The case for anonymity online | Christopher "moot" Poole

Prevodilac: Marijana Stojanović Lektor: Mile Živković

Tom Green: That's a 4chan thing.

Tom Grin: To je sa 4chan-a.

These kids on the Internet, they have this group of kids

Postoji grupa klinaca na internetu

and they like to say funny words

koja voli da koristi neobične reči

like "barrel roll."

kao što je "bure valjak" (barrel roll).

It's a video game move from "Star Fox."

To je potez iz video igrice "Star Fox".

"Star Fox 20"? (Assistant: "Star Fox 64.")

"Star Fox 20"? (Asistent: "Star Fox 64.")

Tom Green: Yeah. And they've been dogging me for a year.

Tom Grin: Da. I godinu dana me gnjave.

I got to tell you, it's driving me nuts, actually.

Moram da priznam da me dovodi do ludila.

Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I scream,

Ponekad se probudim u sred noći i vrisnem:

"4chan!"

"4chan!"

Christopher Poole: When I was 15,

Kristofer Pul: Kada sam imao petnaest godina,

I found this website called Futaba Channel.

pronašao sam veb sajt pod imenom Futaba Kanal.

And it was a Japanese forum and imageboard.

Bio je to japanski forum i sajt za postavljanje slika.

That format of forum, at that time,

U to doba, forum takvog formata

was not well-known outside of Japan.

nije bio poznat nigde osim u Japanu.

And so what I did is I took it, I translated it into English,

Zbog toga sam ja taj format uzeo, preveo ga na engleski

and I stuck it up for my friends to use.

i postavio ga na internet na korišćenje mojim prijateljima.

Now, six and a half years later,

A sada, šest i po godina kasnije,

over seven million people are using it,

koristi ga preko sedam miliona ljudi,

contributing over 700,000 posts per day.

doprinoseći sa više od 700.000 postova na dan.

And we've gone from one board

I prešli smo sa jednog podforuma

to 48 boards.

na 48.

This is what it looks like.

Ovako to izgleda.

So, what's unique about the site

Ono što je jedinstveno za ovaj sajt

is that it's anonymous,

je to da je anoniman

and it has no memory.

i da nema memoriju.

There's no archive, there are no barriers, there's no registration.

Ne postoji arhiva, nema ograničenja, nema registracije.

These things that we're used to with forums

Ono što se za druge forume podrazumeva,

don't exist on 4chan.

na 4chan-u ne postoji.

And that's led to this

I upravo to dovodi

discussion that's completely raw, completely unfiltered.

do pravih, nefiltriranih diskusija.

What the site's known for,

Ono po čemu je sajt poznat,

because it has this environment,

upravo zbog ovakve sredine,

is it's fostered the creation of a lot of

je da je iznedrio mnogobrojne internet fenomene

Internet phenomena, viral videos and whatnot, known as "memes."

i popularne video snimke, poznatije kao meme.

Two of the largest memes that have come out of this site

Dva najveća mima koja su nastala na ovom sajtu -

some of you might be familiar with are these LOLcats --

a nekima od vas su možda već poznate, su LOLmačke -

just silly pictures of cats with text.

one smešne slike mačaka sa tekstom.

And this resonates with millions of people, apparently,

U ovome se očigledno prepoznaje na milione ljudi,

because there are tens of thousands of these,

jer postoje na desetine hiljada ovakvih slika

and there is a whole blogging empire now

i danas postoji čitavo bloging carstvo

dedicated to pictures like these.

posvećeno slikama kao što su ove.

And Rick Astley's kind of rebirth

I svojevrsno "ponovno rođenje" Rika Estlija

these past two years ...

u protekle dve godine.

Rickroll was this bait and switch,

"Rikrol" je u neku ruku vrsta "namami pa zameni" prevare,

really simple, classic bait and switch.

veoma jednostavna, klasična "namami pa zameni".

Somebody says they're linking to something interesting,

Neko vam kaže da vam šalje link za nešto interesantno,

and you get an '80s pop song. That's all it was.

a umesto toga dobijete pop pesmu iz osamdesetih.

And it got big enough to the point where

I postalo je toliko popularno, da je dovelo do toga

there was a float last year at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade,

da je u toku prošlogodišnje "Mejsijeve" parade za Dan zahvalnosti

and Rick Astley pops out, and rickrolls

sam Rik Estli iskočio iz jedne od platformi i "rikrolovao"

millions of people on television.

milione ljudi na televiziji.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

There are thousands of memes that come out of the site.

Postoji na hiljade mimova koji su proizašli iz sajta.

There are a handful that have escaped into the mainstream,

Šačica njih je pobegla u mejnstrim

the ones I've just shown you,

i to ove koje sam vam upravo pokazao,

but every day, every month,

ali svakog dana, svakog meseca

people are producing thousands of these.

ljudi stvaraju na hiljade njih.

So does a site like this have rules?

Dakle, da li sajt poput ovog ima pravila?

We do; they're the codified rules that I've come up with,

Imamo ih - to su kodifikovana pravila koja sam smislio

which are more-or-less ignored by the community.

i koja čitava zajednica manje-više ignoriše.

And so they've come up with their own set of rules,

Zato su članovi smislili sopstvena pravila,

the "Rules of the Internet."

takozvana "pravila interneta."

And so there are three that I want to show you specifically.

Postoje tri koja bih podelio sa vama.

Rule one is you don't talk about /b/.

Prvo pravilo je da ne pričaš o /b/.

Two is you do not talk about /b/.

Drugo je da ne pričaš o /b/.

And this one's kind of interesting:

I naredno je interesantno:

"If it exists, there is porn of it. No exceptions."

"Ako nešto postoji, ima i pornografija toga. Bez izuzetaka."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

And I will spare you that slide.

Taj slajd vam neću pokazati.

I assure you, it is very true.

Uveravam vas, sasvim je tačno.

/b/ is the first board we started with,

/b/ je prvi podforum sa kojim smo počeli

and it is, in many ways,

i na mnogo načina je

the beating heart of the website.

samo srce celog veb sajta.

It is where a third of all the traffic is going.

On čini trećinu prometa.

And /b/ is known for,

/b/ je poznat po

more than anything,

više nego ičemu,

not just the memes they've created, but the exploits.

ne samo mimovima koje je stvorio, već i po masovnim akcijama.

And Chris just touched on one of those a second ago,

Kris je samo pomenuo jednu od tih malopre

and that was the Time 100 poll.

i to baš anketu "Tajm 100".

So somebody at Time, at the magazine,

Izgleda da je neko iz "Tajm" magazina

thought it would be fun to nominate me

mislio da bi bilo zabavno nominovati mene

for this thing they did last year.

za nekakav izbor prošle godine.

And so they placed me on it,

Stavili su moje ime na listu kandidata

and the Internet got wind of it. My community

i internet je ubrzo saznao za to. Moja zajednica

decided they wanted me to win it.

je odlučila da želi da pobedim.

I didn't instruct them to do it; they just decided that that's what they wanted.

Nisam im ništa naredio - sami su odlučili da je to nešto što oni žele.

And so, you know, 390 percent approval rating ain't so bad.

I znate, 390 procenata glasova i nije tako loše.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So they broke that poll.

Rasturili su anketu.

And I ended up on top.

I ja sam dospeo na vrh liste.

I ended up at this really fancy party.

Završio sam na veoma otmenoj zabavi.

But that's not what's interesting about this.

Međutim, ovaj čin nije zbog toga interesantan.

It's that they weren't putting me at the top of this list;

Već zbog toga što korisnici ne samo da su mene stavljali na vrh liste;

they were actually --

oni su, u stvari -

it got so sophisticated to the point where they gamed

postalo je toliko precizno, da su se u jednom momentu poigravali

all of the top 21 places

sa glasanjem za prvih 21 mesta

to spell "mARBLECAKE. ALSO, THE GAME."

kako bi lista ispisala "mARBLECAKE. ALSO, THE GAME."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

The amount of time and effort that went into that

Količina truda i vremena koja je uložena u ovako nešto

is absolutely incredible.

je apsolutno neverovatna.

And "marble cake" is significant because

A "marble cake" je značajan zbog toga što

it is the channel that this group called Anonymous organized.

je to kanal koju organizuje grupa pod imenom "Anonimus".

Anonymous is this group of people

Anonimus je grupa ljudi

that protested, very famously,

koja je vršila proteste protiv sajentologije,

Scientology.

i to veoma popularno.

The story is,

Prema priči, sajentologija je

Scientology had this embarrassing video of Tom Cruise. It went up online.

posedovala jedan veoma sramotan snimak Toma Kruza, koji je nekako dospeo na internet.

They got it taken offline and managed to piss off part of the Internet.

Ubrzo su ga i skinuli, što je uspelo da razjari dobar deo interneta.

And so these people, over 7,000 people,

Tako da se oko 7 000 ljudi

less than one month later,

za samo manje od mesec dana

organized in a hundred cities around the globe and --

organizovalo u stotinu gradova širom planete i -

this is L.A. --

ovo je u Los Anđelesu -

protested the Church of Scientology,

protestovalo protiv sajentološke crkve.

and they have continued to do so,

Oni nastavljaju to da čine i dan danas,

now, two full years after the fact.

pune dve godine nakon incidenta.

They are still protesting.

I dalje protestuju.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So we've got this activist group that's this grassroots group

Dakle, postoji i ova grupa aktivista čiji su koreni

that's come out of the site.

na našem sajtu.

And last, I'm going to show you the example,

I za kraj, pokazaću vam još jedan primer.

the story of Dusty the cat.

Priču o mačoru Dastiju.

Dusty is the name that we've given to this cat.

Dasti je ime koje smo mu mi dali.

This young man

Jedan mladić

posted a video

je postavio video na Jutjub

of him abusing his cat on YouTube.

u kom zlostavlja svoju mačku.

And, you know, this didn't sit well with people,

I sada, pretpostavljate, to se ljudima nije dopalo,

and so there was this outpouring of support

što je dovelo do izliva podrške

for people to do something about this.

kako bi se učinilo nešto povodom ovoga.

So what they did is they -- I mean, they put CSI to shame here --

Ono što se dogodilo je - a što baca i samo "Mesto zločina" u senku -

the Internet detectives came out.

da su se pojavili internet detektivi.

They matched, they found his MySpace.

Upoređivali su slike, pronašli dečkov Majspejs nalog.

They took the YouTube video and they mashed everything in the video.

Uzeli su taj snimak sa Jutjuba i proučavali sve sa njega.

Within 24 hours,

U roku od 24 sata

they had his name,

imali su njegovo ime.

and within 48 hours, he was arrested.

Nakon 48 sati, bio je uhapšen.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

And so, what I think is really intriguing

Dakle, ono što je za mene zanimljivo

about a community like 4chan

kod zajednice kao što je 4chan

is just that it's this open place.

jeste da je to jedno otvoreno mesto.

As I said, it's raw, it's unfiltered.

Kao što sam već rekao, sirovo je, nefiltrirano.

And sites like it are kind of

I svi sajtovi nalik njemu

going the way of the dinosaur right now.

polako kreću stopama dinosaurusa.

They're endangered because we're moving

Ugroženi su jer se približavamo

towards social networking.

drštvenim mrežama.

We're moving towards persistent identity.

Idemo ka učvršćenom identitetu.

We're moving towards,

Idemo prema, u stvari,

you know, a lack of privacy, really.

nedostatku privatnosti.

We're sacrificing a lot of that, and I think in doing so,

Žrtvujemo mnogo toga i smatram da,

moving towards those things, we're losing something valuable.

krećući se ka takvim stvarima, gubimo nešto zaista vredno.

Thank you.

Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Chris Anderson: Thank you.

Kris Anderson: Hvala.

Got a couple questions for you.

Imam nekoliko pitanja za tebe.

But if I ask them, is the TED website going to go down?

Ali ako ih postavim, hoće li TED veb sajt pasti?

CP: You're lucky that this is not

KP: Imate sreće

being streamed to them live right now.

što im se ovo ne prikazuje uživo preko interneta.

CA: Well, you never know. Some of them --

KA: Pa, nikad ne znaš. Neki od njih -

we've got people in 75 countries out there watching.

imamo publiku u 75 zemalja koja trenutno gleda.

Don't tell.

Nemojte im reći.

But seriously,

Ali ozbiljno,

this issue on anonymity is --

pitanje anonimnosti je -

I mean, you made the case there.

mislim, izneo si slučaj.

But anonymity basically allows people to say anything,

Ali anonimnost, u principu, dozvoljava ljudima da kažu bilo šta,

all the rules gone.

nema pravila.

You've had to wrestle with issues like child pornography.

Suočavao si se sa problemima poput dečije porografije.

And I'm just curious whether you

Ono što me sada zanima je,

sometimes lie awake in the night

da li ponekad ležiš budan noću

worrying that you've opened Pandora's box.

brinući da si možda otvorio Pandorinu kutiju.

CP: Yes and no.

KP: I da i ne.

I mean, for as much good

Mislim, za sve dobro

that kind of comes out of this environment,

koje proizađe iz ove sredine,

there is plenty of bad.

ima i mnogo lošeg.

There are plenty of downsides.

Mnogo je loših strana.

But I think that the greater good

Ali smatram da se postižu neki viši ciljevi

is being served here by just allowing people --

tako što se ljudima dozvoljava -

there are very few places, now, where you can go

postoji veoma malo mesta danas na koja možete otići

and not have identity, to be completely anonymous

i nemati identitet, biti potpuno anonimni.

and say whatever you'd like.

Da možete reći šta god želite.

And saying whatever you like, I think, is powerful.

A po mom mišljenju, reći šta želite je moćno.

Doing whatever you like is now crossing a line.

Raditi šta želite je već prelaženje nekih granica,

But I think it's important to have these places.

ali smatram da je važno imati ovakva mesta.

When I get emails, people say, "Thank you for giving me this place,

Nekada mi stižu mejlovi u kojima ljudi kažu: "Hvala ti što si mi dao ovo mesto,

this outlet, where I can come after work

ovaj ventil, gde mogu da dođem nakon posla

and be myself."

i budem svoj."

CA: But words, saying things,

K.A: Ali reči, govoriti neke stvari

you know, can be constructive; it can be really damaging.

sa jedne strane može biti konstruktivno ali može mnogo i da ošteti.

And if you cut the link between what is said

I ako presečeš tu vezu između onoga što je izrečeno

and any attribution back to you,

i svake povezanosti sa onim ko to piše,

I mean, surely there are huge risks with that.

sigurno donosi velike rizike.

CP: There are, certainly.

K.P: Da, postoje rizici.

But --

Ali -

CA: Tell me about what -- I mean, I think you asked the board

K.A: Reci mi - Mislim da si pitao forum

what you might say at TED, right?

šta bi mogao da kažeš na TED-u danas, zar ne?

CP: Yeah, I posted a thread

K.P: Da, započeo sam diskusiju

on Sunday.

u nedelju.

And within 24 hours,

U roku od 24 sata

it had over 12,000 responses.

dobio sam 12 000 odgovora.

And the thing is,

Stvar je u tome

I didn't make it into that presentation

da to nisam stavio u prezentaciju

because I can't read to you anything that they said, more or less.

jer ne mogu da ti pročitam ništa od onoga što su oni napisali. Manje-više.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

99 percent of it is just,

99 procenata odgovora

would have been, you know, bleeped out.

bi, znaš, moralo biti cenzurisano.

But there were some good things that came out of that too.

Ali i nekoliko dobrih stvari je takođe proizašlo iz toga.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

Love and peace were mentioned.

Spomenuti su ljubav i mir.

CA: Love and peace were mentioned,

K.A: Ljubav i mir su spomenuti,

kind of with quote marks around them, right?

ali pod znacima navoda, verovatno?

CP: Cats and dogs were mentioned too.

K.P: Mačke i psi su takođe bili pomenuti.

CA: And that content is all off the board now.

K.A: I ti odgovori sada su skinuti sa foruma?

Right, it's gone? Or is it still up there?

Jesu li skinuti? Ili su ostali?

CP: I stuck that thread so it lasted a few days.

K.P: Diskusija je stajala tamo nekoliko dana.

It went up to about 16,000 posts,

Narasla je na oko 16 000 odgovora,

and now it has been taken off.

ali je sada skinuta.

CA: Okay, well.

K.P: Dobro.

Now, I'm not sure I would have necessarily recommended

Nisam potpuno siguran da bih baš svima sa TED-a

everyone at TED to go and check it out anyway.

preporučio da odu i pogledaju to.

Chris, you yourself? I mean, you're a figure of some intrigue.

A ti, Kris? Mislim, i ti si neka vrsta intrigantne ličnosti.

You've got this surprising

Imaš taj iznenađujući

semi-underground influence,

delimični andergraund uticaj,

but it's not making you a lot of money, yet.

koji ti, međutim, još uvek ne donosi zaradu.

What's the commercial picture here?

Kakva je ovde komercijalna zamisao?

CP: The commercial picture is that there really isn't

K.P: Pa, komercijalna zamisao je ta

much of one, I guess.

da je baš i nema, pretpostavljam.

The site has adult content on it.

Sajt ima sadržaj za odrasle.

I mean, obviously, it's got some very offensive, obscene content on it,

Očigledno ima veoma uvredljive, neprimerene stvari

just in terms of language alone.

i to samo kada je jezik u pitanju.

And when you've got that, you've pretty much sacrificed

I kada imate tako nešto na sajtu, već ste poprilično

any hope of making lots of money.

žrtvovali bilo kakve nade o velikoj zaradi.

CA: But you still live at home, right?

K.A: Još uvek živiš kod kuće, je l' da?

CP: I actually moved out recently.

K.P: U stvari, nedavno sam se odselio.

CA: That's very cool.

KA: To je veoma kul.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

CP: I got out of Mom's, and I'm back in school right now.

K.P: Iselio sam se iz mamine kuće i sada sam ponovo u školi.

CA: But what conversations did you or do you

K.A: Kakve razgovore si imao ili još uvek imaš

have with your mother about 4chan?

sa svojom majkom o 4chan-u?

CP: At first, very kind of pained,

K.P: U početku su bili nategnuti,

awkward conversations.

neprijatni.

The content is not dinner table conversation in the least.

Tema nikako nije prikladna za razgovor u toku porodičnog ručka.

But my parents -- I think part of why

Ali, moji roditelji - mislim da

they kind of are able to appreciate it

cene to što radim, delom zbog toga

is because they don't understand it.

što ne razumeju ništa u vezi sa time.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: And they were probably pleased to see you

K.A: Verovatno im je bilo drago da te vide

on top of the Time poll.

na vrhu "Tajmove" liste.

CP: Yeah. They still didn't know what to think of that though.

K.P: Da. Mada, još uvek ne znaju šta da misle o tome.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: And so, in 10 years' time,

K.A: Dakle, gde sebe zamišljaš

what do you picture yourself doing?

za deset godina?

CP: That's a good question.

K.P: Dobro pitanje.

As I said, I just went back to school,

Kao što rekoh, vratio sam se u školu

and I am considering

i trenutno razmišljam

majoring in urban studies

da diplomiram urbanizam,

and then going on to urban planning,

i onda pređem na urbanističko planiranje.

kind of taking whatever I've learned from online communities

Da uzmem ono što sam naučio iz internet zajednica

and trying to adapt that

i da pokušam da primenim to znanje

to a physical community.

na fizičku zajednicu.

CA: Chris, thank you. Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for coming to TED.

K.A: Hvala ti, Kris. Apsolutno fascinantno. Hvala ti što si došao na TED.