Michael Sandel: Why we shouldn't trust markets with our civic life

602,819 views ใƒป 2013-10-07

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

๋ฒˆ์—ญ: K Bang ๊ฒ€ํ† : JunHo Lee
00:13
Here's a question we need to rethink together:
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ๋‹ค์‹œ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ์งˆ๋ฌธ์ด ํ•˜๋‚˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:17
What should be the role of money
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์‚ฌํšŒ์—์„œ ๋ˆ๊ณผ ์‹œ์žฅ์˜ ์—ญํ• ์ด
00:20
and markets in our societies?
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๋ฌด์—‡์ด ๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š”๊ฑธ๊นŒ์š”?
00:23
Today, there are very few things
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์˜ค๋Š˜๋‚ , ๋ˆ์œผ๋กœ ์‚ด ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
00:26
that money can't buy.
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๊ฑฐ์˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:28
If you're sentenced to a jail term
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๋งŒ์•ฝ์— ์บ˜๋ฆฌํฌ๋‹ˆ์•„์˜ ์‚ฐํƒ€๋ฐ”๋ฐ”๋ผ์— ์žˆ๋Š”
00:30
in Santa Barbara, California,
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๊ต๋„์†Œ์— ์ˆ˜๊ฐ๋˜์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ
00:32
you should know
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๊ธฐ์กด ์ˆ˜๊ฐ ์‹œ์„ค์ด
00:34
that if you don't like the standard accommodations,
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๋งˆ์Œ์— ๋“ค์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ์ƒํ™ฉ์ด๋ผ๋ฉด
00:36
you can buy a prison cell upgrade.
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๋ˆ์„ ์ฃผ๊ณ  ๊ฐ๋ฐฉ์„ ์ƒํ–ฅํ•˜์—ฌ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•  ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:41
It's true. For how much, do you think?
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์‚ฌ์‹ค์ด์—์š”. ์–ผ๋งˆ๋ฉด ๋ ๊นŒ์š”?
00:44
What would you guess?
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์•Œ๋งˆ๋ฉด ๋˜๊ฒ ์–ด์š”?
00:46
Five hundred dollars?
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500 ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ์š”?
00:47
It's not the Ritz-Carlton. It's a jail!
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๋ฆฌ์ธ -์นผํŠผ ํ˜ธํ…”์ด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ ๊ฐ๋ฐฉ์ด์—์š”!
00:51
Eighty-two dollars a night.
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ํ•˜๋ฃจ์— 82๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:53
Eighty-two dollars a night.
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ํ•˜๋ฃจ์— 82๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:55
If you go to an amusement park
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๋†€์ด ๊ณต์›์— ๊ฐ”๋Š”๋ฐ
00:57
and don't want to stand in the long lines
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ํƒ€๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€ ๊ธฐ๊ตฌ ์•ž์˜ ๊ธด ์ค„์—
01:00
for the popular rides,
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์„œ์žˆ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์ง€ ์•Š์œผ๋ฉด
01:01
there is now a solution.
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ํ•ด๊ฒฐ ๋ฐฉ์•ˆ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:04
In many theme parks, you can pay extra
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๋ฏพ์€ ๋†€์ด ๊ณต์›์—์„œ ๋ˆ์„ ์ข€ ๋” ๋‚ด๋ฉด
01:09
to jump to the head of the line.
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๋งจ ์•ž์— ๊ฐ€์„œ ๋ฐ”๋กœ ํƒˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
01:10
They call them Fast Track or VIP tickets.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฑธ '๊ธ‰ํ–‰' ๋˜๋Š” 'VIP' ์ž…์žฅ๊ถŒ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•˜์ฃ .
01:15
And this isn't only happening in amusement parks.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ๊ฒŒ ๋†€์ด ๊ณต์›์—๋งŒ ์žˆ๋Š”๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”.
01:18
In Washington, D.C., long lines,
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์›Œ์‹ฑํ„ด DC ์—์„œ๋„
01:21
queues sometimes form
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๋•Œ๋กœ๋Š” ๊ธด ์ค„์ด
01:23
for important Congressional hearings.
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์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ์˜ํšŒ ์ฒญ๋ฌธํšŒ์— ๋Š˜์–ด์„œ๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:27
Now some people don't like to wait in long queues,
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์–ด๋–ค ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ๊ธด ์ค„์— ์„œ์žˆ๊ณ  ์‹ถ์–ดํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์ฃ .
01:31
maybe overnight, even in the rain.
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๋•Œ๋กœ๋Š” ๋ฐค์„ ์ƒˆ๊ณ  ๋น„๋ฅผ ๋งž๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
01:33
So now, for lobbyists and others
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์ด์ œ ๋กœ๋น„์ŠคํŠธ๋‚˜ ๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ๋๋“ 
01:35
who are very keen to attend these hearings
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๊ณต์ฒญํšŒ์—๋Š” ์ •๋ง๋กœ ์ฐธ์„ํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€๋ฐ
01:37
but don't like to wait, there are companies,
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๊ธฐ๋‹ค๋ฆฌ๊ธฐ ์‹ซ๋‹ค๋ฉด ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ์ฐพ์•„๊ฐ‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:40
line-standing companies,
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์ค„์„ ๋Œ€์‹  ์„œ์ฃผ๋Š” ํšŒ์‚ฌ์—์š”.
01:42
and you can go to them.
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๊ฑฐ๊ธฐ ๊ฐ€์„œ
01:44
You can pay them a certain amount of money,
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๋ˆ์„ ์ข€ ์ฃผ๋ฉด ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:46
they hire homeless people and others who need a job
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ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ผ์„ ํ•˜๊ฒ ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋…ธ์ˆ™์ธ์ด๋‚˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์„ ์จ์„œ
01:49
to stand waiting in the line for as long as it takes,
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๊ธฐ๋‹ค๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋™์•ˆ ๋Œ€์‹  ์ค„์„ ์„œ์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:52
and the lobbyist, just before the hearing begins,
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๋กœ๋น„์ŠคํŠธ๋Š” ๊ณต์ฒญํšŒ๊ฐ€ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์ง์ „์—
01:55
can take his or her place at the head of the line
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๋งจ ์•ž์ค„๋กœ ๊ฐ€์„œ ์ž๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•œ ๋‹ค์Œ
01:58
and a seat in the front of the room.
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๊ณต์ฒญํšŒ์žฅ ๋งจ ์ฒซ์ค„์— ์•‰๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:01
Paid line standing.
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๋ˆ์„ ๋‚ด๊ณ  ์ค„์„ ์„œ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
02:04
It's happening, the recourse to market mechanisms
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์ผ์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์‹œ์žฅ ์›๋ฆฌ์— ๋งก๊ธฐ๋Š”๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
02:07
and market thinking and market solutions,
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์‹œ์žฅ์ฃผ์˜์  ์‚ฌ๊ณ , ์‹œ์žฅ์ฃผ์˜์  ํ•ด๊ฒฐ์ฑ…์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:10
in bigger arenas.
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ํฌ๊ฒŒ ๋ณด๋ฉด ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
02:13
Take the way we fight our wars.
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์ „์Ÿ์„ ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ์‹์„ ์˜ˆ๋กœ ๋“ค์–ด๋ณผ๊นŒ์š”.
02:15
Did you know that, in Iraq and Afghanistan,
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์ด๋ผํฌ์™€ ์•„ํ”„๊ฐ€๋‹ˆ์Šคํƒ„ ์ „์—๋Š”
02:18
there were more private military contractors on the ground
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๋ฏผ๊ฐ„ ๊ตฐ์‚ฌ ๊ธฐ์—…์˜ ์šฉ๋ณ‘๋“ค์ด
02:22
than there were U.S. military troops?
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๋ฏธ๊ตฐ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋งŽ์•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ์•Œ๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
02:26
Now this isn't because we had a public debate
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ '์ „์Ÿ์„ ์‚ฌ๊ธฐ์—…๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์™ธ์ฃผ๋กœ ๋งก๊ธธ ๊ฒƒ์ธ๊ฐ€?'์™€ ๊ฐ™์€
02:29
about whether we wanted to outsource war
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์ฃผ์ œ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ–๊ณ  ๊ณต๊ณต์˜ ๋…ผ์˜๋ฅผ ๊ฑฐ์ณ์„œ
02:32
to private companies,
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๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚œ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:34
but this is what has happened.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿผ์—๋„ ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:37
Over the past three decades,
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์ง€๋‚œ 30๋…„๊ฐ„
02:40
we have lived through a quiet revolution.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์กฐ์šฉํ•œ ํ˜๋ช… ์†์—์„œ ์‚ด์•„์™”์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:44
We've drifted almost without realizing it
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๊ทธ ๊ณผ์ •์„๊ฑฐ์˜ ์ธ์‹ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•œ ์ฑ„,
02:49
from having a market economy
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'์‹œ์žฅ ๊ฒฝ์ œ'์—์„œ
02:52
to becoming market societies.
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'์‹œ์žฅ ์‚ฌํšŒ'๋กœ ํ˜๋Ÿฌ์™”์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:56
The difference is this: A market economy is a tool,
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๊ทธ ์ฐจ์ด๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค: ์‹œ์žฅ ๊ฒฝ์ œ๋ผ๋Š” ๋„๊ตฌ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:59
a valuable and effective tool,
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์ƒ์‚ฐ์ ์ธ ํ™œ๋™์„ ์กฐ์งํ™”ํ•˜๋Š”
03:01
for organizing productive activity,
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๊ฐ€์น˜์žˆ๊ณ  ํšจ๊ณผ์ ์ธ ๋„๊ตฌ์ง€์š”.
03:04
but a market society is a place where
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ํ•œํŽธ ์‹œ์žฅ ์‚ฌํšŒ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์˜ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฑธ
03:07
almost everything is up for sale.
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์‚ฌ๊ณ  ํŒ” ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์‚ฌํšŒ๋ฅผ ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:10
It's a way of life, in which market thinking
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์ผ์ข…์˜ ์ƒํ™œ ๋ฐฉ์‹์ด์ฃ .
03:14
and market values begin to dominate
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์‹œ์žฅ์  ์‚ฌ๊ณ ์™€ ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€
03:16
every aspect of life:
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์‚ถ์˜ ๋ชจ๋“  ๋ฉด์„ ์ง€๋ฐฐํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌํšŒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:20
personal relations, family life, health, education,
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์ธ๊ฐ„ ๊ด€๊ณ„, ๊ฐ€์กฑ ์ƒํ™œ, ๊ฑด๊ฐ•, ๊ต์œก,
03:25
politics, law, civic life.
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์ •์น˜, ๋ฒ•, ์‹œ๋ฏผ ์ƒํ™œ๊นŒ์ง€๋„์š”.
03:28
Now, why worry? Why worry about our becoming
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์ž, ์™œ ๊ฑฑ์ •ํ•˜๋Š๋ƒ๊ตฌ์š”? ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์‚ฌํšŒ๊ฐ€ ์‹œ์žฅ ์‚ฌํšŒ๋กœ ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฑธ
03:33
market societies?
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์™œ ๊ฑฑ์ •ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
03:36
For two reasons, I think.
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์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—” ๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ด์œ ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:39
One of them has to do with inequality.
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ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š” ๋ถˆํ‰๋“ฑ์— ๊ด€๋ จ๋œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:44
The more things money can buy,
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๋ˆ์œผ๋กœ ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ๊ฒƒ์„ ์‚ด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„์ˆ˜๋ก
03:47
the more affluence, or the lack of it, matters.
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๋ˆ์˜ ๋งŽ๊ณ  ์ ์Œ์ด ํ›จ์”ฌ ๋” ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
03:51
If the only thing that money determined
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๋ˆ์— ์˜ํ•ด ๊ฒฐ์ •๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด
03:54
was access to yachts or fancy vacations or BMWs,
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์š”ํŠธ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ–๊ฑฐ๋‚˜, ๋ฉ‹์ง„ ํœด๊ฐ€๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋‚ด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜, BMW๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋ฟ์ด๋ผ๋ฉด
04:00
then inequality wouldn't matter very much.
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๋ถˆํ‰๋“ฑ์€ ํฌ๊ฒŒ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:04
But when money comes increasingly to govern
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ˆ์ด ๋ณธ์งˆ์ ์œผ๋กœ ํ–‰๋ณตํ•œ ์‚ถ์—
04:08
access to the essentials of the good life --
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๋„๋‹ฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ณผ์ •์„ ์ง€๋ฐฐํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋œ๋‹ค๋ฉด --
04:12
decent health care, access to the best education,
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์ถฉ๋ถ„ํ•œ ์˜๋ฃŒ ์„œ๋น„์Šค๋‚˜ ์–‘์งˆ์˜ ๊ต์œก์„ ๋ฐ›์„ ๊ธฐํšŒ,
04:16
political voice and influence in campaigns --
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์ •์น˜์  ๋ฐœ์–ธ๊ถŒ์ด๋‚˜ ์„ ๊ฑฐ์—์„œ์˜ ์˜ํ–ฅ๋ ฅ ๋“ฑ --
04:21
when money comes to govern all of those things,
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๋ˆ์ด ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ง€๋ฐฐํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋ฉด
04:25
inequality matters a great deal.
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๋ถˆํ‰๋“ฑ์€ ์‹ฌ๊ฐํ•œ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:27
And so the marketization of everything
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์„ ์‹œ์žฅํ™”ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
04:30
sharpens the sting of inequality
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๋ถˆํ‰๋“ฑ์˜ ๋ณ‘ํ์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜
04:33
and its social and civic consequence.
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์‹œ๋ฏผ ์‚ฌํšŒ์˜ ์œ„๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋”์šฑ ์‹ฌํ™”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:35
That's one reason to worry.
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ๊ฑฑ์ •ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ด์œ ์˜ˆ์š”.
04:38
There's a second reason
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๋‘๋ฒˆ์งธ ์ด์œ ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:41
apart from the worry about inequality,
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๋ถˆํ‰๋“ฑ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ฑฑ์ •์€ ์ œ์™ธํ•˜๊ณ ๋ผ๋„ ๋ง์ด์ฃ 
04:45
and it's this:
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ํ•œ ๋ฒˆ ๋ด…์‹œ๋‹ค:
04:47
with some social goods and practices,
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์‚ฌํšŒ์  ์žฌ์›์ด๋‚˜ ์‚ฌํšŒ์  ๊ด€์Šต์˜ ์˜์—ญ์—
04:51
when market thinking and market values enter,
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์‹œ์žฅ์  ์‚ฌ๊ณ ์™€ ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ„์„ญํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋ฉด
04:56
they may change the meaning of those practices
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๋ณธ๋ž˜์˜ ์˜๋ฏธ๊ฐ€ ๋ณ€์งˆ๋˜์–ด
04:59
and crowd out attitudes and norms
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์†Œ์ค‘ํžˆ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ์ž์„ธ๋‚˜ ๊ทœ๋ฒ”์„
05:02
worth caring about.
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๋ชฐ์•„๋‚ด ๋ฒ„๋ฆฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:04
I'd like to take an example
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์‹œ์žฅ ๋งค์ปค๋‹ˆ์ฆ˜์˜ ์ ์šฉ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๋…ผ๋ž€์„
05:07
of a controversial use of a market mechanism,
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์˜ˆ๋กœ ๋“ค์–ด ๋ณด๋ ค ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:11
a cash incentive, and see what you think about it.
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ํ˜„๊ธˆ ์œ ์ธ์ฑ…์ธ๋ฐ์š”. ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„๋“ค์€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š”์ง€ ๋ณด์‹ญ์‹œ๋‹ค.
05:15
Many schools struggle with the challenge
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์ผ์„ ์˜ ๋งŽ์€ ํ•™๊ต๋“ค์ด
05:19
of motivating kids, especially kids
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ํ•™์ƒ๋“ค์˜ ํ•™์Šต ๋™๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋†’์ด๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ์• ์“ฐ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:21
from disadvantaged backgrounds, to study hard,
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ํŠนํžˆ ์‚ฌํšŒ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋ถˆ๋ฆฌํ•œ ์—ฌ๊ฑด์„ ๊ฐ€์ง„ ์•„์ด๋“ค์€
05:25
to do well in school, to apply themselves.
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ํ•™์—…์— ์ „๋…ํ•˜๊ณ , ํ•™๊ต ์ƒํ™œ์— ์ ์‘ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ ์–ด๋ ค์›€์„ ๊ฒช๊ณ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:28
Some economists have proposed a market solution:
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์ผ๋ถ€ ๊ฒฝ์ œํ•™์ž๋“ค์€ ์‹œ์žฅ์  ํ•ด๋ฒ•์„ ์ œ์•ˆํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:32
Offer cash incentives to kids for getting good grades
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ํ˜„๊ธˆ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณด์ƒํ•ด์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:36
or high test scores
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์•„์ด๋“ค์ด ์„ฑ์ ์ด ์ข‹๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ์‹œํ—˜์„ ์ž˜ ๋ณด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
05:38
or for reading books.
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์ฑ…์„ ์ฝ์œผ๋ฉด ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
05:40
They've tried this, actually.
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์„ ์‹œ๋„ํ•ด ๋ณด์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:42
They've done some experiments
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ์˜ ๋ช‡๋ช‡ ์ฃผ์š” ๋„์‹œ์—์„œ
05:43
in some major American cities.
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์‹คํ—˜์„ ํ•œ ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
05:46
In New York, in Chicago, in Washington, D.C.,
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๋‰ด์š•, ์‹œ์นด๊ณ , ์›Œ์‹ฑํ„ด DC ์—์„œ
05:50
they've tried this, offering 50 dollars for an A,
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ฐฉ์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ–ˆ์–ด์š”. A๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›์œผ๋ฉด 50๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ
05:54
35 dollars for a B.
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B๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›์œผ๋ฉด 35๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ ์คฌ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:56
In Dallas, Texas, they have a program that offers
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ํ…์‚ฌ์Šค์˜ ๋Œˆ๋Ÿฌ์Šค์—์„œ๋Š” 8์‚ด์งœ๋ฆฌ ์•„์ด๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ
05:59
eight-year-olds two dollars for each book they read.
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์ฑ… ํ•œ ๊ถŒ ์ฝ์„ ๋•Œ ๋งˆ๋‹ค 2๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์”ฉ ์ฃผ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:04
So let's see what -- Some people are in favor,
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์ด์ œ, ๋ณผ๊นŒ์š” -- ์ผ๋ถ€๋Š” ์—ฌ๊ธฐ์— ์ฐฌ์„ฑํ–ˆ๊ณ 
06:07
some people are opposed to this cash incentive
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์ผ๋ถ€๋Š” ์„ฑ์ทจ ๋™๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋ถ€์—ฌํ•œ๋‹ค๋ฉด์„œ
06:10
to motivate achievement.
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๋ˆ์„ ์ฃผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์— ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:12
Let's see what people here think about it.
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ด์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š”์ง€ ๋ณผ๊นŒ์š”.
06:14
Imagine that you are the head of a major school system,
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ„์ด ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ํ•™๊ต ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์˜ ์ฑ…์ž„์ž๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ์ƒํ•ด ๋ณด์‹œ์ฃ .
06:19
and someone comes to you with this proposal.
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๋ˆ„๊ตฐ๊ฐ€ ๋‹ค๊ฐ€์™€์„œ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ œ์•ˆ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:22
And let's say it's a foundation. They will provide the funds.
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์–ด๋–ค ์žฌ๋‹จ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์นฉ์‹œ๋‹ค. ๊ทธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋ˆ์„ ์ง€์›ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:24
You don't have to take it out of your budget.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์˜ˆ์‚ฐ์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•  ํ•„์š”๊ฐ€ ์—†๋Š” ์ƒํ™ฉ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:26
How many would be in favor
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๋ช‡ ๋ถ„์ด๋‚˜ ์ฐฌ์„ฑํ•˜์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
06:28
and how many would be opposed to giving it a try?
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์‹œ๋„๋ฅผ ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ ๋ช‡ ๋ถ„์ด๋‚˜ ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
06:31
Let's see by a show of hands.
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์†์„ ๋“ค์–ด ๋ณผ๊นŒ์š”.
06:33
First, how many think it might at least be worth a try
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์šฐ์„ , ์ตœ์†Œํ•œ ์‹œ๋„ํ•ด ๋ณผ ๊ฐ€์น˜๋Š” ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋ถ„.
06:36
to see if it would work? Raise your hand.
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๋ช‡ ๋ถ„์ด๋‚˜ ๊ณ„์‹œ์ฃ ? ์† ๋“ค์–ด ๋ณด์„ธ์š”.
06:40
And how many would be opposed? How many would --
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๊ทธ๋Ÿผ ๋ช‡ ๋ถ„์ด ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ? ๋ช‡ ๋ถ„์ด๋‚˜
06:43
So the majority here are opposed,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์€ ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š”๊ตฐ์š”.
06:46
but a sizable minority are in favor.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ผ๋ถ€๋Š” ์ฐฌ์„ฑํ•˜์‹œ๋„ค์š”.
06:49
Let's have a discussion.
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๋…ผ์˜๋ฅผ ํ•ด๋ด…์‹œ๋‹ค.
06:50
Let's start with those of you who object,
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๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ๋ถ„๋“ค ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•ด ๋ณผ๊นŒ์š”?
06:53
who would rule it out even before trying.
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์•„์ง ์‹œ๋„๋„ ํ•ด๋ณด๊ธฐ ์ „์— ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ๋ถ„, ๊ณ„์‹ ๊ฐ€์š”?
06:56
What would be your reason?
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๊ทธ ์ด์œ ๊ฐ€ ๋ญ์ฃ ?
06:58
Who will get our discussion started? Yes?
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๋ˆ„๊ฐ€ ๋จผ์ € ๋ง๋ฌธ์„ ์—ด์–ด์ฃผ์‹œ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ
07:02
Heike Moses: Hello everyone, I'm Heike,
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ํ•˜์ด์นด ๋ชจ์„ธ: ์•ˆ๋…•ํ•˜์„ธ์š”. ํ•˜์ด์นด๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:04
and I think it just kills the intrinsic motivation,
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ๋‚ด์žฌ์ ์ธ ๋™๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์—†์•จ ๊ฑฐ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:06
so in the respect that children, if they would like to read,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์˜๋ฏธ์—์„œ ์•„์ด๋“ค์€ ์ฑ…์„ ์ฝ๊ณ  ์‹ถ๋”๋ผ๋„
07:12
you just take this incentive away
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์˜คํžˆ๋ ค ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋™๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋นผ์•—๊ธฐ๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:14
in just paying them, so it just changes behavior.
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๊ทธ์ € ๋ˆ์„ ๋ฐ›๊ณ  ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ–‰๋™์„ ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ ๋ฟ์ด์ง€์š”
07:17
Michael Sandel: Takes the intrinsic incentive away.
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๋งˆ์ดํด ์ƒŒ๋ธ: ๋‚ด์žฌ์ ์ธ ๋™๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ์‚ฌ๋ผ์ง„๋‹ค.
07:21
What is, or should be, the intrinsic motivation?
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๋‚ด์žฌ์  ๋™๊ธฐ๋Š” ๋ฌด์—‡์ด๋ฉฐ ์–ด๋•Œ์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ ?
07:25
HM: Well, the intrinsic motivation
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ํ•˜์ด์นด ๋ชจ์„ธ: ๋‚ด์žฌ์  ๋™๊ธฐ๋ผ ํ•˜๋ฉด
07:26
should be to learn.
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๋ฐฐ์šฐ๊ณ ์ž ํ•จ์ด์ฃ .
07:28
MS: To learn. HM: To get to know the world.
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ํ•˜์ด์นด ๋ชจ์„ธ: ๋ฐฐ์›€์ด์š”. ๋งˆ์ดํด ์ƒŒ๋ธ: ์„ธ์ƒ์„ ์•Œ์•„๊ฐ€๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์š”.
07:31
And then, if you stop paying them, what happens then?
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด ๋ˆ์„ ์•ˆ ์ค€๋‹ค๊ณ  ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋˜๊ธฐ๋ผ๋„ ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
07:34
Then they stop reading?
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๊ทธ๋Ÿผ ์•„์ด๋“ค์ด ์ฑ…์ฝ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ฉˆ์ถ”๊ธฐ๋ผ๋„ ํ•˜๋‚˜์š”?
07:36
MS: Now, let's see if there's someone who favors,
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๋งˆ์ดํด ์ƒŒ๋ธ: ์ด์ œ ์ฐฌ์„ฑํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ๋ถ„๋“ค ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์–ด๋ด…์‹œ๋‹ค.
07:39
who thinks it's worth trying this.
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์ด๊ฑธ ์‹œ๋„ํ•ด ๋ณผ ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ๋ถ„?
07:41
Elizabeth Loftus: I'm Elizabeth Loftus,
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์—˜๋ฆฌ์ž๋ฒ ์Šค ๋กœํ”„ํ„ฐ์Šค: ์—˜๋ฆฌ์ž๋ฒ ์Šค ๋กœํ”„ํ„ฐ์Šค์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:43
and you said worth a try, so why not try it
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์‹œ๋„ํ•ด๋ณผ ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด์„œ์š”. ๊ทธ๋Ÿผ ํ•ด๋ณด๋ฉด ๋˜๋Š”๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
07:47
and do the experiment and measure things?
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์‹คํ—˜์„ ํ•ด๋ณด๊ณ  ์ƒํ™ฉ์„ ํ‰๊ฐ€ํ•ด๋ณด๋ฉด ์–ด๋–จ๊นŒ์š”?
07:51
MS: And measure. And what would you measure?
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๋งˆ์ดํด ์ƒŒ๋ธ: ํ‰๊ฐ€๋ผ.. .๋ญ˜ ํ‰๊ฐ€ํ•˜์ฃ ?
07:54
You'd measure how many --
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๋ฌด์—‡์ด ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ๋˜๋Š”์ง€ --
07:55
EL: How many books they read
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์—˜๋ฆฌ์ž๋ฒ ์Šค ๋กœํ”„ํ„ฐ์Šค: ์ฑ…์„ ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ์ฝ์—ˆ๋Š”์ง€
07:57
and how many books they continued to read
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๋˜ ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ๊ณ„์† ์ฝ๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€
08:00
after you stopped paying them.
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์žฅ๋ ค๊ธˆ ์ง€์›์„ ์ค‘๋‹จํ•œ ํ›„์—์š”.
08:02
MS: Oh, after you stopped paying.
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๋งˆ์ดํด ์ƒŒ๋ธ: ์•„, ์žฅ๋ ค๊ธˆ์„ ์ค‘๋‹จํ•œ ๋‹ค์Œ์—์š”.
08:04
All right, what about that?
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์ข‹์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ด๊ฑด ์–ด๋–ป์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
08:05
HM: To be frank, I just think
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ํ•˜์ด์นด ๋ชจ์„ธ: ์†”์งํžˆ, ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ธฐ์—
08:07
this is, not to offend anyone, a very American way.
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ถ„๋“ค์„ ๋น„๋‚œํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑด ์•„๋‹Œ๋ฐ ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์‹์ด๋„ค์š”.
08:12
(Laughter) (Applause)
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(์›ƒ์Œ) (๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
08:18
MS: All right. What's emerged from this discussion
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๋งˆ์ดํด ์ƒŒ๋ธ: ์ข‹์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ด ๋…ผ์˜์—์„œ ๋‚˜์˜จ ๊ฑด
08:21
is the following question:
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๋‹ค์Œ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์€ ์˜๋ฌธ์ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค:
08:23
Will the cash incentive drive out or corrupt
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์žฅ๋ ค๊ธˆ์ด ๊ณผ์—ฐ ์–‘์งˆ์˜ ๋™๊ธฐ๋ฅผ
08:27
or crowd out the higher motivation,
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๋ง์ณ๋ฒ„๋ฆฌ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋‚ด์ณ๋ฒ„๋ฆฌ๋Š”๊ฐ€?
08:30
the intrinsic lesson that we hope to convey,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋‚ด์‹ฌ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋Š” ํšจ๊ณผ๋Š”
08:35
which is to learn to love to learn and to read
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์•„์ด๋“ค ์Šค์Šค๋กœ ๋ฐฐ์šฐ๊ณ  ์ฝ๋Š” ๊ฑธ ์ข‹์•„ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฒ•์„
08:39
for their own sakes?
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๊นจ๋‹ซ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ž–์•„์š”?
08:41
And people disagree about what the effect will be,
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๋ชจ๋‘ ๊ทธ ํšจ๊ณผ๊ฐ€ ์–ด๋–จ์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ ๋™์˜ํ•˜์ง„ ์•Š์•˜์ง€๋งŒ
08:45
but that seems to be the question,
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์˜๋ฌธ์ ์ธ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™๊ตฐ์š”.
08:48
that somehow a market mechanism
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์–ด๋–ป๋“  ์‹œ์žฅ ๋งค์ปค๋‹ˆ์ฆ˜์ด๋‚˜
08:50
or a cash incentive teaches the wrong lesson,
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์žฅ๋ ค๊ธˆ ์ง€๊ธ‰์ด ์ž˜๋ชป๋œ ๊ตํ›ˆ์„ ์ค„ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋‹ค.
08:55
and if it does, what will become of these children later?
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๋ฉด, ๋‚˜์ค‘์— ์•„์ด๋“ค์€ ์–ด๋–ค ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ฐ›๊ฒŒ ๋ ๊นŒ์š”?
08:58
I should tell you what's happened with these experiments.
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์ด ์‹คํ—˜์—์„œ ์–ด๋–ค ์ผ์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚ฌ๋Š”์ง€ ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ ค์•ผ๊ฒ ๊ตฐ์š”.
09:02
The cash for good grades has had very mixed results,
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์„ฑ์ ๋ณ„ ์žฅ๋ ค๊ธˆ ์ œ๋„๋Š” ์ƒ๋‹นํžˆ ํ˜ผ์žฌ๋œ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋ฅผ ๋ณด์˜€์ง€๋งŒ
09:06
for the most part has not resulted in higher grades.
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๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์€ ์ข‹์€ ์„ฑ์ ์„ ๋‚ด์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:09
The two dollars for each book
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์ฑ… ํ•œ ๊ถŒ์— 2๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ ์ค€ ๊ฒƒ์€
09:12
did lead those kids to read more books.
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์•„์ด๋“ค์ด ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ์ฑ…์„ ์ฝ๋„๋ก ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:15
It also led them to read shorter books.
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๊ฒŒ๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ๋” ์–‡์€ ์ฑ…์„ ์ฝ๋„๋ก ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ์ฃ .
09:18
(Laughter)
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(์›ƒ์Œ)
09:22
But the real question is,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ์ง„์งœ ์˜๋ฌธ์€
09:23
what will become of these kids later?
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์•„์ด๋“ค์ด ๋‚˜์ค‘์— ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์„๊นŒ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:26
Will they have learned that reading is a chore,
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์šฐ๋ คํ–ˆ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์•„์ด๋“ค์ด ์ฑ…์ฝ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ
09:28
a form of piecework to be done for pay, that's the worry,
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๋ˆ ๋ฐ›๊ณ ์„œ ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ ์ •๋„๋กœ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์„๊นŒ์š”
09:31
or may it lead them to read maybe for the wrong reason initially
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์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉด ์ฒ˜์Œ์—๋Š” ์ž˜๋ชป๋œ ์˜๋„๋กœ ์ฝ๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ์ง€๋งŒ
09:36
but then lead them to fall in love with reading for its own sake?
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์ž์—ฐํžˆ ์ฑ…์ฝ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์ข‹์•„ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜์—ˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
09:41
Now, what this, even this brief debate, brings out
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์ž, ์ด ์งง์€ ๋…ผ์˜์—์„œ ๋‚˜์˜จ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋Š”
09:45
is something that many economists overlook.
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๊ทธ ๋งŽ์€ ๊ฒฝ์ œํ•™์ž๋“ค๋„ ๊ฐ„๊ณผํ–ˆ๋˜ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:49
Economists often assume
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๊ฒฝ์ œํ•™์ž๋“ค์€ ์ข…์ข…
09:51
that markets are inert,
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์‹œ์žฅ์€ ๊ทธ๋Œ€๋กœ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๋ผ์„œ
09:54
that they do not touch or taint the goods they exchange.
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๊ตํ™˜ํ•˜๋Š” ์žฌํ™”์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ฏธ์น˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š”๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ด…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:58
Market exchange, they assume,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์‹œ์žฅ์  ๊ตํ™˜์ด
10:01
doesn't change the meaning or value
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๊ตํ™˜๋˜๋Š” ์ƒํ’ˆ์˜ ์˜๋ฏธ๋‚˜ ๊ฐ€์น˜๋ฅผ
10:04
of the goods being exchanged.
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๋ฐ”๊พธ์ง€ ๋ชปํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๊ฐ€์ •ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:05
This may be true enough
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๋งž๋Š” ๋ง์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:07
if we're talking about material goods.
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์œ ํ˜•์˜ ์žฌํ™”๋ผ๋ฉด ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
10:09
If you sell me a flat screen television
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์ œ๊ฒŒ ํ‰๋ฉด ํ…”๋ ˆ๋น„์ „๋ฅผ ํŒ”๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
10:12
or give me one as a gift,
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์„ ๋ฌผ๋กœ ์ฃผ๋“  ๊ฐ„์—
10:14
it will be the same good.
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๋ฌผ๊ฑด ์ž์ฒด๋Š” ๋˜‘๊ฐ™๊ฒ ์ง€์š”.
10:15
It will work the same either way.
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์–ด๋–ค ๋ฐฉํ–ฅ์œผ๋กœ๋“  ๊ฐ™์„ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค
10:18
But the same may not be true
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ฌดํ˜•์˜ ์žฌํ™”๋ผ๋ฉด
10:20
if we're talking about nonmaterial goods
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๋ง์ด ์ข€ ๋‹ค๋ฅผ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:23
and social practices such as teaching and learning
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๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๊ณ  ๋ฐฐ์šฐ๋Š” ์‚ฌํšŒ์ ์ธ ํ–‰์œ„๋‚˜
10:27
or engaging together in civic life.
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์‚ฌํšŒ์  ํ–‰์œ„์™€ ๊ฒฐ๋ถ€๋˜๋Š” ์˜์—ญ์„ ํฌํ•จํ•ด์„œ์š”.
10:30
In those domains, bringing market mechanisms
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์˜์—ญ์— ์‹œ์žฅ ๋งค์ปค๋‹ˆ์ฆ˜๊ณผ
10:34
and cash incentives may undermine
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ํ˜„๊ธˆ ์žฅ๋ ค๊ธˆ์„ ๋„์ž…ํ•˜๋Š” ํ–‰์œ„๋Š”
10:38
or crowd out nonmarket values and attitudes
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์†Œ์ค‘ํ•œ ๋น„์ƒ์—…์  ๊ฐ€์น˜ ๋˜๋Š” ๋งˆ์Œ๊ฐ€์ง์„
10:42
worth caring about.
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ํ•ด์น˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋ชฐ์•„๋‚ผ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:44
Once we see
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์ผ๋‹จ
10:47
that markets and commerce,
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์‹œ์žฅ์ด๋‚˜ ์ƒํ’ˆ์ด ์œ ํ˜• ์žฌํ™”์˜ ์˜์—ญ์„ ๋ฒ—์–ด๋‚˜
10:50
when extended beyond the material domain,
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๊ทธ ๋„ˆ๋จธ๋กœ ํ™•์žฅ๋˜๋ฉด
10:54
can change the character of the goods themselves,
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์ƒํ’ˆ์˜ ํŠน์„ฑ ์ž์ฒด๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ์ .
10:59
can change the meaning of the social practices,
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์‚ฌํšŒ์ ์ธ ํ–‰์œ„์˜ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ์ ์„
11:02
as in the example of teaching and learning,
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๊ต์œก๊ณผ ํ•™์Šต์˜ ์˜ˆ์—์„œ ์‚ดํŽด ๋ณด์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:05
we have to ask where markets belong
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์‹œ์žฅ์˜ ์˜์—ญ์ด ๊ณผ์—ฐ ์–ด๋””๊นŒ์ง€์—ฌ์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š”์ง€
11:10
and where they don't,
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์งˆ๋ฌธ์„ ๋˜์ ธ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค
11:12
where they may actually undermine
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์†Œ์ค‘ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์น˜์™€ ์ž์„ธ๋ฅผ ์ž ์‹ํ•˜๋Š” ์˜์—ญ์€
11:14
values and attitudes worth caring about.
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์–ด๋””๊นŒ์ง€์ธ์ง€๋„ ์•Œ์•„์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:17
But to have this debate,
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๋‹ค๋งŒ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋…ผ์˜๋ฅผ ์œ„ํ•ด์„ 
11:21
we have to do something we're not very good at,
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์‰ฝ์ง€ ์•Š์€ ๊ณผ์ •์„ ๊ฑฐ์ณ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:24
and that is to reason together in public
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์†Œ์ค‘ํžˆ ์—ฌ๊ธธ ์‚ฌํšŒ์  ํ–‰์œ„์˜
11:28
about the value and the meaning
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๊ฐ€์น˜์™€ ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ
11:31
of the social practices we prize,
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๊ณต๋ก ์˜ ์žฅ์—์„œ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ๋”ฐ์ ธ๋ณด์•„์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:35
from our bodies to family life
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๋ชธ์—์„œ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๊ฐ€์กฑ ์ƒํ™œ,
11:37
to personal relations to health
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์‚ฌ์ ์ธ ๊ด€๊ณ„, ๊ฑด๊ฐ•,
11:39
to teaching and learning to civic life.
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๊ต์œก๊ณผ ๊ณต๊ณต ์ƒํ™œ์˜ ์˜์—ญ ๊นŒ์ง€๋„์š”.
11:43
Now these are controversial questions,
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๋ชจ๋‘ ๋…ผ์Ÿ์˜ ์—ฌ์ง€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š” ์งˆ๋ฌธ๋“ค์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:46
and so we tend to shrink from them.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ์„œ๋Š” ๊ฒฝํ–ฅ์ด ์žˆ์ฃ .
11:49
In fact, during the past three decades,
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์‚ฌ์‹ค ์ง€๋‚œ 30์—ฌ๋…„๊ฐ„
11:52
when market reasoning and market thinking
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์‹œ์žฅ ๋…ผ๋ฆฌ, ์‹œ์žฅ์  ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๊ฐ€
11:54
have gathered force and gained prestige,
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ํž˜๊ณผ ํŠน๊ถŒ์„ ์–ป์—ˆ์„ ๋•Œ
11:58
our public discourse during this time
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์ด ์‹œ๊ธฐ๋™์•ˆ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋Œ€์ค‘์  ๋‹ด๋ก ์€
12:01
has become hollowed out,
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ํ—ˆ์šธ๋งŒ ๊ณตํ—ˆํžˆ ๋‚จ๊ณ 
12:03
empty of larger moral meaning.
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๋ณด๋‹ค ํฐ ๋„์ ์  ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ์žƒ์–ด๋ฒ„๋ ธ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:07
For fear of disagreement, we shrink from these questions.
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์˜๊ฒฌ ์ถฉ๋Œ์ด ๋‘๋ ค์›Œ์„œ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ์„ฐ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
12:10
But once we see that markets
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ผ๋‹จ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์‹œ์žฅ์ด ์ƒํ’ˆ์˜ ์„ฑ๊ฒฉ์„
12:14
change the character of goods,
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๋ฐ”๊พธ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ณธ ์ด์ƒ
12:16
we have to debate among ourselves
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์žฌํ™”์˜ ๊ฐ€์น˜๋ฅผ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋งค๊ธธ ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด
12:21
these bigger questions
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋” ํฐ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ 
12:23
about how to value goods.
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๋…ผ์˜ํ•ด์•ผ๋งŒ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:25
One of the most corrosive effects
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๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์— ๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์„ ๋งค๊ธฐ๋Š” ์ผ์ด
12:28
of putting a price on everything
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๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ข€๋จน๋Š” ๊ฑด
12:31
is on commonality,
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๊ณต๊ณต์„ฑ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:33
the sense that we are all in it together.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ์˜์‹ ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:36
Against the background of rising inequality,
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๋ถˆํ‰๋“ฑ์ด ์ ์  ์ปค์ง€๋Š” ํ˜„์‹ค์— ๋ฐ˜ํ•˜์—ฌ
12:41
marketizing every aspect of life
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์‚ถ์˜ ๋ชจ๋“  ์ธก๋ฉด์„ ์‹œ์žฅํ™”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋ฉด
12:45
leads to a condition where those who are affluent
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๋ถ€์œ ํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๊ณผ
12:50
and those who are of modest means
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๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€ ์•Š์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€
12:52
increasingly live separate lives.
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์ ์  ๋ถ„๋ฆฌ๋œ ์‚ถ์„ ์‚ด๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:57
We live and work and shop and play
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์„œ๋กœ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ณณ์—์„œ
13:00
in different places.
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์‚ด๊ณ , ์ผํ•˜๊ณ , ์‡ผํ•‘ํ•˜๊ณ  ์ฆ๊ธฐ๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:02
Our children go to different schools.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์•„์ด๋“ค๋„ ์„œ๋กœ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํ•™๊ต์— ๊ฐ€๊ฒŒ ๋˜๊ณ ์š”.
13:05
This isn't good for democracy,
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์ด๊ฒƒ์€ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜์— ์ข‹์ง€๋„ ์•Š๊ณ 
13:07
nor is it a satisfying way to live,
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๊ทธ๋‹ค์ง€ ๋งŒ์กฑ์Šค๋Ÿฐ ์‚ถ๋„ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:10
even for those of us who can afford
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์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด ์ค„ ์•ž์œผ๋กœ ๋ผ์–ด๋“œ๋Š” ๋น„์šฉ์„
13:13
to buy our way to the head of the line.
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๋ถ€๋‹ดํ•  ๋งŒํผ ๋ถ€์œ ํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ์—๊ฒŒ๋„ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:16
Here's why.
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์™œ ๊ทธ๋Ÿด๊นŒ์š”.
13:18
Democracy does not require perfect equality,
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๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๋Š” ์™„๋ฒฝํ•œ ํ‰๋“ฑ์„ ์š”๊ตฌํ•˜์ง€๋Š” ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค๋งŒ
13:23
but what it does require
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๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜๊ฐ€ ์š”๊ตฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
13:25
is that citizens share in a common life.
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์‹œ๋ฏผ๋“ค์ด ๋ณดํŽธ์ ์ธ ์‚ถ์„ ๊ณต์œ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:28
What matters is that people
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์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€
13:31
of different social backgrounds
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์„œ๋กœ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌํšŒ์  ๋ฐฐ๊ฒฝ๊ณผ
13:33
and different walks of life
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์‚ถ์˜ ์ด๋ ฅ์„ ์ง€๋‹Œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด
13:34
encounter one another,
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์„œ๋กœ ๋งˆ์ฃผ์น˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:37
bump up against one another
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์ผ์ƒ์—์„œ ์„œ๋กœ์„œ๋กœ
13:39
in the ordinary course of life,
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๋ถ€๋Œ€๋‚„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์•ผํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
13:42
because this is what teaches us
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ด ๋•Œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š”
13:45
to negotiate and to abide our differences.
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์„œ๋กœ์˜ ์ฐจ์ด์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ํƒ€ํ˜‘ํ•˜๊ณ  ์ˆ˜์šฉํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋˜๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
13:49
And this is how we come to care for the common good.
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๋˜ํ•œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ณต๊ณต ์žฌํ™”์— ๊ด€์‹ฌ์„ ๊ฐ–๊ฒŒ๋˜๋Š” ๊ธธ์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜์ฃ .
13:53
And so, in the end, the question of markets
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๊ฒฐ๊ตญ, ์‹œ์žฅํ™”์˜ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์€
13:56
is not mainly an economic question.
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๊ฒฝ์ œํ•™์ ์ธ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ผ๊ธฐ ๋ณด๋‹ค๋Š”
14:00
It's really a question of how we want to live together.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์‚ด์•„๊ฐˆ์ง€์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋ฌผ์Œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:04
Do we want a society where everything is up for sale,
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๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฑธ ์‚ฌ๊ณ  ํŒŒ๋Š” ์‚ฌํšŒ๋ฅผ ์›ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
14:09
or are there certain moral and civic goods
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์•„๋‹ˆ๋ฉด ํŠน์ • ๋„๋•์ด๋‚˜ ๊ณต๊ณต์žฌํ™”๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์–ด์„œ
14:12
that markets do not honor
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์‹œ์žฅ์— ์ขŒ์šฐ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ 
14:14
and money cannot buy?
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๋ˆ์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ์‚ด ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ์‚ฌํšŒ๋ฅผ ์›ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
14:17
Thank you very much.
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๋Œ€๋‹จํžˆ ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:19
(Applause)
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(๋ฐ•์ˆ˜)
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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