Why giving away our wealth has been the most satisfying thing we've done... | Bill and Melinda Gates

Prevoditelj: Ivan Stamenković

Chris Anderson: So, this is an interview with a difference.

Chris Anderson: Dakle, ovo je intervju s razlikom.

On the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words,

Na osnovi da slika vrijedi tisuću riječi

what I did was, I asked Bill and Melinda

ja sam zamolio Billa i Melindu

to dig out from their archive

da iskopaju iz svoje arhive

some images that would help explain

neke slike koje bi pomogle objasniti

some of what they've done,

neke stvari koje su radili,

and do a few things that way.

i napraviti par stvari na taj način.

So, we're going to start here.

Počet ćemo ovdje.

Melinda, when and where was this,

Melinda, gdje i kada je ovo bilo,

and who is that handsome man next to you?

i tko je ovaj zgodni muškarac pored tebe?

Melinda Gates: With those big glasses, huh?

Melinda Gates: Sa onim velikim naočalama, ha?

This is in Africa, our very first trip,

Ovo je u Africi, na našem prvom putovanju,

the first time either of us had ever been to Africa,

prvi put da je ijedno od nas bilo u Africi,

in the fall of 1993.

u jesen 1993.

We were already engaged to be married.

Već smo bili zaručeni.

We married a few months later,

Oženili smo se nekoliko mjeseci kasnije,

and this was the trip where we really went to see

i ovo je putovanje na kojem smo išli vidjeti

the animals and to see the savanna.

životinje i savanu.

It was incredible. Bill had never taken that much time

Bilo je nevjerojatno. Bill nikad nije toliko dugo

off from work.

izbivao s posla.

But what really touched us, actually, were the people,

Ali ono što nas je dirnulo, zapravo, bili su ljudi,

and the extreme poverty.

i ekstremno siromaštvo.

We started asking ourselves questions.

Počeli smo se postavljati pitanja.

Does it have to be like this?

Mora li biti tako?

And at the end of the trip,

I na kraju putovanja,

we went out to Zanzibar,

otišli smo do Zanzibara,

and took some time to walk on the beach,

i uzeli malo vremena i šetali po plaži,

which is something we had done a lot

što je nešto što smo često činili

while we were dating.

kad smo izlazili.

And we'd already been talking about during that time

I već smo tada pričali o tome

that the wealth that had come from Microsoft

da će bogatstvo koje je došlo od Microsofta

would be given back to society,

biti vraćeno društvu,

but it was really on that beach walk

ali zapravo smo u toj šetnji plažom

that we started to talk about, well,

počeli pričati o, pa,

what might we do and how might we go about it?

što bi mogli učitni i kako bi to mogli učiniti?

CA: So, given that this vacation

CA: Dakle, budući da je ovaj odmor

led to the creation of

odveo do stvaranja

the world's biggest private foundation,

najveće privatne fondacije na svijetu,

it's pretty expensive as vacations go. (Laughter)

to je poprilično skupo za odmor. (Smijeh)

MG: I guess so. We enjoyed it.

MG: Izgleda. Mi smo uživali.

CA: Which of you was the key instigator here,

CA: Tko je od vas bio glavni pokretač

or was it symmetrical?

ili je bilo simetrično?

Bill Gates: Well, I think we were excited

Bill Gates: Pa, mislim da smo bili uzbuđeni

that there'd be a phase of our life

da će postojati faza u našem životu

where we'd get to work together

kada ćemo raditi skupa

and figure out how to give this money back.

i smisliti kako vratiti ovaj novac.

At this stage, we were talking about the poorest,

U ovom stadiju, pričali smo o najsiromašnijima,

and could you have a big impact on them?

i možemo li imati velik utjecaj na njih?

Were there things that weren't being done?

Postoje li stvari koje se ne čine?

There was a lot we didn't know.

Bilo je puno toga što nismo znali.

Our naïveté is pretty incredible,

Naša naivnost bila je nevjerojatna,

when we look back on it.

kada sad gledamo na to.

But we had a certain enthusiasm

Ali imalo smo entuzijazam

that that would be the phase,

da će to biti faza,

the post-Microsoft phase

faza nakon Microsofta

would be our philanthropy.

bit će naša filantropija.

MG: Which Bill always thought was going to come

MG: Za koju je Bill uvijek mislio da će doći

after he was 60,

nakon šezdesete,

so he hasn't quite hit 60 yet,

no on još nije došao do šezdeset,

so some things change along the way.

pa su se neke stvari mijenjale usput.

CA: So it started there, but it got accelerated.

CA: Dakle počelo je ondje, ali se ubrzalo.

So that was '93, and it was '97, really,

To je bilo 93., a 97. zapravo,

before the foundation itself started.

je pokrenuta fondacija.

MA: Yeah, in '97, we read an article

MG: Da, 97., smo pročitali članak

about diarrheal diseases killing so many kids around the world,

o bolestima s proljevi koje ubijaju puno djece diljem svijeta,

and we kept saying to ourselves,

i govorili smo si,

"Well that can't be.

"Pa to ne može biti.

In the U.S., you just go down to the drug store."

U Americi, samo odete do ljekarne.

And so we started gathering scientists

I počeli smo okupljati znanstvenike

and started learning about population,

i počeli učiti o populaciji,

learning about vaccines,

učiti o cjepivima,

learning about what had worked and what had failed,

učiti o tome što je radilo i što nije,

and that's really when we got going,

i tada smo zapravo krenuli,

was in late 1998, 1999.

kasne 1998., 1999.

CA: So, you've got a big pot of money

CA: Imate velik ćup novca

and a world full of so many different issues.

i svijet pun tako različitih problema.

How on Earth do you decide what to focus on?

Kako se odlučite na što se usredotočiti?

BG: Well, we decided that we'd pick two causes,

BG: Pa, odlučili smo odabrati dvije stvari,

whatever the biggest inequity was globally,

što god je najveća nepravda globalno,

and there we looked at children dying,

i tu smo cvidjeli djecu da umiru,

children not having enough nutrition to ever develop,

djecu bez dovoljno hrane za razvoj,

and countries that were really stuck,

i zemlje koje su doslovno zapele,

because with that level of death,

jer zbog tolike razine smrtnosti,

and parents would have so many kids

i roditelja koji imaju puno djece

that they'd get huge population growth,

velikog rasta populacije,

and that the kids were so sick

i toliko bolesne djecde

that they really couldn't be educated

da se nisu mogli educirati

and lift themselves up.

i izdići se.

So that was our global thing,

To je bila naša globalna stvar,

and then in the U.S.,

i onda, u Americi,

both of us have had amazing educations,

oboje smo imali izvandredno obrazovanje,

and we saw that as the way that the U.S.

i vidjeli smo to kao način da Amerika

could live up to its promise of equal opportunity

ostvari svoje obećanje jednakih prilika

is by having a phenomenal education system,

imajući fenomenalan obrazovni sustav,

and the more we learned, the more we realized

i što smo više učili, shvaćali smo

we're not really fulfilling that promise.

da ne ispunjavamo to obećanje.

And so we picked those two things,

I odabrali smo te dvije stvari,

and everything the foundation does

i sve što fondacija radi

is focused there.

fokusirano je ondje.

CA: So, I asked each of you to pick an image

CA: Pitao sam oboje da odaberete sliku

that you like that illustrates your work,

koju volite, a koja opisuje vaš rad,

and Melinda, this is what you picked.

i Melinda, ovo si ti odabrala.

What's this about?

O čemu se tu radi?

MG: So I, one of the things I love to do when I travel

MG: Jedna od stvari koje volim činiti kada putujem

is to go out to the rural areas and talk to the women,

je otići do ruralnih područja i pričati sa ženama,

whether it's Bangladesh, India, lots of countries in Africa,

bio to Bangladeš, Indija, zemlje u Africi,

and I go in as a Western woman without a name.

i dolazim kao žena sa Zapada, bez imena.

I don't tell them who I am. Pair of khakis.

Ne kažem im tko sam. Par khaki hlača.

And I kept hearing from women,

I slušala sam od žena,

over and over and over, the more I traveled,

ponovno i ponovno i ponovno, što sam više putovala,

"I want to be able to use this shot."

"Želim moći koristiti ovo cjepivo."

I would be there to talk to them about childhood vaccines,

Bila bih tamo i pričala im o cjepivu u djetinjstvu

and they would bring the conversation around to

i oni bi doveli razgovor do

"But what about the shot I get?"

"A što sa cjepivom koje dobivam?"

which is an injection they were getting called Depo-Provera,

a to je injekcija imena Depo-Provera

which is a contraceptive.

koji je kontraceptiv.

And I would come back and talk to global health experts,

I vratila bih se i pričala sa globalnim zdravstvenim stručnjacima

and they'd say, "Oh no, contraceptives

i oni bi rekli, "O ne, kontraceptiva

are stocked in in the developing world."

ima u zemljama u razvoju."

Well, you had to dig deeper into the reports,

Morali smo kopati dublje u izvještajima,

and this is what the team came to me with,

i s ovime mi je tim došao,

which is, to have the number one thing

što je prva stvar

that women tell you in Africa they want to use

koju žene u Africi žele koristiti

stocked out more than 200 days a year

a nema je više od 200 dana u godini,

explains why women were saying to me,

što objašnjava zašto su mi žene govorile,

"I walked 10 kilometers without my husband knowing it,

"Hodala sam 10 kilometare bez znanja supruga,

and I got to the clinic, and there was nothing there."

i došla sam do klinike, i tamo nije bilo ničeg."

And so condoms were stocked in in Africa

I kondoma je bilo u Africi

because of all the AIDS work that the U.S.

zbog svog rada oko AIDS-a koji su SAD

and others supported.

i drugi podržavali.

But women will tell you over and over again,

Ali žene će vam reći opet iznova,

"I can't negotiate a condom with my husband.

"Ne mogu muža nagovoriti na kondom.

I'm either suggesting he has AIDS or I have AIDS,

Sugeriram da on ima AIDS, ili ga ja imam,

and I need that tool because then I can space

i trebam taj alat jer onda mogu rađati

the births of my children, and I can feed them

s razmakom, i mogu hraniti svoju djecu,

and have a chance of educating them."

i imati priliku obrazovati ih."

CA: Melinda, you're Roman Catholic,

CA: Melinda, ti si Rimokatolik,

and you've often been embroiled

i često si bila upletena

in controversy over this issue,

u kontroverze oko ovog pitanja,

and on the abortion question,

i pitanja pobačaja,

on both sides, really.

s obje strane zapravo.

How do you navigate that?

Kako se snalaziš u tome?

MG: Yeah, so I think that's a really important point,

MG: Da, mislim da je to važna poanta,

which is, we had backed away from contraceptives

a to je da smo se odmaknuli od kontraceptiva

as a global community.

kao globalna zajednica.

We knew that 210 million women

Znali smo da 210 milijuna žena

were saying they wanted access to contraceptives,

govori kako želi pristup kontraceptivima,

even the contraceptives we have here in the United States,

čak i kontraceptivi koje imamo u SAD-u

and we weren't providing them

a nisu dostupni

because of the political controversy in our country,

zbog političke kontroverze u našoj zemlji,

and to me that was just a crime,

i za mene je to bio zločin,

and I kept looking around trying to find the person

i nastavila sam tražiti osobu

that would get this back on the global stage,

koja će to vratiti na globalnu pozornicu,

and I finally realized I just had to do it.

i na kraju sam shvatila da ja to moram učiniti.

And even though I'm Catholic,

Iako sam kršćanin,

I believe in contraceptives

vjerujem u kontraceptive

just like most of the Catholic women in the United States

kako većina kršćanskih žena u SAD-u

who report using contraceptives,

koje su prijavile da koriste kontraceptive,

and I shouldn't let that controversy

i ne bih trebala dozvoliti toj kontroverzi

be the thing that holds us back.

da bude stvar koja nas sputava.

We used to have consensus in the United States

Nekad smo u SAD-u imali konsenzus

around contraceptives,

oko kontraceptiva,

and so we got back to that global consensus,

i vratili smo se na globalni konsenzus,

and actually raised 2.6 billion dollars

i zapravo skupili 2.6 milijardi dolara

around exactly this issue for women.

oko točno tog problema za žene.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

CA: Bill, this is your graph. What's this about?

CA: Bill, ovo je tvoj graf. O čemu se tu radi?

BG: Well, my graph has numbers on it.

BG: Pa, moj graf na sebi ima brojke.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

I really like this graph.

Stvarno volim ovaj graf.

This is the number of children

To je broj djece

who die before the age of five every year.

koje umru prije dobi od pet godina, svake godine.

And what you find is really

I ono što nađete je zapravo

a phenomenal success story

fenomenalna priča o uspjehu

which is not widely known,

koja nije tako poznata,

that we are making incredible progress.

da stvaramo nevjerojatan napredak.

We go from 20 million

Od 20 milijuna djece

not long after I was born

nedugo nakon što sam se ja rodio,

to now we're down to about six million.

do otprilike šest milijuna sada.

So this is a story

Dakle, ovo je priča

largely of vaccines.

većinom o cjepivima.

Smallpox was killing a couple million kids a year.

Velike boginje su ubijale dva milijuna djece godišnje.

That was eradicated, so that got down to zero.

To je izbrisano, tako da je to palo na nulu.

Measles was killing a couple million a year.

Ospice su ubijale dva milijuna godišnje.

That's down to a few hundred thousand.

To je sada na nekoliko stotina tisuća.

Anyway, this is a chart

Kako bilo, ovo je graf

where you want to get that number to continue,

gdje želite da taj broj nastavi,

and it's going to be possible,

i to će biti moguće,

using the science of new vaccines,

koristeći znanost novih cjepiva,

getting the vaccines out to kids.

davanjem cjepivba našoj djeci.

We can actually accelerate the progress.

Zapravo, možemo ubrzati napredak.

The last decade,

Posljednje desetljeće,

that number has dropped faster

taj broj je pada brže

than ever in history,

nego ikad u povijesti,

and so I just love the fact that

tako da zaista volim činjenicu da

you can say, okay, if we can invent new vaccines,

možete reći, ok, ako stvorimo nova cjepiva,

we can get them out there,

možemo ih isporučiti,

use the very latest understanding of these things,

koristeći najnovija saznanja o ovome,

and get the delivery right, that we can perform a miracle.

i ako ih isporučimo kako treba, napravit ćemo čudo.

CA: I mean, you do the math on this,

CA: Mislim, možete sami izračunati,

and it works out, I think, literally

i točno je, mislim, doslovno

to thousands of kids' lives saved every day

do tisuća dječjih života spašenih svakog dana

compared to the prior year.

u usporedbi s godinom prije.

It's not reported.

To nije prijavljeno.

An airliner with 200-plus deaths

Zrakoplov sa 200 i više smrti

is a far, far bigger story than that.

je puno, puno veća priča od toga.

Does that drive you crazy?

Da li vas to izluđuje?

BG: Yeah, because it's a silent thing going on.

BG: Da, jer je to tiha stvar koja se događa.

It's a kid, one kid at a time.

To je dijete, jedno po jedno.

Ninety-eight percent of this

Devedeset osam posto ovoga

has nothing to do with natural disasters,

nema veze sa prirodnim katastrofama,

and yet, people's charity,

a ipak, prilozi ljudi,

when they see a natural disaster, are wonderful.

kada vide prirodnu katastrofu, su prekrasni.

It's incredible how people think, okay,

Nevjerojatno je kako ljudi misle, ok,

that could be me, and the money flows.

to bi mogao biti ja, i novac pristiže.

These causes have been a bit invisible.

Ovi ciljevi bili su pomalo nevidljivi.

Now that the Millennium Development Goals

Sad kada Millennium Development Goals

and various things are getting out there,

i druge stvari dolaze do izražaja,

we are seeing some increased generosity,

primjećujemo povećanje u velikodušnosti,

so the goal is to get this well below a million,

tako da je cilj otići daleko ispod milijuna,

which should be possible in our lifetime.

što bi trebalo biti moguće u našem životnom vijeku.

CA: Maybe it needed someone

CA: Možda je trebalo nekoga

who is turned on by numbers and graphs

koga su uzbuđivali brojevi i grafovi

rather than just the big, sad face

umjesto velikih, tužnih lica

to get engaged.

da se uključi.

I mean, you've used it in your letter this year,

Mislim, koristio si to u svom pismu ove godine,

you used basically this argument to say that aid,

doslovno taj argument kako bi rekao da pomoć,

contrary to the current meme

unatoč uvriježenom vjerovanju

that aid is kind of worthless and broken,

da je pomoć bezvrijedna i pokvarena,

that actually it has been effective.

da je zapravo bila korisna.

BG: Yeah, well people can take,

BG: Da, pa ljudi mogu uzeti,

there is some aid that was well-meaning

postoji neka pomoć koja je bila dobronamjerna

and didn't go well.

i nije dobro završila.

There's some venture capital investments

Postoje neke investicije

that were well-meaning and didn't go well.

koje su bile dobronamjerne i nisu dobro završile.

You shouldn't just say, okay, because of that,

Ne treba reći, u redu, zbog ovoga,

because we don't have a perfect record,

jer nemamo savršene rezultate,

this is a bad endeavor.

ovo je loš poduhvat.

You should look at, what was your goal?

Treba gledati na to što ti je bio cilj.

How are you trying to uplift nutrition

Kako pokušavaš poboljšati prehranu

and survival and literacy

i preživljavanje i pismenost

so these countries can take care of themselves,

tako da se ove zemlje mogu brinuti same za sebe,

and say wow, this is going well,

i reći, wow, ovo ide poprilično dobro,

and be smarter.

i biti pametniji.

We can spend aid smarter.

Možemo pametnije trošiti pomoć.

It is not all a panacea.

To nije univerzalni lijek.

We can do better than venture capital, I think,

Možemo bolje od investicijskog kapitala, ja mislim,

including big hits like this.

uključujući velike udarce poput ovoga.

CA: Traditional wisdom is that

CA: Iskustvo nas uči

it's pretty hard for married couples to work together.

da je parovima teško raditi skupa.

How have you guys managed it?

Kako ste vi uspjeli?

MG: Yeah, I've had a lot of women say to me,

MG: Da, puno žena mi je reklo,

"I really don't think I could work with my husband.

"Ne mislim da bih mogla raditi sa suprugom.

That just wouldn't work out."

To jednostavno ne bi funkcioniralo."

You know, we enjoy it, and we don't --

Znate, mi uživamo, i mi ne --

this foundation has been a coming to for both of us

ova fondacija bilo je sazrijavanje za oboje

in its continuous learning journey,

u ovom stalnom putovanju učenja,

and we don't travel together as much

i ne putujemo skupa kao prije

for the foundation, actually, as we used to

zbog fondacije, zapravo, kao što smo nekada

when Bill was working at Microsoft.

kada je Bill radio u Microsoftu.

We have more trips where we're traveling separately,

Više putijemo odvojeni,

but I always know when I come home,

ali znam da kada dođem kući,

Bill's going to be interested in what I learned,

Billa će zanimati što sam naučila,

whether it's about women or girls

bilo da se radi o ženama ili djevojkama

or something new about the vaccine delivery chain,

ili nešto o isporuci cjepiva,

or this person that is a great leader.

ili o nekoj osobi koja je veliki vođa.

He's going to listen and be really interested.

On će slušati i zanimat će ga.

And he knows when he comes home,

I zna da kada on dođe kući,

even if it's to talk about the speech he did

čak i ako želi pričati o govoru koji je dao

or the data or what he's learned,

ili o podacima ili o tome što je naučio,

I'm really interested,

zaista me zanima,

and I think we have a really collaborative relationship.

i mislim da imamo vezu zasnovanu na suradnji.

But we don't every minute together, that's for sure.

Ali nismo svake minute skupa, sigurno.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

CA: But now you are, and we're very happy that you are.

CA: Ali sad jeste, i sretni ste da jeste.

Melinda, early on, you were basically

Melinda, u početku, ti si u osnovi

largely running the show.

vodila cijelu stvar.

Six years ago, I guess,

Prije šest godina, pretpostavljam,

Bill came on full time, so moved from Microsoft

Bill se pridružio u potpunosti, prešao iz Microsofta

and became full time.

i počeo raditi puno radno vrijeme.

That must have been hard,

Sigurno je bilo teško

adjusting to that. No?

prilagoditi se tome. Zar ne?

MG: Yeah. I think actually,

MG: Da, mislim zapravo,

for the foundation employees,

da je za zaposlenike fondacije,

there was way more angst for them

bilo je puno više straha za njih

than there was for me about Bill coming.

nego za mene, zato što Bill dolazi.

I was actually really excited.

Ja sam bila zaista uzbuđena.

I mean, Bill made this decision

Bill je donio ovu odluku

even obviously before it got announced in 2006,

očito i prije nego je najavljena 2006.,

and it was really his decision,

i bila je to stvarno njegova odluka,

but again, it was a beach vacation

ali ponovno, to je bio odmor na plaži

where we were walking on the beach

gdje smo šetali plažom

and he was starting to think of this idea.

i on je počeo razmišljati o ovoj ideji.

And for me, the excitement of Bill

I za mene, uzbuđenje što će Bill

putting his brain and his heart

staviti svoj mozak i srce

against these huge global problems,

nasuprot ovim ogromnim globalnim problemima,

these inequities, to me that was exciting.

ovim nejednakostima, meni je to bilo uzbudljivo.

Yes, the foundation employees had angst about that.

Da, zaposlenici su se bojali.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

CA: That's cool.

CA: To je super.

MG: But that went away within three months,

MG: Ali to se povuklo unutar tri mjeseca,

once he was there.

jednom kad je došao.

BG: Including some of the employees.

BG: Uključujući i neke od zaposlenika.

MG: That's what I said, the employees,

MG: To sam i rekla, zaposlenici,

it went away for them three months after you were there.

strah je otišao nakon tri mjeseca što si bio tamo.

BG: No, I'm kidding. MG: Oh, you mean, the employees didn't go away.

BG: Ma ne, šalim se. MG: O, ti misliš, ma nisu zaposlenici otišli.

BG: A few of them did, but —

BG: Nekoliko njih jest, ali --

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

CA: So what do you guys argue about?

CA: Oko čega se vas dvoje svađate?

Sunday, 11 o'clock,

Nedjelja, 11 sati,

you're away from work,

niste na poslu,

what comes up? What's the argument?

što se pojavi? Koja je rasprava?

BG: Because we built this thing

BG: Jer smo izgradili ovu stvar

together from the beginning,

zajedno iz početka,

it's this great partnership.

ovo je sjajno partnerstvo.

I had that with Paul Allen

Imao sam to sa Paulom Allenom

in the early days of Microsoft.

u ranim danima Microsofta.

I had it with Steve Ballmer as Microsoft got bigger,

Imao sam to sa Steveom Ballmerom kako je Microsoft rastao,

and now Melinda, and in even stronger,

i sada Melinda, na jedan jači,

equal ways, is the partner,

ravnopravniji način je partner,

so we talk a lot about

tako da puno pričamo

which things should we give more to,

o tome kojim stvarima trebamo dati više,

which groups are working well?

koje grupe dobro rade?

She's got a lot of insight.

Ima dobar uvid.

She'll sit down with the employees a lot.

Puno sjedi sa zaposlenicima.

We'll take the different trips she described.

Ići ćemo na razdvojena putovanja kako je opisala.

So there's a lot of collaboration.

Tako da ima puno suradnje.

I can't think of anything where one of us

Ne mogu zamisliti nešto gdje je jedno od nas

had a super strong opinion

imalo jak stav

about one thing or another?

o jednoj ili drugoj stvari?

CA: How about you, Melinda, though? Can you? (Laughter)

CA: A ti Melinda? Možeš li ti? (Smijeh)

You never know.

Nikad ne znaš.

MG: Well, here's the thing.

MG: Pa, ovako stoje stvari.

We come at things from different angles,

Prilazimo stvarima iz različitih kuteva,

and I actually think that's really good.

i ja mislim da je to stvarno dobro.

So Bill can look at the big data

Bill može gledati velike podatke

and say, "I want to act based on these global statistics."

i reći, "Želim djelovati na osnovi ovih globalnih statistika."

For me, I come at it from intuition.

Za mene, ja tome prilazim kroz intuiciju.

I meet with lots of people on the ground

Sastajem se s puno ljudi na terenu

and Bill's taught me to take that

i Bill me naučio da to uzmem

and read up to the global data and see if they match,

i da usporedim sa globalnim podatcima i vidim da li se poklapaju,

and I think what I've taught him

i mislim da sam ga naučila

is to take that data

da uzme te podatke

and meet with people on the ground to understand,

i sastane se s ljudima na terenu da shvati

can you actually deliver that vaccine?

možemo li zaista isporučiti to cjepivo?

Can you get a woman to accept those polio drops

Može li žena prihvatiti te kapi za dječju paralizu

in her child's mouth?

u ustima svoga djeteta?

Because the delivery piece

Jer isporuka

is every bit as important as the science.

je jednako važna kao znanost.

So I think it's been more a coming to over time

Tako da smo s vremenom

towards each other's point of view,

došli na istu točku gledanja,

and quite frankly, the work is better because of it.

i iskreno, posao je puno bolji zbog toga.

CA: So, in vaccines and polio and so forth,

CA: Dakle, cjepiva, dječja paraliza i tako dalje,

you've had some amazing successes.

imali ste neke fantastične uspjehe.

What about failure, though?

Ali što je s neuspjesima?

Can you talk about a failure

Možete li pričati o neuspjehu

and maybe what you've learned from it?

i možda o tome što ste iz njega naučili?

BG: Yeah. Fortunately, we can afford a few failures,

BG: Da. Na sreću, možemo si priuštiti koji neuspjeh

because we've certainly had them.

jer smo ih definitivno imali.

We do a lot of drug work or vaccine work

Radimo puno s lijekovima ili cjepivima

that you know you're going to have different failures.

za koja znate da će ponekad biti neuspješna.

Like, we put out, one that got a lot of publicity

Pa, tu je jedna s puno publiciteta,

was asking for a better condom.

tražili smo bolji kondom.

Well, we got hundreds of ideas.

Dobili smo stotine ideja.

Maybe a few of those will work out.

Možda će neke od njih raditi.

We were very naïve, certainly I was, about a drug

Bili smo vrlo naivni, barem ja, oko lijeka

for a disease in India, visceral leishmaniasis,

za bolest u Indiji, visceral leishmaniasis,

that I thought, once I got this drug,

za koju sam mislio, kada budem imao lijek,

we can just go wipe out the disease.

možemo otići i izbrisati bolest.

Well, turns out it took an injection

Pa, trebala je injekcija

every day for 10 days.

svakog dana, 10 dana.

It took three more years to get it than we expected,

Trebalo je još tri godine više od očekivanja da dođemo do toga,

and then there was no way

i onda nije bilo načina

it was going to get out there.

da to dođe tamo.

Fortunately, we found out

Srećom, shvatili smo

that if you go kill the sand flies,

da ako ubijete pješčane muhe,

you probably can have success there,

možete biti uspješni tamo,

but we spent five years,

ali proveli smo pet godina,

you could say wasted five years,

potratili pet godina,

and about 60 million,

i oko 60 milijuna,

on a path that turned out to have

na tragu nečega što

very modest benefit when we got there.

nije bilo baš od velike koristi kad smo stigli.

CA: You're spending, like, a billion dollars a year

CA: Trošite oko milijarde na godinu

in education, I think, something like that.

u obrazovanje, tako nešto.

Is anything, the story of what's gone right there

Ako išta, priča o tome što se tu dogodilo

is quite a long and complex one.

je duga i složena.

Are there any failures that you can talk about?

Postoje li neki neuspjesi o kojima možete pričati?

MG: Well, I would say a huge lesson for us

MG: Pa, rekao bih da je velika lekcija za nas

out of the early work is we thought

nastala iz ranog rada, da smo mislili

that these small schools were the answer,

da su ove male škole odgovor,

and small schools definitely help.

i one definitivno pomažu.

They bring down the dropout rate.

One smanjuju stopu ispisivanja.

They have less violence and crime in those schools.

Imamo manje nasilja i zločina u tim školama.

But the thing that we learned from that work,

Ali ono što smo naučili od tog rada,

and what turned out to be the fundamental key,

i što je postao osnovni ključ,

is a great teacher in front of the classroom.

a to je odličan profesor u učionici.

If you don't have an effective teacher

Ako nemate učinkovitog profesora

in the front of the classroom,

u učionici,

I don't care how big or small the building is,

bez obzira koliko je velika ili mala zgrada

you're not going to change the trajectory

nećete promijeniti ishod

of whether that student will be ready for college.

toga hoće li taj učenik biti spreman za fakultet.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

CA: So Melinda, this is you and

CA: Dakle, Melinda, ovo si ti

your eldest daughter, Jenn.

i najstarija kćer, Jenn.

And just taken about three weeks ago, I think,

A ovo je slikano prije tri, mislim,

three or four weeks ago. Where was this?

tri ili četiri tjedna. Gdje je to bilo?

MG: So we went to Tanzania.

MG: Otišli smo u Tanzaniju.

Jenn's been to Tanzania.

Jenn je bila u Tanzaniji.

All our kids have been to Africa quite a bit, actually.

Sva naša su djeca bila u Africi često, zapravo.

And we did something very different,

I napravili smo nešto vrlo drugačije,

which is, we decided to go spend

a to je, odlučili smo provesti

two nights and three days with a family.

dvije noći i tri dana s obitelji.

Anna and Sanare are the parents.

Anna i Sanare su roditelji.

They invited us to come and stay in their boma.

Pozvali su nas da budemo u njihovoj bomi.

Actually, the goats had been there, I think,

Zapravo, koze su bile ondje, ja mislim,

living in that particular little hut

živjele u toj maloj kolibi

on their little compound before we got there.

na svom malom prostoru prije nego smo došli.

And we stayed with their family,

I ostali smo s njihovom obitelji,

and we really, really learned

i mi smo stvarno, stvarno naučili

what life is like in rural Tanzania.

kakav je život u ruralnoj TAnzaniji.

And the difference between just going

I razliku između odlaska

and visiting for half a day

i posjeta na pola dana

or three quarters of a day

ili tri četvrt dana

versus staying overnight was profound,

nasuprot spavanju bilo je duboko,

and so let me just give you one explanation of that.

i dopustite da vam dam jedno objašnjenje.

They had six children, and as I talked to Anna

Imali su šestoro djece i dok sam pričala s Annom

in the kitchen, we cooked for about five hours

u kuhinji, kuhale smo pet sati

in the cooking hut that day,

u kolibi za kuhanje toga dana,

and as I talked to her, she had absolutely planned

i kako sam pričala s njom, ona je apsolutno planirala

and spaced with her husband

i razdvojila sa svojim suprugom

the births of their children.

rođenja svoje djece.

It was a very loving relationship.

To je bila duga veza puna ljubavi.

This was a Maasai warrior and his wife,

Ovo su Massai ratnik i njegova supruga,

but they had decided to get married,

ali oni su se odlučili vjenčati,

they clearly had respect and love in the relationship.

imali su poštovanje i ljubav u vezi.

Their children, their six children,

Njihova djeca, njihovo šestoro djece,

the two in the middle were twins, 13,

dvoje srednjih bili su blizanci, 13,

a boy, and a girl named Grace.

dječak i djevojčica imena Grace.

And when we'd go out to chop wood

I kada bismo izašli van sjeći drva

and do all the things that Grace and her mother would do,

i raditi sve stvari koje su Grace i njena majka činili,

Grace was not a child, she was an adolescent,

Grace nije bila dijete, bila je adolescent,

but she wasn't an adult.

ali nije odrasla.

She was very, very shy.

Bila je vrlo, vrlo, sramežljiva.

So she kept wanting to talk to me and Jenn.

Tako da je htjela pričati sa mnom i Jenn.

We kept trying to engage her, but she was shy.

Pokušali smo započeti razgovor s njom, ali je sramežljiva.

And at night, though,

Ali noću, ipak,

when all the lights went out in rural Tanzania,

kada su se sva svjetla u ruralnoj Tanzaniji isključila,

and there was no moon that night,

i nije bilo mjeseca te noći,

the first night, and no stars,

prve noći, ni zvijezda,

and Jenn came out of our hut

i Jenn je izašla iz naše kolibe

with her REI little headlamp on,

sa svojom lampom na glavi,

Grace went immediately,

Grace je odmah otišla

and got the translator,

po prevoditelja,

came straight up to my Jenn and said,

došla do Jenn i rekla,

"When you go home,

"Kada budeš išla kući,

can I have your headlamp

mogu li dobiti tvoju lampu

so I can study at night?"

tako da mogu učiti po noći?"

CA: Oh, wow.

CA: O, wow.

MG: And her dad had told me

MG: A njen tata mi je rekao

how afraid he was that unlike the son,

da se boji da nije poput sina,

who had passed his secondary exams,

koji je prošao svoje ispite,

because of her chores,

ona zbog obveza

she'd not done so well

neće biti tako uspješna

and wasn't in the government school yet.

i još nije došla u državnu školu.

He said, "I don't know how I'm going to pay for her education.

Rekao je, "Ne znam kako ću platiti njeno obrazovanje.

I can't pay for private school,

Ne mogu platiti privatnu školu,

and she may end up on this farm like my wife."

i možda završi na farmi poput moje žene."

So they know the difference

Tako da znaju kakvu razliku

that an education can make

može napraviti obrazovanje,

in a huge, profound way.

na jedan velik, dubok način.

CA: I mean, this is another pic

CA: Mislim, ovo je još jedna slika

of your other two kids, Rory and Phoebe,

vaše druge dvoje djece, Rory i Phoebe

along with Paul Farmer.

zajedno sa Paulom Farmerom.

Bringing up three children

Odgajati troje djece

when you're the world's richest family

kada ste najbogatija obitelj na svijetu

seems like a social experiment

čini se kao društveni eksperiment

without much prior art.

bez ikakvih osnova.

How have you managed it?

Kako ste to napravili?

What's been your approach?

Koji je bio vaš pristup?

BG: Well, I'd say overall

BG: Rekao bih, ukupno gledano

the kids get a great education,

djeca dobiju odlično obrazovanje,

but you've got to make sure

ali morate biti sigurni

they have a sense of their own ability

da imaju svijest o svojim mogućnostima

and what they're going to go and do,

i što će činiti,

and our philosophy has been

i naša filozofija je bila

to be very clear with them --

biti vrlo jasni s njima --

most of the money's going to the foundation --

većina novca ide u fondaciju --

and help them find something they're excited about.

i pomoći im naći nešto oko čega će biti uzbuđeni.

We want to strike a balance where they have

Moramo uravnotežiti to što imaju

the freedom to do anything

slobodu činiti što žele

but not a lot of money showered on them

ali neće dobiti puno novca

so they could go out and do nothing.

da mogu otići ne raditi ništa.

And so far, they're fairly diligent,

I za sada, poprilično su revni,

excited to pick their own direction.

uzbuđeni da nađu svoj smjer.

CA: You've obviously guarded their privacy carefully for obvious reasons.

CA: Čuvali ste njihovu privatnost iz očitih razloga.

I'm curious why you've given me permission

Zanima me zašto ste mi dali dozvolu

to show this picture now here at TED.

da pokažem ovu sliku ovdje na TED-u.

MG: Well, it's interesting.

MG: Pa, interesantno je.

As they get older, they so know

Kako su stariji, shvaćaju

that our family belief is about responsibility,

da je uvjerenje naše obitelji temeljeno na odgovornosti,

that we are in an unbelievable situation

da se nalazimo u nevjerojatnoj situaciji

just to live in the United States

samo zato što živimo u Americi

and have a great education,

i imamo odlično obrazovanje,

and we have a responsibility to give back to the world.

i da imamo odgovornost pomoći svijetu.

And so as they get older

I tako, kako bivaju stariji

and we are teaching them --

i učimo i --

they have been to so many countries around the world —

bili su u tako puno zemalja u svijetu --

they're saying,

oni kažu,

we do want people to know that we believe

mi želimo da ljudi znaju da vjerujemo

in what you're doing, Mom and Dad,

u ono što radite, mama i tata,

and it is okay to show us more.

i u redu je da nas više pokažete.

So we have their permission to show this picture,

Tako da imamo njihovu dozvolu da pokažemo ovu sliku,

and I think Paul Farmer is probably going to put it

i mislim da će Paul Farmer

eventually in some of his work.

ju staviti u neki svoj rad.

But they really care deeply

Ali strašno im je stalo

about the mission of the foundation, too.

do misije fondacije isto.

CA: You've easily got enough money

CA: Imate dovoljno novca,

despite your vast contributions to the foundation

unatoč vašim izdašnim doprinosima fondaciji

to make them all billionaires.

da svi postanu milijarderi.

Is that your plan for them?

Je li to vaš plan za njih?

BG: Nope. No. They won't have anything like that.

BG: Ne. Neće dobiti ništa takvo.

They need to have a sense

Moraju osjećati

that their own work is meaningful and important.

da je njihov rad važan i značajan.

We read an article long, actually, before we got married,

Pročitali smo članak davno prije nego smo stupili u brak,

where Warren Buffett talked about that,

gdje je Warren Buffet pričao o tome,

and we're quite convinced that it wasn't a favor

i uvjereni smo da to nije usluga

either to society or to the kids.

ni društvu ni djeci.

CA: Well, speaking of Warren Buffett,

CA: Pa, kad pričamo o Warrenu Buffettu,

something really amazing happened in 2006,

nešto nevjerojatno dogodilo se 2006.,

when somehow your only real rival

kada je nekako vaš jedini rival

for richest person in America

za najbogatiju osobu u Americi

suddenly turned around and agreed to give

stao i odlučio pokloniti

80 percent of his fortune

80% svog bogatstva

to your foundation.

vašoj fondaciji.

How on Earth did that happen?

Kako se to dogodilo?

I guess there's a long version and a short version of that.

Pa, postoji duga verzija i kratka verzija te priče.

We've got time for the short version.

Imamo vremena za kratku verziju.

BG: All right. Well, Warren was a close friend,

BG: Okej. Pa, Warren je blizak prijatelj

and he was going to have his wife Suzie

i on je htio da njegova žena Suzie

give it all away.

sve podijeli.

Tragically, she passed away before he did,

Na žalost, ona je umrla prije nego on

and he's big on delegation, and

a on voli delegirati, i

— (Laughter) —

-- (Smijeh) --

he said —

rekao je --

CA: Tweet that.

BG: If he's got somebody who is doing something well,

CA: Tweetajte ovo.

BG: Ako ima nekoga tko nešto radi dobro,

and is willing to do it at no charge,

i voljan je to raditi bez troška,

maybe that's okay. But we were stunned.

možda je to u redu. Ali mi smo bili šokirani.

MG: Totally stunned. BG: We had never expected it,

MG: Totalno šokirani. BG: Nismo to nikad očekivali,

and it has been unbelievable.

i to je zapravo nevjerojatno.

It's allowed us to increase our ambition

Dozvoljava nam da povećamo ambiciju

in what the foundation can do quite dramatically.

oko toga što fondacija može učiniti dramatično.

Half the resources we have

Pola resursa koje imamo

come from Warren's mind-blowing generosity.

došlo je od Warrenove nevjerojatne velikodušnosti.

CA: And I think you've pledged that

CA: I ja mislim da si se obvvezao

by the time you're done,

da dok završiš

more than, or 95 percent of your wealth,

viiše od 95 posto svog bogatstva

will be given to the foundation.

dat ćeš fondaciji.

BG: Yes.

BG: Da.

CA: And since this relationship, it's amazing—

CA: I kako je ovaj odnos zapanjujuć --

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

And recently, you and Warren

I nedavno, ti i Warren

have been going around trying to persuade

išli ste uokolo i uvjeravali

other billionaires and successful people

druge milijardere i uspješne ljude

to pledge to give, what,

da se obvežu dati, koliko,

more than half of their assets for philanthropy.

više od pola svoje imovine za filantropiju.

How is that going?

Kako to ide?

BG: Well, we've got about 120 people

BG: Pa, imamo oko 120 ljudi

who have now taken this giving pledge.

koji su se obvezali na davanje.

The thing that's great is that we get together

Stvar koja je odlična je da se okupimo

yearly and talk about, okay,

jednom godišnje i pričamo,

do you hire staff, what do you give to them?

ok, hoćemo li zaposliti nekog, što im dati?

We're not trying to homogenize it.

Nećemo to homogenizirati.

I mean, the beauty of philanthropy

Ljepota filantropije je

is this mind-blowing diversity.

u njenoj raznolikosti.

People give to some things.

Ljudi daju za neke stvari.

We look and go, "Wow."

Pogledamo i kažemo "Wow."

But that's great.

Ali to je odlično.

That's the role of philanthropy

To je uloga filantropije

is to pick different approaches,

da bira različite pristupe,

including even in one space, like education.

čak i one u jednom prostoru, kao edukaciju.

We need more experimentation.

Moramo više eksperimentirati.

But it's been wonderful, meeting those people,

Ali bilo je prekrasno, upoznati te ljude,

sharing their journey to philanthropy,

dijeliti to putovanje filantropijom,

how they involve their kids,

kako uključuju svoju djecu,

where they're doing it differently,

što rade drugačije,

and it's been way more successful than we expected.

i bilo je uspješnije nego smo očekivali.

Now it looks like it'll just keep growing in size

Sada izgleda kao da će samo rasti u veličini

in the years ahead.

u godinama koje slijede.

MG: And having people see that other people

MG: I učiniti da ljudi vide druge ljude

are making change with philanthropy,

kako mijenjaju svijet filantropijom.

I mean, these are people who have

Mislim, ovo su ljudi koji su

created their own businesses,

stvorili vlastite tvrtke,

put their own ingenuity behind incredible ideas.

stavljaju svoju ingenioznost iza odličnih ideja.

If they put their ideas and their brain

Ako stave svoje ideje i mozak

behind philanthropy, they can change the world.

iza filantropije, mogu mijenjati svijet.

And they start to see others doing it, and saying,

I počinju vidjeti druge kako to čine, i govore

"Wow, I want to do that with my own money."

"Wow, želim to učiniti s vlastitim novcem."

To me, that's the piece that's incredible.

Za mene to je dio koji je nevjerojatan.

CA: It seems to me, it's actually really hard

CA: Čini mi se da je teško

for some people to figure out

nekim ljudima shvatiti

even how to remotely spend that much money

kako uopće trošiti toliko novca

on something else.

na išta drugo.

There are probably some billionaires in the room

Postoje neki milijarderi u ovoj sobi

and certainly some successful people.

i neki vrlo uspješni ljudi.

I'm curious, can you make the pitch?

Znatiželjan sam, možete li dati prijedlog?

What's the pitch?

Koji je prijedlog?

BG: Well, it's the most fulfilling thing

BG: Pa, to je stvar koja nas je najviše ispunila

we've ever done,

a koju smo ikad učinili,

and you can't take it with you,

i to ne možete uzeti sa sobom,

and if it's not good for your kids,

i ako nije dobro za vašu djecu,

let's get together and brainstorm

skupimo se i razmislimo

about what we can be done.

o tome što možemo učiniti.

The world is a far better place

Svijet je puno bolje mjesto

because of the philanthropists of the past,

zbog filantropa iz prošlosti,

and the U.S. tradition here, which is the strongest,

i američke tradicije, koja je najsnažnija,

is the envy of the world.

na njoj joj zavidi svijet.

And part of the reason I'm so optimistic

I dio razloga zašto sam tako optimističan je

is because I do think philanthropy

jer vjerujem da će filantropija

is going to grow

samo rasti

and take some of these things

i uzeti neke od ovih stvari

government's not just good at working on and discovering

koje vlada ne radi dobro i otkriti

and shine some light in the right direction.

i pokazati pravi put.

CA: The world's got this terrible inequality,

CA: Svijet ima ovu nevjerojatnu nejednakost,

growing inequality problem

rastući problem nejednakosti,

that seems structural.

koji neki vide kao strukturalni.

It does seem to me that if more of your peers

Čini mi se da ako više tvojih prijatelja

took the approach that you two have made,

uzme pristup koji imate vas dvoje

it would make a dent

to bi promijenilo stanje

both in that problem and certainly

u tom problemu i sigurno u

in the perception of that problem.

percepciji tog problema.

Is that a fair comment?

Je li to dobar komentar?

BG: Oh yeah. If you take from the most wealthy

BG: O da. Ako uzmete od najbogatijih

and give to the least wealthy, it's good.

i date najsiormašnijim, to je dobro.

It tries to balance out, and that's just.

Pokušava se izjednačiti i to je pravedno.

MG: But you change systems.

MG: Ali mjenjate sustav.

In the U.S., we're trying to change the education system

U Americi pokušavamo promijeniti obrazovni sustav

so it's just for everybody

da je za sve

and it works for all students.

i da radi za sve studente.

That, to me, really changes

To, za mene, stvarno mijenja

the inequality balance.

nejednakost.

BG: That's the most important.

BG: To je najvažnije.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

CA: Well, I really think that most people here

CA: Pa mislim da je većina ljudi

and many millions around the world

a i mnogi milijuni širom svijeta

are just in awe of the trajectory

zavidna na putanju

your lives have taken

kojom su vaši životi krenuli

and the spectacular degree to which

i spektakularnu raziinu do koje

you have shaped the future.

ste oblikovali budućnost.

Thank you so much for coming to TED

Hvala vam što ste došli na TED

and for sharing with us and for all you do.

i što ste podijelili s nama ono što radite.

BG: Thank you. MG: Thank you.

BG: Hvala. MG: Hvala.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

BG: Thank you. MG: Thank you very much.

BG: Hvala. MG: Hvala vam puno.

BG: All right, good job. (Applause)

BG: U redu, dobar posao. (Pljesak)