Kwame Anthony Appiah: Is religion good or bad? (This is a trick question)

Prevodilac: Stefan Zrnović Lektor: Mile Živković

People say things about religion all the time.

Ljudi stalno govore razne stvari o religiji.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

The late, great Christopher Hitchens

Sada već pokojni, veliki Kristofer Hičens

wrote a book called "God Is Not Great"

napisao je knjigu po imenu "Bog nije velik".

whose subtitle was, "Religion Poisons Everything."

čiji je podnaslov bio "Religija truje sve."

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

But last month, in Time magazine,

Ali prošlog meseca, u časopisu Tajm,

Rabbi David Wolpe, who I gather is referred to as America's rabbi,

rabin Dejvid Volp, koga ja smatram američkim rabinom,

said, to balance that against that negative characterization,

rekao je, kako bi ublažio negativnu karakterizaciju,

that no important form of social change

da nijedan važan oblik društvene promene

can be brought about except through organized religion.

ne može biti ostvaren nikako osim kroz organizovanu religiju.

Now, remarks of this sort on the negative

Primedbe na ovaj oblik negativne

and the positive side are very old.

i pozitivne strane su veoma stare.

I have one in my pocket here

Imam u svom džepu,

from the first century BCE by Lucretius,

iz prvog veka pre nove ere, Lukrecijovu

the author of "On the Nature of Things," who said,

"O prirodi stvari", gde je autor rekao:

"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum" --

"Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum" -

I should have been able to learn that by heart —

Trebalo bi da znam ovo napamet -

which is, that's how much religion

što znači, da koliko je religija

is able to persuade people to do evil,

u mogućnosti da ubedi ljude da čine zlo,

and he was talking about the fact

a govorio je o činjenici

of Agamemnon's decision to place his daughter

Agamemnonove odluke da smesti svoju ćerku

Iphigenia on an altar of sacrifice

Ifigeniju na žrtveni oltar

in order to preserve the prospects of his army.

kako bi osigurao uspeh svoje vojske.

So there have been these long debates

Postojale su velike rasprave,

over the centuries, in that case, actually,

vekovima, i u tom slučaju, zapravo možemo

we can say over the millennia, about religion.

govoriti o milenijumima, o religiji.

People have talked about it a lot,

Ljudi su govorili o tome mnogo,

and they've said good and bad

i rekli su dobre i loše

and indifferent things about it.

i ravnodušne stvari o tome.

What I want to persuade you of today

Danas želim da vas uverim

is of a very simple claim,

u veoma jednostavnu tvrdnju,

which is that these debates are

a to je da su te debate

in a certain sense preposterous,

u neku ruku besmislene,

because there is no such thing as religion

jer ne postoji nijedna stvar kao religija

about which to make these claims.

o kojoj se grade takve tvrdnje.

There isn't a thing called religion,

Ne postoji stvar pod imenom "religija",

and so it can't be good or bad.

pa ne može biti dobra ili loša.

It can't even be indifferent.

Ne može čak biti ni neutralna.

And if you think about claims

Ako razmislite o tvrdnjama

about the nonexistence of things,

o nepostojanju stvari,

one obvious way to try and establish

očigledan način da se pokuša i postavi

the nonexistence of a purported thing

nepostojanje smislene stvari

would be to offer a definition of that thing

bi bilo pružanje definicije te stvari

and then to see whether anything satisfied it.

i videti da li ju je bilo šta zadovoljilo.

I'm going to start out on that little route

Počeću sa tom premisom

to begin with.

za početak.

So if you look in the dictionaries

Ako pogledate u rečnike

and if you think about it,

i ako razmisilite o tome,

one very natural definition of religion

veoma prirodna definicija religije

is that it involves belief in gods or in spiritual beings.

je da ona uključuje verovanje u bogove ili duhovna bića.

Kao što rekoh, to stoji u mnogim rečnicima,

As I say, this is in many dictionaries,

but you'll also find it actually

ali ćete zapravo pronaći

in the work of Sir Edward Tylor,

u radu Ser Edvarda Tajlora,

koji je bio prvi profesor antropologije na Oksfordu,

who was the first professor of anthropology at Oxford,

one of the first modern anthropologists.

jedan od prvih modernih antropologa.

In his book on primitive culture,

U njegovoj knjizi o primitivnoj kulturi,

he says the heart of religion is what he called animism,

kaže da je srce religije ono što on zove animizam,

that is, the belief in spiritual agency,

što je verovanje u duhovni organ,

belief in spirits.

verovanje u duhovnost.

The first problem for that definition

Prvi problem za tu definiciju

is from a recent novel by Paul Beatty called "Tuff."

potiče od skorašnjeg romana Pola Betija pod imenom "Taf".

There's a guy talking to a rabbi.

Čovek priča sa rabinom.

The rabbi says he doesn't believe in God.

Rabin kaže da ne veruje u boga. Čovek kaže:

The guy says, "You're a rabbi, how can you not believe in God?"

"Ti si rabin, kako možeš da ne veruješ u boga?"

And the reply is, "It's what's so great about being Jewish.

On odgovara: "Zato je tako dobro biti Jevrej.

You don't have to believe in a God per se,

Ne moraš da veruješ u boga samog po sebi,

just in being Jewish." (Laughter)

samo zato što si Jevrej." (Smeh)

So if this guy is a rabbi, and a Jewish rabbi,

Ako je čovek rabin i Jevrej rabin

and if you have to believe in God in order to be religious,

i ako morate da verujete u boga da biste bili religiozni,

then we have the rather counterintuitive conclusion

onda imamo kontraintuitivni zaključak

that since it's possible to be a Jewish rabbi

da pošto je moguće biti jevrejski rabin

without believing in God,

bez verovanja u boga,

Judaism isn't a religion.

judaizam nije religija.

That seems like a pretty counterintuitive thought.

To izgleda kao prilično kontraintuitivna misao.

Here's another argument against this view.

Evo drugog argumenta protiv ovakvog viđenja.

A friend of mine, an Indian friend of mine,

Moj prijatelj, Indijac,

went to his grandfather when he was very young,

išao je kod svog dede kad je bio veoma mlad

a child, and said to him,

kao dete, i rekao mu:

"I want to talk to you about religion,"

"Želim da pričam sa tobom o religiji."

and his grandfather said, "You're too young.

a deda mu je rekao: "Premlad si.

Come back when you're a teenager."

Dođi kad budeš tinejdžer."

So he came back when he was a teenager,

Došao je kad je postao tinejdžer,

and he said to his grandfather,

i rekao je dedi:

"It may be a bit late now

"Možda je sad malo kasno

because I've discovered that I don't believe in the gods."

jer sam otkrio da ne verujem u bogove."

And his grandfather, who was a wise man, said,

Deda, koji je bio mudar čovek, reče mu:

"Oh, so you belong to the atheist branch

"Dakle, ti pripadaš ateističkoj branši

of the Hindu tradition." (Laughter)

Hindu tradicije." (Smeh)

And finally, there's this guy,

Na kraju, postoji jedan čovek

who famously doesn't believe in God.

koji uopšte ne veruje u boga.

His name is the Dalai Lama.

Njegovo ime je Dalaj Lama.

He often jokes that he's one of the world's leading atheists.

Često se šali da je on jedan od najvećih svetskih ateista.

But it's true, because the Dalai Lama's religion

Ali to je istina, jer religija Dalaj Lame

does not involve belief in God.

ne uključuje verovanje u boga.

Now you might think this just shows

Možete misliti da to samo pokazuje

that I've given you the wrong definition

da sam vam dao pogrešnu definiciju

and that I should come up with some other definition

i da bi trebalo da imam drugu

and test it against these cases

i da je testiram sa ovim slučajevima

and try and find something that captures

i pokušam da nađem nešto što obuhvata

atheistic Judaism, atheistic Hinduism,

ateistički judaizam, ateistički hinduizam,

and atheistic Buddhism as forms of religiosity,

i ateistički budizam kao forme religioznosti, ali zapravo

but I actually think that that's a bad idea,

verujem da je to loša ideja,

and the reason I think it's a bad idea

a razlog zbog kojeg mislim da je to loša ideja

is that I don't think that's how

je da ne verujem da je to način

our concept of religion works.

na koji naš koncept religije funkcioniše.

I think the way our concept of religion works

Mislim da naš koncept religije

is that we actually have, we have a list

funkcioniše tako što imamo listu

of paradigm religions

paradigmi religija

and their sub-parts, right,

i njihove poddelove

and if something new comes along

i ako se nešto novo pojavi

that purports to be a religion,

što nagoveštava religiju,

what we ask is, "Well, is it like one of these?"

ono što pitamo je: "Da li je nešto poput ovih?"

Right?

Zar ne?

And I think that's not only how we think about religion,

Mislim da to nije jedini način kako mislimo o religiji.

and that's, as it were,

To je, kao što je bilo,

so from our point of view,

sa naše tačke gledišta,

anything on that list had better be a religion,

bilo bi dobro da išta na toj listi bude religija,

which is why I don't think an account of religion

zbog čega mislim da prikaz religije

that excludes Buddhism and Judaism

koji isključuje budizam i judaizam

has a chance of being a good starter,

nema šanse da bude dobar početak,

because they're on our list.

jer su na našoj listi.

But why do we have such a list?

Ali zašto imamo tu listu?

What's going on? How did it come about

Šta se dešava?

that we have this list?

Kako je došlo do toga da imamo listu?

I think the answer is a pretty simple one

Mislim da je odgovor prilično jednostavan

and therefore crude and contentious.

i stoga sirov i sporan.

I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with it,

Siguran sam da se dosta ljudi neće

but here's my story,

složiti sa time, ali evo moje priče,

and true or not, it's a story that I think

i istinita ili ne, to je priča koja vam

gives you a good sense of how

daje dobar osećaj za to kako je

the list might have come about,

lista možda nastala i stoga vam

and therefore helps you to think about

pomaže da razmislite o tome

what use the list might be.

koja upotreba liste može postojati.

I think the answer is, European travelers,

Mislim da je odgovor ovde, kada su evropski putnici,

starting roughly about the time of Columbus,

počevši otprilike u vreme Kolumba,

started going around the world.

krenuli na put oko sveta.

They came from a Christian culture,

Potekli su iz hrišćanske kulture,

and when they arrived in a new place,

i kada su stigli na novo mesto

they noticed that some people didn't have Christianity,

primetili su da neki ljudi nemaju hrišćanstvo

and so they asked themselves the following question:

i pitali su se sledeće:

what have they got instead of Christianity?

šta imaju umesto hrišćanstva?

And that list was essentially constructed.

A onda je lista nastala.

It consists of the things that other people had

Sastoji se od stvari koje su drugi ljudi imali

instead of Christianity.

umesto hrišćanstva.

Now there's a difficulty with proceeding in that way,

Postoji poteškoća sa napretkom u tom smeru

which is that Christianity is extremely,

a to je da je hrišćanstvo ekstremno,

even on that list, it's an extremely specific tradition.

čak i na toj listi, ekstremno specifična tradicija.

It has all kinds of things in it

U sebi ima svakakve stvari

that are very, very particular

koje su izuzetno posebne

that are the results of the specifics

i koje su posledice specifičnosti

of Christian history,

hrišćanske istorije i jedna stvar

and one thing that's at the heart of it,

koja je u srcu toga,

one thing that's at the heart of most understandings of Christianity,

jedna stvar koja je u srcu većine shvatanja hrišćanstva,

which is the result of the specific history of Christianity,

što je posledica specifične istorije hrišćanstva,

is that it's an extremely creedal religion.

a to je da je to veoma ubedljiva religija.

It's a religion in which people are really concerned

To je religija u kojoj su ljudi veoma zabrinuti

about whether you believe the right things.

za to da li verujete u prave stvari.

The history of Christianity, the internal history of Christianity,

Interna istorija hrišćanstva je većinom istorija

is largely the history of people killing each other

ljudi koji su ubijali jedni druge

because they believed the wrong thing,

jer su verovali u pogrešne stvari,

and it's also involved in

i takođe je uključena

struggles with other religions,

u borbe sa ostalim religijama,

obviously starting in the Middle Ages,

očigledno počevši od Srednjeg veka,

a struggle with Islam,

borba sa Islamom,

in which, again, it was the infidelity,

u kojem je, ponovo, nevera,

the fact that they didn't believe the right things,

činjenica da nisu verovali u prave stvari,

that seemed so offensive to the Christian world.

to je delovalo veoma uvredljivo za hrišćanski svet.

Now that's a very specific and particular history

To je veoma specifična i posebna istorija

that Christianity has,

koju hrišćanstvo ima,

and not everywhere is everything

i nije svuda sve

that has ever been put on this sort of list like it.

što je ikada bilo stavljeno na ovakvu vrstu liste.

Here's another problem, I think.

Evo i drugog problema.

A very specific thing happened.

Dogodila se veoma posebna stvar.

It was actually adverted to earlier,

Zapravo je spomenuto ranije,

but a very specific thing happened

ali veoma posebna stvar se dogodila

in the history of the kind of Christianity

u istoriji vrste hrišćanstva

that we see around us

koju vidimo oko sebe

mostly in the United States today,

većinom danas u Americi

and it happened in the late 19th century,

i desila se krajem 19. veka,

and that specific thing that happened

a ta posebna stvar koja se dogodila

in the late 19th century

krajem 19. veka

was a kind of deal that was cut

je bila vrsta dogovora koji je postignut

between science,

između nauke,

this new way of organizing intellectual authority,

novog načina organizovanja intelektualnog autoriteta,

and religion.

i religije.

If you think about the 18th century, say,

Ako pomislite na 18. vek, recimo,

if you think about intellectual life

ako mislite

before the late 19th century,

o intelektualnom životu pre kraja 19. veka,

anything you did, anything you thought about,

sve što ste uradili, sve o čemu ste mislili

whether it was the physical world,

bilo da je fizički svet,

the human world,

ljudski svet,

the natural world apart from the human world,

prirodni svet van ljudskog,

or morality, anything you did

ili moralnost, bilo šta što ste radili

would have been framed against the background

bi se uokvirilo u pozadinu

of a set of assumptions that were religious,

grupe religioznih pretpostavki,

Christian assumptions.

hrišćanskih pretpostavki.

You couldn't give an account

Ne biste mogli da ispričate

of the natural world

o prirodnom svetu,

that didn't say something about its relationship,

a da ne kažete nešto o njegovoj vezi,

for example, to the creation story

na primer, za priču o postanju

in the Abrahamic tradition,

u avramskoj tradiciji,

the creation story in the first book of the Torah.

priču o postanju u prvoj knjizi Tore.

So everything was framed in that way.

Sve je bilo uokvireno na taj način.

But this changes in the late 19th century,

To se menja krajem 19. veka

and for the first time, it's possible for people

i po prvi put, moguće je da ljudi

to develop serious intellectual careers

razviju ozbiljne intelektualne karijere

as natural historians like Darwin.

kao prirodni istoričari poput Darvina.

Darwin worried about the relationship between

Darvin je bio zabrinut za vezu između

what he said and the truths of religion,

onoga što je rekao i istina religije

but he could proceed, he could write books

ali je mogao da nastavi, da piše knjige

about his subject

o svojoj temi,

without having to say what the relationship was

a da ne mora da objasni kakva je bila veza

to the religious claims,

sa religijskim tvrdnjama

and similarly, geologists increasingly could talk about it.

i takođe, geolozi su mogli da o tome govore.

In the early 19th century, if you were a geologist

U ranom 19. veku, ako biste bili geolog

and made a claim about the age of the Earth,

i izneli tvrdnju o dobu Zemlje,

you had to explain whether that was consistent

morali biste da objasnite da li je bila saglasna

or how it was or wasn't consistent

ili kako jeste ili nije saglasna

with the age of the Earth implied

sa dobom Zemlje

by the account in Genesis.

koje se navodi u Postanju.

By the end of the 19th century,

Krajem 19. veka, mogli ste

you can just write a geology textbook

da napišete udžbenik o geologiji

in which you make arguments about how old the Earth is.

u kojem dajete argumente koliko je Zemlja stara.

So there's a big change, and that division,

Dakle, postoji velika promena

that intellectual division of labor occurs as I say, I think,

i ta intelektualna podela rada se javlja

and it sort of solidifies so that by the end

i učvršćuje tako da krajem

of the 19th century in Europe,

19. veka u Evropi

there's a real intellectual division of labor,

nastaje intelektualna podela rada,

and you can do all sorts of serious things,

i možete da radite svakakve ozbiljne stvari

including, increasingly, even philosophy,

uključujući, čak i filozofiju,

without being constrained by the thought,

a da ne budete ograničeni mišlju:

"Well, what I have to say has to be consistent

"Ono što moram da kažem mora biti u saglasnosti

with the deep truths that are given to me

sa dubokim istinama koje mi je dala

by our religious tradition."

religijska tradicija."

So imagine someone who's coming out

Zamislite nekoga ko izlazi

of that world, that late-19th-century world,

iz tog sveta, tog sveta iz kraja 19. veka,

coming into the country that I grew up in, Ghana,

ulazi u zemlju gde sam ja odrastao, Ganu,

the society that I grew up in, Asante,

društvo u kojem sam odrastao, Asante,

coming into that world

ulazi u taj svet

at the turn of the 20th century

na prekretnici 20. veka

with this question that made the list:

sa pitanjem koje je sačinilo listu:

what have they got instead of Christianity?

šta oni imaju umesto hrišćanstva?

Well, here's one thing he would have noticed,

Evo jedne stvari koju bi primetio,

and by the way, there was a person who actually did this.

i inače, postojala je osoba koja je uradila to.

His name was Captain Rattray,

To je bio kapetan Ratrej,

he was sent as the British government anthropologist,

i bio je poslat kao antropolog britanske vlade

and he wrote a book about Asante religion.

i napisao je knjigu o Asante religiji.

This is a soul disc.

Ovo je disk duše.

Ima ih gomila u Britanskom muzeju. Mogao bih da vam dam

There are many of them in the British Museum.

I could give you an interesting, different history

zanimljivu, različitu istoriju

of how it comes about that many of the things

o tome kako je došlo da toliko mnogo stvari

from my society ended up in the British Museum,

iz mog društva završi u Britanskom muzeju,

but we don't have time for that.

ali nemamo vremena za to.

So this object is a soul disc.

Ovaj predmet je disk duše.

What is a soul disc?

Šta je to disk duše?

It was worn around the necks

Nošen je oko vrata

of the soul-washers of the Asante king.

čistača duše Asante kralja.

What was their job? To wash the king's soul.

Šta je bilo njihov posao? Da čiste kraljevu dušu.

It would take a long while

Trebalo je dosta vremena

to explain how a soul could be the kind of thing

da se objasni kako duša može biti stvar

that could be washed,

koja se može čistiti,

but Rattray knew that this was religion

ali je Ratrej znao da je ovo religija

because souls were in play.

jer su duše bile u igri.

And similarly,

I takođe,

there were many other things, many other practices.

bilo je mnogo drugih stvari, mnogo običaja.

For example, every time anybody had a drink, more or less,

Na primer, skoro svaki put kad bi neko pio piće,

they poured a little bit on the ground

prosuli bi malo na zemlju

in what's called the libation,

nazivajući to prolivanjem u slavu boga,

and they gave some to the ancestors.

i dali bi nešto precima.

My father did this. Every time he opened a bottle of whiskey,

Moj otac je to radio. Svaki put kad bi otvorio bocu viskija,

which I'm glad to say was very often,

što je srećom bilo često,

he would take the top off and pour off just a little on the ground,

skinuo bi čep i prosuo veoma malo na zemlju,

and he would talk to,

i govorio bi,

he would say to Akroma-Ampim, the founder of our line,

obraćao bi se Akromi-Ampimu, osnivaču naše loze,

or Yao Antony, my great uncle,

ili Jao Entoniju, mom pradedi,

he would talk to them,

govorio bi im,

offer them a little bit of this.

nudeći malo toga.

And finally, there were these huge public ceremonials.

I konačno, bile su ogromne javne ceremonije.

This is an early-19th-century drawing

Ovo je crtež iz ranog 19. veka

by another British military officer

koji je nacrtao drugi britanski oficir

of such a ceremonial,

i koji prikazuje takvu ceremonju,

where the king was involved,

gde je uključen kralj,

and the king's job,

i kraljevski posao,

one of the large parts of his job,

jedan od većih delova njegovog posla,

apart from organizing warfare and things like that,

pored organizovanja rata i sličnih stvari,

was to look after the tombs of his ancestors,

bilo je da nadgleda grobove svojih predaka

and when a king died,

i kada je kralj umro, tron na kom je sedeo

the stool that he sat on was blackened

bio je zacrnjen

and put in the royal ancestral temple,

i odnešen u kraljevski hram predaka.

and every 40 days,

I svakih 40 dana kralj Asantea

the King of Asante has to go and do cult

morao je da ode i izvrši kult

for his ancestors.

za svoje pretke.

That's a large part of his job,

To je veliki deo posla

and people think that if he doesn't do it,

i ljudi smatraju da ako ne uradi to,

things will fall apart.

stvari će se raspasti.

So he's a religious figure,

Dakle, on je religiozna figura,

as Rattray would have said,

kao što bi Ratrej rekao,

as well as a political figure.

kao i politička figura.

So all this would count as religion for Rattray,

Sve ovo bi se računalo kao religija za Ratreja.

but my point is that when you look

ali moje mišljenje je da kada gledate

into the lives of those people,

u živote tih ljudi,

you also find that every time they do anything,

otkrivate da svaki put kad urade nešto

they're conscious of the ancestors.

svesni su svojih predaka.

Every morning at breakfast,

Svako jutro na doručku

you can go outside the front of the house

odete napolje ispred kuće

and make an offering to the god tree, the nyame dua

i date ponudu božjem drvetu, nima due

outside your house,

van vaše kuće, i ponovo,

and again, you'll talk to the gods

razgovaraćete sa bogovima,

and the high gods and the low gods

visokim i niskim bogovima,

and the ancestors and so on.

precima i tako dalje.

This is not a world

Ovo nije svet

in which the separation between religion and science

u kojem se desilo razdvajanje

has occurred.

između religije i nauke.

Religion has not being separated

Religija se nije razdvojila

from any other areas of life,

od bilo koje oblasti života,

and in particular,

i posebno,

what's crucial to understand about this world

što je ključno za razumevanje sveta,

is that it's a world in which the job

je to da je to svet u kojem posao

that science does for us

koji nauka obavlja za nas

is done by what Rattray is going to call religion,

urađen onim što će Ratrej nazvati religijom,

because if they want an explanation of something,

jer ako žele da objasne nešto,

if they want to know why the crop just failed,

da znaju zašto usev nije uspeo,

if they want to know why it's raining

da znaju zašto pada kiša

or not raining, if they need rain,

ili ne pada, ako im treba kiša,

if they want to know why

ako žele da znaju zašto

their grandfather has died,

im je deda umro,

they are going to appeal to the very same entities,

pozvaće se na ista imena,

the very same language,

iste jezike,

talk to the very same gods about that.

govoriće istim bogovima o tome.

This great separation, in other words,

Ovo veliko razdvajanje, drugim rečima,

between religion and science hasn't happened.

između religije i nauke se nije dogodilo.

Now, this would be a mere historical curiosity,

Ovo bi bila samo istorijska zanimljivost,

except that in large parts of the world,

samo što je to u velikom delu sveta

this is still the truth.

i dalje istina.

I had the privilege of going to a wedding

Imao sam privilegiju da idem na venčanje

the other day in northern Namibia,

pre neki dan u severnoj Namibiji,

20 miles or so south of the Angolan border

oko 30km južno od granice sa Angolom

in a village of 200 people.

u selu od 200 ljudi.

These were modern people.

Ovo su bili moderni ljudi.

We had with us Oona Chaplin,

Sa nama je bilaUna Čaplin,

who some of you may have heard of,

za koju ste neki od vas i čuli

and one of the people from this village came up to her,

i jedan od ljudi iz sela joj je prišao

and said, "I've seen you in 'Game of Thrones.'"

i rekao: "Video sam te u Igri prestola."

So these were not people who were isolated from our world,

To nisu bili ljudi koji su se izolovali iz našeg sveta,

but nevertheless, for them,

ali ipak za njih,

the gods and the spirits are still very much there,

bogovi i duše su još uvek tu

and when we were on the bus going back and forth

i kada smo bili u autobusu, vozeći se između

to the various parts of the [ceremony],

različitih delova ceremonije,

they prayed not just in a generic way

nisu se molili samo na opšti način

but for the safety of the journey,

već za sigurnost putovanja

and they meant it,

i to su i mislili

and when they said to me that my mother,

i kada su mi rekli da je majka,

the bridegroom's [grandmother],

mladina baba,

was with us, they didn't mean it figuratively.

sa nama, nisu mislili figurativno.

They meant, even though she was a dead person,

Mislili su, čak i ako je bila mrtva osoba,

they meant that she was still around.

mislili su da je i dalje živa.

So in large parts of the world today,

U većini delova sveta danas,

that separation between science and religion

to razdvajnje između nauke i religije

hasn't occurred in large parts of the world today,

nije se dogodilo,

and as I say, these are not --

i kao što sam rekao, to nisu -

This guy used to work for Chase and at the World Bank.

Ovaj momak je radio za Čejs i Svetsku banku.

These are fellow citizens of the world with you,

Ovo su stanovnici sveta zajedno sa vama

but they come from a place in which religion

ali dolaze iz mesta u kojem religija

is occupying a very different role.

igra veoma različitu ulogu.

So what I want you to think about next time somebody wants

Sledeći put kad neko želi

to make some vast generalization about religion

da napravi široku generalizaciju o religiji

is that maybe there isn't such a thing

želim da pomislite da možda ne postoji religija,

as a religion, such a thing as religion,

religija kao takva,

and that therefore what they say

i stoga ono što kažu

cannot possibly be true.

ne može sigurno biti istina.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)