Are we sexual omnivores? | Christopher Ryan

Prevoditelj: Davorin Jelačić Recezent: Ivan Stamenković

I'm going to go off script

Neću slijediti scenarij

and make Chris quite nervous here

pa će se Chris uznemiriti

by making this audience participation.

jer je dopustio sudjelovanje publike.

All right. Are you with me? Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Dobro. Pratite me? Da. Da. Dobro.

So what I'd like to do is have you raise your hand

Volio bih da podigne ruku svatko

if you've ever heard a heterosexual couple having sex.

tko je ikad čuo heteroseksualni par pri spolnom odnosu.

Could be the neighbors, hotel room,

Mogli ste čuti susjede, nekoga u hotelu,

your parents. Sorry.

svoje roditelje. Oprostite.

Okay. Pretty much everybody.

Dobro. Više-manje svi.

Now raise your hand if the man was making

Sad neka digne ruku onaj tko je čuo

more noise than the woman.

muškarca kako stvara više buke od žene.

I see one guy there.

Vidim samo jednu ruku.

It doesn't count if it was you, sir.

Ne vrijedi ako ste taj muškarac bili vi, gospodine.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

So his hand's down. And one woman. Okay.

Spustio je ruku. I jedna žena. Dobro.

Sitting next to a loud guy.

Koja sjedi kraj tog glasnog tipa.

Now what does this tell us?

Što nam to govori?

It tells us that human beings

Govori nam da ljudi

make noise when they have sex,

prave buku tijekom seksa,

and it's generally the woman who makes more noise.

i općenito je žena ta koja je glasnija.

This is known as female copulatory vocalization

To je poznato kao ženska snošajna vokalizacija

to the clipboard crowd.

među onima koji to bilježe.

I wasn't even going to mention this,

Nisam to htio ni spomenuti,

but somebody told me that Meg Ryan might be here,

ali mi je netko rekao da bi Meg Ryan mogla biti nazočna,

and she is the world's most famous

a ona je najslavnija

female copulatory vocalizer.

ženska snošajna vokalizatorica.

So I thought, got to talk about that.

Pa sam pomislio, moram o tome.

We'll get back to that a little bit later.

Nešto kasnije ćemo se vratiti na to.

Let me start by saying human beings

Počet ću s tvrdnjom da se ljudi

are not descended from apes,

nisu razvili od majmuna,

despite what you may have heard. We are apes.

usprkos onome što ste možda čuli. Mi jesmo majmuni.

We are more closely related to the chimp and the bonobo

U bližem smo srodstvu sa čimpanzom i bonobom

than the African elephant is to the Indian elephant,

nego što je afrički s indijskim slonom,

as Jared Diamond pointed out in one of his early books.

kao što nam je Jared Diamond skrenuo pažnju u jednoj od svojih ranih knjiga.

We're more closely related to chimps and bonobos

U bližem smo srodstvu sa čimpanzom i bonobom

than chimps and bonobos are related

nego što su čimpanza i bonobo

to any other primate --

srodni bilo kojem drugom primatu --

gorillas, orangutans, what have you.

gorilama, orangutanima, kojima god.

So we're extremely closely related to them,

Dakle, izuzetno smo im bliski,

and as you'll see in terms of our behavior,

a vidjet ćete iz našeg ponašanja,

we've got some relationship as well.

da i tu postoji nekakva veza.

So what I'm asking today, the question

Ono što pitam danas, pitanje

I want to explore with you today is,

koje danas želim istražiti s vama je

what kind of ape are we in terms of our sexuality?

koja vrsta majmuna smo mi, u smislu naše seksualnosti?

Now, since Darwin's day there's been

Od Darwinovih dana imamo ono

what Cacilda and I have called

što Cacilda i ja nazivamo

the standard narrative of human sexual evolution,

standardni narativ ljudske seksualne evolucije,

and you're all familiar with it,

i svi ste s njim upoznati,

even if you haven't read this stuff.

čak i ako niste čitali o tome.

The idea is that, as part of human nature,

Ideja je da su, od nastanka naše vrste,

from the beginning of our species' time,

u skladu s ljudskom naravi,

men have sort of leased women's reproductive potential

muškarci posuđivali ženski reproduktivni potencijal

by providing them with certain goods and services.

osiguravajući im zauzvrat određena dobra i usluge.

Generally we're talking about meat, shelter, status,

Govorimo o mesu, skloništu, statusu,

protection, things like that.

zaštiti, takvim stvarima.

And in exchange, women have offered fidelity,

Zauzvrat, žene pružaju vjernost,

or at least a promise of fidelity.

ili barem obećanje vjernosti.

Now this sets men and women up in an oppositional relationship.

Zbog toga se muškarci i žene nalaze u opozicijskom odnosu.

The war between the sexes is built right into our DNA, according to this vision. Right?

Rat između spolova je ugrađen izravno u našu DNK, prema toj viziji. Dobro?

What Cacilda and I have argued is that no,

Cacilda i ja smo iznijeli drugačije argumente,

this economic relationship,

da je taj ekonomski odnos,

this oppositional relationship,

taj opozicijski odnos,

is actually an artifact of agriculture,

zapravo posljedica poljoprivrede,

which only arose about 10,000 years ago at the earliest.

koja se pojavila tek negdje prije 10.000 godina, najranije.

Anatomically modern human beings

Anatomski moderni ljudi

have been around for about 200,000 years,

postoje nekih 200.000 godina,

so we're talking about five percent, at most,

što znači da govorimo o najviše pet posto

of our time as a modern, distinct species.

našeg vremena u kojemu smo moderna, zasebna vrsta.

So before agriculture,

Prije poljoprivrede,

before the agricultural revolution,

prije poljoprivredne revolucije,

it's important to understand that human beings

važno je shvatiti da su ljudi

lived in hunter-gatherer groups that are

živjeli u lovačko-sakupljačkim skupinama

characterized wherever they're found in the world

koje, svuda u svijetu gdje su otkrivene, karakterizira

by what anthropologists called fierce egalitarianism.

ono što antropolozi zovu žestoki egalitarizam.

They not only share things,

Oni ne samo da dijele stvari,

they demand that things be shared:

oni zahtijevaju da se stvari dijele:

meat, shelter, protection, all these things

meso, zaklon, zaštita, sve ono

that were supposedly being traded to women

što muškarci navodno dijele sa ženama

for their sexual fidelity, it turns out,

za njihovu seksualnu vjernost,

are shared widely among these societies.

ispada da se dijeli široko između tih društava.

Now I'm not saying that our ancestors

Ne govorim da su naši predci

were noble savages, and I'm not saying

bili plemeniti divljaci, i ne govorim

modern day hunter-gatherers are noble savages either.

ni da su suvremeni lovci-sakupljači također plemeniti divljaci.

What I'm saying is that this is simply

Kažem naprosto da je to

the best way to mitigate risk

najbolji način za smanjenje rizika

in a foraging context.

u kontekstu skupljačkog okružja.

And there's really no argument about this among anthropologists.

Među antropolozima zapravo nema spora o tome.

All Cacilda and I have done is extend this sharing behavior to sexuality.

Cacilda i ja smo samo proširili ideju dijeljenja na seksualnost.

So we've argued that human sexuality

Naš je argument da je ljudska seksualnost

has essentially evolved, until agriculture,

u biti evoluirala, sve do pojave poljoprivrede,

as a way of establishing and maintaining

kao sredstvo utvrđivanja i održavanja

the complex, flexible social systems, networks,

kompleksnih, fleksibilnih socijalnih sustava, mreža,

that our ancestors were very good at,

u čemu su naši preci bili vrlo dobri,

and that's why our species has survived so well.

i da je to razlog zašto naša vrsta tako uspješno opstaje.

Now, this makes some people uncomfortable,

Ova ideja je nekima nelagodna,

and so I always need to take a moment in these talks

pa u ovakvim govorima uvijek zastanem

to say, listen,

i kažem, čujte,

I'm saying our ancestors were promiscuous,

Velim da su nam preci bili promiskuitetni,

but I'm not saying they were having sex with strangers.

ali ne govorim da su imali seksualne odnose sa strancima.

There were no strangers. Right?

Nije bilo stranaca. Dobro?

In a hunter-gatherer band, there are no strangers.

U lovačko-skupljačkoj skupini nema stranaca.

You've known these people your entire life.

Te ljude znate cijeli svoj život.

So I'm saying, yes, there were overlapping sexual relationships,

Zato kažem, da, seksualni odnosi su se miješali,

that our ancestors probably had several different sexual relationships

naši su preci vjerojatno imali nekoliko različitih spolnih odnosa

going on at any given moment in their adult lives.

koji su se odvijali tijekom njihovih odraslih života.

But I'm not saying they were having sex with strangers.

Ali ne kažem da su imali odnose sa strancima.

I'm not saying that they didn't love the people they were having sex with.

Ne kažem da nisu voljeli ljude s kojima su imali odnose.

And I'm not saying there was no pair-bonding going on.

I ne kažem da nije dolazilo do bliskosti između parova.

I'm just saying it wasn't sexually exclusive.

Kažem samo da nisu bili spolno orijentirani na jednu osobu.

And those of us who have chosen to be monogamous --

Oni među nama koji su odabrali biti monogamni --

my parents, for example, have been married

moji roditelji, na primjer, u monogamnom

for 52 years monogamously,

braku su već 52 godine,

and if it wasn't monogamously, Mom and Dad,

a ako nije bio monogaman, mama i tata,

I don't want to hear about it—

ne želim znati za to —

I'm not criticizing this and I'm not saying

Ne kritiziram to i ne kažem

there's anything wrong with this.

da tu ima ičega lošeg.

What I'm saying is that to argue

Moj argument

that our ancestors were sexual omnivores

da su nam preci bili seksualni svežderi

is no more a criticism of monogamy

nije kritika monogamije ništa više

than to argue that our ancestors were dietary omnivores

nego što bi argument da su bili svežderi u pogledu hrane

is a criticism of vegetarianism.

bila kritika vegetarijanstva.

You can choose to be a vegetarian,

Možete odabrati vegetarijanstvo,

but don't think that just because you've made that decision,

ali nemojte misliti da čim ste donijeli tu odluku,

bacon suddenly stops smelling good.

slanina odmah prestaje dobro mirišati.

Okay? So this is my point.

Dobro? Dakle, ovo je moja poanta.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

That one took a minute to sink in, huh?

Za tu vam je trebalo malo vremena, ha?

Now, in addition to being a great genius,

Osim što je bio veliki genij,

a wonderful man, a wonderful husband,

divan čovjek, divan suprug,

a wonderful father, Charles Darwin

divan otac, Charles Darwin

was also a world-class Victorian prude.

bio je usto i prvoklasni viktorijanski moralist.

All right? He was perplexed

Dobro? Zbunjivale su ga

by the sexual swellings of certain primates,

seksualne otekline kod određenih primata,

including chimps and bonobos,

uključujući čimpanze i bonobe,

because these sexual swellings tend to provoke

jer su te otekline poticale mnoge mužjake

many males to mate with the females.

da se pare sa ženkama.

So he couldn't understand why on Earth would the female have developed this thing

On nikako nije mogao razumjeti zašto bi se kod ženki razvilo to svojstvo

if all they were supposed to be doing is forming their pair bond, right?

ako im je bilo potrebno jedino izgraditi odnos sa svojim parom?

Chimps and bonobos, Darwin didn't really know this,

Čimpanze i bonobe, što Darwin nije znao,

but chimps and bonobos mate

čimpanze i bonobe se pare

one to four times per hour

do četiri puta po satu,

with up to a dozen males per day

s po tuce mužjaka dnevno

when they have their sexual swellings.

kada dobiju seksualne otekline.

Interestingly, chimps have sexual swellings

Zanimljivo, čimpanze imaju te otekline

through 40 percent, roughly,

tijekom, ugrubo, 40 posto vremena

of their menstrual cycle,

svojeg menstrualnog ciklusa,

bonobos 90 percent,

bonobe tijekom 90 posto,

and humans are among the only species on the planet

a ljudi su među jedinim vrstama na planetu

where the female is available for sex

kod kojih je ženka na raspolaganju za parenje

throughout the menstrual cycle,

tijekom čitavog menstrualnog ciklusa,

whether she's menstruating, whether she's post-menopausal,

tijekom menstruacije, nakon menopauze,

whether she's already pregnant.

pa i kad je već trudna.

This is vanishingly rare among mammals.

To je sve rjeđe među sisavcima.

So it's a very interesting aspect of human sexuality.

To je vrlo zanimljiv aspekt ljudske seksualnosti.

Now, Darwin ignored the reflections

Darwin je u svoje doba ignorirao

of the sexual swelling in his own day,

pitanje seksualnih oteklina,

as scientists tend to do sometimes.

čemu su znanstvenici katkada skloni.

So what we're talking about is sperm competition.

Ono o čemu govorimo je konkurencija među spermijima.

Now the average human ejaculate has about 300 million sperm cells,

Ejakulat prosječnog čovjeka sadrži oko 300 milijuna stanica spermija,

so it's already a competitive environment.

pa je to već konkurentno okružje.

The question is whether these sperm are competing against other men's sperm

Pitanje je natječu li se ti spermiji sa spermijima drugih muškaraca

or just their own.

ili samo sa svojim vlastitima.

There's a lot to talk about in this chart.

O ovom prikazu se može puno pričati.

The one thing I'll call your attention to right away

Odmah ću vam skrenuti pažnju

is the little musical note above the female chimp and bonobo and human.

na malu glazbenu notu iznad ženki čimpanze, bonobe i žene.

That indicates female copulatory vocalization.

Ona označava žensku snošajnu vokalizaciju.

Just look at the numbers.

Pogledajte brojeve.

The average human has sex

Prosječan čovjek

about 1,000 times per birth.

ima otprilike 1000 seksualnih odnosa po jednom rođenju.

If that number seems high for some of you,

Ako neki od vas misle da je taj broj prevelik,

I assure you it seems low for others in the room.

uvjeravam vas da neki drugi ovdje misle da je prenizak.

We share that ratio with chimps and bonobos.

Takav razmjer dijelimo sa čimpanzama i bonobama.

We don't share it with the other three apes,

Ne dijelimo ga s tri druge vrste majmuna,

the gorilla, the orangutan and the gibbon,

gorilama, orangutanima i gibonima,

who are more typical of mammals,

koji su tipičniji sisavci,

having sex only about a dozen times per birth.

s nekih tuce seksualnih odnosa po jednom rođenju.

Humans and bonobos are the only animals that have sex face-to-face

Ljudi i bonobe su jedine životinje koje se gledaju prilikom odnosa

when both of them are alive.

kad su oboje živi.

(Laughter)

(Smijeh)

And you'll see that the human, chimp and bonobo

Vidjet ćete da ljudi, čimpanze i bonobe

all have external testicles, which in our book

imaju vanjske testise, što je po nama

we equate to a special fridge you have in the garage

isto što i poseban hladnjak koji držite u garaži

just for beer.

samo za pivo.

If you're the kind of guy who has a beer fridge

Ako ste tip koji ima pivski hladnjak u garaži

in the garage, you expect a party to happen

očekujete da vas svaki tren

at any moment, and you need to be ready.

može snaći zabava, i morate biti spremni.

That's what the external testicles are.

To su vam vanjski testisi.

They keep the sperm cells cool

Oni hlade stanice spermija

so you can have frequent ejaculations.

kako biste mogli imati česte ejakulacije.

I'm sorry. It's true.

Žao mi je. To je istina.

The human, some of you will be happy to hear,

Čovjek, neki od vas će biti sretni to čuti,

has the largest, thickest penis of any primate.

ima najveći, najdeblji penis među primatima.

Now, this evidence goes way beyond anatomy.

Dokazi za ovo nisu samo anatomski.

It goes into anthropology as well.

Protežu se i u antropologiju.

Historical records are full of accounts of people

Povijesni podaci su puni zapisa o ljudima

around the world who have sexual practices

širom svijeta čija bi seksualna aktivnost

that should be impossible

trebala biti nemoguća,

given what we have assumed about human sexual evolution.

s obzirom na naše pretpostavke o ljudskoj seksualnoj evoluciji.

These women are the Mosuo from southwestern China.

Ovo su Mosuo žene iz jugozapadne Kine.

In their society, everyone, men and women,

U njihovom društvu su svi, muškarci i žene,

are completely sexually autonomous.

seksualno potpuno autonomni.

There's no shame associated with sexual behavior.

Ne postoji sram povezan sa seksualnim ponašanjem.

Women have hundreds of partners.

Žene imaju stotine partnera.

It doesn't matter. Nobody cares. Nobody gossips. It's not an issue.

Nije važno. Nikoga nije briga. Nitko ne ogovara. To ne postoji kao tema.

When the woman becomes pregnant,

Kad žena zatrudni,

the child is cared for by her, her sisters, and her brothers.

za dijete se brinu ona, njene sestre i njena braća.

The biological father is a nonissue.

Biološki otac je nebitan.

On the other side of the planet, in the Amazon,

Na drugoj strani planeta, u Amazoni,

we've got many tribes which practice

postoje mnoga plemena koja prakticiraju

what anthropologists call partible paternity.

ono što antropolozi zovu mješovito očinstvo.

These people actually believe --

Ti ljudi vjeruju --

and they have no contact among them,

a nemaju kontakta među sobom,

no common language or anything,

nema zajedničkog jezika ili nečega sličnoga,

so it's not an idea that spread,

što znači da to nije ideja koja se proširila,

it's an idea that's arisen around the world --

to je ideja koja je nastala širom svijeta --

they believe that a fetus is literally made

oni vjeruju doslovno da fetus nastaje

of accumulated semen.

od akumulirane sperme.

So a woman who wants to have a child

Pa žena koja želi dijete

who's smart and funny and strong

koje će biti pametno i zabavno i snažno

makes sure she has lots of sex with the smart guy,

upražnjava mnogo seksa s pametnim tipom,

the funny guy and the strong guy,

zabavnim tipom i snažnim tipom,

to get the essence of each of these men into the baby,

kako bi se suština svakog od tih muškaraca našla u bebi,

and then when the child is born,

a kada se dijete rodi,

these different men will come forward

ti različiti muškarci istupaju

and acknowledge their paternity of the child.

i priznaju očinstvo nad djetetom.

So paternity is actually sort of a team endeavor

Očinstvo je neka vrsta timskog nastojanja,

in this society.

u njihovom društvu.

So there are all sorts of examples like this

Puno je sličnih primjera

that we go through in the book.

koje obrađujemo u knjizi.

Now, why does this matter?

No, zašto je to važno?

Edward Wilson says we need to understand

Edward Wilson kaže da moramo razumjeti

that human sexuality is first a bonding device

da je ljudska seksualnost prvo sredstvo povezivanja,

and only secondarily procreation.

a tek potom razmnožavanja.

I think that's true. This matters because

Mislim da je to točno. Važno je zato

our evolved sexuality is in direct conflict

što je naša evoluirana seksualnost u izravnom sukobu

with many aspects of the modern world.

s mnogim aspektima suvremenog svijeta.

The contradictions between what we're told

Razlike između onoga što nam tvrde

we should feel and what we actually do feel

da bismo trebali osjećati i onoga što zapravo osjećamo

generates a huge amount of unnecessary suffering.

proizvode ogromnu nepotrebnu patnju.

My hope is that a more accurate,

Nadam se da će točnije,

updated understanding of human sexuality

ažurnije razumijevanje ljudske seksualnosti

will lead us to have greater tolerance for ourselves,

dovesti do veće tolerancije prema nama samima,

for each other,

jednih prema drugima,

greater respect for unconventional relationship configurations

do većeg poštovanja prema nekonvencionalnim vezama

like same-sex marriage or polyamorous unions,

poput istospolnih ili poligamnih zajednica,

and that we'll finally put to rest the idea

i da ćemo napokon napustiti ideju

that men have some innate, instinctive right

da muškarci imaju nekakvo urođeno, instinktivno pravo

to monitor and control women's sexual behavior.

nadzirati i kontrolirati spolno ponašanje žena.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

And we'll see that it's not only gay people

Otkrit ćemo da nisu samo homoseksualci

that have to come out of the closet.

ti koji moraju izići iz ormara.

We all have closets we have to come out of. Right?

Svi mi imamo ormare iz kojih trebamo izaći, zar ne?

And when we do come out of those closets,

A kada to učinimo,

we'll recognize that our fight is not with each other,

otkrit ćemo da nismo u sukobu sa sobom,

our fight is with an outdated, Victorian sense of human sexuality

već sa zasterjelim, viktorijanskim poimanjem ljudske seksualnosti

that conflates desire with property rights,

koje miješa želju s pravom vlasništva,

generates shame and confusion

stvara sram i zbunjenost

in place of understanding and empathy.

umjesto razumijevanja i empatije.

It's time we moved beyond Mars and Venus,

Vrijeme je da se odmaknemo od Marsa i Venere,

because the truth is

jer je istina

that men are from Africa

da su muškarci iz Afrike,

and women are from Africa.

i žene su iz Afrike.

Thank you.

Hvala vam.

(Applause)

(Pljesak)

Chris Anderson: Thank you. Christopher Ryan: Thank you.

Chris Anderson: Hvala vam. Christopher Ryan: Hvala vam.

CA: So a question.

CA: Jedno pitanje.

It's so perplexing, trying to use arguments

Zbunjujuće je argumente

about evolutionary history

koji se odnose na evolucijsku povijest

to turn that into what we ought to do today.

primjenjivati na ono što bismo danas trebali činiti.

Someone could give a talk and say,

Netko može održati govor i reći,

look at us, we've got these really sharp teeth

gledajte nas, imamo ove oštre zube

and muscles and a brain that's really good

i mišiće i mozak koji su stvarno dobri

at throwing weapons,

za upotrebu oružja,

and if you look at lots of societies around the world,

i ako promotrite mnoga društva širom svijeta,

you'll see very high rates of violence.

otkrit ćete visoke stope nasilja.

Nonviolence is a choice like vegetarianism,

Nenasilje je izbor poput vegetarijanstva,

but it's not who you are.

ali to niste vi.

How is that different

Na koji način je takav argument

from the talk you gave?

drugačiji od vašeg govora?

CR: Well first of all, the evidence

CR: Kao prvo, dokazi

for high levels of violence in prehistory

za veliko nasilje u pretpovijesti

is very debatable.

su vrlo diskutabilni.

But that's just an example.

Ali to je samo primjer.

Certainly, you know, lots of people say to me,

Sigurno, znate, mnogi su mi rekli

just because we lived a certain way in the past

da samo zato što smo u prošlosti živjeli na određeni način

doesn't mean we should live that way now, and I agree with that.

ne znači da tako moramo živjeti danas, i slažem se s time.

Everyone has to respond to the modern world.

Svatko mora dati svoj odgovor na suvremeni svijet.

But the body does have its inherent

Ali tijelo ima svoje ugrađene

evolved trajectories.

evolucijske putanje.

And so you could live on McDonald's and milkshakes,

Vi možete živjeti na hamburgerima i šejkovima iz McDonald'sa,

but your body will rebel against that. We have appetites.

ali tijelo će vam se pobuniti. Imamo svoje apetite.

I think it was Schopenhauer who said,

Mislim da je Schopenhauer rekao

a person can do what they want

da čovjek može činiti što želi,

but not want what they want.

ali ne može željeti ono što želi.

And so what I'm arguing against

Tako da moj argument ide protiv

is the shame that's associated with desires.

srama koji je povezan s našim željama.

It's the idea that if you love your husband or wife

Protiv ideje da ako volite svoga muža ili ženu

but you still are attracted to other people,

ali vas i dalje privlače drugi,

there's something wrong with you,

da s vama nešto nije u redu,

there's something wrong with your marriage,

da nešto nije u redu s vašim brakom,

something wrong with your partner.

s vašim partnerom.

I think a lot of families are fractured

Mislim da su mnoge obitelji nagrižene

by unrealistic expectations

nerealnim očekivanjima

that are based upon this false vision of human sexuality.

koja se temelje na pogrešnom pogledu na ljudsku seksualnost.

That's what I'm trying to get at.

To vam pokušavam reći.

CA: Thank you. Communicated powerfully. Thanks a lot.

CA: Hvala. Snažna argumentacija. Mnogo hvala.

CR: Thank you, Chris. (Applause)

CR: Hvala, Chris. (Pljesak)