Maurizio Seracini: The secret lives of paintings

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Thu-Huong Ha

Translator: Polonca Štritof Reviewer: Sara Tanjga

In 1975, I met in Florence a professor, Carlo Pedretti,

Leta 1975 sem v Firencah srečal profesorja Carla Pedrettija,

my former professor of art history, and today

mojega bivšega profesorja umetnostne zgodovine in danes

a world-renowned scholar of Leonardo da Vinci.

svetovno znanega strokovnjaka za Leonarda da Vincija.

Well, he asked me if I could find some technological way

Vprašal me je, če bi lahko poiskal kakšno tehnologijo,

to unfold a five-centuries-old mystery related to

s katero bi razrešili petstoletno skrivnost

a lost masterpiece by Leonardo da Vinci,

izgubljene mojstrovine Leonarda da Vincija

the "Battle of Anghiari," which is supposed to be located

"Bitka pri Anghiariju", ki naj bi se nahajala v

in the Hall of the 500 in Palazzo Vecchio, in Florence.

v Firencah, v Dvorani 15. stoletja [Salone del Cinquecento] v Palazzo Vecchiu.

Well, in the mid-'70s, there were not great opportunities

Sredi 70-ih let prejšnjega stoletja velikih priložnosti

for a bioengineer like me, especially in Italy, and so

za bioinženirja, kakršen sem bil sam, ni bilo, zlasti ne v Italiji,

I decided, with some researchers from the United States

zato smo se z nekaterimi raziskovalci iz ZDA

and the University of Florence, to start probing the murals

in Univerzo v Firencah odločili, da bomo v zidove ke države nad Milanom, krasila pa naj bi steno dvorane Salone dei Cinquecento,

decorated by Vasari on the long walls of the Hall of the 500

ki jih je poslikal Vasari, izvrtali luknjice in vanje vstavili sonde,

searching for the lost Leonardo.

s katerimi bi iskali izgubljeno Leonardovo fresko.

Unfortunately, at that time we did not know that

Na žalost takrat nismo vedeli,

that was not exactly where we should be looking,

da nismo iskali na pravem mestu,

because we had to go much deeper in, and so the research

saj bi morali priti veliko globlje, zato se je raziskovanje ustavilo.

came to a halt, and it was only taken up in 2000

Ponovno je oživelo šele leta 2000,

thanks to the interest and the enthusiasm of the Guinness family.

zahvaljujoč interesu in navdušenju družine Guiness.

Well, this time, we focused on trying to reconstruct

Tokrat smo se osredotočili na rekonstrukcijo

the way the Hall of the 500 was before the remodeling,

zidu ke države nad Milanom, krasila pa naj bi steno dvorane Salone dei Cinquecento, kakršen je bil pred prenovo,

and the so-called Sala Grande, which was built in 1494,

in zidu Velike dvorane, ki je bila zgrajena leta 1494

and to find out the original doors, windows,

in tako najti prvotna vrata in okna.

and in order to do that, we first created a 3D model,

V ta namen smo najprej izdelali 3D model zidu,

and then, with thermography, we went on to discover

nato pa s pomočjo termografije odkrivali

hidden windows. These are the original windows of the hall

skrita okna. To so originalna okna

of the Sala Grande. We also found out about the height

Velike dvorane. Ugotovili smo tudi višino stropa

of the ceiling, and we managed to reconstruct, therefore,

zaradi česar je bila možna tudi celotna rekonstrukcija

all the layout of this original hall

prvotne dvorane,

the way it was before there came Vasari,

kakršna je bila pred Vasarijem.

and restructured the whole thing,

Prenovili smo vse,

including a staircase that was very important

vključno s stopniščem, kar je bilo ključno

in order to precisely place "The Battle of Anghiari"

za natančno umestitev freske "Bitka pri Anghiariju"

on a specific area of one of the two walls.

na določeno mesto na enem od obeh zidov.

Well, we also learned that Vasari, who was commissioned

Ugotovili smo tudi, da je Vasari,

to remodel the Hall of the 500 between 1560 and 1574

ki je med 1560 in 1574 Salone dei Cinquecento prenavljal

by the Grand Duke Cosimo I of the Medici family,

po naročilu vojvoda Cosima I iz družine Medici,

we have at least two instances when he saved masterpieces

vsaj dvakrat shranil mojstrovine tako,

specifically by placing a brick wall in front of it

da jih je prednje nazidal zid

and leaving a small air gap.

in pri tem pustil majhno zračno odprtino.

One that we [see] here, Masaccio, the church of Santa Maria Novella in Florence,

Tu vidimo Masaccijevo "Sveto trojico" v cerkvi Santa Maria Novella v Firencah.

so we just said, well maybe, Visari has done something

Zato smo pomislili, da je mogoče Vasari kaj takega storil

like that in the case of this great work of art by Leonardo,

tudi v primeru te velike Leonardove umetnine --

since he was a great admirer of Leonardo da Vinci.

vemo namreč, da je bil velik občudovalec Leonarda da Vincija.

And so we built some very sophisticated radio antennas

Zato smo razvili napredne radarske antene

just for probing both walls and searching for an air gap.

zgolj za sondiranje obeh zidov in iskanje zračne odprtine.

And we did find many on the right panel of the east wall,

In res smo pretežno na desni plošči vzhodnega zidu

an air gap, and that's where

našli zračno odprtino. In tam

we believe "The Battle of Anghiari,"

se po našem mnenju nahaja "Bitka pri Anghiariju",

or at least the part that we know has been painted,

ali vsaj njen poslikan del,

which is called "The Fight for the Standard," should be located.

ki se imenuje "Bitka za standard".

Well, from there, unfortunately,

No, takrat se je na žalost

in 2004, the project

leta 2004 projekt ustavil.

came to a halt. Many political reasons.

Zaradi mnogo političnih razlogov.

So I decided to go back to my alma mater,

Zato sem se napotil nazaj na svojo matično univerzo,

and, at the University of California, San Diego,

in tam, na kalifornijski univerzi v San Diegu

and I proposed to open up a research center

predlagal, da se odpre raziskovalni center

for engineering sciences for cultural heritage.

za tehnične znanosti in kulturno dediščino.

And in 2007, we created CISA3 as a research center

Leta 2007 smo tako odprli raziskovalni center CISA3

for cultural heritage, specifically art, architecture

za kulturno dediščino s specifičnim poudarkom na umetnosti, arhitekturi

and archaeology. So students started to flow in,

in arheologiji. Študentov je bilo vedno več,

and we started to build technologies, because that's

začeli smo razvijati tehnologije, saj je to

basically what we also needed in order to move forward

osnova, ki smo jo potrebovali za napredek in

and go and do fieldwork.

izvajanje dela na terenu.

We came back in the Hall of the 500 in 2011,

V Salone dei Cinquecento smo se vrnili leta 2011,

and this time, with a great group of students,

tokrat z veliko skupino študentov

and my colleague, Professor Falko Kuester,

in z mojim kolegom profesorjem Falkom Kuesterjem,

who is now the director at CISA3, and we

ki je zdaj direktor raziskovalnega centra CISA3.

came back just since we knew already where to look for

Ko smo prišli nazaj, smo vedeli, kje iskati,

to find out if there was still something left.

da bomo videli, če je še kaj ostalo.

Well, we were confined though, limited, I should rather say,

No, pri delu smo bili omejeni,

for several reasons that it's not worth explaining,

- zaradi več razlogov, ki jih ni vredno razlagati -

to endoscopy only, of the many other options we had,

izmed vseh možnosti zgolj na metodo z endoskopijo.

and with a 4mm camera attached to it,

Pri endoskopiji smo uporabljali smo 4 mm kamero

we were successful in documenting and taking

in uspešno dokumentirali in zajeli

some fragments of what it turns out to be

nekaj fragmentov barve, ki se je izkazala za

a reddish color, black color, and there is some

rdečkasto, črno,

beige fragments that later on

kasneje smo našli tudi nekaj fragmentov bež barve.

we ran a much more sophisticated exams,

Kasneje smo lahko izvedli veliko bolj kompleksne raziskave -

XRF, X-ray diffraction, and the results are very positive

rentgensko fluorescentno (XRF) in rentgensko presevno (XRD) tomografijo.

so far. It seems to indicate that indeed

Doslej smo imeli res zelo pozitivne rezultate, ki kažejo na to,

we have found some pigments, and since we know for sure

da smo zares našli nekaj pigmentov. In ker zagotovo vemo,

that no other artist has painted on that wall

da noben drug umetnik ni slikal na ta zid

before Vasari came in about 60 years later, well,

razen Vasarija, ki pride 60 let kasneje,

those pigments are therefore firmly related to mural painting

smo sklepali, da so ti pigmenti del zidne poslikave,

and most likely to Leonardo.

torej najverjetneje pripadajo Leonardu.

Well, we are searching for the highest and highly praised

Iščemo torej zelo cenjeno umetnino,

work of art ever achieved by mankind.

ki jo je kadar koli ustvaril človek.

As a matter of fact, this is by far the most important

Pravzaprav je bilo naročilo zanjo najpomembnejše

commission that Leonardo has ever had,

od vseh, ki jih je Leonardo kadar koli dobil.

and for doing this great masterpiece, he was named

Ko je mojstrovino dokončal,

the number one artist influence at the time.

je bil proglašen za najvplivnejšega umetnika tiste dobe.

I had also had the privilege since the last 37 years

Tudi sam sem imel čast zadnjih 37 let.

to work on several masterpieces as you can see behind me,

delati z več mojstrovinami, kot vidite v ozadju -

but basically to do what? Well, to assess, for example,

Kaj sem v osnovi počel z njimi? Na primer ugotavljal sem

the state of conservation. See here the face of the

stanje ohranjenosti. Tu vidite

Madonna of the Chair that when just shining a UV light on it

obraz "Marije na stolu". V trenutku, ko jo izpostavimo UV svetlobi,

you suddenly see another, different lady,

se nenadoma prikaže še ena, drugačna ženska,

aged lady, I should rather say.

ki deluje postarana, moram reči.

There is a lot of varnish still sitting there, several retouches,

Še vedno je vidnega precej laka, kar nekaj retuširanj

and some over cleaning. It becomes very visible.

in nekaj čiščenja. A postane zelo vidna.

But also, technology has helped to write new pages

Tehnologija pa nam pomaga pisati tudi nova poglavja

of our history, or at least to update pages of our histories.

zgodovine, ali vsaj njihove posodobitve.

For example, the "Lady with the Unicorn,"

Na primer, na sliki "Dama s samorogom",

another painting by Rafael, well, you see the unicorn.

ki jo je prav tako naredil Rafael, vidite samoroga.

A lot has been said and written about the unicorn, but

Veliko je bilo povedanega in napisanega o tem samorogu,

if you take an X-ray of the unicorn, it becomes a puppy dog.

toda če ga gledate pod UV svetlobo, postane pasji mladiček.

And — (Laughter) — no problem, but, unfortunately,

In - (smeh) - kar ni problematično. A na žalost

continuing with the scientific examination of this painting

so nadaljnje znanstvene raziskave te slike

came out that Rafael did not paint the unicorn,

pokazale, da Rafael ni naslikal samoroga,

did not paint the puppy dog, actually left the painting

ni naslikal psička, ampak je v resnici pustil sliko

unfinished, so all this writing about the exotic symbol

nedokončano. Skratka, vse pisanje o eksotični simboliki

of the unicorn — (Laughter) — unfortunately,

samoroga - (smeh) - na žalost

is not very reliable. (Laughter)

ni zelo zanesljivo. (Smeh)

Well, also, authenticity. Just think for a moment

Pristnost -- ravno tako. Samo pomislite,

if science really could move in the field of authenticity

da bi znanost res lahko posegala v raziskovanje pristnosti

of works of art. There would be a cultural revolution

umetniških del. Prišlo bi najmanj do kulturne revolucije,

to say the least, but also, I would say, a market revolution,

in po mojem mnenju tudi do revolucije trga.

let me add. Take this example:

Vzemimo tale primer -

Otto Marseus, nice painting, which is "Still Life"

Lepa slika Otta Marseusa z naslovom "Tihožitje"

at the Pitti Gallery, and just have an infrared camera peering through,

v galeriji Pitti. Ravno smo jo pregledali z infrardečo kamero

and luckily for art historians, it just was confirmed

in na srečo umetnostnih zgodovinarjev je bilo potrjeno,

that there is a signature of Otto Marseus. It even says

da je podpis spodaj zares Marseusov. Zapisano je celo,

when it was made and also the location.

kdaj je bil podpis narejen in kje.

So that was a good result. Sometimes, it's not that good,

To je primer pozitivnega rezultata. Včasih pa temu ni tako.

and so, again, authenticity and science could go together

In zato bi lahko ugotavljanje pristnosti in znanost delali z roko v roki

and change the way, not attributions being made,

- ne pri samem pripisu avtorstva -

but at least lay the ground for a more objective,

ampak vsaj pri zagotavljanju temeljev za bolj objektivno,

or, I should rather say, less subjective attribution,

oziroma, da se bolje izrazim, manj subjektivno pripisovanje avtorstva,

as it is done today.

kakor se to počne danes.

But I would say the discovery that really caught

Odkritje, ki je res prevzelo mojo domišljijo

my imagination, my admiration, is the incredibly vivid

in vzbudilo občudovanje, je nenavadno nazorna

drawing under this layer, brown layer,

risba pod rjavo plastjo

of "The Adoration of the Magi." Here you see

na sliki "Čaščenje treh kraljev". Tu vidite

a handmade setting XYZ scanner with an infrared camera put on it,

ročno izdelani komplet za XYZ skener in na njem infrardečo kamero,

and just peering through this brown layer

ki s svetlobo prebada rjavo plast

of this masterpiece to reveal

te umetnine in razkriva,

what could have been underneath.

kaj bi lahko bilo spodaj.

Well, this happens to be the most important painting

No, to je najpomembnejša slika

we have in Italy by Leonardo da Vinci, and

Leonarda da Vincija, ki jo imamo v Italiji.

look at the wonderful images of faces that nobody has seen

Samo poglejte čudovite podobe obrazov,

for five centuries. Look at these portraits.

ki jih 5 stoletij nihče ni videl. Poglejte te portrete.

They're magnificent. You see Leonardo at work.

Veličastni so. To je pravi Leonardo.

You see the geniality of his creation, right directly

Vidimo genialnost njegove stvaritve neposredno

on the ground layer of the panel, and see

na osnovni plasti platna, poglejmo pa še

this cool thing, finding, I should rather say,

tole super zadevo - kar odkritje, bi lahko rekli -

an elephant. (Laughter) Because of this elephant,

to je slon. (Smeh) Zaradi tega slona

over 70 new images came out, never seen for centuries.

je bilo odkritih še 70 novih podob, ki jih prej nismo opazili.

This was an epiphany. We came to understand

To je bilo pravo razodetje. Dojeli in

and to prove that the brown coating that we see today

dokazali smo, da rjavi sloj, ki ga vidimo danes,

was not done by Leonardo da Vinci, which left us

ni bil delo Leonarda da Vincija, tako da nam je ostala

only the other drawing that for five centuries

samo spodnja risba, ki je pet stoletij sploh nismo mogli videti.

we were not able to see, so thanks only to technology.

Zahvalimo se lahko samo tehnologiji.

Well, the tablet. Well, we thought, well, if we all have

Tablični računalnik. Takole smo razmišljali -

this pleasure, this privilege to see all this,

če imamo mi ta privilegij, da vse to vidimo

to find all these discoveries, what about for everybody else?

in odkrijemo, kaj pa vsi ostali?

So we thought of an augmented reality application

Domislili smo se aplikacije za nadgrajeno resničnost

using a tablet. Let me show you just simulating

na tabličnih računalnikih. S simulacijo vam bom pokazal,

what we could be doing, any of us could be doing,

kaj bi lahko vsi mi počeli z njo

in a museum environment.

v muzejskih okoljih.

So let's say that we go to a museum with a tablet, okay?

Recimo, da se odpravimo v muzej s tabličnim računalnikom, ok?

And we just aim the camera of the tablet

Kamero na tablici usmerimo

to the painting that we are interested to see, like this.

v sliko, ki nas zanima -- takole.

Okay? And I will just click on it, we pause,

OK? Zdaj samo kliknem nanjo, počakam --

and now let me turn to you so the moment the image,

-- naj se obrnem proti vam.

or, I should say, the camera, has locked in the painting,

V trenutku ko kamera zazna sliko,

then the images you just saw up there in the drawing

se začnejo na tablico nalagati podobe, ki jih vidimo na sliki.

are being loaded. And so, see.

Takole, poglejte.

We can, as we said, we can zoom in. Then we can scroll.

Kot sem povedal, zdaj lahko povečujemo in se pomikamo po njej.

Okay? Let's go and find the elephant.

OK? Poskusimo najti slona.

So all we need is one finger. Just wipe off

Vse, kar potrebujemo, je prst. Z njim samo zradirate en sloj z ekrana

and we see the elephant. (Applause)

in prikaže se slon. (Aplavz)

(Applause)

(Aplavz)

Okay? And then if we want,

Če želimo nadaljevati,

we can continue the scroll to find out, for example,

se pomaknemo naprej, na primer

on the staircase, the whole iconography is going

na stopnišče, kjer se spremeni celotna ikonografija

to be changed. There are a lot of laymen reconstructing

Tam je veliko navadnih ljudi,

from the ruins of an old temple a new temple,

ki iz ruševin starega templja gradijo novega,

and there are a lot of figures showing up. See?

zraven pa se pokaže še ogromno likov. Vidite?

This is not just a curiosity, because it changes

Ne gre samo za zanimivost, saj ne spremeni

not just the iconography as you see it, but the iconology,

samo ikonografije kot jo vidite,

the meaning of the painting,

ampak ikonologijo, celoten pomen slike.

and we believe this is a cool way, easy way,

Prepričani smo, da je to prijazen in enostaven način,

that everybody could have access to, to become more

s katerim vsak uporabnik lahko dobi dostop,

the protagonist of your own discovery, and not just

da postane protagonist svojih odkrivanj

be so passive about it, as we are when we walk through

in ne samo pasiven gledalec, ki se sprehaja

endless rooms of museums.

v neštetih muzejskih sobah.

(Applause)

(Aplavz)

Another concept is the digital clinical chart, which sounds

Še en koncept je digitalna diagnostična karta,

very obvious if we were to talk about real patients,

ki je zelo razumljiv, če bi govorili o dejanskih pacientih.

but when we talk about works of art, unfortunately,

A ko govorimo o umetnosti,

it's never been tapped as an idea.

žal ta ideja nikoli ni bila udejanjena.

Well, we believe, again, that this should be the beginning,

Prepričani smo, da je to šele začetek,

the very first step, to do real conservation,

prvi korak pravega ohranjanja umetniških del,

and allowing us to really explore and to understand

ki nam omogoča raziskovanje in razumevanje

everything related to the state of our conservation,

kar je vezano na njihovo ohranjanje in varovanje -

the technique, materials, and also if, when, and why

tehniko, materiale, pa tudi če, kdaj in zakaj

we should restore, or, rather, to intervene on

naj restavriramo, oziroma posegamo

the environment surrounding the painting.

v okolje slike.

Well, our vision is to rediscover

Naša vizija je ponovno odkrivati

the spirit of the Renaissance, create a new discipline

renesančni duh, razviti novo disciplino,

where engineering for cultural heritage is actually

kjer bo inženirstvo v kulturni dediščini

a symbol of blending art and science together.

postalo simbol združevanja umetnosti in znanosti.

We definitely need a new breed of engineers

Definitivno za to potrebujemo novi rod inženirjev,

that will go out and do this kind of work and

ki bodo šli na teren in opravljali tovrstno delo,

rediscover for us these values, these cultural values

ki bodo za vse nas na novo odkrivali vrednote, kulturne vrednote,

that we badly need, especially today.

ki jih tako obupno potrebujemo, posebno dandanes.

And if you want to summarize in one just single word,

Če bi to povzeli z eno samo besedo,

well, this is what we're trying to do.

mi skušamo početi tole:

We're trying to give a future to our past

naši preteklosti poskušamo dati prihodnost,

in order to have a future.

zato da bi sami imeli prihodnost.

As long as we live a life of curiosity and passion,

Dokler živimo življenje polno radovednosti in strasti,

there is a bit of Leonardo in all of us. Thank you. (Applause)

je v vsakem od nas nekaj Leonarda. Hvala. (aplavz)

(Applause)

(Aplavz)