The mind behind Linux | Linus Torvalds | TED

譯者: Regina Chu 審譯者: Marssi Draw

Chris Anderson: This is such a strange thing.

克里斯·安德森： 這真是件怪事。

你的 Linux 軟體 裝在數百萬台電腦內，

Your software, Linux, is in millions of computers,

it probably powers much of the Internet.

大部分的網路都靠它驅動。

And I think that there are, like,

我想現在大概有

a billion and a half active Android devices out there.

十五億支 Android 裝置在用。

Your software is in every single one of them.

你的軟體也裝在每一支裡面。

It's kind of amazing.

這真了不起。

You must have some amazing software headquarters driving all this.

你一定有很了不起的 軟體總部操縱這些。

That's what I thought -- and I was shocked when I saw a picture of it.

我原本是這麼想的， 所以我看到這張照片時相當驚訝。

I mean, this is --

我是說，這個──

this is the Linux world headquarters.

這個就是 Linux 全球總部。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

Linus Torvalds: It really doesn't look like much.

林納斯·托瓦茲： 這看起來真的沒什麼了不起。

And I have to say,

我得說，

the most interesting part in this picture,

這張照片最有意思的部分，

that people mostly react to,

大家最有反應的地方，

is the walking desk.

就是這臺跑步機辦公桌。

It is the most interesting part in my office

我的辦公室裡就這個最好玩，

and I'm not actually using it anymore.

我現在其實不用它了。

And I think the two things are related.

我想這兩件事其實相關。

The way I work is ...

我的工作方式是──

I want to not have external stimulation.

我不想要有外界刺激。

You can kind of see, on the walls are this light green.

你們大概看得出來， 牆面漆著淡綠色。

I'm told that at mental institutions they use that on the walls.

人家告訴我精神病院的牆壁 都漆這種顏色。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It's like a calming color,

這是讓人平靜的顏色，

it's not something that really stimulates you.

這不是會刺激你的東西。

What you can't see is the computer here, you only see the screen,

你看不到的是那裡有臺電腦， 你只能看到螢幕，

but the main thing I worry about in my computer is --

但是我最擔心電腦的部分是──

it doesn't have to be big and powerful, although I like that --

它不用很大很強， 雖然這部分我也喜歡──

it really has to be completely silent.

但它真的必須完全靜音。

I know people who work for Google

我認識一些 在 Google 工作的人，

and they have their own small data center at home,

他們在家裡 有自己的小型資料中心，

and I don't do that.

但是我沒有。

My office is the most boring office you'll ever see.

我的辦公室是你見過 最乏味的辦公室。

And I sit there alone in the quiet.

我自己一個人 坐在很安靜的環境裡。

If the cat comes up,

如果我的貓跑來了，

it sits in my lap.

牠會坐在我的腿上。

And I want to hear the cat purring,

我要聽貓咕嚕咕嚕的聲音，

not the sound of the fans in the computer.

不要聽電腦風扇的聲音。

CA: So this is astonishing,

克：所以這真令人驚訝，

because working this way,

因為你這種工作方式，

you're able to run this vast technology empire --

還能管理這麼大的科技帝國──

it is an empire --

這的確是個帝國──

so that's an amazing testament to the power of open source.

所以這就是開放原始碼 力量有多大的驚人證據。

Tell us how you got to understand open source

跟我們聊聊你怎麼開始 了解開放原始碼，

and how it lead to the development of Linux.

及這如何帶領你開發 Linux。

LT: I mean, I still work alone.

林：我是說，我仍然是獨行俠。

Really -- I work alone in my house,

真的，我自己一個人在家裡工作，

often in my bathrobe.

通常是穿著浴袍。

When a photographer shows up, I dress up,

有攝影師來了， 我就穿整齊一點，

so I have clothes on.

所以我有穿衣服。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And that's how I've always worked.

我總是這樣工作。

I mean, this was how I started Linux, too.

我是說， 我也是這樣開始 Linux。

I did not start Linux as a collaborative project.

我開始 Linux 時， 沒有把它當成協同計劃。

I started it as one in a series of many projects

我開始是把它當成 一系列計劃中的一個，

I had done at the time for myself,

我當時是為自己做的，

partly because I needed the end result,

部分原因是我需要最終結果，

but even more because I just enjoyed programming.

但是更重要的是 我就是喜歡寫程式。

So it was about the end of the journey,

所以重點是旅程的終點，

which, 25 years later, we still have not reached.

然而 25 年後， 我們還沒有達到目的地。

But it was really about the fact that I was looking for a project on my own

但事實真的是 我在為自己找個計劃，

and there was no open source, really, on my radar at all.

說真的開放原始碼 根本不在我的考慮範圍之內。

And what happened is ...

當時的情況是──

the project grows and becomes something you want to show off to people.

計劃有進展， 變成你很想跟人炫耀的東西。

Really, this is more of a, "Wow, look at what I did!"

說真的，這更像是： 「哇，你看我做了什麼！」

And trust me -- it was not that great back then.

相信我，那時候沒有現在這麼好。

I made it publicly available,

我把它公開共享，

and it wasn't even open source at that point.

那時候根本還不是開放原始碼。

At that point it was source that was open, but there was no intention

那個時候原始碼是開放的， 但是背後根本沒有意圖

behind using the kind of open-source methodology that we think of today

要用我們今天認為的 開放原始碼方法論來改進。

to improve it.

It was more like,

這更像是：

"Look, I've been working on this for half a year,

「你看，我花了大半年做這個，

I'd love to have comments."

我想聽聽意見。」

And other people approached me.

然後有些人來接觸我。

At the University of Helsinki,

在赫爾辛基大學，

I had a friend who was one of the open source --

我有個朋友在做開放原始碼──

it was called mainly "free software" back then --

那時候大家還叫「自由軟體」──

and he actually introduced me to the notion that, hey,

實際上是他向我介紹這個概念，嘿，

you can use these open-source licenses that had been around.

你可以用現有的 開放原始碼授權條款。

And I thought about it for a while.

我考慮了一陣子。

I was actually worried about the whole commercial interests coming in.

我擔心的其實是 隨之而來的商業利益。

I mean, that's one of the worries I think most people who start out have,

我是說，我想大多數 創業的人都會擔心這一點，

is that they worry about somebody taking advantage of their work, right?

就是他們擔心 有人會占他們便宜，對吧？

And I decided, "What the hell?"

後來我決定「管他去死！」

And --

所以──

CA: And then at some point,

克：之後有一天，

someone contributed some code that you thought,

有人貢獻了一些程式， 而你這麼想：

"Wow, that really is interesting, I would not have thought of that.

「哇，這真的很有意思， 我從沒想過這點。

This could actually improve this."

這應該可以改進這個。」

LT: It didn't even start by people contributing code,

林：這甚至不是 從有人貢獻程式開始，

it was more that people started contributing ideas.

比較像是大家開始貢獻想法。

And just the fact that somebody else takes a look at your project --

光是這個事實， 就是別人看了你的計劃──

and I'm sure it's true of other things, too,

我確信別的事也一樣，

but it's definitely true in code --

但這在寫程式 這件事上絕對是這樣──

is that somebody else takes an interest in your code,

就是有人對你的程式有興趣，

looks at it enough to actually give you feedback

還仔細研究到能真的給你意見，

and give you ideas.

給你想法。

That was a huge thing for me.

這對我是件大事。

I was 21 at the time, so I was young,

那時我 21 歲，是很年輕，

but I had already programmed for half my life, basically.

但我基本上 已經寫了半輩子的程式。

And every project before that had been completely personal

在那之前每一件計劃 都是我個人的東西，

and it was a revelation when people just started commenting,

所以當大家開始評論，

started giving feedback on your code.

開始對你的程式給意見時， 真的是一種啟示。

And even before they started giving code back,

甚至在他們開始回饋程式前，

that was, I think, one of the big moments where I said,

我想那是重要的一刻， 因為我說：

"I love other people!"

「我愛別人！」

Don't get me wrong --

不要誤會，

I'm actually not a people person.

我不是一個喜歡社交的人。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

I don't really love other people --

我不是真的愛別人──

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But I love computers,

但是我愛電腦，

I love interacting with other people on email,

我愛與別人用電郵互動，

because it kind of gives you that buffer.

因為這好像給了你緩衝的空間。

But I do love other people who comment and get involved in my project.

但是我的確喜愛 會評論並參與計劃的人。

And it made it so much more.

這使計劃豐富許多。

CA: So was there a moment when you saw what was being built

克：有沒有哪個時刻， 你看到現有的專案

and it suddenly started taking off,

突然大受歡迎，

and you thought, "Wait a sec, this actually could be something huge,

然後你想：「等一下， 這應該會變成更大的東西，

not just a personal project that I'm getting nice feedback on,

不再只是個人的計劃， 可以得到一些很好的建議，

but a kind of explosive development in the whole technology world"?

而是有點像整個科技界的 爆炸性進展？」

LT: Not really.

林：其實沒有。

I mean, the big point for me, really, was not when it was becoming huge,

我說真的，對我而言重點 不是它變大的時候，

it was when it was becoming little.

而是它變小的時候。

The big point for me was not being alone

對我而言重點是 不再單打獨鬥，

and having 10, maybe 100 people being involved --

而是有十人， 或許一百人參與，

that was a big point.

這是重點。

Then everything else was very gradual.

然後其它的事都慢慢發生。

Going from 100 people to a million people is not a big deal -- to me.

從一百人到一百萬人 沒什麼了不起，對我而言。

Well, I mean, maybe it is if you're --

我是說，可能很了不起， 如果你──

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

If you want to sell your result then it's a huge deal --

如果你想賣你的結果 那當然很了不起──

don't get me wrong.

不要誤會。

But if you're interested in the technology

但是如果你是對科技有興趣，

and you're interested in the project,

你對這計劃本身有興趣，

the big part was getting the community.

那重點是建立一個社群。

Then the community grew gradually.

然後這個社群慢慢成長。

And there's actually not a single point where I went like,

其實並沒有什麼 特別的時刻讓我覺得

"Wow, that just took off!" because it --

「哇，起飛了！」 因為它──

I mean -- it took a long time, relatively.

我是說──這真的 花了相對而言很長的時間。

CA: So all the technologists that I talk to really credit you

克：跟我聊過的科技人都歸功你，

with massively changing their work.

說你完全改變了他們的工作。

And it's not just Linux,

而且不只是 Linux，

it's this thing called Git,

還有這個叫做 Git 的，

which is this management system for software development.

這是一套軟體開發的 （版本）管理系統。

Tell us briefly about that and your role in that.

跟我們簡單說明一下 你在其中的角色。

LT: So one of the issues we had,

林：那時我們有一個問題，

and this took a while to start to appear,

在做了一陣子之後才出現，

is when you ...

就是當你──

When you grow from having 10 people or 100 people working on a project

當你的計劃從十人或百人

to having 10,000 people, which --

成長到一萬人，這個──

I mean, right now we're in the situation where just on the kernel,

就是說現在我們的情況是 僅僅在核心部分，

we have 1,000 people involved in every single release

每次釋出新版本都有上千人參與，

and that's every two months, roughly two or three months.

而且每兩個月， 大約兩到三個月就釋出一次。

Some of those people don't do a lot.

有些人做得不多。

There's a lot of people who make small, small changes.

有很多人只做一點點修改。

But to maintain this,

但是要維護這個，

the scale changes how you have to maintain it.

這樣的規模 會改變你維護的方法。

And we went through a lot of pain.

我們經歷了很多痛苦。

And there are whole projects that do only source-code maintenance.

有很多計劃只能做原始碼維護。

CVS is the one that used to be the most commonly used,

CVS （協作版本系統） 過去是最常用的系統，

and I hated CVS with a passion and refused to touch it

我恨死了 CVS， 堅決不肯使用它，

and tried something else that was radical and interesting

我也試了其它激進有趣的東西，

and everybody else hated.

但是其他人卻恨死了。

CA: (Laughs)

克：（笑聲）

LT: And we were in this bad spot,

林：我們處在很糟的情況，

where we had thousands of people who wanted to participate,

我們有數千人想要參與，

but in many ways, I was the kind of break point,

但是從很多方面看， 我都是那個中斷點，

where I could not scale to the point

我無法放大自己的格局

where I could work with thousands of people.

到能與數千人一同工作。

So Git is my second big project,

所以 Git 是 我的第二個大型計畫，

which was only created for me to maintain my first big project.

是專門為我打造， 以維護我的第一個大型計畫，

And this is literally how I work.

這真的就是我工作的方式。

I don't code for --

我寫程式不是為了──

well, I do code for fun --

嗯，我的確會為了好玩寫程式──

but I want to code for something meaningful

但是我想寫有意義的程式，

so every single project I've ever done has been something I needed

所以我完成的每一項計畫 都是我需要的東西，

and --

而且──

CA: So really, both Linux and Git kind of arose

克：所以真的， Linux 和 Git 兩者的出現

almost as an unintended consequence

幾乎都是你不想 與很多人一同工作

of your desire not to have to work with too many people.

而產生意料之外的結果。

LT: Absolutely. Yes.

林：一點也沒錯！是的！

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

CA: That's amazing. LT: Yeah.

克：真了不起。 林：是的。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

And yet, you're the man who's transformed technology

然而，你是轉變科技的人，

not just once but twice,

不只一次，而是二次，

and we have to try and understand why it is.

我們得試著瞭解為什麼會這樣。

You've given us some clues, but ...

你給了我們一些線索，但是……

Here's a picture of you as a kid, with a Rubik's Cube.

這張照片是你小時候， 在玩魔術方塊。

You mentioned that you've been programming since you were like 10 or 11,

你之前提到你大概從 10 或 11 歲就開始寫程式，

half your life.

半輩子。

Were you this sort of computer genius, you know, übernerd,

你是那種電腦天才， 你知道的，超級書呆子，

were you the star at school who could do everything?

學校裡什麼都能做的明星嗎？

What were you like as a kid?

你小時候是什麼樣子？

LT: Yeah, I think I was the prototypical nerd.

林：對，我想我是那種 典型的書呆子。

I mean, I was ...

我是說，我是……

I was not a people person back then.

那時候我就不是愛社交的人。

That's my younger brother.

那是我的弟弟。

I was clearly more interested in the Rubik's Cube

很明顯我對魔術方塊比較有興趣，

than my younger brother.

不太理我弟弟。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

My younger sister, who's not in the picture,

我的妹妹，沒有在照片上，

when we had family meetings --

每次我們大家庭聚在一起──

and it's not a huge family, but I have, like, a couple of cousins --

不是很大的家庭， 但是我有幾個堂兄弟姊妹──

she would prep me beforehand.

她都會先幫我預習一下。

Like, before I stepped into the room she would say,

像在我踏進房門之前她會說：

"OK. That's so-and-so ..."

「看好，這是誰和誰……」

Because I was not --

因為我不──

I was a geek.

我很宅。

I was into computers,

我非常投入電腦，

I was into math,

我非常投入數學，

I was into physics.

我非常投入物理。

I was good at that.

我那項很強。

I don't think I was particularly exceptional.

我從不認為自己很超凡。

Apparently, my sister said

很明顯，我的妹妹總是說

that my biggest exceptional quality was that I would not let go.

我最超凡的特質就是我從不放手。

CA: OK, so let's go there, because that's interesting.

克：好，就來談這個， 因為這很有意思。

You would not let go.

你不放手。

So that's not about being a geek and being smart,

所以這跟宅或聰明沒關，

that's about being ... stubborn?

這是因為你很……固執？

LT: That's about being stubborn.

林：的確是因為我很固執。

That's about, like,

那就像，

just starting something

你才開始了什麼，

and not saying, "OK, I'm done, let's do something else --

你不會說： 「好！不玩了！來做別的吧……

Look: shiny!"

看！那個好亮！」

And I notice that in many other parts in my life, too.

我注意到我在生活其它方面上 也看得到這個特質。

I lived in Silicon Valley for seven years.

我在矽谷住了七年。

And I worked for the same company, in Silicon Valley,

我都待在同一家公司，在矽谷！

for the whole time.

整段時間。

That is unheard of.

這簡直是前所未聞。

That's not how Silicon Valley works.

矽谷不是這樣的。

The whole point of Silicon Valley is that people jump between jobs

矽谷的重點就是 大家在不同的公司跳來跳去，

to kind of mix up the pot.

好像大熔爐一樣。

And that's not the kind of person I am.

但我不是那種人。

CA: But during the actual development of Linux itself,

克：但是在 Linux 本身 實際開發期間，

that stubbornness sometimes brought you in conflict with other people.

那種固執的態度 有時候會帶來人際間的衝突。

Talk about that a bit.

跟我們談談這一點。

Was that essential to sort of maintain the quality of what was being built?

是不是一定要維持 做出來的東西的品質？

How would you describe what happened?

你會怎麼說那時的情況？

LT: I don't know if it's essential.

林：我不知道 那是不是必要的。

Going back to the "I'm not a people person," --

回到我說我不善社交那部分，

sometimes I'm also ...

有的時候我也……

shall we say,

怎麼說呢，

"myopic" when it comes to other people's feelings,

在說到別人的感覺時， 我是「大近視」！

and that sometimes makes you say things that hurt other people.

有時候會讓你說出傷人的話。

And I'm not proud of that.

我一點都不引以為豪。

(Applause)

（掌聲）

But, at the same time, it's --

但是同時，那是……

I get people who tell me that I should be nice.

我碰到有人對我說 我應該更和藹一點。

And then when I try to explain to them that maybe you're nice,

我就會試著對他們解釋說 你們可能很和藹，

maybe you should be more aggressive,

但是你們其實應該更兇一點，

they see that as me being not nice.

他們就咬著說我不和藹。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

What I'm trying to say is we are different.

我想說的是我們都不一樣。

I'm not a people person;

我不善社交；

it's not something I'm particularly proud of,

這不是我特別引以為傲的事情，

but it's part of me.

但是這就是我的一部分。

And one of the things I really like about open source

我真的很喜歡 開放原始碼的一件事，

is it really allows different people to work together.

就是它真的讓不同的人一同合作。

We don't have to like each other --

我們不必喜歡對方，

and sometimes we really don't like each other.

而且有的時候 我們真的不喜歡對方，

Really -- I mean, there are very, very heated arguments.

我是說真的， 的確有很火爆的爭論發生。

But you can, actually, you can find things that --

但是你真的， 你可以看到事情是

you don't even agree to disagree,

你甚至不用刻意同意 大家意見不同，

it's just that you're interested in really different things.

那真的只是 你對不同的事情有興趣。

And coming back to the point where I said earlier

回到我之前說的那一點，

that I was afraid of commercial people taking advantage of your work,

我很怕生意人 占你的工作成果的便宜，

it turned out, and very quickly turned out,

結果，而且是很快 就看到的結果，

that those commercial people were lovely, lovely people.

那些生意人都是非常可愛的人。

And they did all the things that I was not at all interested in doing,

他們做所有我沒興趣做的事，

and they had completely different goals.

而且他們有完全不同的目標。

And they used open source in ways that I just did not want to go.

而且他們就是以我不想用的方式 來用開放原始碼。

But because it was open source they could do it,

但是因為這是開放原始碼， 所以他們可以那麼做，

and it actually works really beautifully together.

其實我們合作得很不錯。

And I actually think it works the same way.

我覺得這件事也一樣。

You need to have the people-people, the communicators,

你需要有善於交際的人， 能做溝通的人，

the warm and friendly people

溫和友善的人，

who like --

他們喜歡……

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

really want to hug you and get you into the community.

真的想給你抱抱， 能讓你融入社群。

But that's not everybody.

但是並非每個人都如此。

And that's not me.

我不是這種人。

I care about the technology.

我關心科技；

There are people who care about the UI.

有的人關心 UI （使用者介面）。

I can't do UI to save my life.

我不會做 UI 來救自己一命。

I mean, if I was stranded on an island

我是說，如果我被困在某個島上，

and the only way to get off that island was the make a pretty UI,

唯一能逃離那個島的方法 是做一個漂亮的 UI，

I'd die there.

我會死在那裡。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So there's different kinds of people,

所以每個人都不一樣，

and I'm not making excuses, I'm trying to explain.

我不是在找藉口， 我只是試著解釋。

CA: Now, when we talked last week,

克：上星期我們聊的時候，

you talked about some other trait that you have,

你談到你其它的特點，

which I found really interesting.

我覺得很有意思，

It's this idea called taste.

就是這個「品味」的想法。

And I've just got a couple of images here.

我這裡有幾張照片。

I think this is an example of not particularly good taste in code,

我想這是寫程式的品味 不太好的例子，

and this one is better taste,

這張的品味比較好，

which one can immediately see.

你可以立刻發現。

What is the difference between these two?

這兩個有什麼不同？

LT: So this is --

林：所以這是——

How many people here actually have coded?

這裡有多少人真的寫過程式？

CA: Oh my goodness.

克：天啊！

LT: So I guarantee you,

林：所以我向你保證，

everybody who raised their hand,

每一位舉手的人，

they have done what's called a singly-linked list.

他們都做過 singly-linked list （單向連結串列）。

And it's taught --

它教……

This, the first not very good taste approach,

這個，第一張不太有品味的方法，

is basically how it's taught to be done when you start out coding.

基本上就是你一開始 學寫程式時教的方法。

And you don't have to understand the code.

你不用懂這個程式。

The most interesting part to me

對我而言最有趣的部分

is the last if statement.

是這個最後的 if 敘述 (if statement)。

Because what happens in a singly-linked list --

因為在單向連結串列裡，

this is trying to remove an existing entry from a list --

這裡是要試著從資料清單中 移除一筆現有的資料，

and there's a difference between if it's the first entry

這是第一筆資料

or whether it's an entry in the middle.

還是中間的資料 會有點不一樣。

Because if it's the first entry,

因為如果這是第一筆資料，

you have to change the pointer to the first entry.

你就必須把指標指向第一筆資料，

If it's in the middle,

如果資料在清單中間，

you have to change the pointer of a previous entry.

你就必須把指標 指向該資料的前一筆資料。

So they're two completely different cases.

所以這是兩個完全不同的例子。

CA: And that's better.

克：那樣比較好。

LT: And this is better.

林：這樣比較好。

It does not have the if statement.

它沒有 if 敘述。

And it doesn't really matter --

這一點也不重要，

I don't want you understand why it doesn't have the if statement,

我不是要你瞭解 為什麼它沒有 if 敘述，

but I want you to understand

但我要你瞭解

that sometimes you can see a problem in a different way

有時候你可以用 不同的角度看問題，

and rewrite it so that a special case goes away

並重寫它， 那麼例外就會消失，

and becomes the normal case.

變成普通情況。

And that's good code.

那就是好的程式。

But this is simple code.

但這是簡單的程式。

This is CS 101.

是必修的程式設計入門。

This is not important -- although, details are important.

這不重要，但是細節很重要。

To me, the sign of people I really want to work with

對我而言，我真的很想 一同工作的人都有個現象，

is that they have good taste, which is how ...

就是他們有好的品味，

I sent you this stupid example

我給你的這個例子很笨，

that is not relevant because it's too small.

一點都不相干，因為太小了。

Good taste is much bigger than this.

好的品味比這個大多了。

Good taste is about really seeing the big patterns

好的品味是 你真的會看到大的模式，

and kind of instinctively knowing what's the right way to do things.

而且好像有直覺 知道什麼是正確的方法。

CA: OK, so we're putting the pieces together here now.

克：好，所以我們現在可以 拼湊出整體的樣子了。

You have taste,

你有品味，

in a way that's meaningful to software people.

而且這個品味 對寫軟體的人而言有意義。

You're --

你是……

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

LT: I think it was meaningful to some people here.

林：我想這對這裡的某些人有意義。

CA: You're a very smart computer coder,

克：你是非常聰明的 電腦程式設計師，

and you're hellish stubborn.

而且你頑固的要命。

But there must be something else.

但是一定還有什麼。

I mean, you've changed the future.

我是說，你改變了未來。

You must have the ability of these grand visions of the future.

你一定有看到宏偉願景的能力。

You're a visionary, right?

你是個有願景的人，對吧？

LT: I've actually felt slightly uncomfortable at TED

林：我過去兩天

for the last two days,

在 TED 大會其實有點不自在，

because there's a lot of vision going on, right?

因為這裡有很多願景，對吧？

And I am not a visionary.

而我不是有願景的人。

I do not have a five-year plan.

我沒有五年計畫。

I'm an engineer.

我是工程師。

And I think it's really --

而且我覺得這真的──

I mean -- I'm perfectly happy with all the people

我是說，我對這些人 一點意見也沒有，

who are walking around and just staring at the clouds

他們可以四海飄遊，看看雲，

and looking at the stars and saying, "I want to go there."

看看星星，然後說： 「我想去那裡。」

But I'm looking at the ground,

但是我是看著地面的人，

and I want to fix the pothole that's right in front of me

而且我想把那個 就在我正前方的坑洞補好，

before I fall in.

免得我跌倒。

This is the kind of person I am.

我就是這種人。

(Cheers)

（歡呼）

(Applause)

（掌聲）

CA: So you spoke to me last week about these two guys.

克：你兩個星期前 跟我談到這兩個傢伙。

Who are they and how do you relate to them?

他們是誰？ 你跟他們有什麼關係？

LT: Well, so this is kind of cliché in technology,

林：嗯，這可以說是 科技界老掉牙的故事了，

the whole Tesla versus Edison,

特斯拉對上愛迪生，

where Tesla is seen as the visionary scientist and crazy idea man.

特斯拉被視為有願景的科學家 和有瘋狂想法的人。

And people love Tesla.

大家都愛特斯拉。

I mean, there are people who name their companies after him.

我是說，有人還用他的名字 命名自己的公司。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

The other person there is Edison,

另外一位是愛迪生，

who is actually often vilified for being kind of pedestrian

他常被人貶低為那種平庸的路人甲，

and is --

而且是──

I mean, his most famous quote is,

我是說，他最膾炙人口的名言是：

"Genius is one percent inspiration and 99 percent perspiration."

「天才是百分之一的靈感 加上百分之九十九的汗水。」

And I'm in the Edison camp,

我是站在愛迪生這一邊的，

even if people don't always like him.

即使大家並不都喜歡他。

Because if you actually compare the two,

因為如果你實際比較這兩位，

Tesla has kind of this mind grab these days,

特斯拉最近還挺夯的，

but who actually changed the world?

但是誰真的改變了世界？

Edison may not have been a nice person,

愛迪生或許不是一個和善的人，

he did a lot of things --

他做了很多事，

he was maybe not so intellectual,

他可能沒那麼聰明，

not so visionary.

也沒有看得那麼遠。

But I think I'm more of an Edison than a Tesla.

但是我想我更像愛迪生， 而不是特斯拉。

CA: So our theme at TED this week is dreams --

克：所以這個星期我們 TED 大會的主題是夢想，

big, bold, audacious dreams.

膽大無畏的夢想。

You're really the antidote to that.

你真的是個反面教材。

LT: I'm trying to dial it down a bit, yes.

林：我是想要往回拉一下，是的。

CA: That's good.

克：很好。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

We embrace you, we embrace you.

我們接納你，我們接納你。

Companies like Google and many others have made, arguably,

像 Google 這樣的公司 還有其他的人都可以說

like, billions of dollars out of your software.

靠你的軟體賺了幾十億元，

Does that piss you off?

這讓你生氣嗎？

LT: No.

林：不會。

No, it doesn't piss me off for several reasons.

不會，我不生氣有幾個原因。

And one of them is, I'm doing fine.

其中一個是，我過得還不錯。

I'm really doing fine.

我真的過得挺好的。

But the other reason is --

但是另外一個原因是，

I mean, without doing the whole open source and really letting go thing,

我是說，如果沒有做這個 開放原始碼而且沒有真的放手，

Linux would never have been what it is.

Linux 不可能發展成今天的樣子。

And it's brought experiences I don't really enjoy, public talking,

它的確也為我帶來

我不太喜歡的經驗， 像是公開演講，

but at the same time, this is an experience.

但同時，這也是一種經驗。

Trust me.

相信我。

So there's a lot of things going on that make me a very happy man

所以發生了很多事 讓我成為非常快樂的人，

and thinking I did the right choices.

也讓我認為我做了正確的決定。

CA: Is the open source idea --

克：這個開放原始碼想法

this is, I think we'll end here --

這是──我想我們該結束了──

is the open source idea fully realized now in the world,

現在全世界都完全瞭解 這個開放原始碼的想法了嗎？

or is there more that it could go,

還是還有很多可以發展的？

are there more things that it could do?

還有很多事可以做嗎？

LT: So, I'm of two minds there.

林：其實我不太確定。

I think one reason open source works so well in code

我想開放原始碼 在程式開發上這麼成功，

is that at the end of the day,

其中一個原因是最終，

code tends to be somewhat black and white.

程式往往是黑白的。

There's often a fairly good way to decide,

我們常常有還不錯的方法判斷

this is done correctly and this is not done well.

這個做對了，那個不太好。

Code either works or it doesn't,

程式只有會動與不會動兩種，

which means that there's less room for arguments.

這意味著沒有什麼空間爭論。

And we have arguments despite this, right?

儘管如此 我們還是有很多爭論，對吧？

In many other areas --

在其它很多地方，

I mean, people have talked about open politics and things like that --

我是說，大家在談論 開放政治或類似的東西，

and it's really hard sometimes to say

有時候真的很難說：

that, yes, you can apply the same principles in some other areas

是的，你可以運用相同的原則 在其它領域上，

just because the black and white turns into not just gray,

因為黑與白不但會變成灰，

but different colors.

還會變成其它不同的顏色。

So, obviously open source in science is making a comeback.

看得出來開放資源的觀念 現在在科學界又流行起來。

Science was there first.

科學早就是那樣了。

But then science ended up being pretty closed,

但是之後科學變的非常封閉，

with very expensive journals and some of that going on.

還有非常貴的期刊 和一些有的沒的東西。

And open source is making a comeback in science,

開放資源的觀念 在科學界又流行起來，

with things like arXiv and open journals.

現在有像是 arXiv 開放式論文網站 和其它開放式期刊。

Wikipedia changed the world, too.

維基百科也改變了世界。

So there are other examples,

還有其它的例子，

I'm sure there are more to come.

我確信以後還會出現更多。

CA: But you're not a visionary,

克：但是你不是願景家，

and so it's not up to you to name them.

所以這可不是由你來說的。

LT: No.

林：沒錯。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

It's up to you guys to make them, right?

這是你們這些人要創造的，對吧？

CA: Exactly.

克：沒錯。

Linus Torvalds,

林納斯·托瓦茲，

thank you for Linux, thank you for the Internet,

謝謝你給了我們 Linux， 謝謝你給了我們網路，

thank you for all those Android phones.

也謝謝你給了我們 Android 手機。

Thank you for coming here to TED and revealing so much of yourself.

謝謝你蒞臨 TED 與我們開誠布公。

LT: Thank you.

林：謝謝！

(Applause)

（掌聲）