Are we sexual omnivores? | Christopher Ryan

Prevodilac: Miloš Milosavljević Lektor: Mile Živković

I'm going to go off script

Odstupiću od scenarija

and make Chris quite nervous here

i učiniću Krisa prilično nervoznim

by making this audience participation.

time što ću pozvati publiku da učestvuje.

All right. Are you with me? Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Je l' hoćete? Da. U redu.

So what I'd like to do is have you raise your hand

Onda, hteo bih da podignete ruku

if you've ever heard a heterosexual couple having sex.

ako ste ikada čuli heteroseksualni par prilikom seksa.

Could be the neighbors, hotel room,

To mogu da budu komšije, hotelska soba,

your parents. Sorry.

vaši roditelji. Izvinite.

Okay. Pretty much everybody.

Okej. Uglavnom svi.

Now raise your hand if the man was making

Sada podignite ruku ako je muškarac

more noise than the woman.

bio glasniji od žene.

I see one guy there.

Vidim jednog čoveka tamo.

It doesn't count if it was you, sir.

Ne računa se ako ste to bili vi, gospodine.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

So his hand's down. And one woman. Okay.

Spustio je ruku. I jedna žena. Okej.

Sitting next to a loud guy.

Koja sedi pored glasnog muškarca.

Now what does this tell us?

Šta nam ovo govori?

It tells us that human beings

Govori nam da su ljudska bića

make noise when they have sex,

glasna kada imaju seksualni odnos

and it's generally the woman who makes more noise.

i uglavnom je žena glasnija.

This is known as female copulatory vocalization

Ovo je poznato kao ženska kopulatorna

to the clipboard crowd.

vokalizacija.

I wasn't even going to mention this,

Čak nisam hteo ni da pomenem ovo,

but somebody told me that Meg Ryan might be here,

ali rekli su mi da je Meg Rajan možda ovde,

and she is the world's most famous

a ona je najpoznatiji

female copulatory vocalizer.

ženski kopulativni vokalizator na svetu.

So I thought, got to talk about that.

Pa sam pomislio da moram da govorim o tome.

We'll get back to that a little bit later.

Vratićemo se na to malo kasnije.

Let me start by saying human beings

Dozvolite mi da počnem time što ću reći da ljudska bića

are not descended from apes,

nisu postala od majmuna,

despite what you may have heard. We are apes.

uprkos onome što ste čuli. Mi jesmo majmuni.

We are more closely related to the chimp and the bonobo

Bliže smo povezani sa šimpanzom i bonobo šimpanzom

than the African elephant is to the Indian elephant,

nego afrički slon sa indijskim slonom,

as Jared Diamond pointed out in one of his early books.

kao što je Džered Dajmond istakao u jednoj od svojih prvih knjiga.

We're more closely related to chimps and bonobos

Bliže smo povezani sa šimpanzama i bonobo šimpanzama

than chimps and bonobos are related

nego što su šimpanze i bonoboi povezani

to any other primate --

sa bilo kojim drugim primatom -

gorillas, orangutans, what have you.

gorilom, orangutanom ili bilo kojim drugim.

So we're extremely closely related to them,

Izuzetno blisko smo povezani sa njima

and as you'll see in terms of our behavior,

i kao što ćete videti, u smislu ponašanja

we've got some relationship as well.

imamo takođe neki odnos.

So what I'm asking today, the question

Pitanje koje postavljam danas,

I want to explore with you today is,

koje želim da istražim zajedno sa vama je:

what kind of ape are we in terms of our sexuality?

koja smo mi vrsta majmuna što se tiče seksualnosti?

Now, since Darwin's day there's been

Od Darvinovih dana, postoji

what Cacilda and I have called

ono što Kasilda i ja zovemo

the standard narrative of human sexual evolution,

standardna priča o ljudskoj seksualnoj evoluciji

and you're all familiar with it,

i ona vam je svima poznata,

even if you haven't read this stuff.

čak i ako niste čitali ovo.

The idea is that, as part of human nature,

Ideja je da su, kao deo ljudske prirode,

from the beginning of our species' time,

od početka naše vrste,

men have sort of leased women's reproductive potential

muškarci iznajmljivali reproduktivni potencijal žena

by providing them with certain goods and services.

tako što su ih snabdevali određenom robom i uslugama.

Generally we're talking about meat, shelter, status,

Uopšteno mislimo na meso, sklonište, status,

protection, things like that.

zaštitu, takve stvari.

And in exchange, women have offered fidelity,

A u zamenu, žene su često nudile vernost

or at least a promise of fidelity.

ili barem obećanje vernosti.

Now this sets men and women up in an oppositional relationship.

Ovo stavlja muškarce i žene u suprotstavljen odnos.

The war between the sexes is built right into our DNA, according to this vision. Right?

Prema ovom viđenju, rat između polova je ugrađen u naš DNK.

What Cacilda and I have argued is that no,

Ono što smo Kasilda i ja razmatrali je to

this economic relationship,

da li je ovaj ekonomski odnos,

this oppositional relationship,

ovaj suprotstavljen odnos,

is actually an artifact of agriculture,

u stvari proizvod poljoprivrede

which only arose about 10,000 years ago at the earliest.

koja je nastala najranije pre 10.000 godina.

Anatomically modern human beings

Anatomski moderna ljudska bića

have been around for about 200,000 years,

postoje od pre, otprilike, 200.000 godina,

so we're talking about five percent, at most,

tako da se radi o najviše 5%

of our time as a modern, distinct species.

vremena u kojem postojimo kao moderna, posebna vrsta.

So before agriculture,

Pre poljoprivrede,

before the agricultural revolution,

pre poljoprivredne revolucije,

it's important to understand that human beings

važno je shvatiti da su ljudska bića

lived in hunter-gatherer groups that are

živela u grupama lovaca sakupljača

characterized wherever they're found in the world

koje antropolozi, gde god da su se nalazile u svetu,

by what anthropologists called fierce egalitarianism.

karakterišu kao žestoki egalitarizam.

They not only share things,

Oni ne samo da dele stvari,

they demand that things be shared:

već zahtevaju da se one dele.

meat, shelter, protection, all these things

Meso, sklonište, zaštita, sve ove stvari

that were supposedly being traded to women

koje bi trebalo davati u zamenu ženama

for their sexual fidelity, it turns out,

za njihovu seksualnu vernost,

are shared widely among these societies.

po svemu sudeći su se široko delile u ovim društvima.

Now I'm not saying that our ancestors

Ne kažem da su naši preci

were noble savages, and I'm not saying

bili plemeniti divljaci i ne kažem ni

modern day hunter-gatherers are noble savages either.

da su to moderni lovci sakupljači.

What I'm saying is that this is simply

Ono što kažem je da je ovo jednostavno

the best way to mitigate risk

najbolji način da se umanji rizik

in a foraging context.

u kontekstu lova.

And there's really no argument about this among anthropologists.

Među antropolozima oko ovoga nema spora.

All Cacilda and I have done is extend this sharing behavior to sexuality.

Kasilda i ja smo samo proširili ovu sklonost ka deljenju na seksualnost.

So we've argued that human sexuality

Rekli smo da je ljudska seksualnost,

has essentially evolved, until agriculture,

do pojave poljoprivrede, u osnovi evoluirala

as a way of establishing and maintaining

kao način za uspostavljanje i održavanje

the complex, flexible social systems, networks,

složenih, fleksibilnih društvenih sistema, mreža,

that our ancestors were very good at,

u čemu su naši preci bili veoma dobri

and that's why our species has survived so well.

i zato je naša vrsta tako uspešno opstala.

Now, this makes some people uncomfortable,

Ovo je nekim ljudima neprijatno,

and so I always need to take a moment in these talks

tako da tako da uvek u ovim govorima

to say, listen,

kažem: čujte,

I'm saying our ancestors were promiscuous,

kažem da su naši preci bili promiskuitetni,

but I'm not saying they were having sex with strangers.

ali ne kažem da su imali seks sa nepoznatima.

There were no strangers. Right?

Nile bilo nepoznatih. Zar ne?

In a hunter-gatherer band, there are no strangers.

U lovačko-sakupljačkoj grupi nema stranaca.

You've known these people your entire life.

Poznajete te ljude čitav život.

So I'm saying, yes, there were overlapping sexual relationships,

I kažem: da, bilo je seksualnih veza koje su se preklapale,

that our ancestors probably had several different sexual relationships

naši preci su verovatno imali nekoliko različitih seksualnih veza

going on at any given moment in their adult lives.

u svakom momentu njihovih života kao odraslih.

But I'm not saying they were having sex with strangers.

Ali ne kažem da su imali seks sa nepoznatima.

I'm not saying that they didn't love the people they were having sex with.

Ne kažem da nisu voleli ljude sa kojima su imali seks.

And I'm not saying there was no pair-bonding going on.

I ne kažem da tu nije bilo vezivanja.

I'm just saying it wasn't sexually exclusive.

Samo kažem da nisu isključivali i druge seksualne odnose.

And those of us who have chosen to be monogamous --

A oni među nama koji su odabrali da budu monogamni -

my parents, for example, have been married

moji roditelji, na primer, u monogamnom su braku

for 52 years monogamously,

52 godine,

and if it wasn't monogamously, Mom and Dad,

a ako nije bio monogaman: mama i tata,

I don't want to hear about it—

neću da znam za to -

I'm not criticizing this and I'm not saying

ne kritikujem i ne kažem

there's anything wrong with this.

da ima nešto loše u tome.

What I'm saying is that to argue

Ono što hoću da kažem je da mišljenje

that our ancestors were sexual omnivores

da su naši preci bili seksualni svaštojedi

is no more a criticism of monogamy

nije ništa više kritika monogamije, nego što je

than to argue that our ancestors were dietary omnivores

mišljenje da su naši preci bili svaštojedi u smislu ishrane

is a criticism of vegetarianism.

kritika vegetarijanizma.

You can choose to be a vegetarian,

Možete izabrati da budete vegetarijanac,

but don't think that just because you've made that decision,

ali mislim da zbog te odluke

bacon suddenly stops smelling good.

slanina ne prestane odjednom da vam miriše dobro.

Okay? So this is my point.

Okej? To je moja poenta.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

That one took a minute to sink in, huh?

Trebalo je malo vremena da se ovo shvati, zar ne?

Now, in addition to being a great genius,

Pored toga što je bio veliki genije,

a wonderful man, a wonderful husband,

divan čovek, divan muž,

a wonderful father, Charles Darwin

divan otac, Čarls Darvin je

was also a world-class Victorian prude.

takođe bio prvoklasni viktorijanski puritanac.

All right? He was perplexed

Bio je zbunjen

by the sexual swellings of certain primates,

seksualnim naduvavanjem određenih primata,

including chimps and bonobos,

uklučujući šimpanze i bonobo šimpanze,

because these sexual swellings tend to provoke

jer ova seksualna naduvavanja teže da isprovociraju

many males to mate with the females.

mnoge mužjake da se pare sa ženkama.

So he couldn't understand why on Earth would the female have developed this thing

On nije mogao da shvati zašto su, za ime sveta, ženke razvile ovo,

if all they were supposed to be doing is forming their pair bond, right?

ako bi samo trebalo da nađu svoj par.

Chimps and bonobos, Darwin didn't really know this,

Darvin nije znao

but chimps and bonobos mate

da se šimpanze i bonobo šimpanze pare

one to four times per hour

jednom do četiri puta na sat

with up to a dozen males per day

sa do 12 mužjaka na dan

when they have their sexual swellings.

kada imaju seksualno naduvavanje.

Interestingly, chimps have sexual swellings

Interesantno je da šimpanze imaju seksualno naduvavanje

through 40 percent, roughly,

tokom, otprilike, 40 posto

of their menstrual cycle,

svog menstrualnog ciklusa,

bonobos 90 percent,

bonobo šimpanze - 90 posto,

and humans are among the only species on the planet

a ljudi su skoro jedina vrsta na planeti

where the female is available for sex

gde su ženke spremne za seks

throughout the menstrual cycle,

tokom celog menstrualnog ciklusa,

whether she's menstruating, whether she's post-menopausal,

bilo da imaju menstruaciju, bilo da su u menopauzi,

whether she's already pregnant.

bilo da su već trudne.

This is vanishingly rare among mammals.

Ovo je izuzetno retko među sisarima.

So it's a very interesting aspect of human sexuality.

To je vrlo zanimljiv aspekt ljudske seksualnosti.

Now, Darwin ignored the reflections

Darvin je ignorisao uticaje

of the sexual swelling in his own day,

seksualnog naduvavanja, u svoje vreme,

as scientists tend to do sometimes.

kao što naučnici ponekad znaju da urade.

So what we're talking about is sperm competition.

Ovde se radi o nadmetanju spermatozoida.

Now the average human ejaculate has about 300 million sperm cells,

Prosečni ljudski ejakulat ima oko 300 miliona spermatozoida,

so it's already a competitive environment.

tako da je to već kompetitivno okruženje.

The question is whether these sperm are competing against other men's sperm

Pitanje je da li se oni takmiče protiv spermatozoida drugog muškarca

or just their own.

ili samo između sebe.

There's a lot to talk about in this chart.

Ima mnogo da se kaže u vezi sa ovim dijagramom.

The one thing I'll call your attention to right away

Jedna stvar na koju ću vam odmah skrenuti pažnju je

is the little musical note above the female chimp and bonobo and human.

mala muzička nota iznad ženke šimpanze, bonoboa i čoveka.

That indicates female copulatory vocalization.

To označava žensku kopulatornu vokalizaciju.

Just look at the numbers.

Samo pogledajte brojeve.

The average human has sex

Prosečan čovek ima seks

about 1,000 times per birth.

oko 1000 puta po jednom rođenju.

If that number seems high for some of you,

Ako taj broj izgleda visok nekome od vas,

I assure you it seems low for others in the room.

uveravam vas da nekima u sali izgleda nizak.

We share that ratio with chimps and bonobos.

Kod šimpanzi i bonoboa ovaj odnos je isti kao kod nas.

We don't share it with the other three apes,

Kod druge tri vrste, nije.

the gorilla, the orangutan and the gibbon,

Gorile, orangutani i giboni,

who are more typical of mammals,

koji su tipičniji sisari,

having sex only about a dozen times per birth.

imaju seks samo oko 12 puta po jednom rođenju.

Humans and bonobos are the only animals that have sex face-to-face

Ljudi i bonoboi su jedine životinje koje se gledaju dok imaju seks

when both of them are alive.

kad su oboje živi.

(Laughter)

(Smeh)

And you'll see that the human, chimp and bonobo

I primetićete da ljudi, šimpanze i bonoboi

all have external testicles, which in our book

imaju eksterne testise koje mi izjednačavamo

we equate to a special fridge you have in the garage

sa posebnim frižiderom koji imamo u garaži

just for beer.

samo za pivo.

If you're the kind of guy who has a beer fridge

Ako ste osoba koja ima frižider za pivo u garaži,

in the garage, you expect a party to happen

onda očekujete žurku

at any moment, and you need to be ready.

u svakom momentu i morate da budete spremni.

That's what the external testicles are.

To su eksterni testisi.

They keep the sperm cells cool

Oni hlade spermatozoide

so you can have frequent ejaculations.

da biste imali česte ejakulacije.

I'm sorry. It's true.

Žao mi je, ali to je tačno.

The human, some of you will be happy to hear,

Čovek, neki od vas će biti srećni da to čuju,

has the largest, thickest penis of any primate.

ima najveći i najdeblji penis od svih primata.

Now, this evidence goes way beyond anatomy.

Ova činjenica izlazi iz okvira anatomije.

It goes into anthropology as well.

Ona ulazi i u antropologiju.

Historical records are full of accounts of people

Istorijski podaci su puni svedočenja ljudi

around the world who have sexual practices

širom sveta, koji upražnjavaju seks

that should be impossible

koji bi trebalo da bude nemoguć

given what we have assumed about human sexual evolution.

s obzirom na pretpostavke o ljudskoj seksualnoj evoluciji.

These women are the Mosuo from southwestern China.

Ove žene su iz naroda Mosuo sa jugozapada Kine.

In their society, everyone, men and women,

U njihovom društvu su svi, i muškarci i žene,

are completely sexually autonomous.

potpuno seksualno autonomni.

There's no shame associated with sexual behavior.

Nema stida u vezi sa seksualnim ponašanjem.

Women have hundreds of partners.

Žene imaju na stotine partnera.

It doesn't matter. Nobody cares. Nobody gossips. It's not an issue.

Nije važno. Nikog nije briga. Niko ne tračari. To nije tema.

When the woman becomes pregnant,

Kad žena zatrudni,

the child is cared for by her, her sisters, and her brothers.

dete čuvaju ona, njene sestre i njena braća.

The biological father is a nonissue.

Biološki otac je bez značaja.

On the other side of the planet, in the Amazon,

S druge strane planete, u Amazoniji,

we've got many tribes which practice

imamo mnoga plemena koja praktikuju

what anthropologists call partible paternity.

ono što antropolozi nazivaju podeljeno očinstvo.

These people actually believe --

Ovi ljudi veruju -

and they have no contact among them,

a među njima nema kontakta,

no common language or anything,

ni zajedničkog jezika, niti bilo čega drugog,

so it's not an idea that spread,

tako da nije ideja koja je proširena,

it's an idea that's arisen around the world --

već ideja koja se pojavila širom sveta -

they believe that a fetus is literally made

oni veruju da je fetus bukvalno sastavljen

of accumulated semen.

od skupa sperme.

So a woman who wants to have a child

I tako žena koja hoće da ima dete

who's smart and funny and strong

koje je pametno, duhovito i snažno

makes sure she has lots of sex with the smart guy,

ima mnogo seksa sa pametnim muškarcem,

the funny guy and the strong guy,

duhovitim muškarcem i snažnim muškarcem

to get the essence of each of these men into the baby,

da bi beba imala osobine svakoga od njih

and then when the child is born,

i kada se dete rodi,

these different men will come forward

ovi različiti ljudi se jave

and acknowledge their paternity of the child.

i priznaju očinstvo nad detetom.

So paternity is actually sort of a team endeavor

Tako da je očinstvo timski poduhvat

in this society.

u ovom društvu.

So there are all sorts of examples like this

Ima raznih primera kao što je ovaj

that we go through in the book.

koje pominjemo u knjizi.

Now, why does this matter?

Zašto je ovo važno?

Edward Wilson says we need to understand

Edvard Vilson kaže da treba da razumemo

that human sexuality is first a bonding device

da je ljudska seksualnost na prvom mestu sredstvo za stvaranje veze,

and only secondarily procreation.

a tek na drugom sredstvo za razmnožavanje.

I think that's true. This matters because

Mislim da je to tačno. Ovo je važno jer je

our evolved sexuality is in direct conflict

naša evoluirana seksualnost u direktnom konfliktu

with many aspects of the modern world.

sa mnogim aspektima modernog sveta.

The contradictions between what we're told

Kontradikcije između onoga što su nam rekli

we should feel and what we actually do feel

da bi trebalo da osećamo i onoga što stvarno osećamo

generates a huge amount of unnecessary suffering.

stvaraju veliku količinu nepotrebne patnje.

My hope is that a more accurate,

Ja se nadam da će nas tačnije,

updated understanding of human sexuality

novije razumevanje ljudske seksualnosti

will lead us to have greater tolerance for ourselves,

dovesti do veće tolerancije prema sebi,

for each other,

jednih prema drugima,

greater respect for unconventional relationship configurations

do većeg poštovanja za nekonvencionalne forme odnosa

like same-sex marriage or polyamorous unions,

kao što su istopolni brakovi ili poliamorijalne zajednice

and that we'll finally put to rest the idea

i do toga da konačno napustimo ideju

that men have some innate, instinctive right

da muškarci imaju neko urođeno, instinktivno pravo

to monitor and control women's sexual behavior.

da nadgledaju i kontrolišu seksualno ponašanje žena.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

And we'll see that it's not only gay people

I videćemo da nisu samo gej ljudi

that have to come out of the closet.

oni koji treba da "izađu iz ormana".

We all have closets we have to come out of. Right?

Svi mi imamo ormane iz kojih treba da izađemo.

And when we do come out of those closets,

I kada izađemo iz tih ormana,

we'll recognize that our fight is not with each other,

prepoznaćemo da naša borba nije borba jednih s drugima,

our fight is with an outdated, Victorian sense of human sexuality

već sa zastarelim viktorijanskim pogledom na ljudsku seksualnost

that conflates desire with property rights,

koja spaja želju sa pravom na svojinu,

generates shame and confusion

proizvodi stid i konfuziju

in place of understanding and empathy.

umesto razumevanja i empatije.

It's time we moved beyond Mars and Venus,

Vreme je da se preselimo sa Marsa i Venere

because the truth is

jer istina je

that men are from Africa

da su muškarci iz Afrike

and women are from Africa.

i da su žene iz Afrike.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Aplauz)

Chris Anderson: Thank you. Christopher Ryan: Thank you.

Kris Anderson: Hvala. Kristofer Rajan: Hvala.

CA: So a question.

K. A.: Pitanje.

It's so perplexing, trying to use arguments

Zbunjujuće je, ako pokušamo da upotrebimo argumente

about evolutionary history

o istoriji evolucije

to turn that into what we ought to do today.

da bismo to pretvorili u ono što treba da radimo danas.

Someone could give a talk and say,

Neko bi mogao da održi govor i kaže:

look at us, we've got these really sharp teeth

pogledajte nas, imamo vrlo oštre zube

and muscles and a brain that's really good

i mišiće i mozak koji su stvarno dobri

at throwing weapons,

u bacanju oružja

and if you look at lots of societies around the world,

i ako pogledate mnoga društva širom sveta,

you'll see very high rates of violence.

videćete vrlo visoke stope nasilja.

Nonviolence is a choice like vegetarianism,

Nenasilje je izbor, kao i vegetarijanizam,

but it's not who you are.

ali to nije ono što ste vi.

How is that different

Kako je to drugačije

from the talk you gave?

od govora koji ste održali?

CR: Well first of all, the evidence

K. R.: Na prvom mestu, dokazi

for high levels of violence in prehistory

za visok stepen nasilja u praistoriji

is very debatable.

su vrlo diskutabilni.

But that's just an example.

Ali to je samo primer.

Certainly, you know, lots of people say to me,

Sigurno, mnogi ljudi mi kažu:

just because we lived a certain way in the past

samo zato što smo živeli na određen način u prošlosti,

doesn't mean we should live that way now, and I agree with that.

to ne znači da treba da živimo tako sada, i slažem se s tim.

Everyone has to respond to the modern world.

Svako treba da odgovori modernom svetu.

But the body does have its inherent

Ali telo ima svoje sopstvene

evolved trajectories.

evoluirane putanje.

And so you could live on McDonald's and milkshakes,

Mogli biste da živite na Mekdonaldsu i milkšejkovima,

but your body will rebel against that. We have appetites.

ali vaše telo će se pobuniti protiv toga. Imamo apetite.

I think it was Schopenhauer who said,

Mislim da je Šopenhauer rekao da:

a person can do what they want

osoba može da uradi ono što želi,

but not want what they want.

ali ne može da želi ono što želi.

And so what I'm arguing against

Tako da sam ja protiv

is the shame that's associated with desires.

stida koji je povezan sa željama.

It's the idea that if you love your husband or wife

To je ideja da ako volite svog muža ili ženu,

but you still are attracted to other people,

ali vas i dalje privlače drugi ljudi,

there's something wrong with you,

onda nešto nije u redu sa vama,

there's something wrong with your marriage,

nešto nije u redu u vašem braku,

something wrong with your partner.

sa vašim partnerom.

I think a lot of families are fractured

Mislim da su se mnoge porodice raspale

by unrealistic expectations

zbog nerealnih očekivanja koja su

that are based upon this false vision of human sexuality.

zasnovana na ovoj pogrešnoj viziji ljudske seksualnosti.

That's what I'm trying to get at.

Na to ciljam.

CA: Thank you. Communicated powerfully. Thanks a lot.

K. A.: Hvala vam, Govorili ste odlično. Hvala mnogo.

CR: Thank you, Chris. (Applause)

K. R.: Hvala Kris. (Aplauz)