Why giving away our wealth has been the most satisfying thing we've done... | Bill and Melinda Gates

Prevodilac: Jelena Jankovic Lektor: Mile Živković

Chris Anderson: So, this is an interview with a difference.

Kris Anderson: Dakle, ovo je intervju koji se razlikuje od ostalih.

On the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words,

S obzirom na to da slika govori više od reči,

what I did was, I asked Bill and Melinda

ja sam zamolio Bila i Melindu

to dig out from their archive

da pronađu u svojoj arhivi

some images that would help explain

neke slike koje bi pojasnile nešto od onoga

some of what they've done,

što su oni uradili,

and do a few things that way.

i da tako porazgovaramo o nekim stvarima.

So, we're going to start here.

Dakle, počećemo odavde.

Melinda, when and where was this,

Melinda, kada i gde je ovo bilo,

and who is that handsome man next to you?

i ko je taj zgodni muškarac pored tebe?

Melinda Gates: With those big glasses, huh?

Melinda Gejts: Sa velikim naočarima, ha?

This is in Africa, our very first trip,

Ovo je u Africi, na našem prvom putovanju,

the first time either of us had ever been to Africa,

kada smo oboje prvi put bili tamo,

in the fall of 1993.

u jesen 1993.

We were already engaged to be married.

Već smo bili vereni. Venčali smo se

We married a few months later,

nakon nekoliko meseci

and this was the trip where we really went to see

a na ovo putovanje smo u stvari išli

the animals and to see the savanna.

da vidimo životinje i savanu.

It was incredible. Bill had never taken that much time

Bilo je neverovatno. On nikada nije toliko

off from work.

odsustvovao sa posla.

But what really touched us, actually, were the people,

Ali na nas su najveći utisak u stvari ostavili

and the extreme poverty.

ljudi i ekstremno siromaštvo.

We started asking ourselves questions.

Počeli smo da se pitamo.

Does it have to be like this?

Da li mora da bude ovako?

And at the end of the trip,

Pred sam kraj putovanja, otišli smo u Zanzibar,

we went out to Zanzibar,

and took some time to walk on the beach,

i malo prošetali plažom,

which is something we had done a lot

to smo često radili

while we were dating.

dok smo se zabavljali.

And we'd already been talking about during that time

I već smo tada razgovarali o tome

that the wealth that had come from Microsoft

da bogatstvo stečeno u Majkrosoftu

would be given back to society,

bude vraćeno društvu,

but it was really on that beach walk

ali smo baš za vreme te šetnje

that we started to talk about, well,

počeli da govorimo o tome

what might we do and how might we go about it?

šta bismo mogli da uradimo i na koji način?

CA: So, given that this vacation

KA: Dakle, budući da je na ovom odmoru

led to the creation of

nastala najveća privatna

the world's biggest private foundation,

fondacija na svetu,

it's pretty expensive as vacations go. (Laughter)

to je prilično skup odmor. (Smeh)

MG: I guess so. We enjoyed it.

MG: Može se reći. Mi smo uživali.

CA: Which of you was the key instigator here,

KA: Ko je od vas dvoje bio glavni inicijator,

or was it symmetrical?

ili je to bilo obostrano?

Bill Gates: Well, I think we were excited

Bil Gejts: Ja mislim da smo bili uzbuđeni

that there'd be a phase of our life

što ćemo u ovoj životnoj fazi

where we'd get to work together

raditi zajedno

and figure out how to give this money back.

i razmišljati kako da vratimo taj novac.

At this stage, we were talking about the poorest,

U tom trenutku, govorili smo o najsiromašnijima,

and could you have a big impact on them?

i da li se može uticati na njih.

Were there things that weren't being done?

Da li je bilo nešto što nije učinjeno?

There was a lot we didn't know.

Mnogo toga nismo znali.

Our naïveté is pretty incredible,

Bili smo prilično neupućeni,

when we look back on it.

kad pogledamo unazad.

But we had a certain enthusiasm

Ali smo bili puni entuzijazma

that that would be the phase,

što će ta faza,

the post-Microsoft phase

faza posle Majkrosofta,

would be our philanthropy.

biti filantropska.

MG: Which Bill always thought was going to come

MG: Za koju je Bil uvek mislio da će doći

after he was 60,

nakon njegove 60. godine,

so he hasn't quite hit 60 yet,

ali nije još uvek napunio 60,

so some things change along the way.

tako da su se neke stvari usput promenile.

CA: So it started there, but it got accelerated.

KA: To je tu započelo, a zatim se i brzo odvijalo.

So that was '93, and it was '97, really,

To je bilo '93, ali je fondacija zapravo

before the foundation itself started.

osnovana tek '97.

MA: Yeah, in '97, we read an article

MG: Da, '97. smo pročitali članak

about diarrheal diseases killing so many kids around the world,

o tome kako deca širom sveta umiru od dijareje,

and we kept saying to ourselves,

i stalno smo govorili:

"Well that can't be.

"Pa to nije moguće.

In the U.S., you just go down to the drug store."

U Americi samo odeš u apoteku."

And so we started gathering scientists

I zatim smo okupili naučnike

and started learning about population,

i počeli da učimo o stanovništvu,

learning about vaccines,

da učimo o vakcinama,

learning about what had worked and what had failed,

o tome šta je uspelo, a šta nije,

and that's really when we got going,

i tada je u stvari sve krenulo.

was in late 1998, 1999.

krajem 1998., 1999.

CA: So, you've got a big pot of money

KA: Dakle, imali ste mnogo novca

and a world full of so many different issues.

i svet pun raznih problema.

How on Earth do you decide what to focus on?

Kako ste odlučili čemu da se posvetite?

BG: Well, we decided that we'd pick two causes,

BG: Pa,odlučili smo da odaberemo dva

whatever the biggest inequity was globally,

bilo koja najveća globalna problema,

and there we looked at children dying,

a to su bila deca koja umiru,

children not having enough nutrition to ever develop,

deca nerazvijena zbog nedovoljne ishrane,

and countries that were really stuck,

i zemlje u problemu

because with that level of death,

zbog velike smrtnosti,

and parents would have so many kids

a roditelji su imali toliko dece

that they'd get huge population growth,

da je broj stanovništva rastao

and that the kids were so sick

a deca bivala toliko bolesna

that they really couldn't be educated

da nisu mogla da se obrazuju

and lift themselves up.

i napreduju.

So that was our global thing,

To je globalno,

and then in the U.S.,

a opet, ovde u Americi,

both of us have had amazing educations,

oboje smo imali odlično obrazovanje

and we saw that as the way that the U.S.

i shvatili smo da, to što Amerika

could live up to its promise of equal opportunity

uspeva da ispuni obećanje o jednakim mogućnostima,

is by having a phenomenal education system,

jeste zbog fenomenalnog obrazovnog sistema,

and the more we learned, the more we realized

i što smo više saznavali, više smo shvatali

we're not really fulfilling that promise.

da mi baš i ne ispunjavamo to obećanje.

And so we picked those two things,

I tako smo odabrali te dve stvari,

and everything the foundation does

i sve što fondacija radi

is focused there.

je fokusirano na to.

CA: So, I asked each of you to pick an image

KA: Dakle, pitao sam vas oboje da odaberete sliku

that you like that illustrates your work,

koja vam se dopada, a ilustruje vaš rad,

and Melinda, this is what you picked.

i Melinda, ti si odabrala ovu.

What's this about?

O čemu se ovde radi?

MG: So I, one of the things I love to do when I travel

MG: Jedna od stvari koju volim da radim kad putujem

is to go out to the rural areas and talk to the women,

je da odem u ruralne krajeve i pričam sa ženama,

whether it's Bangladesh, India, lots of countries in Africa,

bilo da je to Bangladeš, Indija, mnoge zemlje Afrike,

and I go in as a Western woman without a name.

i tada sam žena sa Zapada, bez imena.

I don't tell them who I am. Pair of khakis.

Ne kažem im ko sam. Jednostavno obučena.

And I kept hearing from women,

I što sam više putovala,

over and over and over, the more I traveled,

uvek sam slušala od žena, iznova i iznova:

"I want to be able to use this shot."

"Želela bih da koristim ovu vakcinu."

I would be there to talk to them about childhood vaccines,

Ja bih im govorila o dečjim vakcinama,

and they would bring the conversation around to

a one bi okrenule razgovor na temu

"But what about the shot I get?"

"A šta je sa onom koju ja primam?"

which is an injection they were getting called Depo-Provera,

a to je injekcija koja se zove Depo-Provera,

which is a contraceptive.

koja je zapravo sredstvo za kontracepciju.

And I would come back and talk to global health experts,

Zatim bih se vratila i pričala sa stručnjacima,

and they'd say, "Oh no, contraceptives

koji bi rekli: "Kontraceptivna sredstva

are stocked in in the developing world."

se skladište u zemljama u razvoju."

Well, you had to dig deeper into the reports,

Morate da kopate dublje po izveštajima,

and this is what the team came to me with,

i evo šta je moj tim našao,

which is, to have the number one thing

a to je da, za prvu stvar koju žene u Africi

that women tell you in Africa they want to use

žele da koriste,

stocked out more than 200 days a year

nema zaliha više od 200 dana u godini, što objašnjava

explains why women were saying to me,

zašto su mi žene govorile,

"I walked 10 kilometers without my husband knowing it,

"Pešačila sam 10km bez muževljevog znanja,

and I got to the clinic, and there was nothing there."

došla do klinike, a tamo nije bilo ničega."

And so condoms were stocked in in Africa

A postojale su zalihe kondoma u Africi

because of all the AIDS work that the U.S.

zbog rada na prevenciji side koji

and others supported.

SAD i ostale zemlje pomažu.

But women will tell you over and over again,

Ali žene će vam stalno ponavljati:

"I can't negotiate a condom with my husband.

"Ne mogu da razgovaram o kondomu sa svojim mužem:

I'm either suggesting he has AIDS or I have AIDS,

time sugerišem da jedno od nas ima sidu

and I need that tool because then I can space

a potreban mi je da bih napravila pauzu

the births of my children, and I can feed them

između rađanja dece, da bih mogla da ih hranim

and have a chance of educating them."

i da imam priliku da ih obrazujem."

CA: Melinda, you're Roman Catholic,

KA: Melinda, ti si katolkinja

and you've often been embroiled

i često si bila upletena

in controversy over this issue,

u polemike u vezi sa ovim problemom

and on the abortion question,

i po pitanju abortusa,

on both sides, really.

sa obe strane, u stvari.

How do you navigate that?

Kako si se borila sa tim?

MG: Yeah, so I think that's a really important point,

MG: Da, mislim da je to veoma važno gledište,

which is, we had backed away from contraceptives

da smo se mi, kao globalno društvo,

as a global community.

udaljili od kontracepcije.

We knew that 210 million women

Znali smo da 210 miliona žena želi

were saying they wanted access to contraceptives,

da im sredstva za kontracepciju budu dostupna

even the contraceptives we have here in the United States,

čak i ona koja imamo ovde u Americi,

and we weren't providing them

a mi im to nismo omogućavali

because of the political controversy in our country,

zbog političke polemike u zemlji

and to me that was just a crime,

i za mene je to bilo ravno zločinu

and I kept looking around trying to find the person

pa sam tragala za osobom

that would get this back on the global stage,

koja bi mogla to da vrati na globalnu scenu

and I finally realized I just had to do it.

i konačno sam shvatila da to moram sama.

And even though I'm Catholic,

I iako sam katolkinja

I believe in contraceptives

verujem u kontracepciju

just like most of the Catholic women in the United States

kao i većina katolkinja u Americi

who report using contraceptives,

koje su izjavile da je koriste.

and I shouldn't let that controversy

I nisam smela da dozvolim

be the thing that holds us back.

da nas ta polemika zaustavi.

We used to have consensus in the United States

Ranije smo u Americi po tom pitanju

around contraceptives,

imali koncenzus

and so we got back to that global consensus,

a zatim smo se okrenuli globalnom koncenzusu

and actually raised 2.6 billion dollars

i prikupili 2,6 milijardi dolara

around exactly this issue for women.

upravo na ovom problemu.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

CA: Bill, this is your graph. What's this about?

KA: Bile, ovo je tvoj grafikon. O čemu je ovde reč?

BG: Well, my graph has numbers on it.

BG: Pa, moj grafikon sadrži brojeve.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

I really like this graph.

Baš mi se sviđa ovaj grafikon.

This is the number of children

Ovo predstavlja broj dece

who die before the age of five every year.

koja umru pre svoje pete godine.

And what you find is really

A ono što vidite je, u stvari,

a phenomenal success story

jedna fenomenalna priča o uspehu

which is not widely known,

o kojem se ne zna puno,

that we are making incredible progress.

a to je da smo neverovatno napredovali.

We go from 20 million

Došli smo sa 20 miliona,

not long after I was born

nedugo pošto sam ja rođen,

to now we're down to about six million.

do nekih 6 miliona sada.

So this is a story

Tako da je ovo u velikoj meri

largely of vaccines.

priča o vakcinama.

Smallpox was killing a couple million kids a year.

Na milione dece je umiralo svake godine od boginja.

That was eradicated, so that got down to zero.

To je iskorenjeno, tako da je broj sada nula.

Measles was killing a couple million a year.

Od malih boginja umirali su milioni.

That's down to a few hundred thousand.

Sada je to nekoliko stotina hiljada.

Anyway, this is a chart

Uglavnom, ovo je tabela

where you want to get that number to continue,

gde taj trend treba da se nastavi

and it's going to be possible,

i to će biti moguće

using the science of new vaccines,

korišćenjem novih vakcina

getting the vaccines out to kids.

i davanjem deci.

We can actually accelerate the progress.

Mi zapravo možemo da ubrzamo to.

The last decade,

Poslednjih deset godina,

that number has dropped faster

taj broj je je opao brže

than ever in history,

nego ikada u istoriji,

and so I just love the fact that

i volim što mogu da kažem,

you can say, okay, if we can invent new vaccines,

u redu, ako možemo da izmislimo nove vakcine,

we can get them out there,

možemo i da ih dostavimo tamo,

use the very latest understanding of these things,

da upotrebimo najnovija saznanja o njima,

and get the delivery right, that we can perform a miracle.

i da ih pravilno damo, da bismo mogli da izvedemo čudo.

CA: I mean, you do the math on this,

KA: Kad se ovo izračuna

and it works out, I think, literally

dođe se do toga da se, bukvalno,

to thousands of kids' lives saved every day

hiljade dečjih života spasi svakog dana

compared to the prior year.

u poređenju sa prethodnom godinom.

It's not reported.

O tome se nigde ne piše.

An airliner with 200-plus deaths

Avionska nesreća sa više od 200 poginulih

is a far, far bigger story than that.

je daleko važnija priča od ove.

Does that drive you crazy?

Da li te to nervira?

BG: Yeah, because it's a silent thing going on.

BG: Da, zato što se to dešava u tišini.

It's a kid, one kid at a time.

U pitanju je dete, jedno po jedno.

Ninety-eight percent of this

98% slučajeva nema nikakve veze

has nothing to do with natural disasters,

sa prirodnim katastrofama, a ipak,

and yet, people's charity,

kad vide prirodnu katastrofu,

when they see a natural disaster, are wonderful.

ljudska humanost je zadivljujuća.

It's incredible how people think, okay,

Neverovatno je kako ljudi razmišljaju,

that could be me, and the money flows.

okej, to sam mogao biti ja, i novac stiže.

These causes have been a bit invisible.

Ovi problemi su bili pomalo nevidljivi.

Now that the Millennium Development Goals

Sada kada postoje Milenijumski ciljevi razvoja

and various things are getting out there,

i razne druge stvari,

we are seeing some increased generosity,

primećujemo da velikodušnost raste,

so the goal is to get this well below a million,

tako da je cilj da se to smanji daleko ispod milion,

which should be possible in our lifetime.

što bi trebalo biti moguće za vreme našeg života.

CA: Maybe it needed someone

KA: Možda je trebalo

who is turned on by numbers and graphs

da se uposli neko ko voli cifre i grafikone

rather than just the big, sad face

umesto nekog nekog poznatog,

to get engaged.

tužnog lica.

I mean, you've used it in your letter this year,

To si napisao u svom pismu ove godine,

you used basically this argument to say that aid,

upravo ovaj argument gde kažeš da je pomoć,

contrary to the current meme

suprotno ustaljenom mišljenju

that aid is kind of worthless and broken,

da je beskorisna i neredovna,

that actually it has been effective.

u stvari, bila vrlo efikasna.

BG: Yeah, well people can take,

BG: Da, ljudi mogu da razumeju

there is some aid that was well-meaning

da ima dobronamerne pomoći

and didn't go well.

koja nije ispala kako treba.

There's some venture capital investments

Bilo je kapitalnih investicija

that were well-meaning and didn't go well.

koje su bile dobronamerne i nisu uspele.

You shouldn't just say, okay, because of that,

Ne bi trebalo zbog toga,

because we don't have a perfect record,

što nismo imali savršene rezultate, reći da je to

this is a bad endeavor.

bio uzaludan napor.

You should look at, what was your goal?

Treba gledati na to šta je cilj.

How are you trying to uplift nutrition

Kako poboljšati ishranu,

and survival and literacy

opstanak i opismenjavanje, da bi se ove zemlje

so these countries can take care of themselves,

mogle brinuti same o sebi,

and say wow, this is going well,

da možemo da kažemo, ovo ide kako treba

and be smarter.

i da budemo pametniji.

We can spend aid smarter.

Možemo pametnije da iskoristimo pomoć.

It is not all a panacea.

Nije svaki lek univerzalan.

We can do better than venture capital, I think,

Možemo učiniti mnogo više od riskantnih kapitala

including big hits like this.

uključujući i ovako važne stvari.

CA: Traditional wisdom is that

KA: Uvreženo je mišljenje da je

it's pretty hard for married couples to work together.

bračnim parovima teško da rade zajedno.

How have you guys managed it?

Kako vi to uspevate?

MG: Yeah, I've had a lot of women say to me,

MG: Da, dosta žena mi je reklo:

"I really don't think I could work with my husband.

"Mislim da ne bih mogla da radim

That just wouldn't work out."

sa svojim mužem. To ne bi funkcionisalo".

You know, we enjoy it, and we don't --

Znate, mi u tome uživamo i -

this foundation has been a coming to for both of us

ova fondacija je bila osvešćenje za oboje

in its continuous learning journey,

u smislu neprestanog učenja

and we don't travel together as much

i mi ne putujemo toliko zajedno

for the foundation, actually, as we used to

zbog fondacije, kao nekad dok je Bil

when Bill was working at Microsoft.

radio u Majkrosoftu.

We have more trips where we're traveling separately,

Na većinu putovanja idemo odvojeno,

but I always know when I come home,

ali ja znam da, kad dođem kući,

Bill's going to be interested in what I learned,

Bil će se interesovati za to što sam saznala,

whether it's about women or girls

bilo da je reč o ženama

or something new about the vaccine delivery chain,

ili devojčicama ili nečem novom o lancu dostave vakcina,

or this person that is a great leader.

ili o nekome ko je sjajan lider.

He's going to listen and be really interested.

On će saslušati i biti iskreno zainteresovan.

And he knows when he comes home,

I on zna, kad se vrati kući, čak

even if it's to talk about the speech he did

i ako je u pitanju govor koji je održao

or the data or what he's learned,

ili podaci ili nešto što je naučio,

I'm really interested,

da sam ja veoma zainteresovana,

and I think we have a really collaborative relationship.

i mislim da lepo sarađujemo.

But we don't every minute together, that's for sure.

Ali naravno da ne provodimo svaki minut zajedno.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: But now you are, and we're very happy that you are.

KA: Ali, sada provodite, i drago nam je zbog toga.

Melinda, early on, you were basically

Melinda, ti si ranije gotovo sve

largely running the show.

sama vodila.

Six years ago, I guess,

Čini mi se da je Bil,

Bill came on full time, so moved from Microsoft

pre šest godina, prešao iz Majkrosofta

and became full time.

i počeo da radi za stalno.

That must have been hard,

Sigurno je bilo teško prilagoditi se tome. Zar ne?

adjusting to that. No?

MG: Yeah. I think actually,

MG: Da. U stvari, mislim

for the foundation employees,

da su zaposleni u fondaciji

there was way more angst for them

više strahovali zbog Bilovog dolaska nego ja.

than there was for me about Bill coming.

Ja sam zapravo bila

I was actually really excited.

zaista uzbuđena.

I mean, Bill made this decision

Mislim, Bil je doneo tu odluku

even obviously before it got announced in 2006,

pre nego što je zvanično objavljeno 2006,

and it was really his decision,

i to je bila zaista njegova odluka,

but again, it was a beach vacation

ali ponavljam, to je bilo na odmoru

where we were walking on the beach

kada smo se šetali plažom

and he was starting to think of this idea.

i kad je počeo da razmišlja o ovome.

And for me, the excitement of Bill

Što se mene tiče, to što će Bil

putting his brain and his heart

iskoristiti svoju pamet i plemenitost

against these huge global problems,

za rešavanje ovih globalnih problema

these inequities, to me that was exciting.

i nepravdi, bilo uzbudljivo.

Yes, the foundation employees had angst about that.

Da, zaposleni u fondaciji su strahovali zbog toga.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

CA: That's cool.

KA: To je sjajno.

MG: But that went away within three months,

MG: Ali, to je prošlo tri meseca

once he was there.

pošto je on došao.

BG: Including some of the employees.

BG: Uključujući i neke zaposlene.

MG: That's what I said, the employees,

MG: To sam i rekla, za njih,

it went away for them three months after you were there.

to ih je prošlo tri meseca pošto si došao.

BG: No, I'm kidding. MG: Oh, you mean, the employees didn't go away.

BG: Ne, šalim se. MG: Misliš, zaposleni su otišli.

BG: A few of them did, but —

BG: Neki od njih jesu, ali -

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

CA: So what do you guys argue about?

KA: Oko čega se vas dvoje raspravljate?

Sunday, 11 o'clock,

Nedelja je, 11 sati,

you're away from work,

niste na poslu,

what comes up? What's the argument?

šta bude tema? O čemu diskutujete?

BG: Because we built this thing

BG: Zbog toga što smo gradili ovo

together from the beginning,

zajedno od početka,

it's this great partnership.

to ga čini sjajnim partnerstvom.

I had that with Paul Allen

To sam imao sa Polom Alenom

in the early days of Microsoft.

u prvim danima Majkrosofta.

I had it with Steve Ballmer as Microsoft got bigger,

Imao sam i sa Stivom Balmerom kad se Majkrosoft razvio,

and now Melinda, and in even stronger,

i sada je Melinda partner, u mnogo jačem,

equal ways, is the partner,

jednakom smislu.

so we talk a lot about

Tako da mnogo razgovaramo o tome

which things should we give more to,

gde treba da damo više,

which groups are working well?

koje grupe rade dobro.

She's got a lot of insight.

Ona je dosta upućena.

She'll sit down with the employees a lot.

Dosta razgovara sa zaposlenima.

We'll take the different trips she described.

Ne putujemo zajedno, kao što je rekla.

So there's a lot of collaboration.

Tako da puno sarađujemo.

I can't think of anything where one of us

Ne mogu da se setim

had a super strong opinion

da se ikada jedno od nas držalo

about one thing or another?

svog čvrstog stava o nečemu.

CA: How about you, Melinda, though? Can you? (Laughter)

KA: A ti, Melinda? Možeš li ti? (Smeh)

You never know.

Nikad se ne zna.

MG: Well, here's the thing.

MG: Evo u čemu je stvar.

We come at things from different angles,

Pristupamo stvarima iz različitih uglova,

and I actually think that's really good.

i ja mislim da je to zapravo dobro.

So Bill can look at the big data

Bil će pregledati važne podatke

and say, "I want to act based on these global statistics."

i reći će: "Vodiću se ovim globalnim statistikama."

For me, I come at it from intuition.

A ja svemu prilazim intuitivno.

I meet with lots of people on the ground

Susrećem se sa velikim brojem ljudi

and Bill's taught me to take that

i Bil me je naučio da ta iskustva

and read up to the global data and see if they match,

i globalne podatke upoređujem, a mislim da sam

and I think what I've taught him

ja njega naučila

is to take that data

da te podatke iskoristi

and meet with people on the ground to understand,

u susretima s ljudima da razume,

can you actually deliver that vaccine?

mozeš li ti uopšte da daš tu vakcinu?

Can you get a woman to accept those polio drops

Možeš li da nateraš ženu da njeno dete primi oralnu vakcinu

in her child's mouth?

protiv dečje paralize?

Because the delivery piece

Zato što je davanje vakcina

is every bit as important as the science.

važno gotovo isto kao i nauka.

So I think it's been more a coming to over time

Tako da mislim da smo tokom vremena prihvatili

towards each other's point of view,

stavove onog drugog

and quite frankly, the work is better because of it.

i iskreno, naš rad je mnogo bolji zbog toga.

CA: So, in vaccines and polio and so forth,

KA: Dakle, imali ste neverovatan uspeh

you've had some amazing successes.

što se tiče vakcina i dečje paralize i ostalog.

What about failure, though?

Šta je sa neuspesima?

Can you talk about a failure

Možete li da kažete nešto o tome

and maybe what you've learned from it?

i šta ste eventualno iz toga naučili?

BG: Yeah. Fortunately, we can afford a few failures,

BG: Da. Na sreću, možemo da priuštimo par neuspeha,

because we've certainly had them.

jer smo ih naravno, imali.

We do a lot of drug work or vaccine work

Puno radimo sa lekovima i vakcinama

that you know you're going to have different failures.

i očekivano je da ćemo imati razne neuspehe. Na primer,

Like, we put out, one that got a lot of publicity

u jednom od projekata s najviše publiciteta

was asking for a better condom.

tražio se bolji kondom.

Well, we got hundreds of ideas.

I imali smo na hiljade ideja.

Maybe a few of those will work out.

Možda će samo nekoliko njih ispasti dobro.

We were very naïve, certainly I was, about a drug

Bili smo prilično naivni, barem ja, u vezi sa lekom

for a disease in India, visceral leishmaniasis,

protiv visceralne lajšmanijaze u Indiji, jer sam mislio

that I thought, once I got this drug,

da kad jednom dobijemo lek,

we can just go wipe out the disease.

bolest će samo nestati.

Well, turns out it took an injection

Ispostavilo se da je bilo potrebno primati injekciju

every day for 10 days.

svaki dan tokom 10 dana.

It took three more years to get it than we expected,

Trebalo je 3 godine više nego što smo očekivali

and then there was no way

i opet nije bilo moguće

it was going to get out there.

da se sasvim iskoreni.

Fortunately, we found out

Na sreću, otkrili smo da

that if you go kill the sand flies,

ako uništimo peščane mušice,

you probably can have success there,

verovatno ćemo imati uspeha,

but we spent five years,

ali trebalo nam je pet godina.

you could say wasted five years,

moglo bi se reći uzalud

and about 60 million,

i oko 60 miliona, za nešto

on a path that turned out to have

što je na kraju imalo

very modest benefit when we got there.

veoma skromne rezultate.

CA: You're spending, like, a billion dollars a year

KA: Vi trošite oko milijardu dolara godišnje

in education, I think, something like that.

na obrazovanje, čini mi se.

Is anything, the story of what's gone right there

Priča o onome što ste tu prošli

is quite a long and complex one.

je prilično duga i složena.

Are there any failures that you can talk about?

Kakvih neuspeha je tu bilo?

MG: Well, I would say a huge lesson for us

MG: Važna lekcija koju smo naučili

out of the early work is we thought

u početku je što smo mislili

that these small schools were the answer,

da su manje škole rešenje, a manje škole

and small schools definitely help.

su definitivno od pomoći.

They bring down the dropout rate.

Tu je stopa napuštanja manja.

They have less violence and crime in those schools.

Ima manje nasilja i kriminala.

But the thing that we learned from that work,

Ali ono što smo naučili

and what turned out to be the fundamental key,

i što se ispostavilo kao ključno,

is a great teacher in front of the classroom.

jeste dobar učitelj u učionici.

If you don't have an effective teacher

Ako nemate uspešnog učitelja

in the front of the classroom,

u učionici,

I don't care how big or small the building is,

nebitno da li je škola mala ili velika,

you're not going to change the trajectory

ne možete uticati na to

of whether that student will be ready for college.

da li će učenik biti spreman za koledž.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

CA: So Melinda, this is you and

KA: Melinda, ovo ste ti

your eldest daughter, Jenn.

i tvoja najstarija ćerka, Džen.

And just taken about three weeks ago, I think,

Slika je od pre 3 nedelje, čini mi se,

three or four weeks ago. Where was this?

pre 3 ili 4 nedelje. Gde je nastala?

MG: So we went to Tanzania.

MG: Išli smo u Tanzaniju.

Jenn's been to Tanzania.

Džen je bila tamo.

All our kids have been to Africa quite a bit, actually.

Sva naša deca su često išla u Afriku.

And we did something very different,

Ovog puta smo uradili nešto drugačije.

which is, we decided to go spend

Odlučili smo da provedemo

two nights and three days with a family.

dva dana i tri noći sa jednom porodicom.

Anna and Sanare are the parents.

Ana i Sanari su roditelji.

They invited us to come and stay in their boma.

Pozvali su nas da boravimo u njihovoj kolibi. U stvari,

Actually, the goats had been there, I think,

mislim da su tu živele koze,

living in that particular little hut

baš u toj maloj kolibi,

on their little compound before we got there.

pre nego što smo mi došli.

And we stayed with their family,

I boravili smo sa porodicom,

and we really, really learned

i zaista smo, ali zaista naučili

what life is like in rural Tanzania.

kako izgleda život u ruralnoj Tanzaniji.

And the difference between just going

A razlika između

and visiting for half a day

odlaska na pola dana

or three quarters of a day

ili tri četrvtine dana

versus staying overnight was profound,

u odnosu na ostanak preko noći je velika

and so let me just give you one explanation of that.

i sada ću vam objasniti nešto. Oni imaju šestoro dece,

They had six children, and as I talked to Anna

i dok sam razgovarala sa Anom

in the kitchen, we cooked for about five hours

u kuhinji, kuvale smo otprilike 5 sati

in the cooking hut that day,

taj dan u kolibi za kuvanje,

and as I talked to her, she had absolutely planned

i dok smo pričale, ona je sa mužem

and spaced with her husband

potpuno isplanirala kada da rodi

the births of their children.

i koliku će razliku napraviti među decom.

It was a very loving relationship.

Oni se mnogo vole.

This was a Maasai warrior and his wife,

U pitanju su Masai ratnik i njegova žena,

but they had decided to get married,

ali oni su odlučili da se uzmu,

they clearly had respect and love in the relationship.

i među njima definitivno postoji poštovanje i ljubav.

Their children, their six children,

Od njihovo šestoro dece,

the two in the middle were twins, 13,

ovo dvoje u sredini su blizanci, od 13 godina,

a boy, and a girl named Grace.

dečak, i devojčica Grejs.

And when we'd go out to chop wood

I mi bismo išli da cepamo drva,

and do all the things that Grace and her mother would do,

da radimo sve ono što Grejs i njena majka rade,

Grace was not a child, she was an adolescent,

Grejs nije bila dete, bila je adolescent,

but she wasn't an adult.

ali nije bila odrasla osoba.

She was very, very shy.

Bila je veoma, veoma stidljiva.

So she kept wanting to talk to me and Jenn.

Htela je da priča sa mnom i sa Džen.

We kept trying to engage her, but she was shy.

Pokušavale smo da je podstaknemo, ali se stidela.

And at night, though,

Pa ipak, te noći,

when all the lights went out in rural Tanzania,

kada je nestalo svetla u ruralnoj Tanzaniji,

and there was no moon that night,

a nije bilo ni meseca,

the first night, and no stars,

prva noć, bez zvezda,

and Jenn came out of our hut

i Džen je izašla iz naše kolibe

with her REI little headlamp on,

sa lampom koja se nosi na glavi

Grace went immediately,

a Grejs je odmah pošla za njom,

and got the translator,

dovela prevodioca,

came straight up to my Jenn and said,

stala ispred Džen i rekla joj:

"When you go home,

"Kad budeš pošla kući,

can I have your headlamp

mogu li ja da dobijem

so I can study at night?"

tvoju lampu da mogu da učim noću?"

CA: Oh, wow.

KA: O, neverovatno.

MG: And her dad had told me

MG: A njen otac mi je rekao

how afraid he was that unlike the son,

da se plaši da, za razliku od sina,

who had passed his secondary exams,

koji je položio završne ispite

because of her chores,

zbog obaveza oko kuće

she'd not done so well

ona neće proći tako dobro,

and wasn't in the government school yet.

a još uvek nije u državnoj školi.

He said, "I don't know how I'm going to pay for her education.

Rekao je: "Ne znam kako ću da platim školovanje.

I can't pay for private school,

Ne mogu da platim privatnu školu,

and she may end up on this farm like my wife."

a ona može da završi na farmi kao moja žena."

So they know the difference

Tako da znaju razliku koju daje obrazovanje,

that an education can make

in a huge, profound way.

i to veoma.

CA: I mean, this is another pic

KA: Dakle, sledeća slika je

of your other two kids, Rory and Phoebe,

tvoje drugo dvoje dece, Rorija i Fibi.

along with Paul Farmer.

zajedno sa Polom Farmerom.

Bringing up three children

Odgajanje troje dece

when you're the world's richest family

kad si najbogatiji na svetu

seems like a social experiment

liči na društveni eksperiment

without much prior art.

bez presedana.

How have you managed it?

Kako ste se snašli?

What's been your approach?

Koje metode ste koristili?

BG: Well, I'd say overall

BG: Pa, rekao bih da su deca

the kids get a great education,

dobila sjajno obrazovanje,

but you've got to make sure

ali se treba postarati

they have a sense of their own ability

i da budu svesni svojih sposobnosti i onoga što će da rade,

and what they're going to go and do,

and our philosophy has been

a naša filozofija je bila da budemo

to be very clear with them --

iskreni prema njima -

most of the money's going to the foundation --

veći deo novca ide u fondaciju -

and help them find something they're excited about.

i da im pomognemo da pronađu ono što vole.

We want to strike a balance where they have

Želimo da održimo balans

the freedom to do anything

između slobode da rade šta žele

but not a lot of money showered on them

ali da ih ne obasipamo novcem

so they could go out and do nothing.

tako da na kraju odu i ne rade ništa.

And so far, they're fairly diligent,

Za sada su prilično vredni

excited to pick their own direction.

i uzbuđeni što mogu da biraju svoj put.

CA: You've obviously guarded their privacy carefully for obvious reasons.

KA: Vi ste pazili na njihovu privatnost iz očiglednih razloga.

I'm curious why you've given me permission

Zanima me zašto ste mi dali dozvolu

to show this picture now here at TED.

da pokažem ove slike na TED-u.

MG: Well, it's interesting.

MG: To je zanimljivo.

As they get older, they so know

Što su stariji, više razumeju

that our family belief is about responsibility,

da porodično verujemo u odgovornost,

that we are in an unbelievable situation

i da smo u odličnoj situaciji

just to live in the United States

samim tim što živimo u Americi

and have a great education,

i imamo odlično obrazovanje,

and we have a responsibility to give back to the world.

i imamo odgovornost da uzvratimo svetu.

And so as they get older

I što su stariji

and we are teaching them --

mi ih učimo -

they have been to so many countries around the world —

bili su u mnogo zemalja u svetu -

they're saying,

oni kažu,

we do want people to know that we believe

želimo da ljudi znaju da mi verujemo

in what you're doing, Mom and Dad,

u ono što vi radite,

and it is okay to show us more.

mama i tata, i treba da nas pokažete više.

So we have their permission to show this picture,

Tako da imamo njihovu dozvolu da pokažemo slike i mislim

and I think Paul Farmer is probably going to put it

da će Pol Farmer verovatno

eventually in some of his work.

da ih upotrebi jednog dana u svom radu.

But they really care deeply

Ali njima je takođe

about the mission of the foundation, too.

zaista stalo do misije ove fondacije.

CA: You've easily got enough money

KA: Vi imate dovoljno novca,

despite your vast contributions to the foundation

uprkos velikim doprinosima fondaciji,

to make them all billionaires.

da od njih napravite milijardere.

Is that your plan for them?

Je li to vaš plan za njih?

BG: Nope. No. They won't have anything like that.

BG: Ne. Nikako. Neće imati ništa od toga.

They need to have a sense

Oni moraju da imaju svest

that their own work is meaningful and important.

da je njihov rad važan i značajan.

We read an article long, actually, before we got married,

Čitali smo članak o tome pre nego što smo se venčali,

where Warren Buffett talked about that,

gde je Voren Bafet govorio o tome,

and we're quite convinced that it wasn't a favor

i bili smo uvereni da se time

either to society or to the kids.

ne čini usluga ni društvu ni deci.

CA: Well, speaking of Warren Buffett,

KA: Kad smo već kod Vorena Bafeta,

something really amazing happened in 2006,

nešto neverovatno se dogodilo 2006,

when somehow your only real rival

kada se tvoj jedini rival

for richest person in America

za najbogatijeg čoveka u Americi

suddenly turned around and agreed to give

odjednom promenio

80 percent of his fortune

i rešio da da 80 odsto svog bogatstva

to your foundation.

tvojoj fondaciji.

How on Earth did that happen?

Kako se to uopšte dogodilo?

I guess there's a long version and a short version of that.

Verovatno ima duga i kratka verzija.

We've got time for the short version.

Mi imamo vremena za kratku.

BG: All right. Well, Warren was a close friend,

BG: U redu. Pa, Voren je bio blizak prijatelj

and he was going to have his wife Suzie

i on je hteo da njegova žena Suzi

give it all away.

sve to pokloni.

Tragically, she passed away before he did,

Nažalost, ona je umrla pre njega,

and he's big on delegation, and

a on veruje u izvršavanje zadataka,

— (Laughter) —

- (Smeh) -

he said —

i rekao je -

CA: Tweet that.

BG: If he's got somebody who is doing something well,

KA: Tvitujte ovo.

BG: Ako ima nekoga ko je dobar u nečemu,

and is willing to do it at no charge,

i želi to da uradi bez naknade,

maybe that's okay. But we were stunned.

to je u redu. Ali mi smo bili zatečeni.

MG: Totally stunned. BG: We had never expected it,

MG: Zaista zatečeni. BG: Nismo to očekivali,

and it has been unbelievable.

i bilo je neverovatno.

It's allowed us to increase our ambition

To je omogućilo da nam ambicije drastično porastu

in what the foundation can do quite dramatically.

u smislu onoga što fondacija može da uradi.

Half the resources we have

Polovina sredstava koje imamo

come from Warren's mind-blowing generosity.

je Vorenova neverovatna velikodušnost.

CA: And I think you've pledged that

KA: A čini mi se

by the time you're done,

da si obećao, kad ne budeš više radio,

more than, or 95 percent of your wealth,

da ćeš više od, ili 95% tvog bogatstva,

will be given to the foundation.

pokloniti fondaciji.

BG: Yes.

BG: Da.

CA: And since this relationship, it's amazing—

KA: A s obzirom na ovaj odnos, to je neverovatno -

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

And recently, you and Warren

A nedavno ste ti i Voren

have been going around trying to persuade

pokušavali da ubedite

other billionaires and successful people

ostale milijardere i uspešne ljude

to pledge to give, what,

da obećaju da će dati

more than half of their assets for philanthropy.

više od pola svojih sredstava u dobrotvorne svrhe.

How is that going?

Kako to napreduje?

BG: Well, we've got about 120 people

BG: Pa, za sada je oko 120 ljudi

who have now taken this giving pledge.

dalo obećanje.

The thing that's great is that we get together

Ono što je sjajno je da se mi sastajemo

yearly and talk about, okay,

jednom godišnje i razgovaramo,

do you hire staff, what do you give to them?

zapošljavaš li radnike, šta im daješ?

We're not trying to homogenize it.

Ne želimo da homogenizujemo.

I mean, the beauty of philanthropy

Lepota filantropije je u neverovatnoj raznolikosti.

is this mind-blowing diversity.

People give to some things.

Daje se za razne stvari.

We look and go, "Wow."

Mi vidimo i kažemo: "Opa!"

But that's great.

Ali to je divno.

That's the role of philanthropy

To i jeste

is to pick different approaches,

uloga finatropije, da odabere različite pristupe,

including even in one space, like education.

čak i one u jednoj oblasti, poput obrazovanja.

We need more experimentation.

Potrebno je više eksperimentisanja.

But it's been wonderful, meeting those people,

Ali bilo je divno upoznati te ljude,

sharing their journey to philanthropy,

deliti njihov put ka filantropiji,

how they involve their kids,

kako uključuju svoju decu,

where they're doing it differently,

način na koji to rade,

and it's been way more successful than we expected.

i bilo je mnogo uspešnije nego što smo očekivali.

Now it looks like it'll just keep growing in size

Izgleda da će s godinama

in the years ahead.

taj broj samo rasti.

MG: And having people see that other people

MG: I kada ljudi vide da drugi

are making change with philanthropy,

nešto menjaju filantropijom,

I mean, these are people who have

ljudi koji su

created their own businesses,

stvorili sopstveni biznis,

put their own ingenuity behind incredible ideas.

čija genijalnost stoji iza neverovatnih ideja.

If they put their ideas and their brain

Ako svojim idejama i pameću stanu

behind philanthropy, they can change the world.

iza filantropije, onda mogu promeniti svet.

And they start to see others doing it, and saying,

Kada vide druge da to rade i govore:

"Wow, I want to do that with my own money."

"Opa, i ja želim to da uradim sa svojim novcem."

To me, that's the piece that's incredible.

Za mene je to nešto neverovatno.

CA: It seems to me, it's actually really hard

KA: Rekao bih da je nekim ljudima

for some people to figure out

prilično teško da smisle

even how to remotely spend that much money

kako da uopšte potroše

on something else.

toliki novac na nešto drugo.

There are probably some billionaires in the room

Verovatno u ovoj prostoriji ima milijardera

and certainly some successful people.

i sasvim sigurno uspešnih ljudi.

I'm curious, can you make the pitch?

Zanima me, možete li da ih ubedite?

What's the pitch?

Kako to radite?

BG: Well, it's the most fulfilling thing

BG: Pa, to što smo uradili

we've ever done,

nam je donelo najveće ispunjenje,

and you can't take it with you,

a to ne možeš da poneseš sa sobom,

and if it's not good for your kids,

a ako to nije dobro za našu decu,

let's get together and brainstorm

treba da sednemo i razmislimo

about what we can be done.

o onome što možemo da uradimo.

The world is a far better place

Svet je mnogo bolje mesto

because of the philanthropists of the past,

zahvaljujući filantropima

and the U.S. tradition here, which is the strongest,

a Amerika u tome ima jaku tradiciju,

is the envy of the world.

zbog čega joj zavidi ceo svet.

And part of the reason I'm so optimistic

A razlog mom optimizmu

is because I do think philanthropy

je što mislim da će filantropija

is going to grow

tek da se razvija

and take some of these things

i preuzme neke stvari

government's not just good at working on and discovering

na čijem radu i otkrivanju vlada jednostavno nije dobra

and shine some light in the right direction.

i da će pokazati put u pravom smeru.

CA: The world's got this terrible inequality,

KA: U svetu postoji strahovita nejednakost,

growing inequality problem

problem koji je u porastu

that seems structural.

i koji je strukturni.

It does seem to me that if more of your peers

Čini mi se da, ako bi više

took the approach that you two have made,

ljudi poput vas postupilo kao vi,

it would make a dent

to bi ostavilo traga

both in that problem and certainly

kako na taj problem,

in the perception of that problem.

tako i na njegovu percepciju.

Is that a fair comment?

Jesam li u pravu?

BG: Oh yeah. If you take from the most wealthy

BG: O, da. Ako uzmete

and give to the least wealthy, it's good.

od najbogatijih i date najsiromašnijima, to je dobro.

It tries to balance out, and that's just.

Tako će doći do balansa.

MG: But you change systems.

MG: Ali tako menjate sistem.

In the U.S., we're trying to change the education system

U Americi pokušavamo da promenimo obrazovni sistem

so it's just for everybody

koji je pravedan za sve

and it works for all students.

i koji koristi svim učenicima.

That, to me, really changes

To, po mom mišljenju dovodi

the inequality balance.

nejednakost u ravnotežu.

BG: That's the most important.

BG: A to je najvažnije.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

CA: Well, I really think that most people here

KA: Pa, rekao bih da je većina ljudi ovde

and many millions around the world

i nekoliko miliona širom sveta

are just in awe of the trajectory

zadivljena putem

your lives have taken

kojim je vaš život krenuo

and the spectacular degree to which

i impresivnim stupnjem

you have shaped the future.

na koji ste doveli budućnost. Hvala što ste

Thank you so much for coming to TED

došli na TED da podelite ovo

and for sharing with us and for all you do.

i hvala na svemu što radite.

BG: Thank you. MG: Thank you.

BG: Hvala. MG: Hvala.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

BG: Thank you. MG: Thank you very much.

BG: Hvala. MG: Hvala mnogo.

BG: All right, good job. (Applause)

BG: U redu, bilo je odlično. (Aplauz)