Mary Lou Jepsen: Could future devices read images from our brains?

Prevodilac: Mile Živković Lektor: Anja Saric

I had brain surgery 18 years ago,

Imala sam operaciju mozga pre 18 godina,

and since that time, brain science has become

i od tada, nauka o mozgu postala je

a personal passion of mine.

moja lična strast.

I'm actually an engineer.

Ja sam zapravo inženjer.

And first let me say, I recently joined

Najpre da kažem, nedavno sam se pridružila

Google's Moonshot group,

Guglovoj grupi "Moonshot",

where I had a division,

gde sam imala odeljenje,

the display division in Google X,

odeljenje za prikazivanje u Guglu X

and the brain science work I'm speaking about today

i rad na nauci o mozgu o kome govorim danas

is work I did before I joined Google

je rad kojim sam se bavila pre nego što sam se priključila Guglu

and on the side outside of Google.

i van Gugla.

So that said, there's a stigma

Kad ovo kažem, postoji stigma

when you have brain surgery.

kad ste imali operaciju na mozgu.

Are you still smart or not?

Jeste li još uvek pametni ili ne?

And if not, can you make yourself smart again?

Ako niste, da li možete da učinite da opet budete pametni?

After my neurosurgery,

Posle moje operacije,

part of my brain was missing,

deo mozga mi je falio,

and I had to deal with that.

i morala sam da se nosim s time.

It wasn't the grey matter, but it was the gooey part dead center

Nije to bila ona siva materija, već ona želatinasta sredina

that makes key hormones and neurotransmitters.

koja pravi glavne hormone i neurotransmitere.

Immediately after my surgery,

Odmah nakon moje operacije,

I had to decide what amounts of each of over

morala sam da odlučim koliko od svake

a dozen powerful chemicals to take each day,

od desetine moćnih hemikalija da uzimam svakog dana,

because if I just took nothing,

jer da nisam uzimala ništa,

I would die within hours.

umrla bih u roku od par sati.

Every day now for 18 years -- every single day --

Svakog dana tokom ovih 18 godina - svakog dana -

I've had to try to decide the combinations

morala sam da biram kombinacije

and mixtures of chemicals,

i mešavine hemikalija,

and try to get them, to stay alive.

i da probam da ih unesem, kako bih ostala živa.

There have been several close calls.

Bilo je nekoliko skoro katastrofalnih situacija.

But luckily, I'm an experimentalist at heart,

Ali srećom, ja sam eksperimentalista u duši,

so I decided I would experiment

tako da sam odlučila da eksperimentišem

to try to find more optimal dosages

da nađem optimalniju dozu

because there really isn't a clear road map

jer ovde ne postoji tačna mapa puta

on this that's detailed.

sa detaljima.

I began to try different mixtures,

Isprobavala sam različite mešavine,

and I was blown away by how

i iznenadilo me je to

tiny changes in dosages

kako su sitne promene u dozi

dramatically changed my sense of self,

jako uticale na moje poimanje sebe,

my sense of who I was, my thinking,

na osećaj toga ko sam, moje razmišljanje,

my behavior towards people.

moje ponašanje sa ljudima.

One particularly dramatic case:

Jedan posebno dramatičan slučaj:

for a couple months I actually tried dosages

par meseci sam isprobavala doze

and chemicals typical of a man in his early 20s,

i hemikalije tipične za muškarca u ranim dvadesetim,

and I was blown away by how my thoughts changed.

i zaprepastilo me kako su se moje misli promenile.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

I was angry all the time,

Sve vreme sam bila ljuta,

I thought about sex constantly,

stalno sam mislila na seks,

and I thought I was the smartest person

i mislila sam da sam najpametnija osoba

in the entire world, and

na celom svetu, i -

—(Laughter)—

(Smeh)

of course over the years I'd met guys kind of like that,

naravno da sam tokom godina upoznala momke koji su nešto tako

or maybe kind of toned-down versions of that.

ili neka za par nijansi drugačija verzija toga.

I was kind of extreme.

Bila sam neki ekstrem.

But to me, the surprise was,

Ali je za mene bilo iznenađenje,

I wasn't trying to be arrogant.

da ja nisam htela da budem arogantna.

I was actually trying,

Zapravo sam pokušavala,

with a little bit of insecurity,

sa malo nesigurnosti,

to actually fix a problem in front of me,

da zapravo sredim problem koji je ispred mene,

and it just didn't come out that way.

a nije ispadalo tako.

So I couldn't handle it.

Nisam mogla da se nosim sa tim.

I changed my dosages.

Promenila sam doze.

But that experience, I think, gave me

Ali mislim da mi je to iskustvo dalo

a new appreciation for men

novu vrstu uvažavanja prema muškarcima

and what they might walk through,

i tome kroz šta prolaze,

and I've gotten along with men

i slažem se mnogo bolje

a lot better since then.

sa muškarcima od tada.

What I was trying to do

Zapravo sam pokušavala

with tuning these hormones

da uklopim ove hormone

and neurotransmitters and so forth

i neurotransmitere i tako dalje

was to try to get my intelligence back

da bih povratila svoju inteligenciju

after my illness and surgery,

nakon operacije,

my creative thought, my idea flow.

moje kreativno razmišljanje, moj tok misli.

And I think mostly in images,

Ja prvenstveno mislim u slikama,

and so for me that became a key metric --

tako da je to za mene postala glavna merna jedinica -

how to get these mental images

kako da dobijem te mentalne slike

that I use as a way of rapid prototyping,

koje ja koristim kao način mentalnog prototipiranja,

if you will, my ideas,

ako ćete tako, mojih ideja,

trying on different new ideas for size,

isprobavanje novih ideja za veličinu,

playing out scenarios.

puštati scenarije u glavi.

This kind of thinking isn't new.

Ovaj način razmišljanja nije nov.

Philiosophers like Hume and Descartes and Hobbes

Filozofi kao Hjum, Dekart i Hobs

saw things similarly.

su slično videli stvari.

They thought that mental images and ideas

Mislili su da su mentalne slike i ideje

were actually the same thing.

zapravo ista stvar.

There are those today that dispute that,

Ima onih danas koji to opovrgavaju,

and lots of debates about how the mind works,

i ima mnogo rasprava o tome kako um radi,

but for me it's simple:

ali za mene je to prosto:

Mental images, for most of us,

Mentalne slike, za većinu nas,

are central in inventive and creative thinking.

su glavne za pronalazačko i kreativno razmišljanje.

So after several years,

I nakon nekoliko godina,

I tuned myself up and I have lots of great,

naštimovala sam sebe i imam puno divnih,

really vivid mental images with a lot of sophistication

opipljivih, prefinjenih mentalnih slika,

and the analytical backbone behind them.

i analitičku pozadinu za njih.

And so now I'm working on,

A sada radim na tome

how can I get these mental images in my mind

kako da te mentalne slike iz svog uma

out to my computer screen faster?

što brže stavim na ekran kompjutera.

Can you imagine, if you will,

Možete li da zamislite

a movie director being able to use

da režiser filma može da koristi

her imagination alone to direct the world in front of her?

samo svoju maštu da režira svet ispred sebe?

Or a musician to get the music out of his head?

Ili muzičara koji izbacuje muziku iz svoje glave?

There are incredible possibilities with this

Ovde postoje neverovatne mogućnosti

as a way for creative people

za načine da kreativni ljudi

to share at light speed.

dele stvari svetlosnom brzinom.

And the truth is, the remaining bottleneck

Istina je da je preostala prepreka

in being able to do this

da bi se ovo uradilo

is just upping the resolution of brain scan systems.

u tome da se poveća rezolucija naših sistema za snimanje mozga.

So let me show you why I think we're pretty close to getting there

Dozvolite da vam pokažem zašto mislim da smo veoma blizu tome

by sharing with you two recent experiments

tako što ću sa vama podeliti dva skorašnja eksperimenta

from two top neuroscience groups.

od dve vrhunske grupe neurologa.

Both used fMRI technology --

Obe su koristile PFMRZ tehnologiju -

functional magnetic resonance imaging technology --

prikaz funkcionalne magnetne rezonance -

to image the brain,

kako bi snimile mozak,

and here is a brain scan set from Giorgio Ganis

a ovde je komplet slika mozga od Đorđa Ganisa

and his colleagues at Harvard.

i njegovih kolega na Harvardu.

And the left-hand column shows a brain scan

Leva kolona prikazuje mozak

of a person looking at an image.

osobe koja gleda u sliku.

The middle column shows the brainscan

Srednja kolona prikazuje mozak

of that same individual

iste te osobe

imagining, seeing that same image.

koja zamišlja i gleda tu istu sliku.

And the right column was created

Desna kolona je dobijena

by subtracting the middle column from the left column,

tako što je oduzeta srednja od leve kolone,

showing the difference to be nearly zero.

i vidi se da je razlika skoro nepostojeća.

This was repeated on lots of different individuals

Ovo je ponovljeno dosta puta na različitim osobama

with lots of different images,

sa dosta različitih slika,

always with a similar result.

uvek sa sličnim rezultatima.

The difference between seeing an image

Razlika između gledanja u sliku

and imagining seeing that same image

i zamišljanja da gledate sliku

is next to nothing.

skoro da ne postoji.

Next let me share with you one other experiment,

Sada ću vam pokazati još jedan eskperiment,

this from Jack Gallant's lab at Cal Berkeley.

iz laboratorije Džeka Galanta na Berkliju.

They've been able to decode brainwaves

Oni su uspeli da dekodiraju moždane talase

into recognizable visual fields.

u prepoznatljiva vizuelna polja.

So let me set this up for you.

Hajde da vam izložim priču.

In this experiment, individuals were shown

U ovom eksperimentu, osobama je prikazivano

hundreds of hours of YouTube videos

stotine sati video snimaka sa Jutjuba

while scans were made of their brains

dok su im skenirali mozgove

to create a large library of their brain reacting

kako bi stvorili biblioteku snimaka toga kako reaguju

to video sequences.

na video zapise.

Then a new movie was shown with new images,

Onda je prikazan novi film, sa novim slikama,

new people, new animals in it,

novim ljudima i novim životinjama

and a new scan set was recorded.

i snimljeni su novi zapisi.

The computer, using brain scan data alone,

Koristeći isključivo podatke o skeniranju mozga,

decoded that new brain scan

kompjuter je dekodirao taj novi zapis

to show what it thought the individual was actually seeing.

kako bi pokazao ono što je on mislio da ta osoba zapravo vidi.

On the right-hand side, you see the computer's guess,

Sa desne strane možete videti pretpostavku kompjutera

and on the left-hand side, the presented clip.

a sa leve prikazani snimak.

This is the jaw-dropper.

Ovo je neverovatno.

We are so close to being able to do this.

Blizu smo tome da možemo da uradimo ovo.

We just need to up the resolution.

Samo moramo da uvećamo rezoluciju.

And now remember that when you see an image

Setite se toga kada vidite sliku

versus when you imagine that same image,

nasuprot onome kada zamislite istu tu sliku,

it creates the same brain scan.

prikaz mozga je isti.

So this was done with the highest-resolution

Ovo je urađeno sa sistemima za skeniranje mozga

brain scan systems available today,

najviše rezolucije

and their resolution has increased really

i njihova rezolucija se uvećala

about a thousandfold in the last several years.

oko 1000 puta u proteklih nekoliko godina.

Next we need to increase the resolution

Sada moramo da uvećamo rezoluciju

another thousandfold

još 1000 puta

to get a deeper glimpse.

da bismo dobili bolji uvid.

How do we do that?

Kako to da uradimo?

There's a lot of techniques in this approach.

Postoji dosta tehnika u ovom pristupu.

One way is to crack open your skull and put in electrodes.

Jedan način je da vam se otvori lobanja i postave elektrode.

I'm not for that.

Ja nisam za to.

There's a lot of new imaging techniques

Postoji dosta novih tehnika za prikazivanje slika

being proposed, some even by me,

koje predlažu ljudi, neke čak i ja,

but given the recent success of MRI,

ali s obzirom na skorašnje uspehe magnetne rezonance,

first we need to ask the question,

prvo moramo da postavimo pitanje,

is it the end of the road with this technology?

da li je sa ovom tehnologijom zaista kraj puta?

Conventional wisdom says the only way

Tradicionalna mudrost kaže da je jedini način

to get higher resolution is with bigger magnets,

da se dobije veća rezolucija putem većih magneta,

but at this point bigger magnets

ali veći magneti trenutno nude

only offer incremental resolution improvements,

samo marginalno uvećanje u rezoluciji,

not the thousandfold we need.

ne ono od 1000 puta koje nam je potrebno.

I'm putting forward an idea:

Predlažem ovo:

instead of bigger magnets,

umesto većih magneta,

let's make better magnets.

hajde da pravimo bolje magnete.

There's some new technology breakthroughs

Postoje nova otkrića u tehnologiji

in nanoscience

u nanonauci,

when applied to magnetic structures

koja su stvorila potpuno nove magnete

that have created a whole new class of magnets,

kada se primene na magnetne strukture,

and with these magnets, we can lay down

i sa ovim magnetima možemo da postavimo

very fine detailed magnetic field patterns

veoma fina, detaljna polja magneta

throughout the brain,

po celom mozgu,

and using those, we can actually create

i koristeći ih, zapravo možemo da stvorimo

holographic-like interference structures

strukture koje ometaju nalik na holgrafe,

to get precision control over many patterns,

kako bismo dobili preciznu kontrolu nad mnogim šablonima,

as is shown here by shifting things.

kao što je ovde prikazano, uz pomeranje stvari.

We can create much more complicated structures

Možemo stvoriti mnogo komplikovanije strukture

with slightly different arrangements,

uz neznatno drugačiji raspored,

kind of like making Spirograph.

kao uz igračku Spirograf.

So why does that matter?

Zašto je to bitno?

A lot of effort in MRI over the years

Dosta rada na magnetnoj rezonanci tokom godina

has gone into making really big,

fokusirano je na pravljenje

really huge magnets, right?

zaista ogromnih magneta, zar ne?

But yet most of the recent advances

Ipak, većina skorašnjih inovacija

in resolution have actually come from

u rezoluciji zapravo je došla

ingeniously clever encoding and decoding solutions

od genijalnih rešenja za kodiranje i dekodiranje

in the F.M. radio frequency transmitters and receivers

kod odašiljača i prijemnika FM radio frekvencija

in the MRI systems.

u sistemima magnetne rezonance.

Let's also, instead of a uniform magnetic field,

Takođe, hajde da umesto homogenog magnetnog polja

put down structured magnetic patterns

postavimo strukturisane magnetne šeme

in addition to the F.M. radio frequencies.

pored FM radio frekvencija.

So by combining the magnetics patterns

Kombinujući magnetne šeme

with the patterns in the F.M. radio frequencies

sa šemama u FM radio frekvencijama

processing which can massively increase

dobijamo proces koji može znatno da uveća

the information that we can extract

količinu informacija koja se dobija

in a single scan.

u jednom snimku.

And on top of that, we can then layer

Povrh svega toga, onda možemo nadograditi

our ever-growing knowledge of brain structure and memory

naše rastuće znanje o strukturi mozga i memoriji

to create a thousandfold increase that we need.

kako bismo dobili uvećanje od 1000 puta koje nam je potrebno.

And using fMRI, we should be able to measure

Koristeći magnetnu rezonancu, trebalo bi da možemo da merimo

not just oxygenated blood flow,

ne samo tok krvi sa kiseonikom

but the hormones and neurotransmitters I've talked about

već i hormone i neurotransmitere o kojima sam pričala

and maybe even the direct neural activity,

a možda čak i direktnu aktivnost neurona,

which is the dream.

što je san snova.

We're going to be able to dump our ideas

Moći ćemo da prelijemo svoje ideje

directly to digital media.

direktno u digitalne medije.

Could you imagine if we could leapfrog language

Možete li da zamislite da preskočimo jezik

and communicate directly with human thought?

i komuniciramo direktno putem ljudskih misli?

What would we be capable of then?

Šta bismo onda mogli?

And how will we learn to deal

I kako ćemo naučiti da se nosimo

with the truths of unfiltered human thought?

sa istinom neobrađene ljudske misli?

You think the Internet was big.

Mislite da je internet bio veliki.

These are huge questions.

Ovo su ogromna pitanja.

It might be irresistible as a tool

Možda će biti neodoljivo kao alat

to amplify our thinking and communication skills.

da pojačamo svoje veštine mišljenja i komunikacije.

And indeed, this very same tool

Zaista, ovaj isti alat

may prove to lead to the cure

može se dokazati kao lek

for Alzheimer's and similar diseases.

za Alchajmerovu i slične bolesti.

We have little option but to open this door.

Nemamo puno izbora osim da otvorimo ova vrata.

Regardless, pick a year --

Bez obzira, odaberite godinu -

will it happen in five years or 15 years?

da li će se desiti za pet ili 15 godina?

It's hard to imagine it taking much longer.

Teško da će trajati više od toga.

We need to learn how to take this step together.

Moramo da naučimo kako da zajedno poduzmemo ovaj korak.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)