, there is something about it

See tähendab, temas on midagi,

that tends to make it replicate better than the competition does.

mis paneb ta võrreldes konkurentidega paremini paljunema.

And that's what a meme is. It's an information packet with attitude.

Ja see ongi meem – iseloomuga informatioonipakike.

What's a meme made of? What are bits made of, Mom?

Millest meem tehtud on? Ema, millest bitid tehtud on?

Not silicon.

Mitte ränist.

They're made of information, and can be carried in any physical medium.

Need on tehtud informatsioonist ja neid võib kanda igal füüsilisel meediumil.

What's a word made of?

Millest sõna tehtud on?

Sometimes when people say, "Do memes exist?"

Mõnikord kui inimesed küsivad: “Kas meemid eksisteerivad?

I say, "Well, do words exist? Are they in your ontology?"

Vastan ma: “Kas sõnad eksisteerivad? Kas nad on sinu jaoks ontoloogiliselt olemas?”

If they are, words are memes that can be pronounced.

Kui nad on olemas, siis sõnad on meemid, mida saab hääldada.

Then there's all the other memes that can't be pronounced.

Ja siis on olemas veel teised meemid, mida ei saa hääldada.

There are different species of memes.

On olemas erinevat liiki meeme.

Remember the Shakers? Gift to be simple?

Mäletate Shakerseid (ususekt)? Oskus olla lihtne?

Simple, beautiful furniture?

Lihtne ja ilus mööbel?

And, of course, they're basically extinct now.

Ja muidugi on nad nüüd põhimõtteliselt välja surnud.

And one of the reasons is that among the creed of Shaker-dom

Ja üheks põhjuseks on Shakerluse usu juurde

is that one should be celibate.

kuulunud käsk olla tsölibaatne.

Not just the priests. Everybody.

Mitte ainult preestrid, vaid Kõik.

Well, it's not so surprising that they've gone extinct. (Laughter)

No pole ime, et nad välja on surnud. (Naer)

But in fact that's not why they went extinct.

Aga tegelikult pole see põhjus, miks nad välja surid.

They survived as long as they did

Nad püsisid elus nii kaua, kui suutsid,

at a time when the social safety nets weren't there.

ajal mil sotsiaalseid turvavõrke polnud veel olemas.

And there were lots of widows and orphans,

Ja oli palju leskesid ja orbe,

people like that, who needed a foster home.

selliseid inimesi, kes vajasid kasuperesid.

And so they had a ready supply of converts.

Ja nii oli neil valmis varu usuvahetajaid.

And they could keep it going.

Ja see võimaldas neil vastu pidada.

And, in principle, it could've gone on forever,

Ja põhimõtteliselt oleks see võinud kesta igavesti.

with perfect celibacy on the part of the hosts.

Koos idee kadjate täiusliku tsölibaadiga.

The idea being passed on through proselytizing,

Andes idee edasi läbi jutlustamise,

instead of through the gene line.

mitte läbi geneetilise pärandi.

So the ideas can live on in spite of the fact

Niisiis võivad ideed elada edasi vaatamata faktile,

that they're not being passed on genetically.

et neid ei anta edasi geneetiliselt.

A meme can flourish in spite of having a negative impact on genetic fitness.

Meem võib õitseda hoolimata negatiivsest mõjust geneetilisele võimekusele.

After all, the meme for Shaker-dom was essentially a sterilizing parasite.

Oli Shakerluse meem põhiliselt ju steriliseeriv parasiit.

There are other parasites that do this -- which render the host sterile.

On ka teisi parasiite, mis muudavad võõrustajad viljatuks.

It's part of their plan.

See on osa nende plaanist.

They don't have to have minds to have a plan.

Neil ei pea olema mõistlust, et omada plaani.

I'm just going to draw your attention to just one

Ma tõmbaks teie tähelepanu vaid ühele

of the many implications of the memetic perspective, which I recommend.

mitmetest meemilise perspektiivi eeldustest, mida ma soovitan.

I've not time to go into more of it.

Mul pole aega sellesse rohkem süveneda.

In Jared Diamond's wonderful book, "Guns, Germs and Steel,"

Jared Diamond’I suurepärases raamatus “Püssid, pisikud ja teras",

he talks about how it was germs, more than guns and steel,

rääkis ta kuidas need olid pisikud, mitte püssid ja teras,

that conquered the new hemisphere -- the Western hemisphere --

mis alistasid uue poolkera – Lääne poolkera –

that conquered the rest of the world.

mis alistas ülejäänud maailma.

When European explorers and travelers spread out,

Kui Euroopa maadeavastajad ja rändajad levisid,

they brought with them the germs

tõid nad endaga kaasa pisikud,

that they had become essentially immune to,

mille suhtes nad ise immuunsed olid,

that they had learned how to tolerate over

mida nad ise olid õppinud taluma

hundreds and hundreds of years, thousands of years,

sadu ja sadu aastaid, tuhandeid aastaid,

of living with domesticated animals who were the sources of those pathogens.

elades koos kodustatud loomadega, kes olid nende haigusetekitajate allikad.

And they just wiped out -- these pathogens just wiped out the native people,

Ja need haigusetekitajad lihtsalt pühkisid maalt põliselanikud,

who had no immunity to them at all.

kellel polnud nende vastu mitte mingit immuunsust.

And we're doing it again.

Ja me teeme seda jälle.

We're doing it this time with toxic ideas.

Aga seekord teeme me seda mürgiste ideedega.

Yesterday, a number of people -- Nicholas Negroponte and others --

Eile rääkisid mitmed inimesed – Nicholas Negroponte ja teised –

spoke about all the wonderful things

imelistest asjadest,

that are happening when our ideas get spread out,

mis juhtuvad kui meie ideed levivad

thanks to all the new technology all over the world.

tänu kõigele sellele uuele tehnoloogiale üle maailma.

And I agree. It is largely wonderful. Largely wonderful.

Ja ma nõustun. See on äärmiselt imeline. Äärmiselt imeline.

But among all those ideas that inevitably flow out into the whole world

Aga kõigi nende ideede hulgas, mis vältimatult laia maailma lendavad

thanks to our technology, are a lot of toxic ideas.

tänu meie tehnoloogiale, on palju mürgiseid ideesid.

Now, this has been realized for some time.

Nii, sellest on juba mõnda aega aru saadud.

Sayyid Qutb is one of the founding fathers of fanatical Islam,

Sayyid Qutb on üks fanaatilise Islami rajaja,

one of the ideologues that inspired Osama bin Laden.

üks ideologistidest, kes inspireeris Osama bin Ladenit.

"One has only to glance at its press films, fashion shows, beauty contests,

“Piisaks ainult pilgust tema pressifilmidele, moedemonstratsioonidele, iludusvõistlustele,

ballrooms, wine bars and broadcasting stations." Memes.

ballisaalidele, veinibaaridele ja raadiojaamadele.” Meemid.

These memes are spreading around the world

Need meemid levivad üle maailma

and they are wiping out whole cultures.

ja nad pühivad enda teelt terveid kultuure.

They are wiping out languages.

Nad pühivad enda teelt keeli.

They are wiping out traditions and practices.

Nad pühivad enda teelt traditsioonid ja tavad.

And it's not our fault, anymore than it's our fault when our germs lay waste

Ja see pole meie süü, nagu pole meie süü ka see, kui meie pisikud hävitasid

to people that haven't developed the immunity.

inimesed, kel polnud arenenud immuunsust.

We have an immunity to all of the junk that lies around the edges of our culture.

Meil on immuunsus selle rämpsu vastu, mis meie kultuuri ääri ümbritseb.

We're a free society, so we let pornography and all these things -- we shrug them off.

Meil on vaba ühiskond, milles lubame pornograafiat ja teisi asju – me kehitame nende peale õlgu.

They're like a mild cold.

Nad on nagu kerge külmetus.

They're not a big deal for us.

Nad pole meie jaoks oluline.

But we should recognize that for many people in the world,

Aga me peaksime teadvustama, et paljudele inimestele maailmas

they are a big deal.

on need olulised.

And we should be very alert to this.

Ja me peaksime olema selle suhtes valvsad,

As we spread our education and our technology,

kui me levitame oma haridust ja oma tehnoloogiat,

one of the things that we are doing is we're the vectors of memes

üks asi, mida me teeme: me oleme meemide vektoriteks,

that are correctly viewed by the hosts of many other memes

mida paljude teiste meemide kandjate poolt nähakse korrektselt,

as a dire threat to their favorite memes --

kui äärmist ohtu oma lemmikmeemidele –

the memes that they are prepared to die for.

meemidele, mille nimel nad on valmis surema.

Well now, how are we going to tell the good memes from the bad memes?

Nüüd siis, kuidas me eristame häid meeme halbadest meemidest?

That is not the job of the science of memetics.

See ei ole meemiteaduse ülesanne.

Memetics is morally neutral. And so it should be.

Meemiteadus on moraalselt neutraalne. Ja nii see peakski olema.

This is not the place for hate and anger.

See pole koht vihkamise ja viha jaoks.

If you've had a friend who's died of AIDS, then you hate HIV.

Kui Sul on olnud sõber, kes suri AIDSi, siis sa vihkad HIVi.

But the way to deal with that is to do science,

Aga sellest jagu saamiseks tuleb tegeleda teadusega

and understand how it spreads and why in a morally neutral perspective.

ja moraalselt neutraalses vaatenurgast aru saada kuidas see levib ja miks.

Get the facts.

Otsi fakte.

Work out the implications.

Tööta läbi vihjed.

There's plenty of room for moral passion once we've got the facts

On piisavalt ruumi moraalsele kirele, kui sul on faktid olemas

and can figure out the best thing to do.

ja saad välja selgitada parima asja, mida teha.

And, as with germs, the trick is not to try to annihilate them.

Ja nagu pisikutegagi, on trikk proovida neid mitte hävitada.

You will never annihilate the germs.

Sa ei saa kunagi hävitada pisikuid.

What you can do, however, is foster public health measures and the like

Mida sa saad teha, on edendada avalikke tervise abinõusid ja muud sellist,

that will encourage the evolution of avirulence.

mis pärsiks viiruste levimist.

That will encourage the spread of relatively benign mutations

See edendab suhteliselt healoomuliste mutatsioonide levikut

of the most toxic varieties.

kõige mürgisematest variantidest.

That's all the time I have,

Minu aeg on nüüd läbi saanud,

so thank you very much for your attention.

suur tänu teie tähelepanu eest.