Dare to disagree | Margaret Heffernan

576,454 views ・ 2012-08-06

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μ•„λž˜ μ˜λ¬Έμžλ§‰μ„ λ”λΈ”ν΄λ¦­ν•˜μ‹œλ©΄ μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€.

00:00
Translator: Thu-Huong Ha Reviewer: Morton Bast
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λ²ˆμ—­: Nathan Jo κ²€ν† : Sang Hyun Park
00:15
In Oxford in the 1950s,
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1950λ…„λŒ€ μ˜₯μŠ€ν¬λ“œμ—
00:17
there was a fantastic doctor, who was very unusual,
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μ•¨λ¦¬μŠ€ μŠ€νŠœμ–΄νŠΈ(Alice Stewart)λΌλŠ” λ³΄κΈ°λ“œλ¬Έ
00:21
named Alice Stewart.
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ν™˜μƒμ μΈ μ˜μ‚¬κ°€ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:23
And Alice was unusual partly because, of course,
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Aliceκ°€ 보기 λ“œλ¬Έ μ˜μ‚¬μ˜€λ˜ 건, λ¬Όλ‘ ,
00:26
she was a woman, which was pretty rare in the 1950s.
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1950λ…„λŒ€μ— μ—¬μ˜μ‚¬λŠ” κ½€ λ“œλ¬Όμ—ˆκΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ΄μ£ .
00:29
And she was brilliant, she was one of the,
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κ·Έλ…€λŠ” 총λͺ…ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. λ‹Ήμ‹œ, 영ꡭ 왕립 μ™Έκ³Ό ν•™νšŒμ˜
00:32
at the time, the youngest Fellow to be elected to the Royal College of Physicians.
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κ°€μž₯ μ–΄λ¦° νšŒμ›μ΄κΈ°λ„ ν–ˆμ–΄μš”.
00:36
She was unusual too because she continued to work after she got married,
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κ·Έλ…€λŠ” κ²°ν˜Όν•˜κ³ λ‚˜μ„œλ„ 일을 κ³„μ†ν•œ μ—¬μžλž€ μ μ—μ„œλ„,
00:40
after she had kids,
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λ³΄κΈ°λ“œλ¬Έ μ˜μ‚¬μ˜€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. 아이듀을 낳은 ν›„,
00:42
and even after she got divorced and was a single parent,
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심지어 μ΄ν˜Όν•˜κ³  μ‹±κΈ€λ§˜μ΄ 된 후에도
00:45
she continued her medical work.
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μ˜λ£Œμ—…λ¬΄λ₯Ό κ³„μ†ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:48
And she was unusual because she was really interested in a new science,
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또, μƒˆλ‘­κ²Œ λ– μ˜€λ₯΄λ˜ μ—­ν•™(전염병학), κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‹ˆκΉŒ
00:52
the emerging field of epidemiology,
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μ§ˆλ³‘μ˜ νŒ¨ν„΄μ„ μ—°κ΅¬ν•˜λŠ” 것에 ν₯λ―Έλ₯Ό κ°€μ‘Œμ—ˆλ‹€λŠ”
00:54
the study of patterns in disease.
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μ μ—μ„œλ„ κ·Έλ…€λŠ” νŠΉμ΄ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
00:58
But like every scientist, she appreciated
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ 그녀도, λͺ¨λ“  κ³Όν•™μžλ“€μ²˜λŸΌ
01:00
that to make her mark, what she needed to do
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μ„±κ³΅ν•˜κΈ° μœ„ν•΄μ„œλŠ”, μ–΄λ–€ μ–΄λ €μš΄ 문제λ₯Ό μ°Ύκ³ 
01:02
was find a hard problem and solve it.
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ν•΄κ²°ν•΄λ‚΄μ•Ό 함을 μ•Œκ³  μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:07
The hard problem that Alice chose
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Aliceκ°€ μ„ νƒν•œ λ¬Έμ œλŠ”
01:09
was the rising incidence of childhood cancers.
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μ†Œμ•„μ•” λ°œλ³‘λ₯ μ˜ μ¦κ°€μ˜€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:13
Most disease is correlated with poverty,
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μ§ˆλ³‘ λŒ€λΆ€λΆ„μ€ κ°€λ‚œκ³Ό 관계가 μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€λ§Œ
01:15
but in the case of childhood cancers,
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μ†Œμ•„μ•”μ˜ κ²½μš°μ—”,
01:17
the children who were dying seemed mostly to come
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μ£½μ–΄κ°€λ˜ 아이듀 λŒ€λΆ€λΆ„μ΄
01:20
from affluent families.
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μœ λ³΅ν•œ κ°€μ • ν™˜κ²½μ˜ 아이듀 κ°™μ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:22
So, what, she wanted to know,
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κ·Έλ…€λŠ” κ·Έλž˜μ„œ, μ˜ˆμ™Έμ μΈ 이 ν˜„μƒμ„ μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ
01:24
could explain this anomaly?
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μ„€λͺ…ν•  수 μžˆλŠ”κ°€λ₯Ό κ³ λ―Όν–ˆμ§€μš”.
01:27
Now, Alice had trouble getting funding for her research.
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μ‹œμž‘ν•˜λ €λ‹ˆ, 연ꡬ μžκΈˆμ„ μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ λŒˆμ§€ λ¬Έμ œκ°€ μžˆμ—ˆκ³ 
01:30
In the end, she got just 1,000 pounds
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λ§ˆμΉ¨λ‚΄, 'Tata 여사 기념상'으둜써
01:32
from the Lady Tata Memorial prize.
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1,000 νŒŒμš΄λ“œλ₯Ό 받을 수 μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:34
And that meant she knew she only had one shot
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그리고 그것이, μžμ‹ μ—κ²Œ, 자료λ₯Ό μˆ˜μ§‘ν•  '단 ν•œ 번의'
01:37
at collecting her data.
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기회λ₯Ό μ˜λ―Έν•œλ‹€λŠ” κ±Έ μ•Œκ³  μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:39
Now, she had no idea what to look for.
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그런데, λ‹Ήμž₯ 뭘 μ°Ύμ•„μ•Ό ν•˜λŠ”μ§€λ₯Ό λͺ°λžμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:41
This really was a needle in a haystack sort of search,
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κ±΄μ΄ˆλ”λ―Έμ—μ„œ λ°”λŠ˜μ°ΎκΈ°μ™€ κ°™μ•˜μ£ .
01:44
so she asked everything she could think of.
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ λ– μ˜¬λ¦΄ 수 μžˆλŠ” λͺ¨λ“  μ§ˆλ¬Έμ„ ν•΄λ΄€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
01:47
Had the children eaten boiled sweets?
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"아이듀이 λˆˆκΉ”μ‚¬νƒ•μ„ λ¨Ήμ—ˆμ„κΉŒ?"
01:49
Had they consumed colored drinks?
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"애듀이 μƒ‰μ†ŒμŒλ£Œλ₯Ό λ§ˆμ…¨λ‚˜?"
01:51
Did they eat fish and chips?
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"생선, κ°μžνŠ€κΉ€ λ•Œλ¬ΈμΈκ°€?"
01:52
Did they have indoor or outdoor plumbing?
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"집에 λ‚΄, μ™Έ λ°°κ΄€μ‹œμ„€μ€ μžˆμ„κΉŒ?"
01:54
What time of life had they started school?
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"μ–Έμ œ 학ꡐ에 κ°€κΈ° μ‹œμž‘ν•˜μ§€?"
01:58
And when her carbon copied questionnaire started to come back,
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κ·Έλ…€μ˜ 섀문지듀이 λŒμ•„μ˜€κΈ° μ‹œμž‘ν–ˆμ„ λ•Œ,
02:01
one thing and one thing only jumped out
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ν•˜λ‚˜ ν•˜λ‚˜ λ“€μΆ°λ³΄λ©΄μ„œ λΉ„λ‘œμ†Œ λŒ€λΆ€λΆ„μ˜
02:04
with the statistical clarity of a kind that
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κ³Όν•™μžλ“€λ§Œ(μΌλ°˜μΈμ€ μ•Œμ•„μ±„κΈ° μ–΄λ €μš΄)이 μ•Œμ•„μ±Œ
02:07
most scientists can only dream of.
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톡계적 확연함이 λˆˆμ— λ“€μ–΄μ™”μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:09
By a rate of two to one,
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μž„μ‹  쀑에 X-ray 선을 μͺΌμ˜€λ˜ μ—„λ§ˆμ˜ 아이듀이
02:11
the children who had died
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2:1의 λΉ„μœ¨λ‘œ (2/3)
02:13
had had mothers who had been X-rayed when pregnant.
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μ‚¬λ§ν•œ κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ λ‚˜νƒ€λ‚¬λ˜ κ²ƒμ΄μ§€μš”.
02:20
Now that finding flew in the face of conventional wisdom.
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μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°λŠ” 곧, μ‚¬νšŒμ  톡념에 λŒ€ν•œ κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ λ°”λ€Œμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:24
Conventional wisdom held
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μ‚¬νšŒμ  톡념은 λͺ¨λ“  것듀이
02:26
that everything was safe up to a point, a threshold.
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'μ–΄λŠ 정도'κΉŒμ§€λŠ” μ•ˆμ „ν•˜λ‹€κ³  μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:30
It flew in the face of conventional wisdom,
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톡섀에 λŒ€ν•œ λ‹΄λ‘ μœΌλ‘œ μ΄μ–΄μ‘Œκ³ 
02:32
which was huge enthusiasm for the cool new technology
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그것은 λ‹Ήμ‹œ X-ray λΌλŠ” 멋진 μ‹ κΈ°μˆ μ— λŒ€ν•œ
02:36
of that age, which was the X-ray machine.
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κ±°λŒ€ν•œ μ—΄μ •μ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:40
And it flew in the face of doctors' idea of themselves,
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그리고 μ΄μ•ΌκΈ°λŠ” λ˜ν•œ μ˜μ‚¬λŠ”, ν™˜μžλ₯Ό ν•΄μΉ˜μ§€ μ•ŠλŠ”
02:44
which was as people who helped patients,
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ν™˜μžλ₯Ό λ•λŠ” μ‚¬λžŒμ΄λΌλŠ”
02:48
they didn't harm them.
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μ˜μ‚¬λ“€μ˜ 자기 λ³€ν˜Έλ‘œ μ΄μ–΄μ‘ŒμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:50
Nevertheless, Alice Stewart rushed to publish
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κ·ΈλŸΌμ—λ„ λΆˆκ΅¬ν•˜κ³ , 1956λ…„, Alice StewartλŠ” μ„œλ‘˜λŸ¬ μžμ‹ μ˜
02:54
her preliminary findings in The Lancet in 1956.
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μ˜ˆλΉ„ 연ꡬ κ²°κ³Όλ₯Ό Lancet (μ˜ν•™μž‘μ§€)에 κ²Œμž¬ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
02:58
People got very excited, there was talk of the Nobel Prize,
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μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ€ 맀우 ν₯λΆ„ν–ˆμ£ , 노벨상 μ–˜κΈ°λ„ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:02
and Alice really was in a big hurry
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그리고 AliceλŠ” 연ꡬ할 수 μžˆλŠ” μ†Œμ•„μ•” ν™˜μ•„(ε…’)듀이
03:04
to try to study all the cases of childhood cancer she could find
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μ „λΆ€ 사라지기 전에, λͺ¨λ“  사둀λ₯Ό μ—°κ΅¬ν•˜κΈ° μœ„ν•΄
03:08
before they disappeared.
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맀우 μ„œλ‘˜λ €μ§€μš”.
03:10
In fact, she need not have hurried.
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사싀, κ·Έλ ‡κ²Œ μ„œλ‘˜ ν•„μš”λŠ” 없지 μ•Šμ•˜λ‚˜ ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:14
It was fully 25 years before the British and medical --
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영미 μ˜λ£ŒκΈ°κ΄€λ“€μ΄ μž„μ‹  μ—¬μ„±μ—κ²Œ
03:18
British and American medical establishments
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X-ray μ‚¬μš©μ„ κΈˆμ§€ν•œ λ•Œλ³΄λ‹€
03:21
abandoned the practice of X-raying pregnant women.
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25년을 μ•žμ„°κ±°λ“ μš”.
03:27
The data was out there, it was open, it was freely available,
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μžλ£Œκ°€ 곡개적으둜 λ‚˜μ™€μžˆμ—ˆκ³ , λˆ„κ΅¬λ“  자유둭게
03:33
but nobody wanted to know.
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μ΄μš©ν•  수 μžˆμ—ˆμœΌλ‚˜, 아무도 μ•Œκ³  μ‹Άμ–΄ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:37
A child a week was dying,
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ν•œ 주에 ν•œ λͺ… 꼴둜 아이듀이 μ£½μ–΄λ‚˜κ°”μ§€λ§Œ
03:40
but nothing changed.
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아무 것도 λ°”λ€Œμ§€ μ•Šμ•˜μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:42
Openness alone can't drive change.
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κ°œλ°©μ„±λ§ŒμœΌλ‘œλŠ” λ³€ν™”λ₯Ό λŒμ–΄λ‚Ό 수 μ—†μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:49
So for 25 years Alice Stewart had a very big fight on her hands.
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25λ…„κ°„ Alice StewartλŠ” ν™€λ‘œ 큰 싸움을 ν•΄μ™”μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
03:54
So, how did she know that she was right?
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그런데, κ·Έλ…€λŠ” μžμ‹ μ΄ μ˜³λ‹€λŠ” 것을 μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ μ•Œμ•˜μ„κΉŒμš”?
03:57
Well, she had a fantastic model for thinking.
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그녀에겐 사고(思考)λ₯Ό μœ„ν•œ ν™˜μƒμ μΈ λͺ¨λΈμ΄ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:01
She worked with a statistician named George Kneale,
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κ·Έλ…€λŠ” George KnealeλΌλŠ” ν†΅κ³„ν•™μžμ™€ ν•¨κ»˜ μΌν–ˆλŠ”λ°
04:03
and George was pretty much everything that Alice wasn't.
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GeorgeλŠ” Aliceμ™€λŠ” ꡉμž₯히 λ‹¬λžμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:06
So, Alice was very outgoing and sociable,
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Aliceκ°€ ꡉμž₯히 사ꡐ적이고 ν™œλ°œν–ˆλ˜ 반면,
04:09
and George was a recluse.
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GeorgeλŠ” μ€λ‘”μžμ˜€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:11
Alice was very warm, very empathetic with her patients.
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AliceλŠ” ν™˜μžλ“€μ—κ²Œ 맀우 λ”°λœ»ν•˜κ³  곡감을 μž˜ν•΄μ€¬μ§€λ§Œ
04:15
George frankly preferred numbers to people.
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GeorgeλŠ” μ†”μ§νžˆ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€λ³΄λ‹€ 숫자λ₯Ό μ„ ν˜Έν–ˆμ§€μš”.
04:19
But he said this fantastic thing about their working relationship.
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κ·ΈλŠ” κ·Έλ“€μ˜ 이 ν™˜μƒμ μΈ 업무 관계에 λŒ€ν•΄μ„œ,
04:23
He said, "My job is to prove Dr. Stewart wrong."
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"λ‚΄ 일은 Stewart박사가 ν‹€λ Έλ‹€λŠ” 것을 증λͺ…ν•˜λŠ” 것이닀."
04:30
He actively sought disconfirmation.
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라며, μ—΄μ‹¬νžˆ 뢀당성을 μž…μ¦ν•˜λ € ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
04:33
Different ways of looking at her models,
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κ·Έλ…€μ˜ λͺ¨λΈκ³Ό 톡계λ₯Ό λ‹€λ₯Έ λ°©μ‹μœΌλ‘œ 보고,
04:35
at her statistics, different ways of crunching the data
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자료λ₯Ό λ‹€λ₯Έ λ°©μ‹μœΌλ‘œ μ΄ν•΄ν•˜λ €λŠ” λ…Έλ ₯은 μ „λΆ€
04:39
in order to disprove her.
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κ·Έλ…€μ˜ 뢀당함을 보이기 μœ„ν•΄μ„œμ˜€μ§€μš”.
04:42
He saw his job as creating conflict around her theories.
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κ·ΈλŠ” μžμ‹ μ˜ μž‘μ—…μ„ κ·Έλ…€μ˜ 이둠을 λ‘˜λŸ¬μ‹Ό κ°ˆλ“±μ„
04:47
Because it was only by not being able to prove
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λ§Œλ“€μ–΄λ‚΄λŠ” κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œ λ΄€μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ™œλƒν•˜λ©΄, 단지 κ·Έλ…€κ°€
04:51
that she was wrong,
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ν‹€λ Έλ‹€λŠ” 것을 증λͺ…ν•˜λŠ” 것이라든가, κ·Έλ…€ 슀슀둜 μžμ‹ μ—κ²Œ
04:53
that George could give Alice the confidence she needed
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ν™•μ‹€ν•΄μ§ˆ ν•„μš”κ°€ μžˆλ‹€λŠ” 확신을 μ‹¬μ–΄μ£ΌλŠ” κ²ƒμœΌλ‘œλŠ”
04:56
to know that she was right.
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λΆ€μ‘±ν•  것이라고 μƒκ°ν–ˆκΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ΄μ§€μš”.
04:59
It's a fantastic model of collaboration --
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이건 κ·Έμ € λ©”μ•„λ¦¬λ‚˜ λ“€λ €μ£ΌλŠ” νŒŒνŠΈλ„ˆκ°€ μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:04
thinking partners who aren't echo chambers.
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ν™˜μƒμ μΈ ν˜‘λ™ λͺ¨λΈμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:09
I wonder how many of us have,
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μ €λŠ” 우리 쀑 μ–Όλ§ˆλ‚˜ 그런 λ™λ£Œμ™€ ν•¨κ»˜ ν•˜λŠ”μ§€, μ•„λ‹ˆ,
05:11
or dare to have, such collaborators.
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감히 μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 그런 λ™λ£Œμ™€ ν•¨κ»˜ ν•  수 μžˆμ„μ§€ μ˜λ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:18
Alice and George were very good at conflict.
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Alice와 GeorgeλŠ” μΆ©λŒμ— 맀우 λŠ₯ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:22
They saw it as thinking.
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그듀은 μΆ©λŒμ„ 사고(思考)κ³Όμ •μœΌλ‘œ μƒκ°ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:25
So what does that kind of constructive conflict require?
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그럼, 그런 건섀적인 κ°ˆλ“±μ„ μœ„ν•΄μ„  무엇이 ν•„μš”ν• κΉŒμš”?
05:29
Well, first of all, it requires that we find people
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κΈ€μŽ„μš”, 무엇보닀도, μš°λ¦¬μ™€λŠ” 맀우 λ‹€λ₯Έ
05:33
who are very different from ourselves.
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μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ„ μ°ΎλŠ” 것이 ν•„μš”ν•  κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:35
That means we have to resist the neurobiological drive,
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 신경생물학적 μ˜μ‹μ˜ 흐름을 κ±°μŠ¬λŸ¬μ•Ό ν•œλ‹¨ κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:40
which means that we really prefer people mostly like ourselves,
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그건, μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 사싀 ꡉμž₯히 '우리슀러운' μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ„
05:44
and it means we have to seek out people
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μ„ ν˜Έν•œλ‹¨ 의미죠. 그리고 그건,
05:46
with different backgrounds, different disciplines,
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μš°λ¦¬μ™€λŠ” λ‹€λ₯Έ λ°°κ²½, ꡐ윑, 사고체계 그리고 λ‹€λ₯Έ κ²½ν—˜μ„
05:49
different ways of thinking and different experience,
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가진 μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ„ μ°Ύμ•„μ•Όλ§Œ ν•œλ‹€λŠ” μ˜λ―Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
05:53
and find ways to engage with them.
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κ²Œλ‹€κ°€, κ·Έλ“€κ³Ό ν•¨κ»˜ ν•  수 μžˆλŠ” 방법도 μ°Ύμ•„μ•Όλ§Œ ν•˜μ§€μš”.
05:57
That requires a lot of patience and a lot of energy.
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ꡉμž₯ν•œ 인내와 μ—λ„ˆμ§€λ₯Ό μš”ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:01
And the more I've thought about this,
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μ „ 이걸 μƒκ°ν•΄μ˜¬ λ•Œλ§ˆλ‹€, 생각할 λ•Œλ§ˆλ‹€
06:03
the more I think, really, that that's a kind of love.
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정말이지 이건, μ‚¬λž‘μ˜ 일쒅이 μ•„λ‹κΉŒ ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:08
Because you simply won't commit that kind of energy
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μ™œλƒν•˜λ©΄, λ§Œμ•½ μ—¬λŸ¬λΆ„μ΄ 별 관심이 μ—†λ‹€λ©΄ 그런 μ—λ„ˆμ§€μ™€
06:11
and time if you don't really care.
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μ‹œκ°„μ„ μŸκ² λƒλŠ” κ²ƒμ΄μ§€μš”. 그리고 또 μš°λ¦¬λŠ”
06:16
And it also means that we have to be prepared to change our minds.
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우리의 νƒœλ„λ₯Ό λ°”κΏ€ μ€€λΉ„κ°€ λ˜μ–΄μžˆμ–΄μ•Όλ§Œ 함을 μ˜λ―Έν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:21
Alice's daughter told me
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Alice의 λ”°λ‹˜μ΄ 이런 말을 ν–ˆμ—ˆμ–΄μš”,
06:23
that every time Alice went head-to-head with a fellow scientist,
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Aliceκ°€ λ™λ£Œ κ³Όν•™μžλ“€κ³Ό λŒ€λ©΄ν•  λ•Œλ©΄ 늘, λ™λ£Œλ“€μ€
06:26
they made her think and think and think again.
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Aliceλ₯Ό μƒκ°ν•˜κ³  μƒκ°ν•˜κ³  또 μƒκ°ν•˜κ²Œ λ§Œλ“€μ—ˆλ‹€κ³ μš”.
06:30
"My mother," she said, "My mother didn't enjoy a fight,
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"저희 μ–΄λ¨Έλ‹ˆλŠ” 싸움을 즐기지 μ•Šμ•˜μ§€λ§Œ,
06:34
but she was really good at them."
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κ·Έλ“€μ—κ²Œ 무척 μž˜ν•΄μ£Όμ…¨μ—ˆμ£ ." λΌλ”κ΅°μš”.
06:39
So it's one thing to do that in a one-to-one relationship.
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그것이 1λŒ€1 κ΄€κ³„μ—μ„œ μœ λ…ν•΄μ•Όν•  것은 λ”± ν•˜λ‚˜μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
06:44
But it strikes me that the biggest problems we face,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ, μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μ§λ©΄ν•œ κ°€μž₯ 큰 λ¬Έμ œλ“€
06:47
many of the biggest disasters that we've experienced,
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ κ²½ν—˜ν•΄μ˜¨ κ°€μž₯ 큰 μž¬μ•™λ“€ μ€‘μ˜ λ§Žμ€ 것듀이
06:50
mostly haven't come from individuals,
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κ°œμΈμœΌλ‘œλΆ€ν„° λΉ„λ‘―λœ 것이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ,
06:52
they've come from organizations,
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μ‘°μ§μœΌλ‘œλΆ€ν„°, λͺ‡λͺ‡μ€ ꡭ가보닀도 더 큰
06:54
some of them bigger than countries,
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수백, 수천, 심지어 수백만의 생λͺ…을 μ’Œμš°ν•˜λŠ”
06:56
many of them capable of affecting hundreds,
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그런 μ‘°μ§λ“€λ‘œλΆ€ν„° λΉ„λ‘―λœλ‹€λŠ” 것이
06:58
thousands, even millions of lives.
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제 머리λ₯Ό μΉ©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:02
So how do organizations think?
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쑰직은 그럼 μ–΄λ–€ μ‹μœΌλ‘œ μ‚¬κ³ ν•©λ‹ˆκΉŒ?
07:06
Well, for the most part, they don't.
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λŒ€λΆ€λΆ„μ˜ 경우, μ‚¬κ³ ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ£ .
07:10
And that isn't because they don't want to,
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그리고 그건 그듀이 ν•˜κΈ° μ‹«μ–΄μ„œκ°€ μ•„λ‹ˆλΌ
07:13
it's really because they can't.
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ν•  μˆ˜κ°€ μ—†κΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:16
And they can't because the people inside of them
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그리고 그건, 쑰직 λ‚΄μ˜ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ΄ μΆ©λŒμ„
07:19
are too afraid of conflict.
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λ„ˆλ¬΄λ‚˜λ„ λ‘λ €μ›Œν•˜κΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμ΄μ§€μš”.
07:23
In surveys of European and American executives,
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유럽과 미ꡭ의 κ²½μ˜μ§„μ„ λŒ€μƒμœΌλ‘œ ν•œ μ„€λ¬Έ κ²°κ³Ό,
07:26
fully 85 percent of them acknowledged
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85νΌμ„ΌνŠΈκ°€ 직μž₯ λ‚΄μ—μ„œ, 올리기 κΊΌλ¦¬λŠ”
07:29
that they had issues or concerns at work
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μ£Όμ œλ‚˜ 걱정거리듀이
07:33
that they were afraid to raise.
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μžˆλ‹€κ³  μΈμ •ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:36
Afraid of the conflict that that would provoke,
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κ°ˆλ“±μ΄ 유발될 것에 λŒ€ν•œ 두렀움
07:39
afraid to get embroiled in arguments
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μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ 닀뀄야 할지 λͺ¨λ₯΄κ² λŠ”
07:42
that they did not know how to manage,
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λ…ΌμŸμ— νœ˜λ§λ¦¬λŠ” 것에 λŒ€ν•œ 두렀움
07:44
and felt that they were bound to lose.
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그리고 μ§€κ²Œ λ˜μ§€ μ•Šμ„κΉŒ ν•˜λŠ”.
07:48
Eighty-five percent is a really big number.
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85νΌμ„ΌνŠΈλŠ” 정말 큰 μˆ«μžμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
07:55
It means that organizations mostly can't do
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이건 George와 Aliceκ°€ μ„±κ³΅μ μœΌλ‘œ ν•΄λ‚Έ 일을
07:57
what George and Alice so triumphantly did.
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λŒ€λΆ€λΆ„μ˜ 쑰직은 ν•  수 μ—†λ‹€λŠ” 것을 μ˜λ―Έν•˜μ§€μš”.
08:00
They can't think together.
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그듀은 ν•¨κ»˜ 생각할 수 μ—†μŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:04
And it means that people like many of us,
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그리고 이건 쑰직을 μš΄μ˜ν•˜κ³ , 졜고의
08:06
who have run organizations,
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μ‚¬λžŒμ„ μ°ΎκΈ° μœ„ν•΄ 우리의 'κΈΈ'을 λ²—μ–΄λ‚˜κ³  μžˆλŠ”
08:09
and gone out of our way to try to find the very best people we can,
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μš°λ¦¬μ™€ 같은 λ§Žμ€ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€ λŒ€λΆ€λΆ„μ€, κ·Έλ“€λ‘œλΆ€ν„°
08:12
mostly fail to get the best out of them.
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졜고의 μ„±κ³Όλ₯Ό μ΄λŒμ–΄λ‚΄λŠ”λ° μ‹€νŒ¨ν•œλ‹€λŠ” 것을 μ˜λ―Έν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:18
So how do we develop the skills that we need?
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그럼, μš°λ¦¬κ°€ ν•„μš”λ‘œ ν•˜λŠ” κΈ°λŸ‰μ„ μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ κ°œλ°œν•  수 μžˆλ‚˜μš”?
08:22
Because it does take skill and practice, too.
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기술과 μ‹€μ²œμ΄ λ‹€ ν•„μš”ν•œ 일이지 μ•Šκ² μŠ΅λ‹ˆκΉŒ.
08:26
If we aren't going to be afraid of conflict,
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λ§Œμ•½ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ κ°ˆλ“±μ„ λ‘λ €μ›Œν•˜μ§€ μ•ŠλŠ”λ‹€λ©΄
08:29
we have to see it as thinking,
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ κ°ˆλ“±μ„ 사고 κ³Όμ •μœΌλ‘œ λ΄μ•Όλ§Œ ν•œλ‹€λ©΄
08:31
and then we have to get really good at it.
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μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 정말 μ’‹μ•„μ§ˆ 수 μžˆμ„ κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:36
So, recently, I worked with an executive named Joe,
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μ΅œκ·Όμ— μ €λŠ” JoeλΌλŠ” 간뢀와 ν•¨κ»˜ μΌν–ˆμ—ˆλŠ”λ°μš”.
08:40
and Joe worked for a medical device company.
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JoeλŠ” 의료 μž₯λΉ„ 업계에 κ·Όλ¬΄ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:43
And Joe was very worried about the device that he was working on.
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그런데, JoeλŠ” μžμ‹ μ΄ λ‹€λ£¨λŠ” μž₯비듀을
08:46
He thought that it was too complicated
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ꡉμž₯히 κ±±μ •ν•˜λ”κ΅°μš”. 맀우 λ³΅μž‘ν•˜λ‹€κ³  μƒκ°ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
08:49
and he thought that its complexity
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그런 'λ³΅μž‘ν•¨'이 μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ„ ν•΄μΉ  수 μžˆλŠ”
08:51
created margins of error that could really hurt people.
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여지가 λœλ‹€κ³  μ—¬κ²Όμ–΄μš”.
08:56
He was afraid of doing damage to the patients he was trying to help.
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κ·ΈλŠ” μžμ‹ μ΄ λ„μš°λ €λŠ” ν™˜μžλ“€μ„ ν•΄μΉ κΉŒλ΄ λ‘λ €μ›Œν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:00
But when he looked around his organization,
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그런데, κ·Έκ°€ νšŒμ‚¬λ₯Ό λ‘˜λŸ¬λ΄€μ„ λ•Œ 아무도
09:02
nobody else seemed to be at all worried.
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그런 κ±Έ κ±±μ •ν•˜λŠ” κ²ƒμ²˜λŸΌ 보이지 μ•Šμ•˜λ‹€κ³  ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:06
So, he didn't really want to say anything.
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κ·Έλž˜μ„œ κ·ΈλŠ” 아무 것도 λ§ν•˜κ³  싢지 μ•Šμ•˜μ£ .
09:09
After all, maybe they knew something he didn't.
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μ•„λ§ˆ λ‹€λ₯Έ μ‚¬λžŒλ“€μ€ Joeκ°€ λͺ¨λ₯΄λŠ” κ±Έ μ•Œμ•˜μ„μ§€λ„ λͺ¨λ¦…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:11
Maybe he'd look stupid.
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μ•„λ§ˆλ„ κ·ΈλŠ” 바보같이 λ³΄μ˜€μ„ μˆ˜λ„ μžˆμ–΄μš”.
09:14
But he kept worrying about it,
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ κ·ΈλŠ” κ³„μ†ν•΄μ„œ κ±±μ •ν–ˆκ³ 
09:16
and he worried about it so much that he got to the point
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λ„ˆλ¬΄ κ±±μ •ν•œ λ‚˜λ¨Έμ§€ κ·Έκ°€ μ‚¬λž‘ν–ˆλ˜ 직μž₯을
09:19
where he thought the only thing he could do
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λ– λ‚˜λŠ” κ²ƒλ§Œμ΄, μžμ‹ μ΄ ν•  수 μžˆλŠ” μœ μΌν•œ 일이라고
09:21
was leave a job he loved.
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μƒκ°ν•˜κ²Œ λμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:25
In the end, Joe and I found a way
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λ§ˆμΉ¨λ‚΄, Joe와 μ €λŠ” 그의 걱정을
09:29
for him to raise his concerns.
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곡둠화할 방법을 μ°Ύμ•˜μ–΄μš”.
09:31
And what happened then is what almost always
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그리고 그건, 이런 μƒν™©μ—μ„œλŠ” μ–Έμ œλ‚˜
09:34
happens in this situation.
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λ²Œμ–΄μ§€λŠ” μΌμ΄μ§€μš”.
09:36
It turned out everybody had exactly the same
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λ°”λ‘œ, λ‹€λ₯Έ λͺ¨λ“  이듀도 λ˜‘κ°™μ€ 질문과
09:39
questions and doubts.
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μ˜μ‹¬μ„ ν•˜κ³  μžˆλ‹€λŠ” μ μ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:41
So now Joe had allies. They could think together.
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JoeλŠ” 동맹ꡰ을 μ°Ύμ•˜μ£ . ν•¨κ»˜ 머리λ₯Ό λ§žλŒ€κ²Œ λμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:45
And yes, there was a lot of conflict and debate
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그리고, λ„€, μ—„μ²­λ‚œ 좩돌과 ν† λ‘ κ³Ό λ…ΌμŸμ΄ μžˆμ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
09:48
and argument, but that allowed everyone around the table
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ 그건 λͺ¨λ“  이듀을 ν…Œμ΄λΈ”λ‘œ λΆˆλŸ¬λ‚΄μ–΄
09:52
to be creative, to solve the problem,
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창의적으둜 λ§Œλ“€μ–΄, 문제λ₯Ό ν•΄κ²°ν•˜λ„λ‘ λ§Œλ“€μ—ˆκ³ 
09:56
and to change the device.
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κ²°κ΅­ μž₯λΉ„λ₯Ό λ°”κΏ€ 수 μžˆμ—ˆμ§€μš”.
10:01
Joe was what a lot of people might think of
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λ§Žμ€ 이듀이 Joeλ₯Ό λ‚΄λΆ€κ³ λ°œμžλΌκ³  여길지 λͺ¨λ₯΄λŠ”
10:04
as a whistle-blower,
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그런 μƒν™©μ΄μ—ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:06
except that like almost all whistle-blowers,
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λ‹€λ₯Έ λ‚΄λΆ€κ³ λ°œμžλ“€μ²˜λŸΌ
10:09
he wasn't a crank at all,
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κ΄΄μ§œμ΄μ§€λŠ” μ•Šμ€ κ²ƒλ§Œ λΉΌλ©΄ λ§μ΄μ§€μš”.
10:11
he was passionately devoted to the organization
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κ·ΈλŠ” μ—΄μ •μ μœΌλ‘œ 쑰직에 ν—Œμ‹ ν–ˆκ³  λ˜ν•œ νšŒμ‚¬κ°€ μΆ”κ΅¬ν•˜λŠ”
10:15
and the higher purposes that that organization served.
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보닀 더 높은(근본적인) λͺ©ν‘œμ— ν—Œμ‹ ν–ˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:18
But he had been so afraid of conflict,
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ν•˜μ§€λ§Œ JoeλŠ” 침묡을 훨씬 λ‘λ €μ›Œν•˜κΈ°κΉŒμ§€
10:22
until finally he became more afraid of the silence.
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μΆ©λŒμ„ λ„ˆλ¬΄λ‚˜ λ‘λ €μ›Œν–ˆμ—ˆμ§€μš”.
10:27
And when he dared to speak,
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Joeκ°€ '감히' 말을 κΊΌλƒˆμ„ λ•Œ,
10:29
he discovered much more inside himself
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κ·ΈλŠ” 슀슀둜의 내면을 훨씬 잘 μ•Œκ²Œ λμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:32
and much more give in the system than he had ever imagined.
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그리고 μƒμƒν–ˆλ˜ 것보닀도 훨씬, μ‹œμŠ€ν…œμ— κ΅΄λ³΅ν•˜κ²Œ λμ§€μš”.
10:38
And his colleagues don't think of him as a crank.
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그의 λ™λ£Œλ“€μ€ κ·Έλ₯Ό 괴짜둜 보지 μ•ŠμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:41
They think of him as a leader.
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Joeλ₯Ό 리더라고 μƒκ°ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
10:46
So, how do we have these conversations more easily
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자, μ–΄λ–»κ²Œ ν•˜λ©΄ 이런 λŒ€ν™”λ₯Ό 훨씬 μˆ˜μ›”ν•˜κ²Œ
10:50
and more often?
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그리고 자주 ν•  수 μžˆμ„κΉŒμš”?
10:52
Well, the University of Delft
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Delft λŒ€ν•™μ—μ„œλŠ” 박사과정에 μžˆλŠ”
10:54
requires that its PhD students
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ν•™μƒλ“€λ‘œ ν•˜μ—¬κΈˆ 본인이 λ³€λ‘ ν•  수 μžˆλŠ” λͺ…μ œ
10:57
have to submit five statements that they're prepared to defend.
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닀섯가지λ₯Ό μ œμΆœν•˜λ„λ‘ ν•˜κ³  μžˆμŠ΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:01
It doesn't really matter what the statements are about,
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λͺ…μ œμ˜ λ‚΄μš©μ΄ λ¬΄μ—‡μΈμ§€λŠ” μ€‘μš”ν•˜μ§€ μ•Šμ•„μš”
11:04
what matters is that the candidates are willing and able
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μ€‘μš”ν•œ 것은 학생듀이 기꺼이 그리고 λŠ₯히
11:08
to stand up to authority.
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κΆŒμœ„μ— λ§žμ„€ 수 μžˆλŠ”κ°€ ν•˜λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:10
I think it's a fantastic system,
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μ €λŠ” 이 μ‹œμŠ€ν…œμ΄ ꡉμž₯히 멋지닀고 μƒκ°ν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:13
but I think leaving it to PhD candidates
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ 박사과정 ν•™μƒμ—κ²Œλ§Œ μ μš©ν•˜λŠ” 것은
11:15
is far too few people, and way too late in life.
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λͺ‡λͺ‡ 학생듀에겐 μ—­μ‹œ λ©€κ³  또 삢에 μžˆμ–΄μ„œλ„ λ„ˆλ¬΄ λŠ¦μ–΄μš”.
11:20
I think we need to be teaching these skills
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μ „, μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 이런 κΈ°μˆ λ“€μ„ 아이듀과 성인듀 κ³„λ°œ(ε•“η™Ό)의
11:23
to kids and adults at every stage of their development,
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λͺ¨λ“  λ‹¨κ³„μ—μ„œ κ°€λ₯΄μΉ  ν•„μš”κ°€ μžˆλ‹€κ³  λ΄…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:27
if we want to have thinking organizations
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μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μ‚¬κ³ ν•˜λŠ” 쑰직, μ‚¬κ³ ν•˜λŠ” μ‚¬νšŒλ₯Ό
11:29
and a thinking society.
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λ§Œλ“€κ³  μ‹Άλ‹€λ©΄ λ§μ΄μ§€μš”.
11:33
The fact is that most of the biggest catastrophes that we've witnessed
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λΆ„λͺ…ν•œ 사싀은, μš°λ¦¬κ°€ λͺ©κ²©ν•œ λ”μ°ν•œ μž¬μ•™μ˜ λŒ€λΆ€λΆ„μ΄
11:39
rarely come from information that is secret or hidden.
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λΉ„λ°€μ΄κ±°λ‚˜ 감좰진 μ •λ³΄μ—μ„œ λΉ„λ‘―λ˜λŠ” 것이 μ•„λ‹ˆλΌλŠ” κ²λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:45
It comes from information that is freely available and out there,
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그것은 자유둭게 μ΄μš©ν•  수 μžˆλŠ”, λ°”λ‘œ μ €κΈ° 놓여진
11:49
but that we are willfully blind to,
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 기꺼이 λˆˆμ„ 감은 μ •λ³΄λ‘œλΆ€ν„° μ˜΅λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:52
because we can't handle, don't want to handle,
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μ™œλƒν•˜λ©΄, μš°λ¦¬λŠ” 그것이 μΌμœΌν‚¬ μΆ©λŒμ„ λ‹€λ£° 수 μ—†κ³ 
11:55
the conflict that it provokes.
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닀루기 μ‹«κΈ° λ•Œλ¬Έμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
11:59
But when we dare to break that silence,
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 감히 κ·Έ 침묡을 κΉ° λ•Œ
12:02
or when we dare to see,
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ν˜Ήμ€ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 감히 λ³Ό λ•Œ
12:05
and we create conflict,
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그리고 μš°λ¦¬κ°€ μΆ©λŒμ„ μΌμœΌν‚¬ λ•Œ
12:07
we enable ourselves and the people around us
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λΉ„λ‘œμ†Œ 우리 슀슀둜 그리고 우리λ₯Ό λ‘˜λŸ¬μ‹Ό 이듀이
12:10
to do our very best thinking.
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졜고의 생각을 ν•  수 있게 λ˜λŠ” κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:14
Open information is fantastic,
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μ •λ³΄μ˜ κ°œλ°©μ€ ν™˜μƒμ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:17
open networks are essential.
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μ˜€ν”ˆ λ„€νŠΈμ›Œν¬λŠ” ν•„μˆ˜μ μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:20
But the truth won't set us free
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κ·ΈλŸ¬λ‚˜ μš°λ¦¬κ°€ 진싀을 μ΄μš©ν•  기술과 μŠ΅κ΄€μ„ 읡히고
12:22
until we develop the skills and the habit and the talent
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재λŠ₯을 κ³„λ°œν•˜λ©° 그리고 도덕적 용기λ₯Ό λ‚΄κΈ° μ „κΉŒμ§€λŠ”,
12:26
and the moral courage to use it.
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진싀이 우리λ₯Ό μžμœ μΌ€ ν•˜λŠ” 것은 μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:30
Openness isn't the end.
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'개방'이 끝이 μ•„λ‹™λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:34
It's the beginning.
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그건 'μ‹œμž‘'μž…λ‹ˆλ‹€.
12:37
(Applause)
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(λ°•μˆ˜)
이 μ›Ήμ‚¬μ΄νŠΈ 정보

이 μ‚¬μ΄νŠΈλŠ” μ˜μ–΄ ν•™μŠ΅μ— μœ μš©ν•œ YouTube λ™μ˜μƒμ„ μ†Œκ°œν•©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ „ 세계 졜고의 μ„ μƒλ‹˜λ“€μ΄ κ°€λ₯΄μΉ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μˆ˜μ—…μ„ 보게 될 κ²ƒμž…λ‹ˆλ‹€. 각 λ™μ˜μƒ νŽ˜μ΄μ§€μ— ν‘œμ‹œλ˜λŠ” μ˜μ–΄ μžλ§‰μ„ 더블 ν΄λ¦­ν•˜λ©΄ κ·Έκ³³μ—μ„œ λ™μ˜μƒμ΄ μž¬μƒλ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. λΉ„λ””μ˜€ μž¬μƒμ— 맞좰 μžλ§‰μ΄ μŠ€ν¬λ‘€λ©λ‹ˆλ‹€. μ˜κ²¬μ΄λ‚˜ μš”μ²­μ΄ μžˆλŠ” 경우 이 문의 양식을 μ‚¬μš©ν•˜μ—¬ λ¬Έμ˜ν•˜μ‹­μ‹œμ˜€.

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