Pavan Sukhdev: Put a value on nature!

116,601 views ・ 2011-12-14

TED


请双击下面的英文字幕来播放视频。

翻译人员: Chencheng Guo 校对人员: Angelia King
00:15
I'm here to talk to you
0
15260
2000
我今天来谈谈
00:17
about the economic invisibility of nature.
1
17260
2000
自然界那些潜在的经济成本消耗。
00:19
The bad news
2
19260
2000
坏消息在于,
00:21
is that mother nature's back office isn't working yet,
3
21260
2000
大自然尚未启动后台结算,
00:23
so those invoices don't get issued.
4
23260
2000
因此我们对这些经济成本消耗一无所知。
00:25
But we need to do something about this problem.
5
25260
3000
但我们需要对这个问题采取行动。
00:28
I began my life as a markets professional
6
28260
3000
我的工作是研究消费市场,
00:31
and continued to take an interest,
7
31260
3000
现在仍对这个领域充满兴趣,
00:34
but most of my recent effort
8
34260
2000
而我最近大部分时间
00:36
has been looking at the value
9
36260
2000
都致力于研究那些
00:38
of what comes to human beings from nature,
10
38260
2000
由大自然带给人类
00:40
and which doesn't get priced by the markets.
11
40260
3000
且其价值未被纳入市场范畴的资源。
00:43
A project called TEEB was started in 2007,
12
43260
3000
2007年,G8+5国家(G8的八个国家+5个新兴经济体国家)的环境部长们
00:46
and it was launched by a group of environment ministers
13
46260
3000
发起了一个名为TEEB(The Economics of Ecosystem and Biodiversity生态系统与生物多样性经济学)
00:49
of the G8+5.
14
49260
2000
的项目。
00:51
And their basic inspiration
15
51260
2000
激发他们发起这个项目的灵感
00:53
was a stern review of Lord Stern.
16
53260
2000
来源于Stern爵士(Nicholas Stern)一篇严肃的评论文章
00:55
They asked themselves a question:
17
55260
2000
他们提出了这样一个问题:
00:57
If economics could make such a convincing case
18
57260
2000
如果从经济学角度考虑问题
00:59
for early action on climate change,
19
59260
2000
能够说服人们在气候变化的初期采取相应措施,
01:01
well why can't the same be done for conservation?
20
61260
2000
那么在谈论气候问题时引进经济学作为考虑因素能不能达到同样效果呢?
01:03
Why can't an equivalent case be made
21
63260
2000
同样的思维方式能否被运用到
01:05
for nature?
22
65260
2000
思考人与自然的关系上?
01:07
And the answer is: Yeah, it can.
23
67260
2000
答案是肯定的。
01:09
But it's not that straightforward.
24
69260
2000
然而,这一答案并非显而易见就能得到。
01:11
Biodiversity, the living fabric of this planet, is not a gas.
25
71260
3000
作为这个星球的生命构造,生物多样性并不是凭空存在的。
01:14
It exists in many layers,
26
74260
2000
它存在于多个层面中:
01:16
ecosystems, species and genes across many scales --
27
76260
3000
各个规模的生态系统,物种,基因---
01:19
international, national, local, community --
28
79260
3000
无论是国际间的,民族间的,本地的,还是社区内的---
01:22
and doing for nature
29
82260
2000
而且像Stern爵士和他的团队那样去研究大自然
01:24
what Lord Stern and his team did for nature is not that easy.
30
84260
3000
绝非易事。
01:27
And yet, we began.
31
87260
2000
尽管有种种困难,我们还是开始着手于这个项目。
01:29
We began the project with an interim report,
32
89260
2000
我们从一篇中期报告着手,
01:31
which quickly pulled together
33
91260
2000
里面汇集了
01:33
a lot of information that had been collected on the subject
34
93260
3000
许多研究者搜集的
01:36
by many, many researchers.
35
96260
2000
关于生态系统与生物多样性经济话题的信息。
01:38
And amongst our compiled results
36
98260
2000
我们从汇集的资料中
01:40
was the startling revelation
37
100260
2000
发现了这么一个让人惊讶的事实--
01:42
that, in fact, we were losing natural capital --
38
102260
3000
自然资产正在逐渐流失
01:45
the benefits that flow from nature to us.
39
105260
2000
--而这资产正是大自然馈赠给我们的。
01:47
We were losing it at an extraordinary rate --
40
107260
2000
它以极快的速度流失--
01:49
in fact, of the order of two to four trillion dollars-worth
41
109260
3000
事实上,这是一笔价值两到四万亿美金的
01:52
of natural capital.
42
112260
3000
自然资产。
01:55
This came out in 2008,
43
115260
2000
这个现象发生在2008年,
01:57
which was, of course, around the time that the banking crisis had shown
44
117260
2000
大约在同一时期,银行业的危机显示
01:59
that we had lost financial capital
45
119260
2000
我们正在损失一笔价值
02:01
of the order of two and a half trillion dollars.
46
121260
2000
2.5万亿美金的金融资产。
02:03
So this was comparable in size to that kind of loss.
47
123260
3000
因此,自然资产的流失大致和08年银行业危机造成的损失量处于同一级别。
02:06
We then have gone on since
48
126260
2000
从那时起,
02:08
to present for [the] international community,
49
128260
3000
我们开始为国际性团体、
02:11
for governments,
50
131260
2000
为政府、
02:13
for local governments and for business
51
133260
2000
为地方政府和商业机构、
02:15
and for people, for you and me,
52
135260
2000
以及为和你我一样的普通民众
02:17
a whole slew of reports, which were presented at the U.N. last year,
53
137260
3000
准备了一篇详尽的报告,并在去年的联合国会议上做了陈述,
02:20
which address the economic invisibility of nature
54
140260
3000
报告中提出了自然界潜在的经济因素,
02:23
and describe what can be done to solve it.
55
143260
2000
并陈述了一些解决方法。
02:25
What is this about?
56
145260
2000
什么是“自然界潜在的经济因素”呢?
02:27
A picture that you're familiar with --
57
147260
2000
举个大家都熟悉的例子--
02:29
the Amazon rainforests.
58
149260
2000
亚马孙雨林。
02:31
It's a massive store of carbon, it's an amazing store of biodiversity,
59
151260
3000
它是巨大的碳储藏室,是让人叹为观止的生物多样性储藏室,
02:34
but what people don't really know
60
154260
2000
但人们并不真正明白
02:36
is this also is a rain factory.
61
156260
2000
它也是一个降雨工厂。
02:38
Because the northeastern trade winds,
62
158260
2000
因为东北信风
02:40
as they go over the Amazonas,
63
160260
2000
在越过亚马孙雨林时,
02:42
effectively gather the water vapor.
64
162260
2000
高效地聚集并带走了水蒸汽。
02:44
Something like 20 billion tons per day of water vapor
65
164260
3000
每天大约有200亿吨水蒸汽
02:47
is sucked up by the northeastern trade winds,
66
167260
3000
由东北信风吸收并带走,
02:50
and eventually precipitates in the form of rain
67
170260
3000
最终在拉普拉塔河盆地上
02:53
across the La Plata Basin.
68
173260
2000
形成降雨。
02:55
This rainfall cycle, this rainfall factory,
69
175260
3000
这个雨水循环,这个降雨工厂,
02:58
effectively feeds an agricultural economy
70
178260
2000
高效地滋养了拉丁美洲的农业经济,
03:00
of the order of 240 billion dollars-worth
71
180260
2000
而这一降水过程的经济价值
03:02
in Latin America.
72
182260
2000
高达2千4百亿美元。
03:04
But the question arises: Okay, so how much
73
184260
3000
问题来了:既然如此,那么
03:07
do Uruguay, Paraguay, Argentina
74
187260
2000
乌拉圭、巴拉圭、阿根廷
03:09
and indeed the state of Mato Grosso in Brazil
75
189260
3000
以及巴西的马托格罗索州
03:12
pay for that vital input to that economy
76
192260
3000
为这些对它们经济产生至关重要影响的降水
03:15
to the state of Amazonas, which produces that rainfall?
77
195260
3000
向生产降水的亚马孙地区诸州支付多少费用呢?
03:18
And the answer is zilch,
78
198260
2000
答案是:零,
03:20
exactly zero.
79
200260
2000
一分钱也没付。
03:22
That's the economic invisibility of nature.
80
202260
2000
这就是“自然界潜在的经济因素”。
03:24
That can't keep going on,
81
204260
2000
我们不能让这种现象持续下去,
03:26
because economic incentives and disincentives are very powerful.
82
206260
3000
因为经济方面的正向以及反向激励有着显著效果。
03:29
Economics has become the currency of policy.
83
209260
2000
经济学已经成为政策的筹码。
03:31
And unless we address
84
211260
2000
除非我们提出
03:33
this invisibility,
85
213260
2000
潜在的经济成本这一议题,
03:35
we are going to get the results that we are seeing,
86
215260
2000
否则我们将得到我们现在所看到的后果--
03:37
which is a gradual degradation and loss
87
217260
3000
宝贵自然资产的
03:40
of this valuable natural asset.
88
220260
2000
逐渐退化和消失。
03:42
It's not just about the Amazonas, or indeed about rainforests.
89
222260
3000
这不仅仅关于亚马孙地区,还关乎雨林本身。
03:45
No matter what level you look at,
90
225260
2000
无论你从哪个层面看,
03:47
whether it's at the ecosystem level or at the species level or at the genetic level,
91
227260
3000
从生态系统层面也好、从物种层面、抑或从基因层面看也罢,
03:50
we see the same problem again and again.
92
230260
3000
同样的问题一再显现。
03:53
So rainfall cycle and water regulation by rainforests
93
233260
3000
因此,降水循环和雨林中的水份保持
03:56
at an ecosystem level.
94
236260
2000
是位于整个生态系统层面的问题。
03:58
At the species level,
95
238260
2000
从物种层面来说,
04:00
it's been estimated that insect-based pollination,
96
240260
2000
昆虫的授粉过程,
04:02
bees pollinating fruit and so on,
97
242260
3000
例如蜜蜂给水果授粉等,
04:05
is something like 190 billion dollars-worth.
98
245260
3000
据估计大约含有1.9千亿美元的经济价值。
04:08
That's something like eight percent
99
248260
2000
这相当于全球农业总产量
04:10
of the total agricultural output globally.
100
250260
4000
的8%左右。
04:14
It completely passes below the radar screen.
101
254260
2000
这一过程完全未被有意识地侦测到。
04:16
But when did a bee actually ever give you an invoice?
102
256260
3000
蜜蜂什么时候为这一过程向你要过钱呢?
04:19
Or for that matter, if you look at the genetic level,
103
259260
3000
还有,如果从基因层面来看,
04:22
60 percent of medicines were prospected,
104
262260
3000
60%的药物都是最早在雨林或是暗礁处
04:25
were found first as molecules in a rainforest or a reef.
105
265260
3000
作为分子而被勘查、发现的。
04:28
Once again, most of that doesn't get paid.
106
268260
2000
同样地,人类没有为这些自然资源付过一分钱。
04:30
And that brings me to another aspect of this,
107
270260
2000
因此我开始从另一角度看这个话题:
04:32
which is, to whom should this get paid?
108
272260
3000
我们该向谁付这笔钱?
04:35
That genetic material
109
275260
2000
这些基因方面的材料
04:37
probably belonged, if it could belong to anyone,
110
277260
2000
也许应该属于(如果它们能够属于某些人的话)
04:39
to a local community of poor people
111
279260
2000
当地社区的穷人--
04:41
who parted with the knowledge that helped the researchers to find the molecule,
112
281260
3000
他们用自己的知识帮助研究人员找到这些
04:44
which then became the medicine.
113
284260
2000
最终成为药物的分子。
04:46
They were the ones that didn't get paid.
114
286260
2000
他们从未为此得到过报酬。
04:48
And if you look at the species level,
115
288260
3000
如果从物种层面看,
04:51
you saw about fish.
116
291260
2000
鱼类是个很好的例子。
04:53
Today, the depletion of ocean fisheries is so significant
117
293260
3000
如今,对于海洋渔场的消耗已经大到
04:56
that effectively it is effecting the ability of the poor,
118
296260
4000
对于那些穷人、
05:00
the artisanal fisher folk
119
300260
2000
深谙捕鱼技艺并把它作为一门手艺的人、
05:02
and those who fish for their own livelihoods,
120
302260
2000
以及那些为了养活家人而捕鱼的人
05:04
to feed their families.
121
304260
2000
产生了严重影响。
05:06
Something like a billion people depend on fish,
122
306260
2000
大约十亿人口的生活依赖于鱼类,
05:08
the quantity of fish in the oceans.
123
308260
2000
依赖于海洋中鱼的数量。
05:10
A billion people depend on fish
124
310260
3000
十亿人把鱼作为他们
05:13
for their main source for animal protein.
125
313260
2000
摄入动物蛋白的主要来源。
05:15
And at this rate at which we are losing fish,
126
315260
2000
鱼类的数量如此迅速的减少,
05:17
it is a human problem of enormous dimensions,
127
317260
2000
构成了一个多维度的问题,
05:19
a health problem
128
319260
2000
一个我们从未遇见过的
05:21
of a kind we haven't seen before.
129
321260
3000
健康问题。
05:24
And finally, at the ecosystem level,
130
324260
2000
最后,从生态系统层面看,
05:26
whether it's flood prevention or drought control provided by the forests,
131
326260
3000
无论是从森林提供的防洪抗旱功能来说,
05:29
or whether it is the ability of poor farmers
132
329260
2000
从并不富裕的农民们
05:31
to go out and gather leaf litter
133
331260
2000
到森林中为他们的牛羊
05:33
for their cattle and goats,
134
333260
2000
搜集枯树叶作为饲料来说,
05:35
or whether it's the ability of their wives
135
335260
2000
还是从农妇们外出到森林中
05:37
to go and collect fuel wood from the forest,
136
337260
2000
搜集用于烤火的木头来说,
05:39
it is actually the poor
137
339260
2000
穷人们实际上更加依赖于
05:41
who depend most on these ecosystem services.
138
341260
2000
生态系统所提供的资源。
05:43
We did estimates in our study
139
343260
2000
我们在研究中做了如下估计:
05:45
that for countries like Brazil, India and Indonesia,
140
345260
3000
对于像巴西、印度、印尼这样的国家,
05:48
even though ecosystem services --
141
348260
2000
即使生态系统提供了充足资源--
05:50
these benefits that flow from nature to humanity for free --
142
350260
3000
这些是人类可免费从大自然获取的--
05:53
they're not very big in percentage terms of GDP --
143
353260
2000
从国内生产总值(GDP)来看,也没占多大比例--
05:55
two, four, eight, 10, 15 percent --
144
355260
2000
大约2%,4%,8%,10%,15%左右--
05:57
but in these countries, if we measure how much they're worth to the poor,
145
357260
3000
但在这些国家中,如果我们来看自然资源对于穷人来说占生产总值的比例,
06:00
the answers are more like
146
360260
2000
那么,这个答案更加可能是
06:02
45 percent, 75 percent, 90 percent.
147
362260
3000
45%,75%,90%。
06:05
That's the difference.
148
365260
2000
这就是差距所在。
06:07
Because these are important benefits for the poor.
149
367260
3000
因为对于穷人来说,自然资源是一项很重要的福利。
06:10
And you can't really have a proper model for development
150
370260
3000
想要建立一个恰当的发展模式,
06:13
if at the same time you're destroying or allowing
151
373260
3000
如果与此同时破坏或者
06:16
the degradation of the very asset, the most important asset,
152
376260
3000
任由最重要的发展资本--
06:19
which is your development asset,
153
379260
2000
生态基础设施--退化,
06:21
that is ecological infrastructure.
154
381260
2000
那么实现发展只是空谈。
06:23
How bad can things get?
155
383260
2000
这种情况能变得多糟糕呢?
06:25
Well here a picture of something called the mean species abundance.
156
385260
3000
这里有幅被称为“平均物种充足性”的图。
06:28
It's basically a measure
157
388260
2000
它用来衡量周围环境中
06:30
of how many tigers, toads, ticks or whatever on average
158
390260
2000
单位面积内平均来说
06:32
of biomass of various species are around.
159
392260
3000
有多少老虎、蟾蜍、壁虱或是其他不同物种。
06:35
The green represents the percentage.
160
395260
2000
绿色代表的是百分比。
06:37
If you start green, it's like 80 to 100 percent.
161
397260
3000
如果你开始的时候处于绿色区域,那么生物覆盖率大约为80%到100%。
06:40
If it's yellow, it's 40 to 60 percent.
162
400260
2000
如果黄色,那么是40%到60%。
06:42
And these are percentages versus the original state, so to speak,
163
402260
2000
这些百分比是相对于最初状态来说的,
06:44
the pre-industrial era, 1750.
164
404260
3000
即工业革命前期,1750年。
06:47
Now I'm going to show you
165
407260
2000
现在,我将向你们展示
06:49
how business as usual will affect this.
166
409260
2000
寻常的商业化进程如何影响平均物种充足性。
06:51
And just watch the change in colors
167
411260
2000
看看图上的颜色
06:53
in India, China, Europe,
168
413260
2000
在印度、中国、欧洲、
06:55
sub-Saharan Africa
169
415260
2000
以及撒哈拉沙漠以南的非洲的变化,
06:57
as we move on and consume global biomass
170
417260
3000
如果全球单位面积内生物数量继续以现在的速率减少,
07:00
at a rate which is actually not going to be able to sustain us.
171
420260
4000
那么地球将无法维持人类的生存。
07:04
See that again.
172
424260
2000
回到这张图。
07:06
The only places that remain green -- and that's not good news --
173
426260
2000
坏消息是,唯一仍呈绿色的地区
07:08
is, in fact, places like the Gobi Desert,
174
428260
3000
事实上是戈壁区、
07:11
like the tundra and like the Sahara.
175
431260
2000
苔原冻土地带、撒哈拉沙漠之类的地方。
07:13
But that doesn't help because there were very few species
176
433260
2000
这些无济于事,因为生活在这些地方的物种本来就极少,
07:15
and volume of biomass there in the first place.
177
435260
2000
单位面积生物数量很小。
07:17
This is the challenge.
178
437260
2000
这就是挑战所在。
07:19
The reason this is happening
179
439260
3000
在我看来,
07:22
boils down, in my mind, to one basic problem,
180
442260
3000
这种现象发生的原因可以归结为一个最基本的问题,
07:25
which is our inability to perceive the difference
181
445260
2000
就是我们未能理解
07:27
between public benefits
182
447260
2000
公共利益
07:29
and private profits.
183
449260
2000
和个人利益之间的差别。
07:31
We tend to constantly ignore public wealth
184
451260
3000
我们往往倾向于无视公共财富,
07:34
simply because it is in the common wealth,
185
454260
2000
仅仅因为它是共同财富的一部分,
07:36
it's common goods.
186
456260
2000
是一项共同商品。
07:38
And here's an example from Thailand
187
458260
2000
举一个发生在泰国的例子,
07:40
where we found that, because the value of a mangrove is not that much --
188
460260
4000
我们发现,由于红树林的价值并不算高--
07:44
it's about $600 over the life of nine years that this has been measured --
189
464260
4000
据估计在它们9年的生命期内大约价值600美元--
07:48
compared to its value as a shrimp farm,
190
468260
2000
相对于养虾场来说
07:50
which is more like $9,600,
191
470260
2000
它的价值大约9600美元。
07:52
there has been a gradual trend to deplete the mangroves
192
472260
3000
红树林正渐渐被砍伐
07:55
and convert them to shrimp farms.
193
475260
2000
改建成养虾场。
07:57
But of course, if you look at exactly what those profits are,
194
477260
4000
当然,如果仔细看看这些利润究竟来自哪里,
08:01
almost 8,000 of those dollars
195
481260
2000
你会看到其中大约8000美元
08:03
are, in fact, subsidies.
196
483260
2000
实际上来自政府补贴。
08:05
So you compare the two sides of the coin
197
485260
3000
因此,这两种选择之间的经济价值差异
08:08
and you find that it's more like 1,200 to 600.
198
488260
2000
大约在1200到600美元之间。
08:10
That's not that hard.
199
490260
2000
这看起来并不算糟。
08:12
But on the other hand, if you start measuring,
200
492260
2000
但从另一方面去衡量,
08:14
how much would it actually cost
201
494260
2000
我们究竟要花多少钱
08:16
to restore the land of the shrimp farm
202
496260
2000
才能让被养虾场占用的土地
08:18
back to productive use?
203
498260
2000
恢复其生产作用?
08:20
Once salt deposition and chemical deposition
204
500260
2000
一旦土地被盐碱化或是形成化学淀积,
08:22
has had its effects,
205
502260
2000
恢复其生产作用的成本
08:24
that answer is more like $12,000 of cost.
206
504260
3000
很可能高达1.2万美元。
08:27
And if you see the benefits of the mangrove
207
507260
2000
如果考虑红树林
08:29
in terms of the storm protection and cyclone protection that you get
208
509260
3000
在暴雨、暴风发生时对土地提供的保护,
08:32
and in terms of the fisheries, the fish nurseries,
209
512260
2000
以及向穷人提供赖以生存的鱼群的
08:34
that provide fish for the poor,
210
514260
2000
养鱼场、鱼苗圃,
08:36
that answer is more like $11,000.
211
516260
2000
那么其潜在价值很可能达到1.1万美元。
08:38
So now look at the different lens.
212
518260
2000
现在,我们换个角度看问题。
08:40
If you look at the lens of public wealth
213
520260
2000
如果从公共财富
08:42
as against the lens of private profits,
214
522260
2000
而不是个人利益的角度看,
08:44
you get a completely different answer,
215
524260
2000
会得到完全不同的结论--
08:46
which is clearly conservation makes more sense,
216
526260
3000
我们应该保护红树林,
08:49
and not destruction.
217
529260
2000
而不是毁坏它。
08:51
So is this just a story from South Thailand?
218
531260
3000
这种情况仅仅发生在泰国南部吗?
08:54
Sorry, this is a global story.
219
534260
2000
遗憾的是,全球都存在这个现象。
08:56
And here's what the same calculation looks like,
220
536260
2000
这里展示的最近是用类似计算方法得到的结果--
08:58
which was done recently -- well I say recently, over the last 10 years --
221
538260
3000
“最近”是指过去十年--
09:01
by a group called TRUCOST.
222
541260
2000
由一个叫TRUCOST的组织(专注于向公司提供其运营过程中可能对环境产生影响的数据)提供。
09:03
And they calculated for the top 3,000 corporations,
223
543260
2000
他们对排名前3000的公司进行了计算
09:05
what are the externalities?
224
545260
2000
--公司运营的外部效应是什么?
09:07
In other words, what are the costs of doing business as usual?
225
547260
2000
换句话说,公司运营的实际成本是多少?
09:09
This is not illegal stuff, this is basically business as usual,
226
549260
3000
公司日常运营范畴之内的某些举动虽然并不违法,
09:12
which causes climate-changing emissions, which have an economic cost.
227
552260
3000
但那些影响气候变化的排放物需被纳入经济成本。
09:15
It causes pollutants being issued, which have an economic cost,
228
555260
3000
公司运营过程中产生了污染物,这些需被纳入经济成本、
09:18
health cost and so on.
229
558260
2000
健康成本等的考虑范围。
09:20
Use of freshwater.
230
560260
2000
拿淡水的应用来举例。
09:22
If you drill water to make coke near a village farm,
231
562260
2000
如果你在一个农庄附近取水用来生产可乐,
09:24
that's not illegal, but yes, it costs the community.
232
564260
2000
这的确并不违法,但会对当地社区产生影响。
09:26
Can we stop this, and how?
233
566260
2000
我们能否阻止这一行为?如何去阻止?
09:28
I think the first point to make is that we need to recognize natural capital.
234
568260
3000
我认为首先要明确的一点是,需要认识到自然资产的存在。
09:31
Basically the stuff of life is natural capital,
235
571260
3000
自然资产是指那些有生命的东西,
09:34
and we need to recognize and build that into our systems.
236
574260
3000
我们需要承认它们的存在,并将其纳入经济体系中。
09:37
When we measure GDP
237
577260
2000
我们在衡量作为全国经济表现指标的
09:39
as a measure of economic performance at the national level,
238
579260
2000
国内生产总值时,
09:41
we don't include our biggest asset at the country level.
239
581260
3000
并未包含这个从国家层面来说最大的资产。
09:44
When we measure corporate performances,
240
584260
2000
我们衡量公司表现时,
09:46
we don't include our impacts on nature
241
586260
2000
也未包括对于自然的影响
09:48
and what our business costs society.
242
588260
2000
以及对于社会的影响。
09:50
That has to stop.
243
590260
2000
这种衡量方法必须被淘汰。
09:52
In fact, this was what really inspired my interest in this phase.
244
592260
3000
事实上,这一观点激发了我此阶段的兴趣所在。
09:55
I began a project way back called the Green Accounting Project.
245
595260
2000
我很久之前发起了一个名为“绿色会计”的项目。
09:57
That was in the early 2000s
246
597260
2000
21世纪初期,
09:59
when India was going gung-ho about GDP growth
247
599260
3000
随着一系列进程的推进,
10:02
as the means forward --
248
602260
2000
印度试图努力提高GDP增长--
10:04
looking at China with its stellar growths of eight, nine, 10 percent
249
604260
2000
看着中国每年8%,9%,10%的GDP稳步增速,
10:06
and wondering, why can we do the same?
250
606260
2000
想着“我们怎样也能实现这么迅速地增长呢?”
10:08
And a few friends of mine and I
251
608260
2000
我和我的一些朋友们认为
10:10
decided this doesn't make sense.
252
610260
2000
这一增长速度不合乎情理。
10:12
This is going to create more cost to society and more losses.
253
612260
3000
这将会为社会发展增加更多成本、带来更大损失。
10:15
So we decided to do a massive set of calculations
254
615260
2000
因此我们决定进行大量关于自然资产的计算,
10:17
and started producing green accounts for India and its states.
255
617260
3000
并开始为印度及其各州维护绿色账户。
10:20
That's how my interests began
256
620260
2000
我的兴趣由此引发,
10:22
and went to the TEEB project.
257
622260
2000
随之开展了TEEB(生态系统与生物多样性经济学)项目。
10:24
Calculating this at the national level is one thing, and it has begun.
258
624260
3000
其中一项任务就是开展国家层面关于自然经济成本的计算。
10:27
And the World Bank has acknowledged this
259
627260
2000
世界银行认识到这个的重要性,
10:29
and they've started a project called WAVES --
260
629260
2000
并开展了一个称为WAVES的项目,
10:31
Wealth Accounting and Valuation of Ecosystem Services.
261
631260
2000
即“财富会计与生态系统评估”。
10:33
But calculating this at the next level,
262
633260
2000
在下一个层面,
10:35
that means at the business sector level, is important.
263
635260
2000
即在各商业部门进行此项计算,至关重要。
10:37
And actually we've done this with the TEEB project.
264
637260
2000
我们通过TEEB项目实现了这点。
10:39
We've done this for a very difficult case,
265
639260
3000
我们把这种计算应用到一个相当复杂的案例上--
10:42
which was for deforestation in China.
266
642260
2000
中国的森林退减。
10:44
This is important, because in China in 1997,
267
644260
3000
这个案例举足轻重,因为在1997年,
10:47
the Yellow River actually went dry for nine months
268
647260
3000
中国的黄河曾一度干涸九个月之久,
10:50
causing severe loss of agriculture output
269
650260
2000
导致农业产出严重减少,
10:52
and pain and loss to society.
270
652260
2000
也给社会带来了损失。
10:54
Just a year later the Yangtze flooded,
271
654260
2000
仅仅一年之后,长江爆发洪涝,
10:56
causing something like 5,500 deaths.
272
656260
3000
导致约5500人死亡。
10:59
So clearly there was a problem with deforestation.
273
659260
2000
显然,森林减退带来了一定问题。
11:01
It was associated largely with the construction industry.
274
661260
3000
这和建筑行业(对木材的需求)紧密相关。
11:04
And the Chinese government responded sensibly
275
664260
2000
中国政府作出了理智回应,
11:06
and placed a ban on felling.
276
666260
2000
颁布条令禁止乱砍滥伐。
11:08
A retrospective on 40 years
277
668260
2000
回顾过去40年,
11:10
shows that if we had accounted for these costs --
278
670260
4000
我们可以看到,如果算上所有成本代价--
11:14
the cost of loss of topsoil,
279
674260
2000
包括表层土壤的流失、
11:16
the cost of loss of waterways,
280
676260
2000
河道的干涸,
11:18
the lost productivity, the loss to local communities
281
678260
3000
以及由所有这些因素造成的
11:21
as a result of all these factors,
282
681260
2000
生产力减退、对当地社区的损害、
11:23
desertification and so on --
283
683260
2000
荒漠化等等问题--
11:25
those costs are almost twice as much
284
685260
2000
这些代价几乎是砍伐森林所得木材
11:27
as the market price of timber.
285
687260
2000
市场价格的两倍。
11:29
So in fact, the price of timber in the Beijing marketplace
286
689260
3000
因此,北京市面上木材的价格
11:32
ought to have been three-times what it was
287
692260
2000
如果反映其对中国社会造成的
11:34
had it reflected the true pain and the costs
288
694260
3000
实际影响及其实际成本,
11:37
to the society within China.
289
697260
2000
应该是目前价格的三倍。
11:39
Of course, after the event one can be wise.
290
699260
3000
当然,我们可以从这个项目中汲取经验。
11:42
The way to do this is to do it on a company basis,
291
702260
2000
方法是在公司层面开展关于潜在经济成本的计算,
11:44
to take leadership forward,
292
704260
2000
把它作为领导决策的一部分,
11:46
and to do it for as many important sectors which have a cost,
293
706260
3000
尽可能多地囊括产生此类成本的部门,
11:49
and to disclose these answers.
294
709260
2000
并公布计算结果。
11:51
Someone once asked me, "Who is better or worse,
295
711260
2000
有人曾问我:“论对于印尼雨林的影响而言,
11:53
is it Unilever or is it P&G
296
713260
2000
联合利华和宝洁两家公司
11:55
when it comes to their impact on rainforests in Indonesia?"
297
715260
3000
谁造成的正面或者负面影响更大?”
11:58
And I couldn't answer because neither of these companies,
298
718260
2000
我无法做出回答,因为这两家公司
12:00
good though they are and professional though they are,
299
720260
2000
尽管它们都很优秀、都很专业
12:02
do not calculate or disclose their externalities.
300
722260
3000
但都未计算或者公布它们对于环境的外部影响。
12:05
But if we look at companies like PUMA --
301
725260
2000
我们来看看类似于彪马PUMA之类的公司--
12:07
Jochen Zeitz, their CEO and chairman,
302
727260
2000
他们的CEO兼主席Jochen Zeitz,
12:09
once challenged me at a function,
303
729260
2000
曾向我发起过关于计算公司潜在经济成本的挑战,
12:11
saying that he's going to implement my project before I finish it.
304
731260
3000
并说他会在我完成项目之前,提前实现它。
12:14
Well I think we kind of did it at the same time, but he's done it.
305
734260
3000
我想我们大约同时完成,但关键在于他确实实施了这个项目。
12:17
He's basically worked the cost to PUMA.
306
737260
2000
基本上完成了彪马在运营过程中潜在经济成本的计算。
12:19
PUMA has 2.7 billion dollars of turnover,
307
739260
2000
彪马的营业额为27亿美元,
12:21
300 million dollars of profits,
308
741260
2000
拥有3亿美元利润,
12:23
200 million dollars after tax,
309
743260
2000
税后利润为2亿美元,
12:25
94 million dollars of externalities, cost to business.
310
745260
3000
9400万为外部效应,这是公司运营成本的一部分。
12:28
Now that's not a happy situation for them,
311
748260
2000
对于他们来说,这并不是一个可喜的处境,
12:30
but they have the confidence and the courage
312
750260
2000
但他们有信心、有勇气
12:32
to come forward and say, "Here's what we are measuring.
313
752260
3000
面对这一情形并说:“我们就是这么衡量公司效益的。
12:35
We are measuring it because we know
314
755260
2000
我们衡量这些潜在成本是因为我们知道
12:37
that you cannot manage what you do not measure."
315
757260
2000
人们无法掌控自己不去衡量的事物。”
12:39
That's an example, I think, for us to look at
316
759260
2000
我想,这可以作为一个用来参照
12:41
and for us to draw comfort from.
317
761260
2000
并从中得到慰藉的例子。
12:43
If more companies did this,
318
763260
2000
如果更多的公司参与到这个项目中,
12:45
and if more sectors engaged this as sectors,
319
765260
2000
如果更多部门把它纳入考虑范围,
12:47
you could have analysts, business analysts,
320
767260
2000
你就可以请分析师、商业分析师
12:49
and you could have people like us and consumers and NGOs
321
769260
3000
以及像我们一样的职业人员、消费者、NGO共同参与,
12:52
actually look and compare the social performance of companies.
322
772260
3000
来研究与比较各公司的社会表现。
12:55
Today we can't yet do that, but I think the path is laid out.
323
775260
3000
目前我们还无法实践这一目标,但我认为如何去实施的道路已经被指明了。
12:58
This can be done.
324
778260
2000
这个想法是可以实现的。
13:00
And I'm delighted that the Institute of Chartered Accountants in the U.K.
325
780260
2000
很高兴,英国的特许会计师协会
13:02
has already set up a coalition to do this,
326
782260
2000
已经成立了一个致力于此的联盟
13:04
an international coalition.
327
784260
2000
-- 一个国际性联盟。
13:06
The other favorite, if you like, solution for me
328
786260
3000
另外一个我最喜欢的解决方案,不知道你们是否喜欢,
13:09
is the creation of green carbon markets.
329
789260
2000
是绿碳市场的成立。
13:11
And by the way, these are my favorites --
330
791260
2000
顺便提一句,这是我最喜欢的两个创意--
13:13
externalities calculation and green carbon markets.
331
793260
2000
计算对于环境的外部影响,以及绿碳市场。
13:15
TEEB has more than a dozen separate groups of solutions
332
795260
4000
TEEB有许多独立的解决方案
13:19
including protected area evaluation
333
799260
2000
--包括对受保护地区的评估、
13:21
and payments for ecosystem services
334
801260
2000
为生态系统提供的服务付费、
13:23
and eco-certification and you name it, but these are the favorites.
335
803260
3000
以及生态证书等你能想到的方案,但以上提到的两个最受欢迎。
13:26
What's green carbon?
336
806260
2000
何谓“绿碳排放”?
13:28
Today what we have is basically a brown carbon marketplace.
337
808260
2000
现今我们拥有的基本是一个“褐碳市场”。
13:30
It's about energy emissions.
338
810260
2000
这个概念和能源排放有关。
13:32
The European Union ETS is the main marketplace.
339
812260
2000
欧盟排放贸易体系( European Union Emissions Trading Scheme)是主要市场。
13:34
It's not doing too well. We've over-issued.
340
814260
2000
这一体系运行得并不好,排放量已超额。
13:36
A bit like inflation: you over-issue currency,
341
816260
2000
有点像通货膨胀:如果超额发行货币,
13:38
you get what you see, declining prices.
342
818260
3000
后果就是价格下跌。
13:41
But that's all about energy and industry.
343
821260
3000
但这里提到的情形关乎能源与工业。
13:44
But what we're missing is also some other emissions
344
824260
2000
同样超标的还有其他排放物,
13:46
like black carbon, that is soot.
345
826260
2000
比如说“黑碳排放”,也就是煤烟排放。
13:48
What we're also missing is blue carbon,
346
828260
2000
“蓝碳排放”也已超标,
13:50
which, by the way, is the largest store of carbon --
347
830260
2000
顺便说,它的碳含量最大--
13:52
more than 55 percent.
348
832260
2000
超过碳排放总量的55%。
13:54
Thankfully, the flux, in other words, the flow of emissions
349
834260
2000
好在这些排放物
13:56
from the ocean to the atmosphere and vice versa,
350
836260
2000
从海洋流向空气再回流海洋的过程
13:58
is more or less balanced.
351
838260
2000
或多或少还算平衡。
14:00
In fact, what's being absorbed
352
840260
2000
事实上,我们的排放物中
14:02
is something like 25 percent of our emissions,
353
842260
3000
有大约25%在这一过程中被吸收,
14:05
which then leads to acidification
354
845260
2000
随而导致海水的酸化
14:07
or lower alkalinity in oceans.
355
847260
2000
或是海水碱性的降低。
14:09
More of that in a minute.
356
849260
2000
再补充一句。
14:11
And finally, there's deforestation,
357
851260
2000
此外,还有森林的减退、
14:13
and there's emission of methane
358
853260
2000
以及农业活动中
14:15
from agriculture.
359
855260
2000
释放出的甲烷。
14:17
Green carbon,
360
857260
2000
“绿碳排放”
14:19
which is the deforestation and agricultural emissions,
361
859260
2000
--即森林减退和农业排放--
14:21
and blue carbon
362
861260
2000
与“蓝碳排放”
14:23
together comprise 25 percent of our emissions.
363
863260
2000
加起来占了总碳排放量的25%。
14:25
We have the means already in our hands,
364
865260
2000
我们手头已经有了解决方法,
14:27
through a structure, through a mechanism, called REDD Plus --
365
867260
2000
即通过“REDD Plus(Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation由森林砍伐和森林退化引起的减少排放)”这个体系及其机制--
14:29
a scheme for the reduced emissions
366
869260
2000
来制定针对减少排放的计划,
14:31
from deforestation and forest degradation.
367
871260
3000
用以解决由乱砍滥伐和森林退化引起的问题。
14:34
And already Norway has contributed a billion dollars each
368
874260
3000
挪威已经向印尼和巴西
14:37
towards Indonesia and Brazil
369
877260
2000
各注资十亿美元
14:39
to implement this Red Plus scheme.
370
879260
2000
用来实施“REDD Plus”计划。
14:41
So we actually have some movement forward.
371
881260
2000
我们确实在向好的方面进展。
14:43
But the thing is to do a lot more of that.
372
883260
2000
但需要做的远比这些多。
14:45
Will this solve the problem? Will economics solve everything?
373
885260
3000
这个方法能否解决所关心的问题?经济学能否用来解决所有难题?
14:48
Well I'm afraid not.
374
888260
2000
恐怕不行。
14:50
There is an area that is the oceans, coral reefs.
375
890260
3000
这个问题有一部分涉及到海洋以及珊瑚礁。
14:53
As you can see,
376
893260
2000
可以看到,
14:55
they cut across the entire globe
377
895260
2000
它们分割了整个地球,
14:57
all the way from Micronesia
378
897260
2000
从密克罗尼西亚岛群开始,
14:59
across Indonesia, Malaysia, India, Madagascar
379
899260
3000
横穿印尼、马来西亚、印度、马达加斯加,
15:02
and to the West of the Caribbean.
380
902260
2000
直达加勒比海西侧。
15:04
These red dots, these red areas,
381
904260
2000
这些红点、这些红色区域,
15:06
basically provide the food and livelihood
382
906260
2000
为5亿多人口
15:08
for more than half a billion people.
383
908260
2000
提供了食物和生存手段。
15:10
So that's almost an eighth of society.
384
910260
3000
这比例几乎占了整个社会的八分之一。
15:13
And the sad thing is that, as these coral reefs are lost --
385
913260
3000
坏消息在于,这些珊瑚礁正渐渐消失--
15:16
and scientists tell us
386
916260
2000
据科学家说,
15:18
that any level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere above 350 parts per million
387
918260
3000
若大气中二氧化碳含量超过350ppm(即每百万分空气中含350分二氧化碳)
15:21
is too dangerous for the survival of these reefs --
388
921260
3000
就会严重危及珊瑚礁的生存--
15:24
we are not only risking the extinction
389
924260
2000
我们不仅仅是拿
15:26
of the entire coral species, the warm water corals,
390
926260
2000
整个暖水海洋珊瑚种群的生存在冒险,
15:28
we're not only risking a fourth of all fish species which are in the oceans,
391
928260
4000
不仅仅是拿海洋中四分之一鱼类的生存在冒险,
15:32
but we are risking the very lives and livelihoods
392
932260
2000
更是拿生活在贫穷发展中国家
15:34
of more than 500 million people
393
934260
3000
超过5亿人的生命以及他们的生活
15:37
who live in the developing world in poor countries.
394
937260
3000
在冒险。
15:40
So in selecting targets of 450 parts per million
395
940260
3000
因此,在选择把450ppm作为大气中二氧化碳含量的警戒线
15:43
and selecting two degrees at the climate negotiations,
396
943260
3000
以及协商把两度作为气候变化指标的过程中,
15:46
what we have done is we've made an ethical choice.
397
946260
3000
我们的所作所为是一个道德方面的选择。
15:49
We've actually kind of made an ethical choice in society
398
949260
3000
我们实际上从某种意义上说,
15:52
to not have coral reefs.
399
952260
2000
在道义上选择了放弃珊瑚礁。
15:54
Well what I will say to you in parting
400
954260
2000
在结束演讲之前,我要说的是,
15:56
is that we may have done that.
401
956260
2000
我们可能已经做出了造成珊瑚礁灭绝的举动。
15:58
Let's think about it and what it means,
402
958260
2000
让我们思考一下这意味着什么,
16:00
but please, let's not do more of that.
403
960260
2000
但请不要再继续这些举动了。
16:02
Because mother nature only has that much
404
962260
2000
大自然母亲只有这么多的
16:04
in ecological infrastructure and that much natural capital.
405
964260
3000
生态资源和自然资产。
16:07
I don't think we can afford too much of such ethical choices.
406
967260
3000
我们承受不起代价如此之大的这样道德选择。
16:10
Thank you.
407
970260
2000
谢谢。
16:12
(Applause)
408
972260
12000
(掌声)
关于本网站

这个网站将向你介绍对学习英语有用的YouTube视频。你将看到来自世界各地的一流教师教授的英语课程。双击每个视频页面上显示的英文字幕,即可从那里播放视频。字幕会随着视频的播放而同步滚动。如果你有任何意见或要求,请使用此联系表与我们联系。

https://forms.gle/WvT1wiN1qDtmnspy7