What we didn't know about male anatomy | Diane Kelly

1,220,501 views ・ 2012-06-05

TED


Please double-click on the English subtitles below to play the video.

00:00
Translator: Timothy Covell Reviewer: Morton Bast
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Prevodilac: Predrag Djordjevic Lektor: Tatjana Jevdjic
00:15
When I go to parties,
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Kada odem na žurke,
00:16
it doesn't usually take very long
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obično ne prođe puno vremena
00:18
for people to find out
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dok ljudi ne saznaju
00:19
that I'm a scientist and I study sex.
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da sam naučnik i da proučavam seks.
00:22
And then I get asked questions.
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Onda mi postavljaju pitanja.
00:27
And the questions usually have a very particular format.
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Pitanja obično imaju veoma specifičan oblik.
00:30
They start with the phrase,
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Počinju sa frazom:
00:32
"A friend told me,"
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"Prijatelj mi je rekao",
00:33
and then they end with the phrase,
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a završavaju se frazom:
00:35
"Is this true?"
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"Da li je ovo tačno?"
00:37
And most of the time
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Uglavnom mi je drago
00:39
I'm glad to say that I can answer them,
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da mogu da im odgovorim,
00:41
but sometimes I have to say,
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ali ponekad moram da kažem:
00:43
"I'm really sorry,
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"Zaista mi je žao,
00:44
but I don't know
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ali ne znam,
00:45
because I'm not that kind of a doctor."
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zato što ja nisam ta vrsta doktora."
00:48
That is, I'm not a clinician,
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To jest, ja nisam kliničar,
00:50
I'm a comparative biologist who studies anatomy.
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ja sam komparativni biolog koji proučava anatomiju.
00:53
And my job is to look at lots of different species of animals
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Moj posao je da pregledam mnogo različitih životinjskih vrsta
00:56
and try to figure out how their tissues and organs work
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i pokušam da shvatim kako njihova tkiva i organi rade
00:59
when everything's going right,
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kada je sve u redu,
01:01
rather than trying to figure out
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a ne da pokušavam da shvatim
01:03
how to fix things when they go wrong,
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kako da popravim stvari kada krenu po zlu,
01:04
like so many of you.
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kao što rade mnogi od vas.
01:05
And what I do is I look for similarities and differences
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Ono što radim jeste da tražim sličnosti i razlike
01:08
in the solutions that they've evolved
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u evolutivnim rešenjima
01:10
for fundamental biological problems.
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za osnovne biološke probleme.
01:12
So today I'm here to argue
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Danas sam ovde da bih raspravila
01:13
that this is not at all
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da ovo uopšte nije
01:17
an esoteric Ivory Tower activity
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neka ezoterična, beskorisna aktivnost,
01:19
that we find at our universities,
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koju nalazimo na našim univerzitetima.
01:20
but that broad study
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To obimno proučavanje,
01:22
across species, tissue types and organ systems
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preko različitih vrsta, tipova tkiva i sistema organa,
01:25
can produce insights
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može da pruži uvide
01:27
that have direct implications for human health.
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koji imaju direktne implikacije na ljudsko zdravlje.
01:30
And this is true both of my recent project
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Ovo je istina za oba moja skorašnja istraživanja
01:33
on sex differences in the brain,
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polnih razlika u mozgu,
01:35
and my more mature work
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kao i za moj stariji rad
01:37
on the anatomy and function of penises.
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o anatomiji i funkciji penisa.
01:39
And now you know why I'm fun at parties.
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Sada znate zašto sam zabavna na žurkama.
01:42
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
01:43
So today I'm going to give you an example
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Danas ću vam dati jedan primer
01:45
drawn from my penis study
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izvučen iz moje studije o penisu,
01:47
to show you how knowledge
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da bih vam pokazala kako je znanje
01:49
drawn from studies of one organ system
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uzeto iz proučavanja jednog sistema organa,
01:50
provided insights into a very different one.
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pružilo uvid u veoma različit sistem.
01:53
Now I'm sure as everyone in the audience already knows --
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Sada, sigurna sam da svi u publici već znaju --
01:56
I did have to explain it to my nine-year-old late last week --
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morala sam to da objasnim svom devetogodišnjaku krajem prošle nedelje --
02:00
penises are structures that transfer sperm
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penisi su strukture koje prenose spermu
02:04
from one individual to another.
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od jedne osobe do druge.
02:05
And the slide behind me
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Slajd iza mene
02:06
barely scratches the surface
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je jedva zagrebao površinu
02:08
of how widespread they are in animals.
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njihove rasprostranjenosti među životinjama.
02:10
There's an enormous amount of anatomical variation.
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Postoji ogroman broj anatomskih varijacija.
02:12
You find muscular tubes, modified legs, modified fins,
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Nalazite mišićne cevi, modifikovane noge, modifikovana peraja,
02:16
as well as the mammalian fleshy, inflatable cylinder
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kao i mesnati cilindar sisara koji može da se naduva
02:20
that we're all familiar with --
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koji svi poznajemo --
02:21
or at least half of you are.
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ili bar polovina vas.
02:24
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
02:26
And I think we see this tremendous variation
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Mislim da vidimo ove neverovatne varijacije
02:29
because it's a really effective solution
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zato što je to veoma efikasno rešenje
02:32
to a very basic biological problem,
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za bazični biološki problem,
02:34
and that is getting sperm in a position
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a to je postavljanje sperme u položaj
02:37
to meet up with eggs and form zygotes.
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iz kog može da se sretne sa jajnom ćelijom i formira zigot.
02:39
Now the penis isn't actually required for internal fertiliztion,
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Sada, penis zapravo nije neophodan za unutrašnje oplođenje,
02:43
but when internal fertilization evolves,
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ali kada se unutrašnje oplođenje javlja u evoluciji,
02:46
penises often follow.
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penisi tu promenu često prate.
02:48
And the question I get when I start talking about this most often is,
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Pitanje koje mi najčešće postave, kada počnem da pričam o ovome, je:
02:52
"What made you interested in this subject?"
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"Šta te je zainteresovalo za ovu temu?"
02:55
And the answer is skeletons.
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Odgovor je - skeleti.
02:59
You wouldn't think that skeletons and penises
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Ne biste pomislili da skeleti i penisi
03:02
have very much to do with one another.
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imaju bilo šta zajedničko.
03:03
And that's because we tend to think of skeletons
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Ovo je zbog toga što smo skloni da o skeletima razmišljamo
03:06
as stiff lever systems
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kao o krutim sistemima poluga
03:07
that produce speed or power.
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koji proizvode brzinu ili snagu.
03:09
And my first forays into biological research,
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Moji prvi pokušaji bioloških istraživanja
03:12
doing dinosaur paleontology as an undergraduate,
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dok sam se kao student bavila paleontologijom dinosaurusa,
03:15
were really squarely in that realm.
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su nedvosmisleno bili iz ove oblasti.
03:17
But when I went to graduate school to study biomechanics,
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Ali kada sam otišla na postdiplomske studije biomehanike,
03:20
I really wanted to find a dissertation project
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zaista sam želela da nađem projekat za disertaciju
03:22
that would expand our knowledge of skeletal function.
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koji bi proširio naše znanje u funkciji skeleta.
03:25
I tried a bunch of different stuff.
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Pokušala sam mnoštvo različitih stvari.
03:27
A lot of it didn't pan out.
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Mnoge nisu uspele.
03:29
But then one day I started thinking
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Međutim, jednog dana sam počela da razmišljam
03:31
about the mammalian penis.
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o penisu sisara.
03:32
And it's really an odd sort of structure.
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To je zaista neobična vrsta strukture.
03:36
Before it can be used for internal fertilization,
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Pre nego što može da se upotrebi za unutrašnje oplođenje,
03:39
its mechanical behavior has to change
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njegova mehanička svojstva moraju da se promene
03:41
in a really dramatic fashion.
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na zaista dramatičan način.
03:42
Most of the time it's a flexible organ.
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Većinu vremena, to je fleksibilan organ.
03:45
It's easy to bend.
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Lako ga je saviti.
03:46
But before it's brought into use
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Ali pre nego bude upotrebljen,
03:48
during copulation
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tokom snošaja,
03:49
it has to become rigid,
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mora da postane krut,
03:51
it has to become difficult to bend.
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mora da postane težak za savijanje.
03:53
And moreover, it has to work.
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Štaviše, mora da radi.
03:55
A reproductive system that fails to function
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Reproduktivni sistem koji podbaci u funkciji
03:58
produces an individual that has no offspring,
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daje individuu koja nema potomstvo
04:01
and that individual is then kicked out of the gene pool.
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i ona je onda izbačena iz sveukupne baze gena.
04:04
And so I thought, "Here's a problem
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Onda sam pomislila: "Evo problema
04:07
that just cries out for a skeletal system --
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koji jednostavno vapi za skeletnim sistemom --
04:10
not one like this one,
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ne za nekim poput ovoga,
04:13
but one like this one --
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već za jednim kao ovaj" --
04:16
because, functionally,
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zato što, funkcionalno gledano,
04:19
a skeleton is any system
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skelet je bilo koji sistem
04:20
that supports tissue and transmits forces.
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koji podupire tkiva i prenosi sile.
04:23
And I already knew that animals like this earthworm,
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Već sam znala da životinje, poput ove gliste,
04:26
indeed most animals,
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u stvari, većina životinja,
04:27
don't support their tissues
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na podupire svoja tkiva
04:29
by draping them over bones.
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time što njima prekriva svoje kosti.
04:30
Instead they're more like reinforced water balloons.
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Umesto toga, oni su više kao ojačani vodeni baloni.
04:33
They use a skeleton that we call a hydrostatic skeleton.
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Oni koriste skelet koji mi nazivamo hidrostatički skelet.
04:37
And a hydrostatic skeleton
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Hidrostatički skelet
04:39
uses two elements.
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koristi dva elementa.
04:41
The skeletal support comes from an interaction
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Potpora skeleta potiče iz interakcije
04:43
between a pressurized fluid
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tečnosti pod pritiskom
04:45
and a surrounding wall of tissue
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i okolnog tkivnog zida
04:47
that's held in tension and reinforced with fibrous proteins.
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koji je zategnut i ojačan fibroznim proteinima.
04:51
And the interaction is crucial.
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Ova interakcija je ključna.
04:53
Without both elements you have no support.
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Bez oba elementa nema potpore.
04:57
If you have fluid
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Ako imate tečnost
04:58
with no wall to surround it
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bez okolnog zida
05:00
and keep pressure up,
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koji održava povišen pritisak,
05:01
you have a puddle.
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dobijate baru.
05:03
And if you have just the wall
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A ako imate samo zid,
05:05
with no fluid inside of it to put the wall in tension,
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bez tečnosti unutra koja će izvršiti pritisak na zid,
05:07
you've got a little wet rag.
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onda dobijete malu, vlažnu krpu.
05:09
When you look at a penis in cross section,
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Kada pogledate presek penisa
05:12
it has a lot of the hallmarks
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on ima mnoštvo obeležja
05:14
of a hydrostatic skeleton.
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hidrostatičkog skeleta.
05:16
It has a central space
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Ima centralni prostor
05:18
of spongy erectile tissue
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od erektilnog, sunđerastog tkiva
05:19
that fills with fluid -- in this case blood --
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koji je ispunjen tečnošću -- u ovom slučaju krvlju --
05:22
surrounded by a wall of tissue
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a okružen je zidom tkiva
05:24
that's rich in a stiff structural protein called collagen.
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bogatim čvrstim strukturnim proteinom koji zovemo kolagen.
05:28
But at the time when I started this project,
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U vreme kada sam započela ovaj projekat,
05:31
the best explanation I could find for penal erection
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najbolje objašnjenje koje sam mogla da pronađem za erekciju penisa
05:34
was that the wall surrounded these spongy tissues,
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je da zid okružuje ova sunđerasta tkiva,
05:38
and the spongy tissues filled with blood
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a sunđerasta tkiva se ispune krvlju,
05:40
and pressure rose and voila! it became erect.
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pritisak raste i eto! Postao je uspravan.
05:43
And that explained to me expansion --
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I to mi je objasnilo ekspanziju --
05:47
made sense: more fluid, you get tissues that expand --
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imalo je smisla: više tečnosti, dobijete tkiva koja se šire --
05:51
but it didn't actually explain erection.
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ali zapravo nije objasnilo erekciju.
05:54
Because there was no mechanism in this explanation
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Zato što u ovom objašnjenju nema mehanizma
05:57
for making this structure hard to bend.
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koji bi strukturu napravio teškom za savijanje.
06:00
And no one had systematically looked at the wall tissue.
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Niko nije sistematski pogledao tkivo zida.
06:03
So I thought, wall tissue's important in skeletons.
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Pomislila sam, tkivo zida je značajno u skeletima.
06:06
It has to be part of the explanation.
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Ono mora da bude deo objašnjenja.
06:08
And this was the point
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U ovom trenutku
06:11
at which my graduate adviser said,
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moj mentor je rekao:
06:13
"Whoa! Hold on. Slow down."
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"Opa! Čekaj. Stani malo."
06:17
Because after about six months of me talking about this,
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Nakon otprilike šest meseci pričanja o ovome,
06:20
I think he finally figured out
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mislila sam da je konačno shvatio
06:21
that I was really serious about the penis thing.
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da sam zaista bila ozbiljna o ovoj stvari sa penisom.
06:24
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
06:27
So he sat me down, and he warned me.
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Rekao mi je da sednem i upozorio me.
06:29
He was like, "Be careful going down this path.
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Rekao je: "Budi oprezna na tom putu.
06:32
I'm not sure this project's going to pan out."
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Nisam siguran da će ovaj projekat uspeti."
06:34
Because he was afraid I was walking into a trap.
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Plašio se da ću upasti u zamku.
06:37
I was taking on a socially embarrassing question
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Preuzela sam društveno neprijatno pitanje
06:42
with an answer that he thought
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sa odgovorom, za koji je on mislio
06:44
might not be particularly interesting.
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da neće biti naročito interesantan.
06:46
And that was because
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To je bilo zbog toga što je
06:48
every hydrostatic skeleton
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svaki hidrostatički skelet,
06:50
that we had found in nature up to that point
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koji smo do tog trenutka pronašli u prirodi,
06:52
had the same basic elements.
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imao iste osnovne elemente.
06:53
It had the central fluid,
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Imao je centralnu tečnost,
06:55
it had the surrounding wall,
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imao je okolni zid,
06:56
and the reinforcing fibers in the wall
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a potporna vlakna u zidu
07:00
were arranged in crossed helices
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su bila organizovana u ukrštene navoje
07:02
around the long axis of the skeleton.
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duž uzdužne ose skeleta.
07:04
So the image behind me
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Slika iza mene
07:05
shows a piece of tissue
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pokazuje deo tkiva
07:07
in one of these cross helical skeletons
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jednog od ovih skeleta sa ukrštenim navojima,
07:09
cut so that you're looking at the surface of the wall.
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presečenog tako da vidimo površinu zida.
07:12
The arrow shows you the long axis.
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Strelica vam pokazuje uzdužnu osu.
07:13
And you can see two layers of fibers,
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Možete da vidite dva sloja vlakana,
07:15
one in blue and one in yellow,
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jedan plav, a drugi žut,
07:17
arranged in left-handed and right-handed angles.
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organizovana u leve i desne spirale.
07:20
And if you weren't just looking at a little section of the fibers,
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Ukoliko ne biste gledali samo mali presek ovih vlakana,
07:22
those fibers would be going in helices
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ta vlakna bi se kretala u navojima
07:25
around the long axis of the skeleton --
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duž uzdužne ose skeleta --
07:26
something like a Chinese finger trap,
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nešto poput kineske zamke za prste,
07:28
where you stick your fingers in and they get stuck.
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gde ubacite svoje prste unutra i oni se zaglave.
07:30
And these skeletons have a particular set of behaviors,
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Ovi skeleti imaju specifičan set ponašanja,
07:33
which I'm going to demonstrate in a film.
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koja ću vam demonstrirati jednim filmom.
07:35
It's a model skeleton
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Ovo je model skeleta
07:37
that I made out of a piece of cloth
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koji sam napravila od parčeta tkanine,
07:39
that I wrapped around an inflated balloon.
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koje sam obmotala oko naduvanog balona.
07:41
The cloth's cut on the bias.
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Tkanina je isečena po dijagonali.
07:43
So you can see that the fibers wrap in helices,
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Vidite da su vlakna umotana u navoje
07:46
and those fibers can reorient as the skeleton moves,
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i ta vlakna mogu da se reorijentišu kako se skelet pomera,
07:50
which means the skeleton's flexible.
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što znači da je skelet fleksibilan.
07:52
It lengthens, shortens and bends really easily
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Produžava se, skraćuje i savija veoma lako
07:54
in response to internal or external forces.
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kao odgovor na unutrašnje ili spoljašnje sile.
07:58
Now my adviser's concern
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Moj mentor je brinuo,
07:59
was what if the penile wall tissue
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šta ako je tkivo zida penisa
08:01
is just the same as any other hydrostatic skeleton.
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isto kao i bilo koji drugi hidrostatički skelet.
08:03
What are you going to contribute?
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Čime ćeš da doprineseš?
08:05
What new thing are you contributing
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Kojim to novim otkrićem doprinosiš
08:06
to our knowledge of biology?
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našem znanju iz biologije?
08:08
And I thought, "Yeah, he does have a really good point here."
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Pomislila sam: "Da, zaista je u pravu."
08:11
So I spent a long, long time thinking about it.
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Provela sam puno, puno vremena razmišljajući o tome.
08:13
And one thing kept bothering me,
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Jedna stvar me je brinula,
08:15
and that's, when they're functioning,
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a to je, kada oni funkcionišu,
08:18
penises don't wiggle.
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penisi se ne migolje.
08:20
(Laughter)
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(Smeh)
08:22
So something interesting had to be going on.
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Dakle, nešto interesantno je moralo da se događa.
08:25
So I went ahead, collected wall tissue,
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Nastavila sam, prikupila tkivo zida,
08:28
prepared it so it was erect,
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pripremila ga, tako da je bilo uzdignuto,
08:30
sectioned it, put it on slides
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secirala, stavila na slajd,
08:32
and then stuck it under the microscope to have a look,
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a onda ga gurnula pod mikroskop da pogledam,
08:35
fully expecting to see crossed helices of collagen of some variety.
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očekujući da vidim presečenu neku vrstu navoja kolagena.
08:40
But instead I saw this.
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Umesto toga, videla sam ovo.
08:42
There's an outer layer and an inner layer.
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Postoji unutrašnji i spoljašnji sloj.
08:45
The arrow shows you the long axis of the skeleton.
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Strelica vam pokazuje dužu osu skeleta.
08:48
I was really surprised at this.
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Bila sam zaista iznenađena ovim.
08:50
Everyone I showed it
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Svako kome sam ovo pokazala
08:51
was really surprised at this.
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se iznenadio.
08:52
Why was everyone surprised at this?
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Zašto su svi bili iznenađeni ovim?
08:54
That's because we knew theoretically
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Zato što smo teorijski znali
08:57
that there was another way
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da postoji drugi način
09:00
of arranging fibers in a hydrostatic skeleton,
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organizovanja vlakana u hidrostatičkom skeletu,
09:03
and that was with fibers at zero degrees
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a to je, vlakna su postavljena na nula stepeni
09:05
and 90 degrees to the long axis of the structure.
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i na 90 stepeni u odnosu na dužu osu strukture.
09:09
The thing is, no one had ever seen it before in nature.
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Stvar je u tome, niko to pre nije video u prirodi.
09:12
And now I was looking at one.
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A sada sam gledala u jedan primer.
09:15
Those fibers in that particular orientation
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Ta vlakna, sa tom specifičnom orijentacijom,
09:18
give the skeleton a very, very different behavior.
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daju skeletu veoma, veoma drugačije ponašanje.
09:21
I'm going to show a model
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Pokazaću vam model
09:22
made out of exactly the same materials.
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napravljen od potpuno istih materijala.
09:24
So it'll be made of the same cotton cloth,
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Biće napravljen od iste pamučne tkanine,
09:26
same balloon, same internal pressure.
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istog balona, sa istim unutrašnjim pritiskom.
09:29
But the only difference
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Jedina razlika
09:32
is that the fibers are arranged differently.
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je što su vlakna organizovana na drugačiji način.
09:34
And you'll see that, unlike the cross helical model,
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Videćete da, za razliku od modela sa ukrštenim navojima,
09:37
this model resists extension and contraction
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ovaj model odoleva širenju i skupljanju
09:40
and resists bending.
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i odoleva savijanju.
09:41
Now what that tells us
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To nam govori da
09:42
is that wall tissues are doing so much more
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tkiva zidova obavljaju mnogo više
09:45
than just covering the vascular tissues.
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od pukog pokrivanja vaskularnih tkiva.
09:47
They're an integral part of the penile skeleton.
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Ona su sastavni deo skeleta penisa.
09:51
If the wall around the erectile tissue wasn't there,
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Da zid oko erektilnog tkiva nije tamo,
09:53
if it wasn't reinforced in this way,
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da nije ojačan na ovaj način,
09:55
the shape would change,
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oblik bi se promenio,
09:56
but the inflated penis would not resist bending,
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pa naduvani penis ne bi odoleo savijanju
09:59
and erection simply wouldn't work.
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i erekcija jednostavno ne bi radila.
10:01
It's an observation with obvious medical applications
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To je opažanje sa očiglednom medicinskom primenom
10:03
in humans as well,
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kod ljudi,
10:05
but it's also relevant in a broad sense, I think,
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ali je isto tako relevantno i u širem smislu,
10:08
to the design of prosthetics, soft robots,
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u dizajnu protetskih pomagala, mekih robota,
10:11
basically anything
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u osnovi bilo čega
10:12
where changes of shape and stiffness are important.
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gde su promene u obliku i tvrdoći bitne.
10:15
So to sum up:
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Dakle, da rezimiram:
10:17
Twenty years ago,
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Pre dvadeset godina
10:18
I had a college adviser tell me,
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imala sam mentora,
10:20
when I went to the college and said,
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kada sam otišla kod njega i rekla:
10:22
"I'm kind of interested in anatomy,"
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"Pomalo se interesujem za anatomiju",
10:23
they said, "Anatomy's a dead science."
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dobila sam odgovor: "Anatomija je mrtva nauka."
10:25
He couldn't have been more wrong.
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Nije mogao više da pogreši.
10:27
I really believe that we still have a lot to learn
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Ja zaista verujem da još uvek imamo dosta toga da naučimo
10:30
about the normal structure and function of our bodies.
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o normalnoj strukturi i funkciji naših tela.
10:33
Not just about its genetics and molecular biology,
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Ne samo o njegovoj genetici i molekularnoj biologiji,
10:36
but up here in the meat end of the scale.
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nego i ovde gore, ne poslednjem stepenu evolucije.
10:39
We've got limits on our time.
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Imamo ograničenja sa našim vremenom.
10:41
We often focus on one disease,
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Često se fokusiramo na jednu bolest,
10:43
one model, one problem,
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jedan model, jedan problem,
10:44
but my experience suggests
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ali moje iskustvo upućuje
10:46
that we should take the time
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da treba da izdvojimo vreme
10:48
to apply ideas broadly between systems
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i primenimo ideje široko među sistemima
10:50
and just see where it takes us.
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i vidimo gde će nas to odvesti.
10:52
After all, if ideas about invertebrate skeletons
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Na kraju, ako nam ideje o skeletima beskičmenjaka
10:56
can give us insights
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mogu dati uvide
10:57
about mammalian reproductive systems,
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o reproduktivnim sistemima sisara,
10:59
there could be lots of other wild and productive connections
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može postojati mnogo fantastičnih i produktivnih veza
11:03
lurking out there just waiting to be found.
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koje vrebaju i čekaju da budu otkrivene.
11:06
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
11:08
(Applause)
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(Aplauz)
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