The case for anonymity online | Christopher "moot" Poole

483,864 views ・ 2010-06-02

TED


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Prevoditelj: Davorin Jelačić Recezent: Tilen Pigac - EFZG
00:17
Tom Green: That's a 4chan thing.
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Tom Green: To je 4chan stvar.
00:19
These kids on the Internet, they have this group of kids
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Ta djeca na Internetu, imate tu skupinu djece
00:21
and they like to say funny words
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i oni vole koristiti čudne riječi
00:23
like "barrel roll."
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poput „kolut s cijevi“.
00:25
It's a video game move from "Star Fox."
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To je potez iz video igre "Star Fox".
00:27
"Star Fox 20"? (Assistant: "Star Fox 64.")
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"Star Fox 20"? (Pomoćnik: "Star Fox 64".)
00:30
Tom Green: Yeah. And they've been dogging me for a year.
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Tom Green: Da. I oni me proganjaju već godinu dana.
00:32
I got to tell you, it's driving me nuts, actually.
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Moram vam reći da me to zapravo izluđuje.
00:34
Sometimes I wake up in the middle of the night and I scream,
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Katkada se probudim usred noći i vrištim,
00:37
"4chan!"
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"4chan!"
00:43
Christopher Poole: When I was 15,
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Christopher Poole: Kad sam imao 15 godina,
00:45
I found this website called Futaba Channel.
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pronašao sam Internet stranice Futaba Channel.
00:48
And it was a Japanese forum and imageboard.
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Bio je to japanski forum i panel sa slikama.
00:52
That format of forum, at that time,
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Takav oblik foruma, u to doba,
00:55
was not well-known outside of Japan.
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nije bio dobro poznat izvan Japana.
00:57
And so what I did is I took it, I translated it into English,
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Pa sam ga ja uzeo, preveo ga na engleski,
01:00
and I stuck it up for my friends to use.
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i postavio ga da ga moji prijatelji koriste.
01:03
Now, six and a half years later,
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Sada, šest i pol godina kasnije,
01:05
over seven million people are using it,
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preko 7 milijuna ljudi ga koristi,
01:07
contributing over 700,000 posts per day.
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pišući preko 700.000 postova dnevno.
01:10
And we've gone from one board
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Razvili smo se od jednog panela
01:12
to 48 boards.
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do 48 panela.
01:15
This is what it looks like.
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Evo kako to izgleda.
01:17
So, what's unique about the site
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Ono što je jedinstveno kod ovih stranica
01:19
is that it's anonymous,
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je to da su anonimne,
01:21
and it has no memory.
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i nemaju pamćenje.
01:23
There's no archive, there are no barriers, there's no registration.
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Ne postoji arhiva. Nema ograničenja. Nema registracije.
01:26
These things that we're used to with forums
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Sve to na što smo navikli kod foruma
01:28
don't exist on 4chan.
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ne postoji na stranicama 4chan.
01:30
And that's led to this
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I to rezultira diskusijama
01:32
discussion that's completely raw, completely unfiltered.
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koje su potpuno sirove, potpuno nefiltrirane.
01:37
What the site's known for,
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Stranica je poznata po tome,
01:39
because it has this environment,
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uslijed takvog okruženja,
01:41
is it's fostered the creation of a lot of
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da je odnjegovala nastanak mnogih
01:43
Internet phenomena, viral videos and whatnot, known as "memes."
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Internet fenomena, virusnih videa i drugog, poznatog kao „memi“.
01:46
Two of the largest memes that have come out of this site
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Dva najveća mema koja su proizišla s ovih stranica -
01:48
some of you might be familiar with are these LOLcats --
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neki od vas su možda upoznati s LOLmacama (LOLcats) --
01:51
just silly pictures of cats with text.
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luckastih slika mačaka s tekstom.
01:54
And this resonates with millions of people, apparently,
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I to dira neku žicu u ljudima, očito,
01:56
because there are tens of thousands of these,
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jer je nastalo na desetke tisuća tih mačaka,
01:58
and there is a whole blogging empire now
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i čitavo blogersko carstvo
02:00
dedicated to pictures like these.
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posvećeno slikama poput ovih.
02:03
And Rick Astley's kind of rebirth
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A i ponovno rođenje Ricka Astleya
02:06
these past two years ...
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u zadnje dvije godine ...
02:08
Rickroll was this bait and switch,
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Rickroll je bio taj mamac i zamka,
02:10
really simple, classic bait and switch.
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vrlo jednostavno, klasičan mamac i zamka.
02:12
Somebody says they're linking to something interesting,
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Netko kaže da pravi poveznicu na nešto zanimljivo,
02:15
and you get an '80s pop song. That's all it was.
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i dobijete pop pjesmu iz '80-tih. Samo to.
02:18
And it got big enough to the point where
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I to je postalo toliko veliko
02:20
there was a float last year at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade,
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da je na lanjskoj Macyjevoj paradi za Dan zahvalnosti postojala splav,
02:23
and Rick Astley pops out, and rickrolls
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i iskače Rick Astley i rickrolla
02:25
millions of people on television.
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na televiziji milijune ljudi.
02:27
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
02:30
There are thousands of memes that come out of the site.
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Na tisuće mema nastaju na stranicama.
02:32
There are a handful that have escaped into the mainstream,
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Neki su pobjegli u glavnu struju,
02:34
the ones I've just shown you,
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ti koje sam vam upravo pokazao,
02:36
but every day, every month,
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no svakoga dana, svakoga mjeseca,
02:39
people are producing thousands of these.
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ljudi stvaraju tisuće drugih.
02:43
So does a site like this have rules?
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No, imaju li stranice poput ovih neka pravila?
02:45
We do; they're the codified rules that I've come up with,
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Imamo; to su kodificirana pravila koja sam izmislio,
02:48
which are more-or-less ignored by the community.
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koja zajednica više-manje ignorira.
02:51
And so they've come up with their own set of rules,
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Pa su izmislili svoja vlastita pravila,
02:53
the "Rules of the Internet."
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„Pravila Interneta“.
02:55
And so there are three that I want to show you specifically.
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Postoje tri pravila koja vam želim posebno pokazati.
02:58
Rule one is you don't talk about /b/.
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Prvo pravilo je da ne pričate o /b/.
03:01
Two is you do not talk about /b/.
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Drugo je da ne pričate o /b/.
03:04
And this one's kind of interesting:
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A ovo je zanimljivo:
03:06
"If it exists, there is porn of it. No exceptions."
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"Ako postoji, netko je napravio pornić od toga. Bez izuzetaka".
03:09
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
03:11
And I will spare you that slide.
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I poštedjet ću vas toga slajda.
03:13
I assure you, it is very true.
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Uvjeravam vas, to je sasvim točno.
03:16
/b/ is the first board we started with,
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/b/ je prvi panel s kojim smo započeli,
03:19
and it is, in many ways,
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i on je, na mnogo načina,
03:21
the beating heart of the website.
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pulsirajuće srce sajta.
03:23
It is where a third of all the traffic is going.
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Ondje ide trećina prometa.
03:26
And /b/ is known for,
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A /b/ je poznat po,
03:28
more than anything,
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više od ičega drugoga,
03:30
not just the memes they've created, but the exploits.
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ne samo memima koje je stvorio, već i po upadima na stranice.
03:33
And Chris just touched on one of those a second ago,
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Chris je maločas naveo jedan od tih,
03:36
and that was the Time 100 poll.
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anketu Time-a 100.
03:39
So somebody at Time, at the magazine,
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Netko je u časopisu Time,
03:41
thought it would be fun to nominate me
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pomislio da bi bilo zgodno da me nominiraju
03:43
for this thing they did last year.
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za taj izbor prošle godine.
03:46
And so they placed me on it,
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Pa su me stavili na popis,
03:48
and the Internet got wind of it. My community
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i Internet je to doznao. Moja zajednica
03:51
decided they wanted me to win it.
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je odlučila da žele da ja pobijedim.
03:54
I didn't instruct them to do it; they just decided that that's what they wanted.
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Nisam ih uputio da to čine; jednostavno su zaključili da to žele.
03:57
And so, you know, 390 percent approval rating ain't so bad.
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I tako, znate, podrška od 390 posto i nije tako loša.
04:00
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:02
So they broke that poll.
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Tako su skršili tu anketu.
04:05
And I ended up on top.
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A ja sam završio na vrhu.
04:07
I ended up at this really fancy party.
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Završio sam na tom stvarno šminkerskom tulumu.
04:10
But that's not what's interesting about this.
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Ali nije to zanimljivo ovdje.
04:13
It's that they weren't putting me at the top of this list;
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Nisu oni mene stavili na vrh popisa;
04:16
they were actually --
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oni su zapravo --
04:18
it got so sophisticated to the point where they gamed
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postalo je toliko sofisticirano da su aranžirali
04:20
all of the top 21 places
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svih 21 prvih mjesta
04:23
to spell "mARBLECAKE. ALSO, THE GAME."
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da ispišu "mARBLECAKE. ALSO, THE GAME."
04:26
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
04:29
The amount of time and effort that went into that
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Količina vremena i napora uloženog u to
04:32
is absolutely incredible.
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je apsolutno nevjerojatna.
04:34
And "marble cake" is significant because
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A "marble cake" (mramorni kolač) je važan jer je to
04:36
it is the channel that this group called Anonymous organized.
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kanal kojeg je uspostavila skupina Anonymous.
04:39
Anonymous is this group of people
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Anonymous su skupina ljudi
04:42
that protested, very famously,
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koji su prosvjedovali protiv, slavno,
04:45
Scientology.
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Scijentologije.
04:47
The story is,
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Priča glasi da je
04:49
Scientology had this embarrassing video of Tom Cruise. It went up online.
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Scijentologija imala taj neugodni snimak Toma Cruisea. Završio je na mreži.
04:52
They got it taken offline and managed to piss off part of the Internet.
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Oni su ga skinuli s Interneta i uspjeli naljutiti dio Interneta.
04:55
And so these people, over 7,000 people,
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I tako su se ti ljudi, preko 7.000 ljudi,
04:58
less than one month later,
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manje od mjesec dana kasnije,
05:00
organized in a hundred cities around the globe and --
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organizirali u stotinu gradova širom kugle i --
05:02
this is L.A. --
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ovo je Los Angeles --
05:04
protested the Church of Scientology,
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prosvjedovali protiv Scijentološke crkve,
05:07
and they have continued to do so,
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i nastavili su to činiti,
05:09
now, two full years after the fact.
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sada, pune dvije godine nakon toga.
05:11
They are still protesting.
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Protestiraju i dalje.
05:13
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
05:20
So we've got this activist group that's this grassroots group
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Tako da imamo tu aktivističku skupinu sastavljenu od malih ljudi
05:23
that's come out of the site.
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koja je nastala na stranicama.
05:25
And last, I'm going to show you the example,
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A pokazat ću vam i primjer,
05:27
the story of Dusty the cat.
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priču o mačku Dustyju.
05:29
Dusty is the name that we've given to this cat.
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Dusty je ime koje smo dali ovom mačku.
05:32
This young man
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Ovaj je mladić
05:34
posted a video
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postavio video
05:36
of him abusing his cat on YouTube.
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na YouTube u kojem zlostavlja svog mačka.
05:39
And, you know, this didn't sit well with people,
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I, znate, to ljudima baš nije „sjelo“,
05:42
and so there was this outpouring of support
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i zato je provalila potpora
05:46
for people to do something about this.
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da se nešto učini u vezi toga.
05:50
So what they did is they -- I mean, they put CSI to shame here --
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Ono što su učinili – mislim osramotili su one iz C.S.I. --
05:53
the Internet detectives came out.
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Internet detektivi su izronili.
05:55
They matched, they found his MySpace.
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Uspoređivali su, otkrili njegov MySpace.
05:58
They took the YouTube video and they mashed everything in the video.
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Uzeli su YouTube video i ubacili sve u video.
06:01
Within 24 hours,
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U roku od 24 sata,
06:03
they had his name,
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saznali su njegovo ime.
06:05
and within 48 hours, he was arrested.
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I, u roku od 48 sati, bio je uhićen.
06:09
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
06:16
And so, what I think is really intriguing
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I tako, ono što mislim da je zaista zanimljivo
06:18
about a community like 4chan
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kod zajednice kakva je 4chan
06:20
is just that it's this open place.
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je to da je riječ o otvorenom mjestu.
06:22
As I said, it's raw, it's unfiltered.
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Kao što rekoh, sirovo i nefiltrirano.
06:24
And sites like it are kind of
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A takve stranice nekako
06:26
going the way of the dinosaur right now.
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kao da upravo idu putem dinosaura.
06:28
They're endangered because we're moving
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U opasnosti su jer se krećemo
06:30
towards social networking.
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prema društvenim mrežama.
06:32
We're moving towards persistent identity.
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Krećemo se prema trajnom identitetu.
06:34
We're moving towards,
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Mičemo se prema,
06:37
you know, a lack of privacy, really.
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znate, nedostatku privatnosti, zapravo.
06:39
We're sacrificing a lot of that, and I think in doing so,
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Žrtvujemo mnogo privatnosti, i čineći tako,
06:42
moving towards those things, we're losing something valuable.
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idući prema tome, mislim da gubimo nešto vrijedno.
06:45
Thank you.
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Hvala vam.
06:47
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
06:55
Chris Anderson: Thank you.
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Chris Anderson: Hvala vam.
06:57
Got a couple questions for you.
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Imam par pitanja za vas.
06:59
But if I ask them, is the TED website going to go down?
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Ali ako pitam, hoće li TED stranice biti srušene?
07:02
CP: You're lucky that this is not
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CP: Sretni ste da se ovo
07:04
being streamed to them live right now.
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ne prenosi njima uživo.
07:06
CA: Well, you never know. Some of them --
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CA: No, nikad ne znate. Neki od njih --
07:08
we've got people in 75 countries out there watching.
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gledaju nas ljudi iz 75 zemalja.
07:11
Don't tell.
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Nemojte im reći.
07:14
But seriously,
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Ali ozbiljno,
07:16
this issue on anonymity is --
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ovo pitanje anonimnosti je --
07:18
I mean, you made the case there.
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mislim, izložili ste argumente ovdje.
07:20
But anonymity basically allows people to say anything,
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Ali anonimnost omogućava ljudima da kažu što god hoće.
07:23
all the rules gone.
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Nema nikakvih pravila.
07:25
You've had to wrestle with issues like child pornography.
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Morate se boriti sa stvarima poput dječje pornografije.
07:27
And I'm just curious whether you
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I zanima me da li
07:30
sometimes lie awake in the night
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nekad ležite noću budni
07:32
worrying that you've opened Pandora's box.
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brinući se da ste otvorili Pandorinu kutiju.
07:36
CP: Yes and no.
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CP: Da i ne.
07:38
I mean, for as much good
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Koliko god dobra
07:40
that kind of comes out of this environment,
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proizlazi iz tog okružja,
07:42
there is plenty of bad.
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ima i puno toga lošeg.
07:44
There are plenty of downsides.
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Ima puno nedostataka.
07:46
But I think that the greater good
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Ali mislim da postižemo veće dobro
07:49
is being served here by just allowing people --
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time što jednostavno dopuštamo ljudima --
07:51
there are very few places, now, where you can go
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ima vrlo malo mjesta gdje sada možete otići
07:54
and not have identity, to be completely anonymous
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i nemati identitet, biti potpuno anonimni
07:56
and say whatever you'd like.
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i reći što god želite.
07:58
And saying whatever you like, I think, is powerful.
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A govoriti što želite, mislim da je moćno.
08:01
Doing whatever you like is now crossing a line.
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Ono što prelazi granicu je raditi što god hoćemo.
08:03
But I think it's important to have these places.
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Ali mislim da je važno da imamo takva mjesta.
08:06
When I get emails, people say, "Thank you for giving me this place,
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Kad primam e-mailove, ljudi kažu: „Hvala na ovom mjestu,
08:09
this outlet, where I can come after work
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ovom kutku gdje mogu doći nakon posla
08:11
and be myself."
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i biti svoj".
08:13
CA: But words, saying things,
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CA: Ali riječi, govorenje,
08:17
you know, can be constructive; it can be really damaging.
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može biti konstruktivno; može biti i razorno.
08:20
And if you cut the link between what is said
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I ako uklonite vezu između onoga što je rečeno
08:23
and any attribution back to you,
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i vas koji ste to rekli,
08:25
I mean, surely there are huge risks with that.
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mislim, sigurno tu postoje veliki rizici.
08:28
CP: There are, certainly.
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CP: Postoje, svakako.
08:30
But --
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Ali --
08:32
CA: Tell me about what -- I mean, I think you asked the board
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CA: Recite mi što -- mislim, pitali ste svoj panel
08:35
what you might say at TED, right?
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o čemu da pričate na TED-u, zar ne.
08:37
CP: Yeah, I posted a thread
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CP: Da, postavio sam diskusiju
08:39
on Sunday.
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u nedjelju.
08:41
And within 24 hours,
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U roku od 24 sata,
08:43
it had over 12,000 responses.
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dobio sam preko 12.000 odgovora.
08:45
And the thing is,
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Stvar je u tome,
08:48
I didn't make it into that presentation
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nisam vam održao tu prezentaciju
08:50
because I can't read to you anything that they said, more or less.
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jer više-manje vam ne mogu pročitati ništa od onoga što su rekli.
08:52
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
08:54
99 percent of it is just,
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99 posto toga je samo,
08:57
would have been, you know, bleeped out.
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bilo bi, znate, zvučno cenzurirano.
08:59
But there were some good things that came out of that too.
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Ali i neke su dobre stvari proizišle iz toga.
09:01
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
09:03
Love and peace were mentioned.
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Spomenuti su ljubav i mir.
09:05
CA: Love and peace were mentioned,
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CA: Ljubav i mir,
09:07
kind of with quote marks around them, right?
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kao u navodnicima, zar ne?
09:09
CP: Cats and dogs were mentioned too.
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CP: Mačke i psi su također spomenuti.
09:11
CA: And that content is all off the board now.
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CA: I taj sadržaj je sada maknut s panela.
09:14
Right, it's gone? Or is it still up there?
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Je li tako? Ili je još gore?
09:16
CP: I stuck that thread so it lasted a few days.
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CP: Postavio sam tu diskusiju tako da traje nekoliko dana.
09:18
It went up to about 16,000 posts,
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Dosegnula je oko 16.000 postova,
09:20
and now it has been taken off.
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i sada je maknuta.
09:23
CA: Okay, well.
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CA: Dobro.
09:27
Now, I'm not sure I would have necessarily recommended
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Nisam siguran da bih nužno preporučio
09:29
everyone at TED to go and check it out anyway.
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svakome na TED-u da ode i ipak to provjeri.
09:33
Chris, you yourself? I mean, you're a figure of some intrigue.
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Chris, a vi? Mislim, vi ste osoba određene tajanstvenosti.
09:36
You've got this surprising
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Imate taj iznenađujući
09:38
semi-underground influence,
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utjecaj na polu-podzemlje,
09:41
but it's not making you a lot of money, yet.
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ali od toga ne zarađujete puno, još.
09:45
What's the commercial picture here?
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Koja je komercijalna ideja ovdje?
09:48
CP: The commercial picture is that there really isn't
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CP: Komercijalna ideja je ta da i nema
09:50
much of one, I guess.
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puno komercijalne ideje.
09:52
The site has adult content on it.
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Stranica ima i sadržaj za odrasle.
09:55
I mean, obviously, it's got some very offensive, obscene content on it,
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Mislim, očito, ima vrlo opscenog sadržaja gore,
09:57
just in terms of language alone.
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čak i kad govorimo samo o jeziku.
09:59
And when you've got that, you've pretty much sacrificed
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A kad to imate, uglavnom ste žrtvovali
10:02
any hope of making lots of money.
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svaku nadu da ćete puno zaraditi.
10:05
CA: But you still live at home, right?
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CA: Još uvijek živite kod kuće, zar ne?
10:08
CP: I actually moved out recently.
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CP: Nedavno sam se iselio.
10:10
CA: That's very cool.
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CA: To je dobro.
10:12
(Applause)
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(Pljesak)
10:14
CP: I got out of Mom's, and I'm back in school right now.
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CP: Odselio sam od mame i vratio se u školu.
10:17
CA: But what conversations did you or do you
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CA: Kakve razgovore vodiš ili si vodio
10:19
have with your mother about 4chan?
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s mamom o stranicama 4chan?
10:22
CP: At first, very kind of pained,
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CP: Isprva, mučne,
10:24
awkward conversations.
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neugodne razgovore.
10:26
The content is not dinner table conversation in the least.
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Sadržaj ni najmanje nije za razgovor za stolom.
10:30
But my parents -- I think part of why
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Ali moji roditelji -- mislim da je dio razloga
10:33
they kind of are able to appreciate it
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zašto oni to mogu cijeniti
10:36
is because they don't understand it.
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taj što oni to ne razumiju.
10:38
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
10:41
CA: And they were probably pleased to see you
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CA: A vjerojatno su bili zadovoljni
10:44
on top of the Time poll.
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da te vide na vrhu Timeove ankete.
10:46
CP: Yeah. They still didn't know what to think of that though.
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CP: Da. Ali još uvijek ne znaju što da o tome misle.
10:49
(Laughter)
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(Smijeh)
10:51
CA: And so, in 10 years' time,
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CA: I tako, za 10 godina,
10:53
what do you picture yourself doing?
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kako se vidiš, što ćeš raditi?
10:56
CP: That's a good question.
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CP: Dobro pitanje.
10:58
As I said, I just went back to school,
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Kao što sam rekao, vratio sam se u školu,
11:00
and I am considering
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i razmišljam
11:02
majoring in urban studies
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studirati gradske studije,
11:04
and then going on to urban planning,
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a zatim ići u urbano planiranje,
11:06
kind of taking whatever I've learned from online communities
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iskoristiti sve što sam naučio od Internet zajednica
11:09
and trying to adapt that
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i pokušati to prilagoditi
11:11
to a physical community.
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fizičkim zajednicama.
11:14
CA: Chris, thank you. Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for coming to TED.
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CA: Chris, hvala. Apsolutno fascinantno. Hvala što te došli na TED.
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