The case for anonymity online | Christopher "moot" Poole

483,695 views ・ 2010-06-02

TED


Please double-click on the English subtitles below to play the video.

00:17
Tom Green: That's a 4chan thing.
0
17260
2000
00:19
These kids on the Internet, they have this group of kids
1
19260
2000
00:21
and they like to say funny words
2
21260
2000
00:23
like "barrel roll."
3
23260
2000
00:25
It's a video game move from "Star Fox."
4
25260
2000
00:27
"Star Fox 20"? (Assistant: "Star Fox 64.")
5
27260
3000
00:30
Tom Green: Yeah. And they've been dogging me for a year.
6
30260
2000
00:32
I got to tell you, it's driving me nuts, actually.
7
32260
2000
00:34
Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I scream,
8
34260
3000
00:37
"4chan!"
9
37260
3000
00:43
Christopher Poole: When I was 15,
10
43260
2000
00:45
I found this website called Futaba Channel.
11
45260
3000
00:48
And it was a Japanese forum and imageboard.
12
48260
3000
00:52
That format of forum, at that time,
13
52260
3000
00:55
was not well-known outside of Japan.
14
55260
2000
00:57
And so what I did is I took it, I translated it into English,
15
57260
3000
01:00
and I stuck it up for my friends to use.
16
60260
3000
01:03
Now, six and a half years later,
17
63260
2000
01:05
over seven million people are using it,
18
65260
2000
01:07
contributing over 700,000 posts per day.
19
67260
3000
01:10
And we've gone from one board
20
70260
2000
01:12
to 48 boards.
21
72260
3000
01:15
This is what it looks like.
22
75260
2000
01:17
So, what's unique about the site
23
77260
2000
01:19
is that it's anonymous,
24
79260
2000
01:21
and it has no memory.
25
81260
2000
01:23
There's no archive, there are no barriers, there's no registration.
26
83260
3000
01:26
These things that we're used to with forums
27
86260
2000
01:28
don't exist on 4chan.
28
88260
2000
01:30
And that's led to this
29
90260
2000
01:32
discussion that's completely raw, completely unfiltered.
30
92260
3000
01:37
What the site's known for,
31
97260
2000
01:39
because it has this environment,
32
99260
2000
01:41
is it's fostered the creation of a lot of
33
101260
2000
01:43
Internet phenomena, viral videos and whatnot, known as "memes."
34
103260
3000
01:46
Two of the largest memes that have come out of this site
35
106260
2000
01:48
some of you might be familiar with are these LOLcats --
36
108260
3000
01:51
just silly pictures of cats with text.
37
111260
3000
01:54
And this resonates with millions of people, apparently,
38
114260
2000
01:56
because there are tens of thousands of these,
39
116260
2000
01:58
and there is a whole blogging empire now
40
118260
2000
02:00
dedicated to pictures like these.
41
120260
3000
02:03
And Rick Astley's kind of rebirth
42
123260
3000
02:06
these past two years ...
43
126260
2000
02:08
Rickroll was this bait and switch,
44
128260
2000
02:10
really simple, classic bait and switch.
45
130260
2000
02:12
Somebody says they're linking to something interesting,
46
132260
3000
02:15
and you get an '80s pop song. That's all it was.
47
135260
3000
02:18
And it got big enough to the point where
48
138260
2000
02:20
there was a float last year at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade,
49
140260
3000
02:23
and Rick Astley pops out, and rickrolls
50
143260
2000
02:25
millions of people on television.
51
145260
2000
02:27
(Laughter)
52
147260
2000
02:30
There are thousands of memes that come out of the site.
53
150260
2000
02:32
There are a handful that have escaped into the mainstream,
54
152260
2000
02:34
the ones I've just shown you,
55
154260
2000
02:36
but every day, every month,
56
156260
3000
02:39
people are producing thousands of these.
57
159260
3000
02:43
So does a site like this have rules?
58
163260
2000
02:45
We do; they're the codified rules that I've come up with,
59
165260
3000
02:48
which are more-or-less ignored by the community.
60
168260
3000
02:51
And so they've come up with their own set of rules,
61
171260
2000
02:53
the "Rules of the Internet."
62
173260
2000
02:55
And so there are three that I want to show you specifically.
63
175260
3000
02:58
Rule one is you don't talk about /b/.
64
178260
3000
03:01
Two is you do not talk about /b/.
65
181260
3000
03:04
And this one's kind of interesting:
66
184260
2000
03:06
"If it exists, there is porn of it. No exceptions."
67
186260
3000
03:09
(Laughter)
68
189260
2000
03:11
And I will spare you that slide.
69
191260
2000
03:13
I assure you, it is very true.
70
193260
3000
03:16
/b/ is the first board we started with,
71
196260
3000
03:19
and it is, in many ways,
72
199260
2000
03:21
the beating heart of the website.
73
201260
2000
03:23
It is where a third of all the traffic is going.
74
203260
3000
03:26
And /b/ is known for,
75
206260
2000
03:28
more than anything,
76
208260
2000
03:30
not just the memes they've created, but the exploits.
77
210260
3000
03:33
And Chris just touched on one of those a second ago,
78
213260
3000
03:36
and that was the Time 100 poll.
79
216260
3000
03:39
So somebody at Time, at the magazine,
80
219260
2000
03:41
thought it would be fun to nominate me
81
221260
2000
03:43
for this thing they did last year.
82
223260
3000
03:46
And so they placed me on it,
83
226260
2000
03:48
and the Internet got wind of it. My community
84
228260
3000
03:51
decided they wanted me to win it.
85
231260
3000
03:54
I didn't instruct them to do it; they just decided that that's what they wanted.
86
234260
3000
03:57
And so, you know, 390 percent approval rating ain't so bad.
87
237260
3000
04:00
(Laughter)
88
240260
2000
04:02
So they broke that poll.
89
242260
3000
04:05
And I ended up on top.
90
245260
2000
04:07
I ended up at this really fancy party.
91
247260
3000
04:10
But that's not what's interesting about this.
92
250260
3000
04:13
It's that they weren't putting me at the top of this list;
93
253260
3000
04:16
they were actually --
94
256260
2000
04:18
it got so sophisticated to the point where they gamed
95
258260
2000
04:20
all of the top 21 places
96
260260
3000
04:23
to spell "mARBLECAKE. ALSO, THE GAME."
97
263260
3000
04:26
(Laughter)
98
266260
3000
04:29
The amount of time and effort that went into that
99
269260
3000
04:32
is absolutely incredible.
100
272260
2000
04:34
And "marble cake" is significant because
101
274260
2000
04:36
it is the channel that this group called Anonymous organized.
102
276260
3000
04:39
Anonymous is this group of people
103
279260
3000
04:42
that protested, very famously,
104
282260
3000
04:45
Scientology.
105
285260
2000
04:47
The story is,
106
287260
2000
04:49
Scientology had this embarrassing video of Tom Cruise. It went up online.
107
289260
3000
04:52
They got it taken offline and managed to piss off part of the Internet.
108
292260
3000
04:55
And so these people, over 7,000 people,
109
295260
3000
04:58
less than one month later,
110
298260
2000
05:00
organized in a hundred cities around the globe and --
111
300260
2000
05:02
this is L.A. --
112
302260
2000
05:04
protested the Church of Scientology,
113
304260
3000
05:07
and they have continued to do so,
114
307260
2000
05:09
now, two full years after the fact.
115
309260
2000
05:11
They are still protesting.
116
311260
2000
05:13
(Laughter)
117
313260
7000
05:20
So we've got this activist group that's this grassroots group
118
320260
3000
05:23
that's come out of the site.
119
323260
2000
05:25
And last, I'm going to show you the example,
120
325260
2000
05:27
the story of Dusty the cat.
121
327260
2000
05:29
Dusty is the name that we've given to this cat.
122
329260
3000
05:32
This young man
123
332260
2000
05:34
posted a video
124
334260
2000
05:36
of him abusing his cat on YouTube.
125
336260
3000
05:39
And, you know, this didn't sit well with people,
126
339260
3000
05:42
and so there was this outpouring of support
127
342260
3000
05:46
for people to do something about this.
128
346260
3000
05:50
So what they did is they -- I mean, they put CSI to shame here --
129
350260
3000
05:53
the Internet detectives came out.
130
353260
2000
05:55
They matched, they found his MySpace.
131
355260
3000
05:58
They took the YouTube video and they mashed everything in the video.
132
358260
3000
06:01
Within 24 hours,
133
361260
2000
06:03
they had his name,
134
363260
2000
06:05
and within 48 hours, he was arrested.
135
365260
3000
06:09
(Applause)
136
369260
6000
06:16
And so, what I think is really intriguing
137
376260
2000
06:18
about a community like 4chan
138
378260
2000
06:20
is just that it's this open place.
139
380260
2000
06:22
As I said, it's raw, it's unfiltered.
140
382260
2000
06:24
And sites like it are kind of
141
384260
2000
06:26
going the way of the dinosaur right now.
142
386260
2000
06:28
They're endangered because we're moving
143
388260
2000
06:30
towards social networking.
144
390260
2000
06:32
We're moving towards persistent identity.
145
392260
2000
06:34
We're moving towards,
146
394260
3000
06:37
you know, a lack of privacy, really.
147
397260
2000
06:39
We're sacrificing a lot of that, and I think in doing so,
148
399260
3000
06:42
moving towards those things, we're losing something valuable.
149
402260
3000
06:45
Thank you.
150
405260
2000
06:47
(Applause)
151
407260
8000
06:55
Chris Anderson: Thank you.
152
415260
2000
06:57
Got a couple questions for you.
153
417260
2000
06:59
But if I ask them, is the TED website going to go down?
154
419260
3000
07:02
CP: You're lucky that this is not
155
422260
2000
07:04
being streamed to them live right now.
156
424260
2000
07:06
CA: Well, you never know. Some of them --
157
426260
2000
07:08
we've got people in 75 countries out there watching.
158
428260
3000
07:11
Don't tell.
159
431260
2000
07:14
But seriously,
160
434260
2000
07:16
this issue on anonymity is --
161
436260
2000
07:18
I mean, you made the case there.
162
438260
2000
07:20
But anonymity basically allows people to say anything,
163
440260
3000
07:23
all the rules gone.
164
443260
2000
07:25
You've had to wrestle with issues like child pornography.
165
445260
2000
07:27
And I'm just curious whether you
166
447260
3000
07:30
sometimes lie awake in the night
167
450260
2000
07:32
worrying that you've opened Pandora's box.
168
452260
3000
07:36
CP: Yes and no.
169
456260
2000
07:38
I mean, for as much good
170
458260
2000
07:40
that kind of comes out of this environment,
171
460260
2000
07:42
there is plenty of bad.
172
462260
2000
07:44
There are plenty of downsides.
173
464260
2000
07:46
But I think that the greater good
174
466260
3000
07:49
is being served here by just allowing people --
175
469260
2000
07:51
there are very few places, now, where you can go
176
471260
3000
07:54
and not have identity, to be completely anonymous
177
474260
2000
07:56
and say whatever you'd like.
178
476260
2000
07:58
And saying whatever you like, I think, is powerful.
179
478260
3000
08:01
Doing whatever you like is now crossing a line.
180
481260
2000
08:03
But I think it's important to have these places.
181
483260
3000
08:06
When I get emails, people say, "Thank you for giving me this place,
182
486260
3000
08:09
this outlet, where I can come after work
183
489260
2000
08:11
and be myself."
184
491260
2000
08:13
CA: But words, saying things,
185
493260
3000
08:17
you know, can be constructive; it can be really damaging.
186
497260
3000
08:20
And if you cut the link between what is said
187
500260
3000
08:23
and any attribution back to you,
188
503260
2000
08:25
I mean, surely there are huge risks with that.
189
505260
3000
08:28
CP: There are, certainly.
190
508260
2000
08:30
But --
191
510260
2000
08:32
CA: Tell me about what -- I mean, I think you asked the board
192
512260
3000
08:35
what you might say at TED, right?
193
515260
2000
08:37
CP: Yeah, I posted a thread
194
517260
2000
08:39
on Sunday.
195
519260
2000
08:41
And within 24 hours,
196
521260
2000
08:43
it had over 12,000 responses.
197
523260
2000
08:45
And the thing is,
198
525260
3000
08:48
I didn't make it into that presentation
199
528260
2000
08:50
because I can't read to you anything that they said, more or less.
200
530260
2000
08:52
(Laughter)
201
532260
2000
08:54
99 percent of it is just,
202
534260
3000
08:57
would have been, you know, bleeped out.
203
537260
2000
08:59
But there were some good things that came out of that too.
204
539260
2000
09:01
(Laughter)
205
541260
2000
09:03
Love and peace were mentioned.
206
543260
2000
09:05
CA: Love and peace were mentioned,
207
545260
2000
09:07
kind of with quote marks around them, right?
208
547260
2000
09:09
CP: Cats and dogs were mentioned too.
209
549260
2000
09:11
CA: And that content is all off the board now.
210
551260
3000
09:14
Right, it's gone? Or is it still up there?
211
554260
2000
09:16
CP: I stuck that thread so it lasted a few days.
212
556260
2000
09:18
It went up to about 16,000 posts,
213
558260
2000
09:20
and now it has been taken off.
214
560260
3000
09:23
CA: Okay, well.
215
563260
2000
09:27
Now, I'm not sure I would have necessarily recommended
216
567260
2000
09:29
everyone at TED to go and check it out anyway.
217
569260
3000
09:33
Chris, you yourself? I mean, you're a figure of some intrigue.
218
573260
3000
09:36
You've got this surprising
219
576260
2000
09:38
semi-underground influence,
220
578260
3000
09:41
but it's not making you a lot of money, yet.
221
581260
3000
09:45
What's the commercial picture here?
222
585260
3000
09:48
CP: The commercial picture is that there really isn't
223
588260
2000
09:50
much of one, I guess.
224
590260
2000
09:52
The site has adult content on it.
225
592260
3000
09:55
I mean, obviously, it's got some very offensive, obscene content on it,
226
595260
2000
09:57
just in terms of language alone.
227
597260
2000
09:59
And when you've got that, you've pretty much sacrificed
228
599260
3000
10:02
any hope of making lots of money.
229
602260
3000
10:05
CA: But you still live at home, right?
230
605260
3000
10:08
CP: I actually moved out recently.
231
608260
2000
10:10
CA: That's very cool.
232
610260
2000
10:12
(Applause)
233
612260
2000
10:14
CP: I got out of Mom's, and I'm back in school right now.
234
614260
3000
10:17
CA: But what conversations did you or do you
235
617260
2000
10:19
have with your mother about 4chan?
236
619260
3000
10:22
CP: At first, very kind of pained,
237
622260
2000
10:24
awkward conversations.
238
624260
2000
10:26
The content is not dinner table conversation in the least.
239
626260
3000
10:30
But my parents -- I think part of why
240
630260
3000
10:33
they kind of are able to appreciate it
241
633260
3000
10:36
is because they don't understand it.
242
636260
2000
10:38
(Laughter)
243
638260
3000
10:41
CA: And they were probably pleased to see you
244
641260
3000
10:44
on top of the Time poll.
245
644260
2000
10:46
CP: Yeah. They still didn't know what to think of that though.
246
646260
3000
10:49
(Laughter)
247
649260
2000
10:51
CA: And so, in 10 years' time,
248
651260
2000
10:53
what do you picture yourself doing?
249
653260
3000
10:56
CP: That's a good question.
250
656260
2000
10:58
As I said, I just went back to school,
251
658260
2000
11:00
and I am considering
252
660260
2000
11:02
majoring in urban studies
253
662260
2000
11:04
and then going on to urban planning,
254
664260
2000
11:06
kind of taking whatever I've learned from online communities
255
666260
3000
11:09
and trying to adapt that
256
669260
2000
11:11
to a physical community.
257
671260
3000
11:14
CA: Chris, thank you. Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for coming to TED.
258
674260
3000
About this website

This site will introduce you to YouTube videos that are useful for learning English. You will see English lessons taught by top-notch teachers from around the world. Double-click on the English subtitles displayed on each video page to play the video from there. The subtitles scroll in sync with the video playback. If you have any comments or requests, please contact us using this contact form.

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7