Rory Stewart: Why democracy matters

Translator: Joseph Geni Reviewer: Morton Bast

譯者: 盧 曉天 審譯者: Sophie Wang

So little Billy goes to school,

有一天，小比利去上學

and he sits down and the teacher says,

老師問他

"What does your father do?"

"你爸爸是做什麼的？"

And little Billy says, "My father plays the piano

小比利說

in an opium den."

"爸爸在鴉片館裡彈鋼琴"

So the teacher rings up the parents, and says,

於是老師打電話給家長

"Very shocking story from little Billy today.

"今天小比利說"

Just heard that he claimed that you play the piano

"你在鴉片館裡彈鋼琴"

in an opium den."

"我實在是不敢相信"

And the father says, "I'm very sorry. Yes, it's true, I lied.

小比利的爸爸說， "真的非常抱歉，我的確撒了謊"

But how can I tell an eight-year-old boy

"但你要我怎麼向一個八歲大的男孩"

that his father is a politician?" (Laughter)

"坦承自己是個政治人物？"（笑聲）

Now, as a politician myself, standing in front of you,

身為一名政治人物， 現在我站在你們面前

or indeed, meeting any stranger anywhere in the world,

就像在世界各地 和不同的人會面一樣

when I eventually reveal the nature of my profession,

當我最終揭示我職業的性質

they look at me as though I'm somewhere between

人們會用一種奇怪的眼神看著我

a snake, a monkey and an iguana,

好像我是隻四不像

and through all of this, I feel, strongly,

我非常強烈地感覺到

that something is going wrong.

這有些不對勁

Four hundred years of maturing democracy,

我們的民主政治已經發展了四百年

colleagues in Parliament who seem to me, as individuals,

國會裡的那些同事，在我看來

reasonably impressive, an increasingly educated,

都是非常有魅力，受過高等教育

energetic, informed population, and yet

精力充沛且見識廣博的人

a deep, deep sense of disappointment.

但人民卻對我們失望透頂

My colleagues in Parliament include, in my new intake,

新一屆的議會中，我的同事包括

family doctors, businesspeople, professors,

家庭醫師、企業家、教授

distinguished economists, historians, writers,

著名經濟學家、歷史學家、作家

army officers ranging from colonels down to regimental sergeant majors.

和各級軍官，上至上校下至准尉

All of them, however, including myself, as we walk underneath

但所有人，包括我自己在內

those strange stone gargoyles just down the road,

都對現在的政治情勢感到不安

feel that we've become less than the sum of our parts,

感到膽顫心驚

feel as though we have become profoundly diminished.

如履薄冰

And this isn't just a problem in Britain.

這並不是英國才有的問題

It's a problem across the developing world,

這個問題普遍存在於

and in middle income countries too. In Jamaica,

開發中和中等收入國家

for example -- look at Jamaican members of Parliament,

以牙買加的國會議員為例

you meet them, and they're often people who are

他們通常是羅德學者

Rhodes Scholars, who've studied at Harvard or at Princeton,

畢業於哈佛或普林斯頓大學

and yet, you go down to downtown Kingston,

但是， 你到了金斯頓市中心（牙買加首都）

and you are looking at one of the most depressing sites

看到的卻是

that you can see in any middle-income country in the world:

在任何中等收入國家都能看到 最蕭條的景象

a dismal, depressing landscape

放眼望去

of burnt and half-abandoned buildings.

無數燒毀的房舍和半廢棄大樓

And this has been true for 30 years, and the handover

這樣的光景已經持續了30年

in 1979, 1980, between one Jamaican leader who was

1979年、1980年的權力交接時期

the son of a Rhodes Scholar and a Q.C. to another

領導人從一個羅德學者， 和皇室法律顧問的兒子

who'd done an economics doctorate at Harvard,

變成一個哈佛經濟學博士

over 800 people were killed in the streets

一樁樁牽涉毒品的暴行 仍然在街頭上演

in drug-related violence.

死亡人數高達八百人

Ten years ago, however, the promise of democracy

然而，十年前民主的承諾

seemed to be extraordinary. George W. Bush stood up

似乎很偉大

in his State of the Union address in 2003

小布希在2003年的國情咨文中表示

and said that democracy was the force that would beat

"民主政治"

most of the ills of the world. He said,

"是世界上多數問題的解藥"

because democratic governments respect their own people

因為民主政府尊重人民

and respect their neighbors, freedom will bring peace.

尊重鄰國，自由會帶來和平

Distinguished academics at the same time argued that

學者們同時認為

democracies had this incredible range of side benefits.

民主有超乎想像的附加價值

They would bring prosperity, security,

能帶來繁榮、安定

overcome sectarian violence,

消弭宗派之間的暴力

ensure that states would never again harbor terrorists.

並確保 國家永遠不再窩藏恐怖份子

Since then, what's happened?

但在那之後，情況又如何呢？

Well, what we've seen is the creation, in places like Iraq

我們可以看到，伊拉克和阿富汗

and Afghanistan, of democratic systems of government

成立的民主政府

which haven't had any of those side benefits.

卻無法享受上述的任何好處

In Afghanistan, for example, we haven't just had one election

舉例來說，我們在 阿富汗不只有一、兩次選舉

or two elections. We've gone through three elections,

阿富汗已經舉行了三次選舉， 有總統大選也有議會選舉

presidential and parliamentary. And what do we find?

結果呢？

Do we find a flourishing civil society, a vigorous rule of law

是否就此建立一個 繁榮昌盛，人人奉公守法

and good security? No. What we find in Afghanistan

和平安定的民主社會呢？ 並沒有，我們在阿富汗看到的是

is a judiciary that is weak and corrupt,

一個軟弱、腐敗的司法制度

a very limited civil society which is largely ineffective,

一個無能的公民社會

a media which is beginning to get onto its feet

媒體才剛起步

but a government that's deeply unpopular,

政府卻失去公信力

perceived as being deeply corrupt, and security

政權極度腐化

that is shocking, security that's terrible.

治安更是糟糕透頂

In Pakistan, in lots of sub-Saharan Africa,

在巴基斯坦和許多撒哈拉以南地區

again you can see democracy and elections are compatible

可以看到一些實行選舉制度的民主政權

with corrupt governments, with states that are unstable

仍嚴重腐化

and dangerous.

國家動盪不安

And when I have conversations with people, I remember

記得有一次

having a conversation, for example, in Iraq,

和伊拉克人民的對話中

with a community that asked me

有人問我

whether the riot we were seeing in front of us,

眼前這群暴民

this was a huge mob ransacking a provincial council building,

洗劫省議會大樓的暴動

was a sign of the new democracy.

是不是新民主政權的好兆頭？

The same, I felt, was true in almost every single one

在我造訪過的每一個發展中國家

of the middle and developing countries that I went to,

甚至於我自己的國家

and to some extent the same is true of us.

這樣的情況都是存在的

Well, what is the answer to this? Is the answer to just

那有什麼解決之道呢？

give up on the idea of democracy?

難道要就此放棄民主嗎？

Well, obviously not. It would be absurd

顯然，答案是否定的

if we were to engage again in the kind of operations

如果要把伊拉克和阿富汗

we were engaged in, in Iraq and Afghanistan

再次變回以前的模樣

if we were to suddenly find ourselves in a situation

如果我們突然意識到

in which we were imposing

我們推行的並非一套民主制度

anything other than a democratic system.

而是其他東西

Anything else would run contrary to our values,

其他和我們的價值觀，人民的意志

it would run contrary to the wishes of the people

和我們的利益背道而馳的東西

on the ground, it would run contrary to our interests.

那就會非常荒謬

I remember in Iraq, for example, that we went through

還記得我在伊拉克的時候

a period of feeling that we should delay democracy.

有一段時間，我們覺得 應該拖延民主的進程

We went through a period of feeling that the lesson learned

我們學到了波士尼亞的教訓

from Bosnia was that elections held too early

太早舉行選舉

enshrined sectarian violence, enshrined extremist parties,

反而助長宗派主義暴力， 和極端主義黨派的發展

so in Iraq in 2003 the decision was made,

所以 ，2003 年， 我們在伊拉克做出了決定

let's not have elections for two years. Let's invest in

那就是， 兩年內不進行選舉

voter education. Let's invest in democratization.

優先投入選民教育和民主化

The result was that I found stuck outside my office

結果就是， 我辦公室門外聚集了一群人

a huge crowd of people, this is actually a photograph

這張照片其實是在利比亞拍的

taken in Libya but I saw the same scene in Iraq

但和我在伊拉克看到的一模一樣

of people standing outside screaming for the elections,

人們在門外嚷嚷著要求選舉

and when I went out and said, "What is wrong

我一出去，他們就喊道

with the interim provincial council?

"臨時省議會怎麼了？"

What is wrong with the people that we have chosen?

"我們選出來的人哪裡出問題了？"

There is a Sunni sheikh, there's a Shiite sheikh,

"議會成員有一名遜尼派族長、一名什葉派族長"

there's the seven -- leaders of the seven major tribes,

"七大部落的七位酋長"

there's a Christian, there's a Sabian,

"一名基督徒、一名薩比教徒"

there are female representatives, there's every political party in this council,

"數名女性代表，和各黨派人士"

what's wrong with the people that we chose?"

"我們選出來的人到底哪裡出了問題?"

The answer came, "The problem isn't the people

我的解讀是， "問題不在於你們的人選"

that you chose. The problem is that you chose them."

"問題在於你們選了他們"

I have not met, in Afghanistan, in even the most

在阿富汗

remote community, anybody who does not want

即使是最偏遠的地區

a say in who governs them.

每一個人都想參與決定誰來統治他們

Most remote community, I have never met a villager

從來沒有人

who does not want a vote.

說他不想投票

So we need to acknowledge

所以我們要體認

that despite the dubious statistics, despite the fact that

即使數據顯示

84 percent of people in Britain feel politics is broken,

84%的英國人認為政治已死

despite the fact that when I was in Iraq, we did an opinion poll

即使我們在伊拉克做了一項民意調查

in 2003 and asked people what political systems they preferred,

在2003年， 我們要求民眾選擇他們喜歡的政治體系

and the answer came back that

結果

seven percent wanted the United States,

7%想要美國模式

five percent wanted France,

5%想要法國模式

three percent wanted Britain,

3%想要英國模式

and nearly 40 percent wanted Dubai, which is, after all,

卻有將近40%選擇了杜拜模式

not a democratic state at all but a relatively prosperous

阿拉伯聯合大公國 根本不是一個民主國家

minor monarchy, democracy is a thing of value

而是相對繁榮的君主制國家

for which we should be fighting. But in order to do so

民主， 是我們必須一同奮鬥的價值觀

we need to get away from instrumental arguments.

但首先，我們應該避免

We need to get away from saying democracy matters

整天把那些"民主的好處" 掛在嘴邊，同樣的

because of the other things it brings.

我們不該說

We need to get away from feeling, in the same way,

人權有很多好處

human rights matters because of the other things it brings,

婦權有很多好處

or women's rights matters for the other things it brings.

所以它們很重要

Why should we get away from those arguments?

為什麼不該這樣說呢？

Because they're very dangerous. If we set about saying,

因為這種論證很脆弱

for example, torture is wrong because it doesn't extract

舉個例子，酷刑是錯誤的， 因為它無法取得有利的資訊

good information, or we say, you need women's rights

或者說，我們需要婦女權利

because it stimulates economic growth by doubling the size of the work force,

因為它能提升勞動力，刺激經濟增長

you leave yourself open to the position where

最後，反而留下把柄

the government of North Korea can turn around and say,

這時候北韓政府就可以說

"Well actually, we're having a lot of success extracting

"事實上，我們正是以酷刑"

good information with our torture at the moment,"

"換取不少有利的資訊"

or the government of Saudi Arabia to say, "Well,

沙烏地阿拉伯政府也可以說

our economic growth's okay, thank you very much,

"謝謝關心，我們的經濟還可以"

considerably better than yours,

"可能還比你們好一點"

so maybe we don't need to go ahead with this program on women's rights."

"所以， 也許不需要推動婦權運動了"

The point about democracy is not instrumental.

民主的重要性， 不在於其本身的"好處"

It's not about the things that it brings.

也不是它帶來的利益

The point about democracy is not that it delivers

民主的重要性不在於它體現了

legitimate, effective, prosperous rule of law.

法律的正當性、有效性，和繁榮發展

It's not that it guarantees peace with itself or with its neighbors.

民主不能保證 一國及其鄰邦的安全

The point about democracy is intrinsic.

民主的奧義

Democracy matters because it reflects an idea of equality

在於它反映了平等的理念

and an idea of liberty. It reflects an idea of dignity,

自由的理念，以及人的尊嚴

the dignity of the individual, the idea that each individual

它體現了每個人都有平等的權利

should have an equal vote, an equal say,

用選票

in the formation of their government.

決定誰來組成政府

But if we're really to make democracy vigorous again,

但如果我們真的想讓民主復甦

if we're ready to revivify it, we need to get involved

我們需要

in a new project of the citizens and the politicians.

公民和政治人物的共同努力

Democracy is not simply a question of structures.

民主不單單是政權結構的問題

It is a state of mind. It is an activity.

它是一種思想狀態，也是一種行動

And part of that activity is honesty.

而誠實則是其中的一部分

After I speak to you today, I'm going on a radio program

今天演講結束後，我要去參加一個

called "Any Questions," and the thing you will have noticed

叫做"你問我答"的電台節目， 你們可能有發現

about politicians on these kinds of radio programs

參加這類節目的政治人物們

is that they never, ever say that they don't know the answer

永遠永遠都不會說"不知道"

to a question. It doesn't matter what it is.

不管是什麼樣的問題

If you ask about child tax credits, the future of the penguins

問兒童稅收抵免

in the south Antarctic, asked to hold forth on whether or not

問南極企鵝的未來

the developments in Chongqing contribute

問中國重慶的發展

to sustainable development in carbon capture,

或對可持續發展之炭的回收封存

and we will have an answer for you.

我們都有答案

We need to stop that, to stop pretending to be

我們必須停止這麼說

omniscient beings.

不要再假裝無所不知

Politicians also need to learn, occasionally, to say that

政治人物偶爾也要

certain things that voters want, certain things that voters

說一些選民想聽的話

have been promised, may be things

一些曾向選民承諾過的事

that we cannot deliver

可能是一些做不到的事

or perhaps that we feel we should not deliver.

或覺得不應該做

And the second thing we should do is understand

我們應該做的第二件事是

the genius of our societies.

理解這個社會的天才

Our societies have never been so educated, have never

我們的社會從來沒有 像現在這麼高的教育水準

been so energized, have never been so healthy,

從來沒有像現在這樣， 健康，充滿活力

have never known so much, cared so much,

人們從來沒有像現在這樣 知道這麼多，關心這麼多

or wanted to do so much, and it is a genius of the local.

需要這麼多， 這是整個社會的智慧結晶

One of the reasons why we're moving away

我們為何要離開

from banqueting halls such as the one in which we stand,

我們所在的宴會大廳？

banqueting halls with extraordinary images on the ceiling

看看天花板上耀眼的壁畫

of kings enthroned,

描繪著國王登基的場景

the entire drama played out here on this space,

這裡上演過各種各樣的戲碼

where the King of England had his head lopped off,

英國國王在這裡被砍頭

why we've moved from spaces like this, thrones like that,

為什麼我們要走出大廳， 走下王座

towards the town hall, is we're moving more and more

走進了現在的市政廳？

towards the energies of our people, and we need to tap that.

因為我們要開始關注人民的力量

That can mean different things in different countries.

改變的意義 對每一個國家來說不盡相同

In Britain, it could mean looking to the French,

對英國而言，這意味著

learning from the French,

向法國學習

getting directly elected mayors in place

學習法國公民社會體系

in a French commune system.

直接選舉市長的模式

In Afghanistan, it could have meant instead of concentrating

對阿富汗來說， 這意味著不再執著於

on the big presidential and parliamentary elections,

總統大選和議會選舉

we should have done what was in the Afghan constitution

首先，我們應該完成阿富汗的憲法

from the very beginning, which is to get direct local elections going

從當地直接選出省長市長開始

at a district level and elect people's provincial governors.

一步步推行民主

But for any of these things to work,

若要這些方法生效

the honesty in language, the local democracy,

誠實必須被放在首位

it's not just a question of what politicians do.

這不僅僅是政治人物的問題

It's a question of what the citizens do.

也是每個公民的問題

For politicians to be honest, the public needs to allow them to be honest,

公眾應該要求政治人物誠實， 他們才會變誠實

and the media, which mediates between the politicians

而在政治人物和公眾之間協調的媒體

and the public, needs to allow those politicians to be honest.

也應要求政治人物們必須誠實

If local democracy is to flourish, it is about the active

每個公民都享有充分知的權利

and informed engagement of every citizen.

並積極地參與當地民主建設， 民主才能夠蓬勃發展

In other words, if democracy is to be rebuilt,

換句話說，如果我們想要重塑民主

is to become again vigorous and vibrant,

讓它再次充滿活力

it is necessary not just for the public

不僅公眾需要學會

to learn to trust their politicians,

怎樣去相信他們的政治人物

but for the politicians to learn to trust the public.

政治人物也要學會 怎樣信任他們的民眾

Thank you very much indeed. (Applause)

謝謝各位！（掌聲）