Loretta Napoleoni: The intricate economics of terrorism

Translator: Simon Djernæs Reviewer: Sebastian Winkelmann

I'm going to show you how terrorism

Jeg vil vise jer hvordan terrorisme

actually interacts with our daily life.

virkelig interagerer med vores daglige liv.

15 years ago I received a phone call from a friend.

For 15 år siden modtog jeg et opkald, fra en ven.

At the time he was looking after the rights of political prisoners

Han holdte han øje med rettighederne for politiske fangere

in Italian jails.

i italienske fængsler.

He asked me if I wanted to interview the Red Brigades.

Han spurgte mig, om jeg ville lave et interview med "Den Røde Brigade."

Now, as many of you may remember,

Som mange af jer måske husker,

the Red Brigades was a terrorist, Marxist organization

så var "Den Røde Brigade" en terroristisk og marxistisk organisation

which was very active in Italy

som var meget oppe i Italien

from the 1960s until the mid-1980s.

fra 1960erne til midt i 1980erne.

As part of their strategy

Som del af deres strategi

the Red Brigades never spoke with anybody, not even with their lawyers.

talte "Den Røde Brigade" aldrig med nogen, end ikke deres egne advokater.

They sat in silence through their trails,

De sad tavse igennem deres retsag,

waving occasionally at family and friends.

med lejlighedsvise vink til familie og venner.

In 1993 they declared the end of the armed struggle.

I 1993 erklærede de afslutningen på væbnet kamp.

And they drew a list of people with whom they would talk,

Og de lavede en liste af folk de ville tale

and tell their story.

og fortælle deres historie til.

And I was one of those people.

Og jeg var en af de mennesker.

When I asked my friend why the Red Brigades want to talk to me,

Da jeg spurgte min ven, om hvorfor de ville tale med mig,

he said that the female members of the organization

svarede han, at de kvindelige medlemmer af denne organisation

had actually supported my name.

faktisk havde understøtte mit navn.

In particular, one person had put it forward.

Særdeles én person, havde fået den frem.

She was my childhood friend.

Hun var min barndomsven.

She had joined the Red Brigades

Hun havde tilsluttet sig "Den Røde Brigade"

and became a leader of the organization.

og blevet en leder i organisationen.

Naturally, I didn't know that

Naturligvis vidste jeg ikke det

until the day she was arrested.

før den dag hun blev arresteret.

In fact, I read it in the newspaper.

Faktisk så læste jeg det i avisen.

At the time of the phone call

På det tidspunkt opkaldet kom

I just had a baby,

havde jeg lige fået en baby.

I successfully completed a management buyout

Jeg gennemførte en erhvervelse

to the company I was working with,

af det firma som jeg arbejdede med,

and the last thing I wanted to do was to go back home

og det sidste jeg havde lyst til, var at gå hjem igen

and touring the high-security prisons.

og gå rundt i højsikkerheds-fængsler.

But this is exactly what I did

Men det var præcis hvad jeg gjorde

because I wanted to know

fordi jeg ville vide

what had turned my best friend

hvad der havde fået min bedste veninde

into a terrorist,

til at blive terrorist

and why she'd never tried to recruit me.

og hvorfor hun aldrig prøvede, at rekrutere mig.

(Laughter)

(Latter)

(Applause)

(Bifald)

So, this is exactly what I did.

Så, det gjorde jeg.

Now, I found the answer very quickly.

Jeg fandt hurtigt svaret.

I actually had failed

Jeg havde faktisk fejlet

the psychological profiling of a terrorist.

den psykologiske profilering af en terrorist.

The center committee of the Red Brigades

Hovedudvalget af "Den Røde Brigade"

had judged me too single-minded

havde vurderet mig værende for målbevidst

and too opinionated to become a good terrorist.

og for påståelig til at blive en god terrorist.

My friend, on the other hand, she was a good terrorist

Min veninde, på den anden side, hun var en god terrorist

because she was very good at following orders.

fordi hun var meget god til at følge ordre.

She also embraced violence.

Hun omfavnede også vold.

Because she believed that the only way

Fordi hun troede at den eneste måde

to unblock what, at the time,

at fjerne blokeringen, som på tidspunktet,

was known as a blocked democracy,

var kendt for at være et blokeret demokrati

Italy, a country run by the same party for 35 years

Italien, et land styret af det samme parti i 35 år

was the arms struggle.

var gruppens konflikt.

At the same time, while I was interviewing the Red Brigades,

På samme tid, mens jeg interviewede "Den Røde Brigade",

I also discovered that their life was not ruled

opdagede jeg, at deres liv ikke var styret

by politics or ideology,

af politik eller ideologier,

but actually was ruled by economics.

men faktisk var styret af økonomi.

They were constantly short of cash.

De var hele tiden i pengenød.

They were constantly searching for cash.

De søgte konstant efter penge.

Now, contrary to what many people believe,

I modsætning til hvad mange folk tror,

terrorism is actually a very expensive business.

så er terror faktisk en meget dyr forrretning.

I'll give you an idea.

Lad mig give jeg en fornemmelse.

In the 1970s, the turnover of the Red Brigades

I 1970erne, var omsætningen for "Den Røde Brigade"

on a yearly basis

på årsbasis

was seven million dollars.

syv millioner dollars.

This is roughly between 100

Det er rundt regnet mellem 100

and 150 million, today.

og 150 millioner idag.

Now, you know, if you live underground

Som I nok ved, hvis I lever under jorden

it's really hard to produce this amount of money.

så er det meget svært at producere den mængde penge.

But this also explains why, when I was interviewing the Red Brigades,

Men det forklarer også hvorfor, at da jeg interviewede "Den Røde Brigade"

and then, later on, other arms organizations,

og senere, andre væbnede organisationer,

including members of al-Zarqawi group in the Middle East,

inklusiv medlemmer af al-Zarqawi gruppen i Mellemøsten,

everybody was extremely reluctant

var alle ekstremt modstræbende

to talk about ideology, or politics.

for at tale om ideologier eller politik.

Because they had no idea.

Fordi de ingen anelse havde derom.

The political vision of a terrorist organization

Den politiske holdning i en terrororganisation

is decided by the leadership,

er valgt af lederne,

which, generally, is never more than five to seven people.

hvilket, generelt, ikke er mere end fem til syv personer.

All the others do, day in and day out,

Alt hvad de andre laver, dag ud og dag ind

is search for money.

er at lede efter penge.

Once, for example, I was interviewing

For eksempel, engang jeg interviewede

this part-timer from the Red Brigades.

en deltidsarbejder i "Den Røde Brigade."

It was a psychiatrist. He loved sailing.

Det var en psykiater. Han elskede at sejle.

He was a really keen sailor. And he had this beautiful boat.

Han var allerede en ivrig sejler. Og han havde denne smukke båd.

And he told me that the best time of his life

Han fortalte, at den bedste tid i hans liv

was when he was a member of the Red Brigades

var da han var medlem af "Den Røde Brigade"

and he went sailing, every summer, back and forth

og sejlede, hver sommer, frem og tilbage

from Lebanon, where he would pick up

fra Libanon, hvor han skulle samle

Soviet weapons from the PLO,

sovjetiske våben op fra PLO

and then carry them all the way to Sardinia

og sejle dem hele vejen til Sardinien,

where the other arms organization from Europe would go

hvor de andre væbnede organisationer fra Europa, ville tage hen

and take their share of the arms.

og tage deres del af våbene.

For that service the Red Brigades were actually paid a fee,

For den ydelse fik "Den Røde Brigade" faktisk en betaling

which went to fund their organization.

hvilket gik til at støtte organisationen.

So, because I am a trained economist

Fordi jeg er en erfaren økonom

and I think in economic terms,

og tænker i økonomiske baner,

all of the sudden I thought,

tænkte jeg lige pludselig:

maybe there is something here.

måske er der noget her.

Maybe there is a link, a commercial link,

Måske er der en kommerciel forbindelse,

between one organization and another one.

mellem en organisation og en anden.

But it was only when I interviewed

Men det var kun da jeg interviewede

Mario Moretti, the head of the Red Brigades,

Mario Moretti, leder af "Den Røde Brigade"

the man who kidnapped and killed Aldo Moro,

manden som kidnappede og dræbte Aldo Moro,

Italian former prime minister,

Italiens forhenværende statsminister,

that I finally realized

at jeg endeligt opdagede

that terrorism is actually business.

at terrorisme faktisk er en forretning.

I was having lunch with him

Jeg spiste forkost med ham

in a high-security prison in Italy.

i et højsikkerhedsfængsel i Italien.

And as we were eating,

Og mens vi spiste,

I had the distinct feeling

havde jeg en særskilt følelse

that I was back in the city of London,

af at jeg var tilbage i London

having lunch with a fellow banker or an economist.

hvor jeg spiste frokost med en kollega eller en økonom.

This guy thought in the same way I did.

Denne fyr tænkte på samme måde som mig.

So, I decided that I wanted to investigate the economics of terrorism.

Så jeg besluttede, at jeg ville undersøge økonomien bag terrorisme.

Naturally, nobody wanted to fund my research.

Naturligvis ville ingen betale for min undersøgelse.

In fact, I think many people thought that I was a bit crazy.

Jeg tror faktisk mange troede jeg var skør.

You know, that woman that goes around to foundations

Kvinden der går rundt til fonde

asking for money, thinking about the economics of terrorism.

og spørger om penge, mens hun tænker på økonomien bag terrorisme.

So, in the end, I took a decision

Til sidst tog jeg en beslutning,

that, in retrospect, did change my life.

som, set i bakspejlet, ændrede mit liv.

I sold my company,

Jeg solgte mit firma

and funded the research myself.

og finansierede undersøgelsen selv.

And what I discovered

Og hvad jeg opdagede

is this parallel reality,

var denne parallelle virkelighed,

another international economic system,

et andet internationalt økonomisk system,

which runs parallel to our own,

som fungere parallelt til vores eget,

which has been created by arms organizations

hvilket er blevet lavet af organisationer

since the end of World War II.

siden slutningen af 2. verdenskrig.

And what is even more shocking

Og endnu mere chokerende

is that this system

er at dette system,

has followed, step by step, the evolution

skridt efter skridt, har fulgt udviklingen

of our own system,

af vores eget system,

of our Western capitalism.

af vores vestlige kapitalisme.

And there are three main stages.

Og der er tre hovedfaser.

The first one is the state sponsor of terrorism.

Den første er at staten sponsorerer terror.

The second one is the privatization of terrorism.

Det andet er privatisering af terrorisme.

And the third, of course, is the globalization of terrorism.

Og det tredje er, selvfølgelig, globaliseringen af terrorisme.

So, state sponsor of terrorism,

Statsstøtte til terrorisme

feature of the Cold War.

var en funktion i den kolde krig.

This is when the two superpowers were fighting

Det var da to supermagter kæmpede

a war by proxy,

en stedfortræderkrig

along the periphery of the sphere of influence,

langs periferien af ​​deres indflydelsessfære,

fully funding arms organizations.

fuldt støttende væbnede organisationer.

A mix of legal and illegal activities is used.

En blanding af lovlig og ulovlig aktivitet blev brugt.

So, the link between crime and terror

Forbindelsen mellem forbrydelse og terror

is established very early on.

etableres meget tidligt.

And here is the best example,

Her er et af det bedste eksempel,

the Contras in Nicaragua, created by the CIA,

"Contras" i Nicaragua, oprettet af CIA,

legally funded by the U.S. Congress,

lovligt støttet af den amerikanske kongres

illegally funded by the Reagan administration

ulovligt støttet af Reagan-administrationen

via covert operation, for example, the Iran-Contra Affair.

via dækoperationer, f.eks. Iran-Contra-skandalen.

Then comes the late 1970s, early '80s,

Så kommer de sene 1970ere, tidlig '80ere,

and some groups successfully carry out

og nogle grupper udfører, succesfuldt,

the privatization of terrorism.

privatisering af terrorisme.

So, they gain independence from the sponsor,

Så de opnår uafhængighed fra sponsorerne

and start funding themselves.

og begynder at finansierer sig selv.

Now, again we see a mix of legal and illegal activities.

Igen ser man en blanding af lovlig og ulovlig aktiviteter.

So, Arafat used to get a percentage

Arafat plejede at få en procentdel

of the smuggling of hashish

af hashsmuglingen

from Bekáa Valley, which is the valley between Lebanon and Syria.

fra Bekáa dalen, som er en dal mellem Libanon og Syrien.

And the IRA, which control the private transportation system

Og IRA, som styrede det private transportsystem

in Northern Ireland, did exactly the same thing.

i Nordirland, gjorde præcis det samme.

So, every single time

Så hver eneste gang

that somebody got into a taxi in Belfast

at nogen tog en taxi i Belfast,

without knowing, actually,

uden at vide det,

was funding the IRA.

støttede faktisk IRA.

But the great change came, of course,

Men den store forandring kom, selvfølgelig,

with globalization and deregulation.

med globalisering og deregulering.

This is when arms organization were able to link up,

Det er, når de væbnede organisationerne er i stand til at knytte,

also financially, with each other.

også finansielt, sig med hinanden.

But above all, they started to do

Men frem for alt, begyndte de at lave

serious business with the world of crime.

seriøs foretning med verdens kriminalitet.

And together they money-laundered

Og sammen hvidvaskede de

their dirty business through the same channel.

deres beskidte foretning igennem den samme kanal.

This is when we see the birth of the transnational

Det er her vi ser fødslen af den tværnationale

arms organization Al Qaeda.

væbnet organisation Al-Qaeda.

This is an organization that can raise money across border.

Det er en organisation som kan rejse penge på tværs af grænserne.

But also that is able to carry out attacks

Men som også er i stand til at udføre angreb

in more than one country.

i mere end et land.

Now, deregulation also brought back

Deregulering bragte også

rogue economics.

slyngeløkonomien tilbage.

So what is rogue economics?

Had er slyngeløkonomi?

Rogue economics is a force which is constantly

Slyngeløkonomi er en kraft som konstant

lurking in the background of history.

lurer i baggrunden i historien.

It comes back at times of great transformation,

Det kommer tilbage på tidspunkter med stor forandring,

globalization being one of those transformations.

globalisering er en af de forandringer.

It is at this times in which

Det er på disse tidspunkter, at

politics actually loses control of the economy,

politikere faktisk mister kontrollen over økonomien

and the economy becomes a rogue force

og økonomien bliver en uberegnelig kraft

working against us.

som modarbejder os.

It has happened before in history.

Det er sket før.

It has happened with the fall of the Roman Empire.

Det skete ved faldet af det romerske rige.

It has happened with Industrial Revolution.

Det skete med industrialiseringen.

And it actually happened again, with the fall of the Berlin wall.

Og det skete faktisk igen, ved faldet af muren i Berlin.

Now, I calculated how big was this international

Jeg har regnet på hvor stort dette internationale

economic system composed by crime,

økonomiske system, etableret af kriminalitet,

terror, and illegal economy,

terror og ulovlig økonomi, var,

before 9-11.

før 9/11.

And it is a staggering 1.5 trillion dollars.

Og det er svimlende 1,5 billioner dollars.

It is trillions, it's not billions.

Det er billioner, ikke milliarder.

This is about twice the GDP of the United Kingdom,

Det er omkring det dobbelte af Storbritaniens BNP,

soon will be more,

snart vil det være mere,

considering where this country is going.

i betragtning af hvor landet er på vej hen.

(Laughter)

(Latter)

Now, until 9-11,

Indtil 9-11

the bulk of all this money

fløj hovedparten af de penge

flew into the U.S. economy

ind i den amerikanske økonomi

because the bulk of the money was denominated in U.S. dollars

fordi størstedelen af pengene var denomineret i amerikanske dollars

and the money laundering was taking place

og hvidvaskningen tog sted

inside the United States.

i USA.

The entry point, of course, of most of this money

Den fleste penge kom selvfølgelig

were the off-shore facilities.

fra aktiviteter udenfor USA.

So, this was a vital injection of cash

Det var en vital indsprøjtning af penge

into the U.S. economy.

direkte ind i den amerikanske økonomi.

Now, when I went to look at the figures of the U.S. money supply,

Da jeg så ville se på talene af den amerikanske pengemængde,

the U.S. money supply is the amount

den amerikanske pengemængde er den mængde

of dollars that the Federal Reserve

dollars som centralbanksystemet

prints every year

printer hvert år

in order to satisfy

med henblik på at opfylde

the increase in the demand for dollars,

den øgede efterspørgsel på dollars,

which, of course, reflects the growth

hvilket, selvfølgelig, afspejler væksten

of the economy.

af økonomien.

So, when I went to look at those figures, I noted that since the late 1960s

Da jeg ville se på disse tal, lod jeg mærke til at siden de sene 1960ere

a growing number of these dollars

havde et stigenede antal dollars

was actually leaving the United States,

faktisk forladt USA

never to come back.

og aldrig kommet tilbage.

These were money taken out

De er penge, som blev taget ud

in suitcases or in containers, in cash of course.

i kufferter eller containers, kontanter selvfølgelig.

These were money taken out by criminals and money launderers.

Det var penge som var taget ud, af kriminelle og hvidvaskere.

These were money taken out to fund

De penge var taget ud, for at støtte

the growth of the terror,

væksten af terror,

illegal and criminal economy.

ulovlig og kriminel økonomi.

So, you see, what is the relationship?

Kan du se hvordan det forholder sig?

The United States actually is a country

USA er i virkeligheden et land

that is the reserve currency of the world.

som er reservevaluta for verden.

What does it mean? That means that

Hvad betyder det? Det betyder, at

it has a privilege that other countries do not have.

det har et privilegium som ingen andre lande har.

It can borrow against the total amount of dollars

Det kan låne imod den totale mængde dollars

in circulation in the world.

der cirkulerer i verdenen.

This privilege is called seigniorage.

Dette privilegie kaldes møntningsgevinst.

No other country can do that.

Ingen andre lande kan gøre det.

All the other countries, for example the United Kingdom,

Alle andre lande, f.eks. England,

can borrow only against the amount of money

kan kun låne penge op imod den mængde penge

in circulation inside its own borders.

som cirkulerer indenfor egne grænser.

So, here is the implication of the relationship

Her er så konsekvenserne af forholdet

between the worlds of crime, terror, and illegal economy, and our economy.

mellem verdens kriminelle, terrorister og ulovlig økonomi, og vores økonomi.

The U.S. in the 1990s

I 1990erne lånte USA

was borrowing against the growth

imod væksten

of the terror, illegal and criminal economy.

af terror, ulovlig og kriminel økonomi.

This is how close we are with this world.

Det er så tæt vi er med denne verden.

Now, this situation changed, of course, after 9-11,

Selvfølgelig ændrede det sig efter 9/11

because George Bush launched the War on Terror.

fordi George Bush lancerede kampagnen "Kampen mod Terror."

Part of the War on Terror

En del af "Kampen mod Terror"

was the introduction of the Patriot Act.

var introduktionen af "Patriot Act."

Now, many of you know that the Patriot Act

Som mange af jer ved, er "Patriot Act"

is a legislation that greatly reduces

en lovgivning som reducerer

the liberties of Americans in order to protect them

friheden for amerikanerne, med henblik på at beskytte dem

against terrorism.

mod terrorisme.

But there is a section of the Patriot Act

Men der er et afsnit i "Patriot Act"

which refers specifically to finance.

som refererer specifikt til finans.

And it is, in fact, an anti-money-laundering legislation.

Og det er, faktisk, en anti-hvidvasknings lov.

What the Patriot Act did was

Hvad "Patriot Act" gjorde, var

to prohibit U.S. bank,

at forbyde banker i USA

and U.S.-registered foreign banks

og USA-registrerede udlandske banker

from doing any businesses with off-shore facilities.

i at lave foretning med offshore faciliteter.

It closed that door between the money laundering

Det lukkede den dør mellem hvidvaskningen

in dollars, and the U.S. economy.

af dollars og den amerikanske økonomi.

It also gave the U.S. monetary authorities

Det gav også USAs pengepolitiske myndigheder

the right to monitor any dollar transaction

ret til at overvåge alle dollars transaktioner

taking place anywhere in the world.

hvor som helst i verdenen.

Now, you can imagine what was the reaction of the international

Du kan vel forestille dig reaktionen fra

finance and banking.

den internationale finans- og bankverden.

All the bankers said to their clients,

Alle bankmænd sagde til deres kunder:

"Get out of the dollars and go and invest somewhere else."

"Kom ud af dollaren, og invester i noget andet."

Now, the Euro was a newly born currency

Nu var euroen en nyfødt valuta,

of great opportunity for business, and, of course, for investment.

en glimrende mulighed for foretning, og selvfølgelig, investering.

And this is what people did.

Og det var hvad folk gjorde.

Nobody wants the U.S. monetary authority

Ingen ville have USAs pengepolitiske myndighed

to check their relationship,

til at se deres forhold,

to monitor their relationship with their clientele.

overvåge deres forhold med deres klienter.

The same thing happened, of course,

Det samme skete, selvfølgelig,

in the world of crime and terror.

i verdenen af kriminalitet og terror.

People simply moved their money-laundering activities

Folk flyttede simpelthen deres hvisvasknings aktiviteter

away from the United States

væk fra USA

into Europe.

og ind i Europa.

Why did this happen? This happened because

Hvorfor skete det? Det skete fordi

the Patriot Act was a unilateral legislation.

"Patriot Act" er en ensidig lovgivning.

It was introduced only in the United States.

Det blev kun introduceret i USA.

And it was introduced only for the U.S. dollars.

Og den blev kun indført på amerikanske dollars.

In Europe, a similar legislation

I Europa, blev en lignende lovgivning

was not introduced.

ikke indført.

So, within six months

Så, indenfor seks måneder

Europe became the epicenter

var Europa blevet epicenter

of the money-laundering activities

af hvidvaskningsaktiviteter

of the world.

fra hele verdenen.

So, this is how incredible are the relationship

Det er så utroligt forholdet er

between the world of crime

mellem verdenen af kriminalitet,

and the world of terror,

verdenen af terror

and our own life.

og vores eget liv.

So, why did I tell you this story?

Hvorfor fortæller jeg jer denne historie?

I told you this story because you

Jeg fortalte denne historie, for I

must understand that there is a world

må forstå, at der er en verden

that goes well beyond the headlines of the newspapers,

som går langt ud over overskifterne på aviserne,

including the personal relationship that you have

inklusiv de personlige forhold du har

with friends and family.

med venner og familie.

You got to question everything that is told to you,

Du skal stille spørgsmål, ved alt du bliver fortalt

including what I just told you today.

også hvad jeg har fortalt jer i dag.

(Laughter)

(Latter)

This is the only way for you

Det er den eneste måde for jer

to step into the dark side, and have a look at it.

til at træde ind i mørket og se på det.

And believe me,

Og tro mig,

it's going to be scary.

det bliver meget skræmmende.

It's going to be frightful, but it's going to enlighten you.

Det bliver frygteligt, men det kommer til at oplyse dig.

And, above all, it's not going to be boring.

Og frem for alt, så bliver det ikke kedeligt.

(Laughter)

(Latter)

(Applause)

(Bifald)