Ethan Nadelmann: Why we need to end the War on Drugs

翻译人员: Twisted Meadows 校对人员: Helen Zhang

What has the War on Drugs done to the world?

"毒品战争"对世界有什么影响？

Look at the murder and mayhem in Mexico,

看看那些发生在墨西哥、中美洲

Central America, so many other parts of the planet,

和世界其他地方的谋杀和混乱。

the global black market estimated

看看全球每年约3000亿美元的黑市交易

at 300 billion dollars a year,

prisons packed in the United States and elsewhere,

看看美国和其他地方那些人满为患的监狱

police and military drawn into an unwinnable war

大量的警察和军队被牵扯进这场永远打不赢、

that violates basic rights, and ordinary citizens

而且侵犯基本人权的战争

just hope they don't get caught in the crossfire,

还有那些无辜的平民，乞求着不要被卷入剿毒行动的交火中

and meanwhile, more people using

与此同时，吸毒的人却越来越多

more drugs than ever.

It's my country's history with alcohol prohibition

这就像我的国家历史上的禁酒令

and Al Capone, times 50.

和艾尔·卡彭（禁酒令期间贩卖私酒的黑帮头目）的50倍规模重演

Which is why it's particularly galling to me

令我感到难堪的是，

as an American that we've been the driving force

我们美国人就是这个全球反毒战争的幕后推手

behind this global drug war.

Ask why so many countries criminalize

去问问为什么那么多国家

drugs they'd never heard of,

把他们听都没听过的药物列为非法

why the U.N. drug treaties emphasize

为什么联合国的药物条约

criminalization over health,

强调刑事定罪超过人们的健康？

even why most of the money worldwide

甚至为什么全世界大部分解决药物滥用的资金

for dealing with drug abuse goes not

都不用在研究改善药物的机构

to helping agencies but those that punish,

而是用于惩罚药物滥用

and you'll find the good old U.S. of A.

你会发现它们的答案就是——我们大美国

Why did we do this?

我们为什么这样做？

Some people, especially in Latin America,

有些人，尤其是拉丁美洲的人，

think it's not really about drugs.

认为这并不是真的关乎毒品

It's just a subterfuge for advancing

事实上这只是美国用来

the realpolitik interests of the U.S.

推进政治利益的托词

But by and large, that's not it.

但总的来说，又不完全是这样

We don't want gangsters and guerrillas

我们确实不希望，有黑帮和游击队

funded with illegal drug money

有来自非法毒品的资金支持

terrorizing and taking over other nations.

去恐吓和接管其他国家。

No, the fact is, America really is crazy

但，事实是，美国就像疯了一样

一旦谈到毒品，或者药物

when it comes to drugs.

I mean, don't forget, we're the ones who thought

我的意思是，不要忘了，我们就是那些

that we could prohibit alcohol.

以为自己可以禁酒的人。

So think about our global drug war

所以，不要把全球禁毒战争

not as any sort of rational policy,

想成是一个理性的政策

but as the international projection

而要把它想成是一个国家的精神病

of a domestic psychosis.

延伸到了国际上。

（掌声）

(Applause)

But here's the good news.

但这里还有个好消息

Now it's the Russians leading the Drug War and not us.

现在是俄罗斯在领导禁毒战争，而不是我们

Most politicians in my country

我们国家的大多数政客

want to roll back the Drug War now,

现在想从禁毒战争里退一步回来

put fewer people behind bars, not more,

让更少的人被卷入这场战争，而不是更多

and I'm proud to say as an American

我可以很自豪地说，作为一个美国人

that we now lead the world

我们现在正领导世界

in reforming marijuana policies.

改革大麻政策

It's now legal for medical purposes

现在只要是在合法的医疗目的下

in almost half our 50 states,

美国50个州里几乎一半的民众

millions of people can purchase their marijuana,

数以百万计的人都可以

their medicine, in government- licensed dispensaries,

从政府许可的药店里买到他们的大麻——他们的药物

and over half my fellow citizens now say it's time

还有超过一半的同胞们说，现在是时候

to legally regulate and tax marijuana

立法规范大麻和对其征税

more or less like alcohol.

就跟我们对酒水做的事一样

That's what Colorado and Washington are doing,

这正是科罗拉多州和华盛顿正在做的，

and Uruguay, and others are sure to follow.

还有乌拉圭，可以肯定其他地方也会跟着这么做

So that's what I do:

所以，这就是我在做的事：

work to end the Drug War.

致力于结束禁毒战争。

I think it all started growing up

我想，这一切是由于我成长在

in a fairly religious, moral family,

一个比较笃信宗教和注重道德的家庭

eldest son of a rabbi,

作为一个犹太教教士的长子

going off to university where I

当我去上大学时，

smoked some marijuana

我抽了一些大麻

and I liked it. (Laughter)

而且很喜欢。（笑声）

And I liked drinking too, but it was obvious

我也很喜欢喝酒，但是很显然

that alcohol was really the more dangerous of the two,

这两者中酒精确实更加危险，

but my friends and I could get busted

可是我和我的朋友是有可能

for smoking a joint.

因为吸食大麻而被抓的。

Now, that hypocrisy kept bugging me,

这个表里不一的概念不停地缠着我

so I wrote my Ph.D dissertation on international drug control.

所以我写的博士论文就是研究国际药物管制。

I talked my way into the State Department.

我想办法进入了政府部门

I got a security clearance.

我得到了安全许可

I interviewed hundreds of DEA and other law enforcement agents

我采访了数百名在欧洲和美洲等地工作的

all around Europe and the Americas,

药品管制局（EDA）和执法人员。

and I'd ask them,

我会问他们：

"What do you think the answer is?"

“你认为答案是什么？”

Well, in Latin America, they'd say to me,

好吧，在拉丁美洲，他们会跟我说，

"You can't really cut off the supply.

“你真的没办法切断供应。

The answer lies back in the U.S.,

答案在于美国，

in cutting off the demand."

在于切断需求。”

So then I go back home and I talk to people

于是我回到家乡，我问那些

involved in anti-drug efforts there, and they'd say,

参与禁毒工作的人，他们却说，

"You know, Ethan, you can't really cut off the demand.

“你知道吗，Ethan，你无法真正切断需求。

The answer lies over there. You've got to cut off the supply."

答案在那边。你必须得切断供应。”

Then I'd go and talk to the guys in customs

然后，我去跟海关那边的家伙聊

trying to stop drugs at the borders,

能否在边境阻止毒品进入。

and they'd say, "You're not going to stop it here.

他们说，“你不可能在这里把它堵住的。

The answer lies over there,

答案在那边，

in cutting off supply and demand."

你得切断供应和需求。”

And it hit me:

在那一刻，我终于明白了

Everybody involved in this

每一个参与其中的人

thought the answer lay in that area

都认为答案在别的领域

about which they knew the least.

而他们自己，对其知之甚少。

So that's when I started reading everything I could

于是我开始尽可能阅读一切

about psychoactive drugs: the history, the science,

关于精神药物的资料：它的历史、科学、

the politics, all of it,

政治…所有的一切。

and the more one read,

而读的越多，

the more it hit you how a thoughtful,

你就越会意识到，一个深思熟虑、

enlightened, intelligent approach took you over here,

有启发性、聪明的方向把你引向这里，

whereas the politics and laws of my country

而我们国家的政治和法律

were taking you over here.

却把你带到这里。

And that disparity struck me as this incredible

这悬殊的差异令我震惊

intellectual and moral puzzle.

这真是个令人难以置信的智力和道德难题。

There's probably never been

这世上可能从来不存在

a drug-free society.

一个没有毒品的社会。

Virtually every society

几乎每一个社会

has ingested psychoactive substances

都有使用精神药物

to deal with pain, increase our energy, socialize,

用来解决疼痛、提升精力、社交应酬、

even commune with God.

甚至是用来与神对话。

Our desire to alter our consciousness

我们这种对于知觉改变的渴望

may be as fundamental as our desires

可能和我们对食物、

for food, companionship and sex.

友谊、性的渴望一样基本。

So our true challenge

因此，我们真正的挑战

is to learn how to live with drugs

在于学会如何与精神药物共存

so they cause the least possible harm

从而使它造成的伤害最小

and in some cases the greatest possible benefit.

并且在某些情况下，带来最大的益处。

I'll tell you something else I learned,

让我告诉你们我学到的另一件事，

that the reason some drugs are legal and others not

之所以有些药物是合法的，有些则不是，

has almost nothing to do with science or health

这跟科学、健康或药物相应的风险

or the relative risk of drugs,

几乎没有任何关系；

and almost everything to do with who uses

而是跟谁在使用、

and who is perceived to use particular drugs.

或谁被视作在使用特定药物有关。

In the late 19th century,

在19世纪后期，

when most of the drugs that are now illegal were legal,

当大多数现在非法的药物都还是合法的时候，

the principal consumers of opiates in my country

我国和其他国家，鸦片的主要消费者

and others were middle-aged white women,

是中年白人妇女

using them to alleviate aches and pains

她们用鸦片来缓解疼痛

when few other analgesics were available.

当时很少有别的止痛药可用。

And nobody thought about criminalizing it back then

而且没人想过把它定为刑事犯罪，

because nobody wanted to put Grandma behind bars.

因为没有人希望把奶奶关进监狱。

But when hundreds of thousands of Chinese

但是，当成千上万的中国人

started showing up in my country,

开始出现在我的国家

working hard on the railroads and the mines

在铁路和矿山上卖力工作

and then kicking back in the evening

然后晚上放松一下，

just like they had in the old country

就像他们在故乡常做的那样，

with a few puffs on that opium pipe,

吸上几口大烟，

that's when you saw the first drug prohibition laws

这就是你所见到的第一条禁毒法令

in California and Nevada,

出现在加利福尼亚州和内华达州

driven by racist fears of Chinese

因为那些有种族歧视的人担心

transforming white women

中国人会把白人妇女

into opium-addicted sex slaves.

变成鸦片成瘾的性奴。

The first cocaine prohibition laws, similarly prompted

而第一条禁止可卡因的法律，

by racist fears of black men sniffing that white powder

也是由那些种族歧视的人提出的

and forgetting their proper place

他们怕黑人闻了那白色粉末之后

in Southern society.

会忘记自己在南方社会里真正的位置。

And the first marijuana prohibition laws,

还有第一条禁止大麻的法律，

all about fears of Mexican migrants

同样是源于对西部和西南部地区

in the West and the Southwest.

墨西哥移民的恐惧。

And what was true in my country,

这就是发生在我们国家真相

is true in so many others as well,

相信在很多别的地方也同样如此

with both the origins of these laws

那些法律的起源

and their implementation.

和它们的执行。

Put it this way,

换句话说，

and I exaggerate only slightly:

让我稍稍夸大一点，

If the principal smokers of cocaine

如果可卡因的主要吸食者

were affluent older white men

都是些有钱的白人老头

and the principal consumers of Viagra

而伟哥的主要消费者

were poor young black men,

都是些贫穷年轻的黑人男子

then smokable cocaine would be easy to get with a prescription from your doctor

那么，你将很容易地拿着医生的处方买到烟用可卡因

and selling Viagra would get you five to 10 years behind bars.

而出售伟哥会让你在牢里待上5到10年。

(Applause)

（掌声）

I used to be a professor teaching about this.

我曾是个教这方面知识的教授

Now I'm an activist, a human rights activist,

但现在，我是一个行动者，一名人权运动的积极分子

and what drives me is my shame

而背后驱动我的力量，是我的惭愧

at living in an otherwise great nation

我生活在一个原本很伟大的国家

that has less than five percent of the world's population

它有着不到世界5％的人口

but almost 25 percent of the world's incarcerated population.

监狱里却关着占世界总数25%的犯人

It's the people I meet who have lost someone

我遇到这样的人：他们曾因为

they love to drug-related violence or prison

与毒品有关的暴力事件、监禁、吸食过量或艾滋病

or overdose or AIDS

而失去了他们所爱的人

because our drug policies emphasize

这都是因为我们的毒品政策

criminalization over health.

它们强调刑责超过人们健康。

It's good people who have lost their jobs,

他们是好人，他们失去了工作、

their homes, their freedom, even their children

房子、自由、甚至他们的孩子

to the state, not because they hurt anyone

到了这般田地，不是因为他们伤害了谁

but solely because they chose to use one drug

而仅仅是因为他们选择了某一种药物，

instead of another.

而不是另一种。

So is legalization the answer?

所以，“合法化”是我们寻找的答案吗？

On that, I'm torn:

关于这一点，我非常为难：

three days a week I think yes, three days a week I think no,

每周有三天里我觉得是这样的，还有三天我觉得不是

and on Sundays I'm agnostic.

然后在周末，我是“不可知论者”。

But since today is Tuesday,

但既然今天是星期二，

let me just say that legally regulating and taxing

就让我说：只要合法地管制并对其征税

most of the drugs that are now criminalized

大多数现在被列为非法的精神药物

would radically reduce the crime, violence,

会显著地减少犯罪、暴力、

corruption and black markets,

贪污、黑市、

and the problems of adulterated and unregulated drugs,

以及掺假和不受管制的药物问题，

and improve public safety,

并且提高公共安全

and allow taxpayer resources to be developed

还能使纳税人的资源

to more useful purposes.

被投入到更有用的地方。

I mean, look, the markets in marijuana, cocaine,

我的意思是，你看，大麻、可卡因、

heroin and methamphetamine

海洛因和甲基苯丙胺的市场，

are global commodities markets

是全球性的商品市场

just like the global markets in alcohol, tobacco,

就跟全球的酒精、烟草、

coffee, sugar, and so many other things.

咖啡、糖、以及许多其他的市场一样。

Where there is a demand,

只要哪里有需求，

there will be a supply.

哪里就会有供应。

Knock out one source and another

消灭了一个源头，

inevitably emerges.

另一个源头还是会不可避免地出现。

People tend to think of prohibition

人们倾向于认为：禁止

as the ultimate form of regulation

就是最终极的管制方案。

when in fact it represents the abdication of regulation

而事实上，它代表的是放弃管制，

with criminals filling the void.

并由罪犯去填补这个空缺。

Which is why putting criminal laws and police

这就是为什么要把刑法和警察放在

front and center in trying to control

最前线和最核心的位置来试图控制

a dynamic global commodities market

一个瞬息万变的全球性商品市场

is a recipe for disaster.

这就是灾祸之因。

And what we really need to do

而我们真正需要做的

is to bring the underground drug markets

是把地下的毒品交易市场

as much as possible aboveground

尽可能带回地面上来

and regulate them as intelligently as we can

并且尽我们所能地，明智地，规范它

to minimize both the harms of drugs

以减少药物的伤害

and the harms of prohibitionist policies.

和禁毒政策带来的危害。

Now, with marijuana, that obviously means

这样，当我们提到大麻，显然指的是

legally regulating and taxing it like alcohol.

像酒精一样的依法管制和征税。

The benefits of doing so are enormous, the risks minimal.

这样做的好处是巨大的，而风险极小。

Will more people use marijuana?

会有更多的人使用大麻吗？

Maybe, but it's not going to be young people,

也许吧，但年轻人不会这样

because it's not going to be legalized for them,

因为大麻不会对他们合法化，

and quite frankly, they already have

而且坦白地说，他们已经有

the best access to marijuana.

最好的获取大麻的途径了。

I think it's going to be older people.

我认为这将会是上了年纪的人。

It's going to be people in their 40s and 60s

大概40多岁、60多岁

and 80s who find they prefer a little marijuana

和80多岁的人，他们发现自己宁愿吸点大麻

to that drink in the evening or the sleeping pill

来代替晚上喝的一杯酒或者吃的一片安眠药

or that it helps with their arthritis or diabetes

或者是用它来舒缓他们的关节炎或糖尿病

or maybe helps spice up a long-term marriage. (Laughter)

又或者，用它来给老夫老妻的婚姻生活增添点情趣。（笑声）

And that just might be a net public health benefit.

所以这对公众健康或许也有一些益处。

As for the other drugs,

至于其他药物，

look at Portugal, where nobody goes to jail

看看葡萄牙，在那儿没人会因为

for possessing drugs,

拥有毒品被抓去坐牢

and the government's made a serious commitment

政府作出了郑重承诺，

to treating addiction as a health issue.

会把上瘾作为一个健康问题来治疗。

Look at Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands,

再看看瑞士、德国、荷兰、

Denmark, England, where people who have

丹麦和英国，在这些地方

been addicted to heroin for many years

那些对海洛因上瘾多年，

and repeatedly tried to quit and failed

多次试图戒毒但失败的人，

can get pharmaceutical heroin and helping services

可以从医疗诊所获得药用海洛因和援助服务，

in medical clinics, and the results are in:

而这样做的成果是：

Illegal drug abuse and disease

非法药物的滥用、疾病、

and overdoses and crime and arrests all go down,

服药过量、犯罪和拘捕 统统下降，

health and well-being improve,

健康和福祉提高，

taxpayers benefit,

纳税人受益，

and many drug users even put their addictions behind them.

许多吸毒者甚至戒掉了毒瘾。

Look at New Zealand, which recently enacted a law

看看新西兰，他们最近通过了一项法律

allowing certain recreational drugs to be sold legally

允许某些软性毒品的合法销售

provided their safety had been established.

只要这些药品的安全性已经得到确认。

Look here in Brazil, and some other countries,

再来看看巴西，和一些别的国家，

where a remarkable psychoactive substance,

他们有一种引人注目的精神类药物，

ayahuasca, can be legally bought and consumed

死藤水（用南美一种藤本植物的根泡制而成有致幻作用的饮料），

provided it's done so within a religious context.

可以被合法地购买和服用

只要是在宗教背景下。

Look in Bolivia and Peru,

看看玻利维亚和秘鲁，

where all sorts of products made from the coca leaf,

各种由古柯叶制成的产品，

the source of cocaine,

（古柯叶）就是可卡因的原料

are sold legally over the counter

都在柜台上合法地销售

with no apparent harm to people's public health.

这样做并没有对人们的健康带来明显的危害。

I mean, don't forget, Coca-Cola had cocaine in it until 1900,

我要说，别忘了，可口可乐直到1900年配方里都含有可卡因，

and so far as we know was no more addictive

但到正如大家所知，

than Coca-Cola is today.

没有人觉得它比现在的可口可乐更让人上瘾。

Conversely, think about cigarettes:

相反，想想香烟：

Nothing can both hook you and kill you like cigarettes.

没有什么比香烟更令你上瘾，更让你加速死亡了。

When researchers ask heroin addicts

当研究人员问海洛因成瘾者，他们最难戒掉的是什么

what's the toughest drug to quit, most say cigarettes.

大多数人说是香烟。

Yet in my country and many others,

而在我的国家和许多其他国家，

half of all the people who were ever addicted

那半数曾对香烟上瘾、

to cigarettes have quit

后来成功戒烟的人

without anyone being arrested or put in jail

都没有被逮捕或投入监狱

or sent to a "treatment program"

或者被检察官和法官

by a prosecutor or a judge.

送去「戒毒所」。

What did it were higher taxes

带来这种成功的原因是高税收，

and time and place restrictions on sale and use

对销售、使用的时间和空间的限制，

and effective anti-smoking campaigns.

以及有效的反吸烟运动。

Now, could we reduce smoking even more

现在，我们可以通过立法完全禁止吸烟

by making it totally illegal? Probably.

来进一步减少吸烟吗？ 或许吧。

But just imagine the drug war nightmare

但不妨想想，可能导致的类似

that would result.

禁毒战争一样的噩梦。

So the challenges we face today

所以，我们今天面临的挑战

are twofold.

有两方面。

The first is the policy challenge

第一，是政策挑战

of designing and implementing alternatives

我们要设计和实施有效的替代方案，

to ineffective prohibitionist policies,

来取代无效的禁令

even as we need to get better at regulating

同时我们还需要更好地规范它

and living with the drugs that are now legal.

学会跟这些（现在合法的）药物共存。

But the second challenge is tougher,

但第二个挑战就困难了

because it's about us.

因为它是关于我们的。

The obstacles to reform lie not just out there

对这种改革的阻碍不只是存在于

in the power of the prison industrial complex

监狱工业体系的复杂状况和力量

or other vested interests that want to keep things

或其他想保住自己既得利益的人

the way they are,

希望一切保持一直以来的样子

but within each and every one of us.

而最主要是在于我们每个人。

It's our fears and our lack of knowledge

我们的恐惧，我们的缺乏了解

and imagination that stands in the way of real reform.

还有我们的想象力 这些才是改革路上真正的阻碍。

And ultimately, I think that boils down to the kids,

从根本上来说，我认为这都是为了孩子，

and to every parent's desire to put our baby in a bubble,

因为每一位家长都希望自己的宝贝被保护在一个泡泡里，

and the fear that somehow drugs will pierce that bubble

我们害怕毒品会以某种形式刺破这个泡泡

and put our young ones at risk.

把我们的年轻一辈置于危险之中。

In fact, sometimes it seems like the entire

其实，有时候看起来

War on Drugs gets justified

整个禁毒战争好像很正当

as one great big child protection act,

因为它是一个伟大的大型的儿童保护行动

which any young person can tell you it's not.

然而任何一个年轻人都会告诉你，事实并非如此。

So here's what I say to teenagers.

因此，这里我要对年轻人说：

First, don't do drugs.

第一，不要吸毒。

Second, don't do drugs.

第二，不要吸毒。

Third, if you do do drugs,

第三，如果你非要吸毒，

there's some things I want you to know,

有一些事情是我想让你知道的，

because my bottom line as your parent is,

因为我作为父母能够接受的底线是：

come home safely at the end of the night

每天晚上平平安安地回到家里，

and grow up and lead a healthy and good adulthood.

要好好长大，过一种健康的、美好的成年生活。

That's my drug education mantra: Safety first.

这是我的禁毒教育口头禅：安全第一。

So this is what I've dedicated my life to,

所以，这就是我一生致力于做的事

to building an organization and a movement

要建立一个组织，推动一个运动

of people who believe we need to turn our backs

让人们相信

我们应该转身放弃以前失败的禁令

on the failed prohibitions of the past

and embrace new drug policies grounded in science,

去接受一个基于科学、爱心、健康和尊重人权的新药物政策

compassion, health and human rights,

where people who come from across the political spectrum

我们的成员来自不同的政治派别

and every other spectrum as well,

拥有各种不同的背景

where people who love our drugs,

有喜欢毒品的人

people who hate drugs,

有痛恨毒品的人

and people who don't give a damn about drugs,

还有根本不在乎毒品的人

but every one of us believes that this War on Drugs,

但我们每个人都相信：禁毒战争

this backward, heartless, disastrous War on Drugs,

这个落后的、无情的、灾难性的禁毒战争

has got to end.

必须得结束了。

Thank you.

谢谢

(Applause)

（掌声）

Thank you. Thank you.

谢谢。谢谢。

Chris Anderson: Ethan,

Chris Anderson：Ethan，

congrats — quite the reaction.

恭喜——反应相当的热烈。

That was a powerful talk.

真是个震撼的演讲。

Not quite a complete standing O, though,

虽然不是所有人都起立鼓掌了

and I'm guessing that some people here

而我猜测，在场观看的一些人

and maybe a few watching online,

或者一些在网络上在线观看的人里

maybe someone knows a teenager or a friend

会有人认识一些青少年或朋友

or whatever who got sick,

或者不论是因毒品而生病

maybe died from some drug overdose.

还是因为过量用药而去世

I'm sure you've had these people approach you before.

我敢肯定，之前有这些人找过你

What do you say to them?

你是怎样跟他们说的？

Ethan Nadelmann: Chris, the most amazing thing that's happened of late

Ethan Nadelmann：Chris，最近所发生最让人惊喜的事

is that I've met a growing number of people

就是我碰到越来越多的人

who have actually lost a sibling or a child

那些失去兄弟姐妹或者子女

to a drug overdose,

因为亲人滥用药物的人

and 10 years ago, those people just wanted to say,

在10年前的话，他们只是会说：

let's line up all the drug dealers and shoot them

把毒贩们排成一排拉出去枪毙了吧，

and that will solve it.

这就会解决问题。

And what they've come to understand

而现在他们渐渐明白的是

is that the Drug War did nothing to protect their kids.

禁毒战争并没有保护到他们的孩子。

If anything, it made it more likely

如果禁毒真的做了什么，那就是

that those kids were put at risk.

让这些孩子们更容易处于危险之中。

And so they're now becoming part of this

因此，他们现在成为了这个

drug policy reform movement.

药物政策改革运动的一分子。

There's other people who have kids,

还有一些家长，有多个孩子

one's addicted to alcohol, the other one's addicted to cocaine or heroin,

一个孩子嗜酒，另一个对可卡因或海洛因上瘾

and they ask themselves the question:

他们问自己这样一个问题：

Why does this kid get to take one step at a time

“为什么一个孩子可以一步一步

and try to get better

努力变得更好；

and that one's got to deal with jail

而另一个则要去面对监狱、

and police and criminals all the time?

警察和罪犯呢？“

So everybody's understanding,

因此大家现在理解了，

the Drug War's not protecting anybody.

禁毒战争并没有保护任何人。

CA: Certainly in the U.S., you've got political gridlock

CA：显然在美国，在大多数问题上

on most issues.

都存在政治僵局。

Is there any realistic chance of anything

这些议题在5年内

actually shifting on this issue in the next five years?

取得现实进展的机会大吗？

EN: I'd say it's quite remarkable. I'm getting all these calls

EN：我得说这是非常引人注目的。我总会接到一些电话

from journalists now who are saying to me,

记者现在会跟我说：

"Ethan, it seems like the only two issues

“Ethan，看起来如今在美国政治上

advancing politically in America right now

唯一在进步的两个议题

are marijuana law reform and gay marriage.

就是大麻政策改革和同性恋婚姻了。

What are you doing right?"

你现在在做什么吗？“

And then you're looking at bipartisanship breaking out

然后你会看到两党打破隔阂开始合作

with, actually, Republicans in the Congress

通过…实际上，共和党努力在国会

and state legislatures allowing bills to be enacted

和各州议会让法案颁布，

with majority Democratic support,

（议案的通过）有赖于大多数民主党议员的支持

so we've gone from being sort of the third rail,

所以，毒品这个议题，从一个不能踩的雷区，

the most fearful issue of American politics,

美国政治中最可怕的问题，

to becoming one of the most successful.

变成了最成功的议案之一。

CA: Ethan, thank you so much for coming to TEDGlobal. EN: Chris, thanks so much.

CA：Ethan，非常感谢你来到TED Global

CA: Thank you. EN: Thank you. (Applause)

EN：Chris，非常感谢。